I_Cant_Loop
I_Cant_Loop
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@sinkra said:
The first new gameplay mechanic added for survivor in years, only to be destroyed after one week because killer mains with 70%+ kill rate found it "annoying". Maybe in 10 years devs will come up with a new idea to make survivor gameplay fun and not a borefest. Until then, I'm out.
Ok - as long as you’re out, can you also stop with the endless “us vs them” forum posts?
What’s your escape rate, by the way? Wondering what it would need to be to make you happy.
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@Coordi said:
What stats would you be interested in seeing?
It would be awesome to have a continuously updated (even just once per week would be good enough) stats page in the game that players could look at while waiting for a match. Including things like:
Kill rates by killer across various MMR levels
Survivor escape rates by MMR level and 0-4 man teams
Killer pick rates
Perk pick rates for survivors and individually for each killer
Frequency of matches that have solo, 2-man, 3-man and 4-man SWF at various MMR levels
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I was really disappointed with the map and key changes. Serious question: has there ever once on this forum been any post that anyone can remember that asked for changes to how keys and maps work? I certainly can’t remember seeing anything, so it seems that the change from “seconds of use” to “number of charges” was yet another change that nobody was asking for. Super frustrating.
I agree that the fog vials nerfs went too far. I don’t know what the deal is with BHVR either totally overbuffing or overnerfing things so often. Also super frustrating. Keeping fog vials the same with the exception of limiting the frequency of use a bit more would have been completely fine. As many have said here, now they are basically useless and definitely not worth bringing over a medkit, toolbox or flashlight.
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@UsherGod said:
Commiting to a down every chase isn't good for the lower half of the killer roster. Hit and run doesn't work because they just heal the whole chase away in about 10 seconds.
No current killer perk is good for anti heal. Before anyone says it, Sloppy Butcher only slowing the healing speed down by like 25% does extremely little.
Still not sure why Franklin's got gutted
Med kits got a major nerf not that long ago. What is the problem now? When I play killer I really don’t see any issue with med kits. In fact, they are easier to deal with than they were before the nerf.
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@exDbd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978990#Comment_3978990
Oh but every other game is okay with you dc’ing. What if my internet crapped itself? Oh that’s added to the timer. What happens if the server crashes? Oh added to the timer (sometimes). If a match is unwinnable why drag it out. Abandon button needs to come sooner in my opinion. I’ve been playing this game for quite some time but now? The games are horrible, I love dbd but we all end up dying. By 5-4 gens. It’s crazy. I’m solo so it’s expected but when no gen has been touched everyone is on death hook I think that’s fair to go next not sit in a game doing jack crap. Oh and then the killer turns friendly after 2 kills, yeah no, f that.
Server crashes don’t give you a DC penalty. If your internet is that unreliable, you should not be playing online games because you are ruining it for everyone else. Just because you are frustrated with the matches doesn’t mean you should be allowed to ruin other people’s games.
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I use it all the time and I’ve seen a lot of my solo queue teammates use it lately as well.
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Play have the right to play the game however they like within the rules. You may find it offensive when people try too hard, but there are also people who find it offensive if you want to play too casual. Look at things from others’ points of view.
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The only people who want the DC penalty removed are the chronic disconnectors who are constantly ruining other people’s games. The DC penalty system is doing its job by keeping these people from playing the game.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
You don’t want survivor players. And now you won’t have them. Good luck on queue times, killers.
Won’t be touching this again until 2v8.
I played both survivor and killer last night (got back on after BHVR finally made the right decision to kill switch busted perks) and it was fine on both sides. Escaped a couple times (and died a couple times) as survivor, and my killer queues were instant. There were definitely more than enough survivors playing.
What are your specific complaints?
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
You don’t want survivor players. And now you won’t have them. Good luck on queue times, killers.
Won’t be touching this again until 2v8.
🙄🙄🙄
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We would almost never see these posts/comments if people made an effort to play both sides. The best is when we have people claim one side is “baby easy” when they’ve never once produced any evidence that they actually play that side.
The mods seem to do a fairly good job of filtering out the most obvious cases of trolling, but we still see the “us vs them” posts and comments quite a bit and it gets old very quickly. It would be nice if there was an auto-filter feature to automatically remove any post with the words “killer main” or “survivor main” because 99% of the time they are simply us vs them bait posts. -
@Chilli_man2400 said:
on Scott Junds comments and other peoples channels when streetwise was not being killswitched, everyone said BHVR doesn’t care about killers and survivors make up most of the playerbase so that’s why they never nerf survivors.
Hmm how strange fog vials got nerfed almost a week later. Meanwhile clown can go braindead mode and kill everyone with super speed?
But wait a second I thought killers only get nerfed there not allowed to have strong things??
Is anyone going to acknowledge this or are we going to memory hole this to fuel this agenda??
is there any purpose to this post other than to stir up more “us vs them” toxicity?
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@Emeal said:
It sets a dangerous precedent, because it teaches the community if they keep yelling and screaming BHVR will capitulate.
Killswitches should only be used if something is a demonstrable problem, BHVR was calmly observing if their stats would prove Survivors would be getting any advantage from this. But the community would not have any of that, they felt hurt that someone might could have gotten an advantage and they would not stand for that.
What this means is, that every time in the future if something is bugged even if it is benign the whole feature must be Killswitched because of the ghosts of advantage is plaguing the minds of the users, which means every feature is probably deadlocked at release.
Though I dont hope BHVR will meaningfully change the Killswitch Process to cater to unproven advantages, that would be absurd and destroy the game instantly. All major Killers have a bug or two that could give an advantage in some situations, like Dracula its possible for a Survivor to get hit twice by the fire attack if the connection is bad. It happens very rarely, but nono killswitch it now.
What I do hope they do is that they allow their community managers to be more clear about the specific Killrates/ Winrates and Pickrates on a given problem, it would be great for me, because I respond well to stats. Other people might not, people might still be frustrated about problems that isn't happening. Which is somehow desperately close to real life politics.
The message to BHVR should be clear, tell us clearly if a bugged perk is performing too well on diffrent mmr levels, as that should be a clear indication that it should be killswitched.
No, it’s a good thing that BHVR responded to pressure. The dangerous precedent would be BHVR continuing to double and triple down on a terrible decision even after a vast majority of their community tells them that they are wrong. The lesson to be learned here is to listen to the community. I realize that’s not always going to be black and white because many decisions will have varying levels of for vs against, but in those case it was as close to unanimous as you can get in this community.
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@sinkra said:
It's amazing how fast devs act when killer mains start complaining.
what’s the point of this divisive “us vs them” comment? Do you think they’ve never made changes to killer players after seeing mass survivor complaints? Amazing that even something that like 98% of players agree on in this case brings out the “us vs them” toxicity
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I don’t understand why people don’t bring items. Anything, even crappy brown items, are better than nothing at all. Just a simple brown medkit can mean the difference between escaping or not. I usually look for different teammates if they refuse to bring items. I don’t understand the mindset behind intentionally choosing not to bring something that can help your team win.
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I can’t even begin to understand the thought process of whoever was calling the shots at BHVR over the last week. How someone could think that massive community outrage and PR embarrassment was more preferable than temporarily disabling a rarely used perk for a few days is completely beyond my comprehension.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978265#Comment_3978265
Idk What causes it, i kinda just assume its some survivor or killer who is potentially VPNing, which btw is considered cheating/exploiting the server to your advantage. But what i wanna know is how this is impacting the entire lobby, all 5 players getting their ping cooked up cus one person has to cheat? I always report all other players when it happens, just in case one of them actually is VPNing.
I wish that was true, but it isn’t. BHVR have been very clear that they are totally fine with people using VPN, even if it’s to gain an advantage in the game. They do not consider it cheating and are completely fine with people having 500+ ms pings.
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How do you know what server you are getting sent to?
I assume people are getting sent to different regions to help balance out queue times, but I think it’s equally likely that the system is just busted. There needs to be an option to prevent you from getting sent to “outside of region” servers for people who don’t mind waiting a little longer and not have McDonalds WiFi pings.
The real issue is that BHVR refuses to enforce ping limits because they would rather have max number of people playing - regardless of how far away they are from a server or crappy their internet is - than an enjoyable and fair user experience. -
Why did it take mass community outrage and a PR disaster to force BHVR to do something so simple, harmless and common-sense? That is the real problem that needs to be fixed.
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Soon™
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It’s the same reason why bugs remain in the game forever and we get increasingly broken and half-baked content with every successive patch: people are still playing the game and still spending $ on it. Nothing with change with how BHVR is running their game or how they treat their players until their revenue starts to suffer.
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I don’t blame them either. Everyone has their own coping mechanism to deal with this disaster. I’m just not playing the game at all right now.
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@BorisDDAA said:
These complaints don't matter cus 60k+ people are still playing the game daily.
This is very true and it’s really the main reason that BHVR continues to have this dismissive attitude towards player feedback. And it all boils down to lack of competition. Most people will continue playing this game no matter how broken it is and no matter how poorly BHVR treats the player base because there’s no viable alternative for this kind of game. It’s unfortunate, but it’s reality.
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There was already a statement by someone from BHVR that they won’t ban people for abusing bugged perks, so I would not bother reporting people for it . But, man, with how inconsistent they have been lately with so many things, who knows I guess….
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Sadly, I don’t think BHVR’s approach to engaging their community is ever going to change until their revenue starts to be negatively impacted. This remains my favorite game and is by far the game I play the most, but I cannot bring myself to financially support it by purchasing DLC content with how they treat their player base in a way that so often comes off as arrogant and dismissive. I have felt this way for a long time but any doubts I had before today that maybe I was being too critical of them were completely blown away.
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@ScottJund said:
Just so I'm clear:
Stacking a perk multiple times upon itself to gain an extremely unfair advantage = okay.
Stacking an addon multiple times upon itself to gain an extremely unfair advantage = kill switch
The inconsistency is baffling
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KNLJ091RAFMU/readout.png
Not to mention that the Skull Merchant bug affected only a small % of matches because relatively few people play Skill Merchant, while this game-breaking bug can potentially impact literally every single match in the world going on at any given time.
It seems impossible to believe that the devs just don’t want to kill switch it. I’m in disbelief why anyone would willingly choose this PR disaster over temporarily disabling an infrequently used, very non-meta perk. Either they can’t technically do it for some reason and they don’t want to admit it, or some very important person’s performance goals are at risk if they have more than X number of kill switches activated per year. -
Something is seriously off here. If there was some minor issue with Streetwise, a perk that normally very few people use, and it was killswitched for a very minor reason, literally zero people would be upset about it and would just use a different perk until it’s fixed. There just isn’t any conceivable downside whatsoever to using the kill switch in this situation, yet they are acting like it would be Armageddon if the kill switch was activated.
There has to be something going on behind the scenes at BHVR that they aren’t telling us about. Why would BHVR find it more preferable to have the huge community backlash they are getting now by not killswitching the perk to the alternative which would be an extremely low number of people who would be upset if the perk was killswitched? This just makes zero sense to me and a vast majority of the community seem to agree.
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Well, there we go. They don’t consider it game-breaking.
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At this point it’s very clear that the response from BHVR on this one, for whatever reason, will be radio silence. On his latest video, Scott Jund was just showing a Twitter thread where the BHVR team immediately responded to like 70-something minor bugs and then someone asked about the Streetwise bug and if it was going to be killswitched and that was literally the only one that had no response from BHVR.
The devs clearly know about it but have decided to say nothing to the community about it. It really erodes trust with the community to just say nothing, but apparently BHVR don’t seem to be concerned about that. -
@chatgiraffe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927112#Comment_3927112
it's simple, if its a Killer abusing the bug they get banned, if its a survivor they dont.
Do you have even one example to back up this statement?
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They won’t kill switch it, so there’s no point in asking. It’s inexplicable - the kill switch was apparently created for this exact thing. The only possible explanations are 1) BHVR actually wants to keep the bug for a while because it attracts more players, or 2) some BHVR employees have “less than X number of kill switches per year” on their performance goals.
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976369#Comment_3976369
It's not toxic, it's factually accurate. Most killer mains I've talked to or read their complaints on this forum but also on social media as a whole, hold the opinion that the inflated 60%+ kill rates are "fair" game balance and that the "weak" killers ought to be buffed since they're not as strong as the S tiers, despite already having kill rates well over 50%. Of course not every killer main believes this but the ones who don't are a minority which should be quite obvious with the constant influx of doomsday posts about how hard the game is for killers. A large proportion of killer mains even believe the strongest killers in the game deserve more buffs and that DBD in 2025 is still "survivor-sided".
Make a post on just about any popular DBD discussion site arguing that the average kill rates should be 50% to be fair for both sides, no matter how politely stated, and you will be quickly inundated with mass downvotes and a choir of killer mains claiming that objectively fair balance is "unfair" for killers and would "ruin the game" and make killer role "unplayable". You yourself have previously claimed killer role would die if the game was fairly balanced.
So I've been routinely gas lit by killer mains claiming that an imbalanced game is "fairly balanced" despite this being objectively false. There is definitely a strong sentiment of entitlement to killers being the power role (which in plain English, means having an unfair advantage in a PvP game), since this is what the devs have aimed for balance-wise for quite some time. Many survivors mains and hybrid players also hold this same opinion simply because a few popular content creators preach it. I will continue to counter this narrative so long as it remains popular, which is the case, especially since newer players often just assume this narrative is factually accurate and continue to repeat it ad nauseum.
So what would make you happy? 50% average escape rate? If so, that’s fine - you’re entitled to that opinion - but nobody would want to play killer if survivors were buffed that much. Unfortunately that is impossible to prove - I’ll say killers wouldn’t want to play, and you’ll say they’ll play anyway, and we won’t get anywhere.
The only thing I can point to is when kill rates were lower I remember survivor queues being horrendously long during peak evening hours. The queue times during peak hours are much more tolerable now. There has to be some incentive for people to choose the more stressful and more complicated killer role where the whole game rides on your own actions and you don’t get bailed out by teammates for mistakes.
The final thing I’ll say is that regardless of our differences in opinions, your approach is still incredibly divisive and toxic IMO. I’m willing to bet a lot of the people you refer to as “killer mains” are actually people like myself who play both sides pretty evenly and don’t want to see the killer experience nuked into the ground because of a few people who think that escaping 40% in a horror game is unfair. When you generalize about how “killer mains” feel about balance, all you do is feed the “us vs them” toxicity that is such a big problem in this game and on this forum. -
There should be a lot more factors that play into MMR score. Time on gens, time healing people, time rescuing people, how long your chases last, etc. Countless people have complained ever since the MMR score system was introduced that escapes alone is an incredibly flawed measure of skill for survivors. It’s really frustrating that BHVR have prioritized so many other things, including things that nobody was asking for, over fixing this broken scoring system.
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@DeBecker said:
Looks like a you issue.
Why did you even comment? You contributed nothing to to the discussion and just took this as an opportunity to flame a killer player. And in this case someone who said in their post that they already struggle due to a hearing disability. Simply disgusting and low on your part.
I have far more respect for players like OP who struggle but at least attempt to play killer and get better than people like you who don’t play killer at all and just come to this forum with the sole purpose of inflaming the “us vs them” toxicity. -
@jedimaster505 said:
A true Operation Balance would basically entail nerfing the entire killer roster, with the heaviest nerfs going to the S tier killers. Basically the opposite of 6.1 update. Killer mains would not like this. It would mean they all have to play fair matches and can't go on ridiculously long win streaks to farm clicks for social media. But with the current entitlement to 60%+ kill rates, we know most killer mains do not want fair matches, they want a power trip simulation to give them the sensation of winning in what is supposedly a skill-based PvP, that isn't actually skill-based because killer role is generally so much easier to play due to the low skill floor (largely due to the high effectiveness of cheese tactics like tunneling, slugging and proxy camping). Now, we have yet to see what the "anti-tunneling/camping/slugging" and "MMR update" changes entail, as this could be the Operation Balance you are looking for. However, based on track record, I suspect that these measures will be very gentle on killers.
Have you ever once made a post without some kind of toxic, divisive reference to “killer mains”? This “us vs them” garbage is getting so old. You are entitled to your opinion that the 60% kill rate target is too high, but blaming people who prefer to play killer for BHVR’s balance decisions and saying that they don’t want fair matches is exactly why it’s so difficult to have actual grown-up discussions about balance in this forum. We can never seem to have one without someone saying “blah blah blah killer/survivor mains are bad/entitled/whatever”.
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The average kill rate is at the 60% target. Overall, killer strength is right where it should be. Why should BHVR buff killers even more? Sure, there are some killers that are too strong and some that are too weak, but that’s a totally different issue. If your kill rate is well below the average, try some stronger killers and keep working on improving your own gameplay.
I’m a long-time but pretty casual player - I don’t think I’m especially good. I’m able to achieve 60%+ kill rate and I play mostly mid-tier killers (not Blight, Nurse or Ghoul). -
Who was even asking for this? Like seriously, I want BHVR to answer that question. I’m fine with things like add-ons and what the keys/maps actually being changed (I have complained before about these things getting stale because of no updates for many years), but there was literally nobody who was asking for charges instead of X numbers of seconds of use.
I wish BHVR had a rule in place about not changing things that people aren’t asking to be changed. One of my top frustrations with them is that they spend resources on changes that nobody is asking for while ignoring things that are commonly requested by the community. -
@mecca said:
The elitist wants the game to be killer sided so BHVR will never change from that.
Who are the “elitist”? What are you even talking about?
I’m glad that BHVR doesn’t listen to survivor-only players who don’t have to deal with the miserable killer experience when kill rates get too low like they have several times in the past. -
@Dadeordye said:
I mean the game is broken in so many lvls with bugs from TWD chapter…
Why play this game in it's current state?
You may say "no other games do/play what DbD does", but I rather play a completely different game than the broke mess DbD is right now.
NOTE: you saw the title and thought it was another of those "if you are miserable playing DbD you should quit", right?😄I played some matches as killer and as survivor and it was too bad. FWIW on the killer side I did not notice any issues with the “no chase” bug but it’s not like I played dozens of matches, so maybe just got lucky. Fog vials overall were not a problem.
On the survivor side the only real problem I had was bad solo queue teammates getting downed in 5 seconds or spending the whole match blessing boom totems instead of doing gens. Also had people give up immediately against Ghoul which basically happens every time against him. -
@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3975669#Comment_3975669
thats why I said "(for the most part)"
I had a few friends who started playing the game within the last month and all of them had newer/inexperienced players for the large majority of their matches. Of course there was the odd match of some one out of their league, but that still doesnt represent the majority of their games.
I was disagreeing with the “for the most part”. It’s literally every time I play that I get brand new players in my lobbies. I don’t think the matchmaking system segregates new players from the rest even a little bit.
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@Shroompy said:
Cant really have an accurate SBMM system when the average player really.. aint.. that.. good... Cant blame them either, its not everyone who has time to learn 100+ perks on each side, and know what possible add ons each killer has. Pair that with the severe lack of tools in game to actually teach people how to properly manage resources, rotations, looping, etc, its no wonder why so many people struggle to keep up.
SBMM at least seperates brand new players from the rest (for the most part) which is good, but if you had experienced players consistently matched with each other the queue times would be way too long, and thats already a problem when new chapters drop where the majority of people want to try out the new killer.
SBMM absolutely does not separate brand new players from the rest. Nearly every day I see players with 50 hours or less in my lobbies (I have about 2,500 hours). And it’s not due to lobby backfills.
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@sinkra said:
That's why they keep mmr hidden, dirty little secret. Instesd it has "engagement optimized matchmaking", that's why it seems like you flip back and forth between games that seem impossible and games that seem too easy. Also the system groups newb survivors with high mmr survivors with the intention they will be carried. I wish this game had actual sbmm so we could get fair games.
Agree 100%. I was playing solo queue survivor last night and I had a game with some amazing teammates where they had multiple flashlight saves, looped killer for a long time, we all escaped. Next match got paired with brand new <100 hour players and it wasn’t a backfill lobby. This happens on a regular basis for me.
The matchmaking system is 100% non-functional and everybody knows it because we all see it every time we play the game. It’s a big reason why BHVR won’t show MMR scores in lobbies - it would confirm what we all know already.
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I play killer about half the time and I agree having lower variability in the difficulty of matches would be great. It seems like in a lot of matches I steamroll the survivors or they steamroll me. A comeback mechanic for both sides like we see in 2v8 would help reduce the variability in outcomes and I would very much support that as long as the 60% kill rate is maintained.
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@mecca said:
It's really silly. BHVR wants killer to have no skill requirements though. Killers are balanced for sub 20 hour players to win easily.
I don’t find it easy to win consistently as killer. My kill rate is slightly above the 60% average. Some matches are easy, sure, but many of them are incredibly challenging with plenty of 0 or 1K matches to offset the easy ones. Based on other threads I see many others saying the same thing. What are we doing wrong? It would be very helpful if you could show us some of your killer gameplay so we can learn your secrets to “winning easily”. What’s your kill rate? I assume if you are easily winning every match it has to be well above 60%.
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I feel very disappointed with BHVR lately as well, but unfortunately they’re just going to keep putting out the same sloppy and broken content because people keep paying for it and the player count is higher than ever. Nothing will change unless large number of players leave the game and revenue starts to drop significantly.
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@coolgue1 said:
Killers returning to hook immediately after a survivor is unhooked has gotten way too common after 1 gen pops. It's in basically every game now. BHVR made it blatantly easy for them — the killer gets a free HUD notification the second someone is unhooked, and that’s all they need to just turn around and go right back. No guesswork, no risk, no strategy — just brute force abuse of the UI.
And the funniest part? These are the same killers who come to the forums crying about their matches being “too hard.” Maybe if they actually tried to chase and loop like the rest of us, instead of hook proxying and tunneling off the HUD, they’d learn something. But nope — just abuse the unhook info and play the most boring style imaginable.
BHVR, please — survivors are getting burned out. You’ve created a system where killers are rewarded for ignoring chases and skill, and just hovering around hooks to farm pressure. If you want the game to stay healthy, you need to fix this.
Suggestions:
Delay the unhook notification for killers
Add aura blocking or deterrents for hook returners
Even minus blood point gain so they can't farm for BP because it way to easy for killer to get max BP doing this and u can get max BP easily playing normal
Right now, the killer role is being babied with free info and no consequence, while survivors are punished for trying to play the game normally. It’s not balanced.
I understand it a strat yes but the fact the BHVR talking about trying to fix tunneling and camping is what this post is about if they are really that worried about it they should make killer only see how many hook states they have and a left to get not a giant come get the survivour thay just got on hook sign
”Abuse of the UI”? Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure killers have had a way to know that someone was unhooked since the inception of the game with noise/visual notifications.
Also, can we assume that since you’re criticizing the way other killers play that you yourself can easily win without ever playing this way? Would love to see some video and stats to back this up. -
@Lixadonna said:
The problem isn't Vigil it's Friends Until the End.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone else complain about Friends Till the End
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I don’t even know why the kill switch exists. The devs refuse to use it 98% of the time when it should be used. I’m struggling to think of reasons to not kill switch it. It was rarely used before this bug, so it’s not like a massive amount of people are going to be pissed about not being able to use it with this exception of the large number of people that would be upset about not being able to abuse the bugged version in matches. But now, more than ever with this latest patch, I’ve come to expect inexplicable decisions as the norm.
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I used to run Clairvoyance a lot to hedge against useless solo queue teammates, but I found its usefulness declined after the devs nuked the s*** out of stealth playstyle and also the introduction of the finisher mori which seemed to incentivize more slugging for 4Ks. Before these changes, it was much easier to stay hidden in unwinnable situations with only 2 survivors remaining. Even if killer was bent on the 4K, often times they would give up if you could stay hidden long enough. Now, with stealth no longer viable, killers can find that last survivor much more easily and quickly. The only way you can hope to get value out of Clairvoyance for hatch escapes now is pray that the killer isn’t going slug for the 4K and come looking for you, which doesn’t seem to happen that often anymore.
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100% agree that BHVR seem to only have a sense of urgency to fix things when the bottom line is threatened. The strategy has worked well for them, so I don’t see why they would change course (as unfortunate as that is for us as players).
The only reason they can get away with continually pushing out broken patches and ignoring feedback is people the player base largely tolerates it. A vast majority of people obviously are not bothered enough to stop playing or at least stop spending money on it.