Moundshroud
Moundshroud
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The only problem I have with Bubba is his walking animation. I hate it so much. It looks prissy and slow and yet he isn't slow. It hurts my brain. :)
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@DudelPumaAce said:
he needs more movementspeed when he is veiled
he needs a complete veiled, look it spirit has invisible and can come out and hit you instantly, wraith has a warning before he attacks and cant hit you instantly...
he can be burned, he cant take surviver up when he is invisible and and and...
Are you kidding? With the add-on(s) available to him he can already lightning around while hidden. I actually saw him pass me veiled once and stand in front of me.
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1675608#Comment_1675608
RED LIGHT......... GREEN LIG- RED LIGHT!
Pretty much, yeah. :) Simple binary but it is better than the arm thing. At least everyone would be on the same page as to what the colors mean. :)
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@ABannedCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674846#Comment_1674846
Sorry to break it for you, but Spine Chill doesn't have a cooldown.
Yeah, my head was on wrong. I play against it all the time, but I don't use it myself. For some reason I thought I'd read through it once and it had a short cool down. It certainly explains a lot, as to why I find it near impossible to get around.
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@Doctor_Derek said:
I hate Object so much. It completely takes the fun out of Myers who is one of my favorites. I don't even want to play him now. Sucks.
I'm not sure I understand why? Michael Myers is the least affected of all Killers by OoO. He starts the game in Tier-1 and his aura is invisible to the OoO by default. All they get is a flash on their HUD when you look their direction. They can't see you or effectively evade you. If you wanted you could tunnel the OoO out of the game with ease. Their Perk is essentially a 5th Perk for you, not them. If you are play Spooky Myers you will have the awesome invisible aura all match. I absolutely love pulling OoO people who are spotters for their SWF. They lead me directly to the entire team.
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@MasterofSFL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674795#Comment_1674795
This condescending tone thing, you can drop it.
If you have a problem with verbose posts, fine, lets be succinct: as long as toxic methods of play are on par with non-toxic ones, players will choose that method that benefits/is least detrimental/risky to them. It's that simple. I'm arguing for a stick, sticks are necessary, provably so. If you think a small hit to end-game emblems is a "stick," then I don't know what to tell you other than, you're wrong.
If the Devs want to go the way of MTG's R&D, by all means, go for it. Developers don't have to address the concerns and frustrations of the community (of which, this is a reoccurring one), though if past attempts of that methodology are anything to rely on, it doesn't turnout well for the game or it's playerbase. You can keep cracking snarky remarks if you wish, but my concern is game/community health, not "wah, I'm having a bad time, fix it."
You don't understand; I've been going easy on you. You say you are concerned about the health of the game. I doubt your concerns are greater than the people whose jobs depend on it. In short, you sound very entitled and very self-important. I tend to give the DEV the benefit of the doubt that they do know what they are doing. The game appears to be doing just fine, and they are steering a decent course through a storm of variables and adversity. What exactly are your credentials? You and I might have opinions, but that doesn't make us qualified. So, you will have to forgive me if I distrust your motives and tend to lean on the DEV more than your less than insightful screeds.
But you can prove you are not a hypocrite or just full of hot air. Vote with your wallet, and don't let the door hit you on the way out. If you think things are as bad as you seem to infer, you should be moving along. Do you follow? You make it sound like Armageddon is upon them and only taking your advice will save them. What do I think? I said it before in regards to your ideas, and I'm sure I'll say it again. Nonsense.
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The only way I have found to work around Spine Chill is to make an educated guess to where the Survivors are (already know one has Spine Chill) and then start that direction without looking at it. This requires a lot of practice and tends to only work in larger, outdoor maps where you won't continually bump into walls. :) It CAN be done, and I have managed it a number of times. Is it worth doing? No. All in all Spine Chill is going to alert them that you are looking their direction and you just want to burn it out fast so that the short cool down leaves you with that short window where they don't know where you are exactly.
I found attempting play around Spine Chill was ultimately more penalizing than just ignoring it and accepting that some Survivors know I'm coming.
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@buzzygoat said:
Well lets make this quick unlike my 3 other tries to type this
Anyone who plays this game often and is in the community knows behaviour favors the survivor's words more then killer and for that I say it's not right but it is way more fair then if they favored killer since well killers won't complain about their killer being op all they would have to do is complain about a survivor perk that counters their ability like calm sprit against doctor and then it would kill the survivors ability to have a fighting chance but when behavior favors survivor it hasn't killed the game and I don't see it happening anytime soon
Conclusion I suck at ending these things but instead of going crazy in the comments talk about this like civilized humans because I want to hear what you think and hear your criticism but please don't be too hard on eachother this is just for conversation
Edit: made it easier to read
I haven't seen any evidence of this personally. I think you should support such a premise with evidence statements if you are going to make it. I think Behavior listens to whatever and whomever is going to keep their company healthy and making profit. That is commonsense. The game only works with both Survivors and Killers. They need both equally since it is not cost effective to have to come up with AI code to Bot either side. That would cut seriously into the bottom line. This game was clearly founded on a brilliant idea, why not let Players provide both Antagonists and Protagonist and save us the nightmare of all that code?
To me, anecdotal evidence alone, it is clear that Behavior studies and works toward keeping the game as healthy as possible for all sides because that is what keeps them in business. Balance will never be perfect in a system like this because there are too many variables. However, they do a fairly good job by all accounts and the clear evidence that they are still here and roaring along successfully. In this market, far more games crash and burn (and are forgotten) than those which last four years and turn a profit.
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@MasterofSFL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674727#Comment_1674727
"Some of you responding seem to be laboring under this idea I want killers nerfed and it's so unfair to be a survivor. I play Survivor/Killer roughly 50/50. I want the toxic forms of both mitigated and mediated.."
The fact is you did try to justify camping, you even go on to explicitly justify it two sentences after saying you weren't. Your argument shifted from the "Players are agents who determine what is and isn't fun" to "If it's part of the game, it's fair game." That's not how game design or balancing works. That logic just leads to never patching gameplay again.
This nonsensical repetition of killer's being people is just dumb, to be frank with you. You're saying the Killer's fun and agency is just as important as the Survivors fun and agency, ok. Now what? Does that mean at no time Killers can't be buffed, because it affects the fun and agency of Survivors? You're not saying anything useful with that statement, only trying to equivocate that Killers and Survivors are the same. They're two sides within an asymmetrical game, there are going to be times when one side needs direct intervention to stop certain habits that only pertain to that specific side. I would bet money that if I looked through every patch note to date and the dev notes for them, I'd find changes specifically targeted at Killers or Survivors because the activities they were engaging in were directly detrimental to the opposing side (even if one side found it fun and "legal").
I pointed out to you that carrots require sticks, that means even if you nudge players in one direction with incentives, that's not enough to make them go down that path. The specific form of camping, Blatant Camping, that this discussion is about also happens to be one of the least Bloodpoint generating methods of playing killer. Adding in additional Bloodpoints to incentivize activity, when clearly the killer isn't directly concerned with their Bloodpoint earnings doesn't solve the issue (you'd earn far more BP a game chasing, hitting and using your powers).On top of that, there's nothing stopping a killer from Blatantly Camping after maxing out the Bloodpoints earned from your suggestion. That's why you need a stick to go with it, so that there is a clear, obvious, optimized and profitable choice and a clear, obvious, waste of time.
Lastly, this idea that punishments don't work is absurd. Damn near every online game has a form of punishment for unwanted activity, specifically because punishments do work (how often do you see Survivors permanently hide, knowing crows exist?). If you punished camping by giving survivors a random unhook + sprint burst + invulnerability, you bet you'd never see a killer camp after having it happen a few times. Obviously that ruins the entire balance of the game, which means you need something that works on the margins of behavior: I.E. a clear detriment to doing X. If you wanted to add in a clear benefit to avoiding X as well, then that expands those margins and strengthens the notion that doing X is detrimental. Nothing stops your suggestion being implemented alongside the one I put forth, but your suggestion cannot achieve anything on it's own.
I'm not adverse to the long post myself, but there has to be a point. You seems to think more words automatically add weight; they do not. You seem intent on arguing for punishments. Can you show us on the doll where the bad camper touched you? :) Look, the DEV have stated over and over again that camping (all kinds of camping) are valid choices. This means you aren't going to get the crack of the whip you want because the thing you want punished isn't a crime. Accept it; you will be happier in the long run.
What you argue for is both unreasonable and ultimately doesn't work anyway. The only way to ENCOURAGE Killers to stay away from the hook is to educate them on why it is generally in their best interest most of the time, or to weight things clearly with enticements so they make the choice you are hoping they will make. It has to remain a CHOICE. Rewards work. I often suggest that Killers who move away from the hook earn progress (sort of a Killer Bold) not unlike the Bold Survivors earn for staying in a Killer radius while not in chase. Both actions require a leap of faith and taking a risk of losing something valuable.
I'm not going to rehash that in depth now, because it isn't necessary. What is important is getting you to understand that you are trying to build a castle on a foundation of sand. Your very premise is wrong, and unsustainable. This is because you are operating with an entirely different perspective than the DEV and a lot of us. I play Killer and Survivor. I think camping is fine. It is just part of the game. I don't think it needs fixing at all. However, I was willing to engage in this discussion with you and make suggestions on how to achieve your goal (less camping) in a way that doesn't go contrary to established fact. The Dev have already placed a penalty in the game which hits people (to a degree) for staying close to the hook. Be grateful you got that much. Now it is time to add the carrot.
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Lithe is better than say Sprint Burst because the Survivor can choose to run normally most of the time without triggering it. Lithe only goes off when you choose to trigger it. Granted you have to always be mindful of your surrounding and keep that Vault's position as part of that internal HUD but in combination with the factors for looping and where they come up, I always get more out of Lithe than I do the others.
Consider poor Sprint Burst types. They want to jog to the next Generator or move quickly but can't because the second they run, they have exhausted their main ability. So they have to WALK. :)
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They belong in the game, period.
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@ClickyClicky said:
No. Survivors are now prioritising totems. Both of these are on average going much faster than before. Unless you want to waste your time running to defend totems every minute, in which case survivors would just sit on the gens.
Not to mention not all killers can pressure the map equally and not all maps are easy to apply pressure on. Plus it’s hard to judge how much effectiveness Ruin is giving you. Sometimes gens will fully regress, sometimes you’ll only get bits of regression but other survivors will finish the gen.
I’ve already ditched this combo on a number of killers and I’m having more success running former builds and builds more tailored to each killer.
For what it’s worth I feel like Ruin/Undying was shadow nerfed in a hotfix. Undying is the first totem cleansed 99% of the time. It was happening so frequently over so many games that a 50/50 chance does not explain it. If you flip a coin 50 times you don’t expect it to be Heads 45 times ya know?
They are making Totems a priority which is why I like the combination (and I tend to throw in Thrill of the Hunt too). My goal is to use that priority to find the Survivors very quickly (as a Myers). To me this is better than say a Corrupt Intervention which only buys me two minutes of locking down the Generators far away. This combination ensures I find the Survivors FAST, and in many cases allows me to keep Ruin up quite a bit longer. I realize this combination may be niche for my Myers, but I just wanted to point out that I WANT them going after the Totems in this case because that is my actual purpose. Extending Ruin is nice but an afterthought.
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
It's like pointing. It could mean 10 different things based on context and what each individual perceives it to mean.
I pointed at a Pig that had me cornered and my teammate thought I was betraying his position so he left me to die.
######### stupid.
Part of that is the 3rd Person viewpoint that Survivor's use rather than the 1st Person that Killers use. It is very difficult for Survivors to really get a perfect bead on what people are pointing at because their viewpoint is so fluid. I'm sure to that person it did look like you were pointing at them. Worse still, there is a small but nasty number of Survivors that do work for the Killer and spoil matches. I think ti is cheating and should be banned. When I, as a Killer meet one of these types clearly trying to work with me, I down them immediately and will camp them in a way to make sure they sac out. I report them and provide the video.
I also think other Killers who run into them should refuse to accept their help.
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I've often thought an addition to the Perk: Kindred would be nice, i.e. you could push the "Y" button so highlight yourself in a Green Aura which indicates "Come Get Me" or hit "B" for a Red Aura which says "Do Not Come and Get Me."
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@MasterofSFL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674153#Comment_1674153
I've said this before, so I'll repeat as many times as I have to: asymmetrical games require as asymmetrical solutions. Survivors and Killers each have different considerations to take into account. Killers want to be able to chase/hook/kill survivors without being endlessly harassed/looped/interfered with. Survivors want to be able to successfully escape chases/hooks and avoid dying, without being overtly oppressed.
Just because a killer likes killing and winning the game with a 4k does not excuse the existence of secret moris, which breaks the format and expectations of the game. Conversely, just because survivors like surviving and winning the game, does not mean 4 man flashlight DS+Unbreakable+Borrowed Time should be condoned. At some point the game has to function within a certain parameter for each side, so it's completely irrelevant whether or not a killer finds a particular thing "fun." If something you're trying to justify comes at the cost of game and community health, then the bar for that things has to be higher than "Well, these people like it, therefore."
This is specifically why I stated in the OP and in multiple posts within this thread that the distinction between Blatant Camping and "Bait & Ambush" needs to be made, where Blatant Camping is standing in plain view, with your terror radius, watching and daring the survivors come rescue the hooked man (typically the first one downed). "Bait & Ambush" is concealing yourself and your terror radius nearby the hooked man, using your powers/perks to setup ambushes. It's the plain difference between a Ghostface hiding behind a tree or a Trapper running Insidious and placing traps all around a specific hook vs a Leatherface dragging a survivor to a hill, hooking them, then standing on the hill till the survivor dies and/or others attempt to unhook.
If you want to try and argue anything resembling the latter is justified because "The killer is his own agent, he decides what is fun," then there is absolutely no rationale within the Dead by Daylight community to complain about 4 man SWF squads making the game a living train wreck for killers. These survivors are their own agents and they decide what is fun. That's obviously absurd though, so why even put that forth?
Nonsense. That was a whole lot of hot air so you could vent a spleen. I never attempted to justify anything one way or another. I don't have to do so. Whatever a Survivor or a Killer decides to do in the game (that isn't hacking or lag spikes) is automatically justified. Legal choices are valid choices, and none of my business. I could care less about your "feelings" on the matter. When I entered this thread I made a suggestion of how to achieve the goal that seems important to you, i.e. how to encourage Killers to camp less (any kind of camping). I pointed out that you have to make it worth the Killer's while so that they make the choice. I pointed out that punishments never have, and never will work.
Do no put words in my mouth, nor should you assume too much about my motives. I'm completely transparent about my bias and intentions. I feel communication in this type of venue is easier that way. I'm going to repeat a simple truth since you seem to miss it over and over again. Killers are not Bots; they are Players just like you and I. Their agency (free will) in the game is just as important to them as it is to anyone else. Their fun is likewise just as important to them as it would be to anyone else. The symmetry of the game has no bearing on that whatsoever. If you wish to encourage people to engage in a behavior, you make such behaviors more valuable than the alternative.
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@ringwinning said:
Is that overkill? You obviously don't want survivors doing the totems too fast but I like that with undying you can see their auras (even though TOTH gives you noise notifications)
Opinions? Honestly I would just rather go with PGTW because it's a reliable perk that can't be taken away from you.
Depends. This is actually my favorite Hex configuration running Spooky Myers. It lets me find the Survivors REALLY fast, usually lets me get an initial grab, and has good odds of keeping the Generators regressing as I run people around, homing in on them by the Auras. I know I'm in the minority, but I find this a VERY effective combo.
Usually in the first 15-30 seconds you will hear an audible warning causing you to look the right direction and you will see an Aura even if out of Stalk range. :)
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@ringwinning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674166#Comment_1674166
I'm curious as to how you pressure generators while keeping up your totem count AND downing survivors, I know you're a Myers main (right?) so we have different playstyles, but can you expound on how to keep up pressure on three fronts?
On the subject of Ruin+Undying I never trust totems :\ And then I have to manually regress generators myself which takes time. It's... annoying.
Yes I'm a Myer's main until I hit that Rank-1. :) I suppose the best way to describe is this to say that you want to manage chases so they involve more than one person. If you herd them right, rather than letting the Survivor entirely pick the direction they want to go, you can have the chase go toward the next Generator and hopefully disrupt it. When I'm playing a Spooky Myers (Scratched Mirror + Boyfriend's Memo) my build (these days) is usually:
Hex: Undying
Hex: Ruin
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt (or sometimes Haunted Ground if I'm feeling sassy)
*And either Sloppy Butcher (if I'm putting in a Map Offering for a small indoor one) or Play With Your Food
This is how it works. In the first 15-30 seconds at MOST I will hear an audible warning that someone touched a Totem OR I will see the Aura as someone passes close to it. In general, I'm already moving up through the center of the map in a winding line to Stalk and wall hack anyone as I move forward. I have a pretty good ratio of doing a Grab successfully within that first rush and I'll pick a Generator with multiple people on it if I can. Grab one and hit the other. Ruin kicks in immediately. Go for the hook. Chase the one hiding nearby because they don't assume I'm Spooky and down him/her. By this point the 1st Generator is popping up but I have already disrupted them a pretty good bit.
Now, if I saw someone go right for a Totem, and not the 2+ on a Gen I will grab that Totem Cleanser fast. Normally they spawned not that far from the rest too, so in grabbing that one my Wall Hack will show me the others too. So I get my locations again. The key to Spooky Myers is you MUST have a location on 1+ Survivors early and then just chase, break off, jump scare, chase and down. They won't know where you are and if you keep them guessing and jumping at every shadow, the Generators are not popping. Ruin will do its work.
To answer your earlier question, I'm not TRYING to protect all my Totems and all my Generators. I'm just looking to cause maximum chaos and paranoia. I am just using the Totems as motion detectors for that initial rush. More to the point, since I don't have Insta-Down (unless I brought Haunted Ground) a Grab is my BEST friend, and I'm VERY good at them. If they are foolish enough to let me get one in the basement and even slightly altruistic.... it gets ugly real fast. I will literally leave the basement area.... act like I don't see them (when I clearly can with the Wall Hack) so they will go down. I can time my return to the Basement really well and Grab while they attempt the Unhook. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. There is no way a Killer can do everything, so you have to pick your battles. Maximum paranoia with a Spooky Myers is often more powerful than an Infinite Tier-3 Maniac Myers because you can just keep getting them off the Generators.
Spooky Myers is slow (and only PWYF helps). So you do need VERY efficient patrols as your Generators start popping. What this means is EARLY in the game I have already picked the 3-Gen I mean to defend. If I'm not on the map of my choice, this is key choice #1 and I generally pick the 3-Gen next to where I cause my first initial grab and panic, i.e. where the Survivors usually spawned or started their work. Largely this is because if I hook one right there and particularly if I get the second there (who tried to hide to do the rescue) I've tied up half their group and the other half is going to work Generators and try to time that first rescue. So I want to pull them into the area I'm going to defend end game as long as possible because it prevents me from having to patrol it and to a degree the areas away. Does that make sense?
*Now when you are being sassy and running Undying+Ruin+Haunted Ground they have a problem. They really need the Ruin gone because if I'm doing my job they have to keep getting off the Generators. But if they go for Totems they might trigger the Insta-Down for me.
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Yes and no. It is only as good as the Killer is at keeping up Generator pressure. It doesn't matter if Ruin stays up the ENTIRE game if the Killer isn't getting people off those Generators. Do you see my point?
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@MasterofSFL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673223#Comment_1673223
To deter behavior, you need to provide both carrots and sticks. I have only come across one true punishment for staying around the hook and that was the first PBE, of which was just a binary Yes/No of whether the killer was or was not in range. Simply giving bloodpoints for doing what a killer should already be doing under most circumstances isn't the bullseye here. Giving killers more innate power probably will exacerbate the issue, allowing them to have a weaker BBQ&C will just tell experienced killers whether or not camping is the move. Whatever carrots you want to give the killer, the fact is the stick has to be tied to standing with the hooked survivor, otherwise it's free bloodpoints/auras up until you want to camp.
If you read the post, you'd know I am not contesting "camping as a tactic," it's blatant camping as your sole method of playing. It doesn't matter if the killer's performance is or is not hampered more often than not, that's only a point in the direction of making the act not worth it in the first place. The fact is that it is about the fun of survivors, as the next poster points out.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673760#Comment_1673760
Which is why I have also stated that survivors being camped need to gain Altruism and Objective points. That lessens the frustration of the act and at least gives the incentive and satisfaction that surviving as long on the hook as possible means getting something out the game and the rest of the survivors leaving (I.E. not DCing immediately).
However, this whole concept of "Good X do Y, therefore" is neither a counterpoint or a rebuttal when talking about an inherently toxic, counter-intuitive action. It doesn't matter if "Good Survivors do Gens," bad killers let survivors do gens. I don't know about you, but when I play survivor, I play for the action and pressure, not to hold M1 for 3 minutes while I play walking simulator. So a camping killer does in fact harm more than just the hooked survivor, it's also lessening the overall game for the rest of the survivors, whether or not three escape and one dies. As with the first reply in this post, when you want to promote one action and deter another, you need both carrots and sticks. If the game was geared to more team-based plays and rewards, the altruism aspect of the game would be intensified, making hook saves more valuable and therefore, camping more lucrative.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673334#Comment_1673334
Survivors already show up to hooked survivors and wait out the killer to leave or taunt them to chase. You've lost the plot here, the issue is blatant standing next to a survivor and camping the entire game, 10m is roughly a 3sec walk for almost any killer (which is also roughly the minimum safest distance for an unhook) and the complaint/criticism here is that survivors will show up and somehow ring the killer around the hook in just the right manner to never engage a chase. This is forgetting that the PBE you said was a problem occurred in September of 2016 when the only available killers were Trapper, Wraith and Billy, some of the easiest to kite killers in the game. "Sprint Burst" was the only exhaust perk in the game and it's highest tier only left it off cooldown for 20 seconds and it recharged even while running.
What was being abused wasn't just the hook-distance mechanism, but also the lack of mobile killers while the most mobile survivor perk had an absurdly low cooldown that could be used effectively ad-infinitum. So everything that created the framework for that abuse (Lack of mobile trappers, high mobility on low cooldown, universally used mobility perk) has been removed or solved within the game. Between the Terror-radius now being a qualifier (with many killers now being able to remove it), a ~3 buffer zone for most killers, a chase breaking the effect and survivors being unable to infinitely kite, the problem you're pointing out can't exist in this form.
But it isn't about that. The Killer is a Player too and his/her agency is just as important as the Survivors. They are not Bots, and we don't get to decide what is fun for us is more important. Thus, the only thing that will work is making it lucrative to move away.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673989#Comment_1673989
My comment was to the poster, who titled the discussion as if the addition of Undying somehow affected Third Seal and OoO's interaction.
And I guess since you approached me first, I'll just point out that each time Third Seal is cleansed, you would need to re-hit the Obsession because Undying removes all stacks. I find extreme issue with Undying, but this post is not meant for that.
Absolutely true. Do I think Undying is necessary with 3rd Seal? No. But it doesn't hurt it either. I suspect people taking Undying with 3rd Seal are using it more for the Aura Motion Sensors than they are for resetting the Totem. Or they have a third Hex in play that is more important to them.
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@Mooshroome64 said:
It kind of would, as others have said. But getting that first hit to apply it each time can prove tricky when the OoO user has prime opportunity to position themselves well. Certainly worth trying out!
Depends. Context for me is I only play Michael Myers, and will continue to do main him as my Killer until I can hit Rank-1 with him. It is a personal goal. If I'm playing Spooky Myers (and I often am doing just that) OoO Survivors are totally screwed. All their Perk is doing is letting me see exactly where they are no matter the distance and I don't even have to Stalk to do it. They will know I'm looking their direction based on the HUD but it suffices to say their Perk just became MY Perk.
When I play Maniac Myers, I often consider the 3rd Seal simply because I will see the OoO immediately (just like for Spooky they can't see me until I go to Tier 2+). Thus I will make a beeline toward the OoO and hit him/her immediately so they can't see me even when I Tier up. If I'm not running 3rd Seal I'll just tunnel the OoO out of the game. It is nothing personal. So, full disclosure, as a Myers I don't really mind OoO.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
I mean, why do you need Undying? It's already true for Third Seal except that the survivor can still tell your general direction.
I never said you did. I simply stated the potential value of the 3rd Seal, not the least of which when you hit everyone they can't see where the other Survivors are and spend more time looking for them for rescues. If you have everyone marked, it also works well with Slugging. Undying is just a convenient way to protect another Hex and to give you motion detection when people move too close to your Hexes.
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@MadLordJack said:
I'm fairly certain OoO will still light upon the HUD, so it's not quite the counter you may be hoping for.
It will light up, sort of a poor man's Spine Chill, but it is still a lot better than them seeing the Aura big as daylight. I love using the 3rd Seal on a Maniac Myers. When I play Spooky Myers I love OoO even more since I can see their aura and they can't see mine.
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I think Hag is fine. She has some serious strengths and proxy camping is one of them, but she is hardly OP. You just can't fight her the same way you would a lot of M1 Killers. Remember, you can crouch through her traps. Her reliance on said traps means you can get away with a lot of work in a area without her checking up as long as you don't trip them. Flashlights will destroy them. If you are going for Basement rescue (or the third floor of Cold Wind house) you will want that flashlight or you are in for a very bumpy ride indeed.
Hag spends a lot of time, like the Trapper, setting traps. She is fairly predictable too, so just get versed in it and you will do fine against her.
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The 3rd Seal absolutely counters OoO. If you hit the OoO Survivor they will be Blind and unable to see auras, period until the Hex is cleansed. They will have the witch's mark. You don't need Undying for it to work, but Undying is always fun.
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@Buttercake said:
Why Kate Gambit? Why not Ash Gambit?
Better yet, what about the non-sexist Kash Gambit! 😄
Because I like Kate better than the Ash? :) That and most people don't expect Kate to have Flip Flop but they ASSUME Ash has it and he gets picked up right away.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673130#Comment_1673130
They are multiple flaws to what you said. Let's start the the obvious "rush gens."
The death timer from hook is 2 minutes. You can only achieve 2 gens in the 1 minutes because a solo gen is 80 seconds. That's more than 1 minute for 1 gen. Let's assume all 3 survivors are spreading out gens.
Only 1 gen is getting popped during that 2 minutes. The killer is almost guarenteed a 2k if they arent bad in chases. A depip means nothing as rank doesnt matter and most camping killers do not care.
Ahh yes my favorite argument "survivors have perks to deal with this scenario." That Is bandaid fix to a problem. You shouldnt have to run perks to deal with something such as camping.
One more thing if camping subjects the survivor to holding m1 there is no real reason to play. Holding m1 is boring and chase is the only interaction. If you are somehow fine with this clear design flaw that's quite weird.
You are assuming that they are starting those Generators right when the Hook starts. Chances are they were already working them when the unfortunate got downed and then hooked. Most Survivors will milk that time to finish their current Generator before even thinking of getting up to go for the rescue. The only important thing is to get there before Stage-2 starts (if the first hook). Beyond that, an early unhook around a camping Killer is wasted opportunity.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673425#Comment_1673425
so are survivor complaints not valid? If a killer complains its completely justified?
Neither complaints are valid. Unless you are reporting actual hacking, lag spikes, or inappropriate Salt, your complaints are just a whining screed. Survivors and Killers both are entitled to make their choices in game, bring the items and Perks they want, and do anything that is within the rules. I'm not saying you can't complain. You have the right to scapegoat whatever you want. I'm just saying it won't be a valid complaint.
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@xevra said:
every game tonight the killers are bringin ebony mori and tunneling people right off the hook (mostly console killers)
and on these forums I keep seeing killers say "we dont bring mori's if you dont bring maps and keys"
yet there has been 0 keys/maps in any lobby I joined and yall still out here with the ebony yall be toxic af so dont complain about survivors teabagging at the exit cause u cant mori them we can be just as toxic
The Mori (all types) are things Killers earn on their Blood Web. They don't have to justify why they bring one, anymore than you have to explain why you brought an Insta-Heal add-on or put in an Ormond Map Offering. In my experience, most Killers bring the Mori if they have a challenge they are trying to work, or they think they are facing a SWF. But regardless of the reason, they are entitled to it.
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A better way to look at it is the Entity (the Emblems) enjoys a good game, a struggle. Just like us, the Entity doesn't think a "blowout" is all that fun to watch. Ideally, equally skilled Killers and Survivors go up against one another and thus matches would rarely be anything but hard fought. This is why the Emblems/BP reward people who have hard fought, longer matches more than ones that are over fast and efficiently. Let me point out a few things:
- As s Survivor I can bring (5) Generators up by myself and get out alive and not score all that many points.
- As a Killer I can 4K the Survivors and have the game over in record time and not score much and even lose a Pip.
The Survivors in the examples above didn't earn any Altruism points, probably not much in the way of Bold or chases either. The Killer won't have much in the way of chases, lost out on hooks, etc. The Entity isn't really that interested in watching you play Status Bar Simulator, or see the Killer stand there and whack the hooked Survivor like a Pinata.
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@arcnkd said:
... of salty-ass killers using Ebony Mori just because they had a bad day or are a toxic individual - especially when multiple Survivors burn things like Green Envelopes and Bloody Streamers during that match.
Either remove the damn problem - as we have been telling you for years now
Or change them to automatically refund any offerings used by Survivors if they are used - so a bad-mood Killer can't make you practically waste bonus BP offerings just because they don't care about their ranks/pips.
The Mori (all of them) are an offering that said Killer worked to purchase in the Blood Web. You don't know why they chose to put it in, so it is better not to assume. Whatever the reason, they have that right. Killers in turn don't have the right to be salty about you using Keys or Insta-Heals, or whatever the heck you choose. Please be respectful for the choices of others as long as they are legal. The only actual rules we should all be holding each other to are:
- Don't cheat, either with hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
Your complaining here would be an example of how NOT to be gracious in defeat.
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I want Sam (Samhain) from Trick 'R Treat, and Mr. Kreeg as the complimentary Survivor. I think a 2-3 Block neighborhood filled with houses decorated for Halloween and clearly late night after the Trick or Treaters are all gone would be perfect.
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@Bigun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673445#Comment_1673445
No, and I hate to say it: Get good.
The game is way too easy for killers. No perks - wipe team - doctor good - rinse repeat in warm water. It's honestly boring and I feel bad for the survivors. I actually feel myself cringe when I have to load up a killer because of a daily ritual.... because I know, regardless of how little I try, at least three of them are dead, if not all 4. Hell most of the time I play friendly just to allow some points to build for everyone.
Hence why I have one prestiged killer and 4 or 5 prestiged survivors.
If your killer skills are so poor that you need to camp to get your kills - get your money back and go bully some toddlers. I'm sure you'll get much more satisfaction out of it.
I literally snorted soda out my nose reading this. It will be interesting to revisit this topic with you somewhere down the line of your journey. It suffices to say in the weaker Ranks (among newbies) things seem Killer weighted. I assure you things change as you go forward. I fight just to hold the line these days, a win in my personal mind being not pushed out of the Red Ranks before reset. :)
As you go forward, Killers have a much harder time holding the line. You need to play both sides, as I do, to really get a feel for the truth of the matter.
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I think a lot of it also depends on the day of the week and the time of day you play. Remember that a SWF has more logistics involved in scheduling, 4x the people equals 4x the potential conflicts. If you are playing during work hours, school hours, or some ungodly time in the late night, you are lessening you chances.
You can also jump Lobbies to FIND a SWF. Just leave until you get one where all 4 people warped in at the SAME time. This is not guaranteed but highly increases your odds that they joined from a Lobby where they mustered up together.
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@Thatgurl_again said:
Where the [BAD WORD] do you find these god tier survivors? All I get are Claudettes who hide on the out skirts of the map, megs who kill themselves on hook and baby dwights! I'm on red ranks! If I got one of those god tier teams, I'll think I'm dreaming. SoloQ has left me with two options, either complete half a gen amd everyone's on death hook all of a sudden OR take a long [BAD WORD] chase, a tunnel and no gens pop. I dont like playing a swf cause the info is way to strong. So what is left for me? Have a nice day!
I wish I had your problems. I haven't seen a potato since leaving the Green Ranks.
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I feel that he juices up and marks a Survivor way too fast compared to how long it lasts. I don't begrudge him having a different mechanic than my Mikey, but it is a bit speedy. Personally I would be happy with any of the following changes:
- Stalk for him only works while he is not moving, or at least slows him down significantly.
- Stalk up to reach critical mass is a bit longer.
- It wears off much faster, pretty much his Insta-Down is really for that moment.
I'm not saying ALL of these Nerfs. Any of them might take the edge off without ruining him.
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@kornrad_711 said:
Anyone else have this problem? You go against a really good survivor team and they do gens quickly and efficiently. They finish all the gens and you know your not gonna win the game at all so you head straight to gates and open so the survivors can leave and you can finish the match quickly. But instead they sit their and t-bag until you get close to them or the EGC timer starts to run out.
Why do they do that I've completely given up but you still want to waste my time by t-baging I don't get it. (I didn't even tunnel, camp, or slug all game.)
I'm a Johnny-Come-Lately to this thread so I'm sure others have already given this advice, but NEVER give up. You should fight every game to the bitter end. I've been a Survivor before with (3) other Survivors disconnecting and four Generators left undone. The hatch got kicked shut. Did I stand there and wait? No. I do my best to get a gate open and loop. Every second still in the game is a learning experience. If the Survivors Gen-Rushed me into near oblivion, I remind myself that I'm not gone YET. Every second I have to keep hunting is a chance to improve hunting and looping. And who knows, I might earn enough points in chases or get a down and prevent a loss of Pip. Every blood point counts; why would you leave money on the table?
If you want to get good faster, you don't shy away from a losing game. You dive into it and fight harder. Practice makes perfect, and ditching a game to start the next one doesn't help you. You want that practice when all is lost and things are hardest. You get more out of that than you do the start of a new game where targets are fresh and you feel no pressure.
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Yep, this kind of map and an alien may be long overdue. However, the Entity and its Lore seems more Supernatural leaning than Science Fiction. Perhaps that is why they haven't done it yet.
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@ItzPixelYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673292#Comment_1673292
But this is the problem, in order to actually get some decent points, survivors need to get some unhooks and heals etc...and it's not fair on the person getting left on the hook either...so it's not survivors playing bad because they aren't forcing themselves to run Borrowed Time...it's Killer literally having no incentive to do anything but take 1 person out of the game...have you seem how bad of a penalty a survivor gets for a unsafe unhook even if they take protection hits for it?...
The problem is that you CAN get those safe unhooks even against a Killer that is camping an area. How do I know, because I've had people taken from right under my nose many times. There is a difference between a safe rescue, an unsafe rescue, and a coordinated rescue. I've had all the advantage of the basement before and had a determined team of Survivors come in and bully me and take my prey. It can be done against the most campy of campers. The key thing is most campers aren't face camping, and thus it can be done against the worst, it can be done against the casual camper too.
There are all sorts of ways to get a Killer away from a hook, but the most obvious is bait. Someone pops up pretending to come for the save but is really there for that Killer to get pulled away. This is why Looping skills are so important. Sometimes you have to get into a chase on purpose.
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@Clevite said:
When I first started it was more solos, more healing, less gen rush, and killers therefore took pride in being a good killer using the so called "survivor rule book."
But the meta shifted to survivors rushing through gennys, not wasting time healing , more swfs, which resulted in less time for the killer to actually play the game, get hooks, patrol gennys. And of course after playing by the rule book, it was just constant locker spamming at the exit gates to ensure the survivors got to tbag on their way out.
As such, newer killers where told, throw out that rulebook and play to win. And behavior conditioned killers that to win, pip, they needed a steady average of 4k games.
So, now we have the sweat fest that is today.
I always ask, but no one ever answers.
Could we as killers accept less kills, if we were awarded pips for being more interactive, more hooks, more chases and such?
Killers, just like Survivors, are playing to win and earn as many Blood Points and Pips as they can. If the Emblems and point earning changes, we will change with it. Right now what you have to do to "win" has been left vague and rather subjective. So the only real way for a Killer to feel satisfaction and KNOW that they won is a 3K-4K. People who are more grind-minded treat a win as a game where they earn the most points and/or Pips. I agree that clarifying things might direct behavior.
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The only thing which will "effectively" deter camping is to make it worth the Killer's while not to do it. Punishments for staying near the hook have never worked, nor will they ever work. I suggest creating a benefit to Killer BP or emblem advancement which rewards them for moving away from the Hook (when not in a chase), not unlike the "Bold" Survivors get for remaining in the Killer's Terror Radius. In this case, going further from the Hook and remaining away would earn. Likewise, a version of Barbecue & Chili (weaker) could be made base package so the Killers have something to move TOWARD whether an Aura shows the Survivor's briefly or lights up a Generator(s) currently being worked. Killers will be more likely to leave that "bird in the hand" if they have a direction to go. Do you see my point?
Camping is a valid tactic, and is sometimes the right move. More often than not, it only hurts the Killer's overall performance. Until we make it crystal clear through rewards that moving off has merit, pointless camping will remain. That is why it is more common among new Killers who don't really understand when/why they should camp versus when/why they shouldn't. I think all of you are presenting this in the wrong, self-involved light. This isn't about your fun as Survivors. It is about commonsense in application, i.e. what is rewarding and what is efficient for the person you want to NOT camp you.
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Every match since I hit Red Ranks playing nothing but SWF Seal Team-6? :) Just maintaining, let alone earning a Pip, at this level is hard as heck. You get to being grateful just to see Brutal Killer appear at the end, even when you got a 3K. :)
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@Venzhas said:
Remember back in the days the experience was fun, now 9/10 games its tunneling, tryharding, toxicity. This just going boring. Why ?
No, and I suspect neither do you. Take off those rose-colored glasses of nostalgia. "When I was a boy I used to walk five miles to school everyday, through the snow, uphill both directions." Your memory will play you false. This is a PVP game. Everyday it is the same song, with an evolving riff and beat. I've been playing PVP games since Pong and I can tell you they are always cutthroat.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673150#Comment_1673150
No. How can you lose and rank up? I didn’t ask how pipping worked. Pipping means you rank up. Why would you rank up if you lost? You could lose your way all the way up to rank 1. Makes sense.
Because the Entity (Emblems) is happy with your overall performance. It doesn't care if they get away, not really. It cares about the sport, the struggle.
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This is a thorny subject. In the LORE the ultimate goal of the Killers is to sacrifice the Survivors before they get out of the match. That creates this notion in the minds of many Killers (particularly new) that doing so in the most efficient manner is the way to go. The problem is that the mechanical aspects of the game don't reward this whatsoever. It would be better to think about it this way in the Lore:
*The Entity is an immortal being which clearly takes great joy, entertainment, and perhaps sustenance from the fear, anguish and emotional roller coaster created by matches. If it was just immediate torture and death it wanted, it would not have the farce of the repeating contests in the first place. Clearly the Entity needs the Survivors to experience hope, so it can be snatched away. For whatever reason (beyond what is speculated here) the Entity wants matches to last a bit, to draw out the event. That is why it considers letting the Killers murder people a "treat". Mostly it wants people put on hooks, pulled off, only to be hooked again and eventually sacrificed.
The mechanics (Emblems and BP) does match up with this viewpoint. You earn more toward advancement (and BP) by playing extended matches. The longer the match lasts and the more different types of activities you engage in, the more you earn. Consider the Gatekeeper Emblem. If you efficiently kill the Survivors in the first two minutes, you haven't really earned much. If you 1-Hook all your Survivors and they die on that hook, you are only shortchanging yourself. Like it or not, the only way for you (or the Survivors) to maximize their Emblems is to play fairly competitive, longer matches. Gen-Rushing Survivors that get gates open in record time and avoid the Killer and injury don't really score much either. The Entity is interested in the STRUGGLE. The outcome is really unimportant since it will just replay over and over again.
So what does all this mean? It means that Killers suffer from 1-Hook and camping in MORE ways than just letting the rest of the Survivors get the Generators up. It means that Survivors who do nothing but Gen-Rush are also costing themselves points. It means that the DEV want games to last longer and be more conflict and angst-driven. Survivors seem fanatical about turning the game into a status-bar simulator and avoiding the dangerous stuff. Killers seem intent on getting a person down and then guaranteeing that kill. Well, I hate to tell you this but the Entity (and the mechanics) do not like a sure thing.
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The Players most annoyed by it are those that perfected the Gen-Rush and spent all their time telling Killers to apply pressure. Well Ruin+Undying only works if the Killer is applying pressure. In short, it is primarily SWF that hate the new combo because it throws a wrench into their classic Gen-Rush strategy as they now must also do Bones.
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It depends. If I can down them within an additional 15 seconds (or less) and I'm not worried about a Generator popping, sure I'll put them down. Sometimes if I'm in a target rich environment I'll just wound a bunch of people. In general, if you can put them down quick and you haven't already over committed to that chase, you might as well get the hook.
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@itsmetimohthy said:
As a killer main, I just want everyone to be aware that if you run Ruin/Undying you are no different than a survivor running DS/Unbreakable. You all have a smol pp. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
Funny. I run the combo all the time, and I've never had any complaints. :)
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@lucid4444 said:
"If they see you are too close, they won't risk the rescue. Remember, every Survivor that comes to rescue a hooked person isn't doing Generators."
I wish my teammates would do this. Instead they see a camping killer and start to crouch-walk around and stare at the killer. Then go in at the last second and get killed too.
They will learn. What new Survivors need to learn is milk hooks and camping Killers for the most Generators and Totems they can, but to make sure they try to get that rescue before the hooked one hits Stage-2. These things only come with time.
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@KingFrost said:
What killer would be like "Yeah, I'm going to line up in the Competitive Queue!" There'd be no killers there. So competitive mode would be a survivor lobby simulator.
Plenty. I know I would. The key thing is a Que for that can be balanced with additional objectives or Perk Slots unlocked for the Killer without messing things up for the Solo. Killers are fine with a challenge. They just want to KNOW and have a level playing field.