Kaitsja
Kaitsja
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201461#Comment_3201461
"The straw is that the combination of players doesn't matter so long as there is only one who is still up. One can be dead, another on hook and another slugged, and then you've just gotta get that last survivor downed and the trial is over."
How is that different to now in practice?
The survivor still has options. They can potentially wiggle free, they could potentially have DS or, if it's their first hook, deliverance. New Mori takes away those options.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201421#Comment_3201421
Slugging all four players previously was more or less a win for the Killer unless someone had UB. Was it that much of an issue before that something needed to be changed now? What straw does the new mori add that breaks the camel's back in this regard?
BHVR seems to think so. The straw is that the combination of players doesn't matter so long as there is only one who is still up. One can be dead, another on hook and another slugged, and then you've just gotta get that last survivor downed and the trial is over.
While I think that basekit UB isn't a good change, I also think that the new mori isn't a good change either but I don't see BHVR going back to the drawing board on that one so I've accepted that basekit UB is a byproduct of the new mori system.
Personally, I would've just been satisfied with being able to bleed out faster when there's only one other player left as the solution to being slugged for the 4k.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201347#Comment_3201347
The new system makes it so Survivors can stand back up after 45 seconds without any need for perks. Either the recovery speed will be slowed to account for this, or you will simply be stuck at 95% until 45 seconds have passed. The end result in practice is pretty similar.
I'm assuming it'll be the latter. There's not much that can really be done with UB as a perk outside of reworking it entirely, but basekit UB is absolutely necessary to prevent slugging en-masse.
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@neb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201315#Comment_3201315
? if you slug the entire time, you're not securing hook states. Gaining hook states is essential for late game. Getting kills via hooks is much more quicker than making someone bleed to death. It's 4 minutes total to make someone bleed to death, and that's only if they're constantly bleeding out without any interruptions. Slugging is only good in certain situations, such as finding a survivor near a survivor you just downed. Unless you're nurse, then I guess it doesn't matter what circumstances you're in.
Some killers don't care about hook states and just want to make sure the survivors have as miserable a time as possible.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201291#Comment_3201291
They choose UB and bring a medkit. :)
I don't disagree that there should be some give. I simply worry that this is too much give, especially for SWF.
"Instead of increasing recovery speed, it should let you pick yourself back up as soon as you're fully recovered, which is around 30ish seconds."
What? That's what basekit UB does now, except it's 45 seconds. What you're proposing is that UB still increase recovery speed, but less so than what will be in the PTB.
It takes survivors 30.4 seconds to reach 95% recovery. I'm not sure how the new system is going to work. There was no mention of the base recovery speed being slowed to account for this in the developer update.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200954#Comment_3200954
"The finisher mori ends the trial as soon as the last man standing is downed. That means no DS, no 4% when all hope at being rescued is lost, no chance at wiggling free."
You're basically describing the benefits to the yellow Mori, the aforementioned meme offering. The only upgrade with this basekit change compared to the previous yellow Mori is that it will also trigger if all remaining players are slugged and/or hooked. In practice, this will usually only come up when there are only two people left.
Also, it's 45 seconds without the new Unbreakable. 22.5 seconds with the new Unbreakable.
I would argue basekit Unbreakable is a net nerf to Killer, at least indirectly, since all Survivors get it at base kit, which means all Survivors get their choice of four perks plus Unbreakable.
Let's see, Off the Record because tunneling is still very much a thing. Dead Hard for a second chance in chase. Reassurance because camping is still very much a thing. That leaves one perk slot. Do they choose a perk for healing, or do they choose UB?
There has to be some give and take. If killers get A, and survivors don't get B, that's going to lead to killers slugging en-masse and justifying it as playing efficiently, the team being bad, or the survivors not running perk XYZ. Either everyone gets nothing, and I very much doubt BHVR will throw away their finisher mori system, or both sides get something.
Should the basekit UB be 45 seconds? Arguably, it's a little low and should be 60 seconds. Should UB be changed? Yes. Instead of increasing recovery speed, it should let you pick yourself back up as soon as you're fully recovered, which is around 30ish seconds.
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Really, instead of complaining about, they should be providing constructive criticism on why 45 seconds is too short. There has to be some give and take. Either the whole thing gets scrapped and everybody gets nothing, or both sides get something.
Without the basekit UB, killers would say things like "Just bring Unbreakable", "Don't get found", "Git gud", just like they've done with other problems like camping and tunneling. Before BT became basekit, it was bring BT. With camping, it's "Bring reassurance", "Rush gens", "Don't get found", while refusing to acknowledge that these strategies, while valid, are not fun.
I'm not saying all killers are like this, but it is a generalization, and if the shoe fits...
Above all else, the game should be fun as it is just a game.
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I think the time required to pick oneself back up should be 60 seconds. 45 Seconds is a little on the low side. What killers are getting versus what survivors are getting in exchange is far from being equivalent, but there has to be some give and take.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200774#Comment_3200774
Base kit buffed Unbreakable I would argue is a net nerf. Yellow mori base kit is not on equal level to base kit Unbreakable.
Also, how does a Killer end the trial at 5 gens compared to now?
The finisher mori ends the trial as soon as the last man standing is downed. That means no DS, no 4% when all hope at being rescued is lost, no chance at wiggling free.
It doesn't happen often enough for it to be a problem, but there have been killers who've gone on a slugging spree with knockout and just bled all 4 survivors out. To end the trial at 5 gens in the current version without hook states would require doing exactly that.
It's 45 seconds without perks. If it takes you more than 45 seconds to decide to hook someone, they've more than earned the right to pick themselves back up.
Again, though, this isn't a nerf to killers. I'd argue that 45 seconds is a little low, but as this feature is not going to be in the upcoming update and is merely a preview, there should be plenty of time to appropriately voice concerns and provide feedback that isn't just "Us vs Them".
While what killers got is easily inferior to what survivors are getting, that doesn't make it a nerf to killers. That just makes it unbalanced.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200675#Comment_3200675
I would argue that this is only marginally better than yellow Mori, which was a meme offering. Pretty close to a QoL boost at best, if you ask me.
It is, but it is also in no way just more nerfs to killers which is more what I was getting at with my response. On the one hand, it's 45 seconds without perks. On the other, without it there would be nothing to stop killers from ending the trial at 5 gens if they wanted to.
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@CosmicScarab said:
More base kit survivor perks and nerfs for killers, fun. Expect a lot more camping and tunneling in the future if these changes go through.
Did you miss the part where killers get basekit mori, regardless of hook states?
What's to stop a killer from slugging Survivor A, B and C, and then downing Survivor D which triggers the finisher Mori and ends the trial?
It's easy to see how, without anti-slugging measures in place, you could end up in a very unfun situation.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
Honestly, and this is from someone who plays a pretty even killer/surv split (well, a lot more surv recently with the incentives), I've always felt like a 60/40 or 55/45 in favor of the killers felt right to me.
My perspective/sensibility on this is mainly as a horror fan, but I feel as a survivor up against a powerful killer, you should feel like escape is the less likely outcome. Like, "I'm probably going to die here, but if things go right, I might escape". Not hopeless, mind you, just not even odds. I came into the game when I first started playing, it seemed only natural that most of the survs should die, and that making it out of trials was meant to be an accomplishment.
Just my own feeling, of course, but I feel it's reasoned.
I don't know that I would play survivor as much if I felt like the odds were in my favor, it just wouldn't be as fun for me.
But also it's an unbalanced, asymmetrical game. a 50/50 shouldn't really be the expected rate.
I see people up in arms about the whole 61/39 thing, and frankly I don't see the big deal. I'll take 40% escape rate in solo, thanks (assuming I do as I usually do and give myself up a lot).
I also think that when solo gets its buff, we'll see things settle in the 55/45 range, which is where I would say BHVR is looking to have it, if I were a betting man.
I think a 55/45 split would be ideal. 60/40 feels a bit much, and buffing solo queue would likely bring us to that ideal 55/45 split.
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@solidhex said:
So after feeling like killer was way too easy for some weeks, the game settled and my games are pretty much survivor sided like before the patch (i have 3500h and i play mostly against survs with over 1500h), and here is why:
- Prove Thyself is pretty much standard now, i see it in every game. Hyperfocus/ Stake Out combination is getting more and more common. Gens are getting even more focused now.
- good survs play with good survs, not saying it's a 4man swf every game but they have each other in friendlist very often because solo is hell right now. They only want to play with reliable, good survs.
- (good) survs learned how to use new dead hard and if they can get it to work consistently (win the mindgames on pallets and windows) it's even better than old DH
- good items (BNP, insta heal, styptic, ranger medkit) are even more common now.
- the only reliable tactic against good surv teams (tunneling someone out early) has been nerfed hard thanks to basekit BT, OTR and the likes. Which was good for solo players and low mmr players but it hurt the high mmr killers
- the ones who can loop and have game sense are now solely at high mmr, the survs that were boosted by perks (old DH etc...) are lost in mid/low MMR
i'm not saying the experience of mid/low MMR survs are untrue. I play solo a lot and i have a lot of frustrating games. But it was clear that good survs will find a way to keep the old balance alive. Killer right now feels not much different than before. Not saying it's absolute hell, i still have more fun than playing solo surv, but it's also not like "dude killer has been buffed if you don't 4k EVERY game you're trash"
Dead by Daylight is not balanced around the top players. It is balanced around players of low to average skill. With high mmr comes sweaty matches. The only way to improve the experience at high mmr without top-down balancing would be to solve the core issues this game has. One of which is map size.
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I think the kill rates would be acceptable if solo queue actually got some meaningful buffs. Sure, bad players and newbies are always going to bring the survival rate down, but improvements can be made to solo queue to better the experience of the average solo q players.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186735#Comment_3186735
I do care, but 500 BP is not good enough to bribe me. I am not some cheap harlot. I demand compensation for playing the game as a baby sitter would.
Will 5000 do, good sir?
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3183353#Comment_3183353
Yeaaah. Which is why they've never had a problem releasing or buffing perks good or great on her.
Nurse is literally the killer affected least by maps. Maps don't need to be tiny, just moderate size and buff weaker killers. Tiles are irrelevant to her even if you weaken loops.
It's not good to state subjective opinions with zero evidence like fact.
To cite the most recent piece of evidence, Wesker's perk Awakened Awareness had to be nerfed because of Nurse. The evidence that Nurse is holding the game back exists, but I'm not trying to change your mind.
Dead by Daylight has evolved from the deadly hide and seek game that it started out as, and concepts that worked well back then simply don't work well anymore. As the game evolves, older concepts need to evolve with it rather than hinder it.
Trapper needing to collect his traps at the start of the trial, Wraith being able to be burned out of his cloak, and Nurse being able to ignore every resource survivors have are all outdated concepts that fit the theme of what Dead by Daylight was, but no longer is.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3183189#Comment_3183189
Sure doesn't seem like it when they've buffed 18 perks which made them good/great/insane on her and released 40 perks that are good/great/insane on her all this time. But yeah sure, she holds back the game which is why BHVR has buffed Starstruck from its PTB version and have virtually never said she is an issue ever past her initial two batch of nerfs she deserved.
Nurse is a relic that represents what dbd used to be. Nurse simply doesn't fit with what the game has become. She holds the game back from what it could be. Perks have to be designed, buffed and nerfed based around what is possible with Nurse.
Maps are a huge problem for M1 killers. But smaller maps would indirectly buff Nurse. Weaker loops would, again, indirectly buff Nurse. Nurse's ability to ignore pallets, walls, windows, bodyblocks, and traverse freely via any path of her choosing was suitable for old dbd.
As the game gets older and older, it's crucial that older characters get revisited and reworked to fit the evolution of the game. In much the same way that Trapper having to traverse the map to collect his traps is outdated, so too is Nurse's power.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Spirit is no longer problem tho? She already nerfed, i don't know why people are believing she is problem.
Nurse? She needs some add-on nerfs and that's all have to be done.
Nurse needs a rework, because she's holding the game back.
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One idea I thought of is that when I had 4 survivors alive the generators would take longer to complete and get faster as the survivors died.
I'd like to focus on this part. This sounds great in theory, but the reason the gens become harder to complete the less survivors there are is because of task priority.
If there are four survivors, it means one can be in chase, one can be on hook, one can be getting the unhook, and that leaves one on a generator. Remove one, that means one in chase, one on hook, one on rescuing, none on gens.
Your other idea is good, though.
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Happened on Eyrie of Crows.
https://twitter.com/Kaitsja/status/1568965897959931905?t=Y1QKEkYq549mDqURQ_fwKQ&s=19 -
@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3179788#Comment_3179788
The ability to heal yourself is extremely strong no matter how much time it takes.
It's also one perk slot that works for everyone. it would be bad if it worked only on yourself, yes, but it's 4 perks at once.
That's exactly the reason CoH remained the God tier survivor perk even after its nerfs.
The ability to heal yourself is not extremely strong if it takes you the equivalent of a decade to heal. The goal of survivors is to repair the generators and escape. The more time survivors spend off gens, the easier it is for the killer to win.
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@Takeda_Nobutada said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3179577#Comment_3179577
They just made survivors a living tank i literally hit a survivor 5 times during a chase
Off the record-Free borrowed time-Dead hard
Does this game have any fun aspect in it?
Absolute cap. You are, at most, hitting a survivor in chase 3 times and that's only if they have endurance off the hook via either basekit BT or Off the Record, plus dead hard, and mettle of man.
You want endurance removed because you want to tunnel without consequence. Yes, the killer's job is to kill but the survivor's job is to survive. How do you propose they do that if you can just freely tunnel them out of the game?
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Keys are trash, and I'm okay with that.
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@Maxi605 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3175885#Comment_3175885
People barely played Pig, yet they destroyed the poor girl.
The idea is to avoid problems, not know that it could be one and just address it when people realize that is an abusable strat.
How exactly did they destroy Pig? Afaik the only recent changes Pig got was the removal of the strategy wherein you camp a single Jigsaw box, and the change to the key logic for removing an RBT.
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But @Akumakaji, what about the bloodpoint economy?!
In all seriousness, though, depipping is a relic of the old matchmaking system and needs to go.
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People barely play Plague as it is. No need to address something that clearly isn't prevalent enough to be a problem.
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Being good at stealth is great and all, but sometimes you need to take one for the team.
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@Veinslay said:
If I see a survivor with a toolbox, they're getting hard tunneled from the jump. Odds are they have on the complete bs BtL hyperfocus stakeout , so no anti tunnel perks. You wanna tunnel gens, I tunnel you
There is no such thing as tunneling gens. If you're that worried about genrush builds, bring Franklin's.
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That's definitely pretty bad. Here's a short clip of my recent match on Badham. I was astounded by how many pallets linked up to Shack.
https://twitter.com/Kaitsja/status/1567276793832566785?t=QH3Z8TxSvqW_czTn3AMS1A&s=19 -
I got facecamped in the basement on RPD by a zombie.
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@Tsela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165202#Comment_3165202
well we could do it like this:
Killers have basekit NOED when the hatch opens, or endgame collapse starts. It would give them the incentive to not slug that much, and also would make it risky for survivors to stick around when an exit gate is open. And they would need to measure their choices more
A basekit NOED that only activates when hatch is open would be relatively fair.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3167915#Comment_3167915
Why is a game of cat and mouse pointless?
Try this next time, pop a gen away from the slugged survivor and then cautiously make you way back to them, then hide near them till the killer goes out on patrol again and one click pick ‘em up due to a near full recovery bar.
Then both stealth out.
Or just give up and whine because that seems way more fun than a pointless game of cat and mouse. Err…
My favourite part of your argument is “being able to auto bleed out will discourage killers from slugging for the 4K while taking nothing away” ah other than the ability to counter that hatch thus costing them the 4K.
The only reason the slugged survivor has to bleed out is because their teammate refuses to try and pick them up.
How about a mechanic where the hiding healthy survivor auto dies in 2 mins if they don’t try and pick up the slugged survivor. That way a lost game is brought to a faster close and you can move on without costing the survivors anything.
wait a minute that sounds just a silly as another suggestion I’ve heard… 🤔
The counter to hatch is closing the hatch, or intercepting the survivor before they make it to hatch. Being able to bleed out faster takes absolutely nothing away from killers and provides a slugged survivor with agency that they otherwise would not have.
You, as the killer, are not losing any agency. The 2v1 is in complete control of the killer. But yes, popping a gen from 0% to 100% only to still have another gen left is definitely going to allow escape. It seems you missed the part where if there is more than one gen remaining and only 2 survivors, escape is nearly impossible.
You're assuming slugging for the 4k only happens when there is one gen left that's nearly complete. If that were the case, nothing would need to be done about it.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3167829#Comment_3167829
On the first point how do you do that when you dont know what locker they are in? There are multiple lockers and they could be in one as far from both doors as possible leaving the killer stuck just walking back and forth between doors for 2 minutes.
Now to the second, you have now admitted that it is not about a QOL you moving on to the next match and are now using it as a strategy to help your teammate.
I will start with your final paragraph if the killer slugs for the 4k and you bleed out in the normal amount of time you're right the killer should not be compensated. In that situation it is the killers fault for not coming back and hooking you in time.
However if you change the parameter of the bleedout the killer cannot be blamed for not hooking you,and shouldnt be punished for not having the time to make it back. In this situation just dc and eat the penalty if you dont wanna wait. There is also however the possibility of them getting the other person and you getting hatch, or them making it back in time to hook you, the game isnt over till its over.
You're right that bleeding out faster is no different than giving up on hook which is why if you choose to do that the killer should be given the benefit of having hooked you if you get the benefit of giving up like you were hooked.
Slugging for the 4k to deny hatch is a completely reasonable thing for the killer to do, while it is an inconvenience, it gives the killer more time to complete their objective without having to deal with the 50/50 of the hatch, and having the opportunity to potentially catch the 4th survivor making an altruism play (it does happen), or some other mistake.
Basically it postpones the endgame giving the killer an advantage.
Now you asked about why i brought up exit gate regression. 99ing the exit gates is exactly the same as slugging for the 4k.
In both cases you are delaying the endgame in a way that you have the advantage.
In both cases you are using a strategy to optimize the result for your side.
If the exit gates regressed it would make going for those late game plays more difficult and fair, instead of unhooking and mass bodyblocking for essentially a free escape.
Now in response to this you may point out "well to get around that the killer can open the door and start the endgame" and that is a stupid arguement.
The only time you do that is if you are just giving up and dont care and even though you want the survivors to just leave they will sit at the gates and make you wait out the collapse or give them extra points.
Hiding in one place for too long gives them idle crows which prompts a loud noise notification. Moving from locker to locker is a waste of time when that time could be better spent trying to get the gate.
If one survivor is wasting their time hiding instead of trying to escape, it is as much a waste of their time as it is the killer's and they have no intention of leaving. Either they're trying to escape or they're hiding because they're just wasting time.
That's not even mentioning the amount of aura reading perks at the killer's disposal to help them find hiding survivors. If stealth were as viable an option as you seem to think it is, there wouldn't be a plethora of anti-stealth perks.
It is about QOL, and has nothing to do with helping the remaining survivor to get hatch. I am, however, against rewarding killers for engaging in what is widely considered to be unfun gameplay.
I actually don't like the existence of hatch and would prefer if it didn't exist. It encourages killers to slug for the 4k at the expense of the survivors fun. Yet its existence is a necessity to prevent the game being held hostage.
The killer should not be compensated if a survivor chooses to bleed out faster. You aren't compensated when a survivor bleeds out for 4 minutes because you failed to find the remaining survivor. Don't pretend like killers chasing that 4k care about making it back in time to hook their slug. If that were the case, people wouldn't be bled out - more often than not - while the killer searches for the remaining survivor.
The difference between 99ing the exit gates and slugging for the 4k is that the killer still has a chance to turn things around. The killer still gets to do everything they'd normally do. A slugged survivor has no such agency and effectively is unable to participate in meaningful gameplay.
Opening the exit gate as killer is done for more reasons than just giving up. A well-timed Blood Warden play can doom the survivors. The gate being open puts pressure on the survivors and opens them up to the risk of Blood Warden.
If survivors mass bodyblock to get someone out, then it was not, by any means, a free escape. It took each of them taking a risk in order to make it happen.
Survivors don't get free points, nor should killers. You want your hook states and emblem scores? Don't slug for the 4k. The sacrifice animation has to complete before hatch will spawn. Killer moves faster than survivors. The odds of the killer finding hatch are higher than the survivor finding hatch.
The only reason killers slug for the 4k is so they can have their guaranteed 4k because they don't want to risk getting a 3k. It's almost as though there's this mentality that anything less than a 4k is a loss, when the win paramaters are that the killer has won at 4k/3k, draw at 2k, loss at 1k/0k.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165202#Comment_3165202
Why can't they do the gens or the why can't the other survivor pick them up and continue the game? You can even finish a gen and pick them up if its close enough.
Run adrenalin or unbreakable which can save you in a pinch when this happens.
I've done it, seen others do it. Its only a stupid play if not done well, most killers will patrol looking for the last survivor. With a lil patience and common sense it is possible to pick up the other survivor.
If you choose to hide when a killer slugs for the 4k its hardly on the killer.
Its ok to hide in that scenario if you want, but if you do... the slugged survivor bleeding out is just as much on you as the killer.
4 mins isn't a bad timer, its long enough that you aren't likely to bleed out during the game if slugged multiple times, gives plenty of time for you to be picked up. If the timer was shorter I'd slug like a beast as you'd get everyone down and dead quicker than hooking them.
"Why can't they do the gens" One survivor cannot be expected to complete 2 or more gens in a 2v1 scenario. Even if the slugged survivor gets picked up or picks themselves up with UB, the game devolves into a very pointless cat & mouse until the killer has secured their 4k.
Slugged survivor gets picked up, killer comes back to the location where they were slugged, finds their scratch marks, slugs them again, and resumes their search for the last survivor. An injured survivor is much easier to find than a healthy survivor.
Adrenaline only activates when either all the gens are done or EGC is triggered via the hatch being closed. Unbreakable? Pointless. At best, you buy yourself time to earn some extra points. At worst, the killer finds you and slugs you again.
Being able voluntarily bleed out faster to move on to your next match sooner will discourage slugging for the 4k while taking absolutely nothing away from the killer. If the game has reached the point where only 2 survivors remain and the number of gens is equal to or more than 2, the killer has basically won.
The problem with being slugged for the 4k is that it's up to 4 minutes of doing absolutely nothing. When the game is already lost, the slugged survivor just wants to move on to their next match sooner.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165918#Comment_3165918
OK let's go over this point, It's a 1 on 1 hatch is closed, killer needs to patrol doors, survivor hides in locker for entire endgame, never making a move for the doors out of spite.
How exactly do you force them out?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165914#Comment_3165914
Ok I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you want the faster bleedout as an actual QOL change.
So along with bleeding yourself out to move on to the next match, no longer caring about the current match, and we dont wanna give any advantages, hatch shouldnt spawn until your bleedout timer would have expired naturally.
And also since you are depriving the killer of the opportunity to make it back to hook you, using the faster bleedout would have to count as being hooked in terms of emblem score/perks and stuff, and assuming your not on death hook it would grant all individual hooks, so you cant use it to screw over a killer going for say an adept achievment.
On the first point, you can just as easily get the survivor out of the locker and kill them. I thought you meant gates are open and the survivor's just hiding in the locker to kill time.
On the second point, bleeding out faster is no different from someone on second stage deliberately missing their skill checks to let the last survivor get hatch sooner.
More often than not, the slug bleeds out before the killer finds the last survivor, and you aren't rewarded for that with hook states, emblem scores and perk effects. Nor should you be rewarded for slugging for the 4k if a survivor chooses to bleed out faster. Hook them instead. If the last finds hatch before you do, then so be it.
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@TheLastHook said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166292#Comment_3166292
The objective is to repair 5 generators, not 7.
Objective is to Kill 4 Survivors, not to hook 12 times.
Survivors have 3 hook states each. Unless you're high mmr, which you definitely are not, you can afford to spread hooks out.
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@TheLastHook said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162936#Comment_3162936
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162934#Comment_3162934
Before I reply to you, have you ever played The Trapper without "strong" addons? Do you know how it is to walk through the map to pick up a trap from the ground? Do you know how long that takes? Do you know how easy is to deactivate the trap and how much generators can be done?
20 seconds folks, we are talking about 20s. And then you cry about the 0.00001% buffs that Killers get. Imagine knocking a generator 20s every time you kick it.
Have you tried chasing someone that wasn't unhooked
Yes? They still can body block, then open the gate, pee in the corner and then escape?
Also, what if I did not chase neither the unhooker or the guy on the hook but he came to me? even if accidentally, I hit the guy I have the right to make it count, I wasn´t even chasing them but they have so much endurance that in lingers enough to find the Killer in the other side of the map.
No the basekit 10 seconds of BT was 100% necessary. Tunneling is a serious problem in this game
Tunnelling is a made up word. It´s called playing the Killer. Don´t unhook if it´s not safe or the Survivor cannot escape, don´t hide in a rock doing like if the Killed didn´t see you?
What do you want the Killer to do? Killer notices hiding 1m away, waits for you to unhook and because one is not stupid... you go for the injured and easy to take down Survivor. It´s not personal. It´s the efficient stratgegy.
Do you guys go to another Gen after you have completed 25% so to ensure that the seven generators and not just five are repaired?
The objective is to repair 5 generators, not 7. Swapping from a 25% gen to a fresh gen just to jump off it at 25% would mean the objective never gets done. At best, one gen ends up repaired before all four survivors are dead.
The killer equivalent would be to injure all survivors before rotating back to the first survivor to down and hook them. Tunneling being a made-up word doesn't magically make it non-existent.
BT has absolutely nothing to do with Trapper needing buffs. If somebody chooses to bodyblock or hide in plain sight with their BT, that mistake should be punished. Not tunneling doesn't mean playing nice. It just means you don't tunnel.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Nemesis is a very time inefficient Killer with little-to-no 1v4 pressure
@Tsulan said:
The whole "having to hit survivors 3 times to down them" thingy is really counterproductive in regard of tunneling/camping.
Thats why.
Both of these beg the question, why main Nemesis if his power is so bad that the only way to make use of it is to tunnel/camp? It also makes me wonder why BHVR thinks making killers whose powers fall at either extreme on the spectrum is a good idea.
Like, genuinely, who thought Nemesis' power was a good idea? Infection serves no purpose on Nemesis, and it's sad.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3158132#Comment_3158132
When everyone's always questioning your MMR and skill level, yes gaining MMR is important. If I faced nothing but baby survivors, my opinions would cease to be valid, because I wouldn't be experiencing the level that I'm talking about.
So all I have to do to get an extra kill is SIMPLY camp or tunnel? Why didn't I think of that before?
I know the spawn logic of hatch quite well. It just seems like it's always spawning near the survivors for me, and allows them to jump through anyway when they screwed up and waited too long before I got close enough to close it.
Gaining MMR is about as important as getting pips to increase your grade. You don't know your MMR. You don't actually know if you are high MMR. You can only make a guess, because the number isn't shown to you.
Hatch's spawn location is entirely random and is decided at the beginning of the match. The only way to guarantee a specific location for the hatch is to bring an offering to spawn it at Main Building or Shack, and if you already know where it's going to spawn, it's just a matter of who gets there first.
It doesn't matter if you don't 4K, just as it's not ultimately a big deal if survivors don't 4E. The remaining survivor doesn't win by getting hatch, as that would imply the killer lost. The hatch exists as a way out to prevent the game being held hostage. One survivor cannot possibly be expected to do multiple generators and get the gate open when they are the only one left alive. The killer could just force them to farm.
Even in a 2v1, the game is basically over at that point and the killer can force the survivors to farm.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164592#Comment_3164592
And survivors can hide in a locker and force the killer to wait the whole endgame collapse too, wasting the killers time.
And killers have the option of forcing said survivors to leave. Unlike being slugged for the 4k, you still have a way to move on to your next game faster.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165202#Comment_3165202
You can have faster bleed outs as soon as exit gate regression is a thing
Exit Gate regression and faster bleed outs aren't even related, so why should one require the other to be a thing? It's just silly. One is a direct buff to killers and the other is a QOL improvement that means one person isn't wasting their time for 4 minutes.
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Why even listen to cheap provocation? If you got 8 Hooks and the survivors got a 4E, just accept the loss and move on to your next game. When I play either role, I always try to reflect on how I could've played better and what I could've done to prevent losing or just scraping in the win.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165172#Comment_3165172
...Nurse and Blight are exceptional killers with very little counterplay. People still queue in as survivor even though there is a chance that either of these killers will appear in the match. Survivors could still perform their objectives while hiding; it would just require a cunning playstyle. Either way, I think it would satisfy killer mains who are quite disgruntled by the abilities of survivors.
Very little counterplay is still counterplay. Survivors cannot perform their objectives while hiding. Not to mention that hiding isn't even a viable option. There are so many perks related to finding survivors. Lethal Pursuer shows you their auras at the beginning of the match, discordance tells you when more than multiple survivors are working on the same generator, Darkness Revealed tells you if survivors are near a locker, Call of Brine tells you when survivors hit a skill check on a generator, Surveillance tells you when a regressing gen has been interrupted.
Disgruntled killer mains who are upset that survivors can loop need to play better. It is 100% a skill issue at that point. Ain't nobody gonna play hide and seek for a whole damn hour just to make 5000 BP at best.
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@SuzuKR said:
I don’t know why it’s a bad thing for a killer to try and get a 4K. Have you considered just not unhooking a teammate? Do you really need the 4 escape that bad? Why not just settle for 3?
Why wouldn’t it be disadvantageous for survivors? That’s literally the point. The killer already got 2 kills and downed a third. It is meant to be in their favor. Same way it is when gates are open and a killer has nobody on death hook.
Slugging for the 4k is not equivalent to survivors attempting a 4E. In a 4E attempt, it's extremely risky and likely to result in a trade. Slugging for the 4k has no risks. The survivors can't do the remaining gens at this point, and you're only doing it to prevent the possibility of the remaining survivor getting hatch.
The person on the ground has to bleed out for 4 minutes because it would be stupid for their teammate to pick them back up knowing that they'd just be taking the bait. There's a simple solution, though. Let survivors choose to bleed out faster. But I'm sure if that was an option, killer mains would cry about how it's unfair that survivors have hatch while killers have nothing equivalent.
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@Carth said:
Nooo you have to let the person have one last freebie escape chance! Where is the killer equivalent of hatch?
Not slugging for the 4k and giving hatch are two very different things. You are still very likely to find the hatch before the remaining survivor does even if you don't slug for the 4k.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165071#Comment_3165071
I think allowing Legion to see blood and scratch marks could be a buff you’d enjoy. And maybe the counterplay could be hiding? Or, since Legion has killer instinct in their kit, just hoping they go for any survivor who isn’t you. Running is disadvantageous but hey, you could simply try to hide. Like I see killer mains say, quite often, just don’t get caught. That seems like a fair trade off, no? Legion is no longer weak, survivors have a bit of counterplay that killers approve of It’s a horror game; maybe it should be more like hide & seek anyway.
The problem with your statement is that the game is not actually horror, rather it's horror-themed. Tremendous difference. If Legion had zero counterplay, there'd be no point in playing any other killer and there'd be no point in survivors playing in the first place.
Hiding is not a viable option against Legion thanks to Killer Instinct. Killer Instinct is basically anti-stealth. You can't hide from it, and the idea of no-one getting caught in the first place would mean survivors couldn't do their objective.
The devs tried the solution of just buffing legion, and it still didn't make them fun to play against nor fun to play as. Survivors don't like mending simulator, and mending simulator is boring for legion players.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162892#Comment_3162892
I won't :(
I'm still gonna run into dead ends
This was my experience playing on West Wing. Dead end after dead end.
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@WeakestNurseMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162617#Comment_3162617
I haven't gotten the west wing variant yet so I don't know what it's like exactly, but the east wing variant absolutely blows.
I vastly prefer East Wing over West Wing. West Wing has too many places blocked off for my liking.
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In the roughly 3 hours I played last night, I had pretty much Wesker the entire time interrupted only by a Huntress.
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@emetSdidnothingwrong said:
It's not intentionally griefing nor holding the game hostage so I do not believe it's bannable, back in the day survivors could do this exact same thing and the killer would be 100% unable to hit the one performing the bug until the guy was sacrificed and this was never bannable. It will be patched just chill until then.
And yet they killswitched Clown for having a bug that allowed him to see survivors auras at all times, and go zoom-zoom permanently. I see zero reason Sadako should not be held to the same standard.