GrimReaperJr1232
GrimReaperJr1232
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@neb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161617#Comment_3161617
I don't get the correlation to nurse, making it special attacks as well would not make it less strong on nurse. That's a nurse problem, they have to rework/nerf her.
I'm saying, Nurse is inarguably stronger than Huntress and can utilize the perk. Even then, the perk itself is not OP, so I fail to see how it'd be a problem.
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@NuKeD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161734#Comment_3161734
"he doesn't give a speed buff to survivor he hits" he does, after the animation ends, survivors get the boost
"he vaults pallets" and? he has a cooldown and goes slower... useless in a loop"
are we playing the same game? do you realize how long his cooldowns are?
Wesker has a 1.5 second cooldown, during which he moves at 74.75% ~ 92% before quickly ramping back to 115%.
That's... honestly not bad. It's surprisingly useful when used correctly.
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@ays12151 said:
Cannibal should be a very simple Killer in general, but when we want talk about his movement speed during a Chainsaw Sweep we can notice a problem.
I think, Bubba's movement speed in base kit is bugged and it's not working correct.
Revving movement speed 0 - 0.3 seconds = 109.25%
Revving movement speed 0.3 - 1 second (or more) = 86.25%
It's very simple and it working correct I think.
But, now, when he starts a Chainsaw Sweep we can notice a problem.
Bubba should starts at 86.25% or 115% movement speed? And when he should reach maximum Chainsaw Sweep movement speed?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5LJ5C5UFIIH6/image.png
Informations from Dead By Daylight Wiki.
It says that Cannibal should reach 5.29 m/s (aka 132.25%) at 0.6 seconds Chainsaw Sweep.
Bubba since TWINS DLC is very bugged and BHVR can not fix him.
I mean his movement speed during a Chainsaw Sweep. I remember Bubba before Twins DLC and for me (as a Bubba Main) Bubba was faster and just better than his "bugged" version after Twins DLC.
Now, you can feel a massive slowdown with addons like:
∙ Award Winning Chili & Chili - with these addons, first charge is very very slow.
Playing this combo together is garbage. Okay, you can get a very long distance, but for what?
Survivor will reach a loop, because you are very slow.
∙ Carburetor Tunning Guide
This addon is horrible, because this addon is bugged, and I think that this addon is bugged, because Bubba's movement speed during a Chainsaw Sweep in base kit is bugged.
With this addon your movement speed is decreased tremendously - you are slower than Survivor.
Fun fact about Carburetor Tunning Guide. If you use Chainsaw when you have just 1 Chainsaw Charge, your movement speed during a Chainsaw Sweep is normal. But, with 2 or 3 Charges movement speed is garbage.
I uploaded video, to proof that Carburetor Tunning Guide is bugged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLRCw0L6yBw
Carburetor Tunning Guide & Depth Gauge Rake should have the same movement speed penalty.
But on video, clearly we can see a difference and movement speed with Carburetor Tunning Guide is horrible.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/A5DOHZGM02ZM/image.png
I don't know that Informations from Wiki are true, but BHVR should post these things on specific killers (about movement speed etc etc.).
As a Bubba Main I have a lot of experience, and in my opinion before TWINS DLC, Bubba was working correct (he was reaching maximum movement speed very fast and his addons were working correctly as well).
What you think? Write your opinion.
BHVR, please fix this killer (or at least his addons).
Wow. It got acknowledged. Are we finally getting somewhere?
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@neb said:
huntress with surge would be hell
More so than Nurse...?
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To be completely fair, there is/was a nurse challenge. Shocked Legion is that high though...
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Because at endgame, the dynamic changes.
Normally, the killer should leave the hook to patrol gens, giving the survivors a chance to unhook while the killer pressures the map.
In endgame, this is gone. The killer's sole objective is securing the last kill(s), as defending exit gates is flat out impossible with how quickly they're opened and that they don't regress. As such, the only thing left to do is to defend the hook and get someone out of the game.
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"We have a mediocre perk that has an aspect problematic on one killer. "
What's easier? Rework a killer with a dedicated fanbase of 6 years, or slightly nerfing a perk no one will use? This is no different than when Thana was nerfed because of Plague/Legion.
Nurse may be changed. She'll never get a full blown rework like Freddy did, nor should any killer.
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Iirc, Artist was a 4.4 killer at one point. Can't be too sure cuz there was also a fake leak that put her as 4.4.
Anyhow, Artist has to hit you twice through walls, adding more complexity to get value out of her power.
Hag is a territorial killer that can straight up teleport and has 10 traps. A good Hag is pretty much unstoppable if she sets up; make her 4.6, and I shudder at the mental images.
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Her add-ons are very subtle but they're more useful than they seem.
Thick Tar and Festering Carrion are deceptively useful. Often, you'll be prepared to hit a survivor that's swarmed, only for them to get rid of the birds at the last possible moment. These add-ons help with that.
Her purples are mostly all good. I'm not a fan of the one that gives her a 4th bird, personally.
There's a green that gives Sloppy that's always good, especially when survivors commonly heal under the hook.
The bell has some surprising uses, making survivors Oblivious as long as they're swarmed. It's also pretty fun with Severed Hands. If not that, the Exhaustion addon is nifty, especially since it kills the use of Dead Hard if they're swarmed.
Stay away from the Charcoal Stick and her Iris, imho.
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Manifesting took 1.5 seconds, not 2. Furthermore, I feel this makes her tread a bit too much into Wraith's territory.
I think being able to insert a tape mid chase, considering how powerful KILLING a survivor is, is fine. What I hated was being able to do it immediately after getting hit, which being exposed resolves.
I feel these changes were solely focused on her condemned which, while appreciated, ignores other aspects of her power that should be tweaked. Namely, you eat a 100 sec cooldown on a tv after teleporting, but only 60 if a survivor disables it, meaning survivors are encouraged to NEVER interact with TVs unless their condemned gets high, rather than actually wanting to impede her ability to teleport.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151912#Comment_3151912
Pentimento would need a complete rework
Not really? I mean, literally EVERYONE would know where the totem was because it's aura would be shown.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151912#Comment_3151912
The issue with boons are that most of them are garbage and one of them is super overrated after its many nerfs.
I love ya, man, but I'm going to have to disagree that it's overrated because of its nerfs.
In terms of efficiency, it's still 50% faster than having a teammate heal you outside the boon. It's basically Original Self Care that was 80% speed, which was broken af because it makes survivors far too self sufficient. Being able to constantly reset yourself is extremely powerful and makes spreading pressure through injures pretty much impossible.
Furthermore, this perk STACKS with medkits, items under a lot of scrutiny as of late for being ridiculously overpowered since they (in terms of efficiency) save you at least 8 seconds, compared to a Commodius Toolbox that saves 10.7, and can have several charge add-ons so it's limited use becomes a non issue.
This perk is reviled for a reason. It more or less necessitates committing to chases, lest the entire act of injuring a survivor end up being a complete waste of the killer's time.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150828#Comment_3150828
Sure but she's not the only killer this applies to. Are we also going to blind Huntress to auras while she's winding up a hatchet? That also results in "free" hits if the player has decent aim. I played a bunch of Huntress last night and got hit after hit with Lethal Pursuer and Floods of Rage. What's the consistent standard we're applying?
Further, if you limit utility of aura perks on her then people are just going to swap in slowdown perks, which I would argue are less fun for everyone in the match.
FWIW I'm totally fine with her blinks being special attacks. Definitely chain blinks, and maybe also the first blink. I was honestly a bit surprised when I was learning her and discovered that they're basic attacks.
Honestly, Nurse really isn't the problem. It has always been matchmaking putting good nurses with survivors who don't know how to counter her, as well as bad map design (Midwich). Per-killer MMR should practically guarantee that good nurses only go against very strong survivors, but all of the goofy stuff they do with matchmaking to prioritize speed over accuracy causes these blowouts.
The fix for Nurse should be that MMR strictly prefers accuracy over speed when someone queues as Nurse, and the soft MMR cap should be raised or removed for her only.
Why just Huntress? PH can hit through walls too. Artist can crossmap you, also through walls.
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Pretty much. Couldn't say it better myself.
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I wouldn't.
Dark Theory gives one of the most powerful effects in the game in the form of increasing your movement speed, but it's a boon which inherently lacks any effective counterplay which is supposedly justified by its effect being very mild.
If you were to up the numbers, it would just break certain maps, creating another CoH situation.
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Okay, this is just ridiculous.
They bought the game. If they enjoy the killer, they have a right to play them. Hate the killer all you want, don't shame the player.
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- While charging a Blink, activating a Blink or performing a post-Blink attack, The Nurse can no longer see Scratch Marks, Pools of Blood or the Auras of Survivors. - Overkill. Aura, maybe. Bloods and Scratch Marks? That feels overkill, especially with indoor maps being a thing that already cripples her.
- After initiating a Blink, any post-Blink attack is now considered a Special Attack. - Typical.
- Blink cooldown now starts after the post-Blink fatigue state. - Nah, I don't like this. After a hit, survivors make 17.6m of distance after Nurse recovers from fatigue and used 2 blinks. During recharge, she has to chase despite LOSING distance. So, after two blinks, you won't be able to start catching up until they're 18.5m away, almost 20m away. On paper, this might sound fine, but then there's the fact that you can trick a Nurse into losing more distance with LoS breakers and double backing, especially when you're nearing the max distance of her max blink. So, really, it'll just make Recharge or Range feel like a requirement.
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I mean... there's literally a Nurse challenge.
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@LittleBigSunset said:
Obviously with a view this defeatist you're never going to think that Nurse can be changed in a way that keeps her viable in high MMR play while being healthy for the game.
I'd say a rework could very much be possible. Freddy got a completely new power. Clown had a new mechanic added to his. Doc's was made to be easier to use and more efficient. Adjusting Nurse so her power doesn't limit design space isn't the most difficult thing to concieve.
Firstly making her blinks special attacks would allow the devs to design more perks that grant Exposed status without fearing they will make Nurse too powerful. Starstruck is such an example here, any Nurse with it can dominate the match and create a snowball slugging effect quickly while on other killers it is nowhere near as effective (although still decent). If her blinks were special attacks then Nurses get no value from Starstruck and this would make it a dead perk on her but she already has plenty. Or if we were to make a compromise only the first blink counts as a normal hit and the chain blinks count as special. That would keep it viable but not blindly overpowered (but would have to see this in practice).
Secondly I think Awakened Awareness on Nurse on it's own is fine. Aura perks on Nurse are strong because of her quickly she can traverse the map to reach those auras before the survivors have the chance to hide or make distance. But this in of itself isn't overpowered. It's only in combination with insta-down perks that they become much more lethal. And there are counters to AA too. Distortion is a very viable counterperk to aura builds and not one that you as a survivor feel punished for running like some of the other non-meta perks. And once you know the Nurse has AA you know to keep out of her way when she has someone on her shoulder. Simple as that.
I may be underestimating the work that's needed here to 'fix' Nurse but special attack blinks would be a simple and more than welcomed first step that the Nurse community wouldn't feel is unjust or unfair. Nurse is still the best killer in the game bar none without access to insta-down abilities. It may not resolve the core issue of her gameplay concerning game balance and design space but it would be a start and a step in the right direction. Being defeatist and telling people to just accept such a glaring issue that will only get worse overtime and dismissing potential changes isn't the right thing to do here. If you enjoy DBD and are passionate about seeing the game grow and develop further you should advocate change not shoot it down as 'extremely taxing on resources'. Unless you are on the development team yourself I don't know how you would know that.
Okay, so let me explain what I meant.
First off, no, they're not doing a Freddy-level rework. A Freddy rework is creating an entirely new killer, which not only alienates the current killer's fanbase, it's extremely difficult when also trying to squeeze in the other actual new killers. When asked, I was never given a "never" answer, but it is unlikely.
Clown and Doc's powers remained mostly the same. Clown just gained a new bottle type, and Doc's rework was mostly just a lot of simplifying a very complex power.
A better comparison would be Legion. Besides Freddy, Legion has probably changed the most out of any killer considering Legion now and Release Legion are functionally different killers despite the power still being a simple "run fast and stab people" loop. But, fixing Legion to be fair meant making their power mostly non-lethal, and their 2nd rework was more polishing after their 1st one. There was a clear route you could go with Legion and make them better.
Nurse is... ######### do you do? Her power literally lets her go through walls. If her attacks are special, cool. Now there's no more exposed Nurse. But uh... she's still bottlenecking aura perks, which Awakened Awareness is, which means the problem still exists. Aura perks are more or less free hits as Nurse. So honestly, I don't feel that Special Attacks alone would solve much.
Not to mention, when I've asked about it, I get told how it'd be re-opening an old can of worms of "what's a basic and what's a special" attack argument since Nurse's lunge is almost completely identical to a basic attack, then there are OTHER killers such as T3 Myers with an extended lunge or Slinger's whose reel into M1 deep wounds you despite being basic. Then there's the nuance of her being able to grab people identical to an M1 grab (which cannot be removed as it's tied to achievements) and thus being subject to the Grab-M1 cancel.
Am I a defeatist? Yeah, probably. But honestly, I do not see a solution that makes anyone happy.
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It was nerfed because coordinated teams were using it to grief other survivors, infinitely keeping them on the hook to ruin their game.
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And do what?
Delete a killer that's existed for 6 years? Nope.
Rework her entirely? Unlikely, she's existed for 6 years and has a dedicated fanbase. People are still livid over Freddy's original rework.
Make her attacks special? Nope, won't stop synergy with aura reading.
Blind her? That's never been done. Besides, what IS she supposed to run then? 4 slowdowns alongside an oppressive chase power? You might as well not done anything.
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@syain said:
Just before someone comments about it: I'm not talking about every Nurse and Blight hit as a lot of them do look right.
'Pokos', as the comp nerds like to say: A hit that just doesn't look right but lands anyway.
Nurse is the definition of that. Doesn't matter if you and the Nurse are in the same state with the same ping, they can hit you at the very end of her swing, when you're far enough away that any other killer's swing wouldn't hit, and it does. Like a short range Huntress hatchet BS hit. Not to mention the times when the Nurse blinks close to you and literally just swings while spinning the camera around because the odds of it landing are quite high.
Blight literally has a cone in front of him that allows him to land hits whilst looking like 45º away. Nothing much to say, it just doesn't feel right.
These killers are strong enough as it is. I think the minimum they should require from them is precision in order to actually hit.
I asked McLean myself. Nurse's lunge is almost completely identical to a basic attack, including the hitbox.
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Seriously, if this bug gets fixed, you need to be heralded as a saint for Bubba players.
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Was attempted ages ago in a ptb. It was abused, and it was scrapped.
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Err... no? Again, you need to CLEANSE a totem to activate it. Solo queue or not, one of you 4 should know where it is, if the killer gets to use it at all.
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I'll just paste my previous response to this question...
"Hey, BHVR! You know that killer that has been around for 6 years? The same one with a dedicated fanbase that has been playing her for years? Yeah, delete her from existence.
I'm all for rebalancing Nurse, but keep in mind, that you need to consider Nurse players too. Yes, there are a fair amount of sweat lords but most people just wanna play their favorite killer."
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Deep Wound is kinda essential to Legion's kit.
For one, most of his add-ons revolve around mending in one way or another. The devs would have to go and change them all AGAIN.
Two, mending is there for slowdown so that Legion can go chain hits. Without it, a survivor would just immediately go on a gen after getting stabbed, meaning trying to chain hits which is the entire point of your power has the potential to straight up backfire because you never commit to chases, double if they also have something like Resilience.
Three, you would have to rework Legion's entire 5-hit/chain system. If you hit someone currently, you cannot double hit them unless it's your 5th hit because your chain ends if you hit someone with Deep Wound. If you remove it, you can just spam hitting one survivor until they die.
Make it so hitting injured survs ends Frenzy? You will literally not have a power. It also needlessly complicates getting the 5th hit, something that is already extremely difficult to do.
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Legion - not enough perks really compliment his ability to injure survivors. Thana got nuked, Blood Echo needs a buff, and Stridor is only really worth using on Spirit.
Blight - consistently inconsistent collisions.
Spirit - this isn't Spirit herself, but way back when I used to play her a lot more often. The sheer amount of hate and vitriol I'd get more or less ruined her for me, despite still enjoying Spirit herself. Speaking of which....
@GannTM said:
Spirit: Mother-Daughter Ring and Dried Cherry Blossom shouldn’t be a thing.
Agreed. I lost my Father's Glasses but MDR is okay? Why?!
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@_kostas_pap_207 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126369#Comment_3126369
But survivors need some time to cleanse them but the killer snuffs a totem instantly
I hear this too often. Let me explain.
Killer time us with 4 times as much survivor time. When someone is blessing, 3 others can be doing gens or looping the killer.
If the killer drops whatever they're doing, takes 3 seconds to go to the boon, do the 1.5 sec snuff animation, and takes another 3 to get back on their patrol route, then that's collectively 30 seconds worth of survivor time refunded. Subtract the 14 blessing seconds, and you GAINED 16 seconds. Without any healing whatsoever (because who uses boons without CoH).
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I go back and forth on this.
On one hand, most boons are pretty underwhelming. Dark Theory is pretty much useless, making you a pathetic 0.08m faster. Exponential is extremely powerful... but also so situational that it's seldom used. Shadowstep is a good perk, but doesn't hide blood or grunts, so it's still pretty fair.
On the other hand, let's be real. CoH is the only boon used. If you're using another boon, you're using it with CoH. If you're using a boon without CoH, you're doing it to troll your team. The ability to infinitely self reset is straight up unfair, breaks the backs of over half the killer roaster, deletes practically every injury-based perk, and even Anti-Healing perks barely do anything to it. It's universally useful, easy to use, has little counter, helps the entire team even when used selfishly, and STACKS with medkits. The perk single handedly makes healing a complete joke. Botany nukes medkits, DM needs stacks, Inner Strength heals 1 person ONCE and eats a totem, No One Left Behind requires all gens to pop; compare all this to CoH that just requires you to sit at a totem (that are easy to find) for a few seconds, and boom, everyone has Release-Day Self-Care.
Either balance around CoH, or nuke CoH. This perk can't just be left as is.
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@uniqid said:
@GrimReaperJr1232 I agree with some of your points but I have a question. Why do you think tunneling (during normal gameplay and not end game) should be an option? It forces players out of the game without giving them a chance to do anything. It's like as a Killer I have the power to make someone lose rank / MMR for example. It's only allowed today or considered normal because it was never addressed and has been an issue for a very long time.
The devs straight up said that things such as camping/tunneling, while not very fun, are also necessary evils for the game to function.
If you're on hook, there needs to be agency for your teammates to save you. Otherwise, if the timer gets low, the killer will secure the next stage.
If you're unhooked, you still need to be in some sort of danger. I agree with them having defenses to discourage, but not make entirely impossible.
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Camping
This has been attempted once. There were too many holes/ issues with the mechanic to keep. For example, we have maps such as Gideon that are stacked on top of each other, keeping you technically within 10m and pausing the timer despite not camping.
Basekit BT
I'm all for extending the duration but 10 seconds feels a bit much. I would settle for something more like 8.
Basekit DS
No. Look, tunneling should be discouraged but should be, well, an option. Besides, here are the things you can do with DS active: Solve Ceno's box, disarm Bear Traps, Bodyblock injured teammates, flashy save, disarm Hag traps, lock Dredge's lockers, lightburn Wraith, kick Victor, and uncage someone.
Slugging
What's with the double whammy? Ability to get up AND Endurance? That's way overkill. There are times you physically have to slug, such as a sabo play or hook deadzones or you're being swarmed by beamers.
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I'll be honest, I don't think Oppression should have a cooldown at all. It's not like Overcharge or CoB have one. It only does base regression and doesn't apply perks, and it's not like it can be spammed since you'll then need to find ANOTHER non regressing gen.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125423#Comment_3125423
Look up or down to manipulate collision....Remind me how you hug tech again ?
Okay.
You collide into an object, "hugging" it so that when a rush initiates, you're already colliding so the system with ignore it. Because it detect collision in front of you to prevent a rush, you look down to trick the system into thinking nothing is in front of you.
You're not manipulating your collision. You're just breaking the system.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3124303#Comment_3124303
McClean is no longer with BHVR. McClean also didnt consider hug tech a bug...Yet BHVR does...So.
Uh... he did call Hug Tech a bug. What he said ISN'T a bug is a Blight being able to look up/down to manipulate his collision, but hug tech fools the system by having you start a rush already colliding with an obstacle.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3124067#Comment_3124067
The simplest solution is sometimes the best? Could you explain whats wrong?
This is gonna get a little technical.
There are actually 3 types of attacks in dbd (possibly an over simplification but these 3 are the only relevant): Basic, Sub-Basic, and Special.
Special attacks are 100% unique. Blight's, for example, is completely tailored made for him and him only. It's one of a kind for that specific killer.
Sub Basic attacks are "special" basic attacks, or rather, basic attacks given additional properties. Legion's Frenzy and Pig's ambush, for example, are both sub basic attacks. Notably, this does NOT include things such as an uncloaked Wraith Lunge, as that attack is purely basic, but extended due to increased movement speed due to how lunge speed is calculated using your base speed at the time of the attack.
When attacks such as Sub Basic attacks are made, the line gets a bit... blurry. Legion and Pig's used to be considered an M1 for perks, but that obviously changed. If all Sub Basic attacks were now special, then Slinger's reel into M1 would need to be changed.
In the middle of this, we also have Nurse. Her attack is, presumably, sub basic as it almost completely emulates a basic attack minus very small differences that most probably don't even know about. She's on a very blurry line that could have repercussions for others on that same line.
That's not getting into the exceptions/Inconsistencies that'd make Nurse, such as her M2 still doing a typical M1 Grab, her Grab-Attack cancel being an M2 instead of an M1 like every other killer....
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3123478#Comment_3123478
Idk I feel her blinks should still count as a special attacks instead of of a basic one
There's.... it's a lot more complicated than it sounds on a technical level. I'm willing to explain, but trust me when I say, the solution is so simple that it's been considered.
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Just for the record...
STBFL at max stacks is 1.62 second cooldown.
STBFL before at max was 1.8 seconds.
At 7 (current), it's 1.75 seconds.
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There are a few issues I have.
Legion, by design, is a killer meant to chain hits onto multiple survivors in rapid succession. The Deep Wound he inflicts is because he needs to leave the survivor to go hit another.
"But Legion is mostly unchanged and this lets him get the fifth hit easier!"
This has far more implications than you may realize. Legion can now get the fifth hit off 2 survivors and makes Pills + Mural Sketch even MORE powerful when it's already arguably his strongest add-on combo. This is a load BS. The 5th hit is deliberately made difficult to accomplish because Frenzy has effectively no counterplay besides hoping Legion screws up.
Also, this doesn't really change anything. Legion will just double hit you, so he's still annoying.
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@Carnivorone said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3116753#Comment_3116753
This is not an intelligent response at all, it's as if you can't read or something.
3 includes information about the boringness of gens, but it isn't just 'a different way of saying' that they are boring.
1 states that the developers should not amplify the most boring part of the game
2 outlines what makes the gens boring.
As for 4, I'm obviously not saying the developers don't know. I'm saying WE don't know. I don't have access to the killer survivor win/loss data, and I would like if you could show it to me to prove why I should be doing this boring work in the game
Exactly. The reasons are just saying gens are boring, in essence. Even if you breakdown why detail by detail, they're still just saying gens are boring.
Would I like to see the data? Sure. Are we entitled to the data? No. Are they under any obligation to show it to use before making these decisions? No.
They don't owe us anything.
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This is not 5 reasons. Reason 1-4 are just different ways of saying gens are boring.
As for 4, I... I'm sorry, are you telling the developers, the people that have access to all the statistics, that there is no data that proves the kill rates were low? Especially when we don't even know their targeted goal?
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I hate them.
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@Grum said:
I mean it's a killer that looks like random pieces of meat floating around in a black cloud. I feel like the spirit world is involved somehow.
Wraith and Nurse interact with the Spirit World.
Spirit interacts with the Ethereal Plane.
Onryo interacts with the Otherworld.
Freddy gets the Dream World.
Dredge gets.... nothing named, actually. Huh...
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@Dead_Harder said:
This perk is ripe for abuse and im surprised its not talked about more.
Conspicuous action doesnt matter when more than 1 people have the same idea and are doing this so for swfs that just want to take hits for each other and fool around, this perk is a godsend.
But probably more worryingly this perk is legitimately scary when paired with Object of Obsession. You can broadcast with pinpoint accuracy all of the killers actions so the killer is either forced to have to deal with survivors that book it to the other side of the map before the killer even sees them or has to chase a survivor that has an additional health state, can see the killer coming and will play it super safe just to waste as much time as possible.
Yeah i mean, worst perk in the rooster mate.
Here's the difference between this and Old Object.
You could use Old Object and still... do everything. You were a useful teammate capable of progressing the game.
This scenario has them completely down a teammate since the MoM user can't perform a conspicuous action. Even with wallhacks a 3v1 is still a 3v1
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Pinhead.
Not because I dislike him. I just wouldn't knowingly support nfts.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3114293#Comment_3114293
being slowed down for half a second while you place a bird and being slowed down the entire time you walk around a loop is absolutely a massive difference.
Never said it wasn't. I'm just being pedantic.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Dredge is a decent killer and pretty well made, but he just lacks fun factor. It's not like blight where its super exciting as you zoom around the map outplaying survivors, moving fast, getting hits.
You put the remnant down and slowly walk at the survivor and then teleport to it and m1 them or just m1 them if they dont walk into it. It's not particularly exciting, the only thing really exciting is trying to make plays with locker teleporting but thats not really the reliable part of his kit. Moreover, he's not the easiest to use, unlike killers like legion and Bubba who are kind of brain dead easy even if not the most effective.
At least with a killer like artist you get a similar mechanic when it comes to what it does to force survivors off loops but at least it doesnt slow you down anywhere near as much and there is a skillful/exciting aspect at aiming crows and predicting survivor movements and shes a much stronger killer.
Those things just kind of add up to a killer that no one really wants to main. People who would like his anti loop probably prefer artist. People who like his mobility most likely prefer demo.
At least with a killer like artist you get a similar mechanic when it comes to what it does to force survivors off loops but at least it doesnt slow you down anywhere near as much and there is a skillful/exciting aspect at aiming crows and predicting survivor movements and shes a much stronger killer.
False. Dredge and Artist are both slowed to 92%. The difference is that Artist just slows when placing and launching a bird. Dredge is slowed until he cancels.
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@EntitySpawn said:
I honestly cant be bothered playing if every time it's a nurse my team gives up instantly...
You may as well just delete her, I just want a normal game but since nurse seems to be 70% of my games and everyone gives up is there even a point playing?
Dear killers, whoever gives up first just slug them the whole game. Force them to DC or wait out the game because they're just getting what they want while punishing those trying to play.
Hey, BHVR! You know that killer that has been around for 6 years? The same one with a dedicated fanbase that has been playing her for years? Yeah, delete her from existence because my teammates wanna give up.
I'm all for rebalancing Nurse, but keep in mind, that you need to consider Nurse players too. Yes, there are a fair amount of sweat lords but most people just wanna play their favorite killer.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113724#Comment_3113724
If you have it be a flat 15% for one person being injured, that's asinine as there's likely to be one person injured at any given time.
nowhere in my post do I say that you need to be injured for bonus to apply. The perk I am suggesting is you gain 15% action penalty for equipping the perk. No strings attached.
Do I agree killer should get free generator slowdown for doing nothing? Of course not. The perk is suppose reward the killer for spreading injuries. that's why the perk doesn't grant big bonuses at 1 stack and is not that good if you tunnel single survivor out of the game as you will be permanent at 1 stack or facecamp hooks with 1 person injured on the hook. By chasing multiple survivors and spreading hooks, it rewards the killer for their successful chases and punishes survivors for not healing and rushing generator while injured. I mean iron will was like 4th most used perk and its part of genrushing while injured meta.
Can killer still camp hooks with it? Of course. if you injure entire team, you can cash in your injure pressure and try to convert it into 2nd or 3rd hooks. I mean as long as hooks regress, facecamp hooks and try to 2nd hook or 3rd hook a survivor will always be possible. I would argue this was one of legion's strongest selling points because he could injure entire team very early into the match, go after 1 survivor, down them and put them on a hook. If all 5 generator are incomplete and all 4 survivor are injured, you will not complete the entire objective while injured before the person on the hook dies. Sending single person injured will just lead them to get slugged on top of the hook and sending multiple survivors injured onto the hook will result in a lot of slugging pressure for the killer, though you may hook trade like this. This dynamic also exists for plague's sickness although it is very easy to heal with a fountain. I mean fountain were strongest med-kit in the game, 5 second to heal, now 8 seconds as it keeps getting nerfed from 3 to 5 to 8 seconds. They're still strongest med-kit in the game though in isolation disregarding certain very extreme perks combinations & item combinations.
I can go into more detail for why this gameplay dyanmic is not healthy game design considering the killer is winning games by standing-still at the hook and using automated functionalities of their power to win due to lack counter-play on sickness & legion feral frenzy but we'll skip that part.
With that being said, I don't think he is the worst killer in the game. He certainly isn't strong though. I don't think m1 killer with current loop design will ever be strong. This is why i said community and not "I" in the post. Scottjund is right that legion is not strong. It is easy to spread and he has no chase power so leading long chases is easy if the survivor is skilled at looping. Do survivors make an effort to spread out against legion? Well.you can look at your soloq games for that answer and i will say... somewhat. you need to group to heal, so its not exactly possible to stay split up 100% of the time and many generator in the game are located in the center of maps where co-op generators eases the completion. as a result, the aspect of split up is lose/lose aspect towards survivor gameplay(hello prove thyself). When it comes to looping legion, Don't even get me started on how many teammate still struggle to loop m1 killers on like 90% of survivor-sided maps where legion gets a down in first 30 seconds of the game. that is just another survivor learn to play issue that make legion a lot more viable then he is really suppose to be.
nowhere in my post do I say that you need to be injured for bonus to apply. The perk I am suggesting is you gain 15% action penalty for equipping the perk. No strings attached.
Okay, I misunderstood. but that's because I couldn't believe the suggestion. No one should get a 15% slowdown for simply equipping a perk. A perk should never give value by sheer virtue of existing. It's the same issue people have with Deadlock; you will always get value even if you afk in a corner. It's unfair and uninteractive.
Next, you bring up camping hooks, and I do not understand. If Legion camps someone on hook, then heal at 5 gens, then heal and go for a save. Very simple, especially with boons/medkits being very common. Are you saying Legion's biggest selling point is that he could camp with Thana? That would be dumb, as you'd be better running Deadlock which has less counterplay, is more consistent, and works on all killers (such as Bubba).
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111287#Comment_3111287
his version of the perk still makes it stronger on legion & plague because it is still a scaling perk based off injuries.
if you want it to not scale based off injures.... then you remove the scaling on injuries and put a flat penalty worth using. what posts like these are asking for is dev to change thanotophobia to flat 15% bonus with no conditions. now everyone gains same benefit for using the perk.
what i don't understand is that for longest time, the community has said that legion is one of weakest killer in the game and need changes... so they rework him to make him stronger at injuring survivors which is what his entire ability does and they buff his perk in mid-chapter only to obliterate it.
Thana is a perk that, in concept, is made to punish the entire team for not healing. That's why it scales with injuries, and why it works so well on Plague/Legion, killers you don't heal against. It's a Nurse perk with her perks theme being that they relate to injuries/healing. As such, Thana will always be better on Legion/Plague. If you have it be a flat 15% for one person being injured, that's asinine as there's likely to be one person injured at any given time.
As for your other statement, Legion was not the worst killer in the game. Period. I don't care what Scott said. The entire belief that he was the worst killer was "he has no power to down survivors," which makes little sense given Wraith, Sadako, and Myers are effectively in the same boat (being exposed and being injured are effectively the same).
Reason Legion has been... let's say, reevaluated is that he's been buffed a lot directly and indirectly. The rework replaced his add-ons that ranged from decent to useless. Now, most of his add-ons are actually pretty good, give or take a couple. The rework also made his power a lot less clumsy, reducing his brutal fatigue while also improving his ability to chain hits in a frenzy, instead of constantly frenzying, canceling, frenzying, and so on. To top it off, you can no longer just "give" hits to Legion, because now, chaining hits has a consequence that if he gets 5, you go down.
But what's really helped Legion is that now he is effectively immune to Endurance. This means that DH, BT, and OtR are effectively useless against him. This is huge, as the two best anti-tunnel perks don't work, and exhaustion perks might as well be useless in a lot of cases (not all; but a handful). DH doesn't work, the others won't stop him from injuring you fast since he can still vault pallets, and even if you were already injured before you SB to a pallet, the chase time is still cut in half because you're still a one-shot that doesn't expire.
Thana was good on Legion, but it's not like Freddy with gen regression. Freddy and gen regression are like two pieces of a puzzle; you need them both to make something. Legion doesn't need Thana, even if he was/is perhaps its best user.