Mazoobi
Mazoobi
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- Mazoobi
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Comments
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DS needs to have its skill check removed and should be able to work every unhook. Considering its current state, those changes should help it have a bit more fighting power and be usable for all players.
I've already advocated for those changes, but I will keep using my voice.
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Lol true.
I'm not touching survivor unless I have a 4-man squad and I'm having a blast with other games while waiting for OW2's launch.
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I had a similar idea but it was more designed to label the characters and help design ritual/archive challenges:
Stealth: Pig, Freddy, Wraith, Myers, etc.
Mobility: Hillbilly, Blight, Nurse, etc.
Environmental: Trapper, Plague, Pinhead, Pyramid Head, Hag, etc.
Hunter (killers with powers to find survivors faster and/or end chases faster): Huntress, Clown, Doctor, Trickster, etc.
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@AnchorTea said:
make trickster 115 k thanks bye
I don't even think he needs a speed buff.
He's already oppressive in 1v1 and can destroy survivors in certain loops. He needs a rework IMO because it's really not fun for either side.
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Everything in this game apparently.
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Sprint Burst is fine the way it is. It's not the best thing in the game and yes I run SB occasionally on all my builds.
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@Phasmamain said:
I’d say just make it cap at 6 stacks so it is basically capped at 40% like before
I thought they'd do that change to STBTL when I read the attack cooldown buff but oh well :p
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072142#Comment_3072142
I've gotten flak for using soul guard supposedly it's a crutch perk noobs use
Oh dear.
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You can run anything in this game and you'll still be judged.
I will never forget the time a killer got mad at me because my Flip-Flop allowed me to escape a match once.
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There are better alternatives now tbh.
I've always found Surge/Jolt more appealing than Pop and since S/J got buffed, you can try it out or even try the new Eruption.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071988#Comment_3071988
Had a nurse eat my decisive and was instantly downed because I didn't have enough time to go anywhere
Nurse + New DS = dead.
Hell, it probably doesn't even make a huge difference since it's Nurse anyways.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
Try to use decisive it's pretty pointless now
Oh, don't even get me started with that...
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A chapter with a lot of potential but it went down the well.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3057348#Comment_3057348
Maybe instead, they could prevent that realm from appearing
Could be interesting.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065719#Comment_3065719
I always think about the times I was new. It was amazing and I want those days back.
I remember when I saw the Urban Evasion buff that increased the speed from 50 to 100% and I thought it was the best perk ever...
ahh good old times.
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Idk why spiderman was the first thing to come to mind when I saw this, but sure I'll be down. Rewards are cool anyway.
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It would be unfair if being healed from another player would count since randoms would do whatever they want sometimes and I don't think people would want a 1-second heal to de-activate their perk.
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It's better than nothing and I've always found it weird that 8k was the max capacity for a category. It feels so much better that they rounded it to 10k.
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@Satelit said:
The skillchecks purpose and only purpose is to make it unaccessible to new players,who also play where most hardcore tunnels are.
The stun is a guarantee against any competent player.I genuinely can't remember the last time I missed my DS and this perk is in all my builds.
Your first point supports why the skill check should be removed or adjusted for all players.
Also, I'd like to add that console players do exist so even with experience, the platform can backfire your chance of hitting the skill check. I currently have 4688 hours on xbox and hitting that skill check is not as consistent as people think.
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@cannonballB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3064048#Comment_3064048
Still no.
Specifically - "That's been your entire sense of reasoning. I'm sure you haven't fully grasped the situation that the perk is in right now. DS could be bent for that "rule" because of its nerfs and limitations."
You say right here "could be bent", which means even you know there's not really any reason to do so other than "perk was nerfed too hard". That was the literal point.
Alrighty, I'll give you that one.
Sure I'm biased; I like DS a lot. Why? Because it's a solid "solution" to the tunneling issue which the community should be damn well aware of at this point. Why do you think there was an uproar when DS and Self-Care were nerfed? Two perks that were nerfed just because they were considered meta. And yes, they were indeed "nerfed too hard".
If BHVR wants to stubbornly continue their wacky logic to adjust the game despite core issues still existing then of course people such as myself will be upset. Sure, let's nerf the best answer to tunneling and move it to Off the Record... what?
Anyways, I'm pretty sure I made my point(s) very clear to the public which thankfully got enough attention. I wish to no longer repeat myself.
EDIT: Just because it was BHVR's point to nerf DS & Self Care hard bc they were meta doesn't make it a good idea. The only nerf that was fine for DS was the end-game collapse interaction but that's why these proposals are to help the perk gain some ground again.
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@cannonballB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060233#Comment_3060233
I've already explained myself. Second chance perks are second chance. Not second and third chance.
I'm quite straightforward in this. Nothing you've said means that DS should be changed. The reason why the changes to killer are happening is because they needed to be buffed. There's nothing at all that says survivors need to be changed to be "compensated" because killers are being buffed. Just because you don't like that killers are getting stronger doesn't mean they have to do anything to survivors to change them.
The entire premise of your/these changes to DS is to make it more "fair" since killers get all these buffs. But you've not actually provided any reason other than "well killers get buffs so survivors should automatically get buffs". No. That's not how that works. Killers are getting buffed for a reason. That reason doesn't mean we then need to buff survivors. At all, in fact.
Oh and to be clear, I have well over 2200 hours, and the vast majority is survivor, not killer, tho I do have my killer faves. So this isn't some new rando killer main who's just whining. I know my #########.
These changes are based on the new intentions for the perk. Never once did I say in OP that these changes are to compensate for the new killer buffs. Reread my thread.
Your whole premise is "DS is a second chance perk therefore it must follow this made-up rule that it can only work once". That's been your entire sense of reasoning. I'm sure you haven't fully grasped the situation that the perk is in right now. DS could be bent for that "rule" because of its nerfs and limitations. DS does not have a good fighting chance in the upcoming patch and it looks like reckless tunneling could be done so much easier. It appears you're okay with that so I shouldn't really be engaging with you any further because I'm trying to propose really good ideas, not force people to change their minds.
I have well over 4600 hours with a good fair balance between both roles so I also know what I'm talking about.
I'd like to note that these changes wouldn't even make the perk busted or OP in any way, it'd just make the perk consistent for all players and really emphasize it's job.
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@cannonballB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059688#Comment_3059688
No it doesn't. Simple as.
Ok then explain yourself because you really haven't been doing that.
Based on what you've been saying, a survivor who can't provide progress for the team shouldn't be able to punish killers multiple times who intentionally tunnel them despite there being ways to go around the perk... *news flash* just don't tunnel and DS is non-existent.
If you need help understanding my point, then read all of the others who agree with me because there's a lot of sense of reasoning for why we are demanding these changes.
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@cannonballB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058325#Comment_3058325
That's not a good enough reason for it to be able to be used twice. Second chance perks aren't for third chances, even if the problem isn't you.
In DS' case, it has enough reasons to work twice now. It's not because people want a free escape, it's because killers will know that those who used DS are easy tunneling targets. Once you stab the killer, they have no reason to go after the unhooker because the killer knows that the DS has been used thus being counterintuitive to its goal of being an anti-tunneling perk.
It's an avoidable perk unless you intentionally tunnel. A killer needs to put in the effort for DS to work anyway so they should always be affected by the perk even if its classified as a second chance perk.
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@cannonballB said:
I like the first suggestion a lot, actually. Not a fan of the second at all. Second chance perks shouldn't give third chances.
It's a "second chance" perk that has enough deactivation conditions to warrant itself to be used twice. There are ways to circumvent DS so the killer is basically allowing survivors to have a second or third chance by intentionally tunneling.
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I thought they did?
Didn't the new patch say that the range limit was gone meaning that the perk allows you to technically see scratch marks across the map thus allowing you to see the killer's aura whenever someone is hit? Or did I misunderstand the patch?
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I was quite surprised they touched Inner Focus.
That buff means the killer's aura can be read from anywhere on the map so that's actually really good.
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Map offerings should just go entirely.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055835#Comment_3055835
How is two uses OP? The killer already gets notified when DS procs, so would only be punished for reckless, hardcore tunneling the second time. We’re talking about a DS that now deactivates after 60 seconds or progressing the game - whichever comes first.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055870#Comment_3055870
Nah, I hope not. The end game change is fair, but it definitely needs more bite to make up for it. Also agree with others on removing the skill check. It has enough deactivation conditions as it is, and originates from a time the perk could be used on any carry.
Right! It definitely needs a bit more bite now because I really don't think it deserves to be in a trash bin. The two mentioned proposals could help with that if BHVR ever considered them or notices this thread.
Thanks for understanding too.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055524#Comment_3055524
Killers usually tunnel the survivor that stabbed them after the second unhook so it wouldn't make a difference if killers decided to hard camp them anyway.
Sometimes I watch streamers, and I get really annoyed when I see them do this:
Match 1, they get stabbed by DS:
streamer: You used your DS, now I can tunnel you out!
Match 2, they pick someone up and don't get stabbed by DS:
streamer: Well, if you didn't want to get tunneled out you should've brought DS.
At least if DS activates twice, the first scenario will require more time expended by the killer. Either they hard camp the hook for 60 seconds, or they chase the survivor down again and either eat a 2nd DS or wait another 60 seconds before putting the survivor back on the hook.
I don't have extreme feelings about DS activating twice, that's just an observation.
This next part is for everyone who thinks DS needs a tiny skill check:
I can't help but feel really spurned by BHVR at all the times I go back on the hook because I don't have DS. I didn't not bring DS because I wanted to be tunneled out. I didn't bring DS because BHVR ported DbD to console without the proper follow-through. There's nothing that can be done about controller users being easier targets, but not having access to DS to help us when we are targeted Just. Freaking. Sucks. Anyone who thinks the tiny skill check is fine does not understand how double-fudged some console players are.
It doesn't just screw us over, either, it screws over the entire team. Everyone who plays survivor should keep that in mind. We can't hug objects as well in chases and we can't look behind us as easily. We know we go down quicker and a lot of us can't run DS to buy a little more time, but your queues are often longer if you turn off cross-play to avoid us, and in the future turning off cross-play will also disable the BP bonus that's replacing BBQ/WGLF.
Maybe OTR will go live in its ridiculously OP state, in which case DS won't be as valuable, though I might continue to complain about this skill check for the simple fact that the game should work the same across all platforms whether or not the perk is meta.
That's an observation I've noticed too! It's such a rinse and repeat process during killer streams. It gets infuriating because whenever I rewatch a streamer's stream after facing them, they just boast how my teammates don't have DS and know that they are easy targets for tunneling.
I 100% support your console rant because it's so true! I have experience in the game, but the experience can only go so far if my platform wants to fudge me up at times. I wanted to save money for a PC but it's really hard during these times especially while I'm in college.
@TheSubstitute said:
I'm 100% in agreement with DS getting two uses per match and getting rid of the skill checks with DS deactivating in end game. If someone 59 second DS's me they just wasted close to a minute to stun me for a few seconds; thus taking the survivor out of doing anything to help their team win for the majority of it.
BHVR also wants to disincentivize tunneling and camping and two uses would help. If you're worried about it, slug the survivor and chase the unhooker. That way, three sets of hands are for sure off gens (one doing a pick up, one slugged and one in chase).
That way, it's a more satisfying gaming experience for everyone and BHVR's job is to make the game entertaining for everyone; not just the people in one of the roles.
Thank you and exactly!
DS's limitations prevent survivors from doing anything productive and there are still effective ways to counter DS.
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@Ksekwlothreftis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055524#Comment_3055524
Despite the irony around it, have u failed to notice this update is a "meta shake up"? They gutted every meta perk and replaced them with others. U are asking for a nerfed meta perk to get even more meta while in the same time have another soon to be meta perk stack with it. Why are ppl allowed to post such dumb ideas with no basis on reality? Like ######### man u want to get chased, get hit, use dh, get downed, get hooked and unhooked, have bt, have otr, have ds, use otr, use dh, get downed, use ds, and then get downed again and then repeat the same exact sequence 1 more time. Not even factoring bodyblocking and any loops u choose to use. How can u see this massive time waste for killer and say, Oh yes lad that seems fair and totally not broken. Fcking daydreamers out here
No I have not failed to see that this upcoming update is a meta shake-up. I am fully aware of their plans but that doesn't mean all of their ideas are good.
It seems like you have failed to see why people want these specific buffs for DS. Have you ever wondered WHY people ran DS to begin with and FYI this ain't a "dumb idea" as you claim lol. Your example proves what tunnelers deserve which is the point of the perk.
@lemonsway said:
Players really are against skillcheks huh!? First get rid of Ruin for punishing people who HATE skillchecks, now people want DS to be autoamtic cause skillchecks bruh... Yeah just make everything automatic. next you want no Skillchecks vs Jigsaw boxes or Madness, then no skillchecks when healing or when using BNPs so that all you do is hold M1 and nothing else...
This is about DS. Educate yourself on why people want the skillcheck removed or changed.
Edit: Typo
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@XombieRocker said:
Remove the skill check? Sure!
Activate 2 times in a match? No!
If anything, it would probably just make the killer hard camp you on second hook if they saw you use it after the first hook.
Killers usually tunnel the survivor that stabbed them after the second unhook so it wouldn't make a difference if killers decided to hard camp them anyway.
@ACleverName4Me said:
As a console player I agree the frame is bad but everyone forgets that DS use to be 3 seconds however it was made longer to counter enduring. Enduring then was changed to only work with pallets leaving the 5 second stun for years. The devs are just returning DS to the orginal timer. Also no you shouldn't get two free escapes. 1 is enough, do what you can with that. You are going to get a free borrowed time and many people will still run the orginal perk for even a longer duration so you can most certainly get to a safe zone.
You do realize why people want it to be used twice right? It doesn't allow survivors to progress the game until that timer wears off and they've already made it useless at end-game (which is understandable) therefore, people are asking for changes to make it more appealing because Off the Record is looking really promising right now.
Killers shouldn't be scared of it being used more than once unless that killer wants to be stabbed twice. It's supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030516#Comment_3030516
The skill check exists because it is not meant to be guaranteed. You are intended to have the ability to mess up and miss, and thus not get it.
That may be the intention, but an intention is not a justification. You can intentionally make a bad decision, but that doesn't make it -not- a bad decision. An additional hindrance here is that there can be errors that are outside the player's control that cause this extremely conditional perk to inadvertently shut down. I think I've seen multiple complaints about DS being unfairly harder to use on Console due to framedrops and lagspikes.
I do think the skill check should stay, but it should be changed to 100% of the skill check bar, so that it essentially becomes unmissable. The reason it should stay is so that the survivor has a clear visual indicator of the time they have to use the perk, before it becomes inaccessible until they're next picked up.
I don't know why I barely got to read this, but I agree. There are extra hindrances that just make the perk not convenient for some players just like you already mentioned.
I wouldn't mind the skill check being 100% of the bar either. I guess that's another way of circumventing its skill check issue for inexperienced players or those on console. It would just make the perk a lot more convenient considering its upcoming nerfs.
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Biomedical Analysis:
Years of toying with the science of medicine and anatomy has taught you a new way to
approach those about to endure your care.
Unhooking or rescuing a survivor from the ground instantly fills their health bar by
15/20/25%.
Affected survivors also gain the ability to self-heal at 50% speed for the next 30 seconds.
“Do you feel the strength running through your veins?” - Mira
Biotic Drainage:
You’ll let those who interfere be a test subject to your new innovations.
After stunning the killer by any means, your health bar is instantly healed by 30%.
Doing so also grants a token up to a maximum of 3/4/5. Each token in your possession
reduces your maximum health bar capacity by 2%.
If affected by the hemorrhaged status effect, health depletion will be halted for 30
seconds upon receiving health. This grace period resets whenever health is received.
“So this is what it feels like. How intriguing.” - Mira
Enigma:
You’ll demonstrate the true potential of your work.
After healing others for a total of one health state, press the
ACTIVATE ABILITY BUTTON while repairing a generator to transfuse the generator
into a bio-engineered medical station for 35/40/45 seconds.
Affected generators will be revealed in a yellow aura to all survivors and heal injured
survivors by 1% for every second they continue to work on it.
The effect will wear off if the generator is kicked by the killer.
“Tell me how this feels!” - Mira
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Just the ego and desire of wanting this game to be a bully-simulator.
I've always ignored these players whether it be survivor or killer. I'm not going to feed them the attention they want.
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So, Artist?
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I've been playing plague a lot recently and she's pretty fun.
Everyone running DH still ticks me off and I end up playing plague M1 most of the round so its eh-
Regarding your question, seeing the scoreboard at the end is fun because 90% of the survivors bring either good medkits, COH, or Iron Will.
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I'm hoping for a new LGBTQ+ character instead :)
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Wasn't a joke, but go ahead.
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@ukenicky said:
I really don't see how removing the skill check from DS would be problematic. It would still need a button press so you can control when to use it.
If people really are so against this then just make the skill check zone bigger.
I play on pc and hit it just fine but I feel bad for console players who seem to have problems with hitting it consistently.
I don't see how it would be problematic either. I'm assuming killer mains want the chance of people missing the skillcheck a thing to make the perk weaker as if the perk wasn't beaten up already.
@FatallyIconic said:
Interesting to see some people in this thread who are against all of these suggested changes to DS. Even after the stun nerf, endgame collapse nerf, and we all know it disables after doing, well, anything but running. Almost seems like they rely on tunnelling every game to get kills... Funny that.
Exactly. I have no idea why these suggestions would be seen as unnecessary. It's baffling considering its current state rn and WHY people run it.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
I agree with the skillcheck it's not needed for a 3 seconds stun, it's only 1 more second than a pallet stun if I'm not mistaken it's really weak. But it should probably only work once, 2 times might be OP if you stack it with OTR ?
If a survivor is using two perk slots against tunneling and the killer insists on going through with it, then it's fair enough.
Also if the killer is stunned once, they should know that the survivor has DS. Using the first stun as a warning assuming the perk can be used twice.
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@Murgleïs said:
The point was to nerf it not buff it so it’s not meta anymore.
These suggestions are changes the perk needed for a while now. Yeah it got nerfed, but it REALLY needs these suggestions if it wants a chance to not be in the dumpster pile.
The devs said that they know the issue of tunneling yet they decided to nerf one of the best "remedies" to the issue.
@legacycolt said:
I would be down to have auto-DS after every unhook. Would make it a true anti tunnel perk.
Ever since the conditions nerf to it a while back, DS after every unhook should've been considered. Now it's more necessary than ever.
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I feel like it should de-activate after a set amount of time after being hit.
Upon being hit, the perk de-activates after 20/25/30 upon losing a health state.
Something like that.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030979#Comment_3030979
^ This.
I'm on Switch. Running DS isn't even an option. (I mean, technically it's an option, because I made the mistake of unlocking the teachable thinking I could use it to help with being tunneled out. Silly me. All DS has done is waste a stupid amount of BP in Bloodwebs as I'm forced to buy it. I'd like my BP back, please.) There is no reason for a tiny skill check. A quicktime event that requires swiftly pressing a button but without frame-precision timing would be fine. A large Autodidact-like skill check would be okay, too; no worries, killers, Switch players would still miss it sometimes given the performance problems, but at least we'd have a chance at hitting it. A reasonable chance is what we want.
I have a friend who plays on the switch and I've heard that the performance isn't smooth. She'll sometimes complain about regular skill checks bc her frames drop really hard. I don't even want to imagine trying to land DS on the switch.
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@Pepsidot said:
There's no reason it should have a skillcheck. The players missing the skillcheck are the ones that need it the most - the ones lagging or... inexperienced players.
Exactly. As if this game had enough skill checks already.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030559#Comment_3030559
It is not, nor was ever intended to be anti-tunnel. That is literally why it only works once. Undoing a down + entire chase is absurdly powerful.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030625#Comment_3030625
Eating the DS in the first place means you wasted the entire chase that you now have to redo. Against good survivors, that is an extremely big risk a killer cannot afford to take recklessly, which is why slugging is another strategy used to deal with that so someone has to come pick them up while you chase someone else. This is what discouraging reckless tunneling is. A killer cannot just randomly choose to eat it without getting punished hard if the survivors are playing well. Survivors not playing well enough to take advantage of it does not make the perk weak. Yes, knowing the survivor no longer has it means they can tunnel them. Which still requires eating it in the first place, which doing is extremely risky against good survivors.
DS working twice would be beyond busted.
Then killers shouldn't be eating DS so carelessly. It's not like survivors that got unhooked will start doing anything productive for the team until that timer wears off. Why waste time hunting someone who won't provide progress for the team? Don't shoot yourself in the foot now.
If DS worked twice then it's the killer's fault for being stabbed AGAIN by the same person. They already got a warning the first time so if they insist on tunneling, that killer deserved it. Hell, even OhTofu a killer main suggested the same thing and I'm not one to shove well-known content creators' words down my throat.
The stun got nerfed, it cant be used endgame, and killers got a load of general improvements to help them... this patch speaks for itself.
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@GingerBeard said:
I already advocated for the removal of the skill check since the last nerf, and now with the upcoming changes it truly is time for it to go. It would just be a QOL change for most of us anyways, but would still be a buff for the newer players.
Right! The skill check stayed long enough so it can go now. Bye bye!
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030541#Comment_3030541
QoL is different from an outright buff like making it usable a second time. QoL would be making the skillcheck appear later on the turn so early lag spike doesn't make you miss. I'm fine with skillchecks on it being removed personally, despite it being unnecessary. I do not support it being usable twice, because that goes against the entire point. You are not meant to have a counter.
It doesn't disincentivize killers from reckless tunneling. If I hit the killer with it, they'll know that I don't have it thus INCENTIVIZING tunneling.
This doesn't help with the 3-sec stun nerf. Mind you, players were already asking for it to work twice even when it was 5 seconds.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030507#Comment_3030507
The skill check exists because it is not meant to be guaranteed. You are intended to have the ability to mess up and miss, and thus not get it.
It is once per game, because it is not meant to stop or counter tunneling. It is meant to be a one-time disincentive to discourage reckless tunneling. Against good survivors, it will be punished hard already, as you have just lost your down and must do an entirely new chase to get them again. In which time the survivors will crank out gens against you. And the time you spent chasing for the down up till now will have been rendered mostly useless. It does not need a buff.
It does not work in endgame because expecting the killer to not tunnel in endgame is nonsensical.
It's outclassed by Off The Record so just remove the skill check because as I already said, it's not reliable for SOME players and no it's not a skill issue before you assume. If the game won't let me use it then killers will just moan when other perks get used more.
BHVR just buffed killers and nerfed the DS stun. I understand it not being available end-game but the perk is now way too niche. My proposal is based on BHVR's new intentions for the perk. If they want to nerf the stun and reduce its availability thus making it less appealing, then give it the QOL it should have.
@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030514#Comment_3030514
5 seconds was only added because Enduring affected it. They did say that they would revert it should they remove that ability of Enduring. They did the latter, but broke the promise on the former. Now they finally came through.
@OP Absolutely not. DS is and always has been a plague to this game. If a majority of my fellow survivor players lament that Nurse is a mistake, I say DS is a mistake.
If you think DS is a plague to the game considering all of the nerfs it has received, idk what to tell you buddy.
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@SuzuKR said:
Or just revert it to 5s and not make either of those unnecessary changes.
Yeah I don't think BHVR wants to but either way, why would those changes be unnecessary? I already gave reasons for those ideas.