MeltingPenguins
MeltingPenguins
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/200406/deathslinger-shadownerf
Can we please stop calling bugs shadow nerfs?
Thanks
This thing is too specific to be a 'bug'. if it were a bug we wouldn't see a consistency in its effects. I rather thing some people not experiencing it is the bug
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@MadLordJack said:
I honestly haven't noticed anything, but if it's true then I guess that's a good thing.
Wierd that I haven't noticed, though. Maybe it's a bug that isn't effecting everyone? Or maybe I aim longer than I realise? Or maybe I just don't take enough long-range shots.
can't help you there.
and lbh: trickshots, which usually require aiming, are more fun for either side at bottom line.
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Tested a bit more, and it seems to be intentional.
Though, having talked to some friends who play FPS they said that's actually understandable, as apparently a lot of FPS use the same mechanic to stop quickscoping.
And honestly? personally I don't mind. He's actually more fun this way, for both sides (based on some survivors thanking me for actually aiming, with one memorable occasion of 'i like slinger the way you play him' (note: they died on third hook))
Seriously, dunno about you people, but I wouldn't mind these changes to be refined and made official.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
Seriously, have you all never played the previous events? Before, you have alternate objectives such as gathering serum which could then be spent on cosmetics. Now, you have 3x Rift challenges that allow to get a measly 4k BP, and that's it aside from pumpkin gens and hooks. Replacing a fun, engaging event currency with a credit card is disgusting, and BHVR knew full-well what they were doing when they made it. This "apology" is just a response to attempt to appease people when their shot at skimming players for more money didn't fully pan out.
This is the same thing with Sets, they started out slow and continued to ramp them up when they saw they were profitable, if people happily accept a few shards and BP as compensation for the gutting of a previously enjoyable time, then the game will continue to deteriorate into a MTX hellscape.
This is a horror-esque game, yet COD and WoW have better Halloween events than it.
btw this is a company that rakes in money off of skins and the rift already, they aren't some 4 man dev team that deserves to be treated like Jesus Christ himself.
a yes, the big companies that are forcing their teams to come to the office to code are so much better for their events than the comparatively small team that has people work from home during covid...
.........
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@TheShocktor said:
Sometimes it seems like the game chooses the map that best counters my killer. Ex: I choose Huntress or Billy, entity says let's go to Lerys lol 😆
That's what I mean.
Good thing it would require me to know what I'm doing for the Entity's plan to work out.
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@MrLimonka said:
Firstly, a realm is chosen at random (like MacMillan or the Farm maps), and then a map is chosen from that realm. So even though there are 5 badham maps, the probability of going to badham is the same as the Saloon for example.
has someone tested if the killer has any influence on it? It feels some maps come up for certain killers more often than others.
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@Yarheeguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1701541#Comment_1701541
it could be possible that if survivors managed to escape from the trials, they keep their memories, it's only when they're killed or sacrificed that they lose their memories all the way to the moment when they were adducted.
it's possible that survivors could escape more than once and learn more about the realm and did some things before they were killed.
Killers (the ones who are willing to kill for the Entity) obviously keep their memories and see survivors as those to torment.
Some killers (those with black eyes/sclera) seem to have been messed up by the entity, perceiving the survivors as something else. so it's debatable how many of their memories they retain.
Like, with Huntress it might be that she solely sees the clothes differently, tricking her into thinking its plain intruders, with something she can't name compelling her to hook them.
Deathslinger sees everyone as Bayshore etc. so he'd catch on after a while.
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@Sandwich_Jesus said:
Whether people like it or not, camping and tunneling are valid tactics and noed is a hex perk which can be countered.
Yea people are playing to win which means using any tactics available ,as a result people will not be forgiving and just kill people as fast as possible.
But I do agree people do tend to do this around events
it's not an event thing, really. It's constant since the last reset. And sure, these things are tactics, but when you have about every match go like that, regardless of rank, then something's gone wrong
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703614#Comment_1703614
Her base kit changes the game, and if there's one thing I have learned, it's that survivors are lazy and don't like it when their primary strategy for combating killers can no longer be relied on.
exactly. Like, especially when you look at the killers that are commonly declared 'unfun' 'op' etc, it's usually more of 'okay, they do need a tweak here and there, but not a complete rebuild or even removal, people just need to adjust to them,
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@sudintlink said:
Maybe but they can't give out this much shards or everyone would own every non licensed character in the game by just logging in
I was thinking about something like the flowers spawning that survivors and killers can interact with that rarely gives out shards (which you also earn through leveling, after all), maybe up to 100 in some cases, usually less, and on extremely rare occasions give out cells (maybe 10 or so)
So you'd have to play basically 24/7 the whole weekend to get enough shards to buy all the things.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703577#Comment_1703577
Sorry, Forgot to add the "/s" to mark sarcasm. Honestly, every single time someone posts questions like the OP's, there's always a plethora of survivors that basically state every reason in my list above as the foundation for why she is considered overpowered and must be nerfed into the ground. Less experienced survivors will even claim that her power is "unfair" and "has no counter-play", which of course is ridiculous since you pretty much spelled it all out in your comment I'm quoting.
So why am I posting the list then? Simple, I'm just trying to beat the rest of them to it so that everyone who sees it will take it into consideration before repeating the points I already made, which I'm only reiterating based on countless previous posts, in order to speed up the debate. At least this way, whether meant sarcastically or not, people can just get right to debating those complaints instead of drawing it all out for 30 or so comments until they are ultimately stated the way I posted them.
Sigh... I hate how predictable the inevitable comments on these "Pig Related" posts have become, when in reality, the truth is simply that despite all of those listed complaints against Pig, she's far from Over Powered, features lenient counter-play as part of her base kit, and the only reason she is a threat at all is because survivors typically just don't know how to effectively deal with her. It's not surprising though, she does have the 4th lowest pick rate after all, and so she isn't encountered as often as Huntress, Spirit, Doc, or Freddy.
Honestly? I think Pig suffers from the same bias as ... a lot of killers... : an unwillingness on surv side to change tactics, thus declaring her OP when the same routine doesn't pan out.
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@KingOfBadRNG said:
Ehh a change in perspective helps or a change of mind makes the games fell much better.
Some people I've seen try to blame it on things such as consoles players or blendettes but honestly I like to try my hardest to play as killer and survivor.
so do I.
Like, when I play killer, i only get the occasional toxic swf, but often even those turn out good sports when they see my perks and acknowledge I play as fair as possible.
But playing as survivor has become a bit of a chore. And to the person who said 'they play 'for fun': none of the things you listed are 'fun', especially when they happen in every match. It's just exhausting after a certain point.
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@TWiXT said:
- Her RBT's ensure that a survivor stops focusing on doing gens and has to run around for up to 2 minutes trying to get it off of their head.
- If they don't get the RBT off of their head before the timer runs out, it kills them.
- Pig can bodyblock the jigsaw boxes to ensure an RBT will kill a survivor.
- Jigsaw boxes skillchecks are affected by Unnerving presence.
- She's stealthy.
- If she has 2 or more survivors with ticking RBT's she can focus on the survivors doing gens instead which stops survivors from doing them efficiently, resulting in slowing the gen progress to a crawl, and hands her an easy win.
- RBT's = same slowdown as "old" Ruin, except it can't be destroyed in the first minute of the match, and it's her base kit so it doesn't take up a perk slot.
"PiG OP, pLZ NeRf!"
add to that many survivors rushing gen no matter what.
All the matches I escaped against pig usually had a team (swf or not) that knew to 99 gens and get the rtbs off before popping them. (and pig didn't camp anything, of course)
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@ALostPuppy said:
If they listened to the community and acted on their wishes? Survivor would be unplayable, killer would be boring and the game would be dead.
This. Realistically speaking, this.
Should there be more communication from the devs and less secrecy? sure. but that can only work when people also manage to not go for their necks if some hype doesn't live up to unrealistic expectations.
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@Freudentrauma said:
I understand why you would consider it a shadownerf, but I honestly that's a bug. Maybe something related with Server synchronisation..
The consistency in the chance to miss is odd then, though.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/200406/deathslinger-shadownerf
The complaints are about lack of counterplay, not how easy it is for Deathslinger to hit his shots. I don't think there's any need for this sort of a mechanic; he needs other changes.
Also are you sure that the shot doesn't fly off to the side when you're strafing a bit? That's how sniping would work back in BF3 and things - I wonder if they take your character's momentum into account.
A lot of the complaints concerning his counterplay are connected with quickscoping and faking shots. So I'd say if there's now a def chance a quickshot will fail, people don't have to 'worry' about that too much, meaning they can run until they hear the genuine mechanic whirr of him aiming.
Like how you usually only strafe against huntress once your hear her 'whoa'
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@Gruo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1701295#Comment_1701295
How was that retconned?
Gotta look up some quotes, but there seems to be more talk about what survivors and killers can and can't do.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1701511#Comment_1701511
Aren't you flicking it too much tho? Sometimes the shot kind of goes sideways if your sensitivity is too high when quickscoping. I'll probably test this today because it got me curious.
I thought that too at first, that's why I played with the sensitivity settings. Haven't yet tried putting the keybinds to the keyboard, though.
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@NursesBootie said:
If that's true it's kinda odd, because i could't explain how they can mess that up.
undocumented change? I dunno either. I'm just glad there seems to be a mechanic behind it, and not just my incompetence.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Hmmm, how did you notice that? I played everyday since the update and didn't notice anything unusual.
Missing shots that def should have hit (because the survivor wasn't moving), so I tested against a tree on various mouse-sensitivity settings
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@Crap_Martini said:
Possible that the longer you are there the more detail is pulled from your mind. the more you are sacrificed the more it knows. The more it knows the better it can trick you and instill false hope.
I don't think mind control is something the entity does as this essentially removes hope by removing choice.
(Although I do appreciate that you might not mean that sort of control)
I believe it needs the survivors and the killer to have free will.
Some killers are described as doing as they like, which displeases the entity but it doesn't appear to punish them for it.
The entity takes a broken or corrupt person as the killer but seems to ensure the killers favourite plaything is taken to its realm to motivate the killers.
The entity canonically messes with the minds of killers and survivors.
While the 'all memories of trials are removed from survivors' has pretty much been retconned by now, we have a number of killers the entity tricks into killing. 'plaything' might be the wrong word
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1693453#Comment_1693453
I sense an implied "Hags use NOED" here...
Naw. Just her basics. also, from a mindboggling match today:
You're up against hag: He has someone hooked in the basement, and trapped the stairs with about 5 or more traps. due to kindred you saw where they are. she has not noticed you and there's obviously no way she will if you don't trigger the traps. Do you run in activating them all or do you sneak in?
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@Kagari_Leha said:
that's just repressed alliance, you know, the Cheryl perk everyone forgot even tho it's pretty good actually ?
At the very start of a match? naw?
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@KaarelK said:
They used the gen lock perk
I play deathslinger, have some respect for us slow killers. D<
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Ah thank you, didn't spot that.
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Just give us the code for every, devs, c'mon.
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@TheShocktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1697139#Comment_1697139
Do you think other gaming companies don't have ways to test their games' patches before they are released?
they have contracts with the companies to have the okay.
As people on here love to point out 'corporate greed'. If you think bhvr is bad for that, you should see the hassle they are probably facing from license holders...
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@TheShocktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1697095#Comment_1697095
They don't even have to have a ptb for console. Just fire up a ps4 and test the build you're about to release in house. It blows my mind how often this happens. I know they care more about pc than anything else but we paid for this game too. Not to mention the money spent on dlc after dlc, cosmetics, and the rift. The least they could do is test the version of the game they're giving us. That reminds me of another gaming company that cares more about money than quality products. I love this game and have for years but if BHVR is turning into EA Canada, it's heartbreaking.
iirc microsoft, sony etc aren't that keen on 'homebrew' stuff. it would need an emulator to test, which would not be the same. I need to check back with a friend who's working in the field, but iirc it's not as easy 'just fire up your console'
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To actually answer the question:
They can't test on console because of Microsoft, Sony, etc putting boulders in their way.
If you want a PTB on consoles, you have to get those companies to allow it (for dbd) by default.
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Thing is: do you know?
Sure, there are some additional signs, like hyper-high ping, but the following has happened:
Killer getting accused of Wallhacks for Whispers and Murmur
Survivors getting accused of wallhacks because of kindred
Killer getting accused of hacking because of insidious, survivors for distortion (iirc the name correctly) or (not kidding) sitting behind a gen vs BBQ.
You have to be able to prove it instead of just dcing. It's obnoxious, sure, but that's the sad issue
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@Xpljesus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1696638#Comment_1696638
I'd go PH style where he's slowed/has a cooldown after cancelling M2. Huntress has to wind up at 86% or whatever and move to zone you, and you may have to juke, but it's not overtly oppressive because the speed is balanced. Slinger basically does this at 110 by existing or by tapping ADS, a slowdown for 0.5-1s after coming out of ADS could help this.
Problem ofc is the fact he's not even that good a killer anyway, definitely no nerfs needed. I'd honestly consider making him 115 if you went the route of only nerfs to the speargun, otherwise you'd maybe want to basebuff the reload speed, range (18>20m?), and time it takes the chain to break. You're not wrong though, it's very hard - infact there are clearly a lot of people who don't like the PH changes (I love them personally, just hope the insta M2 bug is fixed) but even if they do turn out to not be impactful, I appreciate them because for both PH 3 days ago and Slinger, as they stood, were absolutely miserable to go against to the point I'd just say do something, anything, cause it can't be like this. If killers like Slinger, Freddy, Spirit, PH didn't exist I'd probably not even be a killer main, but there's too many absolutely miserable experiences as surv for me to main the role (these killers, bad random teammates, moris) whereas with killer it's basically just the maps since you can dodge keys, and even then bad maps aren't exclusive to killer too, with maps like like Shelter Woods, Sanctum of Wrath which are really ######### as surv due to lack of resources, and ones like The Game and Midwich, while being survivor sided maps, have really uninteresting gameplay.
PH's M2 is an area attack, though, so the wind-down time for Slinger would have to be different (again, the miniscule hitbox and the twist to the aim)
I'm still saying the better solution (additional to wind-up) would probably dynamic map creation (so killers spawn unique map set-ups, not just extra stuff) and maybe more means of movement for survivors (like diving to the side)
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
My reasoning is that huntress has to wind up her hatchets while deathslinger can shoot his gun instantly.
Yeah, but Deathslinger has a smaller hitbox and range for his weapon.
And a shadownerf of a random twist to the shot that has insta-shots go to the side (we tested )
Not against a wind-up time, but can we agree 3 seconds like huntress would be too much?
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@Xpljesus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1693379#Comment_1693379
until he is changed, hopefully
Question is how. A lot of threads I have seen suggesting changes for him would either change nothing or make him unplayable.
If you give him the same wind-up time as huntress (which I see being called for regularly), you might easily screw those playing him over due to the limited range he has. You make his TR bigger/more noticeable, it might easily have the same effect. Not saying it definitely will, but it easily could. Especially in combination.
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You people have funny ideas how much this stuff costs...
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1695348#Comment_1695348
Its not about complexity. I played spirit and with a good headset and only got 1 2k by a good team everyone else was 4k except maybe 1 or 2 3k and it wasn't because I was outplayed. The only complex thing about spirit is learning how to use your ears good.
As you said, good headset. Which, lbr aren't usually exactly cheap. If people argue that certain perks shouldn't be a necessity, then equipment shouldn't be either.
(and then there's the issue of accessibility.)
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Why is it even called 'shelter woods' btw?
with such a name and trapper's lore i'd have expected this to have been where the miner's barracks where.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1695329#Comment_1695329
I'm fine with them having licensed content locked behind a pay wall, at least the characters themselves, but the fact that their OWN content is locked is dumb, and it costs WAY too much.
More transparency would probably be a step in the right direction. Like, if it's legally possible (might not be due to NDAs), show us where the money goes. wages, equipment, taxes, etc.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1695264#Comment_1695264
Well I think no killer should be removes nor get that much hate. I havent seen it but I dont doubt you. All it takes is ine PH DS or spirit who knows how to use their power to make you feel hopeless and just hate them. I contemplate quitting as soon as I get one of those killers who know how to abuse the bad mechanics soley because I want to be able to have a chance at living longer than 30 seconds
I don't think one can actually make things better unless the game gets more complex, which seems to be something people (at least some loud ones) are very much against.
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Good post.
A certain part of the blame's ought to go to the community, though. There's a small, but very loud part that continuously will beat any suggestions/attempts to shake things up in the game, demand really big name franchises to be added without realizing that will cost money, etc.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1695179#Comment_1695179
Yeah it's not, but the issue with that is I hated spirit and deathslinger eventually and I couldn't properly explain why because I just never thought deeply and after reading what other said I realized I agreed. Thats no bandwagon and in a game like this people have to realize that not everyone can be in touch with their feelings like other or just downright dont pay attention to why they dislike something. And also opinions are subject to change. I mean I look like I bandwagoned but I was always like dude what am I supposed to do against spirit and then I heard why she was so oppressive and it finally taught me why I didnt like her. You kinda understand?
kinda do, but by all means, I don't see spirit get the hate deathslinger is getting. I don't mean on the 'needs a nerf' level, I mean beyond that. And all because he's 'unfun'.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1693393#Comment_1693393
Have you ever heard of initial thoughts and opinions?
thing with deathslinger is that no one complained till some big name streamer said he can't be countered the usual way, which the community twisted into 'he has NO counterplay' which lead to 'he's unfun because you can't run him', which ultimately lead to some people being outright vicious towards everyone who likes him in any way.
And I hope we agree that the latter is absolutely not okay
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1694519#Comment_1694519
I'm a slow my bad my point still stands though you continue to make these slinge posts and refuse to actually listen to points.
So does mine that you're throwing rocks in a glass house.
Okay, we are both stubborn. And I am willing to listen to points, but not when the points boil down to 'you play the game wrong because you rob people of chases'.
I do agree (i think i mentioned) that Deathslinger should be barred from using M&A. I also do agree that a bit of wind up time would not be bad (though it might actually make him more powerful or not make a difference at all). What I don't agree with is when people say that he should be removed because you can't loop him (and other things)
Personal solution would be dynamic maps, but that's a different topic
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1694728#Comment_1694728
People aren't insistent on playing against him in the same way. There is literally no effective way to play against him. You can't effectively stealth a killer with a microscopic terror radius (24m base, M&A is rampant, and his TR spins up slowly). "Just run Spine Chill" is not an answer. Perks should not be necessary to counter killers, and it's unreasonable to run a specific perk 100% of the time just in case you get the right D20 roll and face a Deathslinger.
or, any killer, lbr.
People justify running the infamous 2nd Chance build by basically saying 'but what if', so why not run a perk that has a substantial advantage against many killers?
To come back to comparing Caleb and Michael:
One argument brought up is 'if deathslinger sees you, he can shoot you', but you'll never hear 'if michael sees you, you're screwed'. Because I had a ton of matches against a Michael in which i was the only one with spine chill, and each time it went the same. SC triggers, I look around, spot michael, and signal others to get away. they don't. you can guess the rest.
There's a number of killers that strike me as designed with a non-chase based counterplay in mind, but Deathslinger's the first one where it bites people in the butt if they still try to pull their routine.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1694611#Comment_1694611
I'm confused... is your point that we should have killers that don't have counterplay because some survivors might not like chases?
No. To clarify:
A lot of people declare Deathslinger to be the worst killer ingame (to the point of calling for his removal) on the grounds that you cannot engage him in chases.
Which, according to said people makes him broken, unfun, uncounterable.
And yes, a lot of people have brought up that the main counter to him is to play different. Stealthily.
Which is often met with the statement that only chases are fun (their claim).
And this is the question that I am asking here: Why are people so insistent of playing the always same way, to the point where them doing their, well, routine, becomes counterproductive (the waiting in the gate for example)?
Related: There has been a threads calling for massive nerfs because an attack at the gate threshold ended in a different animation (the backflip) allowing the killer to pick up the survivor who was certain the attack would get them over the threshold to safety.
There have been threads about removing various killer perks (bloodhound for example, iirc) because the make chases unfun (on that note, I'm all for barring Deathslinger from M&A)
As, yes, others have pointed out, a lot of threads concerning nerfs boil down to some people demanding that there is just one way of playing a match, and that it must be favourable to survivors. And I'd like to understand how someone can be like that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1693396#Comment_1693396
Counterplay shouldn't be limited to "hope the killer doesn't have FPS experience" or "hope the killer's aim twists" or "hope the hitboxes suck". Survivors should be able to play well to extend chases.
What about those survivors that hate chases? Because whenever your argument is brought up, there's this undertone of 'everyone who isn't drawing the biggest fun out of chases is playing wrong'.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1694301#Comment_1694301
Im a guy. Why are you saying thank you exactly?
correcting you on that I'm not a 'he' and the rest is vitriol
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1693373#Comment_1693373
Dude that's what I'm saying I used to make a ######### ton a few months ago asking for counterplay and hes doing the same thing except hes on the slinger side.
she or they, thank you.
@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1693596#Comment_1693596
Karu he has ignored every single one of your comments making valid points. I day leave him be. If it isnt to say how survivors are cant adapt or cant change their playstyle he isnt having it.
pot kettle black. You kept ignoring every legit counterplay in your threads.
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Both Wraith, Michael and Deathslinger are having Trapper's walking animation (i assume trapper is the base model/rig in general?), Deathslinger and michael since the 4.0.0 patch, Wraith since this ptb
I dunno what the devs are doing there. Normally such a thing means they changed something to the unique animations and they are not applied yet/a bit of code fell off
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All killers are currently bugged:
Load-in rigs are messed up, music balance is very off.
The music is still there, but extremely quiet, while ambient sound and sfx are absurdly load (to the points where Huntress' humming now seems to have a 80m-100m radius)
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I have to admit, i'm judging by some leaks here but.... Horse charm and Very-Sus-Jake :3