Gandor
Gandor
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460352#Comment_3460352
That's somewhat connected with creating new genrush perks, which is connected with forced 3 perks per survivor/killer.
But it has nothing to do with slowdown perks, which they didn't made any new btw. Last decent perk killers got is Nowhere to hide. Rest is niche or complete trash.
Whole comment was about argument that killers should be fine when gens got nerfed to 90 seconds, but reality is clearly different.
I don't care about how used that perk is. WoO is most used perk by survivors, but it's effect is not oppressive against killer. So I don't see that perk as problematic.
well, I addressed only one aspect of your reply. I wasn't interested in those other parts
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460621#Comment_3460621
They want 60% average kill rate.
Thing is 50% kill rate would mean killer is mostly losing. As a killer, it's not really hard to get 1k with camping in end game unless you give up.
So basically results of the game are not really between 0-4, but 1-4.
drawing (2K) is not loosing. It's drawing. If you make this fine distinction, then 50% kill rate is actually fair. It's just thanks to killers convicing devs that draw = loose, that 60% kill rate "is fair".
@Dream_Whisper said:
The game's gen speeds are always probmatic, as for many average killers; it impossible to engage multiple Survivors in chase, seek many hooks instead of focusing on campin/tunneling for quick kills; as the Survivors objective is much slower. There needs to be another reward in injured/downing/hooking a Survivor.
A idea that I have in mind...
If the killer manages to hook Survivor A, they can go to any complete gen and kick it and take away 10%; to salvage the situation. Then they can repeat with a Survivor B, gain a extra 10% and so on with the next Survivor, Survivor C or Survivor D... Once everyone hook at least once, the killer can repeat the process again, but instead of Regression completely gens, they gain passive Gen speed penalty debuff, like 5% which can add up to maximize of 20% which each can last up to 60 second after each and every hook.
Such amazing Buff also comes with a amazing responsibility in managing your hooks; like... if you hook survivor A, then tunneling them afterwards; the rest of the Survivors get a small Buff of gen speed repair to punished you for tunneling more. If you also go for survivors B after hooking survivor A, then come straight back to Survivor A, the killer will get movement speed debuff.
Anyway to buff and give killers the ability to pressure the whole group of survivor with passive Regression and rewards for going for many hooks instead of kills; will be a step in the right direction. All while giving a advantage for Survivor agaisnt camping and tunneling killers. Of course, if all the Survivors are good at avoiding the killer in the first place, and not giving him any hooks; they will pressure the killer with no basekit regression.
Right now, without gen regression perks or decent killer slowdown powers; it sucks to chase a survivor and the other 3 survivor are busy working on multiple separate gens and knocking down two to 3 gens, before the killer can a down
Ah. The ultimate dream for 3gen campers. But you will loose your excuse - it will never ever be survivor's fault for a 3gen. It will always become killer's decision and spawn RNG
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Maybe I should clarify, because my stance is not the same as OP's. I think taking those protection hits is valid challenge. I think current doctor's, or the no mither one I posted previously should not be part of the game. If the challenge is about going out of your comfort zone (play differently, but in a valid way - say try to help your teammates to not get hooked or caught = take protection hits), then I have no problem with it. If the challenge basically asks you to choose between throwing the game and completing the mission (now it's clear why "take only no mither" or "blast survivors 56m away" challenges are things I have issue with) - that's the thing I call game ruiner.
In case of killer, it's little bit better - because the game is quickly "nullified" (there are still some chases, but you are not totally stuck). In case of the survivor's one - that quckly turns into 3v1 which is effectively very similar to just having someone DC - the difference is not super huge, but this one feels even worse for the other 3 survivors.
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@Alionis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460190#Comment_3460190
The wiki datamines every single numerical value you see on there, so that's very unlikely.
The default sabotage time for hooks is 3 seconds and Saboteur is supposed to reduce it to 2.5 seconds by increasing the action speed by 20%, hence why the progress bar is yellow.
What you're probably seeing here though is a side-effect of how DbD does animations. Most actions in DbD take effectively a teensy bit longer to complete than their values claim, simply because animation transitions are usually not accounted for.
A good example is the pallet-break action. If you time it with video footage, going frame by frame, you'll notice it'll take about 0.3 to 0.5 seconds longer until you regain full control of your character, rather than the 2.34 seconds the action should take based on its code.
Nope. It's not just transition that allows you to do anything after the fact. I can pretty reliably say it's most definitely good chunk more then 2.7s, after hit recovery time is 2.7s. A standard situation before patch 6.1, where this hit CD was changed from 3s to 2.7s was, that you could start and finish sabotage (without ability to do literally anything) right after bodyblocking hook into hook sabotage. Now you see a good bit of progress missing (that could account for 300ms) to do just that. However you can still manage to do this with alexis toolbox and double speed (in this case you are so quick, that you are able to even get away in case killer makes a small mistake). These are real-game experiences without even using said video and I can say this is the case with 100% certainty, as I realistically play around these things almost every single game.
Now about the video where you see it frame by frame:
https://youtu.be/dax6ZiFok-o?t=300 -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460341#Comment_3460341
Don't forget closing the hatch stats EGC too. Unless every last survivor you encounter escapes through the hatch you should be regularly seeing EGC.
But yes, that is my criticism of the Doc's challenge that you really need to use add-ons.
or go my way with dark devotion preferably with nemesis/game afoot and you don't need single addon (even if they do help)
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460280#Comment_3460280
How is that connected with nerfing most slowdown perks?
I don't want perks that affect mainly weak killers, or soloQ. Not really difficult concept. That's why I don't like MFT, that's why I considered eruption an issue and it's good to be nerfed.
Pop and Ruin were not bad for the game. Quite an opposite. Neither was Corrupt.
I don't really like their concept of 3 perks with each killer / survivor overall. I couldn't care less if they lowered it. Because of this system most perk are either trash fillers or broken. It's rare to see good and balanced perk. Sadly perks are what mainly sell DLC.
It's connected, because creating new "genrush" perk is the only thing that does not give them such a huge backlash as MfT did. Even though there are many perks that are used MUCH more that don't get even a hint of same backlash. So the only reasonable outcome is to pump-up more genrush perks or thrash things that nobody will ever equip.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459955#Comment_3459955
Because sabotage duration is long enough to the point just staying there makes it waste of time, and that is largely made from assumption wiggle meter regress quickly which wasn't the case, survivors can even move to pallet within that time anyway.
It doesn't really matter if killer decided to proxy camp slugged body because without counter perks it's guaranteed to get immediate down after pick up, it doesn't matter if killer decided to not do it because if then killers will just ignore it's existence and consider it as a pressure value, removing regression did nothing to help those while tremendously hurting last survivors by forcing killers to slug them.
Oh yeah. And also let's autodown flashsaved survivors too after some time. Because the alternative is just no good... This is absolutely bonkers. Hooks already spawn WAY too leniently for killers. The only exception can be named - and BTW midwitch from around patch 6.5 is not part of them (they added quite a hefty number of new hooks into that map).
How would you like it if survivors were able to say remove your perk after 3mins of game, because "you had enough time to use it already" - no matter if it's NOED or NWO... Your "idea" is about the same caliber.
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@uganda_calm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460297#Comment_3460297
thanks, great tip, gonna try this. I never even thought of Dark devotion.
My build was: calm II (+6m) + calm carters (+8m) + Distressing (+8m) + Monitor & abuse (+8m) for a total of 62 meters terror radius
But its exactly what i and OP were talking about, you have actively stay/run away from every survivor and i think even with your build you were really lucky to get it on first game. With my build i had 62 meters of terror radius and still only got up to 3 once in 5 games.
It wasn't that bad. I could have gotten even more then 5 in that game. I don't know how the perks work and if calm did anything (Dark devotion writes in itself, that TR will be 32m, so I have no idea if it got extended), but it basically always boiled down into every discharge having at least obsession scream. So my other perks were chase and stall (I remember I used deadlock and pain res and I think I also used bamboozle).
To the topic - yes. This one most definitely falls into category throw the game for a challenge
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/379950/hooks
Depending on the map, it's quite bad. On the silent hill map and dead dog saloon, you will experience the lack of hooks in certain regions of the map. Like near the water tower. Then you are forced to slug and watch it or search for the hatch and close it. Most of the time when the hook is far you are exposing yourself to a bodyblock save too. I dont like this mechanic because as a killer you need to keep watch of generators,survivors, survivors hook stages, survivors items, pallets broken, loops still with pallets, loops that connect to anothe loop. windows, breakable walls, boons, hexes, and Hooks. Not counting other worries that you will have while playing like pathing, bodyblocks, travel distance to a hook etc.
Hangmans trick old effect was super nice and now is almost useless as a perk because it got overnerfed.
Solution: Give hangmans trick the ability to restore hooks like before
You must be joking. DEAD DAWG SALOON? Sorry. But I am sure you have no idea what you are talking about.
My niche and the reason why I enjoy survivor the most is sabotaging hooks. Saboteur is my permanent perk that gets removed very rarely. I know all the hook placements and everything there is at this point. The one map that is THE toughest to hook in is most definitely saloon. Literally ANY other map is better for sabotages and every game where I managed to successfully sabotage hook in saloon is always huge pride of mine AND huge misplay on killer's side.
Survivor A can get downed just below the hook, killer can not notice said hook and go for the next one - you can successfully sabotage that next hook AND take the hit - chances are still quite high killer will be barely able to hook said survivor on yet another hook. This is special case for dead dawg and it's the case for 80% of the map (corners and main's little room on top floor are probably the only exceptions - and that main only if killer did not decide to break a wall allowing him to drop on a hook really quickly).
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I can't even remember last time a knight player that would forgo this addon...
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@uganda_calm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460210#Comment_3460210
there are challenges that force you to play "bad"
As killer there is a challenge to hook 4 survivors during the endgame collapse.
Out of my 10 last matches i got to the endgame collapse only once. And this was only because i let the survivor open the gate.
So either i am forced to let the survivors do all the gens or i have to play another 30 matches for just one challange.
Thats just not fair.
Same with the doctor challenge were you have to hit 5 survivors that are further than 48 meters away from you, in ONE SINGLE GAME.
You have to actively stay away from survivors to get this challenge, they force you to play badly. In 5 matches i only got up to 3. I had to spot 2 survivors working on a gen, then walk away 48 meters and then i could shock them.
So either i throw the game and walk away from any survivor i see or i play hundreds of matches and pray to the gods. And this is entirely based of luck.
And if those are CHALLENGES, luck should have to do near nothing with it.
A challenge should either take long (like gaining bloodpoints or hitting 12 survivors while they are exposed) or they should be hard to do (dont have an example for this ready), but just smashing your head against it for days and praying for it to happen should not be part of a challenge, in my opinion at least.
Just a little tip - for doc challenge, double calm and especially dark devotion helped me to do it in a single game. Ofc - that game ended in 4 out. Because running away from obsession for 25s and then blasting ignoring everything usually has that effect :D
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459913#Comment_3459913
They just nerfed almost all slowdown perks. While made new perks on gen speed.
Games are same or faster than before.
There is currently no perk even close to pop / ruin.
Ofc. What else is to be done? You create single chase perk that has better numbers than dark theory and everyone screams nerf hammer - you included. It's much safer to create yet another useless "genrush" perk (scavenger) that will worst-case need to be butchered into obscurity (current version) - because the alternative (it being actually good) is game breaking (as was the PTB version of the perk).
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Here we go again. Moving goalpost again. It's best survivor perk now, because everything else got nerfed. So perfectly OK perk is now absolutely insane and should have been hard nerfed yesteryear...
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460206#Comment_3460206
If you're not up to the challenge of only running No Mither and nothing else, and if that to YOU that would be throwing the game and negatively affecting your team mates, then don't take up the challenge. Leave it to those who are able to run No Mither and not throw the game.
Well that's the thing. I can do that. It will just take 10 games. Meaning 30 survivors will curse me and blame me for their game lost... If I do this in soloQ - it will explain why this game mode sucks the most out of every possible way to play the game.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460203#Comment_3460203
Refer to the rest of my post.
Also there's one thing taking full meta and the other thing taking exactly 1 perk that is worse then taking no perks at all... I don't mind challenges that take you out of your comfort zone (stun killer, blind him, sabotage hook, take protection hit or two, use a specific perk even if not really good), but there are challenges, that are just throwing the game (where no mither is prime example, but there are others like this).
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460201#Comment_3460201
A challenge you're imposing on other people, so no.
Using whatever perk setup you want, whether that's one that will give you an advantage, or one that will test you, is your choice to make.
Or are we going to claim that not using meta perks is 'throwing the game' too?
You can function perfectly well with no perks at all, it all depends on yours and your opponents skill.
How is taking no mither challenge different? It's A challenge you're imposing on other people (and yourself as well).
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460189#Comment_3460189
A challenge. You don't have to do it, but if you do attempt it, then it's going to be difficult.
But I'm not surprised that a playbase who complains that "my opponent is winning too much" instead of just getting better at the game wouldn't understand this.
Well. The thing is, that provided your point of view is norm, then there should be no DC penalty.
From same POW - Going DC is not spoiling the game for the 4 remaining players, but "A challenge" that's going to be difficult and people should stop complain or they should just get better at the game...
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@Rizzo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460185#Comment_3460185
I'm not blaming the community, I'm simply stating that the numbers changing on the Wiki don't always reflect changes happened in game.
I didn't mean it literally :) Sorry for my wording. All I meant to say is, that the wiki has it wrong most probably because the actual game has it wrong. I chose bad words for that one. My bad
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@Seraphor said:
No challenges require you to throw the game, you only do this if you're desperate to get it within one game, which isn't the point, they're supposed to be challenging.
What is this then?
Challenges that force you to throw to some degree are quite common actually
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@Rizzo said:
As Alionis already explained, the wiki is ran by the community, if they change descriptions or numbers it's because they might have noticed their numbers were off.
Now regarding the topic at hand, if you notice an unintended behaviour, could be a bug and it's worth reporting it.
I would not blame community that much though. The perk has this exact same wrong description/behavior also in game
I can also provide video showing framecount where it's clearly visible, that it takes 3s instead (I have done so already in one of the threads). Or if you want, I can create specifically bug for it - as it's true I left this in feedback section only (because I was suggesting change to make this description actually true, or to split difference to 2.7s instead)
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I think healthy hook grabs should stay - but only in endgame. During the match if killer proxy camps and zones people out, injures someone and then tries to grab healthy person... That's just not fair if he gets it. It's too much RNG pressure and it feels so unfair.
During EGC where there's nothing, but securing kill - it's perfectly valid. Killer is hard-pressed already and in disadvantage if at least 2+hooked survivors are alive. Healthy grab in that scenario is perfectly valid IMO.
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@Alionis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460171#Comment_3460171
Just an fyi, the wiki isn't run by the devs, there's no "silently updating" the wiki description by them, that stuff happens when the wiki editors notice something amiss. The devs have said themselves that patch notes don't always catch all the changes that happen behind the scenes.
Also, the wiki editors have a general rule to not mention bugs outside of some very rare special cases, as people often forget to remove those mentions once the bugs get fixed (and it's not always clear if something's a bug or a shadow change).
Thanks for this note. I thought, that wiki is ran by devs. This explains things
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This case might really be unintended behavior, but they indeed do things like this. Let's look at perk saboteur. The intended change in update 6.1 was to highlight scourge hooks in yellow color (they even wrote so in patch notes). But then either bug, or deliberate change made it so, that you no longer see auras if it's you that is being carried to hook. I think the idea behind it is to nerf SWF information, but it nerfs the perk in soloQ too (because setup is everything for saboteur and knowing where you should go to make the sabotage in time without showing your scratchmarks and going for correct (usually scourge) hook is paramount). There was no mention for this anywhere. The only thing that happened is, that their wiki got changed AFTER the fact so, that the perk now states it activates if ANOTHER survivor is being carried. Sometimes even this is not enough. And this exact same perk is the best example. Devs absolutely ignore the fact, that the perk takes 3s to sabotage hook and keep 2.5s in all descriptions. There's a thread created for it (by me - for example see here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/344909/saboteur-correction ) without any ackowledgement from devs and there's wiki stating it takes 2.5s (see here: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Saboteur#6.1.0 )
The bottom line is - devs have absolutely 0 problem doing silent changes like this. And the only way to know if it's bug or not is looking at wiki if they silently update the description, or if they rarely acknowledge the bug instead. Ignoring specific case OP mentioned - the basic premise is spot on and devs should really take note and inform us openly about things.
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@nars said:
Pinky finger and iri head are both mid addons that typically just make the killer worse (unless you are a sniping god on huntress). Tombstone is understandable though. Their addon design has become increasingly uncreative in recent years, with at least half the killers having some kind of instadown addon.
They are bad for general gameplay, but they are insane for camping scenario. Especially in basement, but it works insanely good on hills too. Pinky finger more so then iri head. The only counter is to accept one survivor will just die and genrush for 3 out. Considering 3 out is survivor win, there are thankfully not that many killers willing to play that (and that's the only reason why these addons are OK).
Tombstone piece on the other hand - is just pure unfair and the only saving grace is, that killer doing so will probably depip even though he will probably get 3-4K.
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Well. Don't nerf it. I love it when survivors use this perk against me. They legit never get value - and I can count about 3x where it gave value (both from wiggling into side of a hook or doors and barely not making it into hook, because somebody also helped some survivor - think bodyblock in one of the cases and hook sabotage in the other).
a, if you are aware of the hook spawns, the aura blocking does basically nothing (and you can very easily predict hook spawn based on auras of far-away hooks + known spots)
b, you CAN drop with active boil over. You just can't wait and then drop. The thing is the bonus wiggle is from current wiggle progress - which is basically 0 right after pickup
c, you can catch rhythm of boil over's wiggling - if you do this right, you actually can get to hook faster then when BO is not equipped - in this case BO works a little bit like aggitation.
d, if you actually can't really make it, because all else failed, you can just make survivor wiggle free next to a drop - this will stagger said survivor so you can catch him within like 5m distance. Very easy thing and you can do that very reliably (when you know survivor is 70% wiggled off, you just hit drop button when on the edge of a drop for instant wiggle free into drop).
e, slugging is perfectly valid answer to this. Their report means nothing. It would be the same as you reporting them for "toxic gameplay abuse". It's not. You just countered that in suboptimal way.
I would actually argue flip-flop is stronger perk then boil over. Because even though BO "works" in soloQ, flip-flop+power stuggle in SWF (duo is enough and you can pull this off in soloQ if you can look obvious enough to bait killer in a wrong way) can get value MUCH more reliably. You just need your friend to threaten pallet drop/flash save for you in a way that killer does not instantly pick up. There's much less actual defense against this (you can chase the other person and leave 1st person slugged - or you can pick the other survivor quickly enough so that no other survivor can come quickly enough - both of which are quite risky).
Overall even flip-flop+power struggle most of the time are not worth it, because you don't do gens quickly enough = you end up bleeding out and killer will probably win (after frustrating game for him)
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@nars actually gave some pretty sound advice.
The thing that were not mentioned considering actual chase:
1, victor is hard-countered by very short loops (think sanctum of wrath's figurines - trees are a little too narrow, but they can work too (you just need good reflexes when victor double backs to the opposite side), single rocks are mostly too wide, but they can also work sometimes). The idea is, that Victor can either run very quickly, or he can charge his pounce. But he can't do both at the same time. And while he is charging, he's super slow. So going around these objects when Victor is hunting you basically guarantees, he won't be able to jump to you before you can hide behind the obstacle.
2, pallets works awful and great against victor at the same time. To explain - dropping pallet holds you in animation and most victors will have enough time to charge their pounce to jump at you. So dropping for stuns is generally very bad idea that backfires almost always (similar to nurse actually - you can pull it off, but you will most likely get hit instead). On the other hand, pre-dropping works insanely good. Victor can't move thru pallet. He can only jump over it. So if you are not directly in the line-of-sight, he will need to go around loop (giving you time to vault on the other side to repeat everything), or jump thru the pallet (which leaves him very vulnerable to be kicked, or at least for you to vault back). This does not work on every loop, because sometimes victor can pounce on both sides of pallets from some spot, but say jungle gyms work very much in your favor for predrops (you still need to be aware, if you have slow reaction, then Victor will still hit you - but the odds are in your favor).
Good luck in the future :) Twins are definitely one of those killers that can be countered if you know what to do
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Twins are indeed very strong against survivors, that don't know how to play against her. But this killer is hard countered by knowledge, SWF (or at least game sense in whole team), stairs, lockers (if you can create distance), healthy survivor (that knows to bodyblock), keeping victor hostage, and so on.
The killer is actually quite hard to play right once you (and your team) know what to do. There are huge number of counterplays against her. And actually her long CD's are IMO the main reason, why you barely ever see this killer.
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IDK. This thread seems so absurd, as calling cowshed killer sided.
When I absolutely want to win the game as killer, 1st choise is midwitch, 2nd choise is the game (especially if I can make a build for it), 3rd choise is RPD.
Lery's is also extremely good - but I will grant you that this one depends on killer (perfect map for ghostface and meyers, but generally most/all M1 killers do well on it as it's the smallest map in the game I think - if we consider whole walking area so vertically counts).
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According to nightlight, the perk has 3,9% usage already (and this is still too high considering ppl wanted to try new perk out). That's even lower then 6% I predicted. At this point any nerf is undeserved.
I know I already swapped back to my balanced landing or bg player as both of those are much better in my eyes.
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EGC is not supposed to favor killers. The idea behind it was to force the game to end in some way. Devs could have just as likely decided to autoescape (instead of autokill) all survivors once time runs out.
What you are proposing is to make end game clearly and very strongly killer-sided - especially (but not limited to), because no way out and blood warden exists. Given this perks exists, you could almost remove all the gens at that point (not really, as NWO still requires stacks - but remove stacks and it doesn't matter if there's 5 gens to complete, 1 gen or 50 gens - everyone dies by the time of EGC anyway).
In conclusion - absolutely unacceptable "idea".
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Removing 3-gens altogether is not good either. All the game needs is, for survivors to be able to very slowly progress gens even if there are just 2 of them (so they have no reason to hide instead) and for killer to be able to exchange best 3gen for several hooks if he's good.
Provided killer has enough time on gens and no free regression (like OC, CoB, merchant's drones especially w certain addon, knight guards, ...) is strong enough to fully counter gen progression, the game should be healthy (at the same note 30% pop is actually good earned regression that does not result in endless game stall)
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Just a note - every single bug I mentioned above was encountered/reminded in a single 5hrs stream. It's not like a collection of super-rare things, that whole community needs months to discover
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459213#Comment_3459213
they said they want to nerf 3 gens. I don't understand why they buff deja vu but do not buff potencial energy. giving 1:1 progression and remove of loss stacks would make soloq player maybe run it.
SoloQ will never use it so long there's just 20 tokens. It's too little if u r not coordinated. The perk would need to be able to at minimum give 45 stacks (so 68s prep time) so that it's actually felt - but this would make the perk unproportionally better in SWF (basically removing 3gens from game).
The perk will never be good in soloQ. But right now, the perk is practically never good period.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
3 gens are caused by survs.
If i use all the hooks on one side of the map is it my fault or the survs?
Survs can see where gens spawn at the start, they choose to ignore them.
It's survs fault because they should have prayed to RNG gods harder?
It was mentioned several times, that the main problem is, that skull merchant spawning in game, ignoring 4 of her gens and just focusing 3 closest together is very viable tactics for very long match. And there are other killers capable of doing the same with a little worse success rate.
How is this survs fault? Because they didn't bring 4x BNP +4x potential energy just in case it's skull merchant? Well if that's ok, then how about bringing old boil over - that made survivors on certain spots unhookable if killer didn't bring iron grasp+agitation? Great design both of these things!
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458965#Comment_3458965
unless your facing an instant down killer. you get a speed boost to almost always make it to the boon. Yes it has setup but your extending chases with said perk. dark theory is not great perk but it is not negative like no mither and self-care is.
When the perk was new and I was trying it our, it extended my chases by negligible amounts. It was super complicated to use it in a loop where there would be reach, but far away so it doesn't get snuffed for free and in a loop where I could stay long enough to actually get some value.
Overall trying to use it cost me more downs then trying to chain new loops. This does not even factor setting up time. So overall, let's agree to disagree
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458799#Comment_3458799
the perk has drawbacks. you repair gens at 0.66 c/s conversion with the perk. you get double punished currently for using the perk. The perk is ok at transferring progression on a corner gen to a more centralized gen but I think the 0.66 c/s makes the perk not attractive to use.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458911#Comment_3458911
dark theory+made for this is 5% speed. wasn't one of your suggestions for dark theory to buff it to 4%? you can technically buff it to 5%.
At cost of 2 perks. At limited range. With quite a long setup. That can be snuffed in a single second. Or you could never be chased in it's vicinity.
The chance that the perk will do more harm (keep you off gen) then good (extend the chase) is almost guaranteed.
Like sure - even no mither can save you and win you game. But it's more likely you loose the game for it. That's why I call all of those harmful (but there's another category of survivor-team harming perks like left behind, sole survivor, etc)
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Potential energy, self-care on it's own, no mither, dark theory. These are all the perks that actively lower your chance to survive the trial if u take them.
Perks should help those, that take them. At least these 4 help killer more then survivors...
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@Seraphor said:
Obviously they're not going to make sweeping changes so soon, but I agree that these changes won't actually change anything. The biggest thing is the slowdown while charging, so survivors can't reliably use them in a chase, which is a bonus. But this won't fundamentally change how they're used, which is to hold onto an EMP until you need to use it, typically as you're being marked by an active biopod. This will still be possible, and will still result in the killers power 'whiffing' the very moment they try to use it, just like old Dead Hard.
This either obliterates the power when used in a 'setup' manner, or it means those who use the power in chase have to use it twice every time, which is just unnecessary hassle when the power could have been made to be balanced to have the same effect when used once.
EMPs need to be made significantly more scarce (such as not reprinting until used), and/or they need to come with a downside (such as killer instinct when used).
The killer was never feasible in "setup" mode. After the changes, the chase version will be very strong. Not counting 1st chase where EMP's are ready, you will get 0-1 EMP's per chase. Considering good singularity can infect people in 3s and then gun them thru like whole map, this change is already too much. But it needs time - so that "setup singularities" disappear.
Then the killer will be oppresive
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@Göch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458373#Comment_3458373
You can't have such a strong power without a strong counterplay. I just hope they dont butcher his power after the EMP nerf because he will (potentially) be very opressive after the change. With all the EMP complaints, i can imagine they dont want to re-buff EMPs so the only other option is to nerf his power.
Well. He's very hard to master killer. I already wrote in PTB threads, that ideally they would remove 3 EMP boxes so, that people will actually learn to play the killer - and later on when they actually know to play him differently from skull merchant - slowly return EMP boxes. I am afraid it's only matter of time when devs will have to rebuff EMP's (still several months away though)
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@Göch said:
You can always place new cameras mid chase, and there is a very limited chance people will use 2 or 3 EMPs in ONE chase. If you just want to play the janitor only lookin through his security cameras then yes, his power is easy to outplay. I thought after Knight and SM people would NOT want another killer that can just protect gens with his power but i guess thats how people want to play.
Yes I did. There's a special tactics for this and for 3genning wesker. But granted - said wesker needs Iri vial. Also there are more chests for wesker + 2 charges/chest.
After hotfix there will be just 4 chests for EMP's and they will take even longer to charge up (plus new hindered when using it). I don't think the killer will need anything more after that.
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If they changed it to work with every possible stun, I think it would have SOME usage even if no pallet-highlighting was implemented. Sounds like a good way to bring it at least closer to balanced landing (it would be still much worse then say lithe or sprint burst)
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Considering styptic - I also wonder who/how would be able to use the addon. It requires you to stop (so it can't be used in chase altruistically - outside of VERY coordinated SWF - at which case it's just better to bodyblock) and it works for 5s only. This change would make styptic about as useful, as green map. The only benefit this could EVER have is if killer surprises 2 healing survivors that were already healing altruistically with medkit (so practically never).
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
These kinds of perks and add-ons are saying, "oh, you know how you deserve that down after playing so well? Nah, we'll prevent that from happening."
This isn't a fun kind of effect to go against and should really just be limited or really reserved for very situational moments in a match, not given out to random perks that can really make games feel terrible and unrewarding for the Killer and undeserving to win as Survivor.
Here's my honest opinion on the effect to the following:
Made For This
- Nerf: Removed the Endurance status effect from the Perk entirely.
Soul Guard
- Nerf: Added a new requirement to unlock Soul Guard, now requiring that you at least fully heal another Survivor for two health states before activating.
- Buff: Removed the cooldown of Soul Guard.
Styptic Agent
- Nerf: Styptic Agent can now only be used on allies.
Hooks
- Buff: Changed the Endurance status effect to be similar to the Mettle of Man version of the effect, making it no longer apply Deep Wound.
- Buff: This effect will completely override the effect of Deep Wound from attacks that normally apply it.
- Buff: This Endurance effect will now pause whenever the Survivor is ensnared or inhibited by certain Killer powers or perks.
styptic already requires you to pause for a full second (because otherwise you don't get prompt for heals) and it's violet addon. If I should compare it to other violet addons on the other side (tombstone piece, alchemist ring, yakuyoke amulet, ...) I would say the addon is pretty underwhelming.
Soul guard is barely used as-is. Why would you want to nerf it even further? Considering the usage rate - how did you even remember that this perk does provide endurance? If anything, this perk needs buffs.
But I can agree with nerf to made for this. Just remove it. But don't make a new perk with just this effect - it would be too weak - filling the huge number of perks that are just not worth it.
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@Necromonicon said:
I feel like Circle of Healing was finally nerfed enough so it wasn't overpowered. It wasn't run because it was fun to use, it was run because it was significantly overtuned. Now that it is more in line with other perks, people run other options instead.
Nah. The perk got overnerfed - same as Iron will or Ruin or many other perks.
It just does not make sense as the time investment to set up CoH is so high, you will not get that time back. Meaning it's almost always better to go do gens (maybe take some genrush/chase perk instead - like resilience) and rather heal normally when you meet another survivor. In rare cases it's more important to be healthy (like you are the one being targeted), it's better to take inner healing or even pharmacy or self care as those can actually heal you. The perk no longer makes any sense in vast majority of games
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EMP's can't be limited. The power is too strong and it would be too easy to 3gen again like on skull merchant.
Let's see what happens when hotfix comes and there will be 1 less box, printing will be slower and there will be hindered for using EMP
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I think it would be fine if it was only visual for survivors.
Maybe a clarification - most (not all - like crowd control or huntress lullaby) hex perks are high reward, but the risk is just damn too high to be worth it.
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I saw people genuinly mistaking things, because "those 3% rob me of that hit" (survivor not hit). Yes this saved me (hope and again healthy survivor). But MfT is busted. Sorry, but so far I see it as a huge placebo
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The only change is, that medkit addons (if not talking about styptic/syringe or double charges for 2nd heal) make about 0 sense. Most of the games I run brown medkit (because it's practically identical to purple one) and probably no addon at all (or if I do take addon, it's syringe/styptic, because there's no reason to take anything else).
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I still feel lithe/sprint much more in my games then MfT. Just wait another 3 weeks and most ppl will not use it any more.
When playing survivor - I already swapped back to balanced landing, because it's just better
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because they are the most effective strategies for the Killer players
That's the biggest issue with the game. Most effective tactics being the most boring one. Tunneling/camping should not be most effective
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This is a bad idea. It's on killer if he will play it safe and break everything he sees - wasting enough time so he is genrush-able, or if he instead leaves the pallet alone. Pallets being able to reset by themselves just forces every killer to always kick it. Which means that under those conditions - maps are indeed busted and need nerfs. You don't want to loose half a pallets on every map - do you?
Not to mention that the game would become even more linear with even less options/interactions (same way as when e.g. devs decided to remove lightburn from the game instead of making it possible but balanced)