Lochnload_exe
Lochnload_exe
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
A: Survivor passives related to their perks/lore. tiny improvements to things Things like Ace being 3% luckier, Elodie finding better items 3% of the time, etc. Stuff between 1-5% better, depending on the strength.(nothing related to chase)
B: Killer passives, like fake wraith outlines in the distance, still frames of spirit's phasing appearing throughout the map, the ink splotches from the artist's map appearing on other maps when playing against her (much less, though), metal creaks against PH, etc.
Stuff that's toeing the line between giving away the killer and being a "wait, did I just see that?".
any ideas?
This has been suggested so many times and the responses are about always the same, people are just gonna play the survivors with the best passives.
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He really feels the exact same to play to me, people say he feels extremely clunky to play, I'd say he still feels about the same, especially compared to killers like Pyramid Head and Freddy who feel so unsatisfying. Other than the TR nerf which sucks, his chase feels the same if you are actually good at landing shots.
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She looks way more creative and unique than I thought she would be, and she is also the closest I will get to a prototype killer
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@Foodnt said:
In my opinion the only addon wich needed a nerf was the fang. the rest is completely fine.
what do you think about the changes
He is a solo queue bully killer, and can also handle SWFS if the pinhead is good.
Also he is a new killer and new killers always have higher stats at release.
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@ZephanUnbound said:
I don't know about you guys, but I get kind of tired of the constant sweat of ranked matchmaking, especially since the MMR system seems to encourage bad gameplay from killers. It would be nice to have a more chill experience every now and again, especially when you just want to farm bloodpoints since you changed platforms and lost hundreds of hours of progress, like I did, without being tunneled and hook camped into a low score game.
the people you don't like facing on ranked are gonna...just also play casual lmao
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2622595#Comment_2622595
Definitely not a skill issue. I 4k most of the time. And yes, tiles, especially when they are connected, are incredibly overpowered. The survivor can easily lead a game ending chase if they choose to play safe. The killer can’t do anything about it.
Again, most definitely a skill issue lmao
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@luv2splge1488 said:
Grim Embrace WILL be nerfed.
Hex: Pentimento WILL be nerfed.
Birds of Prey WILL be nerfed.
Boon: Exponential wont be touched.
You heard it here first. I am calling it right now. Come back to this thread when it happens.
The boon doesn't NEED nerfed though 🤔
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@StarLost said:
I can already see your mouth opening to say 'wat'.
Just hear me out.
Recently, we saw a pretty big nerf to Wraith. The reasons given was that he was 'overperforming' at lower levels of play and too easy to do well with. No matter that he was low-mid tier at high levels of play - by old statements, BHVR doesn't balance around high level play.
Now, we are seeing...bizarre nerfs to Cenobite addons. The only problem addon - Fang - will still be strong, but his fun addons are now craptacular. The reasons, yet again, seem to be that he's 'overperforming' at lower levels of play and is too easy to do well will. He's perfectly mid-tier at high level play. But sure, again, BHVR doesn't balance around high level play.
I'm not a fan of this, but it is what it is.
However...
Recently, they put out a list of killer kill rates, with Nurse and a few other killers ridiculously low.
Most of these are killers who are very strong at high level play - these numbers are being thrown off by how impossible they are for newer players to do well with, and thus how easy they are to survive against in low level play. They are certainly 'underperforming'.
BHVR also said that they won't be buffing Nurse, with the implication that she'd be too strong in high level play.
Now...riddle me this.
Why is it okay to nerf killers who are overperforming in low level play, regardless of their viability in high level play - but at the same time not buff killers who are underperforming in low level play for the sake of high level play?
Isn't this a massive double standard?
Yes, I'm salty about the Cenobite nerfs. They are too hefty for a very new killer, and reduce his addons to Pyramid Head/Freddy levels of lameness.
Not really a logic of BHVR's though. Wraith and Pinhead overperformed at low levels without any input or skill really required. Wraith had a better pig ambush with insane movement speed and stealth, and Pinhead could just put on those addons and combined with the fact that solving could be interrupted, it lead to a miserable time for newer players.
It is similar to OG freddy. When he first launched, even though he wasn't op against good or even average survivors, new players really suffered to him, and the game was review bombed till he was nerfed. Again he wasn't op, he was just really oppressive for newer players which is just bad for business.
Wraith and Pinhead match this, they aren't unbearable for good players, but feel awful for newer players. Pinhead nerfs feel justified, he still has the same strengths and plays the same, he just isn't like miserable lol Wraith didn't deserve it though at all, his counter was just being good at loops, now he suffers more.
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@gatsby said:
In the past, good Killers expected 4/3ks with little resistance. They could run meta builds and on their mains and have a really dominant performance.
Now since MMR, Killers generally get 1-3ks when playing well. Playing extra sweaty doesn't result in an absolute steamroll most of the time. Personally, I think its healthier and Killers have been slowly changing their mindsets from expecting a 4k to expecting a 2k and being pleasantly surprised if they get more.
It's a painful process to change expectations, but the Devs always said the goal was 2ks. At least getting all four BBQ stacks for max points is still pretty realistic every game.
A win is now a 2k. Anything else is basically bonus points and up to luck
You are right and that is ok for this type of game, it would be like saying survivor sucks now because you aren't getting a 4 man escape every game. People need to stop acting like they are owed a win every match, it is an online game and you are meant to lose sometimes, that is how a game is made.
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@beatddb said:
It's already been a month since the PTB introducing circle of healing and shadowstep. My question is, how did those perks even made it past the PTB unchanged? I wouldn't even waste time explaining why as everyone already knows these perks are OP (especially COH, the fact that you can heal during the killer breaking pallet animation makes me wonder if the devs tried the perk at all) but it would be nice to have the devs say something. Even if it's a "we think the perks are balanced" it would be great to hear that they know people are complaining.
Because right now it just feels like we are talking to a wall
They have said before they were looking at the info for a while but are happy with it right now and honestly yeah they aren't that horrible lol
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/292630/bubba
What do you expect the killer to do? They have absolutely no chance of playing “fair” and winning due to broken tiles and ridiculous gen speeds. Ask the devs to balance the game.
Sounds like a skill issue lmaoo the tiles are broken?
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
Is it just me or is there no one playing Pinhead? I barely if ever see him in my games when playing survivor for many hours each day. But then again, there is little reason for wonder as to why. When I play Pinhead, I can feel the struggle to match the power of any other Killer in the game.
The chains can be so easily broken free from, but the rate of missing chains and the cost of doing so is far greater in a chase. For some weird design reason, the chains even break from environmental obstacles like corners, which there are plenty in so many situations and maps. You can't efficiently use the chains in window jungle loops, indoor maps, the shack, or other places such as these.
The time for survivors to break the three chains when caught with no obstacles to intercept is also so tiny that Pinhead can hardly even make it to the other side of a loop before the survivor is already free and running.
Yes, I do realize he has certain places and points that make him "strong" but playing around those strong points comes very rarely in matches against good survivors. Remember, good survivors, know how to run around Pinhead and will abuse this knowledge to bully him to a point where Pinhead has very little to do on his part.
Pinhead can feel weakest without his red add-on "Engineer's Fang". But when he has it, he feels only decent enough to play, mildly satisfying.
If I were to make a suggestion to improve him, I would certainly increase the chain struggle time a bit and make it so that the chain does not break from corners/environmental obstacles, and maybe if not too much to ask, I would also make it so that some things could not be carried out while in chains like unhooking and/or pallet dropping, though perhaps this could accidentally make him a little too powerful, I don't know.
Throw your thoughts and let me know if you have also felt powerless when playing as Pinhead or if I am just weak saucing here.
Honestly, pinhead really isn't that weak, even addonless. I wrote a large guide on him going over some big important stuff about him, in fact the only thing that pinhead needs is that his chains that respawn when broke by the environmental need to respawn instantly, and shoot without delay. They currently have 2 levels of delay which feel awful, just make that faster and he is in his perfect spot.
I think the main problem is all the trouble that arose around his character. It was like bad news upon bad news lmao like no voiceline? sad but that is ok. Oh wait now nft stuff? oh that is bumming but we will get the voicelines back right? Oh that was removed most likely due to connection with the nfts? Alright man this chapter is so bumming. Not to mention pinhead requires loads of mechanical skill and management more than almost every killer. People always say the engineers fang is the only way to play him, but that would be like saying huntress feels bad unless you use iri head. Pinhead is most definitely a good killer, I personally put him at about high B tier, low to mid A tier, but for me, it is the fact of all the bad news that just kept falling on pinhead, very disappointing stuff really.
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I always thought dbd would be perfect for an anthology show. Their tomes are perfect for this, each episode would just be the lore or extended story of either a survivor or a killer. Would be really nice to see the characters expanded on, maybe even some episodes that are based around the actual realm and what is happen currently.
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@NAERUUU said:
Is that the « oppression » mental effect with knives ?
too op ?
too weak ?
tell me dudes :3
It isn't a fact that he is either too strong or too weak, it is the combination of the two that is the problem. When talking about trickster, the talk of either buffs or nerfs suffers from this, because people will argue "he didn't need the buff, he is too strong!!" or they will say "He is too weak, he needs more buffs!"
Both of these people are correct, he is extremely oppressive and awful design gameplay-wise because he gives much less counterplay, with the only effective counterplay being holding w and losing LOS, and having a design similar to old legion where he will eventually always get you. He is also weak though, people will say that he is weak in chase BECAUSE it takes him a while, or the fact that he has horrible map pressure and can only really exert pressure by camping or tunneling hard.
The problem is people who like him will defend him with the weak argument, and people who hate him will attack with the op argument. the fact though is that both are accurate. He is just a middle ground killer now, being bad designed in both categories. It is the same reason slinger was nerfed. Both are killers that don't need buffed or nerfed, because like slinger, the killer will most likely only get worse in one of those categories.
They nerfed slinger, and while slinger still most definitely has his strengths, he is overall worse. If they buffed slinger, he would've been way more oppressive. Those killers honestly are destined to this design hell by their playstyle. They either need reworked, or they need to get buffed in one area and nerfed in the other till they are in a boring level again like freddy.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2622436#Comment_2622436
Why thank you, kind sir!
Sure, Dragon’s Grip could use a briefer cool down. But that’s not what you said in your OP.
they did tho, they said reduce or remove the cooldown.
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@dspaceman20 said:
If I being honest I can't take most people seriously on this forum when they suggest things for balance. I'm sorry to be rude but some ideas are just so terrible that I glad the devs don't listen to the community when it comes to feedback sometimes. It just seems like the majority of people on here don't want the game to be balanced they just want to make one side completely terrible and the game uneven.
Maybe I'm just being ridiculous myself but do people here even want balance for both sides?
You are right for real, it is really sad to see a community so determined in their "fight for balance" while also either suggesting the worst ideas ever, or just plain not knowing how things actually work
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@Tr1nity said:
Lets look at a list-
Killer in need of a nerf:
- Nurse
Killers in need of a buff:
- Clown
- Hag
- Trapper
- Hillbilly
- Cenobite
- Executioner
- Pig
- Demogorgon
- Myers
- Ghostface
And likely many, many more
unpopular opinion but nurse does not need a nerf, and a lot of those killers don't really need huge buffs. Not every killer needs to be the current S tier.
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@lavars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2622147#Comment_2622147
why not both for killer?
And Kindred, i forgot to say it before, is very smart, as it would help with campers, should the distance be nerfed just a little bit for it?
Corrupt make sense, when 3 survivors are on a starter gen they can finish it before you even arrive on some maps, haha.
I think honestly the problem for killer is that base regression is so slow, it takes about 4 times as long to fully regress a gen as it takes to fully repair it. Ruin makes this 2x slow. I think that ruin regression should be base kit, but you still have to kick it. Personally giving killers pop and corrupt on top of 4 perks is a tad oppressive. I'd prefer pop because it promotes not camping and going to pressure gens.
For survivor kindred I think should be base purely for the fact it only helps solo queue, SWF don't get any more info than usual. For BT, I think it should be nerfed to about 5 seconds, and the unhooked survivor also loses collision so you can't bodyblock
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For survivor: BT and Kindred
Killer: Pop or Corrupt
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621907#Comment_2621907
I can compare it to any game I like if we are discussing balance. Typically you wouldn't compare shooters and RTS games anyway but I was trying to make a general point around what balance means to me.
But yeah given its assymetric nature and lack of competitiveness, maybe I'm trying to shoehorn something into the game it should not be
Balance is trying to make the game more fair in the middle ground, nothing that is just abusable op, and nothing that is extremely weak and pointless. Besides a couple weak perks, the game doesn't really have anything like that, there are definitely weaker and stronger things, like in most games, but a large point of dbd is that you approach how you play in game, seeing as map layouts (beside a couple) are rng, spawns are rng, and what the survivors AND killers could bring, looking at the lobby and knowing what to do takes away from a large part of the game. Sure in a class based shooter, if I see the long range character, short range will beat them and etc. In dbd, the biggest form of this is just seeing the killer and knowing how to play around them, but other than that it is about adapting mid game.
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@JPA said:
When you think about a video game which is balanced or near-balanced, what is it that makes it balanced?
One of the key things for me is that expectations within the game are clear and there are no "surprises" once you learn the game.
If I'm playing Age of Empires IV, and I see I am playing against the English, I know what the English can do, and know that they might go for a early longbow rush. I'll make decisions in my gameplay based around this.
If I'm playing Team Fortress 2 and I see a Sniper across the map, and I am a Scout, I know I will probably lose a shootout, as I know the capabilities of his class against mine, at range. If it is close range, I know that I'll probably win that engagement. I'll make decisions in my gameplay based around this.
With Dead by Daylight when you start chasing a Survivor, you have no such indication of what you are playing against, often until it is too late.
Sure some perks are a given at this point, I know when chasing someone who is injured I probably have to painfully wait 2-5 seconds before hitting them, as there's probably a 70% chance they have DH. I know if I'm approaching someone unhooking, I should go for the unhooker, OR wait 12 seconds before going for the person hooked, as they probably have BT protection.
Basically there is a correct way to play most situations, whether it is slugging/not-slugging, choosing which gen to pressure, and choosing which survivor to chase at any point. This correct way is determined by making judgements of which players have which perks and what perks they are likely to have hidden to this point. If the survivors are also all wearing the same skin, well good luck I guess?
Then you have perks which are used less, which might make a situation play out very differently. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing perk diversity, but sometimes these perks work simply because the Killer would not think you are running them.
I remember a hard fought game I lost on the Silent Hill map. The last two survivors were slugged, I basically had to just hook them at this point. I was still new to DBD, but I knew about DS, so I instantly knew to pick up the least recently hooked person. Well in this case they had soul guard, they stood up just in time, tanked a hit, picked up the other person, and they both ran out of the gate (of course, with a teabag and "ez clap" in chat for no extra cost).
In this situation, the correct play was to not pick up the recently unhooked person as they probably have DS. Up to this point I don't think I'd even saw Soulguard, so you can imagine my rage at the time. I think the correct play I guess was to leave the survivors slugged, or get to the soulguard player quicker. In the absence of soul guard though (i.e. most games) I feel my play was correct.
Another game I remember losing, another hard fought game on a farm map as a Huntress. I had a slug near a closed gate, and knew the location of the other 3 survivors. I think it was a correct play to leave the slug, as to this point he had not used unbreakable, and I wanted to pressure the other survivors. I chase the other guys, one of them has For the People, they get the insta pick up and everyone escapes. Again, first time I've ever seen this perk, so I was annoyed. Do I now have to play around this in the future, or should I basically continue as if no one is running this perk?
Basically my problem is that, due to the fact any survivor can run any perks, the "correct" way to play any engagement is always up for debate.
Making Survivors more predictable
I think that if Survivors had limitations on their potential perks, it would reduce this issue somewhat.
Imagine if each Survivor could only run 1 or 2 perks from other Survivors, and the remaining slots must be their own Adept perks. I feel this now cuts down on the OP builds any Survivor can run, and adds some element of predictability to the game.
E.g. if I see a David, I know he's probably going to have DH. If I see a Bill, slugging him is a risk (UB), and I can also assume he probably has BT.
You can still get some powerful builds, e.g. a Bill could run UB, BT, DH and IW.
But you can say goodbye to everyone running a meta build, and if you see a team of 4 Bills then you know you are probably playing a full-meta team and should probably play hard.
But like when playing TF2, simply by seeing a character, you know what tactics you have to use instantly, but the Survivor still has 2 perk slots to have creative builds and come up with some unexpected plays.
Make the game more predictable? That kind of takes away from the point of what the game is, by you not knowing what you could be going against in each match and adjusting your playstyle midgame. You can't really compare it to shooters or civ games lol
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@DarkbeastPaarl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621882#Comment_2621882
Let's answer your question with another question. How often have you seen all four Survivors escape through the Hatch?
very rarely, because it could only happen when all 5 gens are done, so they could just leave. How often did I see 3 man escapes? Extremely often, if one survivor is dead the moment only 1 gen remains they could leave, if you play good as killer and secure a 3 gen and start pressuring good, they could just find a key and leave lmao
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@DarkbeastPaarl said:
I know I'm not the only one who thinks BHVR has pretty much nerfed the Hatch into the ground. The fact that the Hatch ONLY spawns for the last Survivor isn't a good thing, and I know that even Killer mains are complaining about this. So BHVR, please fix this.
why lol no more big hatch escapes, it is pretty great.
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@Bangarang said:
So I’ve been playing this game since 2017 and one thing I loved to do for both survivor and killer was get to rank 1 after every rank reset which sometimes resorted in me having to play extremely focused / sweaty, especially on the killer side of things. With time this became tiresome and it started to suck the fun out of my games, especially after the implementation of MMR.
So now, whenever I’m playing killer I remove every gen regression perk and focus more on chase perks or perks to try to meme around with to see if I can get certain combinations to work in my favour. This has removed all of my killer stress and I no longer prioritise getting a 4K over my own enjoyment.
Last night I played as Deathslinger on Gideon Meat Plant using M&A, Sloppy, Nurses and Franklin’s and I actually ended up getting a 3K. It just happened organically and felt so nice. I just don’t want to feel stressed out when playing games. I’m here for the fun.
Has anybody else adjusted their play style since MMR?
Yeah when you finally figure out that you aren't meant to 4k every single round and stop stressing on it, the game feels nice.
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@sadakiyo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2612336#Comment_2612336
she isn't now you can hear her if she is near you. as for addons, that's laughable because she needs more speed and duration than insta recharging her power if you want good map control
Not to be mean but she is still S tier, if you think she sucks now, then it is a skill issue on your part :/
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@StarLost said:
Don't worry, nothing too serious. We just need to establish some ground rules here. Feel free to add your own (curious what survivors have to say to killers).
- If I patrol back past a hook on my way to the next gen, that's not camping. Neither is seeing you on your way to unhook and giving chase or catching you healing directly under the hook. I'll try not to outright camp unless I'm getting mauled, but I don't have to give you the unhook either.
- If you want to play grab-ass while I'm hooking, don't complain when you end up getting hooked yourself.
- If you are absolutely smoking me, consider easing up a bit. We all get less BP if you just slam out gens and hide all the time.
- Similarly, if you have an early DC or are getting pulped, I'll probably ease up a bit and let you do some gens, heal and the like. If you just want the game to end, come to me.
- If you BM (teabagging, flashing etc.) and I tunnel you down...well, you wanted my attention and you got it. Feel free to DC.
- If I remember you as someone who BMed me in the past, you'll get the strongest addons/perks I have available to me, and I'll do my level best to make sure you die first.
- This also goes for people who consistently abuse the possible pseudo-infinites on Badham, RPD and Haddonfield.
- If you switch to items last second, I may suffer mysterious internet problems or find myself called away on urgent business. You know what you did.
- Sometimes you'll get hit by a lunge that looked like you were clear. Sometimes I'll get hits that mysteriously vanish. We both have lag sometimes, and, since I don't control the servers, yelling at me in postgame is a bit pointless. Roll with it, we all get bad bounces.
- I will bring addons sometimes. If you never bring toolboxes, medkits, flashlights etc. then and only then do you get to complain about them.
- No, I don't have wallhacks. It's probably Discordance or Lethal Pursuer.
- Be aware that blood pools and scratches leading to a locker is sort of a give-away.
- Lastly, be aware that there is a living, breathing human being on the other end of that spooky avatar, and I'm trying to have fun with you in a frustrating game.
How about you?
Babe wake up, oppressed killer main just dropped a new killer rule book
this is the funniest post I have ever seen.
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614792#Comment_2614792
I dont agree. Killers mains are not toxic. I had really good chats with killers when I play survivor but not in the other way. No survivors had a good endgame chat with me as killer. Even if I tried to be nice by saying "gg hope you enjoyed the game" they still insulting me.
You can disagree with me all you want, it doesn't really change the fact. Just today there has already been forum posts saying they are just gonna start camping and tunneling now to be toxic, just look here at the forums and you can clearly see that it is much more killer mains feeling oppressed than survivors being toxic.
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@themoobs1984 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614792#Comment_2614792
That's not true though. Not in my experience. I've rarely gotten hate messages from killers like I have from survivors.
Not really how that works, like you said in your experience. There is 4 survivors for every one killer, statistically a more sided killer main is gonna come across more toxic survivors than killers, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that killers and survivors are about equally as toxic, the forums are a great example.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Ok so with all the talk of boon totems about how they are over there needs to be a way to make them fairer for both sides. I don't want to annoy killers with Boons but I still want them to be strong for survivors too. So I feel there are a few changes to boon totems themselves to make them fair
1. Put boon totems on a timer
I feel putting them on a timer would solve the issue of killers not having time to snuff out the boon totems. They won't be pressed for time as they could just ignore it as it could go away. Make it last for 100 seconds.
2. Make it so that when killers snuff out boons it destroy the totem
(I honestly don't see a problem with this. The killer is putting in time to find the totems and take it out)
3. Only one boon totem can be up at a time. If all survivors have a boon totem perk then those perks effects are transferred to the one totem. All survivors who have a boon perk can still bless dull totems but the totems will just switch locations and not create another boon totem area. To compensate a bit increase boon totem range up to 26 meters instead of 24 ( This could probably change when there are multiple boon perks available)
(This is to help prevent to many safe areas with boon totems)
4.) Make DS deactivated from blessing.
(Seems pretty self explanatory)
These next changes are with the perk themselves
5) make circle of healing not stack with any other healing perks or Medkits as well as lower the speed to 85% instead of 100%
(I'm surprised they didn't do this in the first place. It seems pretty obvious they should have done this. Being able to heal to fast is a problem)
6.) For shadow step keep the aura reading hiding but make it so that survivors leave scratch marks and blood but they only last for 1 seconds.
(I feel this is fair as it doesn't necessarily take away tracking from the killer but if the killer is distracted and does not pay attention then they can lose the survivors easily and it requires some work from survivors)
I feel these changes to boon perks are fair for both sides but if you disagree let me know why and if you have anything to add then please add.
How to make boons irrelevant, a thread.
This is a great change if you really want to see DH, DS, UB, BT even more
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@Anara said:
Im survivor main but I play both side recently.
At first when I played killer I tried to do my best and kill all of them.
Since the SBMM I just want to chill and play for fun. Im not a competitive guy. So I decided to do my best to 2 hook everyone then letting them escape by gates.
When I tried to kill them all they insulted me in endgame chat. Now I let them escape and play super fair and they still toxic in endgame chat, insulting me ect.
What am I supposed to do ?
Im confused. I dont understand this hate towards killer players.
Survivors ask killers to play fair, no camp, no tunnel, but even if you play like that its still toxicity in endgame chat.
I think most of survivors mains just want to insult killer player whatever happen during the game.
Next time I will try hardcamp games. Maybe they will stop insulting then 🤷♂️
Just a quick reminder, killers are just as toxic as survivors. It is a game and in literally any other pvp game there is just as much if not more toxicity even when you do nothing wrong.
it is the internet, nothing has changed that, and dbd isn't an exception or weird oddity.
Play how you find fun, block endgame chat if it bothers you so much, and if you find being toxic is mean and then you do it, you are not only the problem, but also proving the fact that killers and survivors are both toxic.
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@Brokenbones said:
As someone who despised trickster as a character on release, I actually came to appreciate his power and design over the months. Especially after I tried him out for myself, his power is fun if nothing else
I wish he had more to him, like - he's an 110% man countered by turning corners. At least the other 110%s have more going for them to make up for their weaknesses. Trickster doesn't, apart from being oppressive in open areas
Exactly how I feel. I enjoy his design and his power can be fun, it just feels like it is the worst case scenario of the "animation = injure" killers, where he is not only slow so m1 is hard and playing the 1v4 is hard, 1v1 on some things is just impossible
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614758#Comment_2614758
Again, the only way you can prove something is objectively bad designed is if you made a poll with the majority of the playerbase. Neither you or me can say something is objectively good or bad.
ob·jec·tive·ly
/əbˈjektivlē,äbˈjektivlē/
adverb
- in a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.
Everything in your post is just about your personal feelings or opinions. There's nothing objectively about it.
I am literally in awe lmao.
I said my subjective opinion was that I like trickster, I think he is a unique character with a lot of potential.
Then I said, away from my opinion, his power is badly designed and it shows pretty blatantly, you can look at forums posts and see this. You can look at reddit posts to see this. You can go into discord servers and see this. You can go on videos and definitely see this.
He isn't weak necessarily, that isn't what I said. I said his power, in the terms of DBD and what makes killers strong in it, his power OBJECTIVELY is not healthy or good.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
- Dropping a pallet forces laceration decay as he can't catch up in time, this also causes for bloodlust gaming
- After actually getting a blade hit it takes ages to catch up
- Worst map pressure in the game
- 40m lullaby (for some reason?)
- Has to frequently locker reload
- Literally useless at high wall loops]
- Useless past 10m
- Better to not use his power in most situations
Why plague and blight are 115% and trickster isn't baffles me.
Unpopular opinion but as of now, I think Deathslinger would be a better fit now for getting 115, and trickster should get reworked or get a better use of his power.
Not saying deathslinger should get 115, I just think he deserves it more than trickster, deathslinger doesn't have a lullaby and has a 32 m TR, he practically fits the 115 killer thing.
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@ElusivePukka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614736#Comment_2614736
I'm not a Trickster main, but I play Trickster to develop my aim for Deathslinger and Huntress. He's far less accurate, often feels less mobile, and frankly has more counterplay - because he's less functional in basekit, I get better at all the ranged killers when using him.
Same feeling, I play him for a switch up but he just feels worse in every aspect than other killers that do the same thing.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614726#Comment_2614726
"Your opinion = subjective, my opinion = objective"
I really do not think you are grasping the concept lol so in your eyes, if I think Dead Hard is healthy and good design, just because I think that, that means that I am objectively correct?
Or what I was saying, where it doesn't matter how you feel about a thing, some things are objectively good or bad design.
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@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614567#Comment_2614567
I understand, but no matter how you slice it, Deathslinger was nerfed. Twice! There’s a growing trend of half-baked balance changes like these, and it’s natural for people to be dissatisfied.
Sure, it can be argued that quick scoping was unhealthy for the game and that the relevant nerf intended to fix this, however nerfing a weak killer is also unhealthy. In fact as I said before, it’s a far bigger threat to game health than any lone mechanic.
This is about priorities. Deathslinger should not have been changed until the devs were ready to adjust his kit accordingly. Instead, they went ahead with half-baked changes and threw in an extra nerf while they were at it! People are going to complain. It would be sort of weird for them not to.
You may have no doubt that Deathslinger will receive a compensation buff, but I have serious doubts. This is BHVR we are talking about. Here’s a direct quote on their perspective when it comes to balancing the game:
"It's kind of chaotic right now but we're embracing that now. We used to rebel against it and fight back and try to balance everything and make sure that everything works perfectly with everything else and at some point - i think the switch happened probably two years ago or something - we just looked at it and went there's so many characters now. There's so many killers, so many survivors, so many perks that there is no human way [to balance]. Like, maybe some google super ai thing could make sense of it all but for mere humans like us it's just... it's... it's a beautiful waltz of chaos and you have to enjoy it for what it is... and just jump in and get surprised, and get, you know, sort of get lost in the chaos."
That doesn’t sound like a company too concerned with compensation buffs, which would explain why they didn’t give him one alongside the nerf. So you may be confident, but surely you can see why other people aren’t.
I agree with some your comments regarding the core issues with the game, likewise your suggestions, but I can’t get onboard with the rest of what you’re saying.
I do get the whole “fix this and that before buffing these and those” concept, but when it’s at the expense of a weak killer and merely trades one unhealthy element for another, with BHVRs track record, it’s just not the way. They should have simply held off until they were ready to address the full issue.
I can agree with this and you are right. It is bad design to not do something all together, a killer shouldn't be nerfed twice without also having a buff or just plain rework ready for him. I really think we actually have the same view and only a thin wire is separating us. I really do agree buffs and nerfs should roll out together when necessary, and things shouldn't be left out to die until the other thing rolls through, us killers have had that for a long time with moris gone, but keys remaining for a long time. This is a valid complaint, but in my eyes the complaint shouldn't be at the fact we lost super strong moris, it should be at keys also not getting nerfed.
My eyes think that complaining is completely justified, just like the original post says, it is just that complaints are focused onto the wrong thing. Again, I think the nerf was needed for deathslinger, I don't even see it as a nerf as it was a needed change in my eyes, but there NEEDED to be a buff with it, and that is where it feels unfair to me like you said.
Also to be fair, the devs did say that chaos thing, followed by them releasing good reworks, balance changes, and the MMR system that, while not super skill based, pushes the game in a more balanced direction.
Trust me, I've been playing this game for a long time and I have seen some awful decisions, but they have really been doing some healthy stuff recently that I feel will get better, but like you said that doesn't excuse the fact of them making changes half at a time. I'm not for making changes like this. My stance is one of making healthy changes like keys, moris, and deathslinger nerf, but it should be good changes too, like a buff alongside.
I don't want to sound like I'm controlling what people should and shouldn't be mad about, you bought the game, you can say what you want, but I really think it is just a matter of complaining of the wrong aspect of things. I don't think you should be mad at the mori nerf, it makes you seem like you one of the ones that abused them, you should be mad at the fact keys didn't get changed for so long after. Don't be mad at the slinger nerfs, be mad that all he got was nerfs and not buffs, because the nerf part of it was justified, even the TR change was fine to me, he just did not get the buffs to go with it.
I totally get you and you are right, I just hope the right feedback is getting through, that is all really
and not just asking for noed to be base kit /s
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614707#Comment_2614707
Yes, it is an opinion thing. If the devs decided to add him, I trust them more than a trust you.
The only way you could prove to me he's objectively bad designed is by doing a poll with at least the majority of the DBD playerbase. But judging by how many people I see on social media and in game that like him, it wouldn't go well.
Again, enjoying him and liking him is different than his gameplay actually being designed good, these are the same devs that made old legion after all, and omegablink nurse, and original hag, and of course trapper up until this last patch required a bag if you wanted to even play him good. Oh also spirit has had the ability to stand still and the survivors would be put into a lose-lose situation up until the last patch too.
I love the devs but they have most definitely made bad designs in the past they have went back on and changed. I hope you know what subjective and objective mean because again, I also like trickster, he is a unique addition to the game, but POWER AND GAMEPLAY WISE even trickster mains know his power just is not very good, not to mention, again, objectively badly design for him to do badly in the 1v4, but oppressive in the 1v1.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
"so people moved on and forgot about him"
People = Myself
I see a lot of Tricksters, more so than a lot of other killers (even recent ones like Nemesis and Pinhead). He's tons of fun to play as and I don't really mind going against him.
People love to throw their opinion around using things like "epitome of bad design".
I mean I am not saying bad design in any term of the character and how he looks, fun is subjective after all and if you like his gameplay then that is great, but objectively his power is badly designed for a game like this, that isn't really an opinion thing. In a 1v4 game, a killer that is purely 1v1 focused, while also being built to be weaker and lose in the 1v4 just isn't great objectively, especially when he isn't even the strongest 1v1 killer by a long shot.
Again, subjectively if you enjoy his gameplay yeah, no one has say over that, but that doesn't make him well designed.
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@KerJuice said:
Remove SWF from public matches. Solo Que games are a lot more chill.
Honestly Solo queue should just get some bonuses and I'd be happy. Also buff base kit killer
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Oh trust me, I really did enjoy him too, and I still think his character is interesting, his power was just executed very poorly
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@Wampa1 said:
There are many but I think a good place to start is with the MMR.
If I could change anything instantly, I would try to do big that has been a large problem for a while. I would shorten and shrink all maps by a good margin, a little bigger than Dead Dawg Saloon. This would not only make Killer much better, but is a change survivors also would enjoy.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2611895#Comment_2611895
Pinhead box comes to mind :)
I would argue that Pinhead's box isn't a side objective really, it is a main objective.
A side objective usually means it is optional and is not necessary for the round, similar to boons, but things like Pinhead's box or Pig's traps are basically new main objectives added.
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@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614326#Comment_2614326
He needed a buff to compensate, but instead of a buff they also nerfed his terror radius. Not only is that unhealthy game design for the people playing Deathslinger, thus exchanging one problem for another, but it’s also objectively bad game design, which is unhealthy for the game as a whole.
Being opposed bad game design is not unhealthy.
“I get liking deathslinger because he gave those dirty swf gen rushers no counterplay”
Well, that’s a false statement. Deathslinger was a weak killer despite his strong 1vs1. Pretending he had no counterplay won’t change the fact that that his 1vs4 was/is one of the weakest in the game, and at the end of the day, 1vs4 is what counts. No matter how bad they were at juking his shots, those dirty gen rushers countered him by simply doing gens.
The fact of the matter is that Deathslinger did have counterplay in his 1vs1 too. For example I’ve seen countless videos of high level survivors running him for extended periods of time and reliably juking his “unstoppable” quick scoping. The evidence is out there for all to see.
“I get feeling upset about gross survivors using op meta yucky perks, but you also doing the same thing on your side doesn't make it better”
Are you honestly trying to compare Deathslinger’s quick scoping to perks like DH, Unbreakable, etc? That’s not the hill mate 😂
I’m not upset over anything, but I’m definitely unsatisfied with nerfs to weak killers. It’s not healthy. No matter how much you hated being quick scoped, weak killers being made weaker is a much bigger problem.
Did you know that out of 25 killers, only 3 can compete at the highest level? That’s 12%. A staggering issue with game balance. Nerfing killers that aren’t even in that 12% is not good for anyone.
When it comes down to it, you can chime on about how quick scoping was unhealthy, but that doesn’t change the reality that Deathslinger was a weak killer and got nerfed, nor does it change the fact that nerfing weak killers is far more unhealthy for the game than quick scoping ever was.
They should have buffed him to compensate. They didn’t, and nerfed him further instead. That’s the real issue and it doesn’t take much to realise why people are unamused.
All I'm saying is that there needs to be a divide in view of something as a nerf, and something as a health change. Again I fully agree that weak killers shouldn't be made weaker, and I agree he really should've gotten buffed as well, that is indeed just bad dev work, but the "nerf" WAS really justified, same with spirit. They are health changes to make the game much more reliable, it is like the huntress lullaby nerf a long time ago. People were mad at it, but it was just a simple change to make things much more consistent for the future of the game.
I have no doubt in my mind deathslinger will get a compensation buff, hell I wouldn't mind if he got stuff like longer range, much stronger chain, even 115 considering his current range. The bad decision of not giving him that buff though does not change the need for more health changes like this. Again, "nerfing" weak killers isn't a fact of the killer being "too strong", it is a fact of the killer being badly designed to begin with.
The majority of killers are in fact weak, but are they the killer's fault? I really don't think so. If you take a weak killer, let's say clown, and put them on a balanced map with good gen perks and a good player playing them, they will do good, but maybe still struggle against bully teams using very strong items. This formula shows what the problem really is though in the game. I really do think most if not all killers are in a good spot, and need very slight number changes if anything (I really only think Trickster or maybe legion need reworked), but the problem is killers having really bad base gen regression, and survivor items being too strong in such a game-altering way.
Personally, this is the whole point of this thread, seeing people complaining about certain aspects that I really don't see as the real issue, and if the actual base game was made better, THAT is when we should make big killer changes. Maybe current slinger isn't that bad if survivors didn't have such game-ending items, or if killers didn't need 3 gen slowdown to do good.
I believe that killers should do like 5% damage to a gen on kick, or add a time that survivors have to repair before the gen stops regressing as base. I also think base regression speed should be equivalent to Ruin T3, but a kick is still required. This change doesn't take away how good the gen perks are, but it also doesn't make them any better, it makes running a build without gen slowdown still effective.
I think items in general should be nerfed or reworked and I think Otz video on the topic is really interesting and sounds like some nice fun changes. Though for healing, I think there should be a cap on healing, I don't think healing percentages should be able to exceed 100% in any form, and healing percentages like that should be toned down on perks. This would still make healing perks good, but you can't be getting 4 seconds every time.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614075#Comment_2614075
I dont see how any other killer is more interactive than the next. In fact in terms of interacting he's closer to killers like Huntress and Nurse. Survivors aren't even necessarily designed to interact with killers... the number of killers you can interact with aren't very strong either.
Everything else you mentioned is simply how Trickster is designed to be played and played against. That alone doesnt mean Trickster is a terrible design. You have to explain some reasoning as to why that's a terrible design.
In a pvp game, it is generally part of the game design to send 1 players skill against another. A skillful player against nurse or huntress can make the correct reads and punish the killer for mistakes, and the other way around. With trickster, and some other killers, their whole kit is based around being aggressively unhealthy in the 1v1, while being easy to destroy and beat in the 1v4. No way you put it, that is just bad design. The interaction for those killers boil down to holding w, something that is constantly complained about, because your skill in the chase doesn't matter against those killers. It doesn't matter how good someone is at running loops or tiles if the killer just holds button and gets injures during an animation, and that is their whole power. In a game of 1v4, making a killer power that is focused around being unfun for 1 person during chase, and unfun for the other 3 because all they do is do gens, it isn't great design.
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@stvnhthr said:
I would like to play with friends, but most give up after a week because they say the game is too hard.
I don't think the basics of the game are too hard, it is expecting a new player to come onboard and play long enough to get good while wading through all the toxicity and learning all the perks and add-ons.
My ideas would be to give them "training wheels."
Some ideas would be perhaps a cosmetic which shows they are new, like an armband or special skin which would disappear after 50 games of play. Along with the training wheels idea I would increase the skill checks good and great areas and have them slowly shrink as they progress. I would also decrease their struggle meter and increase the killer stun time on a shake free escape; again the struggle meter would increase as they progress. Perhaps one survivor or killer would be given to them with all the perks at level 3 for them to use for the first ten games.
I really would like to see new players try this game and stick around.
Add a training mode where you can play against bots, and also give more advanced tips about the game itself, stuff like make distance, or pressure multiple survivors etc.
Also delete the forums probably lmao
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@El_Gingero said:
Deathslinger did not deserve the nerfs.
Sure, he was oppressive in 1vs1, however he was still a weak killer regardless.
So what’s the issue. He wasn’t fun to play against? His design was unhealthy? There’s plenty in this game that is “unhealthy,” or that isn’t fun to play against. It’s not fun winning a mind game only for someone to press a button and extend the chase by 30 seconds. It’s not fun having to leave people slugged just on the off chance they have DS equipped. It’s not fun facing a bunch of tryhards on comms. Etc etc.
Now, I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to make the game more fun or improve its design. One step at a time and all that. But nerfing an already weak killer just because he’s not fun to play against, or because his design isn’t “healthy,” whilst giving nothing to compensate, and then nerfing him even further just for good measure, is flat-out bad game design.
Before, he was bad game design. Again, I still think he needed a buff to compensate, just like my post said, but making the game healthier is better. You can be upset that they are doing it slowly one thing at a time, but to still be upset they are making unhealthy things more healthy is unhealthy itself. I get liking deathslinger because he gave those dirty swf gen rushers no counterplay, I get feeling upset about gross survivors using op meta yucky perks, but you also doing the same thing on your side doesn't make it better. The game as a whole should be working together and be happy for improvements, not mad because you can't be mean to the other side lol
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@Laluzi said:
I've been playing Wraith and the pumpkins make me sad. I don't have time to stop and uncloak just to smash them.
You have to uncloak to smash them? That is awful lol
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@slendermansmoom said:
or he could trap somebody and then get infinite tier 3
No he couldn't. While Myers AND ghostface stalk, they lose collision. You cannot bodyblock a myers while he is stalking either, it is actually a tec used to bypass people trying to take a hit.
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@Tostapane said:
Title. I did a couple of matches with pinhead playing ABSOLUTELY "fair" (read survivor rulebook), I even eat a DS despite i wasn't tunneling in one of these games, yet people have to complain every time. So my question is: if a killer played "fair", why people keep complaining (even for things that I literally didn't such as camping)?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FJIWHY34XWVI/img-20211104-095820.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9AY00J24B585/img-20211104-111212.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EQ3PJOAGIJ08/img-20211104-111605.jpg
It is an online game and it happens just as much with killers, hell I'd say there is just as big of a killer rulebook as there is a survivor rulebook now.
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@Phasmamain said:
BHVR just don’t want to admit All Kill failed and are trying desperately to make a big deal over it
Literally. I'll admit that his design, character-wise at least, is pretty unique and cool for the game, but it was just executed so poorly. BHVR most definitely wanted to copy League's success with their kpop stuff, but without putting in the same amount of effort they did. Gameplay-wise and even lore-wise you can just tell it was all made to be nice for new players and fans of kpop to have, but past that veil it was awful.