Firellius
Firellius
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- Firellius
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BP economy overhaul, and the perma-unlocking of perks on prestige. Those were excellent changes.
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@MrDardon said:
The ability to self heal relatively fast is what makes them way to strong.
CoH would be in a way better spot if they made it back to 100 % BUT only for altruistic healing and remove the ability to self heal.
Self Care doesn't fall under that category because you literally take longer to heal yourself than it takes for a teammate to heal you, so there is efficiency lost.
"CoH would be in a way better spot if they made it back to 100 % BUT only for altruistic healing and remove the ability to self heal."
It would be effectively worthless like that, requiring way too much work to get it to positives. You'd save only eight seconds per heal, minus time spent moving to radius, and you'd need to weigh that against set-up time.
CoH is, IMO, way less of a problem than people think, but if it must get a nerf, just make its own heal speed boost not work with self-healing. And even that might be a bit much.
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@DemocRat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373989#Comment_3373989
Potato potahto, SWF have that information and easily tell their team the exact killer's position. same thing aura or call exact location. SoloQ can't communicate, so Aura have to do the job to bring SoloQ to SWF level ;).
Swiffers don't have that information and in fact could benefit tremendously from this. How are killer supposed to mindgame someone if another player on their target's team can call out whenever the killer is hiding their red stain or doubling back? This would be incredibly broken.
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Unlikely. Killers take way more work because their gameplay is so different. It requires a model, three perks, power, and possibly power assets.
Survivors just take a model and three perks.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372704#Comment_3372704
Stop defending this mechanic as if it's something positive, it is not.
I think it is. Unpredictability is an important aspect of this game and things would be way more boring without it, I'd prefer dynamic chaos over static consistency. The devs are right to keep it in the game for this reason. Besides, missing a skillcheck isn't really that big of a deal most of the time.
10% is a sizeable chunk, and it can happen in sequence. If two survivors let go of a gen and both of them get this triggering, that's 1/5th of a whole gen gone for no reason.
One friend of mine had it happen three times in a short span because they were trying to let go of the gen to heal me, got sucked back onto the gen (One interact button, yay!), then it broke again when they let go, then later, when the killer showed up, it broke again when she let go.
That's 30% gen regression through no fault of hers.
Whole-ass killer perks are not as impactful as this dumb mechanic.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368409#Comment_3368409
Circle of Healing means killer either commits to the chase or gets nothing.
Every game against decent survivors involves toolboxes, medkits, dh and boons. There's no room for casual killer gameplay because game offers way too much help to survivors while punishes killers for any mistake. It's simply annoying to deal with the same set of perks and same kind of playstyles because the odds of winning are simply too high and there's no reason to pick weaker perks and struggle instead.
There's no room for casual survivor play either, since tunnelling, camping, slugging, 3-genning and major gen regression can quickly snowball a game out of control. This was very notable to me after 6.1, survivor gameplay has become way more stressed and sweaty.
Neither side is having fun, or having an easy time. But this is what was steered towards with a community that can't come to a consensus to break down the most overpowered stuff. People are refusing to give up on tunnelling/camping/slugging, and there's a staggering lack of complaints about, for example, BNP.
We could have a better game, but this community is garbage at outlining that better game.
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Isn't the knight in a pretty good spot now?
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@Blueberry said:
Saying 50% of them are completely terrible would be generous on both sides. Maybe 20% are near useless.
We need massive perk buffs/reworks on both sides for all the bad ones. At least 25% of those bad perks could be fixed by literal just number changes too, super easy, no programming time required.
There was a topic a good while ago where someone had listed a ton of perks that don't see much use and asked for suggestions for buffs to those perks. Had a lot of fun going through the list and coming up with stuff. Gonna be tough to find it again though. Anyone know if you can search by a forum user's comments in a way that goes back further than the last, like, 25?
EDIT: Found it!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335225#Comment_3335225
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@KerJuice said:
I actually have 2 different problems when I use it or Desperate Measures- teammates thinking I’m just hiding in a locker, so they get upset/let go on hook, and the 2nd problem is everyone blessing or destroying the yummy totems I need to get the best value out of Inner Healing.
IH should get a buff allowing 2 tokens, and 1 use consumes a token. Also, it should give teammates a notification via the HUD that you’re healing inside the locker. Just like how our portraits show gen & downed recovery progress, heal progress should be shown in general- no matter what the method is.
It would be considerably too much of a buff to give it completely free usage. Remember that currently, IH requires you to spend 14 seconds on a totem, which basically eats into your self-heal speed. Add the 8 seconds from sitting in the locker and a bit of time for finding both totem and locker and you've got a variable self-heal speed of roughly 25-30 seconds, conditionally a bit better than old self-care.
But if you removed the totem requirement, that time would dip to probably around 10-15 seconds, which would be very, very fast self-heals. I don't think that would be good for the game.
Rather, one more solo player buff is that you can see perk load-outs from allied survivors. This'd boost a ton of weaker perks too, like For the People, the new Teamwork perks, Desperate Measures, Deliverance and more. This'd also boost Inner Healing because you'd know when it conflicts with others, others would know when it conflicts with them, and they'd know that if you bolt from the hook and beeline for a locker that you're doing so in order to heal up.
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It's a very bad solo pick right now due to its poor interaction with boons. But also, if someone is chasing you around while you're trying to use Inner Healing, stop and let them heal you. It's faster, and you get to keep your charge.
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You can somewhat undercut the negative impact of Autodidact with For the People.
Speaking of For the People: using it with Resilience and This is not Happening, plus a self-healing option like Inner Healing, CoH or medkit can allow you to steal someone else's injury to repair faster with easier skillchecks for a bit.
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?????
That's quite the leap, especially on the Knight.
That does put something to mind though: it could be an interesting buff to Skull Merchant to have the drones emit a terror radius. It'd give her synergies with some niche perks.
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@cannonballB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371858#Comment_3371858
As if survivors don't have ways of messing with the killers. The amount of second chance perks alone proves your entire statement incorrect.
And if survivors could mess with killers like that, then the game wouldn't be dead by daylight, it'd be closer to VHS, where the teens can fight back.
Survivors are helpless *by design*. That's the intent.
No, that's very obviously not the intent. No player would sign onto a game where they're just plain helpless and lack any kind of agency.
Also, everyone needs to stop whinging about 'an abundance of second chance perks'. It's literally just Dead Hard.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371353#Comment_3371353
That might be your take on the conversation.
The windows buff allows the very best players to loop better.
Iron Will did the same thing and had an almost identical pick rate.
You can say whatever you like but both of these are true statements.
Windows might be fine in a world where the pallets follow the Scott Jund dream patch notes and all maps are 9000m² or smaller. Nerf windows until these things are true and then when we have reached that map utopia - restore windows to what it does now.
I would be perfectly ok with that.
Nothing Windows of Opportunity does allows survivors to accomplish anything they couldn't without the perk.
Iron Will took away the killer's ability to track by sound.
They are radically different with Iron Will being far, far more impactful.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371066#Comment_3371066
-"No, NOED needed a rework because it was garbage game design"
Here we can agree because DBD has a garbage game design. NOED used to be the great equalizer in that you were hard to get for the entire game and then it was "revenge time". If you want to make it so that M1 killers get downs like Nurse/Blight (very quickly) and NOED is weak - fine.
What is completely unacceptable is to keep weak killers in a pathetic state of balance. Why should I play any killer besides Nurse/Blight if those are the only fair killers?
-"killers, such as yourself, blow a gasket over literally anything but are mum about the stuff that is -actually- unfun to play against."
I have always asked for the game to be fair to both sides. The problem is that a large number of people want the game to favor their side at the expense of the other.
"an extremely high pick rate killer perk is much more likely to actually be OP than a survivor perk with the same pick rate"
As I said before- there are no killer perks with a 75% pick rate. Dead Hard of course still has a near 75% pick rate in top tier games.
Let me sketch out how the conversation is going right now:
"Can we nerf X?"
"No, X is not a problem."
"But it's got a high pickrate and killer perks with high pickrates often get nerfed!"
"Pickrates work differently for survivors and killers."
"But Y got nerfed for its high pickrate!"
"Actually, it got nerfed because it was terrible game design."
"But some killers are weak!"
?????
"Also, Z used to have a really high pickrate (before it was nerfed), so why can't we nerf X? (Which has a lower pickrate)"
??????????
Are you actually here to talk about Windows of Opportunity or are you just venting in bulk?
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@RhodosGuard said:
I dont know how else to phrase it.
Looking at different forums and different opinions, I get the feeling that Survivors are generally a unhealthy element in the way the game is discussed.
Like, recently I read "Why dont knight or Skull Merchant commit to every chase when I wanna bait them into running after me for 3 minutes and instead only protect their 3gen?"
And they dont get why. I recently came back and decided to play mostly knight.
I dont go for meta, I play with his base perks and the Executioner Perk that makes me undetectable when damaging gens.
And here is your answer: because at a certain level "committing to chases" is just not fun?
They are always the same, running from pallette to pallette and being at the mercy of survs choosing how much time they get to add to the chase.
In the meantime at the other end of the map 3 people are "Proving themselves" using their "Potential Energy" to pop gens. And when I stop committing to chases I am just "camping a 3gen" and when I committ to chases I get pallette blinded, stunned and then teabagged when I inevitably lose.
Which gets to the core of the problem:
Toxic playstyles reproduce toxic playstyles.
When 90% of Killers have to depend on Survivors ######### up to even have a bit of hope to win, then it's not too unexpected that they use toxic "unfair" playstyles because they know that this guarantees them at least a limit amount of success. IT just feels like BHVR mostly tries to stomp out toxic Killer playstyles (anti camping, anti tunneling, more and more immensely usefull survivor perks( off topic who the ######### thought Blastmines where a fun idea? A free killer stun that I cant predict and will always run into as long as I at least somewhat depend on Gen damage?))
So why is the base gameplay loop not finally addressed? It places most of the power in the hands of the survivors, unless you decide to learn one of the killers specifically designed to handle these issues, but when you play them you also get flamed for playing the meta and therefor being bad at the game.
I really dont get why, when already significantly catered too, Survivors still cry about it, when Killers feel like they have to play dirty to have even some fun.
And here is your answer: because at a certain level "committing to chases" is just not fun?
Then quit.
Don't make it everyone else's problem.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370417#Comment_3370417
-"Glad to see you're already backpedaling"
I'm not actually. I'll offer a clarification : lead to a perception of more wins. If you scroll up you can re-read where I explain how their stats can easily be spoofed because of how the chase system works.
When NOED and RUIN were nerfed it was done as a result of "pickrate" more than anything else without even considering if it was effective. More important was the concept of "how does it make survivors feel" when they play against it. The same consideration is not given to killer. DS was allowed to be in a broken state for about 5 years. DH is still broken.
Do you deny:
Windows allows a survivor to be able to spam pallets in an unhealthy way.
-"There's 31 killers in the game and only ...."
Nurse/Blight are viable. There fixed your sentence for you. If you'd like to disagree then how about I arrange a KYF game where you play against a team with ~25000 hours? They pick the map and your killer. No iri addons or items.
-"an extremely high pick rate killer perk is much more likely to actually be OP than a survivor perk with the same pick rate"
This is not logical and bordering on strawman. What was the dead hard pick rate before the shake up among good survivors? It was ~75% usage. Borrowed time had a similar pick rate among top level survivors but not quite that high.
There was no killer perk with a 75% pickrate ever other than the use of NOED in 2016 because it was literally the best perk in the entire history of the game (and there were fewer perks). If you had NOED then you used NOED. People that didn't use NOED were not using it because they did not have it yet.
Are you actually trying to make the argument:
A perk used by 35% of killers probably needs adjustment but a perk used by the top 75% of survivors is fine.
I'm not actually. I'll offer a clarification : lead to a perception of more wins. If you scroll up you can re-read where I explain how their stats can easily be spoofed because of how the chase system works.
Of course, stats being inaccurate only works in a way that favours your argument and never against it.
When NOED and RUIN were nerfed it was done as a result of "pickrate" more than anything else without even considering if it was effective.
No, NOED needed a rework because it was garbage game design, and Ruin was actually really powerful. That's not to say Ruin didn't get overnerfed, but it did deserve a nerf.
The same consideration is not given to killer.
No, because killers, such as yourself, blow a gasket over literally anything but are mum about the stuff that is -actually- unfun to play against. You don't get what you want because what you want is for the game to be broken beyond belief.
Do you deny:
Windows allows a survivor to be able to spam pallets in an unhealthy way.
Yes. Obviously.
Because anything done by a survivor with Windows of Opportunity can also be done by a survivor without it. Objectively, Windows is not the problem there. It makes it easier, sure, but it's objectively weaker than a huge number of nigh pointless survivor perks.
What you are complaining about will not be solved with the removal of Windows of Opportunity. You will still get pallet-slammed. You will still get taken from pallet to pallet.
Nurse/Blight are viable. There fixed your sentence for you. If you'd like to disagree then how about I arrange a KYF game where you play against a team with ~25000 hours? They pick the map and your killer. No iri addons or items.
Jeeze, dude, if you don't want to engage with the argument, just say nothing at all instead of taking a hard left turn into a completely different territory to have a different, completely unrelated whinge.
Are you actually trying to make the argument:
A perk used by 35% of killers probably needs adjustment but a perk used by the top 75% of survivors is fine.
"an extremely high pick rate killer perk is much more likely to actually be OP than a survivor perk with the same pick rate"
Spec-effing-tacular.
You really are the new Lord_Tony/Killer Sluzzy. Except even Sluzzy's arguments are better than yours.
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I'm glad it's taken a nosedive. It was one of the worst designed perks in the game.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329259#Comment_3329259
-"The rate of use of a perk is not necessarily related to its dangerousness."
Almost every killer perk that has been used "too much" has been nerfed because it was picked too often and lead to more wins.
Did you play before exhaustion? Just imagine what would happen if it were removed. You would see people using sprint burst, overcome and dedhard.
Old NOED that was not a totem, gave 9% haste and could never be removed had a massive pick rate because there was no reason NOT to take it. Should we restore that perk because its pick rate was not dangerous?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329136#Comment_3329136
-"My only issue with the perk is that it is used by some players to run from pallet to pallet and instantly drop them without thinking"
Last night I played a game on crow map vs at least 2 people from comp teams in a swf (on their profiles). One player was on death hook and used up 80% of the pallets in that chase. That's just not fair.
Maybe we need to add "pallet exhaustion" where you can throw 2 pallets instantly and then you have a 1 second delay to throw them because you are tired. We could do the same for window vaults in a chase. After 4 quick vaults all vaults are medium vaults.
But instead of nerfing the entire system we just nerf a survivor perk with a bloody 30% pick rate.
-"Windows of Opportunity only really exists to aid players in chase"
Do you know why Iron Will had at least a 20% pick rate before the 6.0 patch? It had no exhaustion component. It made you silent in loops and that was deemed "unfair" to use with an exhaustion perk. Now you must choose DH or IW. Everyone abandoned IW expect the pure stealth players (even though stealth is basically totally dead).
Pre patch Iron will made looping easier and could be used without cooldown. WoO does the same thing and for the same reason it should probably have an exhaustion cooldown.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329393#Comment_3329393
-"Trying to loop without it, being brand new, is nigh impossible."
This might blow your mind but DBD is balanced around the killer hitting you once every 30 seconds or so in a chase. The goal is to loop the killer way longer than that to waste time . And when that happens it completely breaks the game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329461#Comment_3329461
I am not a new player. I know where about 90% of the pallets spawn because people lead me to the pallets every game.
-"As a killer you have Zanchin Tactics"
This perk even though it has the same functionality as its counterpart is 99% useless as there is only one killer that it makes sense to bring - Otz even made a video on it. My opinion is that ZT is a waste of a perk slot. I control windows more than I control pallets because windows can be used forever and pallets are finite. My favorite killers can hit over a pallet anyway.
The mere fact that you are suggesting I use ZT is about as offensive to me as if I suggested to you that you use Deja Vu.
Almost every killer perk that has been used "too much" has been nerfed because it was picked too often and lead to more wins.
Glad to see you're already backpedaling away from an untenable position by adding the 'it must actually provide a meaningful winrate increase' stipulation, but you're going to have to backpedal a bit more.
There's 31 killers in the game and only 1 survivor.
If a perk is good on that survivor, it is good on all survivors.
If a perk is good on a killer, that doesn't immediately mean it is also good on other killers. It also doesn't necessarily mean that perk is the top pick for other killers, as it may be outperformed by a perk that better synergises with their power.
That is, if the perk is balanced. If a perk is OP, it's much more likely to take the top pick spot for multiple killers, even if those other killers have picks that specifically synergise with them (Think Hoarder/Franklin's on Pinhead) and even if the perk itself doesn't necessarily synergise with them.
Basically, an extremely high pick rate killer perk is much more likely to actually be OP than a survivor perk with the same pick rate. Consequence of an asymmetrical game.
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That depends entirely on the circumstances. One time I spawned trapped in the undercroft of the big building in the swamp, and just as I made my way to the exit, the killer found me. I had one unsafe loop, so I went down. It was a bubba and he facecamped. At that point, I blame the game.
But I've also had a case where I was put on hook, watched a trapper put down a trap, then there was a scuffle, I got pulled off the hook, and my dumb ass just ran straight into the trap I watched him put down. Absolutely my fault, because I had other ways I could've gone that weren't trapped.
Another 'my fault' that happened was when I was playing Nurse on Hawkins, I intercepted an unhook and downed the unhooker. Picked him up, slapped him on the hook, then turned around to find the person he'd rescued hiding right under my nose. Downed her, picked her up, got smacked with DS. Absolutely my fault, should've seen it coming and left her slugged.
Teammates can definitely be a problem from time to time, but I can often spot mistakes in my own play. Or at least weak points, like me not knowing how to run shack well.
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@Nos37 said:
Also, has anyone tried having a dedicated healer to patch the team up and send them right back in to keep pressure?
I play solo, so this would never work for me, but what about Circle of Healing, Autodidact, Botany Knowledge, and Desparate Measures? Setup your boon away from the gens (not too far, to save on run time).
Autodidact would be terrible in that situation (As it is in any other), as its benefit would be negated by the other heal speed perks. Popping a skillcheck for 50% progress doesn't matter much if your time to heal is 6 seconds.
Empathic Connection would add another 10% and make you easy to find for injured survivors. I actually did run this once and we got an end-game where two survivors were fishing for an unhook on the third, and I was standing by and patching folks up in record time whenever they got injured.
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Been wanting to have a Control chapter, so here's a survivor perk for Jesse Faden.
The Hotline
In the fight against the Entity, you are able to call in a favour from the Board of Directors.
This perk spawns a red bakelite phone somewhere on the map. After working on a generator for 90/80/70 seconds total, the phone will start to ring and reveal its aura to you. You can then interact with the phone to call the Board and have them assist you.
If a survivor is on a hook and the killer is within 24 meters of that hook, the Board will halt the hook timer for 60 seconds.
If the conditions for the first effect aren't met, and there's only one gen left to do, the Board will halve all regression on one gen, highlighted in white, for 60 seconds.
If neither of the conditions for the first two effects are met, the Board will highlight a random hex totem, and prevent the killer from reading your aura by any means for 30 seconds.
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@BlueHorkew said:
Ok, its been almost a week since the update has arrived. So how are the new survivor perks:
- Friendly Competition - Underwhelming effects, feels very weak compared to other options like Deja vu that is easier to get value and gives extra info, or Prove which gives an immediate benefit and bigger reward - D tier - get the adept trophy and try hard gen rush if you don't have other better options
- Teamwork Power of two - To many restrictions (3) for one perk, nerfed version of an existing perk and requires SWF to actually get use out of it - D tier - Get the adept and meme haste youtube videos
- Cut loose - Cool perk, the most fun perk launched, the numbers feel a bit safe and awkward, the restrictive time window paired with the long cooldown makes the perk a bit frustrating to use out of it, while the multiple uses of silent vaults is cool in theory, in practice i don't see many ways to apply the effect multiple times - C tier - Has potential, maybe if gets a buff to some numbers later
- Blood Rush - Like the idea for a new comeback perk like Adrenaline, big fan. The problem is how this perk promotes tunneling and is more devastating for lower tier killers while High tier killers can make the perk a big risk and maybe even signing your death sooner - A tier - Maybe some tweaks will be needed, it's strong but not sure how healthy this is for the game
- Teamwork Collective Stealth - Maybe when this teamwork perks get out of beta they will be worth something, right now just ignore them, to many restrictions, survivors don't stay close to each other for that long or should, i find it hard to see these perks ever being viable (not meta, just viable) - D tier - Get the adept and hope teamwork isn't a new class of perks for survivors in the future
- Background Player - Ah, the perk so obviously toxic and bad that took not even 5 min for everyone to notice it, good rework bhvr, the perk really surpassed my expectations, it's not gonna be meta or anything, but should make flashlight and pallet saves more fun for people that want that play style - B tier - Expect Killers to hate this perk a lot
In regards to Blood Rush 'Encouraging Tunnelling': Every perk in the game, save for Sole Survivor, Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike, does this. Any survivor perk can be disabled by simply tunnelling the user out. A survivor having a perk encourages tunnelling. It's a fundamental flaw with the game. Keep in mind as well that Blood Rush does not work with Dead Hard, so whatever strain Blood Rush is supposed to add is going to be offset by the fact that DH is out. I really don't see this perk being a problem, or actually even being popular. It's an Adrenaline, except without the heal and the 'all 5 gens' requirement, and you can't use DH with it.
Now Background Player is the one I worry about, because that one screams 'Bully squad'. Absolutely are people going to use this to come flying in from nowhere for the flashlight save. That one is going to be way more frustrating than Blood Rush.
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@NerfDeadHardPLZ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369052#Comment_3369052
Yeah because majority of survivors are bad that count into those kill rates. Top survivor teams can't lose a match as long as they don't play around and lose on purpose
Kill rates at high MMR are higher than at low MMR.
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@NerfDeadHardPLZ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368631#Comment_3368631
you can't balance the game around that, if you have option to talk and you don't why balance game around not talking ? make no sense, they should take best SWF team and nerf/balance around it, others should adapt, buffing survivors just because majority of players are bad is generally a really bad idea
Sure, if you want the game to be a widely inaccessible e-sport, reserved only for the sweatiest no-lifers.
I mean, I don't know why you're complaining about sweaty swiffers and then also advocating for making the game more hostile for anyone who's not a sweaty swiffer.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369410#Comment_3369410
How does that work if you have multiple boons equipped? Like if CoH and DT are equipped what's the range of the boon?
You could maintain the individual ranges per effect, or you could take the worst parameters of the boons you take to discourage stacking.
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@Doomzilla said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368521#Comment_3368521
Saying killers aren’t entitled to 4K doesn’t mean they aren’t entitled to “try” to 4K, just as survivors are entitled to escape by any means.
But the attitude you have of “oh if I don’t like what the killer is doing, I’m going to DC!”… That is the textbook definition of entitlement.
If you're playing to 4K by any means necessary, with no care for the enjoyment of the other players, then a DC should be exactly what you want to see.
If you complain about DCs at that point, you're a hypocrite, plain and simple.
I don't tunnel, camp, slug or force 3-gens. I also don't teabag, flashlight spam, bring BNPs or linger in the exit zone. It isn't that hard to play nicer.
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Boons should have individual parameters. Dark Theory and Exponential should have longer ranges, Circle of Healing should have a shorter range. Boon time can be adjusted too.
But just flat nerfing boons as a whole because someone healed once will just dumpster the entire concept.
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'Didn't you have fun genrushing?'
One really trashy gen speed-up perk across the four of them does not constitute 'genrushing'.
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@NerfDeadHardPLZ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368073#Comment_3368073
it's called balance not penalize
It is called 'penalize', because you'd be forcing that on -all- swiffers, when every swiffer plays to a different level of coordination. Some don't talk about the game while playing, some don't even talk at all.
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@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367861#Comment_3367861
Great, when are Dead Hard and Circle of Healing getting the necessary nerfs they need considering how unhealthy they are for the game?
Circle of Healing is way less of an issue than people give it credit.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368156#Comment_3368156
Without the penalty it's 90 seconds / 3 = 30 seconds. Now put into account that everyone will hit some skill checks and you're down to 25 seconds. You're probably right that I was a bit generous though. It'd likely be more like 22 seconds.
And I specifically said that gens should take the same time to complete with two, and a little less with 3, so that 90 second baseline would be outdated already.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368064#Comment_3368064
Then you risk 3 survivors grouping up on a gen while the last is in chase and finishing it in 25 seconds without the need for toolboxes. Not a good idea. This is already a problem with Prove Thyself. It allows survivors to push one gen out so fast the killer cannot defend it.
How do you know it'd be 25 seconds? IIRC, the calculation I ran for the suggestion I originally devised made it barely any faster than 3-manning a gen back when it was 80 seconds.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368011#Comment_3368011
Prove doesn’t boost Gen speeds; it just removes the penalty of multiple survivors working on a Gen together. Which tbh is a ridiculous handicap to begin with.
The co-op speed penalty is really weird, as it encourages survivors to split up. But that also makes them harder to pressure, meaning the most efficient strategy on gens is also the safest.
It should be reversed, with gens taking longer to complete solo, but the same time to complete with 2. (And a little less with 3)
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@Zaydin said:
Killer perks that became meta last year? Already nerfed into pointlessness (See also: Eruption) while overpowered survivor meta perks that have been meta for six years like Dead Hard go unnerfed.
Red Forest has been reworked into another survivor sided map set due to how much clutter there is to get caught up on and so much for survivors to use to break line of sight.
That's not even getting into how overpowered SWF is and BHVR refusing to do anything to address that particular elephant in the room. Coordination is game breaking and BHVR doesn't care.
People keep saying this or that will kill the game but want to know what will really kill the game? BHVRs complete and utter apathy towards game balance.
Killer perks that became meta last year? Already nerfed into pointlessness (See also: Eruption) while overpowered survivor meta perks that have been meta for six years like Dead Hard go unnerfed.
So, DBD is an asymmetrical game, which has some consequences.
For one: Survivor perks =/= Killer perks. They're vastly different, and on the whole, killer perks are better than survivor perks. Survivor perks have a ton of 'chaff'. Perks that do not find much use in any match and thus fall by the wayside. IMO, last chapter added like five of that category.
This does mean that the rest of the perks are more likely to show up, meaning 'meta' perks are more likely to surface.
For another: While survivor = survivor, killer =/= killer.
With a variance of killer powers, perks change in usage rate between different killers. Starstruck is stronger on Nurse than it is on Sadako. Infectious Fright is stronger on Oni than it is on Trickster. Iron Maiden is stronger on Huntress than it is on Trapper.
For survivors, since all survivors are roughly identical, whatever is strong on one survivor is strong on all of them.
This means a survivor meta will be quickly recognisable, whereas with killers... Well, there should logically be tons of different metas. Hoarder, for example, might be meta on Pinhead and on basically no one else. That's normal.
However, when a perk rears up that is meta on ALL killers (And thus more likely to be recognised as an actual 'meta' perk), that does also mean it's more likely to be a problem, since it's overcoming different power sets and playstyles to be considered 'best in slot' even for killers that don't necessarily synergise with it. That is indicative of it being over power budget, so to speak. (That's not to say that they -always- are, just that they are -more likely- to be.)
Thirdly: As much as people want to deny it, in the vast majority of matches, the killer is the power role.
The only time survivors can be considered the power role is in multi-survivor chases. Bully squads circling a killer's down like vultures waiting to pull off a flashlight or sabo-save. But outside of those bully squads, the game is driven by the actions of the killer, to which the survivor responds.
This does mean that anything the killer does is -far- more likely to be oppressive.
That's why killer perks are more likely to be trimmed down, and quicker. That's not to say survivors didn't get slapped around, their entire meta got messed up in 6.1, with the exception of Dead Hard. After all, DS is gone, and it basically took Unbreakable with it. BT is gone too, and that foursome of perks were basically the core of the survivor pre-6.1 meta.
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I was suspicious that we'd silently switched back to killer-sided verification, as opposed to server-sided, and this appears to confirm it.
EDIT: THough, aren't killer games always hosted to killer anyway?
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364148#Comment_3364148
Bubba with his AoE?
I can see that.
Maybe an adjustment to his power would be more targeted to reduce his ability to be a problem.
I think 30 additional seconds is plenty to push generators to completion if the killer is really only face camping.
For a perk that's useless in all other scenarios? I don't think 30 is nearly enough, considering you have to go out and have a stand-off with the killer to get the perk activated, which is going to cost most of that time.
IMO, at baseline, I think the hook timer should slow down based on the number of survivors on gens. That way, slamming gens actually does counter camping.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364135#Comment_3364135
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4Q7MDmCA6E
And here we have Otzdarva, Killer main with thousands of hours famed for his 50+ Killer win streaks, jumping through every possible hoop to bait out DH and looking like an idiot for trying.
inb4 "He got outplayed".
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364187#Comment_3364187
See the above video. Nancy could have easily not had DH at all and the clip would have played out exactly the same. I'd say that qualifies as "abuse".
Though if you want clips of top-tier Killer players, especially tournament-winning Killers, losing outright to abuse of Dead Hard specifically, that's a bit of a tall order, given that Dead Hard is banned or limited in most DbD tournament rulesets, for some reason.
I mean... he had her at a bad pallet, but was so scared of DH that he didn't swing.
If she had hit Dead Hard, she would've gained distance and the chase would continue.
Instead she got a pallet drop, giving her distance and letting the chase continue.
Otz should've recognised that there was literally zero value to waiting. He was too focused on countering DH that that became the priority over ending the chase. He'd rather chase 40 seconds longer than hit DH and be done in 20.
That's his mistake.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364093#Comment_3364093
That is literally what Reassurance does.
Reassurance costs time to use and only buys up to 30 seconds. Its PTB form would probably have worked, but it got gutted moving to live.
Not to mention that the king of camping can punish you for trying to use it.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363761#Comment_3363761
They made the audio 3D and positional, which probably means having to deal with, of all things, sound occlusion.
And from the look of it, it's not a loud noise outside of 19m, it's a loud noise within 19m if you get the scream. No notification outside of 19m.
If it's meant to be a notification at a distance, they really screwed up on wording this one.
That's not how I'm reading it.
"When a survivor screams to reveal their location, the scream will be a 3d scream (instead of a 2d/mapwide scream), with a 19m max range, and a loud noise sfx is triggered."
It says '-and- a loud noise' -after- the range was declared. If the loud noise also had a 19 meter range, wouldn't it have said 'a 3d scream and a loud noise sfx with a range of 19m'?
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As I understand it, it still triggers the notification, it'll just be a loud noise notification instead of a scream.
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@brokedownpalace said:
So the scream audio has a 19m range? How about the loud noise notification?
You need to be 24m away for Make Your Choice to trigger so the 19m probably doesn't apply to the loud noise notification.
Presumably, the loud noise notification will still be global, as it always is. I don't think the silhouette is even getting adjusted. It's just the scream outside 19 meter range.
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If I'm reading this right, any scream outside of a 19 meter radius from the killer is instead turned into a Loud Noise notification. Conversely, any scream within a 19 meter radius now uses positional audio.
Presumably, the various perks, powers and add-ons were handling this differently from one another.
If my reading is correct, I doubt these perks will work any different than they used to.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362937#Comment_3362937
Forced to use the top 16 perks instead of all 4 survivors getting the best 4 is nerfing the survivors. This means being forced to use the top 16 perks instead of the top 4 is a large nerf to the survivors
So no duplicate perks, then?
Well, goes to show that the game is not balanced around survivor perks being exclusive, considering how hard survivors get stomped without being able to pick the top tier perks.
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@Trollinmon said:
Since people are just finding any reason they possibly can to defend DH we can actually look at this terrible argument that because the killer won DH is fine.
In this tournament Survivor are massively nerfed from the top 4 perks to the top 16. They are not allowed to bring the same item and both sides are restricted on item rarity. Saying something is fine because killer won when there are massive nerfs for the survivors is a god awful counter to saying the perk is fine.
What do you mean 'nerfed from top 4 perks to top 16'? That sounds like they got to use a wider array of perks.
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@philward1953 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361481#Comment_3361481
Listing Deadlock was more of a way of pointing out a meta. BBQ gives killers great info for when they need it the most, which makes it powerful. It's definitely not OP tho.
Idk why you wouldn't consider Iron Will and Windows of Opportunity powerful lmao.
Self Care is not great anymore, but its still in heavy circulation. That's the only one where I'll say you've pointed out a flaw in my post.
BBQ isn't powerful. It's decent. Deadlock is not powerful, it's just an incredibly easy comfort pick. Iron Will isn't good anymore since its value was removed and it gets disabled by perks that are almost mandatory. Windows of Opportunity is a learning tool but outside of knowing when a pallet is broken, it does nothing that a normal survivor player won't learn from just playing.
The problem is that you're conflating 'popular' with 'powerful'. But perks aren't just picked for being strong. Hell, even acquisition muddies the waters already. Yeah, you're going to see more Self-Cares than a lot of other healing perks because Self-Care is on Claudette, a free starting survivor. DS, prior to 6.1, is another perfect example of this: The perk itself was dead weight in almost all circumstances, but it was a perk that massively improved game health and thus had an astronomical pick-rate.
That's why I mentioned that people have a really bad grasp on what is and isn't an 'A-tier' perk.
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Problem is that people have no idea what an A tier perk is.
On the survivor side, we have perks like Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Iron Will, Windows of Opportunity, Adrenaline, Self-Care, Prove Thyself, etc.,
On the killer side, we have perks like BBQ, Eruption, Deadlock, Pain Res., STBFL, Lethal Pursuer, Pop Goes the Weasel, etc.
Case in point.
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It would depend dramatically on the cosmetics, but it'd need to be something truly spectacular to make it worthwhile.
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I'd say the only time it wasn't meta was during the post-conspic nerf DS era. That perk actually punished tunnelling.
But then it got cut in half for no particular reason and now we're here.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359368#Comment_3359368
I'm glad those changes were made but they act 3 times faster for killer perks than surivor perks
And sometimes it just dosent feel right
He's right for the wrong reason
Killer is the power role, so anything they get is A) more likely to be oppressive and B) likely more oppressive.
It's an asymmetrical game, there's not going to be symmetrical balancing.