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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116348#Comment_4116348
we have acknowledged the issues with queue times and we are pretty stuck when it comes to allieviating these, which is why PWYW was implemented.
Are you gonna acknowledge the issue of people being literally unable to play the game because of Denuvo
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Killer, not even close.
A bad match as Survivor is whatever. Sometimes it can even be funny.
A bad match as Killer is just pure misery. Utterly wretched.
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Enough RE for now.
DMC would feel too out of place. It's already ridiculous enough seeing the likes of Alucard or Belmonts getting knocked around by Killers, but Dante too? Hell no.Demento/Haunting Ground would be extremely fitting for DBD but barely anybody even knows what it is, so it has practically zero chance of ever being added. Even Capcom barely acknowledges that it exists.
Dino Crisis doesnt particularly have anything that would make a good Killer, and Survivor-only chapters are just kinda lame.
Dead Rising is probably the best balance out of these.
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His attack is heavily telegraphed, you can very consistently dodge it dude.
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It's really baffling that BHVR is just okay with the mascot of their game being complete trash.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057442#Comment_4057442
Literally any other idea, but making survivor fun, by adding new, unique classes you cant do in 1v4.
Add more killers, add iri shards, make bp 800%, why is everyone ignoring the one and only answer that would make killer players, also play survivor?.
Its insane how people one way or another, intentionally or not, skip every other option, but THE one option, that doesnt make bhvr suffer with these ideas.
Is adding new classes such an impossible idea or does it have some major consequence that im overlooking, that im the only one that, is not seeing it?.
Adding one class that you could've replaced with escapist and find a flashlight from chests before torchbearer got added, does not help.
As I already said, that wont be enough to shift the queue times, nothing short of actually adding a tangible, worthwhile bonus to playing as Survivor will, like Iri Shards. That's basically the only thing that will get people who just want to play 2v8 Killer to switch over to playing 2v8 Survivor.
New mechanics like new Survivor classes will only get people to switch over to Survivor for like 1 or 2 matches to try out the new thing before they switch right back to Killer.
Making the BP multiplier even higher also won't make a big enough difference either, because a significant portion of the playerbase does not care about BP because they've already unlocked everything they want to unlock and don't care about getting to high Prestige levels.
Plus Survivor absolutely does not need to be any stronger in 2v8.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057469#Comment_4057469
100%. If you're meant to work together as a team and feel part of a team, you should share more benefits. You loop the Killer long enough for me to pop the gen, so I get points for your success and you gets points for mine. If they wanted to they could limit it to escapes, but I like the idea of everything being rewarded to avoid that constant feeling of "I queued up and I have nothing to show for it because I got tunneled out immediately".
I remember the reason for not doing that in the past was some BS about fairness, but it's truly not that deep. For a largely casual game, there's no reason to be so stringent about it.
Another issue with the current MMR system is that it makes the endgame boring.
In the current system, survivors have zero reason to risk going for a save, since according to the MMR system, the only thing that counts as a win is you personally escaping.You could make a big play like rescuing your other 3 team-mates from the basement, sacrificing yourself so all 3 of them could escape, but according to the MMR system, you suck at the game if you do that.
In the current MMR system, you have zero reason to not just open the gates and leave as soon as possible, screw your team-mates.
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@UnicornMedal said:
Something else I was talking to some friends about that would be great is a better scoring system. One that provides better incentives for being part of the team. The game overall expects Survivor to die more often than not, which is its own can of worms, but death should not equal loss. I think the team should get scored as a team. Say you get 1/2 the points for every objective completed that you're not involved with and everyone gets a big bonus if even one player makes it out/one player is killed (for Killer obvs).
I don't have high hopes they'd do something like that for a number of reasons (namely ego), but I do think it would improve morale quite a bit.
Yeah I've always found it baffling that Survivors are scored individually and not as a team.
Like if I do a huge amount of gen progress or lead the Killer on long chases, but end up dying while all 3 other Survivors escape, that shouldn't be a loss for me! All my team-mates got out and the Killer lost hard! -
@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057088#Comment_4057088
"Why is killer queue an hour?"
Killer will ALWAYS have long queue times in 2v8, just because playing co-op with another Killer is something you can only do in 2v8. Like even in the current state of 2v8, Survivor is absurdly overpowered compared to Killer yet everyone still wants to play as Killer because it's unique.
Like the only way Killer queue times will ever not be stupidly long in 2v8 is if they do something crazy like giving out Iridescent Shards for playing Survivor, which they will never do. -
Better game balance. Like I know 2v8 is meant to be the more casual, less balanced mode, but that doesn't mean it should just be a completley unbalanced clownshow either, like it is now.
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Bubba, Artist, and Clown are probably my top 3.
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I want the exact opposite. I want more "mundane" Survivors.
My favourite Survivors are the ones that are simple, like Dwight or Adam. Most of the recent Survivors from the last few years feel like they are trying way too hard to be cool
Vee the rockstar girl, Sable the cute goth girl, Vittorio the historical nobleman, Gabriel - futuristic space guy, Yui the cool street racer girl, Jonah the cia agent man, Haddie the paranormal investigator, Taurie the Entity cultist, ect.
I'd far rather have a simplistic "bland" everyday characters like "Charlie the plumber", "Tim the law student", "Vanessa the sales clerk" "Gary the accountant", "Sarah the waitress" than any of those.
I also hate cosmetics that are really flashly or goofy, and wish I could disable them clientside. The best survivor cosmetics in the game are usually the defaults or low-rarity ones since they tend to just be normal clothes, while higher rarity cosmetics tend to be ugly overdesigned eyesores.
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I don't think there's any increase.
It's just that for whatever reason whenever there's an event some players get a bizzare sense of entitlement and expect the other side to just dick around and let them win.
So whenever their opponent doesn't do that, they get mad and perceive it as toxicity/tryharding, when in reality the person is literally just playing the game normally. -
I already liked him the way he was.
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I think DBD's MMR system is horribly designed for both sides.
Killer can gain/maintain MMR even if do terribly because the standard of what the MMR system counts as a win is nonsensical. For the Killer to actually lose MMR they have to get absolutely curbstomped and get only 0-1 kills. If the Killer gets steamrolled for the first 99% of the match and then only gets a couple kills in endgame because Survivors basically started throwing because they got cocky instead of just leaving, according to the MMR system the Killer did great.
Survivor has the opposite problem. Good Survivor players can carry their team for 99% of the match and still lose MMR just because they died at the last minute. Doing lots of gen progress, leading the killer on long loops, making saves. None of it matters. All the MMR system for Survivor cares about is if you escape or not. Like If you sacrifice your life so your other 3 team-mates can escape, guess what, you lost buddy. Nevermind that this is a team-based game and that the rest of your team got away thanks to you.
Meanwhile bad Survivor players can gain/maintain MMR by getting carried by the rest of their team, or worse, by deliberately doing nothing and waiting for their team to die so they can get hatch / exit gates after the Killer closes the hatch.
Terrible design all around. -
@Chrarcq said:
No surprise for anybody keeping up with the news. Looking forward to how they're gonna adapt a character with a Freddy-like power. Having the Halloween void realm gimmick as part of his kit seems so evident that I will be very baffled if he does not. Would be cool to give Demo a bone alongside as well, he deserves it.
Yeah I also hope Demo gets an update, he's kinda ass, especially after STBFL got nerfed.
He feels like a Killer stuck in 2016-2017-era DBD, despite him having been released in 2019.
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Yeah this was extremely predictable if you've been paying attention to recent happenings, but still disappointing. Everything was already pointing towards it, but I was really hoping that it would have all just been a coincidence. Out of any existing licensed chapter in already in the game, ST was probably the one I was least interested in getting a "sequel" for.
Hopefully the power is at least interesting. -
@rysm said:
Scan lines dont "scan" if a survivor isn't moving i don't think. Theres also a cooldown after a scan line eventually does scan. It's pretty weird. Can also crouch and move through them and it doesn't do anything either lol
Yeah, no, the lines just straight up did not work. As I said, one other player also noticed they weren't working and just kept deliberately letting the lines hit him and they did not build up any lock-on whatsoever, no matter how long we just stood around that drone waiting.
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@angrychuck said:
Well the original design had the emoticons, so technically this is the faithful adaptation of it. Not to even mention that most of the community actually wanted the addition of these emoticons. I do feel however they should have both versions available.
Yeah I know, but I just really do not like the emoticons and preferred the original "unfaithful" iteration of the cosmetic.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029934#Comment_4029934
We couldn't even try the unhook protections and anti Slug devs scrapped em all i give up tbh
BHVR literally delayed a chapter so that they could have 2 entire PTBs dedicated to trying them, what are you talking about.
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Absolutley yes.
Not only should the time penalties be longer, but there should also be penalties beyond the time penalty.
Just the time penalty alone does nothing since people can just ignore the penalty by alt-tabbing/exiting out of the game and doing something else for a bit.Make it so that in addition to the time penalty, the player gets a "Debt" they have to pay off. And while a player has Debt, they cannot gain any BP, EXP, or Quest Progression.
Eg: Player DCs and gains a Debt of 100,000 BP. Meaning the next 100,000 BP they would have gained instead goes to paying off that Debt.
That'll actually stop people from DCing.
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Doesnt help that DBD has an absolutley terribly designed MMR system.
The Killer can get their ass steamrolled for 99% of the match, but still maintain or even gain MMR if the Survivors throw the game because they got greedy/cocky.
A Survivor can do nothing for 99% of the match and still gain MMR because the rest of team carried them to endgame, or maintain MMR by just playing like a scumbag and waiting for all teammates to die so they can get hatch.A Survivor can be the team's #1 contributor to gen progress/chase time and still lose MMR because they died at the last second or sacrificed themself to save another survivor, or even multiple other suvivors!
It's overall just really bad in every way. Hopefully that MMR rework listed in the "Phase 3" of their roadmap ends up being good, but I don't have high hopes for it.
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@mecca said:
You do know there is a lack of survivors right?
There will always be more demand for Survivors than Killers in 2v8 no matter how you balance it, simply because its the only game mode where Killers can play with another Killer, while in 2v8 survivor your basically just playing the game the same as you always do. Killer massively sucks in 2v8 but people still flock to it solely because there is no other way to play 2 killers.
You could literally make 2v8 Survivor twice as powerful as they already are and give them a 1000% Bloodpoint bonus, and the Killer queue would still be over-packed.
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Kind of a mix. As long as you did well as survivor, I think that's a win.
I very strongly disagree with the idea of "Only an escape is a win for Survivor", that like saying "only a 4k at 5gens is a win for Killer". You don't have to do perfectly every match.
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Yeah, 2v8 Killer queue times are always going to be bloated, simply because you can't play with another Killer in any other situation, while with 2v8 survivor you're basically just doing the same thing as you are in 1v4.
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Turns out when you make the game borderline unwinnable vs good survivors for anyone other than top-tiers, people start playing top-tiers a lot more! Who would have guessed.
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I think the Totem mechanic should just be reworked entirely. They should do something basekit as well, rather than being entirely dependent on specific perks, so that survivors always have a reason to cleanse them.
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They shouldnt do the "drone dash" thing, but they should add that EMP dart thing that only affects claw trapped survviors.
That combined with the buffs should make Merchant less garbage. -
I don't have an issue with being tunnelled at all. Being chased is the most fun part of the game so getting tunnelled is A-OK with me.
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Mascot / face of the game, yet has been trash-tier since release. Why.
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Every good part of the rework is utterly cancelled out by how bad Slaughtering Strike is lmao. Should just scrap it and go back to the old lunge.
Yes, I know there's an addon for it. It should just be basekit, and rework all the SS-related addons. A killer shouldnt need a specific addon just to not feel like absolute crap to play. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001466#Comment_4001466
My point stands, that back and forth typically happens before the patch notes, not after.
As for everything else, I mean, these changes in particular were pretty far-reaching and the problems they ended up having were much subtler than many immediate critics predicted. There is a lot of value in giving an initial response but waiting to test things before you're too conclusive.
A lot of this particular PTB's content sounded scary on paper but turned out to be fine in practice with only a handful of smaller issues to resolve, and that's often true of a lot of PTBs. You get the occasional one where it really is just obviously a bad idea on paper, but most of the time people who have a knee-jerk reaction are only right accidentally and without a full understanding of why they're right, or they're just wrong completely.
It's always better to give a more informed set of criticisms than immediately dismiss everything out of hand, basically.
What I'm saying is that the criticisms experienced players are already informed by player's experience with the game; and that some people act like that doesnt matter at all and that any potential changes exist in a opaque bubble that you cannot possibly predict.
Not only that, you're serious underselling how much of a mess this PTB was. Like half those ideas are so bad on paper that they shouldn't have even went to testing; the fact that anyone thought they were a good idea at any point is baffling. Just like how in my original post, stuff like "Sable Ward walks through walls" or "115 Nurse" is so absurd that it's not even worth testing, so was some of the things tested in the PTB, and I'm being a bit hyperbolic, yes, but my core point remains. -
@littlehoot said:
This feels like a straw man argument quite frankly.
@BbQz said:
And honestly your changes wouldn't even effect the game all that much aside from the joke one of sable ward. Nurse would just be stronger and windows weaker but pallets are stronger as they can't be broken.
And everyone would use hope so using a window only once seems fair to me. Lol we of course need to test it in the PTB to see if it all works
@jesterkind said:
To be fair, most of that discourse comes from people reacting to the Dev Update, not the patch notes.
Critical information that heavily affects the proposed changes often isn't present in the Dev Update. For example, when the one for this PTB dropped, people were freaking out about the repair speed bonus for killing someone before six hooks, but others would point out that we can't really decide if that's game breaking or not until we actually see what percentage repair speed buff it is.
After we did see it, the number ended up low enough that the killer's still comfortably ahead after killing someone and it'd still be worth the trade a lot of the time. It was very important context, and claiming the change was terrible or would be a disaster before having that context was just premature.Plus, y'know, obviously most changes are way less clear-cut than those examples you provided. A lot of the changes that actually make it to a PTB do need to be tested before we can be conclusive.
Yes these changes are absurd, that's not the point I'm trying to make.
My point is that even after the details of the PTB were shown, people were still saying that stuff.
Like, no. If you have even just like couple thousand hours into DBD you generally can accuratley predict how a particular change is going to affect gameplay. This doesnt even have to be about this PTB specifically. People have done the same with proposed changes in other PTBs that turned out bad and then were (usually) reversed.
The whole point of this post is that it's stupid when act like it's impossible to predict how a change will affect the game just from the patchnotes. While this might be true in some cases where the changes are small and subtle, major changes like these are very easy to predict, and many people did very accurately predict how they would turn out, despite people saying that it was impossible to predict before testing it. -
DBD favors Killers at low skill levels of the game, but favors Survivors at high skill levels.
A low skill Killer will typically do well against team of low-skill Survivors, but a team of high-skill survivors are at more of an advantage than a high-skill Killer.
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The lore for the early character were fine, where characters only got a short paragraph of info in their bio and then left most things to the imagination, and kept things pretty simple. Especially Survivors. Dwight, Meg, Claudette and Jake were cool. They felt like believable everyday characters. Meanwhile now every Survivor is feels like some terrible deviantart OC. Trying way too hard to be cool and interesting, but ends up just coming off lame.
I'd far rather have "Here's Cindy, she's a waitress. Now she's in the Entity's realm" or "Here's Tom, he's a plumber. Now he's in the Entity's realm." over "Here's Cindy, she's spirit medium, here's her 1000+ word backstory about how she already knew about the Entity and fought against it with her very special and cool powers" or "Here's Tom, he's a rockstar and is super rich and he's really awesome, here's his 1200+ word backstory about how he was best friends with the killer that came with his chapter"
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Most of the changes are good, but Slaughtering Strike is so awful it completley invalidates all the good changes.
They should just remove Slaughtering Strike and leave it as the exposed lunge. Yes, I know there's an addon that turns it back to the exposed lunge, but it should just be baseline. You shouldnt need an addon just for the Killer to not feel awful to play, especially not a high-rarity addon.
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It shouldnt be permanent but it should happen more frequently at a shorter time window.
Like instead of lasting for a 2-3 weeks straight once every 3-4 months, have it happen 1-2 days per week.
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Old version was a funny meme addon like Vanity Mirror or Scarred Hand. Overall detrimental to the Killer, but can lead to some interesting gameplay scenarios.
New version is just straight up detrimental with no upside or interesting applications.
Utterly baffled as to why they changed it in the way they did.
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Great addition to the game. Helps reduce the amount of losers that just kill themselves on hook the milisecond something doesnt go their way.
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I think it would be better if 2v8 came around much more frequently, but lasted a much shorter amount of time.
Like, instead of having it last for 2-3 weeks straight once every few months, have it happen every 2 weeks, but only for like 2-3 days.
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Lights Out is cool in theory but sucks to actually play, and the addition of the Candlabras made the game mode even worse than it originally was.
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It's baffling that the mascot of the game has been consistently trash-tier for pretty much the entirety of DBD's lifespan.
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I've completed all 4 of the"2v8 Quests - Part 1" quests, but my progress for "Complete 4 2v8 quests" to unlock the Ghostface avatar is at 0/4.
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Trapper, easily. Give him a big rework.
I dont understand why BHVR has let the game's mascot be consistently one of the worst Killers in the game throughout its entire lifespan.
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Disagree, I think the new lighting looks great.
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Some Killers are so bad that they might as well not even be in the game, so reworking them would basically be adding a new Killer.
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Even if they did add yet another RE Killer, there are several other characters I would prefer before Lady D lmao.
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Maybe there are worse maps balance-wise, but Eyrie is both unbalanced AND really unpleasant to look at visually.
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It's one of the strongest perks in the game by far. The ability to just straight up deny the Killer a kill by transferring a hook state from a death hook survivor to somebody that hasn't been touched is insanely valuable. The only aguments I have ever seen people make against this perk basically boil down to "well its bad if you're using it wrong / if your team is bad", which is a idiotic argument, it's like saying "well Nurse isnt top tier because if you can't land your blinks she's useless".
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Undertuned. His power is very high-risk, low-reward.
Plus his addons are just awful.