I_Cant_Loop
I_Cant_Loop
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967672#Comment_3967672
4 gens on upper part which has like 4-5 pallets at best. You can't ask more than that so no m1 killer excuse.
Yeah I don’t know how anyone can try to argue that that map is survivor-sided with a straight face. Add in the the fact that you can easily watch both exit gates a pretty short distance away from both of them.
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It really is crazy how easy it is to get to a safe loop from pretty much anywhere on that map. There’s a reason it’s widely considered to be one of if not the most survivor-sided map in the game. It just takes way too long to get downs and to patrol the gens in the buildings on that map, especially for the weaker killers with poor map mobility and chase power. I guess if I was a survivor-only player I’d probably downvote you too 😉
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967357#Comment_3967357
The demand for “proof” usually isn’t about evidence. It’s just a way to put the burden entirely on the other person while never actually offering a counter.
Ive never seen the opposite shown from the killer side of things, not one poster has had any stats to share for killer that would suggest they are in such a dire state. Or video, nothing.
The only thing I ever see in return is, “Well here’s team elysium”. Which is essentially telling people to "just get good, steph curry hits 25 points a game" while everyone here is playing pickup basket ball at our local gym.If we’re really talking balance, the thing we all engage with when we press the "Play" button on our screens for dbd, then both sides should be bringing something to the table.
Not speculating on tournaments we dont take part in, the games not balanced around, and not where the skill level any of us are probably even close to.Otherwise, it's just a bunch of what if's until someone wins an argument on the internet.
The only “burden” I want to put on people is, if they’re going to come here and repeatedly claim that one side or the other is wildly OP or way too difficult, to back up their claims of based on their kill/escape stats (which are now available to everyone). It’s a very easy thing to do and helps separate those who want to have a real discussion based on the overall data and their personal experiences from those who exclusively play one side that are simply trolling.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967358#Comment_3967358
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7E43VS5BGB9P/stats.jpg
but stats don't really show what actually happens during the matches.
That’s an impressive kill rate - you are definitely a well-above-average player! I have no doubt that there are others like you on this forum that have a very easy time playing killer (especially if you get really good at S-tier killers like Nurse). I don’t think that’s the experience of the typical average player, though. The average kill rate is 60% which means that obviously most other killer players are not as good as you and have a harder time winning (3-4K) consistently.
Everyone is going to have a different opinion about what the target kill rate should be, but 60% feels right to be for an assym horror game. Some players (like yourself) will be much better and some will be much worse. I’m a long-time but very casual player and my overall kill rate is just above the average. The difficulty for killer side feels about right for a player like me. I remember what playing killer was like when the kill rates were lower and it felt much worse (many others felt the same way given how long survivor queues were back then). If we get to a point where average kill rates go any higher than 60% I’ll jump on the “nerf killer” train too. I play survivor about half the time, so I definitely don’t want killers having too easy of a time. -
@Lixadonna said:
Easy role.
Can you back that up with stats? There are a couple others who commented here that posted stats to back up their opinion. I’ve never seen you do the same.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Too easy still.
No tunnel/camp/slug
People with low scores ran at me or tried weird head-ons and flashlights last night.
Was a really close match on a …. hadonfield which I misplayed like crazy. But still won.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MGSR5PI3LTZL/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N9Q7PZV8QKTC/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D7ILU9T92JNT/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F3IU503EADC7/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/W6MKFHU67R35/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FWYCNBR7GP12/image.png
Evidence that downvotes dont matter on this site. A nobody like me, a regular player can get 18 wins in a row and post data and still have detractors.
Killer is the easiest its ever been.You’re one of the only people on this forum that actually backs up their “killer is too easy” opinion with proof, which I respect. Many others who claim that claim killer is too easy will deflect or make excuses when challenged to do the same because they don’t play killer at all.
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My experience as killer varies widely because of how non-functional the matchmaking is. I’ll get multi-thousand-hour SWF in one match, and then nearly-brand-new players the next. And everything in between.
Depends on the time of day playing too. If I ever get to play during the day (which isn’t often), it’s a lot more solo queue and more random skill level - games seem generally easier. Peak evening times has a lot more 3-4 man SWF teams and even solos seem to be more skilled - games seem generally harder. In general, it seems that most of the survivors that I chase know what they are doing and can loop pretty well, making killer reasonably challenging to play most of the time if I don’t camp or tunnel. -
@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966854#Comment_3966854
For me it depends on the Killer. I use two max on Killers that are low mobility and one max on those with high mobility. If I use two it's usually something strong that I can boost with something else - Surge and Pain Res, Grim and Thrilling, etc. - or block AND pop, something like Surge and Thrilling. If I use one, I favor gen block over pop or regression; my favorite one is actually just plain ol' Thrilling Tremors because it pulls double duty as info and some light gen block. I diversify the other two or three slots. Experience does the rest, because you can't replace that with a perk.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966850#Comment_3966850
How is Lethal Pursuer slowdown? How about Coup de Grace, you know, the perk that actively is about letting gens get done for a longer lunge? There's a lot of perks that 100% are NOT "slowdown in some way" because they aren't a form of slowdown in any way.
Lethal: helps you get your first chase and first down faster, which takes one survivor off gens, another off gens to rescue/heal, and maybe a third off gens if you get to another chase more quickly. When paired with other aura perks like Nowhere to Hide or I’m All Ears it’s immensely helpful in finding/downing survivors more quickly, thus slowing them down from working on gens.
Coup de Grace - helps end chases more quickly, which allows you to get back to patrolling gens and starting other chases more quickly.
Anything that helps killers find survivors, chase survivors and down survivors more quickly is also slowing down their progress on gens.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966850#Comment_3966850
Insidious is really bringing survivor progress to a screeching halt
Before anti-facecamp, even Insidious could help killers snowball pressure if they were camping a hook with it. Now it’s essentially a dead perk and should be reworked or removed from the game.
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I have a strong dislike for posts that are intentionally divisive and insult people who choose to play a particular side and are simply trying to win while playing that particular side.
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I don’t even know what “slowdown perks” is suppose to mean. Every killer perk is a slowdown in some way. Every killer perk either directly or indirectly serves to keep survivors from completing their objective faster.
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The downside of this change is that it would make killer weaker. It would be nerfing something that helps killers get hits more easily. If survivors always know that they are revealed, they can counter more easily.
The game is already balanced around the benefits that killer instinct provides. I get your point about new players, but that’s just part of learning the game just like everything else for new players on both sides. Perks/abilities on either side shouldn’t be nerfed just because new players have a harder time dealing with them than experienced players. -
@Crowman said:
If the people that used to go-next by hook suiciding are now just d/cing, that's a win in my book. Avoiding the penalty was a large issue in rewarding rage quitting. Now they get the penalty and the rest of the team at least has a bot instead of being a 3v1.
100% this. I’d much rather have these people DC and then not be able to play the game at all for a while.
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There are a lot of very simple, very-good-for-the-game things like this that for inexplicable reasons BHVR has decided to prioritize behind “5th Skull Merchant Rework”, “Changing Item Colors in Bloodwebs” or “Clown Rework that Literally Nobody Asked For”. They can get away with it because people aren’t leaving the game due to the continued deprioritizing of the things that the community is actually asking for.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965496#Comment_3965496
no they're not. this is "you say global warming is real but have you personally done the experiments? checkmate" type argumentation.
if someone can point to a bunch of other people consistently winning as killer, that should prove that it's possible to consistently win as killer. requiring that everyone who makes that claim individually demonstrate their skill is silly
Your example is not even remotely relevant to the argument I was trying to make, but whatever. I’m not going to keep trying to fix your broken logic. Here is a more relevant example: I conclude that averaging 30 points per game in the NBA is easy because I see on TV that the NBA’s best players can do it. Based on your logic, this is a perfectly reasonable conclusion!
I’m trying to draw conclusions that apply to the average player here. The good ol’ 80% rule - not the bottom or top 10%. If Mr Average Survivor Player is drawing the conclusion that “playing killer is super easy” because they see top 10% players doing it, not because they themselves can do it, they just look foolish.
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965084#Comment_3965084
I'm sure plenty of people can provide videos showing them losing miserably in solo queue. You realize that's what you asked for, right? Killers winning?
Claiming something is easy because you’re actually able to do it and claiming something is easy because you see other people do it are two totally different things.
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No
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965094#Comment_3965094
While I agree in theory (and admit i probably should tone it back a bit, as some of my recent jokes have been a little more mean-spirited than i usually try to be), in practice this becomes extremely hard to enforce. Where is the line between "us-vs-them complaining" and "rightfully pointing out an issue that benefits one side to the detriment of fun overall"? Will people feel afraid to express their legitimate opinions for fear of running afoul of the rules?
If we do look at banning us-vs-them, we should tread lightly with how we do it
Agree to some extent, but there are gray areas around all the rules, like making light of serious issues or being overly nasty when criticizing the devs. Judgment is already required by moderators for enforcing all the existing rules.
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@Coordi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964718#Comment_3964718
Let's avoid the generalizations and sweeping comments about Killers, those who main them, and BHVR. We do not favor either side when collecting feedback. Our job is to deliver community feedback to the development team, without bias.
It would be great have this as an official forum rule (applies to both sides). The “us vs them” stuff like this makes up a vast majority of the toxicity on the forum. All it does is make people feel like they’re doing something wrong simply because they prefer one role or the other. Keeping that stuff off the forum would make this a far more welcoming and productive place to have real discussions.
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@Lixadonna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964702#Comment_3964702
Killer Mains are just BHVR's voluntary Balance Consultants. Just take a look at the PTB Feedback
Thanks for contributing nothing to the discussion except for more “us vs them” toxicity
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Just ask the people who come here claiming that killer is way too easy but survivor is way too hard. They should be able to provide plenty of instructional gameplay video to show us all how to easily beat down survivor teams.
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In my experience, yes
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963813#Comment_3963813
All I want is 50/50 average escape and kill rates. That is not balancing around the "worst" survivors, it's finding a middle ground.
Currently BHVR balances around high MMR 4 man Swf which is a tiny minority of the overall player base. And even then, the most sweaty bracket only escapes 48%.
The game should not be balanced around the tiny percentage of top MMR 4 stack players using filters and comms, that are basically cheating using third party apps to get an advantage that was never part of the original vision of the game that became so successful. But that's the state we're in, the game is essentially being balanced around the sweatiest of the cheaters that can't be banned.
So what if these sweaty cheaters have the advantage at the highest level? Most killers hardly ever face this demographic. It makes no sense to ruin the gameplay experience of the majority of the survivor player base just so a tiny percentage of especially sweaty 4 stacks with cheats can be beaten more than half the time by S tier killers. A 50/50 kill/escape rate is the right balance. It's not the infinite loops of the old days, nor is it the pay to win broken killers that we have post 6.1 up til today. It's just a reasonable middle ground that acknowledges 4 stack SWF with cheats breaks the intended game design and their experience and the few high MMR killers they go against is objectively less important than the rest of the player base.
I realize that some people would like higher escape rates, but remember that nobody wanted to play kill back when escape rates were higher. I remember what that was like. 15-20 minute survivor queues (or longer) during peaks times. Now the survivors queue times are actually bearable. I will admit that it seems that killer queue times are just a bit longer than they used to be, so perhaps some slight adjustments need to be make to buff the survivor side, but going from 60% kill rate down to 50% seems like way overkill and I think would likely bring back extremely long survivor queues.
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Bad sports (winners and losers) are abundant in all online PvP games. Just ignore and they usually leave pretty quickly.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963724#Comment_3963724
As long as killers enjoy something, it doesn't matter how it feels to verse it, amirite?
Seriously, this is nothing but “us vs them” trolling that has nothing to do with the topic and contributes nothing but toxicity to the forum. Why do you constantly do this?
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No, I’m very happy to never see Skull Merchant when I play survivors. I think she’s just fine the way she is
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Yes, the rate at which content is added to the game is too fast, IMO. I’m a pretty casual player, so I feel like I’m already way behind the curve whenever new killers/perks are released. This is the biggest reason why the game is so overwhelming for new players. You basically have to devote your whole life to this game if you want to be competent at using/countering every possible perks combination and killer power.
But, with that said, that’s the business model that BHVR has chosen and it’s worked for them, so I can’t blame them for sticking with it. -
@cogsturning said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LE30TCWVUA7Z/screenshot-20250713-123158.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9NPE6W3NT5CC/screenshot-20250713-123129.jpg
I'm only a little under the escape average but look at the difference in matches played as each. I'm better at survivor. I win many chases, get lots of pallet stuns, run a build that blasts through gens, and am a big team player with unhooks, heals, and taking hits for people in dire situations, even strangers.
On the flipside, as I said, I'm a fair killer and dole out a good amount of mercy, and still maintain an average rate without much effort. It'd probably be a 70-75% if I turned it up a little.
Meanwhile, I'm desperately trying to get my escape rate up, yet it's not uncommon for me to die 10 matches in a row. For me to play double the survivor matches but do much worse is not balanced at all.
I agree though, I don't believe it easy every match. It's just generally easier. The difference is my killer matches, even when the people are skilled, are easy like every other match or so. As survivor, even if we destroy the killer the whole match, they'll just panic and start slugging, or they'll have NOED. The issue is more that the game rewards bad killers but never rewards bad survivors.
@I_Cant_Loop
Thanks for sharing! It’s very interesting that you have such a different survivor experience than I do. I don’t consider myself to be particularly good at all, I play solo queue almost exclusively, yet my all-time escape rate is 43.2%.
Your comment about the game rewarding bad killers I can agree with, especially about NOED. I can usually predict when a killer has NOED just based on how the match goes. It’s super frustrating when you’ve run a killer for most of the match and then he just gets a free kill (sometimes more) at the end because he equipped a single perk. Survivors have hatch, but killer can easily negate it by slugging 2nd to last survivor and finding/downing the last one so that hatch doesn’t spawn. -
@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963644#Comment_3963644
I don't bother keeping up with my stats but I know how it feels to play both. I would say I win one or two times out of ten and those wins are purely RNG, killer playing nice, throwing, etc. On the flip side I win a majority of killer games and when I lose it is because I played nice, too easy, etc.
If you a good survivor, 40% is not balance. Sorry but you should be winning more.
Bad survivors shouldn't automatically lose all their games because the game "gives" killer an automatic advantage.
It's a PvP game, not a power fantasy whatever.
I don’t believe for one second that you are that good at killer but somehow that bad at survivor. Why don’t you post your stats from the BHVR stats page? At least I could believe you then.
“Bad survivors shouldn't automatically lose all their games because the game "gives" killer an automatic advantage” — I interpret this as you want the game to be balanced around the lowest end of the skill curve. Ok, you’re entitled to that opinion, but let’s play out what would happen. Balancing the game so that the worst survivors can consistently escape means that it would be literally impossible for killers to ever have a chance of winning at higher levels. Nobody would want to play killer and you would either have hour-long survivor queues or killer bots. I remember when kill rate were lower having extremely long survivor queue times during peak evening hours, and it the average kill rate wasn’t even that much lower than it is today’s. If that’s the way you want the game to be, ok, but I think a vast majority of players would disagree with you.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963580#Comment_3963580
Nah killer is easier. I'm a super fair killer. No tunneling and no camping. I also give unhooked people time to heal and will swerve if I stumble on them on accident. I give hatch a lot. Even being chill and merciful my kill rate is average at 60% and I still manage to get 4ks regularly.
I'm significantly better at survivor and do much worse (below the 40% survival rate). I take breaks from surv solely because I get tired of losing.
can you share your stats? I give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re being truthful, but I’m a bit skeptical based on my experience. I feel like I’m a an average-skilled survivor, yet I have been able to achieve 40% escape rate in solo queue. Killer experience is highly variable. I’ll get stomped sometimes by coordinated SWF teams (or even very good solo squads) and sometimes it’s a cakewalk. But it’s definitely not consistently easy match after match.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963580#Comment_3963580
Killer mains always love to say people don't play killer if they say killer is easy. If you win way more playing killer then by definition it is easier and you can conclude it is unbalanced.
I’m not a “‘main” anything. I play both sides. I have proven it with my stats, unlike you. Every time you have been called on out this, you just deflect rather than prove me wrong. The invitation always stands for you to provide evidence otherwise.
What is your escape rate, anyway? I’m very curious to know what escape rate is leading you to the conclusion that playing survivor is “impossible”. I’ve shown my stats on this forum - I’m right around the 40% average for solo queue. Many others have shown this as well. If you consider winning 40% of the time to be “impossible”, you’re welcome to that opinion but I think it’s a very unreasonable one. -
@mecca said:
It's just the usual crying from killer mains where they literally cannot get enough handed to them. Survivor is already miserable to play, and it is baby easy to inflict damage to survivors and they don't want survivors to heal so they easy 1 tap. It's disgusting to say we are in a "healing meta" when literally survivors can't do anything else.
Just the usual divisive “us vs them” garbage from survivor mains who claim that playing killer is “baby easy” even though they’ve never done it themselves before.
By the way, what is your overall escape rate, anyway?
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I agree with Scott on some things but definitely not this one. First of all, if you see 4 medkits and think that’s going to be an impossible match to win - just find another lobby. But the main reason I disagree is because I never run Franklins and I don’t think playing killer is overly difficult (most of the time). Coordination from SWF and overly-strong buildings/chained loops on some maps are far more impactful to my matches than items, which is why I never feel like Franklins has enough value to run.
I guess the one thing I agree with him on this is that Franklins should at least remove some of an item’s charges when you hit someone. This nerf makes it a 100% useless perk that nobody will use. You folks on here that claim that “BHVR only caters to killers and never listens to survivors”, please take note of this one. -
I have no idea how BHVR determines the priority for what they work on. We see things like poor Trapper getting ignored for years despite being the worst killer in the game, but BHVR decides instead to do 12 different Skull Merchant reworks or a Clown rework that literally nobody was asking for and somehow made him even worse even though he is already pretty weak. I guess they can keep getting away with these inexplicable decisions because players are clearly not leaving the game.
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@Carlchen said:
I'm soooo annoyed, I can't even find words to say.
the game getting worse and worse.
the new 'go next prevention' is more than dumb and I can't understand how devs thinks that it's helpful even they are not able to get their worse servers fixed. I can't count anymore how often the game kicked me and I got a time penalty (where I have to click 'play' before it starts. #########!) AND lose uncountable pips. since yesterday I go between Iri4 back to Iri1 and back again. what's wrong with you guys?
The Servers are trash and even that is not enough penalty you punish your GAMER for it?
And even it's not the server: soloq isn't playable anymore!
you got trolled half of the time from ppl who think it's funny let you die on first hook and and than go out after coop with killer and you have NO possibility to unhook yourself or quit such a ######### match. WHAT THE HELL have you devs from it that your gamer (who pay a lot of money and play several years now) by make such ######### possible. It's annyoing! more than that.
After this event (even I was so excited for TWD chars), I'll quit the game until such horrible penalty for paying gamers are fixed. And you will lose a lot of money cause I use to buy each idiotic skin even it's over priced asf.
And I only can recommend everybody whos interested NEVER EVER to buy or install this game! Otherwise I would be the biggest troll of all!
Getting disconnected by the server does not give you a DC penalty. If you’re losing connection that often, it’s a problem with your network connection. Also, if you’re mad that you can’t “quit a (bad) match”, you’re exactly the kind of player that the “go-next” prevention is trying to discourage from playing the game. I don’t feel sorry for you even a little bit. Complaining about buying overpriced skins? Well, that’s your own fault too.
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Neither of the examples you used are “gaslighting”.
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962054#Comment_3962054
Yes, I enjoy the Killer role, and I want to enjoy the Survivor role as well, but that's proving to be impossible against the majority of Killers. Now, I can see where certain Killer can be fun to face - I have had fun matches against a good chunk of the Killers, but either due to the horrible balance or due to facing too many toxic players, most of the Killers do not feel fun to face most of the time.
Escaping 40% of the time means that enjoying survivor role is “impossible against the majority of killers?” What is your average escape rate? If it’s around that 40% average, the only explanation for your statement is that you have wildly unrealistic expectations for how often you should be escaping. If it’s significantly below the 40% average, then that’s an issue with your own gameplay, not a fundamental game balance issue that applies to all players.
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@kosaba11 said:
The toxic side of Killer Mains are upset that Survivors are healing each other. It's the same BS when they claim "gen rushing," just because they were looped long enough for multiple generators to get completed, or how they're upset about Survivors playing with friends (even though that gives no real advantage).
ironic that you use the word “toxic” while contributing nothing but divisive “us vs them” rubbish into the discussion.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961868#Comment_3961868
Just don't play it?
Believe me, I haven’t been. I understand some people like it, but I am not one of them
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@Choaron said:
Just the latest cope that struggling killer mains are having. There always has to be something out of their hands to justify all their shortcomings.
please take your toxic “us vs them” garbage somewhere else
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@Yggleif said:
It's kinda wild people freak out so much about the fact BHVR balances the game around killers getting mostly 2ks and 3ks with 3ks being slightly more common.
Actually, 2ks would be the most common outcome with a 60% kill rate (average 2.4K per match). But there are some people who think the game is “unbalanced” if they don’t get EZ escapes and get to t-bag killer at the gate in 98% of their matches. Fortunately BHVR doesn’t make their balance decisions based on the fringe outliers on both sides who have wildly unrealistic expectations.
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@jedimaster505 said:
This is for all the players—*cough cough* killer mains, who ignorantly believe that the 60:40 kill to escape ratio is "balanced" gameplay and that it should stay this way because killer is "supposed to win". This delusion is a confusion about what the word "balance" means, which is essentially the equal and right distribution of something.
Imagine you have a scale which weighs gold coins. You put 60 coins in the left plate, and 40 coins in the right plate. The scale is going to fall down on the left and raise up on the right because the scale is clearly imbalanced. Imbalance is poor balance and what we want is good balance for a video game to be fun. This fact is not controversial, not even for Dead by Daylight.
Equality is good balance because it makes for the most fair ratio of challenge to reward, which produces a flow state for every player involved. The flow state is the unity of opposites which is the pure bliss that makes any game worth playing. A game with too little challenge is boring, while a game with too much challenge is frustrating, and if this imbalance is severe enough, players will simply quit the game. It is no coincidence that the suicide on hook and DC rates were so high for survivors before the go-next prevention was implemented. This was merely a symptom of how heavily killer-sided the game has become.
In the game's current state you basically fall asleep while playing killer on auto-pilot as the game hands you one free and easy 3-4K after another with no effort required. Whereas on survivor side you have to actually apply your intelligence to even stand a chance of escaping against clearly overpowered killers with broken mechanics.
So it is imperative that the devs severely nerf tunneling, proxy camping and slugging across the board on all killers as these are low skill cheese tactics that offer way too much reward with little to no challenge, which means the killer never has to learn anything to be good at their role. A game which does not teach anything to the player has far less value than a game which educates the players, and this should include both survivors and killers, not only survivors like in the game's current state.
This global killer nerf will bring all killers' average kill rates down to an equal and fair 50% so that all players can enjoy the game as much as possible. This is objectively the optimal possible balance for the game. If you think a 60% kill rate is "good balance" then you are simply biased in favor of killer and giving that role too much importance. The devs could even do a live experiment where they nerf killers down to 40% average kill rate for a year so that they can see how it feels to be on the wrong side of objectively poor game balance. Then once they learn their lesson, they will all believe that 50% is the objectively optimal balance for Dead by Daylight and that the heavy nerfs to killer role across the board that raise average escape rates up to 50% are well-deserved.
You can have your opinion on what the “ideal” ratio should be, but the fact is that nobody wanted to play killer when the kill rates were lower. Some of us here remember what that was like. 15-20 minute (or longer) survivor queues during peak times. The 60% target is there for a reason. It’s all about balancing how many people are playing each side. That’s the way it is whether or not you like it, lil’ bro.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961109#Comment_3961109
That is.. innately how the game is balanced yes. The killer is always stronger. As blatantly shown by the kill-rates currently. In the "ideal" scenario there should always be 2 people escaping, every single match should have 2 people escaping. That would prove the game is balanced in an ideal way, because 50% winrate is the objectively correct way to balance, and BHVR has made it very clear that killrate is a killers win-rate, and survivor's winrate is based on escapes. So 2 escapes in every game and 2 kills in every game means the game is balanced. Just because this is an asymmetrical game doesn't mean it is any different from every other team based pvp game.
The 60% target kill rate has nothing to do with bias from BHVR - they set that rate because they know it’s the sweet spot for making killer reasonably fun to play but also giving survivors a decent chance of escaping. You clearly don’t remember what survivor queues were like a few years ago when the kill rates were lower. I remember waiting 15-20 minutes to get into a survivor match during peak evening times because nobody wanted to play killer. Now, the peak time queues for survivor are actually tolerable.
This is a horror survival game. It’s not supposed to be easy to escape. I’m glad that BHVR takes an analytical approach to their balance decisions rather than listening to entitled players that think they should be getting east escapes every single match. -
@Garboface said:
How funny do y'all find it that the act of tunneling makes people quit and get banned? I suspect this is the payoff. I mean 4 or 5 gens left renders any other argument as to why...just bogus. Probably saying the quiet part out loud but any of you willing to be honest?
Nobody is forcing people to “quit and get banned”. If you DC because you got tunneled, that’s on you. Also, it’s incredibly stupid because why no just wait until you’re dead on hook and go to the next match and avoid the DC penalty. Just wait that extra minute and then go to the next match. I play solo queue survivor and honestly I get a lot of satisfaction when I get tunneled out but the other teammates escape because I was distracting the killer for most of the match. If you’re constantly getting tunneled, then use anti-tunnel perks and use it as an opportunity to help out your teammates by keeping the killer occupied.
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@vol4r said:
If teammate is hiding at 0 hooks and I am on deathhook I most definitely will.
Take chases, team needs this sometimes.
yeah, I’m with you on this one. If teammates are hiding and being useless rather than taking chases, rescuing people, or working on gens, I’m going to make sure the killer knows where they’re at
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960380#Comment_3960380
Playing the game is not toxic, if you don't like what a player is doing, you need to blame the developers for allowing it, rather than the player doing it.
I disagree. No matter how many controls the devs put in place to prevent toxicity, there will always be something that players find that they can do that is completely unnecessary and they only do it to be toxic. It would be impossible for the devs to engineer out every possible toxic action.
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Leatherface is my favorite killer to go against. He is very easy to counter with basic looping, and he can’t do anything about windows without Bamboozle. Honestly I don’t blame killers for tunneling with him because basically that’s all he can do if he ever gets a down. I guess you could say that’s “boring” or “unfair”, but if every match was against Leatherface and all the survivors know what they are doing, there shouldn’t be any reason why at least 3 can’t escape every time. If you’re always the one being tunneled out by Bubba then that’s either extremely bad luck or a skill issue because he’s probably the easiest killer in the game to loop.
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Slugging isn’t reportable, but it can be toxic depending on the situation. I’ve slugged survivors and let them bleed out, but only in response to displays of toxicity on their side like constantly t-bagging every time they drop a pallet or vault a window. Aside from situations like that, I agree that the killer is at fault for being overly toxic to let survivor bleed out like that.
This is why BHVR needs to allow survivors to abandon if they are slugged as one of the last two remaining. At that point, the match is effectively over. People on these forums have pointed this out to the devs/mods repeatedly, but nothing has been done yet. It would be nice if they didn’t take so long to make what should be a very simple, straightforward and logical change.