Gandor
Gandor
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@mizark3 said:
What exactly is everyone's definition of 'pre-dropping' pallets? I've rewatched Killer streamer VODs against me as Survivor, and they have said I 'pre-dropped' when I got the stun after I ran around a pallet 3 times while injured. I literally waited for the last possible moment to drop the pallet (and not go down), and people call that pre-dropping. I can't comprehend a pallet stun (not camping the pallet) in any reasonable world being pre-dropping, but that is the most common descriptor I've heard when watching those VODs.
What I understand 'pre-dropping' to be, is a pallet thrown before injury is even a threat. Personally I love those players, because they are my little deadzone makers. I chase them for 2-3 pallets, go back around and chase someone else into the deadzone the other player made. To be fair this is hardly effective on the newest maps, as you just need to bloodlust Borgo/Garden weaker pallets for the most effective hit as an M1 Killer, but that is a map problem, not a player problem.
As far as the pallet drop CD, I think it would be fine if only applied to the least hooked player(s) (including ties, only while everyone is alive). That way someone being tunneled can still spam pallets without a care, but also no one can burn all the pallets and make their team lose due to their pallet greed.
I generally agree, but CD part is just stupid - it means CD is too long to do anything or you are just dead if you find yourself in window-scarce map like Gideon. You will have literally nothing to loop around in 80% of map.
But otherwise full agree - once I see a survivor that heavy-predrops (and finds pallets easily - indicating windows of opportunity), I make a mental note about him. This survivor will most likely be the reason why I will win that killer game. Free deadzone/snowball for me. Just don't chase him for 5 gens until whole map is a deadzone (because by that time, survivors are out).
BTW this is not map issue, this is issue of both sides playing braindead - survivor running from pallet to pallet and killer running from dropped pallet to dropped pallet always kicking it and never looking at bigger picture
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@HarryRugby19 said:
Totally agree. In its current state, I wouldn't use Ruin if it wasn't even a Hex. Its a joke the nerf they did to it, and the fact there is no recognition at all that they destroyed the perk.
Its just another case of a killer perk being totally destroyed as it was semi-strong. Let us remind that Dead Hard was meta from its first iteration to very recently (Its still a very useable and impactful perk, not destroyed like Ruin).
We can't be surprised if 80 percent of the player base are vouching for things to get nerfed, its waaaaay more likely to be heard than the measly 20 percent killer base (Most likely this number is bigger on the survivor end).
Ah us vs them again.
But ok. Let's bite. They nerfed iron will even more then ruin.
What now? Should we say based on this devs are killer-sided?
To the topic - yes, ruin should definitely get at least half it's regression reverted so that at least it gets 150% regression. Also that dying condition basically does nothing as hexes are now quite fragile. So I don't care one way or another if they removed it.
Keeping it as-is with just loosing hex part would have been ok, if we didn't have killers like skull merchant that already can guard gens for extremely long time (and keep people off gens for a long time). Remove this killer and it's also sensible buff. Otherwise, please don't do that
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454609#Comment_3454609
The difference is, jolt can only be brought once, while Adre can be brought up to 4 times. And Adre gets more problematic the more ppl have it. Its one of very few perks were your action as a surv directly benefits other players, possibly FAR away. Think about it as a remote heal AND sprint burst for the one being chased. The higher the pick rate of Adre, the more urgent it is to nerf it, really! Just think about the extreme of having adre on every player all the time. You can practially just scrap end game all together and let the survs auto-escape once all gens are done then.
Adre sits way too high in pick rate currently (over 30% according to nightlight). And I don't buy the notion that there's no other thing to run. There are many solid and slept-on perks, they are just not as "op" as adre is. Jolt is in a healthier spot (shy of 20% according to nightlight). It has it's limitations (only basic attack), and when you recognize the killer has it, can try to play around it (going down far away form gens, jump into locker). Adre does not have that limitations or counterplay. The only condition is to get all gens done. That can be difficult to achive in solo Q, but is fairly easy with coordinated swf. There's no counterplay for the killer, Terminus can deny heal, but the sprint always comes through. Noed is usually gone after the first down, often even before.
And thats exactly what i want to tackle with the remove of the ignore exhaustion effect: Giving it some more limitation (may not be exhausted, so no SB into ADRE), and simultaniously give killers a way to counter it (exhaustion addon's or perks). It's still in the power of the survs to finish the last gen, so they can even counter the killer counterplay by waiting out exhaustion effects before popping the last gen.
I totally agree that nerfing around stats may not be the right approach in the general case. But that does not negate the fact that there can still be situation where the pick rate absolutely has an impact on the severeness of an issue. I would say it's generally a good guideline for survivor perks: Is the perk getting problematic when run by all four survivors? That certainly was the situation with other prominent survivor perk nerfs (old DS, initial MoM, old and new DH). Adre imo falls in the same category, the killer looses all pressure during end game when all survs run it (and the killer does not have one on a hook).
About 20% of my killer games never see last gen pop. If 4 ppl brought adren all the time, the percentage would only go up.
Also adren is best when it's just 1 person that have it. It allows chance at hook rescue even against such a campers as bubba, which is a good thing. Alternatively person with it can try to chase.
But it's much more likely the perk works exactly as 1-time heal and a bit quicker movement on a map.
Also the perk has counters while being carried or right after downing (killer can drop into hit or hit again - the perk freezes you in animation in both cases). So it's not just about completing gens. It's also about luck.
Jolt being only M1 perk - which removes a lot of killers that just down do M1 hits enough (think bubba, blight, wesker, huntress, ...) artificially lower the percentage. So 20% pick rate on killer (where every killer has different kit that synergize with different kind of perks) is arguably more problematic, then 30% on a single-type survivors.
Meaning you can either go by stats and nerf both perks, or go by playing both sides, experiencing those perks and seeing how they don't work a lot of time (compared to your opposing team that only notices when it works). Because I can do the same - the perk is super unhealthy as it does 24% insta damage+regression+info when playing gideon and all this for every single down. That's clearly OP and needs nerfs (but let's ignore locker grabs or any other grab or having the perk on mother's dwelling).
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The only issue w the killer is, that ppl don't know how to play him yet. Coconut was able to play him very well on PTB (before buff). His "problem" is best described in this video:
https://youtu.be/Y86UCIKmv3k -
@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453660#Comment_3453660
Correct, it's pickrate increased slowly but steadily for the last couple of months. And thats also why the perk gets more and more problematic, when all run it and don't bother to slow down for healing.
That's why I thought about how the perk could be adjusted without hitting it too hard.
The reason for that is not buffs to adren. The reason is, that everything else gets nerfed. The same can be said about jolt. Is it OP now? It has very high pick rate right now. Should be nerf it based on numbers? No. It didn't change. It's same strength as it always was. It's just that everything else was nerfed to the ground. Same thing for adren as for jolt
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Most basic flashlight is yellow. Most basic map is green. Most basic key is green.
Yes rarities don't make sense a lot of times. Some killers have best addons that are brown or yellow (ghostface, knight, twins), while others have insane iri/purple addons (blight, meyers, pinhead, spirit, ...). At this point, I think you should take it as it is and just roll with it.
Very similar thing for items. Brown medkit and yellow flashlight are by a huge margin better then both green (or even pink) map and key
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453554#Comment_3453554
Hmm, the EMP range doesn't reach the basement?
I create pod on one side of stairs and wait at the other. All stairs are already very narrow so if I am able to create any object in the way, then they are 100% fully blocking with no way around them. This makes it easy to down rescued survivor during his borrowed time. No thanks. It doesn't sound healthy. Especially if killer can create multiple of those (so I need whole team go for a single rescue and each of them has to have another EMP, because killer can click once?)
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424821#Comment_3424821
Sorry for a late response, but I honestly still disagree. I have seen that video a while ago and am hesitant on a lot of his placements myself. I feel like the "killer-sided" maps are actually the fairer ones, while the survivor-sided ones are straight up survivor-sided.
Perhaps you play killer more then survivor then? I don't know what else I can say to that
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My 3 games against singularity perfectly sums up the experience. First 2 were snooze fest, because people didn't know how to play him. 2nd killer was even so bad, he tried to shoot me with gun when not even slipstreamed. First one just tried to create web of pods around the map and was surprised, when I destroyed them.
3rd killer felt uncounterable though. He was chasing, he was creating pods as he was running, there was always some pod from the opposite direction and there were never enough EMP's and they were just not printing quickly enough. That one was a stomp and I felt there was nothing I could have done. As a 4man SWF team...
The killer is very difficult to play. But when he is played right, he feels much closer to C33 blight then to trapper. People that struggle with him are just clueless (which is not an insult - the killer is difficult and literally brand new. Watch some streamers that already have huge success with him, before you judge him)
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Perfect for camping e.g. basement (but basically every staircase). No I don't like this one bit.
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452326#Comment_3452326
Nice strawmanning.
As I already mentioned, the HUD changes make it more consistent of capitalizing the "ignore exhaustion" effect (aka triggering double sprints). Before only swf / voice could do this, now everyone can (although swf is still better at this). The "ignore exhaustion" effect had it's place before the HUD update, just for making the perk overall more consistent to use. But now, thats really not necessary, bc you can SEE when it will proc in the HUD.
Also, were in the world is my proposed change "nerfing it to the ground"? The heal stays the same, the sprint stays the same (when it triggers). It's explicitly a change to prevent a very annoying "tech" (using it for double speed) thats part of old dbd, but does not have a place in current dbd anymore. Just compare this to Blood Rush, a perk DESIGNED for something like double speed, and how hard that is to pull off (could use a buff for sure). Last but not least, removing the ignore effect would require some more skill / planning to use Adre and other exhaustion perks together.
So, tell me why this is "too much" for you? About "moving goalpost", the addition of the HUD icons effectively DID move the Adre goalpost as well, albeit very minor. The game evolves, perks, addons and powers have to be adjusted over time. And Adre dodged adjustments for long enough, really (last change was patch 1.8.1).
Because exactly this:
@Annso_x said:
Adrenaline is fine. I'm not sure why you bring Blood Rush into this, no one uses it specifically because it has too many conditions. If anything Blood Rush should get a buff but Adrenaline doesn't need a nerf.
Solo q survivors being able to pull off things that were only possible in swf is a good thing.
Plus also - every perk is suddenly OP and needs nerf as long as the previous one gets nerfed. That's what I call moving goalpost. A year ago the perk was exactly the same and nobody even mentioned the perk. HUD didn't add anything to the perk. It just added ability to use the exactly same perk not even to the same capacity as SWF can.
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@Exerlin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452380#Comment_3452380
If you control exactly when the perk uses its tokens, it could be strong on any killer. 80% bonus lunge range is no joke, but in the perk's current state, it's a bad joke. There are actually a lot of places in my matches where the lunge range would net me a hit that otherwise I wouldn't have gotten. It's just that the times where I actually have a token available, a normal lunge is required, or I don't get the hit, making me use the token or play badly.
I do like @DaddyMyers_Mori 's idea too, but it doesn't fix the perk's issue at its core. What's your opinion on combining our two ideas together? Would you feel like that would be too strong?
IMO - It would potentially still work. But it's dangeriously close to too strong. Maybe that would be in line with that "let's watch it and maybe nerf it after".
Otherwise I agree with your assessment.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452396#Comment_3452396
I am more bothered by that terrible profanity filter.
Let me disable that, I can survive reading few insults...
Seems pathetic you can't write kill in game about killing...
especially considering it sometimes censors nonsensical things. Like I have seen "gg" being censored. The strange thing is, that it's not even consistent.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452386#Comment_3452386
Or at least allow chat being hidden by default.
You can already hide it permanently if you want.
Cool. I didn't know that. Endgame chat does not bother me
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@GravelordNito99 said:
Hi,
I just played the first game of DBD I've played in months. I have 1.3k hours and I'm a killer main.
I came to play the new killer, going for his adept achievement. Every single lobby is filled with 15,000+ hour survivor teams where all of them have at least 3k hours.
So why am I being pitted against survivors who all individually have more than double my hours, every game, after having not played for months, on a completely new killer?
Don't get me wrong. I win almost every single game still despite the massive odds against me. Survivors play survivor for a reason, after all, since the role requires no skill. So they're super easy to beat unless it's a swf. But that doesn't make it fun that I have to face teams with 15x my hours every single game. It's so sweaty and stressful to keep up. There should be mmr decay, and lower mmr on new killers.
Also as an aside, I just ran into a game-breaking bug where I could not control the pods at all from the start of the game, making me just an m1 killer.
Fix your game.
Do I get it right?
I win all the games, but I still want even weaker opponents. MMR is not working correctly, because even though I still win, I don't want to even have to put an effort.
Talk about self-entitlement.
You are right though. MMR is not working correctly. If it was, you would be either the very best player, or you would have equal chance of winning or loosing the game (and quite frankly, I don't care if we are talking from killer's or survivor's perspective).
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I would first start with carrot and then with stick.
There were suggestions for players to be able to show gratitude by giving a few bp to other people. This would also help w end game chat.
If this is not enough, then maybe think about possible punishments after. Or at least allow chat being hidden by default.
I would go for any kind of ban system only after the other options just didn't work
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OP's suggestion is too weak (the perk would be still bad on anyone, but meyers and even he would probably rather take anything else), @Devil_hit11 's one just too strong. I would go with @DaddyMyers_Mori 's one, or simply add 2 tokens per gen (should be easy for devs).
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452221#Comment_3452221
I get wishing to avoid bad ping, but I've noticed they resist changes that lead to massive lobby dodging. And that dodging wreaks the matchmaking badly.
There is no easy solution to this.
So they rather people get fed up with game after experiencing 3rd game in a row, where you get total bullshit hit? Well that explains why this game just can't grow in numbers 😔
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452262#Comment_3452262
They don't want to work on gens because they run an incredibly common perk? Do people with sprint burst and adrenaline also avoid gens? I'm not following your logic here.
If they don't go into area without yellow, then they can't work on gens. Because it's easy to create deadzones around gens.
The map is tiny. You can always pressure part of it to create deadzone around live gens. Even if you are at the far end, it will take just a moment to get back...
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Moving goalpost again. Adrenaline was perfectly fine perk during old DH. The perk is good - the only thing is, that everything better was nerfed to the ground, so suddenly it's OP and needs nerf? Where's the end? Current buckle up?
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452256#Comment_3452256
Unfortunately 3/4 survivors have Windows and aren't gonna randomly run into an area without yellow auras.
That would suggest, that they don't want to work on gens. The map is basically loose 7gen already (hence you correctly said how strong jolt is here). It's so tiny, that it's on killer if he can't create deadzone in right spot
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3451737#Comment_3451737
As I mentioned before I would diversify the loops (removing pallets or weaken them and add a few windows.
Usually I am ok on the map as killer but it gets very hard if survivors use WoO or are generally very efficient while looping. Creating dead zones is hard because pallets are stacked on top of each other and because you can easily switch floors. Something that isn't the case for Midwich for example.
And your last statement is very true as I kept a Legion busy on 3 pallets left on Disturbed Ward for 4min securing us the win. I also remember a match on The Game where I looped a Myers for 3min while my remaining teammate did the last 2 Gens. I have to admit that I would not have managed it without WoO though.
I agree that bad killers (as in killer players) will struggle very hard on the map.
But again - if you are aware of the map and create intelligent deadzones, the map is actually one of the better ones from killer's POV. Sure - it doesn't mean 100% win (there's no map in the game that is 100% win for either side), but this one is the easiest to use and reuse deadzones. Quite frankly - as survivor I would love it if they changed a few pallets for windows and made them weaker. As a killer tho - why do you want to rob me of my easy wins? :D I mean - when I am close to hard pip I just want to earn, the game (or midwitch) is one of my favorite options...
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3451737#Comment_3451737
Well, you're absolutely wrong. Ghostie has a better time than most because it's an indoor map so easy to sneak up on people, spirit twins Wesker have an easy time became they're A+ tier killers. It takes a lot to get them down in general.
But clown and dredge? Come on. Vs any but the most braindead survivors you're having a very very difficult to borderline impossible game. Vs clown people just predrop and you have to chew through fifteen God pallets before you get to do anything and ooops, game over. Dredge is in a worse place because there aren't any lockers toward the middle of the map and remnant is worthless with so many connected loops. Drop remnant, they leave to the next connected loop. Like clown you've gotta chew through God pallets left and right but unlike clown you've got no way to hinder people holding W away from you. When I load into the game as one of those killers I've already mentally written it off as a loss. Survivors are not burning Game offerings to send me to a map where they are at a disadvantage because they feel like being nice. Even a lot of the filler pallets are way safer than you'd think at first blush.
The only good thing to be said about the game is that surge is excellent on it. If you get survivors who actually greed instead of dropping every pallet in the world and get consistent downs it's pretty easy to start a surge snowball.
I don't mind it. You just need to leave a chase and keep in mind where your deadzone is (and not create it where there are no more gens - if survivor brings you there, you just leave it) - you just can't create map-wide deadzone.
And as for the killers - I don't have any game offering on both legion and bubba already. Dredge is not as bad as you make it sound, you just need to be aware that you are much stronger at bottom then on top (because lockers). Clown can abuse deadzones very very good - but again - you need to be aware of them and make use of them well...
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In my experience the game is generally already killer sided. Not in every case, not all the time, but it's small, has barely any good window (and I mean good. Not awesome or god window) and is very fixed with tons of hooks, but it still suffers from inside-map syndrome, where survs just can't find and work on gens.
If I struggle a few games, I take legion, bubba, nurse (i would also take nemesis, but I don't have him), for very very very good chance to win.
But I feel good on the map with clown, ghostface, twins, dredge spirit or wesker. In my mind, gideon is without a doubt killer sided.
But it is true, that I just won't run behind someone for 5 gens, never leaving him. It's very easy to loose that way.
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Perks are meant to provide an advantage to the user of the perk. This one works for a few seconds during start of the match and probably never again (maybe it will extend aura of another perk/addon, but every additional second is less important then the starting second). It doesn't need any nerfs IMO.
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@Ithiria said:
Is there any game that handles high latencies like this well? Networking like this usually is making explicit decisions rather than just being like... badly made.
"Fixing" it would probably make the game very unfair for a high latency killer, which also isn't good and will hurt innocent people who aren't exploiting VPNs for an advantage. Right now, survivors do teleport around a bit when you have high ping, but hitting them feels normal.
Really not sure how a game fixes VPN abuse without hurting innocent people, maybe that is the best option though.
The game is designed around mindgames and reaction - how is it fair if you see killer moving in some direction half a second later then intended (he's 2m closer to you then what you see)? The answer is - you don't. You just get damage. And VPN is just artificial way how to make it even more favoring killer.
Also - people with bad internet can actually at least try to fix their net, but have no cheap way how to make the game unfair FOR them. People with good internet can use VPN to artificially make their net worse which is very easy and very rewarding. It's like making cheating easy to do and deliberatelly not doing anything about it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450120#Comment_3450120
it is that strong. one of aspects that perk entirely reverts is 10% pallet break speed and 10% less recovery/less sprint burst. The survivor make more distance per pallet break and make go further with their health-states because they're moving faster. Both of aspects that buff holding-w in the game. Dark theory also does this but its major issue as I said is limited radius of boon. Running forward is difficult when the only area you have to work with is 24 meters. If only dark theory was 40 meters then dark theory would also buff holding-w.
There's literally 0 point in arguing. It will go live. It will get it's 6% usage rate and then you can check back at this message how OP it is. Also - adrenaline is very good but not OP. Still it's one of a few really good perks - 32%. MfT will not come even close
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450858#Comment_3450858
I think he more means just how falling works, not being stunned after landing
Well it's part of the game and it can even be used against killers - they can't really turn it off or change direction mid-air. When using balanced, you can get extra distance twice - from that sprint and from killer baiting and forcing him to fly distance away from you
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If it's not huntress or bubba, I love this map as a killer. There are not many easier maps then this. Also 3gen around main hallway is easy to defend.
I don't think map size is the problem for survivors. It's 3gen and choke-point at hallway. Otherwise the map is ok.
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@Dark_Alex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450068#Comment_3450068
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449833#Comment_3449833
The thing about Scavenger is that it differs from PTB in three ways:
1) it takes +1 skill (which is quite minor, but a nerf)
2) after the activation, the repair speed is reduced by 50% for something like 30-40s.
3) The perk can now be used theoretically an infinite number of times.
Number 2 sounds scary, BUT if you repair by yourself first and insert the toolbox at the end, you can spend the next 30 seconds looking for a new generator, healing, unhooking, running away or doing everything, that isn't a gen... And then with a full stack of Stake Out you come to the generator, hit the 5, restore the toolbox, insert, repeat...
Your words that the perk is not a genrush sound ridiculous now, don't they?
Well, even the Clown and the Doctor don't laugh about it.
Which is exactly what I wrote. The perk effectively gets you out of gen - possibly even slowing the game down - for benefit of doing gen in burst. That makes it more in line with potential energy instead of hyperfocus. So no. It's not genrush. It's burst repair perk.
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"whenever I see killer in my 4man bully squad and he is not able to do anything, he just goes to corner and afk's which ruins my fun. I demand you punish said killer for it".
That's about how I read your thread. You are forcing other people to play out the game for your enjoyment, demanding punishments if they don't oblige.
Nobody should be forced to play the game for your benefit no matter what side we are talking about
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
It's not limited to 5 uses though since it works with blessing now too. It doesn't need any more buffs imo, it's already pretty good.
The perk has whooping 1% usage rate. Just to illustrate - empty perkslot has above 5% usage rate. Yes. That's how "good" overzelous already is.
If you solo whole gen with it, you save just a little above 8s - but you have to invest 14s on totem (+travel +search time) first. And if the killer does not camp or tunnel, you will probably get hit, before you get ~82s on a gen.
For the perk to actually net you positive result, you need to solo 2 gens - and this still disregards the risk of deactivation. Most survivors don't get to solo 2 gens...
The perk is just not good. It can be ok if killer brings good hexes that need to be cleansed anyway and if you use inner healing (you can split search+cleanse time). But even in this niche it's not like very good.
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I am pretty convinced the perk would be very OP.
A, Like plaything you get 4 hexes from single perk - where cleansing them on their own is considerable slowdown.
B, but you have to cleanse them, otherwise you can block all gens.
C, pentimento value is guaranteed - a lot of better survivors bite thru plaything just for fear of pentimento - you don't have that luxury here
D, and on top of that it also provides repair debuff.
E, totem is protected for 90s, so even in full SWF when totem spawn is called precisely, survivor will just have to walk across half a map. The perk blocked most progressed gen, so it will kick someone out and will be felt - so to minimize downtime unhooked (aka juicy target for tunnel) person needs to run to it injured and fix it - so you need to add about 30s walk time to 14s cleanse time
F, camping with this is insane, because as long as you camp, you have blocked most progressed gen.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450147#Comment_3450147
I personally think there should be some game mechanic that does something about gen rushing. Just a Little bump in the road.
A little bit of slug, a good chase for hook, injury here or there and suddenly nobody is on gens. You don't even need perks for that.
On the other hand if you just tunnel single survivor, then 3 survivors have nothing but gens to worry about.
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What? That sounds really bad.
Basically it would mean that if i am 4man and misplay in any way, I can just reset match if I ask my friends.
What's fair about that?
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/378484/killers-get-away-with-everything
Play killer, please.
Survivors as it way easier than you'd think.
Just start pre-dropping pallets and rushing gens and you'll do fine.
No need to learn how to loop anymore, just vault the many 2nd floor windows and you'll get away scot free every times.
If they camp just do gens, 3 escape is still a survivor win.
If you do this as survivor and you still win, then killer has 50hrs or less. Just dropping pallets without greeding does not work on any map against any killer (even if stubborn completionist pure m1 killer on borgo comes close - but that's already a huge misplay on killer's side).
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While I think most hex perks need buff in a way of them not being lit up until they actually do something, dhope is very rare exception that is already strong enough (even if RNG-heavy).
I don't think dhope specifically needs any buff.
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Well I don't know. Maybe I really can't communicate. So I will try to contrast the points directly next to each other. Maybe that will help.
you should be forced to drop what you're currently doing and go through a non productive period or don't receive the benefit until you do
- Activating Scavenger will reduce your Generator repair speed by -50 % for 40/35/30 seconds.
make the game go faster
- repair speed by -50 %
Perks like Scavenger exacerbate the issue just like perks CoB, Overcharge, Older versions Ruin had the potential to do in the other direction.
How? As was demonstrated, the perk does not speedup gen repair (no more then those 2 seconds). So how does it change variability? At most it allows bursting the gen. But that's still not FASTER REPAIR SPEED. Because the perk got INSANE 50% malus.
I absolutely understand PTB version of the perk was problem (to be fair - I thought it was fine expecting only a few seconds boost, but when I looked up numbers I quickly realized how wrong I was. It was busted and it was unfair and it's good the perk got changed. Provided video from coconut was spot on at that time). But giving effective -15s penalty is a guarantee, that the efficiency is basically unchanged compared to not bringing this perk (meaning leaving the perk slot empty - and again, I am only counting repair gens efficiency instead of game efficiency where someone needs to go for unhooks or heal or things like that - but all the perks are meant to give some advantage and both sides do get some value from perks at least conditionally). The only difference is, that you can now repair gens in shorter burst, which means gen regression perks have less time to be applied. Without this malus, each instance of this perk basically shortened the game by 17s. Now it's 2s and in all practical terms the perk is the same-ish as built to last - you don't get extra efficiency from it, but you do get burst repairs.
On the other hand old eruption, CoB, ruin and OC were pure regress. They were not regress now and later complete the gen for survivors on it's own - those perks never got malus (which is logical). They just got their efficiency so much reduced, that it's not even worth to bring them. If they regressed the gen for later progression (or effectively the same thing of speed boost when repairing the gen again by survivors), then it would work like current version of scavenger
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450068#Comment_3450068
Did I mention genrushing? No. You're in such a hurry to defend the perk you're not even paying attention to what I said.
It's not about using the toolbox immediately, it's about the fact that you can REPLENISH THE DANG THING WITHOUT NEEDING TO GET OFF THE GEN. It should be held to the same function as flashbangs and built to last as that would mean that survivors needed to stop working and to go through a small downtime period. It serves as a better efficiency cap than just saying "lol 50% repair speed for 30 seconds surely isn't a benefit". The diminished return is still a return being able to continue your up time of doing just GENERAL REPAIR WITHOUT THE TOOLBOX WHILE GAINING CHARGES FOR YOUR TOOLBOX IS OVERLY EFFICIENT.
The true limiting factor of this perk is the great skill check requirements rather than 50% cut to gen repair speed because as I said that can be mitigated. So I'm looking at it from a stand point of we're not actually getting a 50% cut but instead depending on the scenario and the loadout of your team mates we could be getting a 50% or less, like 45% or 40% depending on how Scavenger interacts with other perks during that 30 second period. Like if you hard capped during period and the game won't let any other perk act as a mitigating factor the it's moot. It'd still be a return that I disagree with, but it would have consistency which is preferred. If it can be mitigated then the question is to what degree because if the perk says 50%, but with the right combination of perks spread across the rest of your team that 50% is in reality more like 40% or god forbid less than 40% it would be problematic.
Brown Toolboxes is still so it does give something. Also one extra toolbox is kind of bigger deal than you're wanting to give it credit for considering toolboxes are and have been unbalanced for a very long time. Now why do I care this much about it? Because I strongly feel we should keep adding perks to the game that mess with consistency of how a trial is paced. The game can swing between going too fast to being absolutely punishing cause nothing seems to get done fast enough. Borked on both sides, but at least with killers it isn't as borked as used to be because most regression perks have been flattened out. The same can't be said for survivors' repair speed perks and items. So yes, I want survivors to have tangible hard cut to their efficiency and the best way to have that is to make them get of have to get in a locker for bit.
if you do your gen "normally", it doesn't change anything. The perk is good to buy you "free" time, that you just can't reasonably insert into doing gens. Meaning - if you can heal self/someone, it's worth it. If you can unhook, it's worth it. If you need to do your challenge - you don't really waste team's time that much (well you waste 50% of normal time). If you need to loot chest for some good reason (hoping for self-heal) it's not THAT bad. If you use the time to continue working on the gen, then you just wasted perk slot.
But let's not be theoretical. Let's do math. Best toolbox in the game saves you 17.33s (that's commodius with scraps and spool AKA yellow and brown charges). 30s of repair at 50% speed means you just lost 15s of gen progress. So this whole perk gives you at best awesome 2.33s on gens. That's worthy of perk slot isn't? To be fair, you get more skillchecks. So if you play hyperfocus, then maybe it's usable. But generally - even resilience will buy you more time and is better perk. So no. In reality if you don't want to change the perk to basically give you meager 2.33s, you absolutely NOT continue to work on a gen, because that way you get full downtime from the perk - turning the perk to in best case very niche (something for hyperfocus genrush build just to abuse more skillchecks only) and in worst case to the worst positive-result gen-repairing perk in whole game.
As for your brown toolbox - let's totally forget moving time, because that would just kill your idea then and there. Rummaging takes 6s. But brown toolbox will save you whooping 5.33s. Net result? You just lost 0.67s just by taking the item out. So no. The rummage part is absolutely and irredeemably bad if you are talking about "genrush" potential and you actively loose something if you try to take advantage of it no matter the circumstances if we are talking efficiency. In fact the only reasonable usage is to use it as (a very very slow) sabotage toolbox for 2 uses OR if you want to "burst" that gen, because it's 90% done and you see killer running at you from distance (but again, you only got to this situation, because you decided it's good idea to rummage said toolbox instead of being on the gen).
So to sum up. The perk barely hits any positive efficiency if you want to sit on a gen from start to end. You are much more likely to get benefit from basically any other genspeed perk over this one. The only real benefit this perk gives you in terms of efficiency is when there's stuff to be done outside of repairing gen during it's reduced efficiency time. Overall outside of hyperfocus niche build, this perk almost does more harm then good if your goal is to only repair gens as fast as possible.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449306#Comment_3449306
I mean to be fair I could also expand that to all normal-ish M1 Killers as well. Two sub-issues though, first Garden and Borgo rely on Bloodlusting the weaker filler pallets, and not the separate re-deadzoned chase (as there are no large enough areas without pallets). Also Oni specifically is more feast or famine than other Killers though. I just mean that similarly to how I call bad Ghosties 'Chasefaces', it was indistinguishable from a few posts whether this was the equivalent or something else.
Makes sense.
And yes. Garden and borgo are pain for killers (IMO borgo is just pain for both sides, but it's still surv sided)
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Made for this shouldn't be some balancing standard.
It's busted and will get nerfed.
It shouldn't be balancing perk. But it isn't. I am pretty sure it's not so strong as you make it sound to be
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450103#Comment_3450103
Main issue of deadlock for me is how bad it is with other perks. You can't use pop, pain resonance, eruption, jolt etc. anything that damages gen, you always risk it's going to be wasted, because Deadlock was activated.
Only combo that works for me is Deadlock, No way out.
YES. That's why I don't usually run it. Pain res is IMO better option. You are absolutely right
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450075#Comment_3450075
you can counter deadlock, it's not always decent.
When we play against deadlock we keep one gen 99 (some save zone, where killer can't easily kick it), so we lose 0 time on deadlock for rest of the game.
I don't really like that perk on most killers, it's passive slowdown you don't have to do anything for it, but it's limited. I use it in only few builds, where I want focus only on chase and ignore gens.
I know. I do the same in SWF. Not really possible in solo tho -.- Also you need to keep some corner gen at 99%, otherwise you risk it being regressed to 0 (killer always knows which gen it is - he just needs too much time to patrol it). But sure. It's unearned stall that can be countered with little team knowledge.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450002#Comment_3450002
2 of those suck and 1 is decent.
2 of those suck if you are not doctor. 1 is always decent
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449994#Comment_3449994
The problem isn't them trying to use the toolbox during the reduced period it is the fact they don't have to stop doing the gen to get charges on their toolbox. It's an efficiency problem which is why I said diminishing returns are still returns.
Every other item perk that gives you a new item or restocks the charges on your item makes you actively stop doing what your doing and go spend time doing something else. Scavenger still allows you to have uptime on repairs but a slower rate for 30 seconds, but that really doesn't matter since 50% repair speed that can be mitigated means not much was truly lost in efficiency.
On top of letting you rummage for another toolbox.
those -50% means it's not genrush. 30s not being able to effectively work on gen = it's NOT a genrush perk. Means if you use the toolbox immediately, then you just wasted it. So no diminishing returns. It just is NOT genrush. It's burst repair. That's it. If you use your toolbox to "mitigate" -50% malus, then you don't have toolbox once the malus runs out so you wasted perkslot for NOTHING.
Not to mention, that you don't get skillcheck every 2s, so you will not get like 10 refreshed toolboxes anyway (most of the time you can realistically expect 1 extra toolbox from this perk).
And rummage is most wasted stuff - brown toolbox gives nothing....
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449833#Comment_3449833
Where others see junk, you see valuable improvised tools.
While holding a depleted Toolbox, Scavenger activates:
- Succeeding at Great Repairing Skill Checks grants 1 Token, up to a maximum of 5.
- Reaching the maximum number of Tokens automatically consumes them and fully recharges the Toolbox.
- Activating Scavenger will reduce your Generator repair speed by -50 % for 40/35/30 seconds.
Scavenger grants the ability to rummage through an opened Chest once per Trial and will guarantee a basic Toolbox
It's not that huge and the offset can be somewhat itself be offset. Diminishing returns are still returns and the only real limiting factor is hitting great skill checks which while nearly impossible for new and low skill players is something fairly common for intermediate and high skill players as long as they don't have dead cat reflexes or lackluster internet connection.
You literally get 0 effect if you repair during that 30s with said toolbox. You just burn it down for no reason. So no. It does nothing for genrush. Now it's only good for repair bursts. -50% for 30s does exactly that...
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449529#Comment_3449529
Eh, the spirit example isn’t a great one since chase music stops when you use your power specifically so you can hear them.
Yes it does. That's the reason why I can tell the difference (what would happen if they lowered volume of chase music) without problems. Also her ability still makes (much more quiet) noise, so you still can't use all the faint noises
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@JakeCannon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3449735#Comment_3449735
I have played many survivor games with a few high level players , and it hasn't changed my view on tunneling.
Is It crazy annoying to be tunneled out ? Yes . Do I win without tunneling ? No , not in weeks.
"Is It crazy annoying to be tunneled out ? Yes."
So why do you want to take away the only defense against it? Also. If you don't try to learn macro and other things, then u can't get better at the game. I understand that hard tunneling helps, but it's not even most effective thing to do (soft tunneling is better, because you mitigate risk of choosing to tunnel best looper) - not to mention it's the most boring one (survivors either hold M1 whole game, or get removed from it before they get to play).
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We will see specific implementation, but I would wait and see how new anti-facecamping pans out. It's very possible, it will be enough
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@Devil_hit11 said:
I would like to see an item that teleport's the survivor out of danger. If developer have watch any Texas Massacre gameplay. In that game, there are Fountain Wells that survivor can drop to evade the killer.
What if there was an item that allowed you to teleport to somewhere such as locker further away then 40 meters. Perhaps item could only be used if the killer has no line of sight, allowing you to lose the killer.
Such a strong mechanics should not be bound to an item (or perk for that matter). Things like these should be basekit mechanics. And while it would be fun to have something like this, I am doubtful it could be implemented in a reasonable way - you would need to compensate killers quite a bit for this AND you would need to go thru all the maps to include the feature into them.
Like I love the idea. It would be something new and something interesting to play around - maybe even a fix for hard-tunneling. BUT. Sadly it would be too much work to do right.