Laluzi
Laluzi
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Neat idea, but I agree it would be a waste of a perk slot because survivors staying right next to a breakable wall you're on the other side of virtually never happens. I think I've witnessed survivors right in front of a broken wall twice - once on someone's stream where a survivor picked a really stupid hiding spot, once in the Game where I kicked a wall because a gen was nearly done on the other side of it. Survivors generally aren't going to stick next to a possible access point when the terror radius is right on top of them, especially when they can hear you hit it before it breaks, and many maps have no breakable walls, or one breakable wall you need to remove ASAP because it enables an infinite loop. It's useless in a chase, too, because if they beat you to the window, they're going to be too far away by the time you break the wall next to it. I don't think it'd be worth a perk slot even if the effect was that it insta-moried them, it'd be so rare to pull it off.
But as basekit, it could be a cool thing that happens once in a blue moon. It'd also finally give breakable walls on Yamaoka and the Game some use, because as it is, killers have very little desire to open the map up for survivors - but those two maps have a lot of useless breakable walls near some gens.
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@FrndlyChnswSalzmn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/256217/new-gideons-meat-plant-is-a-problem
Been doing fine with Bubba, legion and Plague there, myself. Maybe try changing up your approach on this map?
Those are all killers that have some ability to play around pallets. Bubba eats pallets fast with his saw, Legion can vault in Frenzy and bait a quick stun out of their power to bypass fatigue (and gets amazing info from their power on such a compact map, similar to Doctor), and Plague can predict pallets and either load a lot of infection into a survivor or hit them with Corrupt Purge the same way Huntress gets a free hit on anyone dropping or vaulting a pallet.
Most of the loops are very safe, so many killers have no respite but to play pallet breaking simulator a good 10-15 times before they can have chases on the map. Good survivors can waste too much time to salvage the game; the map kind of requires survivors to get lost to slow them down at all, because the first half-dozen chases on this map have so many easy resources to burn.
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My first survivor was Claudette because I was terrified of the killer and I knew from DBD youtube content that she had super stealth. First killer I ever played was Wraith, though I only played two matches with him before switching to Plague, who's been my main ever since.
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@lr01 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2263019#Comment_2263019
Accident Forgiveness? all of those things take about an hour to fix anyway, i'm not sure what youre complaining about. How is your Bad PC/internet everyone elses problem? you DC out of the game its everyone else in the game that suffers. so should you.
Alright. Enjoy your absolutely perfect, completely immune to ordinary accidents or external errors PC and its hypothetical glory. Have fun with a complete dead zone in matches once a week when everyone playing on Steam gets kicked out of the game for its weekly server refresh and all the active PC players are locked out for an hour, and have fun being forced to stay in matches where you're being held hostage by malicious players/two dedicated locker hoppers because the alternative is not being able to play the game for an hour.
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@lr01 said:
well, get better internet, or a better pc, point is you cost the killer BP when you DC, its rude and basically makes you a bad person, who has no idea about sportsmanship.
Are you serious? Have you never had your computer screw up, ever, or your internet provider has a service error and it goes down, or your router overheats and needs to be restarted? Ever had a power outage? I'm not talking about chronic disconnecters on crap internet, I'm talking about average people with perfectly fine connections getting hour-long penalties under your proposed system every time something glitches out. "Basically makes me a bad person," says the person who has zero concept of accident forgiveness.
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Isn't that already the case with normal matchmaking, though? Letting survivors leave after beating them makes them very likely to pip up, while not getting any kills tends to keep you stalled at your current rank despite continuing to learn and improve. I imagine that as more data piles into the system, a single match won't make any significant change to the player's MMR, just like one or two pips isn't going to elevate a player from yellow ranks to red.
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@lr01 said:
I also feel like there should be a bigger penalty for DC's. not 5 minutes..... come on.... make it an hour, crying little girls that get hooked the second time and dc..... there should be a real penalty.
You're also punishing people whose internet shorted out for a second, or whose computer froze, or who were playing via Steam on a Tuesday night, or who had to DC because two other survivors trapped them against a wall and wouldn't let them go. The game can't tell if you crashed or intentionally quit (since task manager is a thing), so the DC penalty is such that players who keep doing it get stacking longer penalties, where players who just do it every once in a while get inconsequential 5-minute bans.
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Very necessary to stop intentional DCing, which is endemic against certain killers and also very common when players are losing. Can be punishing to players who have spotty internet, but ultimately your penalty is going to be proportionate to the number of games you ruin by noping out of partway - if your internet is so bad that you're racking up significant penalties in a short timeframe, you should probably stop playing online multiplayer games for a bit and look at fixing your 'net.
My only beef is that it doesn't take into account Steam's servers refreshing on Tuesday 6pm-7:30pm EST, so everyone using a platform eats a penalty. That should be accounted for because it's plainly server-side, not client-side.
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@Mdawgu said:
Billy is fine honestly balance wise. People just abandoned him for Oni and blight like cowards.
That's kind of the problem, though. Billy isn't a bad killer. He's got great mobility and an instadown that's almost always available. The problem is twofold; he's not the best at what he does, and he's not the easiest at what he does. Other killers encroached on his market space around the time of his nerf, and deleting all of his addons that people used combined with overheat stripped the veil away on how much more consistent results you can get on those other killers. Notice how common Bubba is? Bubba can instadown survivors no matter how much they juke him if he catches them without a window or a pallet. Little skill necessary even if your opponent is very skilled. Oni pretty much has his power on demand after the beginning of the match and has way more forgiving hitboxes. Blight can zoom around the map and zoom after survivors looping him - same charging in straight lines gameplay, improved ability to reactively change course, turn corners after a survivor, and flick.
There isn't much reason to play Billy when other killers can get the same effects more often or with less effort. You can call people cowards all you like, but it doesn't change that Billy is a very rare sight these days despite being a killer that's able to do a lot, and that clearly indicates something is wrong.
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After the cataclysmic Overheat of 2020, DBD's remaining Billies were relocated to a reserve in the old Thompson House, where they peacefully slaughter their parents' pigs and zoom around to their heart's content. Visitors are advised not to approach.
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Huh. I feel like this is somewhat less of a problem because if the survivors all want to give up in this case, they can just run up to the killer and wait to be hooked. The cases where I really want to see a surrender option are ones where the other side doesn't want you to leave - when a killer is slugging you to prevent hatch on a sneaky survivor, or slugging to grief you, or when a player is trolling and bodyblocking you. Though a forfeit would work when the last two survivors are hiding and impossible to find, since the survivors want you to give up.
I really like your idea #1, though. It doesn't apply to the first person leaving, so it can't be used to freely ragequit as a solo, and blocking itself off for SWF is a smart move that fixes the biggest potential abuse of it. Mostly I like that it saves people from forcibly depipping in doomed games through no fault of their own (including the killer, if everyone DCs or the last guy gets hatch.)
Less keen on #2. I don't think putting the choice to abandon a DC game in the hands of the killer accomplishes much, because most killers aren't honorable about this, for lack of a better word. That's not to say they're doing anything wrong, but in my experience, way more killers will go "cool, easy game" when they see an early DC than "this isn't fair, I'll take it easy on them" or "I want a do-over."
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Adam and Meg are my favorites - didn't change much, just made them smoother and nicer. David and Kate are my least favorite, they screwed around with the mouths too much and it really changes how the character looks. Not a fan of Dwight either, he lost his characteristic nervousness.
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@Kate_Main_01 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2261068#Comment_2261068
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2261070#Comment_2261070
That is unfortunate that it is not doing well with teammates. My only guess would be that because of the larger variety in how a Survivor can play compared to how a Killer can play it might be locking people in with people who score the same as them but in wildly different ways. Someone who is great at surviving chases and Killer interactions but fails at altruism and gens might be pairing with people who are equally successful but who are terrible at chases but great at altruism and saves, and so on.
Put three chase-centric Survivors in with one gen-centric one and you have a terrible team.
Edit: Grammar
Unfortunately, it's not a matter of aptitudes, at least not in my experience. That was something I'd see more in normal red ranks; some teams were weak at chases, some teams were aggressively altruistic, some teams only wanted to take aggro and didn't want to do M1 things, and the game would suffer if there wasn't a good balance of what survivors gravitated towards. This is just routinely pairing me with players who are not very experienced at the game - players who don't realize when they should be unhooking (or that they should be unhooking period), players who hide in the corners of the map and urban evade from every point A to point B, players that don't know how to drop pallets or do anything to evade a killer. Lots of missed skillchecks and rescues with the killer right behind them.
I'm unsure why MMR is pairing me with players who are clearly very new. Most of my teams are involving both red rank players and grey rank players, and the skill level disparity is very clear. Games are frequently seeing the weak players die off quickly and leaving behind the stronger players to struggle in early 3 and 2 man situations.
The only way this possibly makes sense to me is if the data they're gathering is how often the player escapes versus how often they die, because red rank solos have a pretty low survival rate, while purples/greens do better on average because their killers are weaker, yellows have mixed performance because their ranks are filled with bots and intentional depippers and it can be hard to play in those ranks, and grey ranks do badly again because new survivors have zero idea what they're doing. If that was the case, then it'd make sense to toss the red rank and the grey rank together. That would be a terrible way of judging skill level, though, because it's not independent data. It's also pairing me/the rank 19s with rank 1 killers, so the idea that we're all terrible in the eyes of MMR still doesn't make sense.
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@velosinhooo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2261077#Comment_2261077
Trickster is already weak lol, whats the point of he having a lullaby. In the other hand, deathslinger has a better jumpscare then even ghostie as he has the Iri add on( if you want to count it) that can just make you be jumpscared and downed even quicker then a Nurse or a Spirit.
Trickster shouldn't have one because he can't surprise eat a health state from a distance. Since he needs 8 hits to damage someone, you're going to jump into action long before he pulls that off, and you'll start a chase - at a disadvantage, but still, you start a chase. He's his own warning system, he doesn't need an extra one.
Deathslinger and Huntress have actual sniping capabilities, so it makes sense to have an additional warning. I wouldn't want to see Deathslinger with a huge lullaby like Huntress does - Huntress's makes sense to me because she can do long-distance shots, and he can't - but being able to put his TR smaller than his snipe range feels a bit exploity and you see that combo constantly.
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I wouldn't have a problem if it was a 24m lullaby, specifically to prevent the M&A snipe radius. I don't have a strong opinion on the matter, but he deserves one way more than Trickster does.
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@Kate_Main_01 said:
Maybe I'm wrong but isn't the idea of MMR that you play enough rounds that the system more accurately gauges your personal skill and starts to slot you in with Killers and other Survivors who have an equal skill level to yours? If so then we can all expect a lot of randomness for awhile as the game tries to pin that down (assuming it will eventually work!). I know that I'll have three or four really good rounds and then play like a potato the rest of the night so unless this system is really intelligent it's going to have a hard time placing me. I'll probably yo-yo back and forth from different competency tiers.
The thing is, it's supposedly been collecting this data in the background while it was off, so it shouldn't be starting from zero. And it's true that different killers of mine were getting different types of matches depending on how much I'd played them and how well I performed in those matches, with that data being established before I played any MMR matches. My Nurse and Billy got potatoes because I'm total trash with those killers, where Wraith, Pig, and Doctor got stronger teams. (Though weirdly, my most played, Plague, has been getting pretty weak teams.)
My survivor games are totally shot, though. Roll the dice if my teammates are normal or potatoes, and the killer can be any color in the rainbow.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260595#Comment_2260595
There’s always a discernible reason for survivor hook suicide. Either they don’t like the killer, the killer was indeed camping or tunnelling the player, or a team mate screwed them over.
I lose count everyday of team mates kiting the killer past a gen I’m working on while Ruin is still up, and they don’t bother to jump on that gen to finish it before or when I’m finally downed. I’m not staying in games with crappy teammates like that, so guess what I do when I’m hooked...
Discernible doesn't mean explicable, it means I can tell what it is. There's a reason I mentioned that separately from ragequits. I'm sure there's always a reason, but it's not always clear. I once had a teammate give up on hook when all gens were just completed, I was headed straight to save them and 3/4 of the way there, and the killer was busy with another person on the other side of the map. New struggle system, so it couldn't be a finger slip. I once saw someone DC when someone else went down too early and later claimed they deemed the match 'unwinnable...' less than a minute in, explanation never given. Plenty of times I've seen people suicide on their second hook even though the match seemed to be going okay. And the killer has no idea what's going on behind the scenes, so when someone suicides on first hook because their teammates are urban evading along the walls or sandbagging someone in a corner, it's a mystery to the other side.
This is particularly true because survivors often misinterpret the killer's intentions and get angry about things the killer, in their head, is not doing. So for example, a survivor can get flagrantly pissed that I'm camping them because I want to break a pallet that was dropped nearby but I can't remember which pile of rubble it's at, and I'm baffled when they suicide on hook as I'm walking away 15 seconds later.
Anyway, the issue as it pertains to adepts is that it's not predictable and something you can prevent. Even if you play nice and don't tunnel or camp (which unfortunately can be pretty necessary for adepts - you're already playing at a disadvantage, you've gotta break a few eggs unless the survivors are already playing terrible), people are still going to randomly nope out on you. Huge issue if it happens at the start of the match or if too many hook stages are lost.
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@SoapNSpook said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260352#Comment_2260352
Just get more hooks than usual, that means no camping and letting people go to second or death stages at once. Easy.
Do you know how often survivors let each other go to second stage because they don't want to let go of their gen or think someone else has it covered? Or how often survivors just kill themselves for no discernible reason, or ragequit and DC when you pick them up because they're mad they're losing the game? This is especially bad when there's two survivors left, because if they're not both on death hook and you need more hooks to make iri devout, you risk one hatch camping or the hooked survivor nobly suiciding even if you bolt from that hook like it's contagious.
Any achievement that requires other players to behave a certain way isn't going to be easy, because you aren't in control of all of the variables.
It's also a PITA when you've got killers like Trapper that require early-game slowdown that isn't in his home perks, or Doctor whose power conflicts with one of his perks, or Hag who actively wants survivors to destroy one of her perks because perma-exposing survivors will ruin her emblems even if she ignores the mori aspect, or Myers, Billy, Oni, and Bubba who aren't allowed to use their power more than a few times unless they blatantly farm the survivors and let them pick each other up a few times, or Plague whose Chaser and Malicious emblems are entirely at the mercy of survivor decisions if she infects anyone. Huntress and Wraith are also in a special spot where you may as well be perkless, all of their base perks are so terrible, but luckily both of them are strong killers on their lonesome so you can get away with it without too much pain. Pre-buff Wraith was hellish, though.
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I don't understand why Trickster needs a lullaby. Huntress is dangerous because she can snipe you from a long distance, so you need to be wary (and having played against glitched Huntresses that had no lullaby - it's a terrifying experience.) Deathslinger operates off a similar principle, but he can't snipe you outside his terror radius without perks, which is why he lacks a lullaby. But I can understand arguments that want to give him one. Trickster, though - he doesn't have the benefit of sniping. He can't sneakily injure or down you. He'll get 1/4th of a health state on you max before you spook away from where you were and start running. Because of the way laceration works, 1/4 of a health state would only actually hurt you if you had just escaped a chase with him - and if you were just in a chase with him, you are alert and should not be susceptible to being surprised from a distance. A warning element is not necessary because he does not have the power to damage survivors from a distance before they notice him.
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Just had a match where 3 people were alive when the gates were opened; me, a Cheryl, and a Jeff who was in the process of getting hooked pretty far away from my exit gate. I 99 the gate and go for the save. (Cheryl immediately pops the gate behind me, which I was :| about at the time, but it ended up saving everyone else's lives - the wisdom of rank 16s in action.) There's a closer gate to Jeff, and I contemplate opening that too, but he doesn't have enough time left on his hook for me to pull it off. I go for the hook, where Myers is waiting - I take a hit and BT save Jeff, and go down at his hook while Jeff runs off. Myers almost gets him, because the gate is on the other side of the map and it's just too far to run, but Cheryl pops up out of nowhere to save the day and takes guard behind him.
Jeff barely makes it out, Cheryl doesn't. Fully recovered, I start crawling for the exit gate. It's on the opposite end of the map, but what else do I have left to do, right? Cheryl disappears into the sky. I don't hear a hatch open, so I keep at the target I know. I can't see it, because ground POV isn't exactly stellar real estate on a corn map, but I know what direction I should be going in and luckily it's parallel to my corn row so I have a bit of stealth.
I make it past the cow tree and see Myers searching around for me. He misses me twice and moves off towards the direction I came from. I continue the arduous crawl. Somewhere in the distance, the hatch closes. At last the cornstalks part and the grand arches of the exit gate enter my sight. My bleedout timer's more than halfway gone and the EGC is even farther. Myers wanders past me again. He's closing the net, but still hasn't seen me. Few times have I ever been so thankful to be playing Ace.
I'm right at the rim of the gates when suddenly a red stain falls across me. I despair when he picks me up... and promptly carries me the short distance I had left to go and drops me again.
I swear, Myers players are always the coolest people. Wished I could have thanked him for the assist, but he was on console. </3
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Killer adepts should just be 4ks. It'd still be more demanding than the survivor equivalent, but wouldn't require you to contort your playstyle into knots for the whole match. You have to get at least 9 hooks, you can't use your power too much if it's something that causes survivors not to heal or oneshots them, you have to let the team recover if you get too close to wiping them... it's absurd. Already killer adepts are more demanding than survivor adepts because you're only relying on yourself, and don't have three other players to carry you and cover your slack if you don't have good perks or make a mistake - and survivors have the success-from-jaws-of-defeat option of the hatch even if they lose handily, where the equivalent situation that a killer nabs a kill at the end of a bad game certainly won't grant them their adept.
Plus there's the issue you didn't even bring up - it is easier to get killer adepts on newer ranks, not because the players are easier to defeat (though that's also true), but because the emblem system itself is more punishing to experienced players and the window of allowed error decreases the more a player ranks up. Ranks 13-20 can get an adept with two iridescent emblems and two golds, or even 3 iris and a silver. Ranks 2-12 can only get one gold emblem; the rest have to be iridescent. Rank 1s have to have a perfect match across the board - one hatch escape, not quite enough 'chases', all gens got done too quickly even though you clutch 4ked at the end, survivors suicide on hook or leave their fellows to progress too many hook states? Too bad, try again.
Adepts should not be linked to emblems; on both sides, emblems are too reliant on what other players do in the match. Imagine if survivor adepts required you to escape and double pip.
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Just had the same issue. Console Huntress running Iron Grasp, Hex: Huntress Lullaby (heh), Bitter Murmur, and Beast of Prey.
There was one other PC survivor in the group, which was the one who spawned right next to me (so not likely to be locational initialization related), who said that they did hear the lullaby - so clearly this is an issue that intermittently affects survivors, but not the entire team.
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@Dabihwow said:
I might take a chance to get a killer adept
Definitely do; it's free real estate. I got Demo and Nurse today, the last two I was missing of the killers I own. Nurse was only possible because of today; I'd never have gotten teams incompetent enough for my baby Nurse ass to 10+ hook otherwise.
@Midnght said:
its playable just people are rather oblivious to how to work together imho. i mean right now the noob ranks should be full of even veteran players so no clue why they all forgot how to play upon reset lol
The game's pretty unplayable on the survivor side when survivors don't work together. Survivors who don't work together don't rank up, so players who rank up generally see less of their clueless brethren as they improve. Now every game is rainbow ranks and you're getting paired with survivors who don't know what they're doing. The vets aren't forgetting how to work together, you're just not getting 4 random vets in a match now.
Anyway, three more games. I'm rank 3. Synopses:
#1: Suffo Pit v Doctor. First game I survived! ...Because I got paired with a 3man SWF, two red ranks and one green, against a rank 17 killer. Yeah. Had a friendly endgame chat with the killer and the SWF commiserating over the state of matchmaking and it's-all-cooling over tactics everyone used, so it at least didn't leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth.
#2: Hawkins v Trickster. Trickster is rank 7 and I looped him pretty well. Had a rank 3 Nancy, a rank 12 Jake, and a rank 17 Nea. The players left the game in order of their ranks; Nea ragequit on her first down after Urban Evading straight into the killer, Jake played legitimately but unfortunately kept getting caught and couldn't chase very well, and then it was up to me and Nancy to do the last two gens and we death spiraled the first time one of us got hooked. At least I got 3 hooks this time and had a chance to do stuff.
#3: Some Coldwind map, Huntress 4-man slug within the first two minutes. Other players made profoundly bad decisions. First person goes down, second player tries to bodyblock the hook alone when there was not nearly enough time for the carry to wiggle off and also goes down for it. Third player comes for the unhook while the killer is still in the area while I'm lurking around looking for an opening. Since she's being chased, I unhook with BT and pick up the slug, going down in the process. The slug picks up person #3, who had also gone down. All three players remain in the area, self-caring in place or running in circles, instead of splitting up and running the hell away. Everyone goes down again immediately. Oddly enough, the ranks weren't that bad this time - a rank 5, two green ranks, and then a rank 2 Huntress.
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Modifying the files is dangerous, because if you get EAC banned, they're not going to ask second questions. I'm not sure such bans can even be appealed. Nobody other than you can see the modified files, so you're not going to be reported for it even if you play pubs, but if EAC catches it, you're on your own.
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I caught the screenshots before they went down, and yeah, that's reportable even before getting into the targeted harassment portion of them continually trying to contact and play with you. So sorry you're going through that, and that these kinds of scumbags took an interest in you - I really hope something's done about them soon.
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Plague suffers from poor chaser emblems if survivors don't cleanse, especially if you infect survivors before hitting them (because sickness damage doesn't count as a won chase the same way hitting a survivor with your incense burner does, or corrupt purging them does.) It's the same issue as with any oneshot killer who extensively uses their power.
As for the rest, yeah, you don't get good emblems if the game ends too fast. The same is true on the survivor side - survivors that hammer gens and get out with the killer only having gotten one or two hooks will barely black pip. To be honest, I think that's a good thing (outside the context of achievements, where it becomes extremely stupid.) Games that are over in two seconds aren't fun and shouldn't be encouraged.
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2257899#Comment_2257899
I'm seeing WAY too any disconnects. At least five or six per day. It's not even against especially sweaty or even tricky killers. Characters are bailing on their first hook. It's rapidly becoming tiresome.
You know something is up when, after a match, the killer (who won) and one of the defeated survivors (myself) can spend a good three minutes chatting about how lame the disconnecting issue is.
This might be because we're playing against rainbow ranks now. You see a ton of chronic quitters in grey and yellow ranks - grey ranks because they don't know they shouldn't be struggling off hook, yellow because that's the rank where players who suicide or DC most games end up in. When I was organically in yellow ranks, somebody would kill themselves basically every match. (Or be afk.) Took a while to crawl out of that pit because of it.
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I'm getting lots of yellow/green rank survivors on killers I play a lot, but I often let everyone go, so I'm not sure if matchmaking is messing up or if it's functioning perfectly and just thinks I'm way worse than I am because my kill/escape ratio is so terrible.
I did just get adept Nurse, though... and I'm the epitome of a baby Nurse. It was interesting getting it, because my first game was against absolute potatoes and I slaughtered them so hard I didn't get adept. The next few games pitted me against teams that were way better than my baby Nurse ways (a few games that were purples and reds with one new rank player each), I got destroyed a few times in succession, and then I started getting matched with worse teams again and I had a few decent games until I got a yellow team I could get the adept with. (Sadly enough, I just barely got the 4k, which tells me where exactly my Nurse skills are at... but now I don't have to play her for a long, long time, so I'm okay with that.)
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I will always stop whatever I'm doing if a survivor initiates a boop. Start of the match? I guess we're farming. You turn around and crouch mid-chase? You friend now. You boop me right as I stab you? I'll pick you back up so you can do it properly this time.
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For Plague, I want them to fix her hitboxes. I know it's dots and not a stream, and that visually it can be misleading, but there's a major issue where the survivor will react as though they got hit, but not take damage/become infected.
They also should look at her point gains, because it is insanely hard to get good deviousness points on her. I've only gotten above 6000 in matches where I was blatantly farming. Both Corrupt Purge hits and infecting objects should have higher points attached. Maybe 600 instead of 300 and 50 instead of 25 (or there should be a score event from when a survivor gets infected by touching an object you infected.)
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I really like this one. They didn't change anything about him, just made him better looking. Score one for Adam! (He needs the score... BHVR loves to forget pebble man exists.)
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Why are her teeth like that? She was prettier before she got the buckteeth action, even if her hair looks even better.
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@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2257848#Comment_2257848
I agree that the SBMM should take your current rank at least somewhat into account to create a base score for killers you don't play often, but still, I disagree that the game should once again be held back for the sake of newcomers.
New players are still players who deserve a fair experience. If matchmaking is constantly throwing them against highly experienced killers because that highly experienced player just bought a new killer, then MMR is failing to give them appropriate matches and they're being used as some guinea pig/punching bag hybrid for the rest of the playerbase to hone their teeth on. (It's also a horrible design philosophy because people are likeliest to commit or quit in their first stretch of playing the game - if they get throttled nonstop, most newcomers will not stick with DBD, which is not something BHVR wants.)
There really should be a floor based off of your average performance, so you don't start out on grey ranks with new killers unless you're grey/yellow normally in performance. The floor should be perhaps midway between your average performance and rock bottom. Maybe Nurse can be her own exception, because many basic skills don't apply, but I shouldn't get rank 20s just because it's my first Demo match. Yeah, it took me half the match to figure out how to use Shred and his portals don't work like I thought they did, but none of that matters because I still know how and when to chase people as a 115 killer, and the survivors I'm being pitted against don't know the map, what the difference is between a dull totem and a hex totem, or why they should be unhooking people. Those survivors should be up against equally confused killers.
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I think we're seeing a lot more hook suicides/DCs because that stuff is endemic at green and yellow ranks. Like one person kills themselves every match type endemic. People still do it at red ranks, but that's usually in response to a killer they don't like, because people who quit every time don't stay in red ranks. Since we're getting paired with rainbow ranks now, we're seeing more of it.
But I mean, they're still trying to make MMR work because literally everyone hates matchmaking as it is. At least they're trying to do something... and I guess this is a fresh type of awful compared to the stale one, so yay? (I've actually been having pleasant killer games today, with teams that are around my skill level; it's the survivor games that are oofy. I'm going against killers who have no business being in the same game as me, and getting teammates that are... much better matched to the killer than they are to me, let's put it that way. Still, the alternative was dying nine games out of ten because easy emblems push me into a rank I don't belong in and red rank solo queue is hell. So it's no happy medium, and I think the MMR took that death data and overcomped hard, but as far as absolute values are concerned, it's not exactly worse than before.)
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As survivor: I'm getting some skittish teammates and killers that are a ways below me in terms of experience. Like, killers that are missing their swings when I'm running in a straight line, and killers that don't seem comfortable with using their power. Having way more success spinning and looping than I normally do. I don't think I deserve to be in red ranks, but I'm stronger than the players I'm getting paired with right now, when I'm used to almost always being paired with players that are much better than me. So it's nice feeling like I'm able to play the game again, but I don't feel like I'm in the right spot, either. I've handed out some pity kills today, because I'm seeing some new-rank killers get absolutely throttled by experienced survivors.
As killer: So far, I'm getting paired against absolute potatoes on killers I haven't played before, and a really good mix of survivors on some killers I sometimes play with, but don't main. They're decent players, but I'm not getting looped to death and galaxy brain teched. I'm about to see how it lines me up with my mains, but apart from the potato matches, I'm feeling pretty good about this - it's way better than being matched with survivors above my skill level half the time.
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First game I ever played as Demo. Well, I can safely say that the MMR does take into account when it's your first time as a killer... honestly, this is just cheating. Oof. I think the game shouldn't go quite so back-to-zero with new killers; you'll still have basic mechanical skill that's unanimous across all killers save Nurse. It should factor in a bit of your average performance and start you off there, not at beginner ranks.
I'm amazed I got the adept, because it was a very "unhooks? what's that?" kind of team, in true grey fashion. Laurie died on her first hook and David and Bill both got left to progress to second stage. I had to farm them a bit and give them chases where I left the downed person to be picked up by someone else in order to satisfy the emblems. Plus they hid a lot, so it wasn't really a nonstop slaughter kind of match. I guess that counts as taking pity on them... I let Dwight do a few totems in front of me, so hopefully I wasn't that mean.
I'll be interested to see what ranks I get on my most played killers, because I score high with them, but my kill rate is really low from often letting everyone go.
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Huh. That explains why I just ended up in a match with rank 16s (that played like rank 16s, unfortunately.) Match was half red ranks, half yellow. Probably time for me to try and get some of my missing adepts... I wonder if I can get adept Nurse despite being horrible with her and one hundred percent reliant on plaid flannel? Because my MMR rating with her has to be awful.
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Why is his mouth so wide?
I'm really unhappy with this one and Nea - they took two rugged characters, who are supposed to be rugged, and made them all clean and symmetrical. David's had his face punched in a hundred times, I want him to be a bit lopsided.
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Bad survivors can be in solo or in a SWF. SWF mitigates players being bad by other players giving them instructions and telling them when and when not to do things - "don't unhook me, the killer's chasing you, run in the opposite direction instead", "don't open that exit gate yet", "follow me to this jungle gym and then we'll heal", "the killer is coming back, don't just crouch there asking for a heal, ######### run!"
Imagine if you could tell the Blendy urban evading to your hook that the killer is on the other side of the map chasing Nea and that it's safe to run. Or the Dwight that there is zero reason for him to be in that locker right now, will you please get on this gen.
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Hoarder's only use is to pair it with Franklins, play Hag or Trapper, and become the consummate item thief; otherwise it's pure garbage. Oppression is nice, but the cooldown is way too long to be competitively viable with similar perks. Coup can net you some surprise hits, but has pretty limited use and it's easy to waste tokens by accident or by not properly judging the reach of your extended lunge, which isn't intuitive for obvious reasons.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2256375#Comment_2256375
Well that's the point of my post which no one is actually replying to. People just say solos need a buff but not one person has told me how giving the people that cant do chases at all and dont touch gens more perks is going to change that play style..
Being in a SWF doesn't make players automatically good at looping, though. Sure, death squads will pick players who are all gods at the game to be their teammates, but a casual SWF outperforms casual solos by dint of information. You can communicate your intentions and plans to your teammates; if someone is playing stupid, you can tell them that. "Stop looping near my hook, someone else is trying to save me." "He's camping." "Come and get me now - he's busy hooking the other guy, but he's going to come back as soon as he's done, so don't crouch behind that bush, make a run for me!" "That totem has to be Haunted Ground, don't touch it!" Plus all the performance you get off of knowing when and where the killer is occupied, where totems and partially completed gens are, where your teammates are working on gens, etc.
Buffing solos by giving them stuff like BT basekit is stupid, but buffing solos by giving them Kindred actually addresses the disparity.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2254652#Comment_2254652
I have no idea why you think having 4 survivor with traps makes the game harder somehow... you just switch to patrol the boxes...
Well, obviously. And you find one of them immediately, and you chase them, and then the others get their traps off while you're chasing and hooking that survivor. That survivor eventually gets unhooked, gets their trap off too, and that's the end of it. Having nobody doing anything is great, having no more slowdown after that is awful.
It's wasted potential. You slow the game's progress significantly as long as you're chasing one person and another person is doing a box, especially if somebody else is in recovery mode. You're better off extending this state for as long as possible than blowing a lot of your slowdown at the same time. Ruleset #2 blows your slowdown unless you space it perfectly and get lucky with chases vs staggered gen completion, and makes it so that survivors power through gens with more coordination, instead of a more favorable situation where you keep stopping and regressing partially completed gens because fewer people are focusing on them at the same time.
That's the point of wanting to stretch out Pig's traps - you aim to avoid windows of opportunity for people to spread on gens. RS#2 forces those windows by removing the ability to search off the hook.
Plus, unless you're trying to force a kill with the RBTs (which is still unreliable without addons or the survivor doing some major time mismanagement), it's especially a waste to be chasing a survivor on a box search. They're already useless, and while you should clearly be chasing someone whenever you have the opportunity... you'd get better returns on the match if the survivor you were occupying was trying to do something useful. Pressuring survivors on boxes helps kill them if you move them away from the boxes they need, but also requires you to commit to bothering them afterwards.
Somebody who plays more Pig than I do can prove me wrong, but I never like to have more than two traps on at a time. Things don't go much slower with more survivors out of the equation and it just ends up being less time to exercise slowdown. The only time I would want all four survivors trapped at the same time is if those traps were active, I had lethality addons or I could open the gates, and the survivors were very stupid and piled on the same location (the same gen, hatch) so they have to compete for the same boxes or waste time spreading out.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2254442#Comment_2254442
either the stall is now, or after the next gen gets finished... either way, stall
Ruleset #2 kind of... orders survivor behavior? With it, people work on gens and then scramble to get their traps off all at once. But you're better off if the team isn't on the same page and everyone's doing something different. Say one person's hooked, one person's going for the save and will then heal, one person's on a gen, and one person's trying to get their trap off. This is the ideal situation for you, because you can go after the single person pushing objectives and the team won't make much if any gen progress while you're chasing them. Does this make sense? You usually want one person to be trying to do gens because they're very easy to find, but you don't want other people on gens when you're chasing that person because, well, they're getting things done and you aren't in a position to stop them. One person on gens is manageable even without regression perks. Several people on separate gens usually can't be stopped and they'll make progress that you can't regress. Ruleset #2 encourages survivors to finish gens before doing your slowdown, and that's not something you want.
It's the same principle that you don't want to have all 4 survivors with a trap on at the same time. You'd have a window of time where absolutely nothing gets done, like a magnified Corrupt Intervention, and then it's back to 4 survivors again and you're out of traps. Pig plays stronger by artificially creating a 3-man game for 4 times that length, because 3 survivors is the point where the killer can pressure the team faster than they can dig themselves out of their hole. Additional survivors being occupied at the same time has diminishing returns.
The tl;dr is that you want one survivor to be busy at several times way more than several survivors to be busy at one time. So it's more useful to you to have the team disorganized, with people doing box searches right off the hook and you harassing the other three whenever they try to do something, than it is to have multiple people ignore boxes until a gen gets completed and then bum rush the boxes.
Ruleset #2 is only useful if you're trying to ensure your traps are leth
al, and Pig has better addons for that purpose. -
@EQWashu said:
I really enjoy playing Pig. I'm not very good at mindgaming with her yet (I'm fairly decent with em I think), but when I can successfully fake a dash direction and land a hit, its a lot of fun...that and just crouching around and being sneaky.
Also to this day, having had the DLC since week 1 of its release, no one has booped the snoot when I'm playing Pig, and I am very sad about that!
Really? You've never had a survivor go up to you at the start of the match and boop? Quite a few times I've run at someone with my knife out and they crouch and point even as I stab them! Plus there's the "I'm on death hook or you closed the hatch, please spare me" mercy boop. If a survivor randomly crouches and approaches you, they want to boop, but they'll usually turn around and book it if you don't crouch and oink back; if you run towards them, they're just going to think you're attacking.
Booping is also something you can initiate pretty easily as a Pig - at any point, even mid-chase, if you crouch and start oinking, I'd say about 50% of survivors will eventually turn around and boop. Though I guess it's not as satisfying as a surprise boop that you didn't ask for...
I'm just baffled and sad that you've never experienced this magical interaction for yourself. :(
Anyway, if we're talking Pig buffs, what I'd like to see is an improvement on her crouching movement speed and the speed of her crouch itself, and then a smidge more distance on her dash. I'm ambivalent on her traps - I think they function fine as is, even if their value isn't that reliable. Terrible kill tools, pretty good slowdown. She doesn't seem like she's built to be reliable, and I'm okay with that.
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Yeah, that was something I noticed a while ago. New addons seem to be designed very cautiously, like they're afraid to give the killer something that's markedly strong. Granted, the oldest killers have gone through plenty of addon passes in their own time (Wraith used to have Lightburn resistance, lunge while uncloaking, and all levels of All Seeing, IIRC), but killers like Hag, Wraith, Pig, Myers, and Spirit all have addons that seem... very unlikely to be greenlighted today, because they drastically add to the killer's performance instead of being a few relatively safe number tweaks here and there. Even the new gameplay style options are worse - take Hag's silent traps or ability to teleport to inactive traps, or Wraith's wallhacks or being able to see which gens are being worked on whenever, and compare that to Pyramid Head getting undetectable if he walks on a trail, or Nemesis gaining 15 of undetectable when he punches a zombie, or Trickster's thing where he exposes you if he gets you to maximum laceration, but only if he M1s. The older examples have way easier use conditions and are more present in the match. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of useless old addons, because there are, but new addons aren't made the same way and I think they could stand to be a little less conservative, especially with iridescents.
There's only one recent killer that stands as a counterexample to all of this, and that's Blight. Man got some really powerful and creative addons, like hindering survivors near his slam locations, or a speed increase for consecutive rushes, or undetectable whenever rushing (which is something he's doing all the time anyway.) I want to see more addon sets like his.
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I'm ambivalent about keys unless I have a reason to want a 4k (adept, rift challenge.) If they brought a hatch spawn offering, I'll go to confront the key bearer at the spot when the conditions for hatch are reached, but other than that I just play normally.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2253659#Comment_2253659
Graphically updating the game seems fine to me. This isn’t a complete art style change or anything it’s just touching up her model a bit
Eh, there's touchups and then there's changing how the character looks. Nea has different facial features now, so if you preferred her old look, you're SOL.
I've liked most of the model reworks they've done so far, but that's because they were mostly cleaning up overly dark lines and giving more detailed, realistic textures. A lot of people get tetchy when they go further than that and distrust model updates as a result. (And if I assume that Plague's rift skin is based off her new model rather than her old one, I'm really, really not looking forward to her inevitable model rework.)
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I hope so, because I'm not a fan of what's been shown. Yeah, she looks prettier, but she lost all of her personality too. I liked the rugged, defiant expression she had, jagged eyebrows included. Now she looks generic and kind of sad.
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@gemjas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2253219#Comment_2253219
Crouching up and down has several meanings, though. The meaning can range from "thank you" to "good bye" to "haha I win" and etc.
Like, there was a killer that came here a while ago that described the epitome of a meme game, and at the end he complained about the survivors t-bagging after he let them go. But what he described was most likely a "thank you" crouch that many survivors do after being shown mercy. There was another instance I remember where a survivor was crouching at his teammate for a heal and the killer saw it and assumed it was directed at them.
Not saying this applied to OP, but in general some of you really need to take context into account instead of zeroing in on someone pressing a button a few times. If the match went well and there wasn't any other instances of toxicity, then there's no reason to assume you're being insulted.
I do take context into account, though? That's largely what my post was trying to convey - communication has context and unanimously-agreed-upon meanings, and it's not just gestures into a vacuum. I play survivor, I know the language - survivors tbagging each other is basically always friendly unless they're bodyblocking or taunting another survivor that's downed/on the hook. If the survivor is crouching at me because I spared them, or because we farmed, or because we ended up in a silly scenario like getting stuck on each other or having a staring contest, that's probably friendly. If I see a survivor tbagging through an aura perk like BBQ or Lethal Pursuer, it's probably not directed at me. And if the survivor is tbagging at the gates and we've had no friendly interaction before, they're tbagging while trying to bait a chase, or they're tbagging at pallets/juked hits, they're being dicks. There's also a bit of difference between two/three crouches and rapidly spamming the button dozens of times; former is more likely to be cordial than the latter.
Anyone who tbags at a killer they haven't otherwise communicated with at the gates to convey thanks isn't using language properly. That's like me using a middle finger as a friendly greeting. Yeah, your message is getting misconstrued, but it's not because the killer is making assumptions, it's because you're using a message that has a widely agreed upon meaning to mean something else. Nodding, crouching without tbagging, and especially dropping items are all way more agreed upon ways to show thanks to a killer you haven't established a rapport with.
But my point is that anyone claiming tbags don't mean anything is disingenuous and asking you to pretend nobody has motivations for their actions. That's all.
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@gilthadas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2245597#Comment_2245597
Intentional DCs? Uh, unless someone's mom is demanding they take out the dog, or such, yes it does. :)
Nnnnnoooo? Have you played killer before?
I play the friendliest damn killer around and survivors still DC plenty. I never tunnel or camp unless someone asks for it by hard BMing me, I switch up targets and spread hooks, I give second chances if I feel bad for the survivor for any reason, I leave survivors alone when they're funny or cute, I target sandbaggers and leave sandbaggees alone, I've never touched NOED in my life, I sometimes run Devour Hope but then keep hooking people even when I can mori them, et cetera. Half the time, when given the choice, I don't even kill anyone and let everyone escape with 2 hooks. The following DCs still happen in abundance.
-"I got downed too fast at the start of the match" or "That hit was bullshit"
-"My cool tech didn't work"
-"I don't like who the killer is" (or the rarer substratum, "I don't like my teammates")
-"This match is taking too long"
-"I want to spite the killer, because if I DC right before going up on death hook/after they closed the hatch, then I didn't really 'die' and they didn't actually beat me"
And the worst, if you're a Deathslinger - "I want to glitch the killer into being completely impotent for the rest of the match"
Survivors being angry enough to DC has a correlation with how the killer is playing, but it sure as hell doesn't mean the killer was being toxic. Sometimes it just means the killer wasn't losing horribly, and the survivor angers easily or has no tolerance for going against certain killers.