Jallybwan
Jallybwan
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@Withered8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1691309#Comment_1691309
The whole skill factor of pigs ambush however comes from teh mindgame of whether or not the survivor is going to run away. If a survivor doesn't break away and the pig notices and ambushes, the survivor can't really do anything because a pig can easily outrun a survivor around a loop.
I disagree wholeheartedly; when the survivor stays at a loop, it's still a 50/50 mindgame on most tiles. There are a few short ones where the odds are tilted in the Pig's favour, true, but it's still totally possible to avoid a dash.
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@Withered8 said:
Giving her the ability to crouch instantly combined with dash charge addons would be broken as all hell, as it woul dbe used to basically catch a survivor running to a pallet or window.
If survivors r leaving a loop as ur crouching, then start walking after then as soon as you start crouching and just uncrouch and hit them.
Although i do agree her ambush could be improved in some way this is not the way to do it i feel.
Dunno if it'd be OP, especially since Demogorgon can quite literally do just that. But I would want charge addons to be removed anyway.
As for the second part, yes, you can "just uncrouch and hit them." That's not what I want to address. It's much more satisfying and skilful to actually land a dash, rather than a basic M1--wouldn't you agree?
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1747551#Comment_1747551
Actually I suspect only a small percentage of her kills are directly from a trap killing someone, let alone kills that happen in games with specific combos using rare add-ons versus the rest of games involving Pigs that don’t have those add-ons equipped. In fact the traps main benefits for Pig aren’t killing survivors themselves, it’s that they force survivors off gens toward the boxes which both gives Pig more time to get downs and makes the survivors who are going to the boxes more vulnerable if the Pig chooses to focus on downing them again.
That being said there’s no avaialble data one way or another as far as I know on exactly how many of Pigs kills are from Game Over trap events. Without that number it’s all speculation.
You'd be surprised how often bear traps get triggered with Timer. I remember Otz getting 5 game overs in 5 games or something, but I can't find the vid. Dunno if it's on his YT or his Twitch.
And yes, I am 100% aware traps are for stall. That's why Timer should be reworked -- the threat of dying should be something to force survivors to deal with the trap. It shouldn't actually be a threat unless they just ignore it.
Theory and practice matter more than statistics in a game like DBD, especially since at least one dev has come out and said the stats are unreliable. Pig's ambush just needs a little tweak to become a more viable chase power.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1715038#Comment_1715038
Stats don’t “mean very little”, they just might not mean what you think they mean. Nurse is obviously last in the list because she is extremely unforgiving of errors and very difficult to play. She has extremely high potential is you can hit her blinks consistently but most players simply can’t.
Pig having a very high kill rate is a different story. The usual consensus is she’s not that great, so having a really high kill rate just raises the question of why? It’s not similar to Nurse at all.
Basically while these two charts aren’t the entire story they’re also not literally meaningless. It’s a mistake to completely discount broad statistical measurements that indicate something isn’t happening randomly.
Pig's high kill rate most likely comes from the Tampered Timer/Box of Gears or Jigsaw's Annotated Plan combo, or just plain bad luck on the survivors' part when searching boxes. There's also the fact that on some maps (usually larger ones), boxes spawn ludicrously far apart. Pig's high kill rate is undeniably influenced by her luck-based RBTs, not that her power is good on a skill-based level. I would advocate for reducing the randomness of her boxes, while making her ambush more consistently available.
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702468#Comment_1702468
Sorry man, can we just agree to disagree? I really can't be bothered typing out a 3-page reply, that's why I'm not acknowledging every one of your points.
Regarding your question as to whether I have a problem with demo - my problem with him is that he makes my game run like a sideshow, so I can't really play him unless I've just restarted my console, thus I rarely do.
If you'd like, sure, but Pig still needs a tweak to her ambush.
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@shane32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/196252/giving-pig-ghostfaces-crouch
Im a pig main and I rarely use her crouch and I never use her dash and I wreck teams with her.
Okay, good for you. Her dash could still be a bit more accessible to people who want to use it.
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@dugman said:
What I’d be interested in is a little more detail on Pig being almost as high as Freddy in the kill rates that the devs showed last week. She has the second highest kill rate among all games and fourth highest among games with red rank killers. I kind of hope Ethan does a followup third graph that shows games where all five players are red rank and see where Pig lands on that chart. My guess at the moment is that it might be that Pig’s stealth and reverse traps work best on average players but are relatively weaker against top players. (Stealth works best against players with less situational awareness, for instance, and the traps work best against players who aren’t already efficient at finding the boxes and knowing when they can work on a gen versus getting the trap off.)
In the overall I doubt based on Ethan’s charts that they’re looking to buff Pig any time soon, unless maybe they think her pick rate is too low. It’s hard to justify a buff of a killer whose kill rates are among the highest in the game.
Nurse is last in the list by a long shot, last I checked. I think that should be enough of a tip-off that stats mean very little.
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1691416#Comment_1691416
Where we're at a disagreement is that you think pig has a problem and I don't. Simple as. We can go around in circles all we want but my point will stand - you can use pig's power as long as you take the time to learn how to use it. Crouch or Dash-spamming won't make pig any more fun to play, she'll just not require you to have a brain anymore.
And just to address your comment about clown - he is one of the strongest chasers in the game, who can quickly shut down any loop. He lacks on other areas, but as you said, that's not the point. Pig is comparable in terms of chase potential.
...Or you could acknowledge that I have made several good points. You can agree to disagree, sure, but I'd really appreciate at least some effort to have a good-faith conversation. You seem to have completely ignored me.
"You can use pig's power as long as you take the time to learn how to use it." May I introduce you to a friend of mine? He was one of the first Pig mains, and in his prime, arguably one of the best. Near if not at Scorpionz's level. My friend and I both agree something needs to be done about Pig's dash, and even Scorpionz has agreed in the past that it would be nice if survivors were incentivized to stay at the loop. You seem to think I consider Pig to be a ######### tier killer... that's not the case at all.
"Crouch or Dash-spamming won't make pig any more fun to play, she'll just not require you to have a brain anymore." Snuck premise. You've made this argument on the assumption that giving Pig a faster crouch will mean she can just spam her dash and get an unavoidable hit. In practice, this would not be the case, because the dash has not been changed. You would still need to take control of the pallet, fake going one direction and go the other, etc. You could even throw in a moondash or two if you felt like being fancy.
May I ask if you have a problem with Demogorgon?
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1691309#Comment_1691309
On your first paragraph - my point was that she has ways in her kit to already deal with open pallet loops and other common situations,so she doesn't need a buff for those. Furthermore, with practice she can also deal with chases where most other killers struggle. She's just as good in a chase as clown, but she also has her traps, which remove any need to run slowdown perks.
It seems that you're suggesting minor tweaks that won't really make her stronger, but I imagine they'll just either reduce her skill cap.. Or otherwise be so minor that they won't really make an impact
Okay, I have a couple things to say here:
- Yes, she can theoretically deal with open pallet loops. This is not the problem I seek to address. Her dash needs to be usable more often, so "just fake the dash" doesn't really apply here.
- She can deal with chases where other killers struggle, yes. If the survivor chooses to stay at the tile. This is the problem I want to deal with.
- Yes, she has traps. This is... completely irrelevant to what I want to tweak.
- Comparing Pig to Clown really doesn't help your case here...
- I'm suggesting small changes, but by no means minor ones. This is easily Pig's greatest problem right now, at least from an enjoyment perspective. She needs to be able to use her dash more often than she can now. She doesn't need a more powerful dash, just a more available one.
So you're right in most or all of what you've said, but these points are not the problems I'm bringing up.
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1691236#Comment_1691236
Well, with pallet loops that you can see over you can still force a survivor away by just using your crouch and baiting a dash. Not really a skillful play, but it does work on good survivors.
One example of where the dash is really good are loops without Los (e.g. Jungle gyms) it's always pretty satisfying when you pull off a moon dash (sliding backwards on the wall whilst dashing) that nets you a hit. Increasing the crouch speed will just make it pointless to learn how to make plays like this, because they won't be necessary anymore
"Not really a skillful play..." We want Pigs to make skilful plays, don't we? Baiting the dash and uncrouching isn't nearly as skilful as actually landing the dash, so we want to encourage Pigs to commit to more dashes.
I don't think increasing the crouch speed would lead to "just dash forward" being the best play. The dash itself would still take a second to charge up - we'd need to give Medical File and Tape new functionalities - so the survivor still has plenty of time to make it to a pallet or window if they're at a tile. And if they're not at a tile, you would likely get the M1 anyway. Still plenty of room for skilled plays, less incentive to just W+M1.
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1684166#Comment_1684166
I understand what you're saying, but in my opinion it will lower her skill cap, not increase it. There are not that many killers left that require some thought and practice to use their power. I'd hate to see pig turn into another freddy
Understandable, I don't want to see Pig turn into Freddy either. That's why I haven't suggested directly buffing her dash's length or duration; my problem isn't with how strong the dash is, it's how little a good survivor will let you use it. As of now, if you get a survivor who runs from the loop, there is little reason to use her dash at all - this, to me, means there is little incentive to learn the most skilful part of her power.
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@Slashstreetboy said:
I wouldn´t be opposed to the idea, the pig mains out there have been through a lot. On the other hand it seems unfair that Pig should get the same crouch as GF while having a chase tool built into it, something that GF lacks (both can mindgame using undetactable).
So to make it more fair it should either just be a tad faster and not be on GF´s level or considerably increase the windup for the dash in my opinion.
I mean, sure! The goal of this rework is to lower the amount of time a survivor has to react to her crouching; preferably enough where they're forced to 50/50 the Pig in most situations. If her ambush was any stronger than it currently was, this would be unfair - however, in my opinion at least, her power has a good amount of counterplay at tiles. The problem is that it's just infinitely easier to abandon the loop and make her waste time.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662842#Comment_1662842
I rarely see Pig, and you know who else J never see? Trapper, Clown, Freddy, Demo, Plague, Oni, Deathslinger, never seen a Blight..........
So please. Tell me that ALL of these are on the same level as Pig.
I'd argue current Freddy, Demo, Plague, Oni, Deathslinger and Blight are better than Pig, personally.
- Freddy has insane map control and a bullshit chase power
- Demo has similar map control to Freddy, and a much more balanced chase power that's easily-executable
- Plague is either a perma-T3 Myers or a 115 Huntress, depending on how survivors play
- Oni is Oni
- Blight has the perfect balance of map control and chase
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@PigMainClaudette said:
Ambush is fine. It's great even. And landing a perfectly tipped Ambush is the most satisfying thing in the game for me.
What she needs if anything from GF's crouch is the walking speed, nothing else.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662817#Comment_1662817
Pig is WAY better than old Freddy or Bubba! Just because you can't mindlessly chase like half the other killers and have to somewhat plan doesn't mean she's terrible.
Ambush is really satisfying, yeah. It's considerably less satisfying when the survivor sees you crouching, and runs to another tile. Even if you predict that and uncrouch, it's just not as fun as landing that perfectly-tipped ambush, is it?
This tweak is pretty much designed to enable Pig to use her dash more often, rather than making it more powerful, if that makes sense. It's a fun power, just rarely usable if survivors decide to run.
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
We're really comparing Ghostface to Pig? GF doesn't automatically gain Undetectable and can't game you into thinking they left the area.
Also the Pig dash is 170% run speed. You can literally catch up to and hit someone mid chase using it.
That's interesting. Could you provide me with video evidence or something of you getting this hit (i.e. crouching mid-chase and ambushing to catch up to them, not at a tile), when a normal W+M1 wouldn't? I'm genuinely curious to see if me and most other Pig mains have been missing something.
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@Accullla said:
I get annoyed every time I see someone calling pig bad.. The fact that you can't play her doesn't mean she's not a great killer. She IS one of those killers that take practice to master and play well, but if you invest a bit of time, you can go on par with any survivor team - slow crouch or not. Pig doesn't need a buff.
Late as #########, but here we go
I'm not saying Pig is bad, I'm saying her ambush could use a little tweaking, so she can use it more often. This raises Pig's skill cap and rewards players for using her dash more often, which in my opinion, is her most fun power.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
this is the buff she needs, maybe not at the same speed as GF but way faster than it currently is would be a change everyone would welcome. I personally also think they should change the ambush roar to start after she starts her dash. it would give survivors less time to react and she would potentially be able to hit sprint burst users more.
I mean, any buff to Pig would probably be appreciated. I think same speed as GF would be fair, personally, since as a survivor you still have the option to maneuver around most tiles and avoid the dash. It's a pretty equal 50/50.
As for that second part, that would mean we can't oink anymore :(
Have you tried uncrouching and going for a grab at gens instead of ambushing? Most of the time you get the hit anyway, and you have a chance of getting a free hook if they're not paying attention.
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Oop, thanks Rizzo for putting it in the right category. My bad.
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@Demonl3y said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1538341#Comment_1538341
He/She didnt meant the Terror Radios. Also special things like the Chainsaw still have to nake noises, only things like Footsteps/breathing and maybe loud Raaaaawhhhs or something from Demogorgon.
Yeah, I'm mainly talking about the clump clump clump SCREEEEEEEEEEEEE from Demodoggo.
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@RakimSockem said:
So you want a Tier 1 Myers running at 115% speed with a Chainsaw. Because that's what Billy and Bubba would 100% use every match if this were to happen
I know you're trolling but lol, absolutely not
Thank you for your constructive criticism. I will now proceed to cure cancer with this helpful, innovative guidance you have provided me with.
Also, Billy can already get an even better combination with Apex Muffler and Iridescent Brick.
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@GamingHulk123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/182353/insidious-rework-idea
is it always activated or does need to be activated by something
Preferably always active. Otherwise I wouldn't really see the point in running it over Dark Devotion or Tinkerer.
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@GamingHulk123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1538226#Comment_1538226
Cleaning and studying Spanish seems to help but I’ll lose interest very quickly. I have a therory that this disorder is somehow tied to your motivation. Heck, sometimes I think it has a mind of its own.
Try setting up a reward system for yourself. If you can meditate for 10 minutes, you get a chocolate bar, for example.
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@Masochistic_Killer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1537632#Comment_1537632
GeT SeNt To tHe BaSeMeNt, glitchy impassable terrain, using your only form of mobility CC's you and forces you to stare at the ground with an even worse FoV, blinked twice? That's worse. Blink twice and MISS a swing? May as well take a nap.
I'm a newb, her ability has the potential to be fun, its current implementation is anything but. The lore is, she was actually amazingly strong AND fun to play at some point. Now she's not fun to play as OR fun to play against. Sad. I'm approaching 500 hours since June when I started, I've seen surprisingly good Nurse's like maybe twice, and I'm definitely not one of them.
Oh, she was truly beautiful. A paragon of power! An expert of efficiency! But alas, her top-tier wings carried her too close to the sun... and she got absolutely ######### dunked on by nerfs and dedicated servers.
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@Unicorn said:
Side Note: This is why toxicity is so unwanted. People need to understand there are people who play this game who suffer certain anxieties, depressions, mental obstacles & simple acts of kindness can go a long way.
amen to that
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- Breathing exercises help, my bro. There's a really sweet Chinese one I do that doubles as a stretching exercise called Baduanjin, and you can watch a video of someone doing it here. If you're interested, you can also read about it on Wikipedia or this site.
- People don't generally trust self-diagnosis even if you turn out to be right, so if you have any source of income, I would recommend saving up to go see a therapist and get their opinion. If you don't have any sources of income, you could consider looking for a part-time job or doing chores for neighbours.
- (It might help you to say "I think I might have borderline personality disorder", rather than "I have borderline personality disorder". This will help others to take you more seriously, because you're stating what you believe to be true, instead of just asserting something that might or might not be true.
- If you feel yourself getting angry at DBD, I recommend gently putting the controller down and closing your eyes. Keeping control of yourself IRL is much more important than keeping control of how well you're doing in-game, so even if that means survivors get more time to do gens, learning to control your rage will help you do better in the long run.
- (You never know, a lot of survivors like to run up and taunt a Killer who's just standing still. Maybe you can get a few cheeky hits that way ;>)
- More than anything else, remember that no matter what kind of disorder you do or don't have, something you always have control over is your attitude to getting better. The cool thing about suffering is that it only wins when you let it win - as soon as you get back up and decide to keep going, you're the one who wins.
Bless you my friend; I'm on Discord @Jallybwan#5019 if you'd like to talk further.
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@BigBubs said:
I play pig often and I think the way her dash is right now is fine. If you find it hard to do it then maybe you need to play more and get better.
lol
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@Branrich said:
I think the devs ought to seriously consider this post by allowing a base fov of at least 100 (slider or not). I would argue that killer players with motion sickness are actually currently locked into 2 perks: shadowborn and corrupt intervention. In Otz’s video on best killer builds more than 80% had CI. The depip squad addressed this speed imbalance as well by destroying high ranking killers running ruin without any perks or their own. And what ended up getting nerfed? Ruin! Part of what makes the game fun is trying to figure out what perks the killer has and adjusting play accordingly. When 2 slots are taken by fov and gen slow it dramatically reduces the diversity and unpredictability of the game. Also I flat out disagree that fov hurts stealth. If anything hopefully the fov helps to nerf the toxic and unfair 360. 1st vs 3rd person is the real advantage not a tiny bit of fov.
I agree with most of this except that 360-ing is toxic or unfair. It's... not. You can still hit them; Shadowborn just makes it easier.
360-ing was toxic when autoaim was worse than it is today, and you could literally force the killer to miss. Now, if the killer misses, it's usually on them (unless "a i m d r e s s i n g" screws them over)
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@PigMainClaudette said:
Are you running any of the Dash add-ons? I'm asking because if that's your preferred playstyle, then they're something to look at. Video Tape and Combat Straps are probably the most optimal way to get consistent and fast dashes off.
That being said, having Dash move a little faster would be nice. I'd rather an increase in crouch walking speed though, personally.
I do run Straps and Tape. They're just about the only addons I run, actually, since most of Pig's addons are meh lol
Yeah. Increased crouching speed, and maybe the ability to move (at a slowed rate) while charging the dash?
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
Imo pigs dash is already great, but your suggestions are still cool and i wouldnt mind them if they were added since i enjoy playing pig
Yeah, I actually love her dash! My problem is that I don't get to use it as much as I'd love to, because survivors keep running away when I crouch.
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The problem with new Ruin is that it only helps killers with serious map presence - i.e, those who don't need it. Old Ruin was used as a way to bridge the gap between weak killers and strong killers, and while it didn't do that very well, it was better than nothing. New Ruin is a stall perk that only affects survivors if they aren't doing the objective, and the only killers that can stop survivors doing the objective are already top tier. Perhaps the only exception to this is Wraith, but as a Wraith main, there are plenty of other perks I would rather use than this.
Ruinveillance is perhaps this perk's one saving grace. Other than that, it's either useless or a win-more perk.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1090552#Comment_1090552
The thing you're not understanding is that you miss either way. It's just the dressing makes it look like you could have hit. But if it wasn't there, you would have still missed.
People really REALLY need to listen to the stream and understand what is actually going on.
If you hit, the dressing makes sure it looks like a hit.
If you miss, the dressing might make it look like a hit but it is still a miss.
Ah yes, I "actually missed" when the game decided to cut my lunge off immediately (despite holding down M1) in order to hit that tree. Brilliant.
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@Nysos said:
Because if the hook didn't count as a deep wound this killer could practically instana down every one. The game would go to quick. Personally i would LOVE if that wasn't the case,but it's for balancing purposes. I've noticed any killer abilities that can instana down has a two step process.
Jeffslinger would also have a two-step instadown in this case. Step one, fire gun. Step two, M1.
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jeffslinger is the legion rework we always wanted
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@mouse0270 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1124215#Comment_1124215
Don't worry about, I try not to start them either.
- I play the following killers: Huntress, Piggy, Spirit, Oni, Wraith, Legion and Ghostface
- Huntress: BBQ, Nurses, Iron Maiden and Corrupt
- M1tress: Enduring and Devour almost always the other two perks are a combination of Save the Best for Last, NOED, Brutal, Fire Up, Spirit Fury or Bamboozle
- Piggy: Monitor, Whispers, Enduring and Brutal (Sometimes I switch Brutal out for BP)
- Spirit: Just BBQ, I would play her perkless, she doesn't need them, but I like the bonus BP from BBQ. I often start phasing before I can even proc anyone with BBQ
- Oni: Enduring, Brutal, Infections Fright and I'm All Ears
- Wraith: Enduring, Brutal, Fire Up and Bamboozle (with swift addons)
- Legion: Enduring, I'm all ears, BBQ and Nurses
- Ghostface: Enduring, Monitor, Whispers and I'm all Ears
- Huntress: BBQ, Nurses, Iron Maiden and Corrupt
So to answer your second and third question, I am going to explain my reasoning and why I feel this way. Starting off you asked the following:
Why do you consider a 2k to be a win?
I think I can see where you misunderstood me on this as I said:
I think this game is fairly killer sided at least by my standards of a win. Probably the biggest factor that makes me feel this way is that the game should result in a 2k 2 Escape.
Which re-reading seems to imply that I think a win, is a 2k 2 Escape, when I really only consider that a Tie, however, I don't consider a Tie a loss. So I guess technically it is a win. But to be clear, I consider a 3+ kills game as a win, a 2k game as a tie and 0-1 kills a game a time.
Now onto you much more complicated question.
If I said that a killer needs to be more skilled than the survivors they go against in order to win, would you agree with me? Why or why not?
This really depends on the tactics you use during your game, for example, if you heavily rely on Tunneling, Slugging and Camping/Proxy Camping, then No, you don't have to be more skilled to win, These general tactics will on average award you between 2-3 kills at least per game. However if you do not use those tactics, I believe you do have to be a better skilled player to win more games on average.
Now, don't get me wrong, I've totally Tunneled and Camped (not sure I ever slugged for a 4k) before. However this is not my general playstyle. I would in general consider myself a fair killer. I am generally in red ranks with the builds listed above without using those type of tactics. However, it probably takes me slightly longer to get back to that rank due to the fact that I tie more games then I win or lose.
Lastly, here is my argument why you shouldn't consider a tie as a loss and consider it a win. If you are playing survivors of equal skill of you, should you win every single game? Of course not, if you are winning every single game, you are not playing survivors of equal skill are you? Should you lose every single game, of course not. You should tie more often then win or lose if you are playing against survivors of equal skill. Now keep in mind, mistakes happen on both sides, meaning a can still win and lose when playing against people of equal skill, but it should be rarer than tieing.
Now think back on that, if you are winning more often than tieing, why is that? Could it be your choice in perks? Because old Ruin + Pop really carried some killers past their skill levels. Could it be your choice in playstyle? Because slugging for a 4k or tunneling everyone off hook, will insure easy kills. Not kills earned via skill.
As a side note, I would like to point out, I rarely ever see negative comments on my steam profile (I think I've got 2) nor do I see people crap talking in End Game Chat. I even actually complain way more about killer related perks than I do survivor related perks. For example, I have zero issue with Borrowed Time, DS and Unbreakable. Since they rarely impact my games. Since I chase the rescuer, Borrowed time isn't an issue for me, Since I rarely slug, Unbreakable rarely happens (I actually love when I see an unbreakable play, like the other day, I had two survivors escape because one used tenacity to crawl out and the other used unbreakable and I freaking loved that). As for DS, my only real issue with this perk is when someone either runs at me, does a gen in front of me, or uses it in the exit gate.
- Alright, you play killers from all parts of the tier list. Fair enough.
- Ahhh, I see now. Personally, I think classifying a tie as a win or a loss defeats the entire purpose of having a tie in the first place - in my eyes, a tie is a tie, no more and no less.
- Camping and tunnelling don't net you kills, and if they do, chances are you shouldn't be at that rank anyway. You need to be juggling four survivors at once, and these two "strategies" are quite similar - they force you to juggle one survivor while the others do gens. There are absolutely times when camping or tunnelling is appropriate, but these times are rare. As for slugging, virtually every killer has to rely on it at some point. Ask pretty much any skilled killer main (I'd recommend Fungoose, Scott, Otz or Zubat) and you'll get the same answer - even these guys have to slug. So yes, killers rely on slugging a lot. Doing otherwise means throwing the game, unless the survivors you're against are significantly below your skill level.
- It's totally fine that you don't mind Unbreakable! I admire your ability to not get frustrated. Just realize that, for quite a few people, Unbreakable is incredibly frustrating simply because a single survivor running it can turn a 4k into a 0k by holding M1. It completely hardcounters slugging, which, as mentioned before, is often necessary in order to come out on top.
- DS is meant to be an anti-tunnel perk, so it shouldn't punish killers who aren't tunnelling. All it needs is to deactivate when another survivor is hooked.
- I play the following killers: Huntress, Piggy, Spirit, Oni, Wraith, Legion and Ghostface
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@Coder said:
I'm not OK with the "North/south" premises. You can have fun on a balanced game and also on an unbalanced game. I play wraith, I know about it.
I also main Wraith, and that means your view is most likely smack dab in the middle of north/south.
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I remember when "pls nerf freddy" was a meme.
Good times. Good times.
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@mouse0270 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/476/8C9NOH0JMRJI.png
Before reading below, please keep in mind that this information is based on my average games, I am specifically overlooking the rare 4 man Swat Style SWF teams. Because as killer, I just accept that I will lose that match and just try to enjoy the chases as much as possible.
I think this game is fairly killer sided at least by my standards of a win. Probably the biggest factor that makes me feel this way is that the game should result in a 2k 2 Escape. As I move down in ranks, I manage to get 4 kills a game on average until I hit red ranks, in which I still manage to average 3 kills a game. Which is what I believe is above what I should be averaging assuming I am playing with survivors of my same or similar skill level.
Basically if you are playing with four survivors of a similar skill level you shouldn't manage to get 4 kills unless they are just making stupid mistakes all game long. Now the problem because when you include SWF (Please keep in mind, I rarely ever play solo survivor, I always play SWF), because a 4 man SWF that is playing optimized and are being very objective focused will crush me.
My problem is statistically those games are 1 outta 10, meaning to balance the entire game around those uncommon matchups would just be ridiculous, it would make it so that I would basically 4k 9 outta 10 games and get maybe a 2k 1 outta 10.
So basically if you are trying to play this game at your skill level, you should be getting roughly 2 kills a game. If you are getting more, in my opinion at least you are playing with survivors under your skill level or using playstyles / perks that buff that for you statistically and most likely making your games more stressful for yourself as a killer.
Couple questions (friendly, I'm not after a fight):
- Which killer do you play most often?
- Why do you consider a 2k to be a win?
- If I said that a killer needs to be more skilled than the survivors they go against in order to win, would you agree with me? Why or why not?
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@DelsKibara said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/802/NGL5C0XVE7OX.png
The fact that Dead by Daylight has a political system of it's own is kinda terrifying.
But overall, I have most of the same opinions as OP:
- I think Dead by Daylight favous Survivors more. However...
- I do think Killers who are genuinely skilled wouldn't struggle as the Forums would lead you to believe.
- Controversial Opinion: But I genuinely believe killers who struggle with every kind of SWF, no matter how unfair they may think it is, are just not a good killer. Disagree with me if you like, but I will still think that a Killer who cannot beat a simple SWF team no matter how sloppy, in my opinion, is not a valid voice to listen to when discussing balance changes for both sides. You're still learning, don't hamper that by actively ignoring challenges like SWF groups. I know some people play this game to relax, but if you are aware of the Killer side's stressful nature, why are you playing Killer? Yes, I know Survivor can get boring but if you are playing to relax, you would better off play something monotonous and tedious like Survivor.
- And yes, I know there are the death squads and the bully groups. If you do meet them, just take my advice and don't give them the game they want. Don't commit to chases to people who obviously want to be chased, play in a way that no normal killer would play, just don't give them that game. Force them to complete generators, kick them out and move onto your next game.
- With that said, I feel that second chance perks do need some changes. Not to how powerful they are, but to how frustrating they are to face. DS can make you feel like you're losing momentum in the game, when in reality that is not what it's doing. 5 Seconds may feel like a lot of time, but you can still regain those 5 seconds back easily. It's just frustrating to see that darn icon while you are stunned for 5 seconds. It makes you feel like you're losing when really, you should focus more on the advantages and pressure you've already given to survivor. But that will always weigh heavily on your mind. That perk can make even the most peaceful man in the world go wild with how frustrating it is to see from the Killer's FOV.
I agree 100% with your SWF and death squad points. It kinda saddens me that people still whine about SWF. Yes, they are inherently more powerful because of communications, but each individual player also needs to be good. I personally think that voice comms should be added into the base game (with the option to mute, of course, since this is DBD) - this way, BHVR can address how broken a death squad can be without utterly screwing over solo queuers.
With your point on second-chance perks, I disagree somewhat. It's not that it feels like you're losing pressure, you absolutely are. That 5 seconds really isn't just 5 seconds; that's just their headstart - depending on how good that survivor is at being chased, you can very well lose up to a whole minute. There's a second-chance perk for everything:
- You've been unhooked and run face-first into the killer because you know you're invincible? DS.
- Killer slugs to get more pressure? Unbreakable.
- You've been mindgamed and won't make it to that window or pallet? Dead Hard.
- The killer has cleared all pallets around a generator? Sprint Burst.
- You've been hooked and the rest of your team is incapacitated or occupied? Deliverance.
- You've been farmed off the hook in the killer's face? Borrowed Time.
- You're injured and don't want to waste time healing? Just do gens and heal with Adrenaline.
Not all of these perks need to be changed - the only two that do, in my opinion, are DS and Unbreakable - but it really does make you feel like a punching bag more than a killer.
You mentioned that you don't mind how powerful the second-chance perks are. I agree. It's the second-chance aspect that makes these perks genuinely frustrating. You could buff every single one of them, but if you removed the "lol my mistakes don't matter" part, I'd be quite happy, and I think a lot of killers would agree with me there.
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@AshleyWB said:
I agree that dbd is very Survivor sided but I don't think balance makes the game much more fun. A few things like iri head can be annoying but I can easily use it myself so it's not so bad.
Maybe, but I think Iri Head is both unfun and unbalanced.
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Thrilling Tremors
Pop Goes the Weasel
Enduring
Filler perk. I run BBQ for points, but STBFL, Brutal Strength, Spirit Fury, Infectious Fright, Devour Hope... all work very well on Wraith.
I run double Swift Hunt addons, but most addon combinations on Wraith have some use.
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So... slightly weaker base DS. No.
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but bhvr need monie zubSAD
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@Almo said:
This is why the Gatekeeper emblem was changed with Ruin. In terms of emblem points, it's no longer important to keep 5 gens up the first two minutes to get all those points.
In terms of the game's power curve, it's expected the first couple gens go fast. 4 Survivors, one Killer... several chases to get one Survivor out. But as the number of gens to patrol decreases, it becomes easier for the Killer to patrol, and their power rises. As the Survivors die off, the Killer's power increases more as there are fewer Survivors to work on gens.
Old Ruin gave people who depended on it the idea that it should not require input from the Killer to keep the first couple gens from popping in the first couple minutes. But that is not how we intend the game to work. My apologies for leaving old Ruin in place as long as we did; it was hard to find a good update, and we knew there would be a huge outcry from the players when we did the change, no matter how good it was. The moment I joined the project in August 2018 I knew Ruin was something I wanted to change. It took a lot of time and a lot of discussion with the other designers to find something worthy to replace it.
New Ruin requiring Killers to act in order to get its benefit is by design. Its lack of large impact in the first minutes is by design. Its subtlety is by design (by subtle I mean that one of its large benefits isn't mentioned in the text: no need to spend time kicking gens). Because we recognized Ruin's impact on the Gatekeeper emblem and Killers' ability to pip, we made the alteration to that emblem.
We can easily understand players' frustrations with this deep change to one of their core tools. But the opinion of all of us on the design team is that the new Ruin will make the game healthier overall. Our willingness to stand by it in the face of such anger over the change is an indication of our confidence in the new design and the benefits it will have in the long run.
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@Xerge said:
What about Spirit?
Thanks for that as well! ^-^
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@snozer said:
Careful, if you play wraith to much, he will OVERPERFORM because survivors are sick of seeing him and his stats will naturally rise.
The devs will nerf him.
wraif fookin top 3
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All these people saying "just don't swing until they use it lul"
killer: doesn't swing
survivor: dead hards to window
killer: doesn't get the hit anyway
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@Haku said:
DId they fix the fact you are not getting uncloaked when you get stunned or flashlight burned ???Cause I don't see it in the notes ... And that is way worse than the lunge for me
That's pretty bad, but I honestly hated the lack of lunge more. Not uncloaking may be worse, but it just felt so unsatisfying to have to wait and catch up normally.
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/118008/thank-you-for-fixing-wraith
If i could know, what did they fix?
His uncloak boost was bugged, and he didn't actually get a boost. That meant his lunge was cut short and actually covered less distance than a normal one unless you waited.
That's gone now! ^-^
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@LemeTheMeme said:
Make it so that once every generator, you can mori someone that has previously been hooked.
At the moment Moris I find more broken than keys since moris can be used at 5 gens, whereas keys you need to complete gens for it to spawn.
I could make the argument that moris can only be used after you hook people, but you have a point. I personally think they're equally bullshit and should both be reworked.
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Can you blame us? Most of that stuff is map-related, but there are a lot of things to hate.