KateMain86
KateMain86
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066045#Comment_3066045
Whose fault is it that the majority of the Survivor playerbase is bad at the game? The game shouldn't be balanced around the people who don't know how to play the game, simple as.
If they're not having fun, and also don't want to get good, they should stop playing.
Also, Dead Hard isn't hard to use, it's only hard for the Survivors that can't look behind them in chase while running in a straight line
And guess how many survivors don't know how to look behind them in a chase while running in a straight line? I've been playing for over 2 years with nearly 2500 hours as survivor and I still see survivors not doing this all the time. I have argued before that this game needs to fundamentally change. How it plays overall needs to change. Saying the survivors who don't want to "get good" should just quit is not the answer here. Its just not reasonable to expect the majority of survivor mains to play like the top skilled players. Its just not going to happen.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066048#Comment_3066048
The Killer is TRYING TO KILL YOU. If you want a game where you are not in danger, but you really like running, I recommend Wi Fit, or maybe a Track & Field game.
"Survivors just want to have fun". is a subjective statement that depends on what is fun for you. The way half the Survivor Community talks it sounds like they want Killers to pretend to chase them so they can feel good about playing a game of Tag, but have no action lethality to it. I say again, he is trying to KILL YOU and he is under no obligation to follow your made up "fun rules".
The Killer is not your birthday clown and he is not here to entertain you.
When the killer tunnels you out of the match within the first minute or so, that is not fun. When the killer camps your hook to make sure you don't get to play the game, that is not fun. You're completely missing the point here. It doesn't matter that killers are not obligated to play under "made up fun rules." What matters is happy customers at the end of the day. No one is asking for killers to give up every match and let the survivors run around under no fear or pressure of being caught. In fact I would argue that is why most survivor mains play survivor in the first place. They want to be chased by a scary killer. What they don't want is to feel like that interaction was a lost cause and the match ends faster than it took for them to get into it.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066034#Comment_3066034
You hate it because you are LOSING.
What you call "sweaty" is just playing the game to win. Stop trying to use it as a pejorative.
Killers playing the role of killer is not "toxic".
I beg to differ.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055964/#Comment_3055964
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065672#Comment_3065672
If Survivors had fun only because they had a free, uncounterable chase extender, they weren't having fun because of the Perk, they were having fun because of the easy wins the Perk granted
I never said DH was the only means survivors were having fun in this game so I don't know why you replied in such a way to imply that. You're completely missing the point which was this perk offered a lot of fun to survivors and the way it offered fun before is changing, which may not be received well on the survivor side of the game. DH is by no means a "free, uncounterable chase extender." This perk requires skill to use successfully and it also had to be used in the right places or even dodging an attack with it can get you downed. I've now had 5 matches in a row tonight that ended in a quick 4k for the killers and all the survivors that had DH didn't helped them out of any of those matches. Most survivor mains don't play this game on a sweaty level so balance changes like this are just going to make the game more frustrating to play for the majority of survivor mains in my opinion.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Why do people continue to act shocked when killers take you out of the game?
It's their JOB.
Yea but when a game becomes a job its not a game anymore. Sweaty killers ruin this game. There is a reason survivor mains have been talking about camping and tunneling in a negative light for so long. Its because we literally hate it and it makes this game unbearable to play. I just had 4 matches in a row that had killers so sweaty it made me regret playing the game tonight. Tunneled every match and the killers won with 4k and I think only 1 generator in all 4 matches got done. This kind of sweaty gameplay has to stop because it is ruining this game. Survivors are sick of the same pattern of playstyles they consider toxic over and over again. Why do you think there is always threads here talking about camping and tunneling? Its because it is a problem in this game whether you believe it or not.
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@Veinslay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065923#Comment_3065923
Yeah it's purely coincedence that 99% of the players trying to be Aryun or something are running Iron Will & Dead Hard and spend the entire game trying to troll the killer. It's not because the perks are obnoxiously overpowered or anything coupled with poor map design and objective timeliness
No idea who Aryun is and you proved my point. "99% of the players" trying to mimic any particular person is probably less than .1% of the entire player base and yet those are the people that get survivor mains stereotyped.
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@Veinslay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065672#Comment_3065672
Yeah! How are we going to clicky clicky and troll around in front of the killer and then E to the safe pallet if we screw up now??
And this is why the game will never be considered balanced by the community. The actions of some create a negative stereotype for survivors that is then considered the usual gameplay.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065672#Comment_3065672
Having an insta win button to extend chases you would otherwise lose is fun sure, but that doesn't mean it should be a thing.
I'd rather the game be balanced and take the Survivor's broken toy away.
It was only an "instant win button" if you timed it right. DH required skill to give a positive return on its use. Using it in the wrong spots as well, like near walls, corners or other objects that would stop your movement, would also cause the perk to have negative consequences too. It also caused exhaustion, which disabled the use of other perks that require you not to be exhausted. DH is a perk that offered reward if used right, but consequence if used wrong which was usually a down because you have to be injured anyway. In my opinion, it didn't need to be changed.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065853#Comment_3065853
Such posts are often looked down upon in here.
That why I said I don't know why OP would do it, since it is something people tend to react negatively towards.
Yea its a shame. Players should be interested in why people quit rather than criticize it.
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@GeneralV said:
In a way, I understand how you feel, though it is not for the same reason.
DBD was no longer the same game I fell in love with back in 2018, so I left. As simple as it can be.
I don't know why you would announce it on the Forums, but all of us have limits, things that can make us leave the Fog.
If the game is no longer fun for you, then you are doing the right thing.
A long time player, or any player for that matter, saying why they are quitting the game on the forums is feedback on the player's experience of the game and can be valuable to the game developers for possible future improvements. The OP didn't just say "I'm quitting cya." They explained in detail why they are quitting. Its better than just people quitting and never knowing why.
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I think that is where the mark is missed with this game, that it truly is just a fun party game. The fun I had with SWF back when my friends played was way more fun that it was or ever will be in solo que. The reason why that was is because we didn't care about winning more than we cared about the crazy random shenanigans we had together. The fun, laughs and jokes I had with my friends and the memories we created together will always be more valuable than running through that exit gate. I feel like the desire to have this game balanced has taken more priority in player's minds than the desire to simply make it fun. The question is how do you make the game fun when you have so many players who define fun differently in this game? I think it goes back to what the game is, a fun party game, and how fun shouldn't be based on whether you end the match escaping as survivor or 4k as killer but rather how enjoyable your interactions were during the match before it ends.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065672#Comment_3065672
Well, if DH was the only fun factor in chases something is wrong with the game I'd say
It wasn't the only one but it was definitely the most fun. Players will always gravitate to what works the best and what they have the most fun using.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065672#Comment_3065672
As someone who never used it outside of tome challenges I won’t miss it. Sure, I have my favorite perks but I’m not so reliant on any that I think the game will lose its fun if they are changed.
For me it won't be much of a problem. I used to use it awhile back but it was more problematic for me than useful because I was never great with the timing. When it did work it was very fun and it did make for some really fun plays for me. DH before the change is a big playmaker perk. Its been the norm for years and people are used to it. Everyone that used it in their loadout is now going to have to either adjust to its change or find another perk to make up for what they lost using it before. How all the DH users receive this change will matter. People like their fun and when that fun is changed and something just as fun is not given in its place then they will likely have a problem with it.
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The DH change is going to take a fun factor away from survivors that was the center of the most exciting and fun plays they ever had since it was added into the game. This is probably the riskiest perk change ever for game balance. I don't know what the overall reaction is going to be when it goes live but I do know that if there is enough backlash to its change I wouldn't doubt if DH goes back to the drawing board.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/325803/noed-rewards-failure
If NOED bothers you that much then have each survivor break one totem so the killer cannot use it.
Its kind of hard to do that when the only communication option you have in solo que is the lobby chat and your team usually being on console if you have cross play turned on. I can't have them do anything if I can't even communicate with them. Its all up in the air when you do solo que.
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@Tsukah said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6QBCIH59JJCF/60d38ecdd3a5e.jpg
Resident Evil 2 (2019)
Is that a mod for Jill in DBD? If so it looks great and nostalgic. If Claire was a survivor instead of a skin I would bet this would be one of her outfits. The RE 2 remake look for Claire looks cool but the classic is better and I'm glad they included it in the remake as an option.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3064214#Comment_3064214
How about remembering the place and cleanse it after all gens are done.
I'd have to find them first, right? Finding totems on some maps is a challenge in itself without totem finding perks and maps.
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@Swampoffering said:
Really Sluzzy? xD
Dead Hard rewards failure giving you more chances to extend a chase and fixing your mistakes as survivor (Thanks god nerf is near)
Unbreakable rewards failure, you get downed and you can revive at zero cost with faster recovery speed.
DS rewards failure, you loose your chase FOR SECOND OR THIRD TIME and your reward is a free stun to the killer xD Pathetic perk.
Broken maps as Crows-Cowshed-Garden-Haddonfun-Puzzle, rewards failure, doesn´t matter how bad you are as survivor, that maps give you an excesive amount of resources (Pallets-Infinite loops on windows or strong structures) to fix your mistakes.
The entire actual survivor meta build is just a reward for being a potato player xD What the hell are you talking about complaining about noed, a Hex Totem that you can counter cleansing dull totems instead of genrushing? Learn to play man, for real. I told you a few days ago and I repeat.
I am not the best killer on DBD, I am really really far from the bests ones, and the 7 times we got matched, I destroyed you and your entire team with 2-3 gens left man, playing M1 killers on maps like Puzzle, killers are not the problem, your zero skill level is. Stop pre dropping every pallet avalible and condemning your team to death on the first 3 minutes, learn how to play instead of complain for everything. Nobody can take you serious if your level as survivor is the same as a 50 hours players
Having to cleanse 5 totems to prevent 1 perk from activating is not a fair trade. I've tried doing it and almost every time I did half or more of my team was dead with generators still needing to be repaired. I even had totem cleansing builds. Its easy to say "just do bones" but its not as easy to do it.
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Having a match where I was the last survivor and the killer had noed reminded me of this thread. They found the hatch first and closed it. This activated their noed and even though I had a key waiting in a spot I placed it and a hatch offering so I knew where to go it didn't matter because the killer had 1 perk that granted them WAY too much power in a 1v1 situation. It didn't matter I helped do 4 gens, ran the killer, cleansed a hex totem and unhooked everyone that got hooked. Surviving until the end meant nothing because the killer had 1 perk that allowed them to instant down me because a totem was left uncleansed. If I would've been able to take a hit I at least would've felt like I had a chance, but when I got instant downed I felt like everything I did was for nothing. I just wanted to add that under no situation should NOED activate for the killer when there is only 1 survivor left. On top of the fact that this situation already favors the killer, having the ability to instant down the last survivor is too much.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
"doesn't deserve a fair chance at escape"
The point is that you and the rest of your team already had your chance and you either blew it or got outplayed. Why should you then get to escape?
Because solo que doesn't guarantee you'll have like minded team mates who know the game as well as you do. Relying on your team for everything is always a risk. Also you're clearly not reading my posts because nowhere have I said nor implied that my suggestion would make the last survivor "get to escape" so I'll ask you to read my OP and replies again and then get back to me if you continue to want to talk about this.
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@Warlord1981NL said:
"Ever since the last hatch change I have felt like the hatch has heavily favored the killer. I have had many matches since then where it comes down to just me left and the killer finds the hatch before me most of the time. Once that hatch is shut its pretty much game over. You have a limited amount of time to somehow fully open an exit gate that killers can easily go back and forth from on most maps before you get any considerable progress on them. I've thought about bringing a key every match but that seems unreasonable given I only have so many and these situations don't happen every match. I'd run out of keys fast doing it this way."
This is total nonsense. The hatch by its very definition is not something killer wants. Ever. Under any circumstance. Look at it for a second from the killers perspective: The killer does well, has the survivors down to the last guy. Great! Oh wait, free escape option Hatch spawns in for no reason at all, now the last survivor can get away by the hatch that the survivor can see and the killer cant. Even if the killer manages to close it before the survivor gets out, then the doors unlock regardless of how many gens have completed giving the survivor not 1 but 2 more chances to get out. Not only that, if the survivor has a key then they can also re-open the hatch giving them yet another chance to escape. How you do not escape is a mystery to me. Like how many chances do you need? How in the world is that favourable for to killer? The answer to that little riddle is: It isn't. It is just something that takes points away from the killer who earned it.
If it were up to me there wouldnt be a hatch, the exit gates wouldnt open, it would simply be game on. It is absolutely ridiculous how many extra chances you are handed for bad performance as a survivor. This is why I slug, no point in hooking the 3rd survivor for the 3rd time if all that results in is a ton of freebies for the survivors. If I play great and you dont then I deserve my 4k and I WILL have it.
And how do you know the last survivor didn't play well? You're assuming the last survivor did nothing and should not be granted any chance to escape other than completing all 5 gens under your idea of how the game should work. When you say things like "if I play great and you don't then I deserve my 4k and I WILL have it" that tells me that you assume the last survivor didn't play well under any circumstance and doesn't deserve a fair chance at escape. You wanting them to have to finish all 5 gens as the only option is extremely unreasonable and unfair whereas my suggestion still requires the last survivor to find the key and the hatch all while the EGC timer is going down and the killer is still active.
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The cenobite chain mechanic being overpowered especially paired with gen pressure addons and hex builds. I had a match last night against a cenobite with a full hex build and it was nearly impossible to get gens done on top of having to deal with the hexes and the box to prevent chains.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
The hatch is a last ditch escape option in a game that is essentially already over, and the surv isn't entitled to just because happened to be the last one to die. And while sometimes that final survivor is the last one alive because they played the best, just as often it's either just chance, or because killer wanted to pound the tallest nail(s) first (remove the better players first). In an even match the order survs are killed in is essentially chance.
Why should you get a pass just because your teammates happened to die first?
Also, if this is a situation you often find yourself in, the new Sole Survivor may be for you. It pretty much ensures escape unless you are incompetent or the gates spawned right next to each other.
Thats why my suggestion isn't a guarantee anything. It requires the survivor to not only find the key but also the hatch all the while the EGC timer is going down and the killer is still roaming. This is not a "get a pass" situation. It forces the survivor to also choose between going for the exit gate or taking the chance to find the key and the hatch in time. I don't see this as being a huge thing in favor of the survivor. The killer already has the speed advantage when the hatch spawns so they are more likely to find it first. If the survivor then had to find a key somewhere on the map and then make it back to the hatch I would say they earned that escape. Its not like they were just handed the key. The odds even under my suggestion are still in favor of the killer.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063687#Comment_3063687
There is an addon/offering that let you keep the key despite a bad outcome. You only need 1 key for the 4 man team.
Those ward addons aren't common either. I have less than 50 of them on my main survivor. My suggestion has a key spawn on the map with no guarantee anyone will ever find it.
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@hastarkis said:
You can make KYF, ask one of your friend to hide the key and then start looking for it. With timer. There two possible outcomes:
1) Find a little key on a map is somewhat impossible without any special notification about location (and any notification would be too unfair, I think).
2) You can bring Chest Looting perk (don't know its english name) showing all lying objects' auras for you.
So, looks like there are two opposite edges with no middle at all.
And looks like your idea is lowkey implemented already, you can give up one perk slot for Chest Looting perk and find a good key with a very high chance. In that case you can prepare early in the game: find key, hide it or take, then spot and follow the killer until they find hatch for you. Then killer goes on a patrolling walk between gates and you open hatch right behind their back. Voila.
I've thought about using Plunderer's Instinct and using coin offerings to increase my chance of finding a key but you never know when the other survivors will search the chests. It also only increases the chance at finding one, so there is still no guarantee to get a key. My suggestion would only have a key spawn somewhere on the map that can open the hatch. Maybe it can be there from the beginning so you never know if someone found it unless they showed you.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063673#Comment_3063673
if you want a key every game - bring one.
If only those purple and red keys showed up in every blood web. Like I said earlier, I've spent I don't know how many millions of BPs on a single survivor and the one I have spent the most on only has around 50 of each key. If they were more common I would bring a key every match.
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I beg to differ! Sometimes the killer just wants to hang out around a fire and remember the good old pre-entity days.
But anyway, as far as camping, tunneling and slugging there is a reason why people have been and continue to talk about these things in a negative light. Its because to them its a negative thing. The killers shouldn't see these as legitimate winning strategies. Instead the killer should be incentivized not to do them and have a rewarding reason not to.
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@SuzuKR said:
The last survivor is supposed to have an overwhelmingly low chance of escape if the hatch is closed. The hatch was already their last second chance, and they just lost it.
And with my suggestion in the OP, they still have an overwhelmingly low chance of escape. I'm not exactly asking for a red carpet out the exit gate here you know.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063029#Comment_3063029
Where are you getting the 70% from? A survivor's ability to get to the exit gates is reliant on more factors than you're counting in. First off, it matters what killer is being played. Blight or Artist - there's basically no chance for the survivor to escape regardless of gate distance. Same if Demo, Twins, or Trapper set up earlier in the match, or reached the gates before the survivor could. Nurse, Wraith, Sadako, Dredge, Doctor, Oni, and Spirit all have a strong albeit less perfect advantage in gate patrolling - Billy and Huntress as well as long as it's an outdoor map. Then it comes down to map RNG, which... yeah, there are definitely gate configurations your bog-standard M1 killer has no way of patrolling. Most common offenders are RPD (guaranteed), Swamp, Yamaoka, and Coldwind, in my experience. But you're just as likely to get gates where the killer can easily patrol or has LOS on both gates from a midway point, and in those cases you're guaranteed dead again, even with the 20% trick.
And even in the situations where the gates can't possibly be patrolled or are fairly balanced, it's still a coin flip on whether the killer checks your gate first. Higher if your last known location to them was recent. I definitely don't have an 80-85% escape rate as the last survivor, or a 15-20% kill rate on the last one left.
As for the OP, eh, I don't think survivors need to have their odds improved when they already lost the game. It's the same idea as when killers complain about 99ed gates or bodyblock conga lines. The hatch is a Hail Mary, not a solid plan of escape.
Does my suggestion really improve the odds of the last survivor escaping by a large amount? Its still a risky situation and the survivor has to choose between exit gates and hatch as well. If the survivor chooses to look for the key it could be anywhere and they probably won't have time to get an exit gate open if they don't find the key in time. Its a huge risk but its one they can make when they feel the exit gate play is hopeless. My whole take on this is that the last survivor shouldn't be left with such a risky situation that their options all come down to just 1 or 2 things. My suggestion doesn't guarantee anything for the survivor to escape. All it does is give one last chance at a hatch escape if its closed first but requires a lot of work and huge RNG favor for them to have any chance at this working out in their favor. I think it was a pretty reasonable suggestion honestly.
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@akaTheBARON said:
This is one of those scenarios that really doesn't need a change at this point. It doesn't impact the game much, and at this point the killer has simply won. If you get hatch, great. You escape and a 3k is still a win for killer. But having hatch at all is just a bonus.
That being said, I wish they'd do something with keys since the big hatch nerf. I'm fine with that hatch nerf but keys basically do almost nothing useful anymore. I'd like it if they got rid of all keys and just keep the iridescent ones. Those are the only ones that bring you any real value aside from unlocking the hatch which doesn't happen often enough to justify bringing one. I'll bring one in with that stone that reads killer aura, and the beads to add time to it for fun sometimes, but thats the only time I feel like bringing in a key is worth it.
Get rid of all the other keys, or make keys do something else (what that would be IDK).
This is why I am talking about this anyway. The last hatch change was so much of a nerf to survivors I nearly quit the game over it. I still can't believe it was changed as much as it was. Keys are largely useless now in my opinion and bringing one is taking a big risk in whether its even going to serve any use or not. I can see bringing a key now and then and hiding it somewhere as a backup plan but survivors can't do that all the time. I've spent millions of BPs on a single survivor and I only have around 50 of each key on them.
I don't see the situation as "the killer has won." If you read my OP through you'll see that what I suggested still requires the last survivor to find both the key and the hatch for this to work out for them. All the while the killer is still there and the EGC timer is ticking down. This would not be an easy thing for survivors to do and I wouldn't even see it as something happening successfully that often. It is only just another option with a very risky chance of success for survivors to escape.
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@Header said:
i would say the hatch stuff is actually in favor of the survivor.
finding the hatch is around 60/40 since the killer is slightly faster, has a power (probably) and he could also find and kill the survivor. if the survivor found the hatch first its a free escape. if the killer found it first he can either camp it (forcing the survivor to do gens) or close it, in which case the survivor has to go for the exit (or get a free escape with a key). the chance that the survivor can open an exit gate in time is about 70%, since, unless the exit gates are next to each other or the killer can see both of them, there is no way he can patrol both of them in time. i would say the total chance for the survivor to escape is around 80-85%
I don't agree with these numbers. In my experience as a survivor main (nearly 2500 hours) opening the exit gate as the last survivor has almost always ended with the last survivor dying. I'm not just talking about me either. I'll often spectate the rest of the match if I die early to see how things go and I can tell you from what I have seen the last survivor usually doesn't make it.
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@LastShoe said:
No, at this point killer won the game and because of that hatch is in his favor. It's the same reason why when exit gates are powered with 4 survivors alive game is more survivor sided... because survivors won (unless they do a really dumb stuff)
The killer wins the game when the 4th survivor dies. The last survivor made it that far and that often wasn't an easy thing to do. To throw them in a situation where it can quickly go in favor of the killer regardless of how well you did that match is rather unfair. And I can't help but think no one is reading my OP in its entirety which doesn't surprise me. My suggestion still puts a huge burden on the last survivor to survive. They would still have to find the key AND the hatch. This would not be an easy thing to do. All it does is make the killer choose between doors or hatch so they aren't left just going back and forth between doors which is usually a hopeless situation for survivors.
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@Jasix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055980#Comment_3055980
Being tunneled ≠ Being chased - being tunneled means you are immediately focused on while already injured off the hook. Most tunneling killers gain distance by waiting out BT and then simply getting an easy down. Not sure why I am even replying to a banned account.
Yep. There's really no improving with the ability to run killers when you're pulled off the hook at the will of whoever is unhooking you. Its completely out of the hooked survivor's control. If the killer decides to tunnel its pretty much game over for that hooked survivor unless there is team intervention which is never guaranteed in solo que. Even when I did SWF, dealing with tunneling killers was a pain and we weren't always successful.
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@neb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055983#Comment_3055983
ah you're right, so everyone is just bad and everyone can go for 12 hook and 4ks and win, they're just bad!
Wow, this person just solved all of our killer problems!!!! Give this man a round of applause!!
No. I never said that. I was making a point and you interpreted it as me saying that for some reason. The point was its possible to play and enjoy the game without resorting to tunneling. Is it only a win for you if you get 4k with 3+ gens up every match? Are you able to have fun if you don't get 4k every match?
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061944#Comment_3061944
Wait I thought your favorite was @GoodBoyKaru
Mildly amusing at best. The mods here are by far my favorite forum members. 😉
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The mods of course. What would these forums be without them? 😀
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I think if killers leave survivors on the ground for too long then they should naturally recover without the use of a perk. Perks should only speed up that process. I've been full slugged from a full bar many times before and its just boring. If after a minute the killer doesn't pick you up then you should be able to begin recovering without needing to use a perk.
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The Samination videos are hilarious! 😂 Every time I get a match with the trapper the voice they use for the trapper in the videos always goes through my mind.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058462#Comment_3058462
It's on the survivor for failing that first chase. Every survivor gets 1 hook as a result of their individual effort, the other hooks are potential chances given by teammates. Getting hit off hook if a survivor failure in that the teammates not only made a risky unhook but also left you exposed to be downed again. A single teammate can usually cover long enough for a loop to be reached.
The bar for looping a killer is extremely low; in most cases just reaching a pallet can ensure enough time to reach the next. Multiple loops on one tile just comes with knowledge gained through play.
The punishment for a survivor being downed after the first chase is... being hooked. Going after that same survivor right after the unhook is basically punishing them again for simply being thrown into that situation unwillingly. You know overall I've seen 2 kind of killers play this game. The kind that see the opportunity to tunnel a survivor and choose not to feeling its wrong and unfair, and those who do it anyway and don't care at all. Those who do it anyway I feel like take winning in this game way too seriously.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Death by tunnel means the survivor failed to escape every chase. It's not the killer's fault if a survivor can't succeed without a full reset once off the hook.
Being downed right off the hook isn't the survivor failing to escape every chase. Its the survivor being thrown into a situation where the odds are heavily in favor of the killer. Again this goes back to the idea that survivors are supposed to have this general idea of how to run and loop killers like the high MMR players do. Most survivors just hold down the run button and the expectation that most of them should do more than this is not realistic for this game. There is nothing fair or a failure on the survivor's part for not getting out of a tunnel situation.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058373#Comment_3058373
Tunneling and Camping was always the best way to play the game as Killer, if you are fine with it being boring to play, but getting the results.
Now it just gets buffed with the next Patch.
I'm worried at the idea of the 2 things survivor mains complain about the most in this game getting any kind of buff. If this is true, its not going to sit well when all this goes live. This is going to be interesting to see how players respond to it.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058373#Comment_3058373
They've always been meta, but there have been many times where they were just "a" meta and not "the" meta. This certainly isn't the worst iteration of balance the game has seen (far from it) but it is one of the more restrictive balances the game has seen for quite a while.
I haven't seen any matches from the PTB. Are killers really doing it more now that it has become "the" meta? Are the changes so different that they fill the need to just make this the norm to counter them? This doesn't sound very promising for a survivor main like me. 😐️
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@Hi_Im_Chucky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056059#Comment_3056059
Killers get “pleasure making the game as miserable for survivors as possible” because they’ve been abused and humiliated by the over-abundant SWF groups UNFAIRLY using constant communication to remain in control of the match.
REVERSE UNO CARD!
Seriously silly to blame the existence of SWF because of the playstyle of Killers. I’d easily argue that survivors are the strongest share-holders of the toxicity because their of MORE OF YOU, and YOU OPERATE UNDER GROUP-MENTALITY, so when one of you is tunneled or camped you feel ‘justified’ to group pile on the Killer and all future Killers. Thus antagonizing and mocking any and every Killer you ‘beat’ and viciously attacking anyone who didn’t play exactly how you wanted. Why do you think the ‘survivor rulebook meme’ is a thing haha.
You can say what you want about Killers being toxic and trying to justify survivor actions as nothing more then a ‘counter’ to the Killer negativity but nobody but ignorant survivor mains are gunna believe that xD
I'd love for both sides to stop treating each other like crap. Here's the problem though, theres only 2 ways to do it. It can either be a community effort (which will never happen) or through dev intervention. The question comes up though, how can they do it in a way that satisfies both sides? I personally don't think tunneling will ever stop. As far as toxic SWF groups, they will always be around and will do what they do with or without a reason. Its unfortunate but some people just find pleasure in bullying others in games and DBD is a game SWF groups can easily do that in. I will say if killer mains tunnel because of people like this, maybe save it for them and give the rest of us a break.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055979#Comment_3055979
... "every time I play this game to try to deal with toxic killers who think its Ok to rush down someone right off the hook. If theres anything unsportsmanlike in this game, its tunneling."
Its this and those super well organized teams, that prevent EVERY. SINGLE. PICKUP 'n' HOOK. with either a flashlight save, bodyblocking and/or saboing. I know that being part of this makes you fly and think that you are the king of the world and you can tackle anything and nothing can stop you fufufu! .. but if you ever are at the receiving end of it while you were just trying to have a fun and casual game, you might question yourself whats the point of still playing and you might end the game with 2 hooks on two different survivors and everyone falling over themselves in giving you one final flashlight or twerk to the face.
Right now the only moment when I can somewhat relax my gameplay is when I turned the game into a 3v1 at 4 gens, because now things slow down enough that I have time to deal with all the DHs thrown at me and still enjoying the game. An early 3v1 seems nearly necessery, otherwise its 4E *gg ez* and all the BMs you can think of.
Being tunneled out of a match, especially early in the match, is far more frustrating than all of the things you mentioned. Why? Because survivors are powerless to stop the killer from tunneling and the match only ends for YOU when everyone either escapes or dies. You can literally chase a couple survivors and break a few walls and still get more points than a survivor you tunneled out early. If you're being body blocked, run mad grit. A hook got sabo'd you were going to use? Walk 10 feet the other direction and you'll probably find another one. Flashlight saves? Look up and run lightborn. You have options to deal with the frustrating things survivors do to you. Survivors have way fewer options to deal with the much more frustrating things killers do to us. Tunneling is extremely bad for this game. I'm not joking when I say I personally know people who after thousands of hours put into the game and financially supporting the game for years have quit and trust me I've tried to get them to play again. They say the same thing every time, "Its not worth it." For something thats supposed to be a means of entertainment to turn into something so frustrating people don't want to be a part of it anymore, I think its very important for them to focus on the things that drive people away from this game. Its not fun to feel powerless and have a large part of your experience with the game being tunneled out of the match faster than the load screen took to put you in it.
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@Huge_Bush said:
Do yourself a favor and wait a few more months before diving back in. Devs have nerfed and buffed a bunch of things and it’ll be better to check it out once the dust settles. As of right now, Tunneling and Camping are meta and it’s not really fun for either side.
Matchmaking is still poo.
Has tunneling and camping ever not been the meta? 🤣
I'm curious to see if it'll happen more or less after the changes. My guess is killer mains will try to be more aggressive with it and it'll probably happen more often for awhile then feel like the same old thing again.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056010#Comment_3056010
It offers experience to people who don't know how to loop well lol. Yes its considered a win this is a team game its supposed to be played 4v1 this is the biggest problem I have is the 1v1v1v1v1 mentality. The point of playing games is to win right and if you say no then you shouldn't worry about if you got tunneled because you don't care about winning.
You're missing the point as to why survivor mains always complain about tunneling. Its not about winning for them. Its about having at least a chance to get out of a hopeless situation so they can play the game longer than it took them to get in one. The only experience tunneling offers to survivors is how frustrating the game can be. And killer mains wonder why there are so many SWF in this game. Its because they're tired of dealing with toxic killers who gain pleasure from making this game as miserable as possible for survivors.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055979#Comment_3055979
I'm sure when you first started playing and got tunneled you went down a lot faster than you do now. That right there shows improvement and that tunneling helped you get better. Its not unsportsmanlike to tunnel its the killers job to kill you that's the only thing they are supposed to do with mmr being a thing that's the win condition. So in the same way you don't like getting tunneled killers don't like losing because they cant get kills. Camping on the other hand is a HUGE problem in this game if its done before end game.
"Its the killers job to kill" is probably the most common argument I see when killers try to defend tunneling and honestly I don't think its made a single survivor main change their mind about tunneling being bad for the game. Tunneling has not helped me get better. Why? Because for the most part the same outcome happens now as it did when I was tunneled back before I reached my first 100 hours of playing. The difference has been miniscule and it has not been for lack of trying. The situation itself heavily favors the killer and without intervention from the team the outcome is going to be largely the same regardless how many hours you have in this game. Rarely will I escape a tunnel and most of the times I have were back when I played SWF.
Being constantly tunneled doesn't make survivors better at this game. Its not a learning experience to improve by any means. Tunneling has only ever made me regret playing the game the times it happened.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056000#Comment_3056000
What is a game you think people should play competitively?
Does DBD have a competitive community and if so is it big enough to influence the overall player base to see the game in a competitive light? People can play any game however they want. Clearly some games have more of a competitive nature to them than others. DBD is not one of those games in my opinion. I don't think most players, survivors particularly, care to ever play this game in any kind of competitive sense. Unless you have some idea to make most survivor mains want to play this game competitively then you should understand why things like tunneling are constantly mentioned in a negative light and always will be.
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@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056007#Comment_3056007
Yes they did exactly and they did exactly what they were supposed to do. Why do they have to do all these extra things that maybe you like doing to enjoy the game the way they are playing it.
Tunneling for whatever reason, "50 win challenge" or not, is not a good thing is the point I was making.
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@Cybil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055964#Comment_3055964
About the job part...
My first game today was against a youtube streamer who was attempting a 50 win streak. I just wanted a casual fun match and they tunneled some poor guy at 5 gens while using the best add-ons and perks... They literally pit you against people playing this game as a job sometimes and it's infuriating.
And when people start playing the game like this its not really a game anymore in my opinion. Instead why can't people do things like this but do it in a way that makes it more challenging for them, like winning all 50 without tunneling, since they're treating it like a challenge. People coming up with their own challenges that can force them to play in a toxic manner in turn makes the game miserable for others. If they tunnel to accomplish this, did they really win? I guess in their mind they did.