KateMain86
KateMain86
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1857142#Comment_1857142
Like i said you can save your key in various ways and while it does take more points to get keys your also getting other things so i wouldn't consider all the points used to get to the key in a bloodweb points used specifically on the key. In my view you spent 7k-6k (idk why i thought it was 9k for a UR node) for a key. You can also find them in a match and in any case where the key gets used even by other players is a case where the key was not wasted, you might not have benefited but because it was still useful for the survivor side the points where not wasted.
If you truly are having that much of an issue with franklins here's an unfair BS tip, just last second switch to the character with the key or simply drop it off at the start of the game so you can use it later. BOOM you can pretty much ignore franklins and when hatch spawns play stealthy so you don't get found and lose your key. You can get tunneled but too bad, keys are super unfair and against a good group the key holder practically has to die and you have to hope it's not a swf if you cant delete it with franklins. Until keys are reworked you can't complain for getting tunneled for bringing in the most unfair thing on the survivor side.
Now for other items that are not a key it can be argued that it is not justified to lose them but the thing is it's a 4v1 game. Survivors can all bring a good medkit and assuming the killer doesn't bring franklins all the time they saved healing themselves can result in the killer barely applying pressure from injures. The same thing is with toolboxes but to a lessor degree, with them they can be used to quickly finish a gen before the killer can stop it which is arguably better then the time saved with medkits in a situational sense. Any item in the game can also be found and used during the match so the combined strength of all the potential items survivors can bring/find again justifies franklins being as it is. while items are not needed to win they can still help you do so or even be the reason you won a hard game.
As long as items and their addons are as they are it justifies franklins being able to delete dropped items, otherwise they will simply be used later in the match. As for an addon that prevents your item from being dropped that wont be implemented as only 1 perk makes you drop items and as said it is justified, you would also have to make that addon for each item and i just don't see the devs doing that. If it was a perk that did that it would be fine and much more likely since your using a perk to counter a specific perk that is used against items.
Keys are not "the most unfair thing on the survivor side." How many times do I have to say that keys are CONDITIONAL! I can't use the key until all generators are done if no one is dead and if I'm the last person I have to find the hatch and not die before I get there. Without hatch offerings, a map or left behind good luck finding it. I really think that if they ever change keys to make them any less valuable than what they are instead of making them more useful then a lot of survivors are going to quit this game.
Something else to consider is that items deplete. We can't use them forever so eventually with enough pressure the items will no longer be useful at a certain point. This idea that survivors playing items gives the killer in any way an unfair advantage is beyond ridiculous. I have seen killers destroy teams using the best items in the game. The keys are not the problem. Franklins is a problem because if the killer gives even a little pressure to you good luck getting your item back. I lost 2 purple flash lights in a row recently to franklins just trying do the flashlight challenge and didn't even get to use them. I hardly even see the purple flashlights appear in my blood web so I have to spend a lot of points just to get them to appear most of the time.
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Honestly I'm going to be very disappointed if there isn't an option to switch between the current and new hud in the options. The new one is probably going to be pretty great for killers but for survivors I'm just like... why? Make it optional please.
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@SasukeKun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1855986#Comment_1855986
which is why this mori change is the dumbest change when it comes to the subject. Now nobody will get mori'd they'd rather just die on hook. So spending blood points on it and all that we can't even enjoy it over some butthurt survivor loser, that time with how it is now, fair and square.
I mean killers should be grateful moris are even in the game because what do survivors get thats on the same level as a mori? A flashlight flick and tbags?
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The 1 hook moris before were by far the biggest deterrent from the game for me above everything else. They were so unfair that I can't tell you how many times I stopped playing the game. It got to a point to where I would only do swf 1 day out of the week. This change has actually made me want to play more often even though I think there are more things that need to be changed in the game. 1 hook moris were simply not fair.
I also don't understand why killers keep using the key as some sort of major survivor advantage. Its not! KEYS ARE CONDITIONAL! Stop using that as your go to excuse every time they change something with killers. You HAVE to do 5 gens to even use the key if everyone is alive and if everyone is alive at that point then what is the killer doing wrong? If 1 person dies I STILL have to do 4 gens to use it and so on. If everyone dies and you're the last one you'll find yourself wishing you had a key. Keys are in a great place and I hope they stay that way.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I am so hesitant to play anything above a yellow item in fear that its just going to get deleted with franklins.
What's the point of having better items if you're not going to use them? Items get lost all the time, Franklin's or no. It's no biggie to lose your items - you'll get more! Granted, I have like 1100 hours now, but I consistently use strong items in my matches because I simply have too many of them and I don't want to just lose them for nothing when I prestige my characters.
As others have said, if the killer has Franklin's, you can also find a place to drop your item or you can just use it quickly (if it's a toolbox or sparkler).
I do use them and I lose them all the time. However I get to keep them even if I use them (unless its consumed after use) if I escape with them still in hand, right? Its always super fun to play a rare item, get to use it and escape with it or even something better from a chest. I'm not asking for complete item immunity here. If I die and I don't have item protection attached then I should lose the item. I know that risk and think its perfectly fine. However franklins is what I have a problem with. And again this is situational and circumstantial. For example I could have a rare item knocked out of my hand with franklins and lose it but also end up finding the same item or something better in a chest or from another survivor and escape with it. This is more so likely to happen if I have plunderer's and other luck increasing perks or offerings in play so really you never know. I've never had that actually happen for me that I can remember but it is possible. The likely thing that will happen though is that you lose your item if you don't recover it. I just don't think complete item deletion after a short duration is fair with franklins. Unless you have a super aware team or doing swf your item is probably going to get deleted. In fact the only times I can think of when my items don't get lost from franklins is when I do swf save for the rare times a random survivor finds my item and picks it up.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1856559#Comment_1856559
wow you lost 1 out of the 40 you have, omg so unfair i lost a broken item i barely spent points on to a perk!
in case you didn't noticed i don't think losing a item you have a ton of is unfair, you will lose it anyway if you die and why would you use a white ward if you have a ton of the item your using. The perk is balanced because of how items are in this game, they are not need to win, only one is broken so using franklins on it is no big deal, and you didn't spend that much bp on them. in your case lets assume all 40 of those keys are skeleton keys you spent a total of 360,000 bp on them and on average you make 20k bp a game meaning if you used all keys back to back you make 800,000 bp meaning you got back 440,000.
So your whole "I lost points" is actually wrong, and in the cases of games you escape you make more than 20k bp so in reality you probably made closer to 1 million bp even if we include games your tunneled since you will probably make 20k in those games.
edit: also lets not forget the addons, white ward, and just escaping which allow you to save your key, even when you bring a key your not usually going to go against a killer using franklins. so if you wanted to you could play way more games with keys than 40.
Oh geez.. where to begin. Well, your whole example of me only spending 360k bps on those keys is not considering the millions I had to spend to even make that many show. And nothing is guaranteed in the blood web either as far as I know. Last night I had I think 4 matches with different killers who each played franklins. I lost 2 keys to franklins and a 3rd was picked up by another survivor who was able to barely escape through the hatch with it so that worked out. Franklins is a permanent perk you can use forever. Items are not. I can play addons to preserve the key on death or even after use but no matter what I attach to the key franklins will delete it if I don't pick it up in time.
I do not make 20k bps per game that I am tunneled in. In fact many of the matches where I am either camped or tunneled early in the game I lose my item and end the match sometimes with less than 7k bps. Using keys is very risky also. A lot of killers in purple ranks and up know about key plays and they are going to check the hatch as much as the doors if possible. Even in the fair matches where no tunneling or camping happened I sometimes get downed and die with my key being lost. I don't know why some killers have this idea that playing a key is just this super unfair advantage a survivor has over them. That key is conditional. Your franklins is not. You hit a survivor with franklins and your item drops. No other requirements. I have to do all 5 gens to even be able to use my key if everyone is alive when that happens. If only 1 survivor dies I still need 4 gens done. If 2 die I need 3 gens done. The key is very conditional. I can't tell you how many games I died and lost the key because we simply did not get enough gens done and there are killer builds that make doing gens a very hard thing to do.
I just want to have peaceful and reasonable discussions about this. Its just feedback. There is no need to get all worked up and try to make the person you don't agree with with feel like they're just flat out wrong. We can disagree but ultimately this is a feedback forum and everyone should post their feedback based on their experiences in the game both killers and survivors.
Lets talk about ideas that could be potential changes to the things we don't like about the game. In the case of franklin's demise another idea I have is to instead of changing the perk itself, give survivors an addon that prevents the item from being dropped when hit with franklin's. Addons makes items more powerful. In the case of a key, I would have to take up a slot that could be used for being able to see the killer, other survivors or prevention from becoming the obsession in exchange for having protection against franklins. Maybe give the addon charges for example it will protect you from 3 hits from the killer and after that the addon stops working. I still also like my other idea I mentioned before in how the perk can simply disable the use of the item for a duration rather than making you drop it. Both to me seem like reasonable changes to franklins.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1856538#Comment_1856538
doesn't matter the key can be picked up and gens are flying as your doing that. again why do you think i said 3-2 escape?
Also it is the only perk that works against items, unnerving presence is a meme perk that barely does anything against any item other than a flashlight. Unless you lasted too long you can always go back to pick up your item or in a swf have someone else do it and then drop it to save it. IF you did last long enough for the item to disappear then you wont need it since your team probably has more gen pressure then the killer can stop unless they saved you late.
items are not needed to win but they can be used to make it much easier to do so, franklins counters items to a extent so it is by no means unfair as it is a gimmick perk that against good players doesn't influence the match drastically unless of course it killed a key. Also who cares about the points used to get the items you spent a MAX of 9k points on a item and you only lost 1 out of the 10 or more you have.
Those items go away pretty fast depending on how often you play them and escape or not escape. I have spent millions of blood points on a single character and still only have about 40 keys total (purple and red) which if I decide to start playing them go away very fast. Weeks or even months of point farming is gone in a matter of no time if I want to play some key games for a day or 2. You also need to consider that survivors who play solo are not always going to get teamed up with team players. A key can give you a better chance to escape when your team is literally throwing or goofing off. There are just so many circumstantial elements with this.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1856519#Comment_1856519
yeah no keys in a swf is a easy escape. they are toxic for how easy it is to abuse them to almost always escape with 3-2 players no matter how well the killer does unless you and your team royally messed up.
you do gens and a good swf can usually get to at least 1 gen left, then they just plit up find hatch and escape with ease. that is not balanced, skillful, or fair. even for solo's if they know someone has a key they just remember who had it and get it when that person dies, even if only one escapes it still notifies the other survivor to either wait by a gate or go to hatch and escape.
keys are simply not fair when against competent survivors. you can try to argue against that but you can't deny what i said above, also simply because you found hatch with a key doesn't mean you should be able to instantly escape as finding hatch itself is very easy for good players.
Not everyone does swf... I do one day out of the week for a few hours. When I play solo I need everything I can get to simply have somewhat of a chance in many of the matches and often times no matter what I do it won't remedy the situation. I mean you literally can see hatch offerings and the item in my hand in the lobby before the match. How can you think keys are toxic when you literally can see the play trying to be made before the match even starts? I think keys and hatch offerings should be hidden from the killer so they have to discover that possible play in game. Thats just my my opinion and feedback on the matter though.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
It's also not fun to go against 4 flashlights or a bunch of good tool boxes and medkits. Even keys are a extreme nussance.
The perk is the only good one against items, don't like it too bad we also don't like what you can bring into games.
Forget the fact killers can choose to hard focus the person with those items they don't like or even regardless still choose to play in a toxic manner. Survivors need those rare items in many situations to simply give them a chance against tough odds. Franklins is an unfair perk. I'm sorry you don't believe that but from a survivor perspective spending all those points to get items is not an enjoyable experience when you think about how the killer can take that item from you in more ways than just killing you. We can't play white wards for every item we play you know and I don't even think those work against franklins anyway.
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@Aquamarine said:
Franklin's is just a better alternative to lobby dodging. Many killers dislike keys so much that they just refuse to play against them and leave the lobby. Others run Franklin's and destroy the keys, which is better.
I bring very rarely any items with me but instead loot some chests and use whatever I happen to find. You shouldn't expect keeping the items (or you life, and then you lose the items too) when you enter the trials.
Using Franklin's would never be worth a perk slot if it just disabled the item for a short time. This game is not all about survivors' fun. Killers need their fun too.
It absolutely would be worth the perk spot. Think of an end game situation where a survivor has a key as a last chance to escape and you find them. If you hit them, you would disable their ability to use it long enough to probably catch them if they can't stay away from you long enough. Out right deleting the item is not fair. I'm sorry but I truly believe survivors have it a lot tougher in this game. Not all survivors play on a super experienced or professional level. For me, there comes a point where a game feels like a job and then it is no longer fun. If I worked super hard to be the best runner or looper in the game then I'd probably end up hating the game very fast because for me it would be more stressful than fun.
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@Junylar said:
The perk is perfectly fine. Learn to play without items: I bring items only when I have to do a challenge, so rarely even know the killer has the perk. The perk isn't even that strong: it's just a toxic perk that counters toxic flashlight and key users: an eye for an eye. It's one of the most balanced perks in the game at the moment, so leave it alone, please.
The perk is not fine. Flashlights and keys are not toxic. Flashlights give the survivors a chance to save their team mates when no pallet is nearby. In all the times I have tried to do it I have pulled it off I think maybe 3 times. Keys are also not toxic. They give survivors a backup plan for when either killers are playing toxic or when you're the last one and a door play is out of the question. Franklins is a means to further limit the survivors ability to escape against what often is not so good odds. Your solution of "learn to play without items" does not address the problem here and is a very one sided perspective. Items are meant to be played when you want because you had to play to earn them. Why should I restrict myself on that option? It is not one of the most balanced perks in the game. A perk that literally deletes your items that you spent blood points on (which by the way are not always easy to obtain playing survivor) is not in anyway balanced or fair.
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Sorry about that. It was the first time it happened to me so I thought I'd just post it here. Since its known though I guess this thread can be deleted. I'll search the forum next time to make sure its not already mentioned.
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Don't get me wrong. I think DH for the most part is fine. The only thing that really bothers me with it is the ability to kill survivors. Now I don't know everything about it. Is that part conditional also such as they have to be hooked at least once or does it matter how many times you've been hoked? It just feels like the hex gives killers a big advantage. I think the instant down along with the ability to kill you is too much. Maybe keep the instant down and remove the kill part? Or maybe make the kill part ability last for a minute after the totem becomes active so the entire team can't be downed and killed because we missed the hex totem. Just some ideas on it but ultimately its up to the devs. I'll try to be more active in finding the totems because if it stays the same then thats the only hope you have with it. :)
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@OBX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1855428#Comment_1855428
Out of your last 100 games (though judging by this post you likely haven’t played that many) have you actually had a killer get to 5 stacks and mori a survivor?
I literally cannot remember the last time I’ve died to a devour mori. The second you get the notification of devour hope after the third unhook, every survivor stops what they are doing and goes to get the totem.
seriously though, how many times out of last 100 matches?
I have 940 hours played in DBD. I don't consider myself that good at the game and I don't want to make my experience with it more stressful than fun. I honestly don't know how many times I died to a devour hope death. I know its happened enough to make me not like it. This is a feedback forum also by the way and I am giving feedback on something I think needs a little adjusting in the game. No need to get worked up about someone's opinion on the game. Also if you think about it, in time a lot more killers are going to be running DH because in a way it sort of brings back the previous mori given after 5 tokens (a hook gives a token right?) you can kill survivors. So basically its just adding 1 extra hook needed to get the old mori back. Totems are not always easy to find. Sometimes they are but I've had matches where I was trying to find them and only found 1 or 2.
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@Mandy said:
This was a mechanic that was tried and tested some time ago - it didn't work then and it probably wouldn't work now, due to the fact that sometimes a killer needs to stay near a hook, if a gen is close to completion for example or if another survivor is in the area.
And no, a safety pip shouldn't be given - pips should be earned, not given away.
Camping/tunnelling are all mechanics in this game, it's a thing that does need to be got used to. Survivors have perks that can help counteract both of those mechanics as well, it's down to them if they want to use them. But the best way to punish a camping killer is just to do the generators and get out, you might still get the opportunity to make a save (if you have Borrowed Time) but focusing on the generators in those circumstances is the wisest decision to make.
Yes I appreciate it's not so fun because the fun thing in DbD is the chases imo, but players have a right to play their own way (providing it's in the game rules) and the killer is already getting punished by losing the match, not pipping (will probably get a black pip), and getting hardly any points.
How often does that happen though? Freezing hook progression for the killer staying too close to the hook for too long is probably the best answer to this problem to discourage it. This is also an idea that has come up with my friends who play this game and we feel it would be successful. The thing is, camping is considered toxic to a lot of survivors and it literally makes people not want to play the game. If no survivor/killer interaction is going on by a hooked survivor then the hooked survivor's bar should freeze until either interaction between other players happens nearby or the killer leaves. I can't think of a better solution to this problem though I have thought of a few before that I'd like to talk about at some time.
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@QwQw said:
Devour Hope is completely fine.
No, it isn't. It allows the killer to instant down and kill you. I can hardly have a decent match without playing totem finder builds because the hex perks for killers are insanely overpowered. I would like to play other perks than small game and other items than a map every single game without the worry of the killer using devour hope to get a sudden major power boost.
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Sorry but I cannot sympathize with the OP on this. You talk about losing a rare offering when you have a perk that literally deletes any item a survivor has if they get hit and unable to recover in a very short amount of time. Survivors wanting to avoid a mori is not a bad thing because they lose items and depip in most situations when they do this. Its not just you suffering a loss. They do too. Besides all that, moris deter a lot of people from playing survivor in this game. I can't think of anything more unfun and annoying in the game than the way moris were before the change. Even with the change, they're still not fun to play against because it often encourages tunneling to recently hooked survivors which is another big problem in the game.
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@OBX said:
Devour hope is one of the best balanced perks in the game.
If after 5 hooks (that the killer cannot camp) survivors still haven’t done the totem, that’s on them.
I completely disagree. Ultimate power perks ruin the game for survivors. In the case of devour hope, I may be doing everything I can to avoid the killer and do objectives but if I'm teamed up with incompetent players I am going to suffer because of that. That is not fair. I derank and lose rare items because my chances of surviving or getting enough done to pip were dramatically lowered because I was having to carry the weight of the team in many situations.