HexSlugged
HexSlugged
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I hate backwater swamp. i cant see anything on the map as killer and the grass covers the scratch marks so much and if im playing victor im being face slapped by grass most of the time.
I can track well enough on other maps excluding coldwind though i have gotten better over the years but backwater swamp i will lose even the most baby of survivors
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yea its a known bug. i have encountered it too. i dont know what the fix is on ps5 but when exiting out the menu hitting escape again fixes the audio. so perhaps the ps5 version of that input would fix it for you.
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@roterbaz said:
Ofc trash survivors gonna beg for nerfs again just like with every previous released killers
killer is my favorite role to play.
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@CrimsonMothKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088590#Comment_4088590
With how fast his projectile is and the map mobility he has, plus you can use his tp to block windows and pallets (and break pallets) I don't think he needs the initial speed, let alone for how long he keeps it.
His tp doesn't have a lot of down time, it's on a 12s cd. That's Dredge tp cd. And yes, in gameplays he is mainly chasing. But he is mostly chasing as a 115% killer with a really strong ranged power.
You find a survivor's aura, tp nearby, gain haste for 25 seconds, in that time you either down quick or lose chase, go back into OE and then rinse repeat until you down them.
My main gripe is that a killer with that level of lethality and mobility should just be 110% and not have a way to bypass this weakness just by playing normally.
i just played my first match against him and while ill need more, i do feel it seems like a bit too fast to enter the mode. in the match after a hard tunnel on the weak link right away me and the other 2 held out for a while but when it was done to 1 gen there is nothing we could do because since his mode has no time limit and he can tell what gens are touched its completely stalled out and a loss if i touch the gen because he was literally omnipresent lol.
ill need more to form opinions. Im nowhere near as harsh on killers as is popular among players but i can see how his tp power might need to have a limit at least with how long you can stay in the mode. I also dont think hiding in a locker should be allowed to make you scream.
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and not a single reason given
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its a backrooms inspired mall map
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@CrimsonMothKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088559#Comment_4088559
When he Jumpscares, he becomes 115% for 25 seconds. His tp is on a 13 second cooldown.
i havnt played as or against jason, ive only seen videos but from what ive seen most of the time he isnt in jumpscare mode, majority of the time he is chasing.
his tp is a bunch of down time if hes tp across map.
though i am suprised its 25 seconds. i would have expected like 10-15 because he probably needs that initial speed boost.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088501#Comment_4088501
The survivors are high MMR, that doesn't mean every killer they go against is as well. It's also specifically 4mans. Matchmaking isn't even, and good payers should preform better than average ones. Hell, my 30-day ER is almost always above that 48%, even playing solo in who knows what bracket, but my KR is also above the target 60%, and I'm very average at both roles. I don’t know too many people with numbers below the targets unless they meme around or let people go.
when you say 4man are you referencing 4 man swfs? i had interpreted as just all 4 survivors escaping from your message
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"What is the point of making him 110% if he can just counter act it permanently."
presumably there are moments of time in the match where he isnt using the traversal mechanic. Kind of a strange statement to say in my perspective
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088497#Comment_4088497
because my internet is enough reliable that's why… otherwise i wouldn't suspect of a possible dos
yea that doesnt mean you can have outages happen. and still isnt evidence you were ddossed.
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that doesnt mean you were ddossed.
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a 50% kill rate would mean that on average 2 people escape per match. you obviosuly can swing up or down per match. but if in a MMR bracket whether high or low if 4 man escapes are happening 48% of the time (essentially 50%) then survivors are outperforming killer in that bracket and killer is underperforming as the target kill rate should be around 60 so only 4 out of 10 survivors on average should be escaping.
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when you say "just are done" what do you mean? like the second the game starts gens are already completed or are you using exaggerative language?
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how do you know you were ddossed?
having an internet issue is not evidenc eon its own of being ddossed and i dont think it happens as much as people claim as thats not something you can just easily pull off willy nilly just because you got mad at someone in a match on dbd.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088360#Comment_4088360
Every official stat we have ever been given has shown the killer being favored. The last time we got 4 man high mmr escape rates it was 48%, that is the killer winning more often. Or how about the ones that showed the number of matches where all gens were completed, 49% leaving killers with a minimum win rate of 51%. If 2k's happen even 10% of the time that leaves survivor win rate at 39%, killer sided.
Hook rates? You go for a full four man slug which would show a hook rate of 4 or less. Regardless of the number of times survivors have been hooked more than two of them dying is the killer winning, it doesn't matter how we got to that place especially if any change to make hooking more beneficial leaves those strategies intact.
You can't argue exceptions don't make the rule and then turn around and say but not in this case. Your opinion fails in the face of all real stats.
if 4 man escape rates are 48% at high mmr then killer is heavily underperforming as kill rate should be about 60% and im terrible at math so may misunderstand this but that only 1-2 people should be escaping per match. 4 man escapes should not be happening almost 50% of the time so in that case that would indicate a survivor advantage.
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i think its an interesting hex perk but i think the exposed durations is a tad too long. im thinking more like 20-25 seconds for t3 perk otherwise almost the majority of the game survs would be exposed for free.
Devour hope can have survs exposed the whole game almost but has activation requirement and takes a bit to become active.
But this hex is miles better than the jason hex and is actually worth being a hex lol
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088095#Comment_4088095
While someone like Pixel Bush might disagree with your dismissal of the value of lore in DBD, I would actually agree with all that, which is why I'm not mad about it.
I just personally would have preferred another IP, and don't can't remotely get on board with calling Art a horror icon.
But if he plays well, all will be good. At the very least it should lead to a god-tier mori(s)i would say part of that is because horror icons are usually historical characters, or characters from early 2000s and before that have built up nostalgia and irreverance.
if you made the movie halloween today for the first time in the style of its original i really do not believe the movie would do well or that michael myers would ever be a horror icon.
But because of when it was made and the time that has passed he has become one of the faces of horror.
in modern horror, and in particular gore horror, i dont think art has any modern competition (that i am aware of) over time in another decade or 2, i believe art will more and more get cemented as a horror icon as he gains time that the other characters have as well.
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@Wiccamanplays said:
I'm glad you're happy for it, but personally I've never understood the appeal. The premise of the Terrifier movies is so generic and boring to me ('what if there was a clown who killed people but um actually he's a demon from hell dimension' is laughably weak, homegrown DBD Clown is much more interesting), and the movies themselves just seem like plotless violence for its own sake. There are a lot of other more compelling horror tropes we don't have yet in DBD and I'm actually a little irritated that we're getting Terrifier instead of one of those.
your opinion isnt invalid to be clear, you can feel how you feel but i just wanted to say is while the terrifier movies themselves dont have a compelling plot, there is a significant base of people who just enjoy gorey movies like that in the way that there is a fan base for ######### plot action movies.
When it comes to over the top violent horror, art the clown is the absolute GOAT currently. and as a killer he is a phenomenal fit for dbd. the movie plot quality istelf really shouldnt have any kind of bearing on whether hes in dbd or not as it has nothing to do with it. Only what the killer is. and terrifier is ######### perfect for dbd and is probably a smart financial decision from behavior. Especially since pennywise is not a grabbable license.
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only if your own team mates cant see it and soloq gets turned into chaotic rake in the face circus fest
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@Thusly_Boned said:
I'm not mad about it per se, but hot take:
Terrifier is technically impressive gore porn with a generic clown mask thrown on it. I've seen the movies, and the practical effects are genuinely impressive and creative, but Art himself has all the personality of a mayonnaise sandwich. He's just a vehicle. That entire franchise is built on the kills, because there isn't anything else of note there.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088076#Comment_4088076
Not really liking Art and being disappointed that Pennywise isn't coming can be mutually exclusive.
If people are huge Art the Clown fans, I'm happy for them, but I'd just have preferred this licensing opportunity were used on a number of other IPs and I personally never expected Pennywise and will continue not to.i would just say that dbd is also at its core just a slasher game. theres some lore slapped on the back end that youll never interact with or know about unless you specifically choose to go out of your way to read it and all the game is really just a slasher game. therefore art is literally perfect for dbd as he is a slasher.
i dont think adding more "lore complex" franchises is a benefit to dbd on that front because freddies lore is completely irrelevant to dbd. his only relevance to dbd is that he is there to slash people.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087458#Comment_4087458
I want people to have the option to choose whether they just want to let their brain decay while sitting on a gen, or whether they want to use all that, essentially idle time, to do something actually fun, like chatting with your friends. Consider it's such a big portion of a DBD match. This perk at least gives people the option, and introduces an interesting dynamic around risk and reward regarding stealth killers, as it may not be beneficial to aim for stacks if there's a likely hood of a stealth killer approaching
you should be capable of looking at the screen and hitting space bar and opening your mouth and speaking words at the same time.
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@survivormainwarrior said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087506#Comment_4087506
So you admit the game is killer-sided. Congratulations. Most killer mains are too entitled to concede this. They want to simultaneously be the power role and the victim.
i never made a claim otherwise. I only claimed that your post with the statistics is bad and doesnt make the claim you think its making and it still doesnt because you dont seem to(or dont want to) understand how game design works and what is needed for the game to function well and that is not with 1 player going against 4 players to feel week and not be stronger than the others. a 50% or lower kill rate is not good and is indicitive of problems for that killer. and lo and behold there are killers around the 50% kill rate mark but of course you only showed of the list of the top killers which is only 5 out of 41.
if you want to be taken seriously you should not engage in discussion in this way.
idk why you feel you have to be tribalistic. your not a caveman in 4000 bce
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i do agree that its really stupid how survs will spawn next to a hex 2 feet from them at the start and its removed before you even get to that side of the map. I am almost exclusively a hex build player and i totally understand the risk of losing my powers but they need to have a chance to last long enough for me to get SOME use out of them. I roll my eyes when i start a match and my hex is a literal lighthouse beaming to all survivors to come clean me.
and idk what it is with bots but they are literally magnetized to my hexes. they seem to know where all of them are and they very much focus on removing them
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twins is fine. whether you like it or not slugging is part of her kit and its fine. if survs made better plays they wouldnt get slugged so much. twins is one of my mains and the only time im team slugging is when survs make dumb plays and throw themselves into that situation.
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@survivormainwarrior said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087467#Comment_4087467
Most kill rates are over 60% and all of them over 50%.
Both Vecnas are far more common than 1%.
I only posted the most recent data. We have years of Official data including when kill rates were broken down per killer character and all of them were killer-sided at both broad and high MMR. Even Trapper, commonly cited as "low tier", had a very respectable 57% kill rate.
Yes, learning to counter 41 unique killers is far more challenging than facing the same survivor mechanics every match.
The game is heavily killer sided and yes the data confirms this beyond a reasonable doubt.
the kill rates need to be over 50 and really around the 60% mark for which the most part they are though there are killers that are underperforming bassed off the 60% thats sought.
the game NEEDS to be killer sided on kill rates for killer. thats why the target rate is 60% and a good chunk of killers fall below the rate they should be achieving by the devs own internal design aspirations.
you may think you have an argument in your favor but you dont.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087461#Comment_4087461
Really unfortunate as there won't be a bunch of mods preventing toxicity atm since I'm assuming they're managing the anniversary stuff
unless its explicitly breaking rules they arent going to do anything. being annoying isnt against the rules. unless they are directly disrespectful or something similar they wont do anything about it.
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@survivormainwarrior said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087462#Comment_4087462
In no universe is a 60%+ kill rate across all MMR even slightly survivor-sided.
yes the very top kill rates are over 60% in part as stated by the devs and others part of that like with vecna is you can play 100 games and never see 1 vecna. and so when you play against killers you have no experience with yes the kill rates will be higher.
there are 41 killers. you posted a picture with 5.
i should not and will not need to break down to you like its 3rd grade the problems with your post.
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@survivormainwarrior said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087426#Comment_4087426
Its not derailed. I told them the truth to start on killer if they want it easy. You challenged this assertion and I provided data proving you are wrong. Case closed.
it didnt prove that at all.
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i wouldnt say trolling, just a one of the kinds of people that seem insufferable to be around that plays dbd while being miserable
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@survivormainwarrior said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087304#Comment_4087304
Killer mains have invented an imaginary pallet density increase bug, as well as completely rejected Official data in favor of inaccurate Nightlight data. They play the victim as the power role. So yes, complaining about survivors getting the same free BP is not beyond them.
yet the only one complaining about it or referencing complaining about it is you.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087162#Comment_4087162
and assisting my team.
Still a very romanticized version of literally just sitting at a gen and staring forward while the mind slowly decays from inactivity.so you want to make it even worse. got it.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087195#Comment_4087195
Lol, yeah just make breaking a 3 gen next to impossible. Let me guess you were fine with chess merchant too since survivor enjoyment does not matter?
this power doesnt prevent 3 gens from being broken. there are also far more loops than traps.
Trapper has alot of downtime and needs the ability to close loops better because right now he has way too much down time and can only effectively shut down one part of the map
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086857#Comment_4086857
This perk also engages with the game. I'm not sure if you forgot but the second most powerful component quite literally forces u to engage with the game. Because otherwise, the perk has no real power.
Also, it's funny that you purely consider sitting at the generator the gameplay you wish to defend so much. It already barely is any form of gameplay to begin with. And it's hardly a matter of being "Lazy" as the only thing you have to do is mindlessly stare at your screen for 90 seconds.staring at the screen paying attention to the game. therefor playing the game and assisting my team.
I dont need or want the game to play itself for me because im too lazy too pay attention to the game and thus bringing down other peoples experience that is stuck with a team mate who cant be bothered to spend 5% of your attention capacity on hitting spacebar
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086613#Comment_4086613
The point of a perk is to provide power, which this perk does.
And there are plenty of perks that benefit people who want to pay less attention to the game;
1. Premonition
2. Dark Sense
3. Sprint Burst (Helps you not pay much attention to the environment and still get away from the gen safely)
4. Detective's hunch
5. Kindred
6. Rookie Spirit
7. Small Game
8. Spine Chill
9. Stake Out
10. Visionaryall of those perks are to assist you with engaging with the game.
you want to engage less with the game. no matter how much you try your positioning is just wrong and not accurate to the games design or purpose.
If you dont wanna pay attention to the game your playing with other people and as such ensure everyone in the game is able to have the best game you can and you want to be doing something else like chatting with your friend and not looking at your computer screens, there are activities you can do that arent video games that impact other peoples experience that dont require you to pay attention.
If you are going to play multiplayer games that include people other than you and your friends have the decency to not be lazy and play the game or let your slot in the match be filled by someone interested in playing the match.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086561#Comment_4086561
I'm pretty sure they'd have stats or observed matches showing how it performs. Those are probably better than a bunch of people competing against each other to see who could shout the loudest about how a perk is overpowered while it's busy not having an objective, measurable effect on anyone's escape rates.
then why are they actively asking to recieve feedback via people praising or critiquing it?
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086478#Comment_4086478
It is indeed an information source for killers (and in higher elo games one that barely ever get to use). Do you know what other things are information sources? Scratch-marks. And guess what. Perks help hide those information sources. Do you know what another information source is? Aura. And guess what; Perks like distortion also help deny those information sources.
That is exactly the point of perks.the other perks arent there specifically to benefit people who want to pay less attention to the game.
What you want a perk like this to be for is NOT what the point of perks are.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086483#Comment_4086483
Or maybe, just maybe, the perk hasn't been finalised or released so people are just sick of the doom-posting over something that hasn't even happened yet. Crazy, I know!
i mean you kind of have to "doom post" to make it very clear the perk is problematic if it stays as it is right now and the only way that would get changed to be different on full release is if its discussed….
like….you do know thats the point of the PTB right?……right?
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@pidgeon said:
Cross Examination will be the most broken thing to ever come to this game
love how these comments always get downvoted and no one is willing to actually discuss why they disagree. I suspect its because its obviously an insanely powerful perk and survs want to use it regardless of how bad its going to impact the game
if it releases into live as it is, its a guaranteed slot in my build as i play more stealthy and thats far stronger than any other stealth perk in the game. its not even a competition.
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@zonkednb said:
It's not releasing into live alongside Jason, so there's no real evidence for or against the idea of it being changed.
It's going to be problematic if released in its current state. It's a fog vial with no sound/visual cue, no cooldown and activated for free on any loop. I've heard people say "Just use your eyes instead of relying on scratchmarks" but that massively underplays both the hesitation losing a trail causes in terms of free distance, as well as how a killer, confined to limited FoV and first person (aside from Chucky, wolf Drac and head Krasue), spends considerable time in chase not being able to see the survivor.
I played against it on the PTB. It wasn't an issue at first but as soon as players at large realised it works in chase, it became infuriating to deal with. It basically makes leaving any tall loop free if the killer doesn't have LoS. If it didn't work in chase it would have a niche use for hovering for a save, opening the opportunity to do this close by and when injured, or, once you leave the light trail, it should go on a fairly long cooldown after the 5s is up.another issue is that you have to listen for foot steps that arent always super precise anyways through extremely loud chase music that you cant lower the volume or turn off.
if this perk becomes meta (and i dont see how it wouldnt) dealing with this on 4 people in every chase and every loop will zap fun out playing killer more than old dead hard ever could.
the last thing this game needs that already has a pacing issue is to cause a massive number of chases to get extended even MORE alongside far more pallets and safe zones than ever before all while i would say 80% of my matches as survivor have 2 gens done by the first down/hook when only a single chase has happened.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086093#Comment_4086093
Like I said, still a useless points. You could say the same thing for Stakeout. Almost all perks give you things for free.
Though your use of the language of "playing the game" is very exaggerated. We are not talking about a perk that automates your looping against the killer, aka the real gameplay of the game.
We are literally talking about sitting on a gen here. Hardly the gameplayest elements of gameplayings in DBD. And hardly much gameplay at all.considering failing skill checks is an information source for killers and when you are playing the game you should be looking at your screen to hit those skill checks even if you arent listening to the game and this is how the game is set up to work, no you shouldnt get to penalise a player because you want to play the game less which is literally what you are advocating for.
You want to be rewarded for not paying attention to the game you signed up for. you should be punished for not paying attention, not rewarded.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086339#Comment_4086339
Technical documentation is part of my job, I type and write a fair bit and it needs to be clear (but I dramatically overuse commas and regularly use them incorrectly). This is a global forum so I don't expect good writing and wouldn't assume anyone coming here has English as their first language. I also understand that at the end of the day we are discussing a video game, a video game we are both clearly invested in but a video game nonetheless :) , I know I come off as blunt sometimes too and get overly passionate about a silly game. To some extent I am hoping that if this post gets enough comments BHVR will increase the priority of an endgame rework or at least get it onto some sort of roadmap.
I also want to state that I don't think anyone slugging for the 4k makes them a bad person (again video game) but I can say that I would not want to be acquainted with or be friends with a person that would end their matches that way on a regular basis. The best thing I can liken it to in the real world is someone picking up a dollar they saw someone else drop and not giving it back to the person that dropped it (assuming neither of those people really need money). Its ultimately a minor act of selfishness but would make me question the rest of their ethics and motivations.
- The most recent change to hatch was in 5.3.0 so around five years ago. Prior to that change hatch would spawn in closed depending on number of survivors alive and generators completed. It still spawned in and opened automatically with one survivor left but you could find or bring a key into the trial to open it earlier. You could still technically slug to prevent it but to a much lesser extent and only if a large number of gens remained. The dev notes on there state the reasons they made those changes as being a nerf to keys and to prevent survivors camping the hatch (you could find it before it spawned in as well) and just waiting for their teammates to die. Slug for the 4k is a side effect of these changes. I wasn't playing at the time so some of this might be me misunderstanding (spawn logic was a bit weird).
- There are a lot of bugs that have been in the game for that long or longer or disappear for a single patch and then come back in another. With how poorly the game code was written its entirely possible they have tried to make updates internally that complete broke something. Given how long the endgame has been considered a problem on both sides this actually seems more likely to me than slug for the 4k being intended.
- There are a lot of bugs that have been in the game for that long or longer or disappear for a single patch and then come back in another. With how poorly the game code was written its entirely possible they have tried to make updates internally that complete broke something. Given how long the endgame has been considered a problem on both sides this actually seems more likely to me than slug for the 4k being intended.
- I am not abandoning my teammates though, I am slugged on the ground with no way to help them if I could help them I would and the most effective way to do that would be to die. There is nothing I can do in that situation to help them and me being there is actively detrimental to my teammates escape since if I wasn't there hatch would spawn and they would have a chance of escape. I am not in any way decreasing the game experience for anyone else by being allowed to leave, my game experience and the experience of the other remaining survivor are the ones being degraded. If your argument is that the killers experience would be degraded if I was allowed to leave then you have a small point but we are talking about a degradation from winning with a guaranteed 4k to winning with a guaranteed 3k and with a 4k still being incredibly likely. Comparing that to someone being completely unable to meaningfully interact with the game its obvious who needs to be prioritized.
- It depends on whether or not they find the other survivor, if they find them of course they go after them but at that point the match is really truly over and you are not getting back up, no point in me being there anymore. If they don't you get proxied in the hopes that you lead them to the other survivor or the other survivor tries to get you back up. If the other survivor isn't nearby I'm dying to bleed out. If the other survivor is nearby then they get found and downed, no point in me being there. No matter what me being there is not doing anything or changing anything. Maybe just crawling around is fun for you but I think you will not find many people that agree.
- I am certain BHVR is aware but development projects (I am a software dev but not a game dev) are complicated projects and a small amount of spaghetti code can make things difficult to alter even if you want to make changes, even if those changes sound simple. Given the sheer amount of spaghetti code in this particular game and BHVRs clear money sidedness it wouldn't surprise me if its on the list of things to change eventually but so far down the list it may as well never see the light of day. There are also the slugging changes that didn't make it to live which would have effectively nerfed the ability to slug for the 4k (without outright removing it), so you could argue that they had intended to resolve it there but the pushback they received from those changes have made them hesitant to try again (as we can see from the diminishing returns changes having so few other changes, though soon?).
- I am aware it is possible and even mention that I have done it before but maybe a handful out of thousands of game, so a ridiculously low chance of it happening. We are talking matches where the two remaining survivors must dramatically outclass the killer to such an extent it makes you wonder how matchmaking put those two survivors against that killer alongside the two survivors that died.
I understand why someone will slug during the match but once the killer has won (3k) I don't. I cannot see how someone could need a 4k that badly. It may be a game but if I found out a friend was doing it regularly I would re-evaluate that friendship, this game just isn't that serious or truly competitive and if they are not thinking about how it could effect the downed survivor then they quite likely have a childish mindset that I don't trust. If they want the hyper competitive experience we have the comp scene and as a bonus if they don't like certain perks or think matchmaking is poor both of those are in the hands of the players over there. I also wouldn't mind much if it was only an occasional thing but its becoming more and more common to the point that its been nearly every match that the killer wins recently, it wears on you and makes me less and less likely to play survivor.
You can claim that its intended but we have no confirmation of that, I think its far more likely to just have happened by accident and all their attempts at addressing it have been shot down or de-prioritized. I don't mind losing, some of my favorite matches ever in this game are ones I lost, but slugging for the 4k isn't something that allows the survivors a meaningful way to interact with the game. Hatch race at least gives everyone something to do. I am not saying its perfect but its far better than the situation slugging for the 4k creates.
If you want to really tackle DCs, and I agree they happen more on the survivor side, then you have to address why they are happening not band aid in more punishment. They come from a place of real frustration with the game but a desire to keep playing because there is a good game hidden in here and there isn't anything else like it (this doesn't apply to everyone, obviously there are people that just have poor attitudes but those players will never be saved). The reason I have had such a problem with this thread is that slugging for the 4k is clearly one of the primary causes of that frustration that BHVR could tackle and there are so many people defending it. To me personally it is the single greatest cause of frustration, how could it not be when the expectation is for me to just sit there after the match is lost. The biggest problem for this of course is that if they focused on a patch to lessen frustrations people would want their personal grievances included and dealt with, everything would be seen through the lens of balance changes and it won't be allowed to be imperfect at first and fixed over time.
While survivors DC more often, killers complain more (you can dispute this if you want but I have seen too many youtube videos from killers that win nearly all their matches and still complain to think its not true). Those same killers love to claim that all it would take for kill rates to go down is for survivors to learn, they never consider that killers also have skill issues and that kill rates would go up if the average killer player was better. Those skill issues are just not as easily noticed because the game does favor the killer up until we are talking about the absolute highest level of play, simply because it is much easier to snowball on the killer side. When they lose many never consider that they got matched against survivors better than them and they lost because of a skill issue, many jump directly to the game being survivor sided.
PTBs are a great reminder to me that I am probably (not saying with any certainty) better than average, I won all my matches as Jason and my survivor matches were significantly easier than normal (actually weirdly gave me some hope that mmr really does work at least a little). I'm not saying there are no struggles on the killer side but your average youtuber that plays this game for a living or just an absolute ton is not a good judge because they are ridiculously good at the game and out of touch with the struggles of the average player particularly on the survivor side where game knowledge is a bigger part of the game than on killer (it still matters just less in my opinion).
Your average player is average on both sides and they always will be average, even if good tutorials exist you can't force someone to watch them or remember what they said and that is before getting into how different implementing the actions are from just knowing. If you push these players too hard this is what happens. Obviously a balance does need to be struck and we shouldn't push the average killer too hard either but so many simultaneously claim that killer is miserable while winning the majority of their matches. If its miserable while you win imagine how miserable your opponents must have been. I want to reiterate that I am not saying there are no problems on the killer side there absolutely are such as the disparity between maps (which I think effects killers more than survivors), but anytime someone even tries to bring up survivor frustration or survivor issues you are met with people that will insist its just a skill issue and that no changes should be made even if those changes would have no effect on balance, I have even seen people claim that survivor perks on a PTB were overpowered and then they are unused a week after they go live (not saying its never true but more commonly its completely wrong).
I agree that DCing so early is silly but at the same time there have absolutely been games that were lost simply because the killer had a good start. I won't give up but its demoralizing that it can happen that early while its simultaneously possible that the killer could play poorly most of the match and then snowball to a victory near the end, no such comeback exists for survivor. I and the few friends I have that still play survivor are currently trying to teach a new player how to play, I have recommended they focus on killer but they want to join for survivor sometimes. It has been a terrible reminder how on point the entire survivor team needs to be in order to even stand a chance, my solo queue matches are better than playing with them because they are so new. I don't expect to win and am still enjoying my time but the matches shouldn't be the wild blowouts they are either. Unless the killer goes out of their way to play incredibly nicely we lose with many gens left and that's one new player playing with three experienced players (not sweaty or incredibly good but at least decent I think).
(and now I think I have written too much and I don't think I can be this verbose again, sorry for the wall of text)
i think something that would help with these situations is that the game doesnt really make win conditions clear for killers.
With survivors its pretty easy, escape is a rather obvious inference. But with survivors the game doesnt really make clear that if 3 people escape and you die, you still win because its a team game. as such, a good chunk of people in soloq play selfishly (though in my expereince i think overall i encounter generally altruistic and team minded people)
With killers, the only people who know that 3k is considered by the game/devs to be a win is those who pay attention to the game to the degree you and I and the rest of the people that come and chat on a forum over it.
All the game tells you is that as a killer you have to kill the survivors. The inference is that the goal is to kill all 4. and killing 4 survivors is an obvious win because the game ends and there is no one else left to kill but i dont see anything in the game that really informs you that a 3k is still a victory beyond the end game phrase of "brutal killer" or whatever.
So i think alot of people dont feel they have a win or that its not a sufficient win unless they have 4 kills. I think that if BHVR were to make it clearer in game what the game considers as a win it "may" decrease people who stop at nothing for the 4k.
I dont think you can stop it permanently because people are as people are but if the game could reinforce to people more that 3k is a win or even gave another route to see your mori on survivor 3 instead of just 4 it could help as im sure a chunk of people slug for 4k specifically for the mori.
After sleeping on it though, i am less steadfast in my opposition to a slug dc in that situation.
- you are right that its super unlikely for the game to be won in that situation, my argument is based in that small chances are still chances and both as killer and survivor ive ended up winning games i thought were lost and that this game does have a quit when losing midset issue but the chance of winning in that situation isnt just low, its astronomically low and the payoff of gaining an escape would be so rare holding out a dozen times would over ride the rare payoff.
- in addition, the bot still exists on the dc and bots never give up or rat because they are tilted so i dont think my position holds up as well as initially thought.
- I think part of my struggles are that we really have a huge issue with attitude in the community and that its currently shifting more and more into the quit whenever im in a disadvantage and its ruining the game expereince for people. WHen I play killer, when i see a dc it literally kills most of my enjoyment for the match. its not satisfying to take down a bot and its not satisfying to beat a team thats at a disadvantage NOT because i hex the third sealed them and now none of them knows where the hooked surv is and he goes to stage 2 for free (lol) but because a player abandoned them and left them with a rock for brain bot thats bad at everything except for shattering all my Hexes across the map with a single flick of its wrist. as survivor, it feels horrible to know at 5 gens left we are basically a team of 3 and not because we played poorly at the start or the killer pulled off a strong start but because someone didnt have the decency to stick it through in a match they dont like.
- I despise legion with all my heart, he is the only killer i want to blacklist and never play against again and in every match with one i genuinely want to DC. i have zero desire to play, but i force myself to play and to try just as much as i do in other games because im letting down 4 other people who are in the game. If we could better address quitters on these other situations then i dont have an issue with abandoning in a 2v1 slug for 4k situation, but right now im concerned it adds on to an already DC over everything epidemic.
- and i think that one of the main take aways thats shifting my opinion is that i think you are right in that it doesnt hurt the 4th survivors experience for the 3rd to DC there. I didnt care about the killers experience so much (they still got the down and generally the kill) but i was operating under that framework of it hurting the last survivors expereince of no longer having someone to play with and attempt a hail mary or whatever. But after reflecting on my own experiences of similar whenever i have been the 4th all i think if anything is "that sucks" and i just continue my journey on attempting to escape. when im the third almost every time i sigh and roll my eyes and those 2 experiences are definitely weighted more on a negative experience to the slugged survivor than the 4th.
So in conclusion, i will rescind my points in that will i remain steadfast in not wanting further DC encouragement but i think the net gain is higher than loss for an abandon feature in that scenario. If BHVR does implement a change on this i just hope they have some other general pass on DCing (though i do not know what the solution is) and that they have the game make it more obvious to killers in game that they have won if its a 3k. But maybe we can debate this idea, but if BHVR made the End game hook not give so much protection to the survs it could make that play more appealing to killers. I do believe there still needs to be endurance and most of the hook protections in place but right now i think that there is so much safety involved on that final hook in EGC that many killers dont want to play that scenario. I think endurance should be knocked down to 5 seconds and shorter haste buff which i think will allow for a more balanced final play. Theoretically this would make this scenario less bad feeling to killers to where they would slug someone to avoid reaching a scenario they feel is too hard to win.
Though personally i enjoy end game hook plays and i have had some of my most satisfying game experiences in the 10 years ive played the game off and on for have come from the end game plays, i do think that currently end game hooks are really punishing for around half of the killer roster and it doesnt make it a scenario you want to be in.
Thank you for being polite and cordial on a discussion of our differing views. because of that it caused me to be able to really reflect on my positions and listen to yours and as such, i can say my mind has been changed!
- The most recent change to hatch was in 5.3.0 so around five years ago. Prior to that change hatch would spawn in closed depending on number of survivors alive and generators completed. It still spawned in and opened automatically with one survivor left but you could find or bring a key into the trial to open it earlier. You could still technically slug to prevent it but to a much lesser extent and only if a large number of gens remained. The dev notes on there state the reasons they made those changes as being a nerf to keys and to prevent survivors camping the hatch (you could find it before it spawned in as well) and just waiting for their teammates to die. Slug for the 4k is a side effect of these changes. I wasn't playing at the time so some of this might be me misunderstanding (spawn logic was a bit weird).
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086357#Comment_4086357
Idk sometimes before this change existed I would try to go to the other side of the map during two survivor situations for 5 minutes and still see zero progress either way its a good change to add to the game
well we cant really help the dwights and the claudettes in the fog my friend. they will do as dwights and Claudette's do lol
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@iphone_T said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086369#Comment_4086369
yes. We were supposed to get more pallets but killers complained and that change got reverted but they still just throw the word “pallet density” around as a buzzword when it’s a either they’re bad at playing around pallets or they’re just dealing with bad rng. Outside of main building, shack, and the map specific tiles it’s just a couple of weak filler pallets that can barley chain.
they didnt revert it. there are absolutely more pallets per map than before.
i genuinely have no idea if you are being serious or rage baiting because this doesnt seem like this can be a real take.
i can get not feeling the pallets arent overpowered, its another thing to say they are still weak.
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you cant really collaborate with the backrooms as the backrooms isnt an IP thats owned by anyone to collaborate with.
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did my guy just say pallets are VERY scarce?
did my guy say pallets are easy to bypass?
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@TropesDaMan said:
Skull Merchant main here! She is very weak, one of if not the weakest in the game. I main her because i enjoy the effort needed to win and feel highly rewarded. Sadly no, there is no update. in fact there were rumours of her getting reworked with a kamikaze drone power but those were dismantled. latest changes to her were some HUD changes
fellow masochist i see. while i dont play her i do like myself some trapper, wraith and gf from time tio time, tho i think i found my home with twins
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@pidgeon said:
The killer cannot die if they wanted out. For the survivor side if you dc you leave your team a teammate
they can not die, but they could allow gen progression.
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@pidgeon said:
Generator speeds aren't the problem its the pallet density update I will literally die on this hill. People who aren't good in chase shouldn't be able to play against a m1 killer then run to yellow and pre-drop for 3 gens and still have half the map be filled with pallets.
i agree especially if your not a mobility killer if they have any kind of distance on you it takes the entire map sometimes to catch up even without all the sb and lithe and what not. then by the time you caught up they are at the next tile and pallet and then they move 5 meters to the next. you just dont have time to deal with that especially if the survs understand the game well enough.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086346#Comment_4086346
For two survivor situation normally none of the survivors want to die same with 3 gen scenarios. Its used in case any players want to use it from getting bored and whatnot and/or being held hostage
but you could still just go and die though if you wanted out. if you DC, your still losing. im not sure what i am missing here
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id be down to play, but with all my hours, ive never once used a flashlight except for like 5 years ago in 1 match lmao.
im terrible at looping, but im good at stealth and i would say im generally rather phenomenal at not being dumb about hook saves and such