Kebek
Kebek
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- Kebek
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I wonder how will devs respond to this (if at all). I'd be nice to see some further changes to DS making it more of an anti-tunneling perk rather then anti-momentum perk.
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@Ghoste said:
The change seems healthy and fair to me. Question is, will Deathslinger receive similar treatment? He has the same issue as PH where he's able to zone without using his power.
Oh my, as deathslinger main if he gets the same treatmant I'll be so happy. Giving him M2 cancel CD while buffing his power to be less punishing to use/miss would be pretty sweet change.
The zoning is used mainly by bad slingers so I would be all for such change.
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You don't even know the numbers, it could literally be 1-2 seconds. If you think faking the power will somehow disappear you're very wrong. It would have to be insanely high (like 5-7s) CD to make it disappear and that would never pass through the PTB.
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I nicely wish them a good day and report them if it's warranted.
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My man I get why you want that but that's a really bad idea for several reasons. I would be against creation of such perk unless it had really heavy disadvantage paired with it. For example permanent oblivious status effect on yourself.
Actually, now that I think about it, if it worked like that I would be for creating such perk. But seriously, it would need some downside, not just free BT for yourself without any disadvantage.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642943#Comment_1642943
So now I ask you why is it meta? These perks were never meta except DS, but it was a second chance back then. Tunneling is often and so is slugging.
I find it very hard to believe with no obsession killers dont tunnel but if not nice for you. I actually havent been using DS DS because I handle chases. I have been running OoO, Adrenaline but then you have these killers running noed. Even a noed p3 nurse. Granted she lost. I digress running and slugging are legit strategies and DS/UB are legit counters.
Why are those perks meta ? Probably since they punish/counter strong killer strategies and can be used pretty offensively as well.
Even when they aren't beiing used killer has to play around them so most killer just rather always play around them then risking getting hit by them. These perks all try to force killer to play in a way that creates 12 hook games which is fun for survivors but is the least optimal way to play killer.
I'm not against their design but I think they could use some further changes to make them more in line with countering those annoying strategies rather then enable dumb bold plays that would be suicidal without them.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642911#Comment_1642911
Guess you have good luck but because of how prevalent tunneling/slugging are, DS/UB became meta. You can deny it and say it doesnt happen to you which is fair sense it doesnt happen to every one. It is very consistent. If it wasn't consistent these perks would not be meta.
Tbh he's not the only one. Whenever I see everyone claiming how required some of the survivor meta perks are I often just wonder if people do get matched with hard tunnelers/campers so often or just forget the good games after 1 bad game.
I don't really use most of survivor meta perks and even a lot of my teammates don't (to the point where there aren't obsession in my matches at all) but killers still don't hard tunnel/camp most of the time unless you force them to.
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@Blueberry said:
Not sure why Lucky Break doesn't function like Iron Will already.
I've been asking for such buff since the day Lucky break came out. Still waiting.
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@Izo_Quartz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642808#Comment_1642808
I couldn't care less about the new trigger, the new in-game function is much mroe important because with no function, the perk is nothing more than a handicap for extra bp. Also explain how picking up a dying survivor 0.1 seconds faster is so effective
Well you may not care but most people use WGLF for the BP stacks so they do care a lot.
You can use it to pick up someone who was very recetly slugged and didn't have time to recover yet. I see survivors forcing fast heals on recetly slugged survivors decently often so it's not like you will only get a chance to use it once in 20 games. That's better then most niche survivor perks.
If you were expecting some huge new effect then you're severely overestimating devs willingness to create strong perks.
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You're also getting new trigger conditions which is far more important. Also faster healing on downed survivor goes exactly in line the playstyle WGLF supports. I think the healing increase suits it really well and is actually pretty decent effect.
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I think PH's changes will be more of a buff rather then nerf overall but that's just my opinion. Once the changes are out it'll be more clear how impactfull each changes actually is.
On the pop nerf, tbh I agree with it more or less. I don't think that 60s on pop was opressive but devs have a point that you can chase and down another survivor and still get pop value pretty often (I've done it many times). 45s is still good enough for low mobility killers to cross the map and pop a far away gen so I think it will be ok.
Still, I'm hoping it's not all the perk changes there are in the patch and if it's only those mentioned that they'll do more of these perk update patches more often, they are needed.
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I don't think it was needed. Imao it would be better if he didn't have it but I won't complain about killer buffs too much.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1639700#Comment_1639700
"If you're anwer is something along the lines that freddy can spam snares while clown has to reload then the person using the botles isn't probably very good with them so that can't really be a reason behind it"
Well, this is in conflict with your first post here, where you said that it is wrong to call Freddy skillful. Clown at least has to hit with the Bottles (and aim with them), while Freddy can just spam Snares. Freddys Skill Ceiling is low, you can be as good with him with 100 hours like with the first game.
I think that Clowns Chase Tool is at least not stronger than Freddies Snares. They might even be weaker, at least for the reason that you actually can mess up with it - and lets be honest, nobody is perfect and even good Clown-Players will throw a Bottle into a slightly wrong direction.
But on top of the similar Chase Mechanic, Freddy gets a Teleport (which allows him to use Pop Goes the Braincell while Clown has to jiggle to the Gen), Oblivious and Slowdown Add-Ons.
You're probably confused me with seiko300 since this is my first post here.
But just in case you somehow didn't, I'll say that having low skill ceiling killers who are also good isn't a bad thing for DBD. Every killer wants to chill from time to time and just play a less taxing killer while also not getting stomped and freddy is perfect for that. Not every killer should require insane amount of perfect power usage to justify him being good. Freddy is stong and simple to play, nothing wrong with that.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1639538#Comment_1639538
How can someone be so biased to actually think that anything on Freddy is worse than anything on Clown? Clown basically lost his right to exist when Freddy got reworked.
Wait, you're saying that clowns gas is weaker chase tool then snares ? Can you explain the reasoning behing it a bit please.
If you're anwer is something along the lines that freddy can spam snares while clown has to reload then the person using the botles isn't probably very good with them so that can't really be a reason behind it. I can't think of anything else that's better about the snares when compared to the gas.
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Lack of lucky break buffs.
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Don't worry, others are holding back as well. My 1300+ mori collection is rarely used as well.
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The same thing you do vs any killer with decent/good chase power. You stay outside of their reach and play unpredictably.
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You need to hope they don't perfectly split up on gens and that you'll get a good map or just be overall lucky to find them.
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@Kumnut768 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1635630#Comment_1635630
the problem is it doesnt take skill to just put things between you its not engaging for either side
Well tbh it's the same thing you do vs nurse. How many people do you see who can juke good nurse while in the open and close to her ?
Same with DS, you need to cut his LOS and get as far away as you can or you're in trouble.
I guess people hate him so much because he shares quite a bit of her mechanics in terms of "counterplay". Nurse was generally hated by survivors since her release, only after her last "small change" which made nurse pick rates drop drastically people stopped complaining about her and found new targets.
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Spine chill, both are good but imao spine chill fits me more.
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I never got the idea of calling a perk crutch. Yeah some perks like DS or NOED are extremely annoying to get hit by but there's really nothing bad about running them. They're in the game so anyone can feel free to use them as much as they like.
I personally would do some more fine tuning on most problemtic perks especially on these two perks I mentioned as one of the biggest offenders for both sides. Their ideas are good but execution could use more work.
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Hopefully never, he's in a pretty good spot imao. I wouldn't be against some very tiny nerfs but anything then slight number changes is totally unwarranted.
Having good killers is needed so that there's variety. Buff weak killers insted of nerfing strong ones.
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@MrLimonka said:
You can dodge a lobby with a key. You can't dodge a lobby with a mori.
And no, just because someone escaped by hatch (with or withou tthe key) does not mean you get "bullied". That means you would've won the match anyway, and the real downside is just you losing some bloodpoints.
Tbh you can't really dodge a lobby with a key as long as last second switching exists. Just pointing that out.
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You see, the code is the same but aesthetics are not.
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Tombstones just need to all have the change of myer's stance in all tiers with mori hand on them baseline. Othen then that, they are perfect.
Once the mori hand is there, you can counter him with lockers.
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Depends on what you consider fun. I find him extremely boring to play vs. His power is mainly for mobility and can get lucky hits if random obstacles spawn correctly and/or if survivors don't know how to play against him properly which isn't that hard.
Most of the time it's the same boring M1 gameplay loop with occasional "me run fast so me get free hit because map spawn good" paired with fun you can't do gens until ruin goes down minigame.
Still even when I'm bored to oblivion when I vs him I don't dc vs any killer or some other dumb reason like that.
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This thread with so many people claiming they have right to do whatever they want in the match is so ridiculous. Did any of you ever read the rules on what gameplay is allowed and which is not ?
Afking, dcing, holding the game hostage, abusing exploits etc is all in the game but is also not allowed to do freely since it's not intended way to play the game.
You can't do whatever is fun for you be it dcing when you aren't having fun or whatever else, especially on account of others who's definition of fun you don't even know. Please stop with your nonsense.
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I don't think so, he was designed with ability to quick sope and de-scope fast and during PTB (main time to give feedback if you want to see killer get changes) no changes were asked to change this. Largest part of the hatewagon appeared long after the proper time to ask for changes to killer's power.
Next is most likely clown since he's lacking in more areas then one or some killer with in-complete addons.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1628265#Comment_1628265
No, you actually would never beat a killer who is on your skilllevel if he has a mori and he wants to kill you, so forget about that.
The ideal nerf would be that every survivor has to be hooked once. Still very strong but not broken op as now.
You seem to forget that not all killers are spirit or nurse level. Killers like Legion are powerless even if they have mori vs good teams.
Imao ideal nerf would be that mori activates after killer gets random 4 hooks. Then, killer can kill any survivor no matter if they were hooked. This can be easily nerfed again if it still proves to be too strong by easily increasing the number of hooks before activation to 5, 6 etc.
This way killer is still in control of activating his mori and it can't have it denied by Hivemind of friends (SWF) telling their last buddy to perma hide until everyone else is not death hook.
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You put enough LOS blockers to increase your chances to win the prediction of his attack and do your best to reach as far outside of his reach.
Do plays that would be normally really weird like double fake windows, run through pallet just to inta teleport back to bait out the M2 cancel and stuf like that to make him question when it's safe to use his power. If it's a random non-animation lock shot you can react to it via dodging.
There isn't simple answer since his power is strong as powers should be. It's not like wraith etc where you just drop pallet and you're 100% safe.
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Actually they were changed once already so just like other old OP ultra rares they were changed, just not enough.
Imao they aren't as bad as people make them out to be (they are very strong but it's not like I never managed to beat good mori killers as long as I had good teammates) but some medium size nerfs (not to trash them like last hook mori idea) would be fine.
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No, gen speeds are fine, kicking gens would do pretty much nothing unless it was regressing at the same pace as reparing which is a really bad decision. If you kick a gen survivors are trying to force you're wasting your time no matter how fast it regresses. You can only gen good regression on gens if survivors completely leave the 50%+ finished gen you just kicked which only potato survivors do.
It's the early game that is problematic. First 2-3 gens basically get done for free since killer needs to get the ball rolling in a map filled with pallets while beiing pressured by 4 survivors split on 4 gens at the same time without anything else to do. Slow survivors down in the early game so that they can't get free gens with a perfect 3 gen split and gen speeds are golden.
Once killer gets his first 2 hooks, gens slow down a lot as long as he can keep up juggling survivors so either fixing early game or lack of pressure from saved survivors is what gen times need. If those problems are fixed, several other issues will lessen in impact such as tunneling (not saying it's going be gone but tht killers will feel less preasurred to tunnel in attempt to slow the game down) to better manage last 3.
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Switching from a chase to a survivor on a gen is almost always better then keeping on chasing. I'm always amazed when I work on a gen and a killer is chasin a survivor really close (enough to hear me) but doesn't switch to me. Like it's really bad play not to switch unless you're literally 5-10s from dowing the chased survivor.
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@Peanits Would it be possilble to share any info on this matter ? I too noticed that DM don't seem to affect SC so it would be nice to know if it's bugged or intented even when perks like botany do affect SC.
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I really dislike design of blights power (no matter if it's strong which it is), it's really boring for me. Like, I'm happy for anyone who enjoys to play him or go againt him but for me it's really boring experience on both sides.
I hope next killer will have something new to offer, not just a mix of previous ones.
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Chain tiles, his biggest weakness no matter the perks he decides to use.
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Deathslinger and Ace.
I play most of the other killer occasionally but most of my playtime is set on slinger since he came out. Norhing comes close to be as fun for me as slinger is.
And obviously Ace is the best survivor without any competition so there is no need to play any other.
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@Clevite said:
Relatively short is relative.
You got me there.
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@MrLimonka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1619291#Comment_1619291
Survivors also get better over time and will try to predict the killers' predictions too..
And the thing is, Spirit with stridor and PH don't need predictions, because they are guaranteed to always get a hit. With spirit you just need a basic headset and with PH simple common sense. No skill involved.
You're free to think so. I haven't seen a great spirit or PH in a while. So many of them miss their power so often and are quite jukeable. If it's as easy as you say then a rank 1 killer base must be full of noobs which is what we're balancing around otherwise some SWF changes would happen already.
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Next mid-chapter patch is supposedly have perk reworks. I really hope for some meta changing stuff and a lucky break buff to make it permanent.
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@MrLimonka said:
You are using terms like "god tier curves on billy", "Doctor's perfect timing" "Perfect dashes on Oni". Yes, of course, if a killer masters a chosen killer, then of course he's gonna stomp a lot of survivors. All those killers have counterplay though - you can just pre-drop pallets. You are wasting resources, yes, but you can actually survive for a longer period of time.
Most stealth killers can be countered by just being observant or just by running spine chill. There are also tactics that counter a lot of killer powers.
Spirit and PH? You don't need a lot of skill to play them well. No need to master them, like the other killers, because they have the most brainless powers.
PH is ALWAYS guaranteed a hit if he fakes his power on a window. No counterplay there. No mindgames you can apply.
Spirit, if running stridor, also has no counterplay. Even Iron Will, the only perk that remotely counters her doesn't help at all.
You see, those are expressing that perfect gameplay doesn't exist and with every killer you're be sooner or later forced to make a prediction on both sides which will usually be killer sides to an extent. You'll rely on killer misjudging his distances, misaiming his power or something like that. Claiming that killers like spirit or PH don't need to predict what survivors will do is silly since they do. All killers need to make predictons just as much as survivors.
PH is guaranteed to get a hit on a window but only if you allowed him to get close enough. At that point half the killer roster can guaranteed a hit if they have time to hit you with their power.
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I wouldn't worry too much. Old freddy was hard countering stealth with his perma wallhacks and invisibilty + his RNG based opressive stall. He just didn't have a simple way to make him more in line so he needed full rework.
Clown just needs buffs in a few aspects to make him slightly more competetive, not a full rework by a longshot.
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@ClickyClicky said:
I think what some people mean is a hard counter. When Trapper is chasing you at a jungle gym, you drop the pallet and that's it. He can't get you. He has to break the pallet and then you can run to the next.
With Spirit/Nurse dropping the pallet isn't necessarily the end of it. They can still play around a pallet or loop. However you can juke both of them, you can predict their next move and do the opposite of what they expect, this makes them miss and extends the chase until they're able to use their power again, however it's not a black/white scenario like dropping a pallet against an M1 killer is.
Things in the game that legit have no counterplay, endgame DS, BT etc Dead hard for distance (if your killer doesn't have the add ons) etc etc none of this has counterplay but it's apparently fine because it's on the survivor side.
Well you're at that point not countering his power but basic chase mechanics and the RNG of him not having trap there. If you run into the tile where he has trap in a spot to block of the pallet you're getting hit no matter what, you countering involved. Trapper is just inconsistent, you need time to set up and RNG to have people run into your traps at times where you can capitalize on it. Nobody complains about him not because he has counterplay but because it takes him ages and RNG for him to become uncounterable.
Spirit does basically same thing as trapper but people don't complain about trapper because his power is horribly slow and inconsistent while spirit can use her whenever to get the same effect faster and more reliably.
I wish people stopped calling some things uncouterable especially when both sides have so much stuff other side has little to no control over which is fine at times. Not everything is mean to have a hard counter.
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That's how pro-SWF teams play. They pre-throw pallets whenever they would get to the point of beiing in danger (meaning they loop while it's safe) and their friends rush gens under 5 min. Unless you play high tier killers, you can do pretty much nothing against this since gens will be done before they run out of pallets and switching targets is a waste of time since all of them do this.
It sucks but they are pretty rare so nobody considers it a problem.
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@azame said:
Ok so perfectly played powers cant be countered but no one is gonna play perfectly is that your point you are trying to portray?
The problem is with killers like ph,ds,spirit you only have to be good to make the survivor guess what you will do.
An equally skilled ph vs a survivor the PH will win becuase of his zoning. Same goes to DS he can insta shoot or make you dodge.l and gain distance.
Basically yes, I hate the pretense that counterplay vs some killers exists while against others it doesn't. All killers have some amount of counterplay since nobody can play their killer perfectly and never make a bad prediction or badly judge/use their power.
I can see the frustrations with zoning and from my point of view I'd be fine with adding M2 CD on release on both DS and PH but it wouldn't change anything about how you play against them. You still need to predict when & where they'll use their power, the people who get frustrated with getting hit by their powers will still get hit by them as long as they get out of position to give them time to shoot.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
Counterplay is being able to take given information and attempting to play around them. Spirit is a coin toss, Trapper you can disarm and play around how he traps. One has counterplay, One is a gamble
You can't disarm mid-chase and you can't know where he placed his traps be it tall grass or anything else that will hide them or blocking your pallets/windows entirely.
In chase, you rely on him not having his traps set in place you loop. Other then chase, ofc you can counter him but it's the same as saying you can counter spirit by just not getting chased.
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I'd lessen the active duration time to like 20s but make it work for both phases while also making it trigger by killer beiing in 16m of the hook 1s before you hit stuggle phase or death.
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I'd put a cooldown on it. For example:
Every 30s your and killers aura is revealed to each other for 5s as lond as you look in their direction.
That would imao still keep the idea of the perk but prevent the constant "killer is doing x or is there and going x" abuse that is possible now.
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Tbh hex perks are supposed to be strong since you can cleanse them. Many hexes are actually rather weak for how fast they can be cleansed.
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Thank you, you always put so much effort into these. We really appreciate it.