Why tunneling at endgame its okey?
I dont understand, if you couldnt kill a survivor during the match doesnt make facecamping at endgame less toxic, its like if behaviour thinks that killers deserve at least one kill even if they couldnt do anything during gen phase otherwhise I dont understand why they would make DS and OTR deactive, its so frustating when you make a tiny mistake during EG and then you get killed because a Bubba or Michael camps you
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??? Why would a killer using a strategy to get a kill would be toxic? That makes no sense. The game isn't over until the lobby screen appears.
There is literally nothing else for the killer to do in endgame. No gens to protect. What else are they supposed to do?
Why do you think you're already out before the game even ended?
It's the fact that there are no more Gen left to defend... so Killers will take advantage of injured Survivors and so on and so forth
Camping is toxic?
Theres no gens left to protect, there's nothing else to do apart from try to just kill you.
I can get being annoyed at being camped or tunnelled at 4/5 gens, because you can end up barely having a chance to play the game.
But after all gens the game is about to end anyway and you've stayed alive the whole time. If I'm playing survivor I don't want the killer to go stand in the corner while we all finish healing and leave, the frantic endgame sweat is fun. Sorry you don't see it that way though.
This. Gens are gone, Gates are usually impossible to protect, and even if they are possible to protect its not worth it. Your only feasable objective now is hooked survivors.
It's a valid tactic at that point in the match. It's annoying when it happens to you but the killer really is out of options at that point. If they want to look like a goof running backwards counting down borrowed time that's their business.
Learn to take roll with the punches and just call the game a win. The fact that you win and are still salty about not escaping is a you problem my dude.
Tunneling is not toxic it's unfun for sure but it's stragedy to win and easiest way to do so is to get one out. However it can be toxic if killers just throws the game to get you and ignores every other aspect of the game and then facecamps and hit you on hook. But if it's bubba then it's just his nature. Tunneling and facecamping in endgame is perfectly fair and no-one should complain about that.
well if we go by how the game considers mmr then no we can't say he won since mmr only goes up for survivors if and only IF they escape out the exit gate which is causing so many problems with players you get but thats already been talked about to death.
It's definitely not toxic, it's just annoying to the survivor. Tunneling and camping are pretty much the only thing the killer can do at endgame so I never get mad at it.
Because what you're describing is bot tier behavior. Why would I play on purpose to lose when at best I can secure a kill? That's like asking "in a 3 gen why do survivors try their hardest to complete 1 gen vs get all 3 to 99 and then complete it?" It's near the end of the game and probably the last possible moment to secure any wins(kills/escapes)
You have to cut the killers some slack. They're out of options at that point. Blame the MMR. Just getting one kill isn't at all a measurement of their skill. Insidious camping Leatherfaces sometimes get 4 kills. There's zero skill in that but MMR says it is.
Facecamping at endgame is considered less toxic because the survivor at least got to play the match and make it to Endgame.
Facecamping at 5 gens can be considered more toxic because you are trying to deprive 1 survivor of being able to play anymore in the match among other reasons.
If the game isn’t over why are survivors perks disabled when the last gen is completed? Can’t have a one sided brain my dude it’s not over for either sides
Because those perks exist to de-incentivize reckless tunneling when there are other things left for the killer to do? Which does not apply to endgame? Can you please think before saying things that make no sense?
Because those perks are free outs if your team isn't brain dead/you aren't the last survivor alive unless you are facing an insta down chainsaw killer. Bonus points because you can use them to protect your teammates as well, so even though you aren't being tunneled you can use the endurance anti tunnel protection to save your friend from getting hit
One game isn't going to tank you to baby survivor level. People need to not care about their mmr so much especially if they are tired of "Nurse/Blight every game"
Strategy = standw in front of the hooked survivor preventing anyone to rescue them
Im talking from the pov of a solo survivor, most players wont risk they win to unhook you
It still can be done. Even against bubba or any other killer (if it's 2-man save at minimum).
Also you should try to play killer more to understand it. Because killer really has no other options considering gates take 20s and can't regress (and are never THAT close to each other). I mean if camp/tunnel at endgame would be forbidden, then just make survivors autoescape on last gen. Because endgame would be just boring wait for killer to loose virtually all the time.
One more thing - at the endgame, survivors have best chance to get together, heal up and actually do something about camp/tunnel - making it most fair time to do so in the game. I see no reason to deny them this time to do it.
Sidenote - this is one of the rare ocasions I fully agree with @SuzuKR . Maybe it's because this does not concern nurse specifically 😁
At least by endgame you'd presumably have gathered a decent amount of BP, possibly even a pip, so it's not a total loss unlike if it happened right off the bat at 5 gens
the game is over, its kill securing time.
the killer has no objective other than trying to get a kill, so anything goes
From my list of Unbiased Rules to follow:
4 - When the gates are powered... Anything goes!
Don't kid yourself by thinking otherwise! Neither side is gonna roll over and just "let you win" when this happens, and not only do both sides know this... Realistically at that point the only job the killer role has is to secure kills since there aren't any gens left for them to protect, and the only job the survivors have is to escape with as many alive as possible.
So, No matter what tactics or skills you employ at this period in the match/trial... The gloves are off! Recall rule 3, and feel free to do whatever it takes to achieve your goal. No one can blame you for whatever you do in the endgame, and if they do, for the most part they're just being sore sports.
Enjoy your victory, or embrace your defeat. Either way, "When the gates are powered" is, more often than not, the most intense part of the trial, and you should take whatever advantages you can against your opposition as they (mostly) won't show any mercy towards you.
And here's a Link to the full list if you want to give it a read, however, I am considering updating and re-posting it when the Project W chapter goes live, so think of this as a preview.
the perks disable as soon as the 5th gen is completed not when the door is opened. So the killer does have stuff to do lmfao. You know how many kills I’ve gotten patrolling doors/catching people off guard? The game isn’t over for the survivor yet they get an easy death. Obviously you’re too much of a hypocrite to understand this though lmfao you even contradict your own thoughts doing so lol please think before you talk
if the doors are 99d (happens in ~20 seconds after the last gen is done) the doors are opened without the timer starting, so the killer has 1 objective - their hook
But the doors aren’t immediately 99’d a split second after the 5th gen is done are they?
but they are ~20 seconds after the last gen is done(as i said)
if youre in chase for 20 seconds after the last gen is done, theres no point patrolling
if youre in chase for 5 seconds, but cant get to a gate in 15 seconds, theres no point patrolling
if youre not in chase at all, but cant reach a gate in 20 seconds, theres no point in patrolling
gates are too quick to open, have 0 punishment for being 99d and if you do go there theres either no survivor there the 3 survivors will go and get the unhook, and thats 4 out for free, or the survivor there will open it and leave, and the other 2 survivors will get the unhook, and then thats 4 out for free
if you camp, you can reliably get hook trades, start a snowball, and maybe get more than 1 kill
if you dont, you get 0 kills and the game talks ######### to you in the end screen
I think you’re giving about 80%+ of the community too much credit lmfao. A lot of the time I snowball in endgame and don’t camp or tunnel during it. It does not take about 20 seconds for the door to be opened a lot of the time. You’re acting like in every game the last gen is always the one completed right next to the door lmfao. No it’s not. A lot of the time they’re farther away. A lot of the time you can predict which door they’re running to. A lot of the time I end up killing a person running to the door/in the middle of opening it. Either hook them near the door and patrol that door so nobody opens it or bring them far away so you can whoever tries saving has to run a long time to the exit gates and you can down them during that time. A lot of the time survivors don’t realize that a door near where the hooked person isn’t 99’d or opened so when the run to save and I injure them they run to that door which is closer, thinking they’ll be able to open it/exit and it’s a free down. Lets not act like 80%+ of the games you play are against the best of the best survivors and that 80%+ of the games you play all 4 survivors are still alive in endgame. Floods of rage gives you great aura reading for endgame. BBQ and chili does also. Bitter murmur is good too. Plenty of ways to get a lot of hooks/kills in endgame. The game isn’t over for either side
Because at endgame, the dynamic changes.
Normally, the killer should leave the hook to patrol gens, giving the survivors a chance to unhook while the killer pressures the map.
In endgame, this is gone. The killer's sole objective is securing the last kill(s), as defending exit gates is flat out impossible with how quickly they're opened and that they don't regress. As such, the only thing left to do is to defend the hook and get someone out of the game.
if you hook near a door, the hooked survivor is guaranteed out, especially after wesker with 7 years of endurance
if you leave a hook to go to a door, if theres a survivor there, even if theyre actively opening the door, they can get the door opened and escape for free unless youre either nurse or huntress
and i do vs good survivors, often i get comp teams who are really hard to beat even if theyre playing chill
and even if ive got 1 or 2 dead in endgame, theres still really no point in giving them the unhook for free
if 1s dead, i still can only really camp, bc theres uncounterable unhooks that a survivor with a fresh lobotomy could do
if 2 are dead, then i still just camp bc 1s getting out guaranteed, i dont want to go 400m to a door, then have the unhook happen, and then 2 to get out bc i decided that survivors were little babies that deserve pity
the survivors youre vsing are straight up tutorial ai if youre getting a kill in endgame without camping/tunneling
If we balanced for solo survivor this game would be dead/broken. Look at VHS which has a garbage killer/monster experience and I'm pretty sure sub 1k players even at prime time. Balancing for solo makes no sense when you can queue up with 4 friends on comms and all play smart. Can you name a single successful game where they balance down instead of up?
Tunneling at any point in the game is okay.
Where else is the killer gonna go? The 99% exit gate?
theyre obv meant to go sit in a corner in basement
if they arent letting survs escape for free, theyre playing wrong >:(
Personally think camping is always toxic, and either you're toxic or you're not. At the end of the day, you either think one kill is honestly inconsequential or you don't, and you can either make a big deal out of it as killer Or survivor, or just leave it behind and say it doesn't really make a difference.
By this logic lets take out hatch and make the last survivor see the killers aura and the killer can see the survivors aura...it's just one kill bro, who even cares?
Because it’s pointless talking to somebody with an ego like yours. “Often I get comp players” no. You do not get the best of the best in like 70%+ of your games. Sorry to tell you that. “The survivors your versing are straight up tutorial AI if you’re getting a kill in endgame” yes because insulting me because I’m able to get a “kill or 2” in endgame must mean I’m just versing bad survivors not actually mean that I made good plays or was better. But fine, “if you’re near a door the hooked survivor will have a guaranteed out” if you’re near the door chasing a survivor why are you not putting pressure on the door opener standing there for 16 seconds opening the door? If the survivor was downed after the door was opened, why did you not bring him as far as you can away from the door? Why are you going after the “unhooked” survivor and not going after the unhooker you injured? Why are all 4 survivors alive?
and the rest of your comments are talking about camping. Sure camp if you want, this thread is about “why should the killer get to tunnel easy in endgame” or whatever. Camp the guy on hook doesn’t mean you need to tunnel the guy on hook. You’re just waiting for the other survivors to come to you so you can kill them.
and you keep pretending like almost all of your games are against the best when they’re obviously not
Why are all 4 survivors alive?
Why Did you not carry the survivor as far as possible?
Well the killers natural cooldown on a swing is 2.7 seconds, wiggle time is 15-16 seconds base(dependiing on how many greats the survivor hits on wiggle). If N survivors are alive then you have to consider (N-1) * (2.7) if they all rush to bodyblock the killer. Or in other words if 4 survivors are alive and you manage to down one near the gate you have to consider 3 * 2.7 = 8.1 seconds of melee cooldown before you can start to hook(this is if nobody comes back to block again). You also move slower than survivors base so they should be able to cut you off and start a bodyblock chain.
Why are you not putting pressure on the survivor opening the door
Well there's like a billion scenarios we can consider here, but if I hook the survivor just as the last gen is completed it is going to take me ~5-10 seconds to probably traverse other to the last gen completed/nearest door. Again this goes back to how many survivors are alive and if the answer is 3+ they can do some pretty wacky things.
Why are you not going after the unhooker?
Oh but I am, but that's where I get one hit on the unhooker then the other 1-2 survivors start bodyblocking. The person who just got recently unhooked is the safest with a bare minimum of 5 seconds BT(soon to be 10) who can bodyblock for the unhooker. Between melee swing CD speed and exhaustion perks there is almost no scenario where I can down the unhooker if I get bodyblocked successfully, most maps are not that big.
You pretend your games are against the best when they're obviously not
Cool, by this logic nurse isn't a problem as she has the lowest kill rate out of any killer and god nurses are surely rare, correct?
Because those perks are there to dissuade frowned upon tunneling or facecamping, but there is no frowned upon tunneling or face camping after all gens are complete. Once the 5th gen is completed, all bets are off.
weird take, usually when people compare things they use the more common scenarios rather than the uncommon so I’m not sure why you did it oppositely
heres why: your first answer about all 4 being alive. If all 4 are alive and there’s 8 hooks then they’re all on death hook so this reference you’re making is pointless to this conversation on this thread. Any one of those survivors you down will be dead. If they’re all by each other make sure to down one and hit one or 2 more to make sure they can’t body block. Enjoy your kill.
the next answer you’re automatically saying that all 4 survivors are right there next to each other again when that simply isn’t happening in a lot of matches. If you took a long time to get a guy downed after the last gen was completed sure but we are talking at any point in endgame. Not sure why you’re using the more uncommon scenario where all 4 are next to each other
next one about the door: I was referring to his comment about the survivor being hooked right next to the door and being able to run out with basekit BT. If he is chasing a survivor next to the door then he’s implying the door isn’t opened yet and why he’s not putting some pressure on the guy opening the door is beyond me. If he downs the survivor he’s chasing and goes to hit the guy opening the door that’s a lot of pressure for the killer.
and again you are using the more uncommon scenario of 4 survivors being alive, all healthy, enough time to come unhook, and enough brains to pull off the body blocks perfectly. Listen, you can NOT tunnel or camp and still end up having a kill with 7 hooks. Go after survivor 1, then 2, then 3, then back to 1, then 4, then 3, then 1 and you’ve got a kill. Add another survivor in the mix making it 8-9 for an even better “im not tunneling you”. Why you’re going out of your way to talk about the obviously more uncommon scenarios is beyond me. What about the scenario where 1 person is dead, 2 people working on 2 different gens and 1 person getting chased and hooked shortly before the last gen is done. Its easy for the survivors to not have enough time to open a door because 1 has to go save. Which means the other will get chased. Which means he will get downed. Which means they will have to come save him but how can they do that if 1 of them is injured and they have to open the door. Which means it’s an easy tunnel for the guy who is already on hook. We can go on all day about scenarios but avoiding common scenarios isn’t helping anything. Stop talking about the most craziest games and talk about the major of games where there’s casuals who aren’t in voice chat and are just playing the game
Killers always deserves a kill, no matter how badly they played
Tunneling at endgame? If you survived until endgame you werent even tunneled that game lol
If your using this logic the why do you deserve hatch if you couldn't finish the gens before your team died then why do you deserve a chance to escape and deny the killer the 4k they earned?
You gotta look at both sides of the spectrum
But that's because the killer has 2 objectives
Kill and stall the game
Surivors have 2 objectives
Surive and finish the gens
When the killer fails stall the game they only have kill left
I mean, what else do they have to do, do you want Bubba or Mickey to go in the corner and count the amount of dandelion seeds a plant has?
Fair point, but have you ever been face camped at the EG and your randoms team mates just leave you there cause it was to risky? That is the most afwul feeling in this game
My problem is that behaviour makes anti tunneling perks disable during EG, they are like "okey lets make some survivor perks useless so maybe our baby killer can get a kill"
Play some killers please. What you propose is unfair towards them. Having DS/OTR at endgame active means loose/loose situation for killer. Not fun at all. And I say that as 90% survivor main.
If you get to higher MMR, you will get better chance of survivors that will actually try to rescue you. That is if you contributed to team escape...
Have you ever been ignored by your team when the Killer ISNT camping....If I had a dollar for everytime I went from 1st hook state to death on hook when no one came to save me and the killer isn't camping I would be a billionaire.
Neither camping nor tunneling is toxic