MaTtRoSiTy
MaTtRoSiTy
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I do think his major flaw is that his early game is painfully slow, so maybe a moderate base kit increase to his first tier up would be a good change. His slow early game and the emblem system make getting his adept pretty painful outside of just after rank reset.
I love Myers regardless and he is one of my most played killers and despite his slow start I still seem to snowball with him and I honestly cant remember the last time I lost a match with him (though I most definitely have lol).
I kind of agree with the earlier comment about him being a meme killer and not needing much change.
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Try not to take it too hard, you will get jerks in the game so as frustrating as it is, just try to forget it and don't let it ruin your game.
There are a lot of nice people who play the game normally without being toxic too, it is just that we tend to remember the toxic/unpleasant ones more
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300052#Comment_3300052
While we would like something like this, we might want to add something that encourages safer saves or at least take agro for the unhooked. Most times when we tunnel, it's due to unhooking in my tr (or line of sight) then leaving them to our lack of mercy. True we CAN go for the unhooker who ran to super safe zone, but we want the easy prey who ran to the dead zone injured.
I think most reasonable people will understand a killer having little option when someone unhooks in their TR then stealths away to leave the poor sod who just got unhooked to their fate.
But of course what we are seeing becoming very common is killers who will stay by the hook and go out of their way to target the person who just got off hook, even if there is an injured and viable target in the person who unhooked.
All that aside, I certainly don't want to see any solution that can be abused or used offensively as DS from 2 reworks back was
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
I...made an entire post, then edited it to fix some typos, and it disappeared?
With all due respect, if it was in response to me I was not going to read it anyway. I think we know where the other stands so at this point it is probably better to just agree to disagree and leave it at that
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298330#Comment_3298330
Give killers a basekit mini BBQ that shows one survivor AND give them a speedboost as long as they move in the general direction of that survivor and aren't in any chase. The beauty of the old BBQ was that everyone had it equipped for the BP bonus and, as if by accident, the main portion of its effect showed killers all kinds of opportunities and thus peeled them away from the hook.
The speed boost would be needed to sweeten the deal of chasing after some survivor, and to give non-mobility M1 killers an opportunity to do so without shooting themselves in the foot.
In the same stroke, BHVR could do something to punish tunneling, like if you tunnel someone and try to hook them within 45s of them getting off the hook there is a 33% chance that The Entity itself sabotages a hook. Not totally invalidating it, but enough to make going for someone else the correct choice.
Of the carrot and the whip, the first one is the more effective one, and people will react much more favorable to it, while the whip will often make them stubbornly stay in their old ways, just to "stick it to them!".
Yeah I am all for ideas like this.
Contrary to how it may appear to some, I am not here to just 'stick it' to killers, I just want to see the game be less of a miserable experience than it is at present.
I think there needs to be a big deterrent to tunnelling people out of the game but I am totally for a carrot and stick approach.
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She has become my main killer of late and while I definitely think she is underrated I don't think she is that strong either.
But she is a lot of fun to play and I like going against her so long as they aren't doing the stupid condemned thing. For the record, I never resort to playing like that
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300036#Comment_3300036
Once again; you're ignoring everything to claim the ONLY reason people tunnel is to 'ruin fun' and call it 'unnecessary'.
Why is it people whining about tunneling cannot admit that the Killer is PLAYING TO WIN, just like Survivors? Oh, right; because it invalidates their entire 'Tunneling is unnecessary & only trolls do it' argument.
What you fail to realize, or ignore to make your own bad faith argument, is that Killers are ALSO human beings who want to have fun & want to win. But apparently Survivor fun comes first, so Killers should be forced to stop doing anything Survivors don't like (Like tunneling, slugging, and camping).
Why don't we take the logic one step further? Survivors don't like Doctor. Or Nurse. Or Legion. They also don't like NoED and other 'crutch' perks and Killers. So why not let Survivors pick who the Killer uses & what perks they use? I mean, since Survivor 'fun' is so paramount that Killers need player agency removed in-match by punishing them for trying to win...sorry, for 'tunneling'.
So why not just let Survivors pick who the Killer can USE, since they're already deciding they are the authority in what the Killer can DO?
Bet that would make all the Survivors happy. They'd finally have their 'fun'.
Okay so you are not understanding and clearly come from a position of zero empathy for others.
To reiterate in my final response - as killer you are in a position you can deny your opponent the ability to play the game, this is not necessary as I win most of my matches not resorting to these tactics. You are excusing disregard for others as if you have no alternative but this is just excusing either a lack of skill, a lack of empathy, or both.
Survivors are defenceless against this, so the game should make it so tunnelling people out of the game is so detrimental it isn't worth doing.
You don't have to do this to win, you just choose to.
Anyway, you clearly do not understand this so there is little point replying further. However clearly the community has had enough and the declining survivor numbers in the queue suggest something drastically needs to change. So hopefully you will be forced to play in an empathetic way, even if you lack any empathy.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300028#Comment_3300028
No, it's not 'as simple as that' because you're ignoring that you're asking the Killer to be punished for playing optimally & trying to win. You're literally making the game harder for one side based on the whining of their opponents.
You're boiling it down to 'Survivors not having fun, so change it' while ignoring the Killer aspect and how the Killer is ALSO trying to win. The complaint is 'Survivor not having fun, so make the game harder for Killers. No one cares about their fun.'
I also don't care what you play or how. How you play has no bearing on how others play, and the game should not be balanced around how you play, or how you think every other Killer should play.
I will say it again, since people seem to ignore this: Saying "Punish Killers for the vague accusation of 'tunneling'." is nothing more than saying "Make it harder for Killers to win by imposing rules based on Survivor's subjective ideas of 'fun."
Except you are conducting yourself in an unnecessary way that ruins the experience for your opponent.
The fact you would even attempt to argue that being tunnelled out of the game is not objectively unfun shows a bad faith argument. I mean, are you suggesting people subjectively enjoy being tunnelled out of the game lmao?!
The problem is people will conduct themselves in ways that ruin the experience for others and as killer you are in a unique position to do this where your opponent is powerless to do anything about it. This needs to be addressed and clearly there is a demand for more deterrents for tunnelling people out of the game.
You have a complete disregard for the other humans in the game you are playing. You can have no empathy but the game should not facilitate or even reward this. Period.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300004#Comment_3300004
'Unfun' is subjective. On top to that; no they should not be punished because they made you sad. To work back around to my Overwatch statement; That would be like me saying 'Anyone playing Widowmaker should be punished because sniping is an unfun tactic for me. I don't get to play if I'm sniped'.
You are, 100%, telling people how to play. You are saying Killers need to be punished or have their hands tied with mechanics that force them to play sub-optimally because you, personally, don't like tunneling. That is telling people they can't tunnel because of your subjective opinion. That is telling people how to play.
I mean, how DARE your opponent remove the weakest link to slow down gen speeds! Don't they know that Survivors don't like being removed from the game!? Why don't the devs just remove killing, because Survivors want to have FUN, and who cares if the Killer is not having fun by being forced to play catch-up the entire match because Survivors don't want to bumped out! Only Survivor fun matters!
If you can't accept your opponent trying to win within the rules of the game; Don't play PvP games. They're clearly not your cup of tea if you need to demand the devs invent punishments and rules to control how your opponent plays to make you happy. It's like saying 'People who play Eddie Gordo in Tekken are button mashers. This is not fun and is skillless. People who play Eddie Gordo should be blocked from playing ranked. I'm not trying to tell people how to play, but they are ruining the fun for others.'
News flash: Losing is not as fun as winning. Making punishments based on 'what about MY fun?' is nothing more than saying 'Make it easier for me to win/Make it harder for my opponent to win.'
Except being tunnelled out of the game is objectively unfun, this isn't even a debate at this point.
The problem is the game makes this a viable tactic and those who lack skill or have no empathy for the other side can do this without any penalty. It really is as simple as that.
I play a lot of killer and I never tunnel or camp yet I still win 90% of my matches, so I don't buy these tales of woe from people who try to justify knowingly making the match miserable for others to suit themselves.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299843#Comment_3299843
Bad excuse. By that logic, I can tell people not to pick Widowmaker in Overwatch 2 because being sniped without being able to shoot back ruins my experience. Your excuse is 'something, something, what about my fun?'.
Your entitled to play the game within the rules of the game.
You're entitled to play a game without people cheating or insulting or threatening you.
You are Not entitled to tell your opponent they can't kill you because you don't want to lose yet.
You're not entitled to demand your opponent stop trying to win because losing makes you sad.
You are not entitled to play the game for an arbitrary length of time.
See you can say that all you want but at the end of the day you are playing against other humans and if you don't consider how you interact with them, don't complain at all if they decide they do not want to stay in that match with you and you can't get a normal game.
I am not actually telling you how to play, what I am proposing is that people who do engage in very unfun tactics that ruin the game for others should suffer heavy penalties for engaging in those tactics. The game currently makes it far too easy for people to ruin matches for others and this needs to be changed.
Anyone who has been repeatedly tunnelled out of the game knows how much this ruins the experience, so if people are aware of the misery their tactics inflict on others and still do it, then the devs need to step in and create deterrents.
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The problem is a balancing act between punishing people enough to deter them and harming the queues.
The fact is, most people who DC still play the vast majority of their matches (otherwise they would be timed out forever) so banning them for too long just takes them out of the pool of players for matchmaking.
If you are too harsh and time people out too long, they will just go and play another game and if the penalties are too much they will probably end up not returning.
Besides that, they can just yeet out of the match on first hook instead so this wont achieve much anyway.
I think BHVR could perhaps run a survey to find out WHY people are leaving matches and try to identify common frustrations.
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I have nothing but respect for killers who play fair in the current meta and do not camp or tunnel off hook, particularly when the map is really rough for them and/or they are struggling a bit.
Shows a lot of character to still not resort to playing in a scummy way when you are on the back foot and I always try to remember to give them props post match
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Hopefully a complete redesign and nothing less.
The reality is the best way to play them is incredibly unfun (slug, camp, slug and camp some more) and as they are I am grateful I never see them as every Twins match is just absolute misery that I just want out of the second I hear they are the killer.
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No, I got gens to do and I pretty much only play solo queue so chances are I am the only one actually doing a gen too. 'Ain't nobody got time fo' dat'
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I finally got it!
Took about 10 hours which is pretty good going and I think I just got a really rough start too. But I have been pretty fortunate today as map RNG has been quite survivor sided and team mates have been really decent for a change.
I do recommend playing very passively and selfish though, for anyone stuck on this achievement
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@usesPython said:
As someone who regularly plays like this
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DTWL4DIWJR4K/image.png
there's three main skills I've found that need to be up to par with people running perks in order to have a normal escape rate:
- Your looping skills need to be on the same level as someone bringing exhaustion perks, Windows of Opportunity, Resilience, Self Aware, and other such chase perks
- Your awareness skills need to be on the same level as someone bringing Kindred, Bond, Empathy, and other such aura reading perks
- Your gen rush skills need to be on the same level as someone running Prove Thyself and no toolbox, so learn to hit great skill checks
Therefore if you're bringing an item for this challenge I'd argue that the strongest one you can bring is a Skeleton Key (30 charges) with Blood Amber (Shows killers aura within 32 meters, key uses 2 charges/second) and Prayer Beads (+15 charges). The reason for this is that it makes lots of unsafe loops that you'd normally just predrop (e.g. pallet gyms) or get hit at (LT walls) playable with the aura reading.
Your awareness of what your team is doing will come from two (sometimes three) sources:
- Seeing or hearing your teammates or signs of their presence (e.g. blood, generator sounds, injured noises, etc.)
- Auras when you or your teammates go down
- Your team running aura perks such as Kindred, Aftercare, Blood Pact, Wiretap, etc.
At the start of the game you will most likely have no idea what your team is doing unless you all spawn together (very bad, advice stays the same in that case). Therefore, your main priority should be to immediately run towards a center gen to decrease the chances of a 3 gen and start doing it. While you're going there pay attention to the sounds of generators being done close by and to pistons moving on far gens, this is where your teammates are and where you should stay away from if you get chased first.
If by some miracle someone is giving a juicer of a chase you should be soloing gens until there's 2 or less gens, then go group up on gens to get them done faster.
Before 10 second Borrowed Time became basekit I would pretty much never unhook, but now if someone is hooked then follow the following checklist:
- If no one else can go for the save and you can (e.g. 3v1, other survivor is getting chased), go unhook
- If you are healthy and the rest of your team is injured, go unhook
- If you are right next to them and your team isn't, go unhook
- If they're about to die on hook and you're not dead on hook, go unhook
- Otherwise, stay on your gen
If the person getting chased runs near your gen and doesn't make it to any loop while they're injured and you're not, go bodyblock for them until they either make it somewhere or you get hit (IMPORTANT: when you get hit you should be using your speed boost to run towards a usable loop but away from your teammate). Afterwards go back to doing gens.
Every time you're not in chase you should be looking around you for usable loops with the following checklist:
- What pallets, windows, and line of sight blockers are near me?
- What areas of the map should I avoid bringing the killer to? (e.g. gens being worked on, people healing under the hook, etc.)
- What areas of the map should I encourage the killer to go to? (e.g. places where all the gens are done, strong structures such as Garden of Joy main building, etc.)
- Which approximate direction is the killer likely to be coming from? (Generally from the last place you saw them, but teleport killers such as Demogorgon or Onryo might be coming from any direction and stealth killers such as Wraith or Ghostface might sneak up behind you)
- Are there any killer perks in play that would make specific loops unusable? (e.g. Bamboozle, Spirit Fury + Enduring, etc.)
- How at risk am I of dying compared to the rest of my team? (If you're healthy at 0 hooks you probably don't want to be dropping god pallets, if you're injured on death hook you should probably be going for the strongest loops and playing safe)
- Knowing all this, towards which loop should I be running to, and which loop should I be chaining after?
- If I get hit in the first loop, is there a better loop I can run to with the speedboost or should I stay in the same loop? (e.g. you'd want to leave an LT but stay in Garden of Joy's main building if you know how to run the loops, you should almost always stay away from tiles you don't know how to run)
Once you're in chase there's also a few things you can change compared to normal looping:
- Accept you will probably go down faster than usual and use this to your advantage
- If you go down, comp corner yourself
- If you know you're getting injured in the next second, immediately start running in a straight line towards either a strong loop if there's no time critical situation your team needs to get done or towards the exact opposite side of the map of the thing that needs to be done (e.g. 3 gen being broken, basement rescues against trapper/hag, etc.)
Bruh... that is quite the detailed response!
Well thankfully I am up to 5 escapes now so at this rate I should have the final 3 done soon.
I found the best tactic so far to be playing very passive and very selfish at end game, so no going back for team mates or hook trading. I will be glad when this is done though as I really don't like playing in this selfish way
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299843#Comment_3299843
That everyone includes the Killer. Who, apparently, needs a laundry list of things they shouldn't do so 'everyone' has fun, no matter how hard it makes the game for them (and how multiple Survivors being the same or just plain bad luck on scratch marks/auras can lead you to the same person anyway).
Sure, there are a ridiculous set of demands some survivors have (remember I play a lot of killer too) and their definitions of 'camping' and 'tunnelling' are patently absurd. Nobody rational is going to consider say an unlucky survivor who keeps running into you or their team mates hiding after unhook so you see nobody but the unhooked survivor as 'tunnelling' in the sense we mean.
Lets not play a semantics game, we all know exactly the tactics I am talking about here.
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@PrincessCalla said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298950#Comment_3298950
This is exactly what happens to me in every. single. match.
I've had team mates try to save me, help, do what they can but killer ignores them for me from the start of the match. Again, I'm not toxic in any way, I don't get it.
Yes and it feels horrible doesn't it?
This is why I absolutely refuse to do this to others - I know how it feels and it makes for miserable matches. My only exceptions are if someone wants to be toxic and tea bag me, spam vault to annoy me and generally be a jerk then I will do all I can to take them out fast.
Sadly with some people it doesn't matter if you are toxic or not, they will just subject you to a miserable experience because they can and this is what myself and many others want to see heavily penalised to the point it isn't worth doing.
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Its just human nature, people do not like the idea that they go outplayed and will react badly to it.
If they feel the need to hit you on hook and carry on like children, consider it a win as clearly they feel so outplayed they need to express it outwardly lol
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This achievement is a real pain and takes a long time to do btw... Even Otz with his nearly 10k hours (I think?) still had not completed it a few days back when he was on stream trying.
People do the same to you with killer though... just try to get the 4x Tombstone achievement for Myers, everyone will just jump in lockers and do their best to deny you this.
Unfortunately people can be pretty mean and putting it in your name/bio will not change that. Some achievements are just a real pain and the only thing you can do is grind away. I have been trying to get the do a gen and escape with zero perks 8 times achievement (Power Moves) and that has been... well, painful
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299843#Comment_3299843
It depends, because sometimes you are only bad at the game because the survivors it throws at you are usually outside your skill level, scummy tactics are all you have to keep up. As an example right now for me the incentve is on 100% killer bonus and when i queue up I will probably have 8 of 10 games against survivors at a much higher skill level than me and if I get 3 or 4 sweaty matches in a row it can be hard to switch gears when I get a lower/even skilled team.
That isnt the case for everyone all the time obviously, but I know for me when matchmaking screws me over I have to do everything in my power to re-even the odds to make it a fair match.
Sure, you obviously have to adjust your aggressiveness to each match and I do exactly this.
But what I am seeing is clearly not this, instead I see killers who just relentlessly pursue one person where anyone with a brain would drop chase... of course most times you will eventually catch any survivor as killer and once they do they hard camp that hook and then hard tunnel them off hook repeatedly until they are dead. It doesn't matter if that chase was stupidly long as their intention is to tunnel that person so hard they cannot play the game at all.
People seem to forget nobody is playing this game under duress and stupid comments like "why should I care about others fun?" show a supremely selfish and ignorant attitude towards other people, let alone a complete lack of any empathy. If you make the game miserable for others, they will not want to play normal matches with you and they will choose to DC or just exit on first hook.
This attitude also hurts the game in the bigger picture as when we allow normalising of ruining matches for others so they cant play (relentlessly tunnelling off hook), these people will eventually just leave DBD altogether as nobody wants to be subjected to this over and over.
Of course we can never compensate for the sociopaths in society who have zero empathy and just want to watch the world burn. But we sure can make sure if they choose to intentionally ruin the fun for others, they pay a massive price for it
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298966#Comment_3298966
Why should it be punished?
Why should the Killer be forced to ignore the weakest link or play sub-optimally? Survivors aren't forced to ignore a 90% gen if the Killer has 0 hooks after 2-3 Gens pop.
So why should the Killer be forced to ignore easy kills? I mean, other than 'something, something, Survivor fun'.
Because you are playing a game with others and everyone is entitled to play the game and have a good experience.
Just being bad at the game is no excuse to deny someone the ability to even play the game by constantly tunnelling them off hook and that should be punished harshly. Being bad at the game is no excuse for tunnelling off hook
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@KingFieldShipper said:
I got this achievement sometime this year in solo q. I kind of brute forced it, just played until I survived - took me maybe a week. But this was shortly before the gen kick meta.
To be honest I think a nice toolbox is your best bet, not a medkit, - maybe a commodious with double charges, or some toolbox with bnp and charges. The most annoying part of this was actually finishing the equivalent of 1 whole generator.
I tried never to take the first chase/be hooked first and played stealthy (which is my personal hell because stealth is boring) then started doing gens. If you notice your team is just dropping like flies - just play super safe - play around bbq or other aura perks as if any killer has them unless you can 100% tell the build otherwise.
As a general rule, splitting up on gens is just solid advice anyways to split pressure - so try to never go on a gen with others.
I have managed to get a couple of escapes being selfish and playing it safe.
I tend to try to split pressure anyway as this is always the best strategy
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@Rulebreaker said:
We wish you luck mate don't burn out.
All we can offer is that aside from the tips above, bringing a hatch offering (key or not) can work in your favor if your willing to go the selfish route. The killer will most likely either slug and guard the hatch area or hook and book it there meaning if your at a door you got a nice head start (or if keys in play, you have confusion in your favor)
Thank you and yeah I have been playing selfish as I tend to be too altruistic but it kept costing me my escapes. Ended up getting two but had to be a bit of a dick team mate lol but have to do it
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They read these discussions and it is pretty clear solo queue and issues like the Eruption gen control meta are a problem. Just don't expect to see much progress until Christmas/NY is done and they are back to work (which is fair enough too) I would guess.
The latest update on statuses for survivors is a good sign, information is critical in a game like DBD and solo queue survs are currently severely lacking it
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Great stuff, solo queue really could do with a little buff.
Hopefully we will see more deterrents for tunnelling off hook in the new year when everyone at BHVR is back from their holidays :)
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@kingcarl2012 said:
There are 3 basic options for this achievement IMO.
1. Just keep playing perkless, Items and offerings can help a bit, eventually you will get it.
2. You can cheese it a bit and play it super safe, you dont need to complete a gen you need to repair the equivalent of 1 full gen, so bring a key and hatch offering get 50% progress on 2 different gens and teammates be damned to get it done fast.
3. Set up/find a SWF of people who want to get the achievement and take turns getting progress with 3 competent people running meta builds and 1perkless and you all know if the mach starts going south everyone knows to get killed away from where hatch spawns and die on hook as fast as possible so the perkless one can get hatch
Yeah I probably need to be selfish and bring a key at this point... I can't be bothered with a SWF so this is probably my only real option. I got 1 escape a few minutes ago, though only through hatch but still counts so I will take it
This challenge is not easy in the current meta
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@HugTheHag said:
I challenged a streamer friend to do this until he escaped once, for a charity event. He's usually quite skittish and a very poor looper.
By insane luck, he was matched against a Michael that didn't manage to kill anyone. Got it first try !
Best 20 bucks spent I guess ! =D
But you have to do it 8 times?
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@Nirgendwohin said:
I wish you the best of luck!
Thank you, I think I need more than luck at this point! My God this is frustrating...
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@Frys_Dog said:
That achievement took me like 4 or 5 days, is just trial and error, at the end you'll get it, just don't lose your mind, take some breaks if you fell like you're burnout and eventually you''ll get there :D
Thank you and yeah I think that is pretty solid advice, I probably need to take a break as this is starting to get depressing
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@Sycamore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298966#Comment_3298966
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298970#Comment_3298970
Which is why I find Resilience so strong. Run the Killer for two gens, and only take one hit. They are in a damned position to decide to drop chase just to chase one of 3 survivors who are not even injured, or let me finish running them the last 3 gens.
Fair enough, I am just not a big fan of Resilience personally, I just don't feel I get enough value from it
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@Vampwire said:
I think what would be better is DS giving a speed boost after stunning the killer. That way you can actually make an escape and the killer isn't stuck in place forever. Right now it's useless because you don't make distance and the old one felt really bad to play against.
Once the fear of DS is back tunneling will stop again. That was the only thing keeping killers from doing it before.
I was thinking even a haste effect yeah and perhaps hide scratchmarks, blood and pain noises for 5 seconds
Oh and I totally agree, there is very obviously no fear of tunnelling as killers can almost guarantee nobody is running DS as the perk is absolute trash. I know BHVR wanted to shake up the meta but previous DH (last version) was there for a good reason.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298966#Comment_3298966
chasing the first survivor until they get a down is, to be fair, also what happens when people start panicking. If a chase takes too long, by the time you've realised that (and especially if you've got a hit, which could still mean two more swings with excellent DH timing and looping to pallets) gens could be about to go or already going. Is breaking off the chase at that point a good idea? Well, if this is indicative, no, any other chase would take longer! Got to stick with it.
I don't tunnel off hook intentionally (I'm not going to waste time and the chance if I can't see a clue where the rescuer went though and the unhookee zooms into my vision though), but I can see how easily you slip into the first part of that.
Sure, that could be the case in some instances but also part or getting good with killer is learning when to drop chase too. Plus I see the same people in game who every time I go against them they do exactly the same thing; chase, hook, camp, tunnel off hook... repeat.
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@Sycamore said:
Picture of me waiting for when players realize the coming DS/DH/OTR meta
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XYJYK741ZCX3/image.png
The amount of free chances, and invulnerability you get from these 3 perks combined is unreal, and on a team - dear god.
You know, it would not be a necessary evil if there were not the lowest common denominator in the form of players who will intentionally tunnel someone out at 5 gens...
I am increasingly seeing a killer tactic of chasing the first survivor they find until they get a down, which they will do even if it takes a stupid amount of time... then they just hard camp that survivor and wait for the unhook so they can hard tunnel them off the hook even if they could easily get a hook trade.
This most definitely should be punished hard
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@Xendritch said:
Or just stop healing at the hook. I feel like that's how most tunneling occurs.
Maybe in some cases but I have previously made a thread asking why some team mates absolutely insist on being healed under the hook, despite it clearly being a bad idea such as with Artist etc. Though the majority of tunnelling I see is the killer hard proxies and then directly goes after the person who gets unhooked no matter if the unhooker takes a hit so they could also be a viable target
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Lol... fair reaction though
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I have been saying this for literally years.... they have made some great changes but the current Eruption based meta desperately needs attention. Though we wont see much until the new year I would say
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If you are expecting an asymmetrical game to ever truly be balanced, you may as well stop playing DBD now as asymmetrical games cannot ever truly be balanced by their inherent nature.
Is SWF strong? Well sure, IF the players are all actually skilled but the majority of the DBD community are casuals with moderate to low skill levels and any competent killer will still destroy the vast majority of SWF's.
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I feel like the biggest issue is the sheer number of very safe to completely safe pallets. I have had matches where survivors just pre-drop every pallet and don't even bother playing them because they got good RNG and can afford to just pre-drop.
Just beware survivors, if you send killers to this map they may not play in the most pleasant manner and kinda understand why
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The thing is, OTR is the best tool against tunneling, but it is not really good. All Anti-Tunnel measures which are somewhat meaningful (this does not include DS, this is a joke at this point) resolve around Endurance. And one Hit after the Unhook and ALL of them are gone - the Basekit-Endurance, potential BT, potential DH, potential OTR. So there need more measures which are Anti-Tunnel, but dont use Endurance.
Reverting the DS-Stun to 5 seconds should be a minimum that should happen. And in fact, it should have increased its Anti-Tunnel capacity once they nerfed it that it cannot be used in Endgame (which was totally fine). Because a DS which deactivates on anything AND is deactivated in Endgame AND is at 5 seconds was nothing anyone complained about. But, as we know, to "change" the Meta, some Perks just got nerfed into Oblivion to make them unattractive to use. DS is one of them.
In the end, current DS grants the Survivor around 7 meters of distance. The Stun is 3 seconds, 1,3 seconds are used for the animation, so 1,7 seconds can be used for distance, which results in around 7 meters. This is barely anything. If I see DS used in games (by other Survivors or against me), the Killer really catches up way too quickly.
IMO DS can be changed to let the Stun Time be depending on the number of Gens left. Number of Gens x 2 seconds = Stun Time. So:
- 5 Gens left --> 10 Second Stun
- 4 Gens left --> 8 Second Stun
- 3 Gens left --> 6 Second Stun
- 2 Gens left --> 4 Second Stun
- 1 Gen left --> 2 second Stun
- 0 Gens left --> deactivated
This would punish a Killer very heavily who wants to tunnel right at the start to turn the game into an easy 3v1 which the Survivor cannot win anymore. But once the Killer needs a Survivor out of the game, because they lost some Gens, DS is not that useful anymore. E.g. at 4 seconds it would be barely stronger than now and with 2 seconds, it would basically be useless.
This would also be in line with what Killers say when they say they HAVE to tunnel. They will be able to do so, when the game gets close for them. But if they try it earlier, there is a harsh penalty for it. (And no Killer HAS to tunnel at 5 Gens and if they get a 10 second Stun because of this, this is completely their own fault)
But yeah, the bare minimum would be to buff DS back to 5 seconds. But, this will not happen, because then people would play DS and the Devs did not "change" the Meta.
I really like this idea, punishing harshly those who will tunnel at say 5 gens when clearly there is no justifiable reason is a necessary evil at this point as far as I am concerned.
The devs probably don't want to revert back to 5 seconds as you say but at the very least they need to address the endurance issue with OTR so a tunnelling killer can still be punished with DH should they choose to pursue the hard tunnel off hook.
Something needs to change, I know that much...
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@Quizzy said:
I believe they should make the haste effect permanent when off the hook until you do a conspicuous action. That way you at least have a chance to run the killer if they hard tunnel you.
@Ghoste said:
Maybe if they put DS to 5 seconds Killers might actually consider not tunneling. OTR is easily countered by hitting off hook. And I can't use Dead Hard with it. Cool.
I agree with both of these suggestions, tunnelling off hook needs to be heavily discouraged to the point it is so not worth it people stop doing this in public matches.
I understand that killer matches can be tough, I just had two of my own that were rough (no kills first, 2x for second with safety pip only) but I still win 90% of my matches without tunnelling or camping. There is no excuse really and I think it should rightly be punished to discourage it
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@Katzengott said:
It basicly depends where you hit the DS. If there's a save pallet near (remember, you get like 15-20m distance after the stun), DS can be still strong. Windows really helps here.
Oh of course, which is why I used the phrase "in almost every situation" as there will be those rare occasions where you do get value. But they are rare as you usually don't go down in a perfectly convenient location
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Problem is, Knight has an incredibly un-interactive and unfun design at his core, so buffing him will just increase his pick rate and I definitely don't want to see that (I am sure I am not alone in that).
The Knights I see who actually use his anti loop ability effectively seem to do pretty well against the average solo queue lobby. Just my personal opinion but buffing really unfun killers is not a great idea, keep their pick rate low as a way of mitigating the mistake of their existence lol
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@ByeByeQ said:
DS is currently being used as an offensive perk to "recharge" Dead Hard through it's ability to remove the Deep Wound status. I find it always paired with Dead Hard and usually the survivor does every toxic thing to actually try to get the killer to tunnel them and also they stack other second chance perks like Off the Record and Adrenaline. Buffing DS would buff these players.
DS needs to be reworked if it is actually meant to be used as an anti-tunneling perk.
Fair point but I think most people are just casuals who want to play the game and not be tunnelled off hook. I don't care if other changes are added but there really needs to be more of a disincentive for tunnelling off hook. I understand it is a valid tactic but it is also a very nasty one that sucks the fun out of matches and creates a whole bunch of negativity and toxicity DBD really doesn't need
Edit: I think the changes did make it anti tunnelling though, it was definitely abused before with survivors doing gens in your face etc... but they sorted that out imo
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
They made the problem and sold the solution with OTR.
I mean, hey, they DID shake up the meta-- now you don't use DS, because they just gave you something that works better and works twice.
The powered gates stipulation was all they needed. 5 seconds and some killers might actually notice when they get hit by it.
Yeah I agree but even then OTR doesn't seem to deter tunnelling at present but if the threat of DS returned I think it would as it would be just too much hassle to intentionally tunnel people off hook. However at present the chances someone is running DS are pretty slim as the perk is essentially useless and not worth it
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@Ghoste said:
Heck, even if you bring a sweaty build, you can easily lose due to inefficient teammates. People just don't get that every second spent doing totems and chests is a second of a gen not done. I'll run Bond or Kindred and just see people crouching around, booning when our team is dying, etc. It's so frustrating. No wonder Killer is more popular now - you don't have to deal with useless teammates.
This is the problem with the current gen regression meta - you absolutely MUST be efficient and as Hens333 often says, efficient DBD is boring DBD.
I like matches where I can open a chest, cleanse a totem and generally piss around a bit but with the current meta you absolutely have to be sitting on gens every spare second you have. So I am forced into this very rigid playstyle to compensate and for this reason I often get hit with Eruption multiple times... so I am being punished for the essential duty of being efficient.
Did anyone see Otz trying to do his RPD escape challenge in solo queue yesterday? It really was a great example of current solo queue and in the end he gave up and got his own SWF together so he could actually do his achievement
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They ruined Spine Chill and now there is little reason to use it imo... Not sure why they changed it from how it was but as you can see from old videos it was quite useful. The only downside was it could be a crutch for immersed players in that it stopped you from gaining real game sense as it kinda did a lot of the work for you
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Your post shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the importance of time in DBD. Having multiple survivors unable to do anything multiple times in a match is absolutely catastrophic for solo teams in particular.
I am at the point where I know I can pretty much dismiss outright anyone who claims Eruption is not broken.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297829#Comment_3297829
One thing that I'll always give hatch/gate for - again, unless you've been BM - is when you get one really cracked survivor and 3 potatoes.
I wish killers could send out a ping, so I don't have to go looking for the person when I want to give hatch XD.
Yeah I was playing Myers last night and I closed hatch but had what would be an ideal door spawn if I cared.
I knew she was scared so I literally crossed to the other side of the map so she could get the doors but she hid until EGC claimed her lol
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Many complaints are absurd for sure and labels like tunnelling and camping are used spuriously as well.
But one thing I think many people playing killer appear to forget is that playing this game is voluntary. The people playing survivor are not bound to you and are not obligated to continue humouring you if you are not going to consider their fun as well as your own.
I don't think any killer can complain when they tunnel off hook/camp/slug at 5 gens with multiple hooks (for example) when they find people don't want to play with them and just go next. Why would people want to play games with you if you are going to treat them like that?
This is NOT condoning DCing either but lately the conduct of some people playing killer is pretty appalling. But if someone decides they are going to run unfun builds and use unfun tactics then people are going to not only complain about it, you will also not get normal matches as people wont be your plaything.