GrimReaperJr1232
GrimReaperJr1232
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I'm confused. Mid bounce? You can't attack while slamming into something.
Do you mean mid rush? Depending on the context I can tell you if this is/ isn't intended
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229830#Comment_3229830
But here's my problem with this. Patch 2.3.0, heal times were increased from 12 seconds to 16 seconds. The stated reason for this change was to give the killer a form of slowdown through gameplay without touching gen times. This change enabled the ability to spread injuries to build pressure; either they risk staying injured trying to do gens, or get off and spend a long time healing.
patch 2.3.0 was one of those changes that affected soloq a lot and did not affect swf at all. Why? A swf can easily regroup and heal everyone in 8 seconds. 2 people healing same person is 8 second heal, so in just 24 seconds, you can heal 3 health-states. Did adding 4 seconds do anything to affect swf's ability to heal? I mean difference between the patch was 6->8 seconds.
For soloq on other hand, soloq already has huge problems in term of coordination when it comes to healing. this especially true at low mmr-middle mmr where there is just no team coercion like at all. Its not uncommon for the killer to tunnel you and for you to remain injured near enough entire game. that is why self-care was used a lot when healing 24 seconds. It removes the teamplay required to find two people to heal you. it had 95% pick-rate or something stupid. When self-care got nerfed, less people started using self-care because they realized that healing for 32 seconds was not practical because you would not be doing any generators while your teammate is in chase and if you self-care outside of a teammate being in chase, you would likely get chased as injured which would make you unable to complete the heal.
In essence, your team is wasting pallets while your doing no generator progression from self-caring. No heal meta was more or less forced because survivor did not get many bloodpoints to refund their items if they died and for long time, there was no good healing perk for its replacement. So what survivors did is run Iron will and Spine chill. Iron will removed the survivor noises reducing risk of being injured while spine chill countered stealth killers and allowed to position yourself better to avoid taking opening hits. Survivor did keep their items and add-on if they escaped, but eventually, they removed the ability for survivors to keep their add-on when escaping and keeping of add-on was moved to Ace In The Hole perk. In order for survivors to keep even earnings on their bloodpoint to use med-kits, they had to run a perk called we're gonna live forever and prove thyself. With these two perks, you could earn enough BP to continuously use a med-kit.
After that, circle of healing was eventually released. this perk essentially bridges soloq healing problems and makes soloq as efficient as SWF in term of healing. COH is like old self-care. Strangely,enough, its not used as much as self-care because old self-care had such high play-rate because it was super easy to use. with COH, you need to know where dull totems spawn and the healing is not global like old self-care.
fast-forward into modern age dbd, due to 33% reduction in bloodpoints, survivors received default version of BBQ because the bloodpoints are worth more comparatively to before. So now survivor can just spam med-kits almost every game similar to how killer used to spam add-on every game by equipping BP perk to maintain their add-on.
Wraith is described on the official DBD website as a hit-and-run specialist, and his playstyle is broken. It doesn't work. Sadako is another hit-and-run killer, and there's a literal #buffSadako movement.
Wraith hit & run never worked at base-kit. Healing was always too fast for SWF and too slow in soloq because of information problems. A popular stream popularized this build on wraith called hit & run, It consistent of these 3 perks - Sloppy butcher, Thanotophobia and Nurse calling. The idea was simple, Sloppy butcher slowdown healing, Thanotophobia stacked healing debuffs allowing to acquire tier 5 mangled effect and Nurse calling gave you information to interrupt survivors ability to heal. In essence, you could hit people, leave them, hit another person, leave them and then locate the injured survivor using nurse calling. Stealth killer need lethality to captialize on their stealth and these anti-heal perks gave them pseudo instant down. These perk are low impact-bad now because BVHR nerfed strategy to the ground and stealth killer with it.
I don't like saying this, because this is a discussion and discussions need different points of view, but if you say 2.3.0 did nothing but harm Solos and did nothing to SWFs, you are wrong. You are factually incorrect.
First off, yes, solos will always get hurt hardest by any survivor nerf. That's just a fact. But to say it did nothing but harm solos? Increasing a heal from 12 to 16 seconds is huge, especially when Self-Care was meta back then despite being 50% as it was for years until the recent nerf. With it going from 24 to 32, the perk was widely considered awful. Why am I restating what you said? Because now survivors will have to group up to heal unless they brought a medkit. That fact alone is a big deal since it makes healing harder, even for swfs. The only time those happen is during unhook scenarios where a team prepares to go for a hook dive or something.
Did upping a heal from 6 to 8 mean much? Well, the pool of collective time spent went from 18 to 24, which is a 6-second difference, which is pretty nice. So yes, those seconds do add up and are meaningful.
Second, medkits... weren't rare. Or hard to get. A medkit is literally one of the cheapest items in the blood web. And I'm seriously questioning just what you're spending your BP on if you don't have plenty of medkits. I have almost 100 Brown Medkits alone on a single character, and I don't even play surv that much (because I play almost exclusively solo). CoH is just a perk that enables a survivor to have a fast, reliable source of healing at all times with minimal counterplay. And no, totems are not hard to find. If they were, you could run Small Game/Detective's Hunch until you learn the spawns.
Third, let's say you're right. The gap is bridged.... it's still problematic and is disproportionately affecting the lower-tier killers while just being an annoyance to higher tiers such as Nurse/Blight. That is a problem because the gap between the weakest and strongest killer is the size of the grand canyon. It's okay for some killers to be stronger than others; it's not okay for some to border on unplayable in the current state of the game if both sides are playing well.
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@lauraa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229845#Comment_3229845
There's a reason Self care is still popular even by itself. I agree that messing with med kits too much would probably be a terrible idea.
Self Care is popular outside English speaking regions. Otherwise, it's not that popular of a perk. (Confirmed by Peanits)
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@[Deleted User] said:
Medkits could probably stand to get the toolbox treatment where charges are capped at 1 or 2 heals. I don't really find them overly problematic on killer because I don't play a split pressure style and my chases typically don't extend for long unless I'm playing like a bot.
Medkits can be ridiculous when you get into the green scissors/32 charge range. I also run Resurgence on survivor a lot of times with a green medkit which lets me heal myself insanely fast after a hook.
The thing to consider here is that medkits are a necessary survivor tool for different reasons at low ELO and high ELO. Low ELO survivors will have trouble coordinating heals and may not know what to do. And high ELO killers that belong at that level don't give survivors time to group up and heal. The issue as usual comes up when there's a mismatch in the matchmaking and we can't tell because everything is hidden. Is a killer not able to pressure because of the medkits or because the survivors are at the far end of the matchmaking range?
Perhaps I am giving the wrong impression.
I'm not saying medkits should be absolutely gutted and destroyed. I'm saying that I believe their current form is problematic and should be changed.
I'm personally a fan of the idea that self heals with medkits should take 24 seconds. Still more efficient than a teammate healing you, but by 8 seconds compared to the current 16.
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@HugTheHag said:
I understand all of this, yet medkits are pretty much all low-ish mmr players have to survive when you don't know when you'll find a teammate for a heal, whether that be because you can't coordinate with solo q or because your friend is occupied on the other end of the map. Not sure how we could tank a medkit nerf. I'm already dependant on We'll Make It to tackle the heal straight after the hook so that the unhooked doesn't flail around the map trying to find someone to heal them instead of doing gens.
Something should be done to buff hit-and-run killers a bit though, I recognize that. Right now, I feel like the only somewhat efficient hit-and-run playstyle is Legion, and that's because people know it's not worth it healing against them (and if you do, well, you'll be found and injured quickly through Killer Instinct).
I reject this line of thinking. Something being fine in low mmr but game breaking in high mmr is a problem. Inexperienced/low MMR players will eventually become more seasoned and improve.
The only reason Legion can get by with hit and run is because they can not only injure easily, but they also inflict Deep Wound, which will slow down your healing. Of course, if you can still power through gens while keeping the heals up, even Legion will struggle.
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I've never seen a community get so riled up over something meant to increase accessibility.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3222124#Comment_3222124
what exactly is preventing that from occurring in this version of the perk? 300% speed. that looks amazing, why does the perk have 0.36% play-rate if the number look so amazing? with reduction of 33% bloodpoints on bloodwebs, med-kit are a lot more spammable now then they have ever been. its almost pointless to run healing perks when every lobby is 4 med-kits.
I said 300% is the conversion were 100% and if it were used with CoH/Botany.
Currently, if you were to do the same now and assuming both survs had CoH/Botany applied, I'd be two heals in 16 seconds, so healing at 200% speed (like We'll Make It), basically.
So it requires two perks, both survs to be injured, for them to know each other's perks... yeah, using a medkit/CoH is just much simpler.
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I used to believe Solidarity could be 100% no problem.
However, that was the old non-healing meta. The current meta is more focused towards fast and efficient self heals through medkits or CoH. With healing being so easy and effectively of no consequence, it has broken the backs of several killers such as Wraith whose entire kit is tailored towards hit and run.
Were Solidarity to become 100% now, it would be stupid. It wouldn't help solos too much, but against SWFs? You could get a CoH and heal two people in 10.7 seconds. In terms of raw efficiency, that's the same as if you were healing someone at 300% speeds. It's absurd. Nerf CoH? Just use Botany that doesn't even require a boon and has literally no counter, rendering the medkit efficiency debuff a non factor.
With heals that fast, even Legion won't be able to keep a team injured long. It's difficult to do it NOW, despite it notoriously being Legion's specialty.
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Want a simple buff? Reduce her cooldown to 40 seconds, but keep her disabling time (cooldown for taking a tape) 60 seconds. That way, she can actually use her power for mobility more than just once or twice without add-ons.... and give a reason to turn the tv off.
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Speaking as the guy who is responsible for the information becoming Public Knowledge, I can safely say: No, he's not.
Especially if you have lethal, you can form accurate guesses about where the box is at the start and get a good early game. This is true and is a definite asset.
However, for the rest of the match? No. Nowhere near busted. You need constant map awareness, knowing the locations of every survivor and spawn point on a map, while getting ridiculously hard on larger maps such as Dwelling. If it's a smaller map such as Coal Tower, then the survivors don't have far to go to solve it.
But what if Ceno has perks to give info? Well, the best ones would probably be Lethal and BBQ. Lethal helps with the early game and then extends BBQ, which in of itself is a hook perks... meaning, you need to get a down. You need to get into a chase, hit a survivor twice, and then hook them. That's a big window for a survivor to solve the box during a chain hunt. If it's outside a chain hunt, then the survivor was outplayed.
All is fair.
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Why don't healing perks affect mend speeds?
Gideon offering + Filthy Blade + Coulrophobia + Distressing = Enjoy having your game held hostage.
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Unless the director is dead, then no.
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@enormous_bruh_moment said:
People complain about Boons. The problem is not Boons. It's never been Boons.
It's one specific Boon.
We all know which one it is.
If you hear a boon get made, you know exactly what it is and why it's so important for you to get rid of it.
We're basically stuck between two extremes. CoH on the strong end of boons, and Dark Theory on.... whatever that thing is.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216395#Comment_3216395
You want to butcher one of more used survivor perks even though the game is already stacked against survivors (61%). I say ok. Do it. But first fix the most burning issue survivors suffer from. Camp & tunnel
Butcher it? You are vastly underestimating how strong CoH is.
Furthermore, again, 60% is the GOAL for killrates by the devs. I can see why since there a lot survivors can do to immediately lose a game (giving up on first hook, solo queuing (base Kindred when?), or generally just bad luck and having someone die early.) ONE person not pulling their weight can kill everyone else. So yeah, kill rates should be between 2 and 3, typically on the lower side of 2, which 2.4 is.
Both these things were nerfed when base BT was added and buffed. If you want bring perks into the equation, then while DS was nerfed, we still have OtR to ensure the killer has to power through some sort of defense to tunnel, AND had Reassurance added to nerf camping .
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He launched like that actually.
Blight's pitch lock was removed because they want Blight to be able to manipulate his collision so that he can make those turns around corners. So looking down when approaching a corner before swinging, potentially even getting a 180? Perfectly fine and intended.
The problem is that with hug tech, you start a rush already colliding, and his collision system doesn't know what to do so it simply ignores it.
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@Gandor said:
100% agree. Right after you nerf to the ground camp+tunnel. But not before
Disagree all you want but... how do these relate?
If you're being tunneled, a boon won't help. If you're being camped a boon won't help, unless you mean your teammates healing to go for a save.
Furthermore, it's an absurd whataboutism. BS on one side doesn't excuse BS on the other.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/349180/killer-sided-game-perspective
61%. Killer was never asveasy as is now. If this is the case, then good riddance. Survivors are being nerfed consecutively every patch and 61% is the bare limit I am willing to play against
The devs have stated they wanted the kill and escape rate to be somewhere in the 60% and 40%. By this logic, dbd is extremely balanced.
Source: https://youtu.be/lHRAMxiGNxg
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You're 25% of 25% volume. You might as well be completely silent because even Stridor AND volume increasing add-ons, it won't have you go above 14%, which requires you to shove your headphones into your ear canal to pick up anything.
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Teleport add-ons are useless. Stacked, they, at most, save 3.2 seconds. I'm serious.
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1. We don't know if base UB will ever hit live. Entity knows Self-Care's rework and Old Legion's buff didn't.
2. No. Hook states and Completed gens are the two things that should never under any circumstances be touched.
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Lengthened chains - Terrible add-on. It has a consistent downside for a niche upside that's hard to get value out of anyway since the chain will snap before you get into lunge range.
Hellshire Iron - decent
Whiskey - Also terrible. They can just... look at you. Which they'll be doing anyway since his windup is very fast.
Barbed Wire - straight up useless. Only if the chain snaps and Slinger let's you go. But that's not the problem. Problem is, you need to mend. Those 30 seconds practically don't exist.
Tooth - the 9% and 5% shown to you is a lie for the reel add-ons. They give flat numbers (0.2m/s and 0.1m/s) regarding the reel speed increase. 15% would basically be both the current add-ons (0.3m/s) which is.. okay, I guess?
Badge - Still not good. 32m TR does that. Combined with Monitor, it sounds cool... but you're not patrolling gens moving at 93.5%
Poison Oak - Funny that it's still lower than Legion's 4 seconds. Especially since it's the only add-on that does it now.
Snake Oil - Meh. Fine, I guess. Could combine with the other for 0.4m/s reel speed increase. Kinda wanna see it now, tbh.
Rickety Chains - no one will miss this.
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I actually asked McLean this. Despite leaving BHVR, he had a hand at creating Nurse and he gave me permission to quote/clip him.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BreakableCharmingSmoothieMVGame-JcPXoLCSXDvC8Xtu -
Overcharge - .... why? As in, why Overcharge and not Call of Brine which does 200% regression immediately and is more popular because of it.
Eruption - i agree it needs changes but that's due to the Incapacitated effect. I'm not understanding this whole Overcharge combo devastation.
Save the best for last - I went through the effort to mathematically calculate its max valie compared to its old. Currently, it's 1.62 sec cooldown vs 1.8. This is the same as if the old cooldown had about 1 extra stack. That's it. The difference, while sounding scary, is honestly negligible.
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Neme has a 0.35 second windup. Has 1.5 seconds to windup.
Nemesis' infection exist to ensure his power doesn't become too oppressive, as when he's powered up, he's the best pallet shredder, doesn't lose distance holding his m2, and has a decent range.
Wesker's Infection was designed to be slowdown. There's a reason there's enough sprays for each survivor to disinfect themselves three times. Neme only gives them 1 vaccine each because it's sole function is to be a health state.
Also, if Neme hits you, he hits you. Wesker needs to hit you AND make you hit something.
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Legion's tr was only 24m because they launched as a 4.4m killer. They're the first and only killer to have gone from 4.4 to 4.6. Furthermore, Legion DOES have a 40m tr in Frenzy.
You've also given no elaboration as to why these killers deserve these terror radii.
@Yogerman1997 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206276#Comment_3206276
the old one had 24 out of frenzy, and 40 while in frenzy
also i said:
Legion's TR was 24m and 32m in Frenzy when they launched. Frenzy adds a static +8m
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1. It needs to be applied via a grab first. That means, he outplayed you at some point.
2. If it paused during chase, he could just moonwalk you Old Legion style. Don't believe me? Ask Condemned Sadako mains; they happily moonwalk you if you're carrying a tape.
3. Assuming that you just got grabbed, it takes 100 seconds for infection to hit max. If you were just unhooked, then it takes 62.5 seconds. ACTUAL Bloodlust would be a factor before the infection is.
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Basekit changes
Now you're just going to have Nurses run aura reading all the time, so you're still SoL. But that's a subject for another time.
Add-ons
Recharge add-ons
This feels... lazy. Not trying to be mean, but Cinture on its own barely does anything as is. When you're halving both of them, you might as well keep one the same and rework the other entirely.
Range
Same thing, honestly. Heavy Pant is strong, but not broken. The Purple or (dear lord) both are stupid. Even if you disagree, you might as well rework the add-ons entirely if you're going to take this approach.
3 blinks
100% is... yeah, no. Nurse's recharge add-ons don't calculate like most do, instead of adding/subtracting from the recovery rate, they add/subtract a flat number. So, 50% is actually 1.5 seconds to a total of 4.5 and 100% would be a total of 6. 6 seconds per blink is just absurd. She needs access to at least a single blink at a reasonable time because that's how she gets around.
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It starts at 50 charges and builds at a rate of 0.8c/s
From 0, it takes 125 seconds to go to max. From 50, it's obviously half that, so 62.5 seconds. He needs to commit to tunneling pretty heavily.
However, it's worth noting that if he hits you with his m2 while you have endurance, it adds 20 charges. So 70 to 100 takes 37.5 seconds, which is much scarier.
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Sadako has a directional 24m lullaby that counters her own stealth, 100 sec cooldown on her teleport, said teleport is the only means she has of applying condemned to act as slowdown with it needing to be used 7 times to do anything and can be quickly removed, barely giving value, AND has less chase potential than Legion who at least chases you while you're injured since the first hit is free.
Dredge has anti-loop; a weak form but good enough to get through filler tiles and can be used in some crafty ways. Its mobility is, comparatively, very slow and can be slowed more, but can never be outright stopped and has a much more lenient 12 second cooldown after 3 possible teleports. When Nightfall happens, its mobility becomes very oppressive, its cooldowns are almost nonexistent, it gets stealth, and even some Detection in the form of KI and the white outlines.
While Dredge has it has a lot more things going for it than Sadako who just has... nothing. She's held back by the many restrictions on her kit that just stops it from working.
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@randonly said:
Honestly she's been dead to me since the nerf in her entire kitbase just because of an addon....
Even when I'm playing survivor against her, 2 boxes are enough to remove the RBT most of the time with this universal system of "12 attempts" fixed for the 4 survivors distributed among the 5 boxes, completely removing the lethality of the RBT's and the design of live or die, even more with the reworks in the maps making everything small, as in the RPD.
Anyway, it would even be welcome to reduce the TR, but they need to undo that last nerf, come back with 4 boxes and set the key in one of them, leaving this universal system of "12 attempts between 5 boxes" only for when using the videotape addon.
ps:a rework on amanda's secret addon would be very good too, it's very bad and it's still rare and an addom that makes ambush attack destroy pallets would be very good too.
It's... not a nerf. Here rng just became a lot more reliable. Sure, you won't get games where everyone loses it on their last search, but neither will everyone get it on their first search like before.
Getting the box off in 2 searches isn't bad. That's 24 seconds + travel time you just wasted without any additional input after getting a down besides a short animation. Do that to all four (which is physically impossible since that would leave 4/12 of the searches unused), that's at minimum 96 seconds. You made them do an entire additional gen, something other killers can only dream of.
RBTs shouldn't result in headpops regularly. They're slowdown; they should only kill survivors that are careless, which should be rare.
Pig is bad, but that's due to subpar stealth and an underwhelming chase power. Make her better in those aspects; her slowdown is perfectly adequate.
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28m. She never had a 24m tr.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190623#Comment_3190623
Botany is 50% bonus healing speed, which is nothing to scoff at. You can use it with Self-Care, or you can use it with a medkit and Streetwise. Or heal your teammates for a change.
Or... I could bring CoH and have everyone heal themselves. Or a medkit with add-ons?
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Self Care is apparently very popular outside of EU/America. Surprised myself, honestly.
As for Botany... who would use that? CoH and medkits exist. The thing is outclassed. Even Desperate Measures would be better given that it lacks a downside.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3188241#Comment_3188241
I am quite aware and it was an example number. That wasn't the point of my comment. My point was that no matter how long a gen takes, a gen taking longer because the killer is actively interacting with you and the generator is more fun than you just having to do the generator longer without anything interesting happening for you.
I'm aware that wasn't your main point. I just saw it too often that it's becoming a pet peeve of mine.
As for your main point, I can see where you're coming from, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree in that regard.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3188198#Comment_3188198
I personally don't see them being the same thing. A plague or legion injuring everyone is the point of their power. A survivor that barely sees the killer now has to do gens and hold m1 for longer; while a killer that is actively walking around, taking into account gen progress, and kicking them is far more interactive because it is a back and forth interaction. Survivor runs away, survivor stops the regression, killer kicks and guards, etc. It is an actual fight.
Sure, the survivor might spend the overall time holding m1, but it might not feel that way. A gen just taking longer while nothing else is going on is boring, no one likes just holding m1 for 120 seconds. However if you are doing a gen at normal speed and you actually get to interact with the killer, it is atleast a more interesting generator.
Thana isn't very interactive because the only killers that get value off of it are killers that entire purpose are keeping you injured very easily, not necessarily letting survivors avoid it. Current thana is a different issue and it is just awful.
I see 120 seconds being brought up all the time.
Thana was never that high. At its peak, Thana was 115. The only perk that has it in the 120s is Pentimento. And if the killer brings both... i mean, the survivors should know where Penti is.
16% with 90 would be an additional 17 seconds (so 107), just to be clear.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3187446#Comment_3187446
I am way more of a fan for interactive regression and slowdown based on kicking or getting downs. It rewards the killer for playing good by dropping chases and pressuring while not making the game too boring for survivor because gens aren't technically ever taking longer if the killer isn't playing the best
I'm somewhat confused.
To me, regressing a gen and directing slowing it are effectively the same thing. The survs need to hold M1 longer.
I'd argue Thana is very interactive because it encourages the killer to go out and spread out injuries, meaning they go out and chase multiple survivors, with the chase being the fun part of the game.
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I think Thana could apply to more things, such as Blessing, Exit Gates, unlocking chests, etc. But I don't think it'd be right for it to affect healing when the counter is healing.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3187119#Comment_3187119
I'm not sure what this is in response to.
Oh, it's just that you wanted to give reasons. I wanted to follow it up with explanations by one of the people that had a hand at Nurse.
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@SuzuKR said:
Source of evidence?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186915#Comment_3186915
Blight attacks with his power itself during the power. Nurse's power is exclusively movement and she comes to a stop before she attacks with zero carried momentum from the blink, even if you queue the attack to happen on the first possible frame.
This is the reason that Demogorgon's Shred is M2 (because it attacks with the power) while Spirit's out-of-phase attack is M1, because her power is exclusively movement and the attack comes immediately after the power ends.
I asked McLean, a former dev that had a hand at creating Nurse, myself and I was given 3 reasons.
1. Nurse functionally has no basic attack since she's slower than survivors.
2. Her attacks were deliberately designed to emulate a basic attack as closely as possible. All that there are very, very minor differences (such as the reduced range).
3. It opens up a can of worms of what is/isn't a basic attack again. Oh, Nurse's doesn't count? Why should Slinger's whose attack even deep wounds you? How about Hag who teleports? Should it be determined by a balance perspective or by the attacks' properties?
Source: https://clips.twitch.tv/BreakableCharmingSmoothieMVGame-JcPXoLCSXDvC8Xtu
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To me, higher FOV is accessibility first and foremost. People can and will continue to get sick because the killer FoV is so bad. Their only option is to sacrifice a perk slot, essentially punishing them for something outside their control.
Does it provide an advantage? Yes, but any advantage it gives is perfectly justifiable if it lets people play the game without getting sick.
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Bit of history, my dear @GannTM
I like Spirit. I do. I like playing her. In fact, I used to play her a lot before her nerf.
Did I stop because of her nerf? No. That's not the reason. In fact, that change was everything I was asking for... well, almost everything glares at MDR
No. Spirit is the single killer I've gotten the most hate mail against. More than Twins and Nurse combined. Game after game, I was called various slurs and ridiculed. I've struggled with many personal issues such as social anxiety and depression, and the messages just... hurt.
Sure, I turned off my messages but the damage is done. I just... can't enjoy Spirit like I used to. I play her occasionally but I guess the experience is just ruined for me. Ironically, this has caused me to play a lot meaner in games because I just do not care anymore.
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@GoshJosh said:
Sorry, but until Plague and Legion are reworked, it’s not a perk that should too heavily reward killers for injuring survivors. These killers take the healthy state quickly, with barely any input or counter at all.
If they ever get reworked, Thana can be revisited.
Legion can't injure a team effectively if they spread out. Ignoring that, the "never heal" rule is a fallacy. Just be very selective about the times you heal. Ignoring even THAT, so what? He's still Legion. He can have all the time in the world, but he's still an M1 killer.
Plague is... just cleanse. Literally, do that. If she's infected the entire team, cleanse. Yeah, she gets a Corrupt fountain. It's strong, but she's not Oni. Far as I see it, it's a hell of your own making if you choose to remain injured, especially if she has Thana, meaning she's COUNTING on it.
I don't think we're ever going to convince each other, but I had to make my disagreements known.
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I'll explain some reasons
1) Other killers are faster than survs. Nurse is not. She's entirely reliant on her blinks to land hits. Without them, she functionally has no basic attack. A huntress can choose to melee hatchet or M1. Nurse needs to blink.
2) Her attacks are deliberately designed to emulate a basic attack as closely as possible. If anything, her attacks are WEAKER than a basic attack due to being slower, thus having a shorter range.
3) She's a very old killer, predating the basic-special attack distinction. Changing it now causes "issues" from what I've been told. An example is the many inconsistencies it would cause. For one, Nurse grabs like every other killer after a blink (this also being tied to an achievement), and is thus subject to the M1-grab cancel. Changing it and now we have an exception in the form of a cancel now being an M2, which is something you don't want. That's not to mention any odd perk interactions that are bound to occur.
4) It reopens an old can of worms. "What is/isn't a basic attack?" Nurse's attack is more or less the exact same as a basic attack. If you change her, what about Slinger who flat-out Deep Wounds you? What about Myers who has an extended lunge duration? Hag who teleports? There are a lot of questions it would raise.
5) What does it solve? Really? Okay, no more exposed Nurse... so? Nurse's issue run down to the nature of her power. You could make her attacks Special, delete Range, AND blind her to Auras, and she would STILL be the best killer in the game. It solves nothing.
6) What are you expecting her to run? Okay, no more M1 perks. She can't use Chase perks. That leaves Aura-reading and slowdown. Aura reading on Nurse is more or less a guaranteed hit, so you're effectively a one-shot anyway. Blind her to Auras? Now she's just stacking slowdown. Nurse is miserable because of the lack of choices, and survs are miserable because slowdown is annoying. Damned if you, damned if you don't.
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@BradQuackson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3176498#Comment_3176498
Sorry, should of clarified I only play the top #########, however, I don't know why people who play Nurse/Blight/Spirit/Artist are running slowdown.
Because... they're still very good?
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How do you pressure a team?
Spread injuries? Nope, medkits and CoH exist and are very common.
Slug? Not every killer is good at snowballing. Even still, UB and WGLF exist.
Tunnel? OtR exist.
Strategic Camping? Reassurance
Use Discordance and Info? You're assuming every killer has mobility.
It's not a coincidence that the top killers are...
Nurse, the killer with the best chase potential in the entire game.
Blight, the most mobile killer in the game and insane chase potential.
Spirit, another chasing monster that (especially with add-ons) has decent mobility.
Artist, a killer capable of pressuring across the map, especially with the right perks, alongside a deadly chasing power.
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Trapper - I need some sort of setting speed.
Myers - basekit Myers is painful. Literally anything.
Dredge - Haddie's Calendar feels like a must bring.
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Mathematically, 7 stacks is almost identical to the former 8 stacks (1.8 vs 1.75)
The current 8 is 1.62, a 0.18 sec difference.
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Why can the killer see the hooked survivor's body glow white? See their struggle meter pause?I asked this, actually.
The logic is this. What would you like to encourage? Give a reason for the killer to leave the hook, or potentially trick them into wasting time camping (unless they're smart and look at the timer)?
Ultimately, they went with the former option. It warns the killer, telling them to go somewhere else to encourage more interactive gameplay, which is much healthier, I feel.
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@RonMan32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164047#Comment_3164047
Wait really? 40cm was it was in the PTB is the basic attack hitbox? Hm well maybe it should be 35.
It wasn't 40. It was 45cm.
I think 30cm would be a better in between.
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Actual answer
Nurse's hitbox almost entirely emulates that of a basic attack. Basic attacks are the norm everyone is used to.
Wesker's attack hitbox was shortened by over 50%, no longer even encompassing his entire model. This an extreme, as the original hitbox was a bit too generous and they went overkill.