NMCKE
NMCKE
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- NMCKE
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@[Deleted User] said:
Not yet, but I feel like the game right now is like the Titanic right before it barrels into the iceberg, the impact being if the change makes it live the way it currently is.
Ruin can't be changed/nerfed yet. Fix the bad map design first which is the single biggest reason why killers have such a hard time in this game, then we can talk about changing/nerfing the perk.
That's probably because we are getting second objectives soon. 😁
I predicted Dedicated Servers 2 years ago, on December, and was 100% spot on.
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You mean this:
NMCKE playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.comYeah, I definitely feel like survivor spawns can be better because literally the entire team spawned here! 😕
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@silverwolf4455 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/973065#Comment_973065
Dont say that cause console you cant hit skillchecks. Pretty sure I have always played console and have no problem with them. Practice and git good is what I say to survivors who cant hit them.
You see countless people say the FPS is terrible on console, and people continue to beg for optimization updates — I don't think I'm the only one who thinks hitting greats on console is difficult due to FPS.
When I had just the typical XB1, skill checks were really choppy, but now that I have an XB1 X, skill checks are easier to hit.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/973428#Comment_973428
Cool, but why killers that need it the most suffer the most? Ruin was most important for killers that need set up, but used by all because of free slow down. Now its usefull for everyone except killers that need time to set up very early in the game
Your comment didn't post, but I was able to recover what you said:
It depends, I see a lot of content creators such as otz use Corrupt Intervention to its best potential. 😁🤗
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/973428#Comment_973428
Cool, but why killers that need it the most suffer the most? Ruin was most important for killers that need set up, but used by all because of free slow down. Now its usefull for everyone except killers that need time to set up very early in the game
That's when you use Corrupt Intervention, it's better for killers that need to setup during the early game :P
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Ruin automatically damage generators that aren't being worked on. :P
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@th3beardedbaron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/973065#Comment_973065
I feel as though you don't actually play the game. Why on earth would a P3 killer be facing off with a new player in the first place? Think about it, there are only 2 reasons. 1: swf with a high rank (purple or red) buddy 2: the killer hasn't played in so long that they've depiped to get those new players. BHVR screwed up matchmaking when they decided not to take the average of ranks anymore and instead used the highest ranked person in the swf to match on. that's not the killer's fault for getting a new player, it's the survivor. This game has been out for 3 years now and ruin has been there the majority of the time. 3 years, survivors have dealt with ruin and played through it. If this was an issue, it would have been an issue when they changed ruin a few months ago from affecting different amounts of people depending on the level to affecting everyone.
This isn't about "new" players, this is the developers not listening to the community as a whole and they'll be left wondering what happened to everyone in about 2 months time. I'm a software developer irl and I can say I've never seen a game or company deploy code as sloppy as BHVR. I've seen countless games and companies roll back a new deployment because of a bug in the code. Does BHVR? nope, keep it in the game for a few months it'll be fine. Matchmaking is so bad, should we fix it? Nope, just remove ranks so they don't see how messed up it is.
Seriously, without LITERALLY any reason to rank up now, what's keeping a P3 killer from just depiping up to rank 20 and slaughtering every new player that starts up the game? the answer is nothing.
This isn't just about ruin, this is about all the neglect this game has received over the years. I GUARANTEE you that if the ruin nerf goes live it'll kill the game.
I mean, BHVR isn't acting randomly, I think they nerfed Ruin to prepare for a future change. However, since you are a game designer and feel you could be a great asset to the BHVR team, you can find job opportunities at BHVR here:
Join the Behaviour team and make the games you'd want to play. Discover our perks and benefits. Get tips from our recruiters. Search open positions.About Ruin
I just said that I agree with BHVR because most of the community is acting like you need Ruin to win when in reality, that's definitely not the case — I'm a red rank killer, I main Nurse and Pig. I don't use Ruin because it makes me adapt and become a better player.
Another thing is the PTB hasn't came out yet, can we at least wait to test out their product instead of assuming the worst? It could look a lot better in practice rather than on paper. 😁🤗
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@Mc_Harty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/973120#Comment_973120
I never said people can't play without Ruin. Of course they can. Hell, I did with old Freddy.
Doesn't change the fact that for 80% of killers, Ruin was a necessary band-aid for poor decisions related to the garbage maps, killer powers, or the over-simplicity of the survivors generators.
I know, but a lot of people are acting like the game is unplayable when it's still playable, you just have to play with more caution. 😁
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@Mc_Harty said:
You made Ruin easier for new survivors but failed to understand why it was meta in the first place.
That's what most of these posters are angry about. Not Ruin being nerfed, but you guys refusal to admit the core game is flawed.
I have to agree to this, but I want to throw in something since people are acting like they can't play without Ruin:
It's definitely possible to do just as well as a killer who doesn't use Ruin, if Ruin gets nerfed and suddenly you can't get any great games, that's likely because sadly, the perk was carrying you. I'm currently a red rank killer, main Nurse and Pig — Never have too much of a problem with generators, but admittedly, it's more punishing when you make a mistake. At the end, that is what made me better than a killer who doesn't use Ruin.
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First, I want everyone in this thread to pretend that I'm not a Trusted Member because regardless if I was or not, that doesn't change my opinion one bit.
Now, with that said, I have to agree with @MandyTalk on a post she made, it was well said and explained exactly how I feel about these types of topics:
While I can agree the developers aren't perfect, you can't assume they want $$$ just because they decide to nerf killers. As Mandy said, the developers do a lot for both sides, it's not a "Developers like survivors", "Developers like killers", or "Developers like money" type a situation at all. It's more of, "The developers are thinking about the players" type of situation when they changed Ruin because let's be honest, who would want to face a P3 Killer with the best perks as a new player? Even as a console player where FPS is terrible, you couldn't hit greats even if you wanted to, which lead to Ruin being twice as strong on console.
I know, it sounds like I'm rambling on about how much I support the developers choice in nerfing Ruin, but I'll give a conspiracy theory:
- Previous Roadmap: New Mechanic — The End Game Collapse.
- Current Roadmap: New Mechanic — Second Objective?
I don't think the developers would make such a choice without planning to solve the consequences, especially when 80% uses Ruin (that obviously shows a problem). 😁🤗
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@pandorayr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/969476#Comment_969476
maybe u dont play m1 killers
I play Nurse and Pig. 😁
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/968841#Comment_968841
Are the devs looking at why Ruin was so popular and why so many people feel it was "required"?
They are adjusting the emblem scoring but that had very little to do with why most people ran Ruin. Many people feel it was a bandaid fix for gen times.
That's probably because there's a second objective coming very soon!
Last roadmap we got the EGC, so we might get a second objective! 😁
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/969434#Comment_969434
It could be strong late game but hex totems usually don't last that long. You will get very little benefit from it at the beginning and it will probably be cleansed by the time you would actually start to benefit from it.
I'm not saying this change is perfect, but I do believe this perk needs to have a Haunted Grounds effect when cleansed since survivors can go the entire game without seeing the effects of Ruin. 😁
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@pandorayr said:
another nerf for the killers.
I never used Ruin and learned to play without it, so it's a nerf to the players who depended on the perk, not killers. 👉👉
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Well, it doesn't look that bad to me because of a few things:
- Regression occurs at a flat rate of 1 charge over a duration of 4 seconds. With Ruin, this now happens
immediatelyinstead ofwhen you kick a generator, and regression now occurs at a flat rate of 1 charge over a duration of 2 seconds. - Survivors can't tap generators during a chase.
Doing the mathematics, if a generator is at 90% and you happened to catch a survivor and chase them off.
At that time, the survivor has 72 charges on that generator. With Ruin, assuming no other survivor touches that generator, it will take 144 seconds for that generator to regress back down to 0 charges. Without Ruin, it would have taken 288 seconds, plus as a bonus, you would've needed to kick the generator to start regression.
- Regression occurs at a flat rate of 1 charge over a duration of 4 seconds. With Ruin, this now happens
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967987#Comment_967987
If you honestly think your only option in the EGC is to run at a gate and hold it 0-100, instead of observing the killer, playing smart, and 20%ing the gate before going all in then I'm not really going to take your opinion on EGC gates seriously.
NMCKE playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.comIt depends where the Exit Gates are at.
In this situation, the prepping strategy is the best option, but if they were too close for my liking, then the rush strategy would be the best option.
Edit: Here's another one to prove I know how to give myself a great chance during the EGC.
NMCKE playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.com -
@DwightOP said:
Cool statistics, BUT: your rules aren't realistic. In reality the killer WILL use his power for speed, or Trapper to trap the gate etc and well everyone is using perks.
I would like to see this experiment down again but without these rules.
Maybe once where u can use perks which aren't directly helping with the gates (wake up for example) and another time with perks which are helping I'm EGC (spine chill, resilience, wake up, whispers etc) and the best would be with a killer like spirit, nurse, Billy with high mobility.
I think the EGC survival rate with just the perk whispers is 0%
I think the EGC survival rate with just the perk whispers is 0%
Bingo, even when the Exit Gates spawn across the map, I know which Exit Gate the survivor is committing towards. 😁🤗
I use Whispers on my Pig and I never had a survivor escape during the EGC.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967866#Comment_967866
6/10 times is an obscenely high amount. I haven't seen gates spawn on the same wall this week. It's a low sample size which makes it very open to error.
And now, there's another thing, you rushed the gate and hoped. That's incredibly poor strategy and you still managed to escape 16% of the time just based on luck of which one the killer picked AND that they're far enough apart. You're suggesting balance changes around the results of playing with absolutely no strategy and just relying on luck. Including actually waiting for a killer to check a gate then opening it, let alone being able to do 20% of the gate stealthily first are both strategies that immensely raise your odds of survival.
The hatch prioritising killers is also a negligible factor, as dedicated servers are definitely coming to all platforms sooner or later, and removing the killer as host makes it luck whether the hatch shuts or the survivor escapes.
You say the killer can roam freely, but that's a very narrow viewpoint. If the killer has the time to scour the map for the hatch, it only happens because 2 survivors are both doing nothing and waiting for the other to die. (Let's not even get into the fact that playing like that isn't worthy of an escape) Either one touching a gen puts pressure on where the killer has to do something. When a killer still has to patrol gens, and gets occupied chasing people, it's the survivors that are more free to move around because they turn their attention to the hatch as their 'objective' so no longer have specific points on the map they have to go to. They also dictate the chases so can actively avoid taking the killer to the hatch.
6/10 times is an obscenely high amount. I haven't seen gates spawn on the same wall this week. It's a low sample size which makes it very open to error.
That's true, it could because of sample size, but I do plan on getting more games in to be more consistent!
And now, there's another thing, you rushed the gate and hoped. That's incredibly poor strategy and you still managed to escape 16% of the time just based on luck of which one the killer picked AND that they're far enough apart. You're suggesting balance changes around the results of playing with absolutely no strategy and just relying on luck. Including actually waiting for a killer to check a gate then opening it, let alone being able to do 20% of the gate stealthily first are both strategies that immensely raise your odds of survival.
I rushed because that's my only option left as the survivor, and even then, it only works when two things happen:
- Hatch spawns far away from both Exit Gates.
- Killer picks the wrong Exit Gate to defend first.
The reason why I'm suggesting balance over something luck based is because I want the EGC to make room for skill.
As a survivor, I want to see how well I prepared the Exit Gates, I want to see if I did the timing right, and I wanna see if I managed the EGC time well enough. That's all really difficult to do depending on who the killer is, their perks, the survivor's perks, and the survivor's situation before hand.
The hatch prioritising killers is also a negligible factor, as dedicated servers are definitely coming to all platforms sooner or later, and removing the killer as host makes it luck whether the hatch shuts or the survivor escapes.
True, but that's still luck, not, "Who finds it first, gets it," like many players want the hatch to be. That's why I want the hatch to not spawn in when there are generators remaining — it should only spawn in when there's one survivor left or when all generators are completed.
You say the killer can roam freely, but that's a very narrow viewpoint. If the killer has the time to scour the map for the hatch, it only happens because 2 survivors are both doing nothing and waiting for the other to die. (Let's not even get into the fact that playing like that isn't worthy of an escape) Either one touching a gen puts pressure on where the killer has to do something. When a killer still has to patrol gens, and gets occupied chasing people, it's the survivors that are more free to move around because they turn their attention to the hatch as their 'objective' so no longer have specific points on the map they have to go to. They also dictate the chases so can actively avoid taking the killer to the hatch.
I never hide for the hatch, I just want the killer to take their sacrifice instead of playing "hide and go seek world championship edition". However, when I point at a hook or work on a generator, they simply slug me, so I just watch YouTube videos while I wait 4 minutes to bleed-out.
Another thing about the hatch, it spawns in, assuming it's a 2 v 1, when 3 generators are completed. The killer knows two survivors won't be able to complete 2 generators because they simply don't have enough time to do so without the killer knowing. Therefore, killers will just find the hatch, find a survivor, hook them, use the sacrifice animation to reach the hatch, and that's it. Survivor had no choice there but to accept they had no chance to get the hatch.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967758#Comment_967758
And your suggestion simply doesn't fix anything.
Gates rarely spawn on the same wall, let's not pretend that's a common occurrence. Yes, they spawn with vantage points, that's a fact of the nature of a game with pseudo-random maps made of distinctly separate tiles. Tucking the actual switch away doesn't stop those vantage points existing, especially not with your suggestion of ALWAYS being on the same wall.
Gates are fine as they are, sometimes one side is favoured, sometimes the other side is, and at the moment it's overall weighted towards the side it SHOULD be weighted towards.
Gates do spawn on the same wall 6/10 times, I played as the killer and survivor in my experiment to know that fact. In fact, every time I play a survivor game (not experiment), I check where the Exit Gates are at to see if I should rush or take my time prepping the escape.
The other 3/10 times they have a vantage point.
The other 1/10 times they were either balanced, killer had the advantage but it was very difficult timing or it was completely survivor sided.
Now, I feel like I would be dishonest if I didn't tell you that I did escape when the Exit Gates where on the same wall. That's because I rushed the Exit Gates and hoped the killer picked the wrong one to defend.
All I'm saying is if we had a setup that balanced everything around 25%, things would be fine. I know 25% seems high, but the survivor can't always get the hatch, even if they find it first.
Just look in this picture and focus on the HUD:
Notice the 2nd survivor just got sacrificed and the killer closed the hatch immediately. If I was already at the hatch, found it first, I still wouldn't get it because the killer has priority over the survivor.
Now, let's say we both didn't know where the hatch is at, well the killer can roam more freely than the survivor because the killer doesn't have to worry about getting seen unlike the survivor.
That's why I want a 50%/25%/25%.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965933#Comment_965933
Ok I legitimately cannot follow your line of thinking here.
Your whole thread is about the fact that it's not fair that RNG gate positions determine how difficult the end game is for a solo survivor, so your solution is "Make it RNG as to whether the gates spawn close enough to guarantee you die or not."
We all play the game here, we know it's just as likely that the gates spawn on the same wall, or they spawn at the exact opposite ends of the map from each other. That's the same RNG deciding whether it's "favourable" or not.
And to reiterate, your data comes from 37 trials, and you're only 9% off what your 'goal' was. That's 3 matches either way. It would take hundreds of trials, before even considering other factors (including different ranks, the existence of perks and items that make escaping through the hatch easier or still an option once it's shut) to get anything resembling data that you can draw reasonable conclusions from.
The whole system of exit gates is not perfect, but it's still better and fairer than your suggestion is.
The only time a gate will spawn on opposite walls are the indoor maps, the rest of the maps typically spawn on the same wall or have a vantage point to both gates. It's extremely rare or impossible that an Exit Gate would spawn on opposite walls in maps that aren't indoor.
Therefore, since outdoor maps and indoor maps are either a "They get out" or "They die", why not make every map a "It's possible to escape, but it's going to be very difficult"
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. 😁
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Firstly, I want to commend you for reading my post and seeing where I'm coming from, it's really difficult to have a conversation in these types of subjects. 😁
Here's how my system would work, it's really simple and to the point. The reason why your idea won't work is because you can't always remove every vantage point with line of sight blockers — you have to completely surround the Exit Gates to do that!
That's why I made this since there's no way the killer can stand at one point and keep both Exit Gates in view:
Then, you can tweak the distance based of a calculator. The calculator will decide whether or not the survivor gets favorable gate spawn (25% chance) or not.
Here's a quote where I explained this more clearly:
That's why we have a calculator that determines whether or not the survivor gets a chance to escape, assuming they do everything correctly. The calculator will roll the dice and see if they get a favorable gate spawn or not.
There's a 25% chance the survivor will get a favorable spawn and a 75% chance they won't get a favorable spawn.
Favorable spawns will be around 8 seconds apart.
Not favorable spawns will be around 5 seconds apart.
Now, you may ask, "Well if the survivor gets the 25% chance... Does that mean I automatically lose?"
To answer that question: Absolutely not!
Here's what the survivor has to do after they get the 25% chance in order to have a chance to escape:
@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966260#Comment_966260
Okay, let's assume the survivor gets lucky (they got the 25% chance) and got ideal gate spawns with my setup.
They will have to do the following to get their chance to survive:
- Cannot be injured (Killer will hear you waiting at the Exit Gates, but this is countered by Iron Will)
- If the killer is: Trapper, Billy, Freddy (Dream Snares), Demogorgon, Ghostface (Countered by Spine Chill), Wraith (Countered by Spine Chill), Hag (Partially countered by Urban Evasion), Plague, Clown (Partially countered by Calm Spirit), or Doctor (Partially countered by Calm Spirit)... Then you are dead.
- If the killer is running: Whispers or Remember Me (If you're the Obsession)... Then you are dead.
- Make your way to an Exit Gate undetected and with close proximity to the Exit Gate switches, must do this before 50% of the EGC expires.
- Wait for the killer to leave your Exit Gate, then prime the Exit Gates by progressing it just before the first light. After doing this, go back into hiding and wait for the killer start a new rotation.
- Once the killer leaves again, commit to opening the Exit Gates. If the EGC timer is flashing before you committed to opening the Exit Gates, you were too slow with preparation — you're dead.
That's what it takes for the survivor, with decent Exit Gate spawns, to escape during the EGC by themselves.
Feel free to correct me on the quote above, I'm willing to discuss this with you! 😁🤗
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@Dehitay said:
Are you telling me that after survivors fail at their primary objective and then the last survivor fails at the 2nd chance to escape, that their 3rd chance to escape is only 16%? Damn, that's incredibly unfair. Obviously, the logic that 50% chance escape on primary objective, 25% chance on 2nd, and 12.5% chance on 3rd would be the most direct path will have to be ignored for the sake of this conversation cause there's no room for logic here.
How dare survivors have such a small chance to escape and deny killers a 4K after the killer has played the game far better than the survivors and clearly doesn't deserve to be rewarded for it?! I think we need to install a 4th chance for survivors to get out in order to make this fair.
Okay, that's fair, but does this look like a 12.5% chance to you? These weren't from my experiment, but you get the point, the survivor has only one choice here — their only option is to die so they can move on to the next game. That's doesn't sound fair at all, and before you assume anything else, the same thing can happen to the killer as well with opposite Exit Gate spawns.
NMCKE playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.comIn my experiment, it's either a 100% or 0%, and those balance out to around 16%. Now, as someone who plays both sides, I want a flat 25% in every match that balances out to a 25%.
I suggest you read up on my comments before assuming I want survivors to have it easy, because what you assumed about me — it's quite the opposite actually. 😁
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@xXNurseXx said:
yeah i would love to hold 3min m1 to complete a single generator lol
Imagine this with Ruin, PGTW, and Thana! 😉
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@ppo8820 said:
I play killer and there’s nothing worse than watching survivors breeze through gens with their nifty toolboxes. Should gen time be increased to 3 min for regular repair and 1.5 minutes/90 seconds when using a toolbox?
I also saw devs mention creating “dummy” gens on map that appear to be normal gens, but once completed fizzle and explode, and do not count towards an actual completed gen. So each map starts with 9-10 gens and 3 are not real, thus fooling survivors. Thoughts?
Personally, I don't think increasing generator times will solve anything to be honest, and it will just make playing survivor that more boring.
We need a second objective that occurs after generators are powered that's before opening the Exit Gates. Perhaps, there could be breaker boxes survivors must use to reroute power to the Exit Gates? 😁🤗
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966497#Comment_966497
Both sides shouldn't be left with 0 chance, but if there's one person left and hatch was closed, the survivor should have a significantly less chance of success than killer. Currently, there is never a situation where there's 0 percent chance.
Do you know how often I've mind gamed a killer and started one gate, then went to the other one and opened it while they were searching? It's difficult, but it should be difficult. It's not impossible.
That's exactly what I'm trying to say, that's why I want the current system changed, for the better of both sides. 😁🤗
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965774#Comment_965774
I think the doors should stay RNG. During a "last one alive" situation where the hatch has been closed, they should never have a guaranteed escape. The doors being on one side would be pretty much a guaranteed escape. For example - Lery's, Hawkins and The Game (which is the smallest map in the game from one side to the other, BTW). Having said that, the only maps I see the doors spawn opposite on are the indoor maps. I've literally never seen it on other maps. It should be there as a possibility, but not happen everytime.
That's the problem with indoor maps, they always have opposite Exit Gate spawns.
That's why if I want a chill game as survivor, I'll just throw on a indoor map offering and the killer cannot do nothing to me, unless they are running certain builds.
Both extremes aren't okay at the end, both sides shouldn't be left with a 0% chance to complete their objective. I will always stand by that because it's just not right for the survivor or killer to give up due to poor RNG.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966337#Comment_966337
Perhaps..I just feel like making it an even 50 50 isnt fair either because as iterated..said survivor has already failed to escape twice
In my OP, I suggested 25/75. 😁🤗
I made many posts talking about how the new system would work!
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966321#Comment_966321
Yet that's not the only time is it ? What bothers me is as killer you make a minor mistake and you pay for it by potentially losing the game entirely..yet even when the team fails as survivor the killer has to play a boring version of hide and seek just to prevent a severe hit to emblems due to a mechanic that's nothing more than a handout with no need to earn it..this same mechanic also encourages team mates to give up even when victory is possible just to hide for the hatch..that in my eyes is the real issue here
I'm okay with the survivor dying in the EGC, I just don't like to die when that's my only option left because the Exit Gates spawn on the same wall.
I'm also in favor of balancing opposite Exit Gates, make them more fair to the killer. 🤗😁
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@immortalls96 said:
Honestly its fortunate survivors get one last escape attempt at sll..the fact that people believe escape should still be constant after not one but two failures astounds me
I'm one of those people, because I don't believe in your odds being reduced to 0% is fair at all. The same applies to the killer because they have those situations too when the gates spawn opposite to each other. 😁🤗
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966214#Comment_966214
I'd rather not see myself getting cucked put of a pip or even a double pip after I was winning to the point where I destroyed 3 out of 4 survivors and closing the hatch but losing to rng because my movement speed wasn't enough and also rng half the time won't block up god windows I have my doubts about a calculator being unfair to survivors
Okay, let's assume the survivor gets lucky (they got the 25% chance) and got ideal gate spawns with my setup.
They will have to do the following to get their chance to survive:
- Cannot be injured (Killer will hear you waiting at the Exit Gates, but this is countered by Iron Will)
- If the killer is: Trapper, Billy, Freddy (Dream Snares), Demogorgon, Ghostface (Countered by Spine Chill), Wraith (Countered by Spine Chill), Hag (Partially countered by Urban Evasion), Plague, Clown (Partially countered by Calm Spirit), or Doctor (Partially countered by Calm Spirit)... Then you are dead.
- If the killer is running: Whispers or Remember Me (If you're not the Obsession)... Then you are dead.
- Make your way to an Exit Gate undetected and with close proximity to the Exit Gate switches, must do this before 50% of the EGC expires.
- Wait for the killer to leave your Exit Gate, then prime the Exit Gates by progressing it just before the first light. After doing this, go back into hiding and wait for the killer start a new rotation.
- Once the killer leaves again, commit to opening the Exit Gates. If the EGC timer is flashing before you committed to opening the Exit Gates, you were too slow with preparation — you're dead.
That's what it takes for the survivor, with decent Exit Gate spawns, to escape during the EGC by themselves.
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966089#Comment_966089
Your map is just azarov's resting place if the gates were guaranteed to spawn on opposite sides its a guaranteed escape for survivors
I don't think you seen my comment, so I'll post it again here since it answers the problem you're seeing with my idea! 😁🤗
That's why we have a calculator that determines whether or not the survivor gets a chance to escape, assuming they do everything correctly. The calculator will roll the dice and see if they get a favorable gate spawn or not.
There's a 25% chance the survivor will get a favorable spawn and a 75% chance they won't get a favorable spawn.
Favorable spawns will be around 8 seconds apart.
Not favorable spawns will be around 5 seconds apart.
Once the survivor gets a favorable spawn, they have to position themselves, prime the Exit Gates, then hope they managed their time well enough when they commit to the Gates. Not all survivors will get the opportunity to do that depending on the killer, perks, and their situation before hand.
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@Cetren said:
I think my issue with this whole discussion happening here is that tweaking the exit gates doesn't just effect interactions when its just one survivor left. Changing the exit gates spawns when the whole team is alive for example would guarantee survivors escape. The exit gates function the same in either scenario, a change to one will effect the other. It would just be impossible to defend the gates effectively against 4 people with your proposed changes. You can't just balance for only one survivor being left having a fair chance to escape. Because exit gate gameplay can happen with anywhere from 1-4 survivors.
EDIT: Go ahead and test the effect by redoing your experiment with the same rules. (115%, no powers) except 4 survivors alive and tell us the kill rate. Then maybe come check back and see if the proposed change is still fair. Or if killers need a better chance so it doesn't feel impossible after they've already failed.
You should have at least one survivor dead by the 5th generator being completed, and if you patrol the gates, you will find at least one survivor attempting to open the Exit Gates for the entire team.
Chase them and down them, make sure they don't pull a fast one on you by attempting to escape mid-chase. At that point, you got a 2K, that's the balance the developers want.
Survivors try to go for the unhook? Down the savior until the EGC forces them out.
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@ABannedCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965872#Comment_965872
You are wasting your breath here, because even if the developers were determined to implement your idea, they couldn't do it. Why? Because they suck at coding. Plain and simple.
Look at totems spots. They are supposed to be out of line of sight from the spawnpoint of the survivors. But in reality that is quite often not the case. Totems STILL spawn where you can litterally see them in the intro sequence. Now thats just 2 points. Now imagine MULTIPLE points across the entire map. Or quite litterally checking the entire map for vantage points that allowed the killer to watch the exit gates by just walking a few metres left and right. You are expecting something from Behaviour, which they have proven to not be mentally even capable of in their dreams.
You don't need a system if both Exit Gates spawn like this:
I want you to draw a dot somewhere in this picture within the red polygon, then draw a line to both Exit Gates. If that line hits anything besides where the Exit Gates are positioned at, then the killer cannot see both Exit Gates and must traverse to the next point to see the other Exit Gate.
Do you see where I'm coming from? 🤗😁
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@Madjura said:
Your "Trends" section has little value without the data. Even then your sample size is too small to draw conclusions.
Suggestions to make your post more useful:
Most sacrifices where due to Exit Gates spawning on the same wall.
What percentage is that?
Indoor maps are extremely survivor sided.
What percentage of maps were indoor?
Blackwater Swamp seems to be the most balanced EGC map, compared to other maps
There is no such map. Blackwater Swamp is a realm that has two maps: The Pale Rose and Grim Pantry. Are you referring to the realm or a specific map? What percentage of games were on maps of the Blackwater Swamp realm or the specific map?
Now, with that said, I want to stress the next part, these numbers are subject to change since I'm always expanding on the experiment with more games.
You should specify and separate the numbers by game version as patches can be impactful.
Thank you for the feedback, just replying to let you know that I read and understood everything!
I'll let you know when I updated the thread! 😁🤗
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@Fibijean said:
9/10 times, it's about rubbing their victory in your face. Some will even wait for the killer to arrive at the gate just so that they can teabag before they leave.
The tenth time is when you've let them go out of mercy, and they might squat a couple of times to say thank you.
You nailed it, basically survivors tbag when they want to add insult to injury. Other times, it's just a "Thank You" or something else depending on the context. 😁
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965872#Comment_965872
You look in gate A. You walk towards gate B while watching gate A's entrance. A quick glance into B lets you stand at gate B watching gate A until the survivor gives up or the timer runs out. It's only minorly better than just being able to see the switches.
I honestly don't understand how you've concocted the idea that there's some magic distance that will make a skilled survivor get out. If the killer can get from seeing one gate to the other in 10 seconds or less, they win. If they cannot, the survivor wins. It still completely relies on the RNG that there isn't line of sight between the gate entrances, or on the path between them. You can calculate the exact walking distance that can be made in that time and you'll still get gates that can be seen from one spot.
There's no magic distance where a good killer player walks in a straight line back and forth and a bad one thinks that they'll go take a pee break in the corner instead. It's still entirely down to luck of the spawns based on line of sight, and your solution is just as problematic.
Either the killer can patrol them fast enough, or they're so far apart that only mobile killers can reasonably win in the end game.
You look in gate A. You walk towards gate B while watching gate A's entrance. A quick glance into B lets you stand at gate B watching gate A until the survivor gives up or the timer runs out. It's only minorly better than just being able to see the switches.
Specifically: "You look in gate A"
When you search a gate area, you're losing a lot of time because the survivor can be at the other gate opening it, especially when you have to make your way from the hatch to a gate. That's not the way to go about it because you're already putting yourself at a 50/50 for no reason.
The best thing you can do is check gate A then quickly check gate B to make sure the survivor isn't already at the gate you decide to check second.
I honestly don't understand how you've concocted the idea that there's some magic distance that will make a skilled survivor get out. If the killer can get from seeing one gate to the other in 10 seconds or less, they win. If they cannot, the survivor wins. It still completely relies on the RNG that there isn't line of sight between the gate entrances, or on the path between them. You can calculate the exact walking distance that can be made in that time and you'll still get gates that can be seen from one spot.
AND
There's no magic distance where a good killer player walks in a straight line back and forth and a bad one thinks that they'll go take a pee break in the corner instead. It's still entirely down to luck of the spawns based on line of sight, and your solution is just as problematic.
That's why we have a calculator that determines whether or not the survivor gets a chance to escape, assuming they do everything correctly. The calculator will roll the dice and see if they get a favorable gate spawn or not.
There's a 25% chance the survivor will get a favorable spawn and a 75% chance they won't get a favorable spawn.
Favorable spawns will be around 8 seconds apart.
Not favorable spawns will be around 5 seconds apart.
Once the survivor gets a favorable spawn, they have to position themselves, prime the Exit Gates, then hope they managed their time well enough when they commit to the Gates. Not all survivors will get the opportunity to do that depending on the killer, perks, and their situation before hand.
Either the killer can patrol them fast enough, or they're so far apart that only mobile killers can reasonably win in the end game.
Explained everything above. 😁
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965845#Comment_965845
Even so you're idealising the situation. If you made the gates hidden like this, you would still encounter the same situations where both can be seen from the same points. You can't flatten every map to remove every vantage point, or remove any RNG of tiles that might provide a gap to see through.
If you predetermine distance around the travel time of an M1 killer, then you haven't balanced anything at all. It's either possible for them to get from one gate to the other in less than 10 seconds or it's not. If it is, the killer always wins, if it's not, the survivor does. And there's nothing to stop the killer looking behind themselves as they walk to the other gate which cuts however many seconds of line of sight that they get off time to actually open it.
Even then, Billy, Spirit, Legion, and any other killer with the slightest bit of mobility gets guaranteed kills.
As it is, it's possible to escape the end game collapse alone. It's hard, but it happens. Sometimes RNG favours the killer, sometimes it favours the survivor, and sometimes it's outright impossible to get between gate a and b in 20 seconds. I think what we have currently is as fair as it's going to be, and I certainly hope they don't make it a secondary hatch to punish the killer for playing well.
I don't see how you can get a vantage point in this scenario here:
I couldn't find not even a single spot in this picture where the killer can see both Exit Gates, unless you're talking about the entrances, but then again, what if the survivor is already there?
About the balancing around the M1 killer, that's just me telling you how easy it would be to change how close or how far they spawn. I think it would be best that 25% of the time, the survivor will get favorable spawns and the other 75% not favorable spawns. Favorable spawns for the survivor doesn't automatically mean, "They win, they escape" because there's still a process that survivor has to go through and there's still a lot that can go wrong on their part.
Ultimately, this would need testing, but I think this is the only solution besides @SpaceCoconut's idea to make the EGC fair for both sides. Fair meaning, 25/75.
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@Tisfine said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965813#Comment_965813
So what's wrong with it? This is a 4 v 1 game. Your odds of escaping should be decreasing the lesser your number is and the killer becomes more of a threat, The fact that you even got a 50-50 hatch and still want a 50-50 gate is the one that's ridiculous. Why the killer has to roll the dice TWICE despite demolishing the opposite team is beyond me.
Again, Take the L. None of you deserved to escape in that scenario. Do your best to farm points, You should get a pip if you were actually was an asset in that match.
I never said the Exit Gates should be a 50/50, if you read my post, you would have seen this on the second paragraph on my post:
I just want the survivor to have at least a chance, and having the Exit Gates spawn on the same wall is just not fair. The same applies to the killer when they spawn on the opposite sides of the map, that's not fair either.
I don't think both sides should have an impossible chance of completing their objective.
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@anarchy753 said:
Ok, first off; I do not believe hiding the exit gates is good solution at all. It ensures that to check a gate you have to walk right up to it and walk inside the area. That would be an escape every time, as all you have to do is wait for the killer to check the gate you're not at, then it's guaranteed to be more than 20 seconds before they're back. Not to mention you can already shave ~4 seconds off that by stopping the opening action before the first light goes on and hiding to give yourself more breathing room.
As has been said many, MANY times by both people on here and the devs, simply changing gates spawning rules is vastly problematic. Some maps have points where you can see both gates no matter where they spawn (ie Rotten Fields on a harvester.) Sometimes spawning on different walls still allows for line of sight between the two. There's also a huge amount of killers who have no form of mobility that don't deserve to lose the kills just because the game has another factor that favours the already high-tier killers.
If you set a minimum distance between gates, or increase it, you again secure a free escape every time. Look at the indoor maps, all 3 have predetermined gate spawns which have a significant travel time and line of sight blockers. The only way you die on these maps in the end game is if you make a mistake, or if the killer makes an absolute fluke of a guess and doubles back at the exact right time. (Barring specific killer powers, ie mobility/traps.)
As you well know, and has been stated many times in the past, the 1v1 end game collapse SHOULD be in the killer's favour. Your team has failed to do enough generators. You have failed to find and escape through the hatch before the killer shut it. Powering the gates is really just a formality so you have some chance of escape. It should definitely not be a 50/50 shot of escape when the killer has played the game perfectly to that point, that's what the hatch is for. More importantly, it should not be survivor-favoured, which I'm sorry, but your suggestion is.
Edit: Honestly, 1 in 6 (your current result) is a pretty decent shot at escaping considering the circumstances. And that's an incredibly small sample size regardless.
In my example, you can easily tweak the distance between the spawns to make sure the survivor has to play perfect to escape. Ideally, I was thinking it should take 7 seconds to travel point A to point B, which would be 14 seconds for a full rotation.
Then, if the survivor set everything up by shaving off 4 seconds off the Exit Gates, that's 2 seconds left for them to open the Exit Gates. The survivor needs to do something else to get the last 2 seconds, and I know, this sound strong, but that's assuming:
- Vanilla gameplay, which means you can't equip any perks, items, or add-ons.
- The killer cannot use their power and they must be 115% (4.6m/s).
There's a lot of things that can straight up stop the survivor from getting close to opening the Exit Gates if those rules weren't there.
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@ABannedCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965774#Comment_965774
Do you think exit gates spawning on the opposite side of map, is deserved for the killer for playing well?
Both extremes aren't fair, but it's more likely than not, survivors are stuck with Exit Gates on the same wall. I played countless maps where the survivor's odds are rendered impossible against a good killer. Even the indoor maps aren't fair, I don't think the killer deserves an impossible chance to catch the last survivor.
I think we both want the same thing here, that being a fair chance for both sides.
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@Tisfine said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965774#Comment_965774
Yes. Your team played poorly.Why should the killer be punished with RNG? Be happy you got another chance with hatch and another chance with exit gates you don't deserve.
I play both sides, and even this is ridiculous:
NMCKE playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.comIf the survivor's only option is to just die then something is definitely wrong, your odds should never be reduced to impossible because simply, we don't know why the survivor team lost.
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@YaiPa said:
the survivors deserve a chance
Unbreakable, deliverance, dead hard, last minute decisive, adrenaline off the hook and adrenaline unbreakable, hatch even with 5 gens left, super distant doors like Lery's, keys.
Yes, survivors clearly deserve a chance...
Not every survivor runs those perks, and sometimes that survivor had no control over their teammates getting destroyed by the killer (I seen this happen very often with Kindred when the killer does the basement challenge).
Currently, without both players using perks, items, and add-ons. Assuming the killer is 115% and they don't use their power at all, the survivor has a 16% chance of survival during the EGC. Most sacrifices are due to Exit Gates spawning on the same wall, which renders the survivors odds to 0% for most games. Do you think that's fair? Do you think the killer should get the last 25% of their objective because they sacrificed 75% of their objective?
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@Vert3x said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/964379#Comment_964379
I also thought of doing that, but I would rather a list of rules to appear in regards to the 60 seconds. Something like:
Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.
After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for a Timer of 40/50/60 seconds.
- The Timer will progress at 50% its normal speed while the Killer in chasing you
- The Timer will progress at 50% its normal speed while you are in the dying state
- The Timer will be canceled if you heal up to full health
- The Timer will be canceled if another survivor is put on a hook
- The Timer will be canceled if you get into a locker during a chase
While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check
to automatically escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 5 seconds.
- Succeeding or failing the Skill Check will disable Decisive Strike.
- Successfully stunning the Killer will result in you becoming the Obsession.
Increases your chances of being the Obsession.
The Killer can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
I like the change, it prevents the survivor from becoming invincible by jumping in a locker.
One time I got unhooked with Second Wind, then I jumped into a locker so the killer can either wait (I heal up to full) or grab me (they eat DS).
Now, the killer can slug the DS survivor to at least get some momentum if they decide to show themselves.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
The survivors are supposed to be at a heavy disadvantage during the EGC (unless all gens have been completed). If one person is left, and the hatch has been closed, the killer earned the advantage they now have.
@Tisfine said:
Good number. Survivor doesn't deserve another chance to get out, They already had that with Hatch. Take the L.
Do you think Exit Gates spawning on the same wall is deserved for the survivor for playing poorly?
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@Elk said:
First, it just me but i like even things so 37 games...um i like 40. It doesn't change anything just in my eyes and head i go "aaaahhh!"
Second, no Head-on! Ew
Okay now seriousness:
Hmm this seems very interesting. It is close to your goal of 25% with vanilla games. Are you gonna have experiments with just perks? With just add-ons/equipped items? The whole sham-pow!
Another thing you could try is 'How many times does exit gates spawn on the same wall?'
I plan on reaching 60 games, but 37 is enough in my opinion to get a rough estimate, and about the perks, there's no good way to go about using them without there being bias.
For example, I could use Whispers and that's GG for the survivor everytime.
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This is OP, please nerf. 😡
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@humanbeing1704 said:
I just wish the gates didn't spawn on the same wall that really shouldn't be a thing
My suggestion to fix that is having the Exit Gates spawn on the same wall, but they are sinked into wall so it's impossible to keep both Exit Gates in view.
Here's an example on what I'm talking about:
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Dull totems don't warn the killer, that only applies for Hex totems.
Nevertheless, if TotH is going to remain a Hex, it should do more than what it does. I do have an idea, but it's kinda corny in my opinion. 😁
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@tetsuo said:
I mean seriously guys, I feel like playing with 3 perks when I use since it's so useless, 3% is very small for a penalty, make it relevant with a 5% penalty at least
Thanks
As the game progresses, they want the Obsession to become more powerful while the killer thrives on the weakened survivors. The other survivor's only hope is to seek refuge towards the Obsession.
I feel like the developers want to keep the concept of the perk, but they aren't doing it right in my opinion since you barely see that effect play out for either side.
Dying Light:
Become Obsessed with a survivor.
Survivors within 8 meters to the Obsession will be immune to the effects of Dying Light. Once the survivors are out of range to the Obsession, they remain immune to Dying Light for 60/45/30 seconds.
Everytime you hook a survivor that's not your Obsession, all survivors expect the Obsession will suffer a 5% penalty towards all basic actions.
As OP wanted, more slow down and the Obsession now plays a different role besides becoming a medic.
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Oinkers would disagree! 🐷