Firellius
Firellius
About
- Username
- Firellius
- Joined
- Visits
- 17,210
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Unam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348522#Comment_3348522
Of course they are not the same and I never said that. This is an asymetrical Game and therefore each side has to be observed differently.
I think you dont get the point Im trying to make!
It is the sole look at Mechanics in the Game, that make progressing towards their objective for the other side harder and harder. Be it kicking Gens to prevent escapes or Stunning the Killer to get Time for the others to finish Generators. It all goes down to the same thing: Making your opponent "not Win" the Game. (Which doesnt mean you are winning the game)
The treatment although is not the same on every side. Which is what Im trying to say. Callouts for "unfun" gameplay (which is highly subjective) is always treated much more valuable on Surv Side than on Killer side. F.E. Dead Hard and Eruption discussion and "wait it out".
"Wait it out" is a complete legit argument on DeadHard but not on Eruption. Why?
Rushing Gens and Rushing Kills aka "tunneling". Rushing Gens is completely fine, rushing kills is not. Why?
You see where I am going. Both sides want to win so everyone should be prepared to face the hardest measures the other side has to offer. Yet Killers get blamed for playing effective and Survivors dont.
- "Survivors have 3 hook states before they die..." If you are hooked 3 Times before one Gen pops you completely ######### up the chase and lost to a killer, that is clearly better than you. With 2 Times Basekit BT which gives you at least 20 sec. of free roam across a map that should have all pallets up you still lost. Isnt the killer allowed to be rewarded for being a better player? If you juke the killer for 3 Minutes its completely fine to escape bcs "you played better" but if the Killer finds a surv that is a worse player he is not allowed to capitalize on the teams weakness? why is that?
- "If you are being camped on the hook you literally cannot do anything for 60 seconds per hook state..." This is the Point where "the other side losing doesnt mean you win" comes in place. No one said that being camped is fun, yet the killer loses 100% if he facecamps you and you are not playing with monkeys. So why is Camping a problem if it is more of a disadvantage for the killer?
- "Killers do not have a limit to the amount of pallet stuns or blinds..." You can still do stuff while being incapacitated? Run Around, getting chased, Getting Info on where totems/chests/gens/basement are, etc. Ofc. if survs prefer to stand infront of the Gen and wait thats essentially not playing the game. But this is not the fault of the perk! Again, Im not saying Eruption was healthy and didnt need a nerf. But the argumentation towards the nerf is just BS if it isnt used on both sides of the spectrum.
- "If you get blinded, you can still move and track Survivors...." like I said above, almost everything you mentioned could be replicated to incapacitation. You are still able to move, get information, chase, etc. you are not locked into place (like through blast mine, Head on or pallets). Still, the argument counts for killers but not for survivors. So double standard which proves my point!
The treatment although is not the same on every side.
That's because it's an asymmetrical game. The way the game is built means that killers are far more likely to go out of control than survivors are.
It's similar to why League of Legends has had about 16 different tank metas: The way defensive stats and offensive stats work simply means that the former is far more likely to create problems than the latter. It doesn't matter how much damage you can do, if you die in a single stun. It doesn't matter how little damage you can do, if the enemy team literally cannot stop you.
Killers have a similar problem: They are the power role. (Inb4 'muh tournament play') They have much more control in general over a match, so anything they do is much more likely to be oppressive than anything survivors do.
What are the most frustrating things to face from survivors? I'm not talking about anything that's annoying, I'm talking about the things that literally make you want to quit on the spot. You're probably gonna say Dead Hard first, but Dead Hard is not the main ingredient of a bully squad, is it?
It's BNPs to rush gens, chain flashlight blinds, sabo-spam (Possibly with Boil Over + Breakout). It's having two other survivors orbiting your chase, ready to ruin your day by denying you the hook. But all of this stuff, with the exception of the BNP, is pretty hard to pull off, since it requires coordination.
Killers don't have to worry about coordination. It's much easier for killers to execute a lot of strategies, making them far more common, too.
---
But then there's another issue that's going to sound even worse: Loud killers often have a really bad grasp on the game. One of the skills required to be a great killer is having a good macro-level understanding of the game. But there's a lot of killers that struggle with that as they just blind-focus on whatever is directly in front of them. That produces an issue with the kinds of complaints that roll out of the killer community: It can be very short-sighted, pointing the finger at the wrong things, focusing on things that are happening in front of them as opposed to things that are happening outside their view that are more impactful.
Any perk that gets any kind of usage in a match becomes the object of its ire, while there's other, more powerful things at work in the background that draw no attention at all. BNPs are a sterling example of this.
Seriously, I feel like I am the only person on these forums to have ever called for the removal of BNPs, the most blatantly broken piece of garbage in the entire game. But strangely, when people talk about gen speeds, this little trinket is -never- brought up. Disabling this thing should be a slam-dunk, but for some reason, all the attention is on Prove Thyself or Hyperfocus.
Similar to CoH. I could be running around with my ambulance build, healing folks up in 5 seconds flat, but Mikaela's healy perk made a big boom, so that one's the problem.
The most blatantly unfun things that killers can deal with are bully squads and BNPs, and neither are getting nearly as many complaints as they deserve.
-
@drsoontm said:
The only way to fix these tactics is to make the other ones viable.
That is, exactly the opposite of what has been done the last few months and what will be done in the next update.
Once you go against good teams, you have no choice to play efficiently, and since every other tool has been nerfed or made useless, well, what else can you do?
I've not played since the 1st of this month yet because of that very reason (I don't like to tunnel nor to be tunnelled).
If today I play (I'm having an overdose of what I'm playing right now), I'll probably tunnel from the start. (edit: just saying that makes me want to play something else ...)
The only way to fix these tactics is to make the other ones viable.
Flatly untrue.
First of all, these tactics aren't always driven by viability. You and I and everyone else on these forums know damn well that it's not just viability that motivates these tactics. Killers will do it precisely because it sours the game for everyone else. That's not fixed by just buffing killers.
Secondly, who gauges how 'viable' these tactics are? The killer. Which means that yes, you could try to make the other tactics more viable, but the killer can just drop the bar and say 'No, still not viable enough' and go straight back to camping/tunnelling. This is actually a current issue too, where virtually any change the devs make will be followed up with an 'I'm gonna camp and tunnel now' thread.
Thirdly, the other tactics wouldn't just need to be 'viable', they'd need to outperform. And with tunnelling being objectively the best way to play, that would mean that the competing tactics would need to be buffed to incredibly oppressive levels.
The only way to fix these tactics is to target them with tailored nerfs until they're No Mither-tier.
-
@Sillymare said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345793#Comment_3345793
Selective bias?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WA8D4LI2LUE4/sure-jim.gif
I have 600hrs on PC that says otherwise but sure, believe what you like even if it means ignoring the facts.
Okay...
How many times have you gone out of your way to confirm the players you're playing against were in a swiffer, if they were not using bully tactics?
-
@toxik_survivor said:
It's just a mechanic that comes with this type of genre of game (4 v 1 asymmetrical). There's always gonna be a chain and loop of events like this and there's really no avoiding it without unbalancing one side or the other. In the end it just comes down to the player irl and how they play the game. There's always gonna be a "code of honor" to online games, but to not follow it is that person's decision and if it allows them to do better than so be it. The fact is, tunneling and gen rushing will always be a mechanic in the game that will never be fully solved.
"there's really no avoiding it without unbalancing one side or the other."
I don't like this defeatist attitude, especially since we've long had something that did effectively reduce tunnelling.
It just got gutted in 6.1.
It's not that it's an unsolvable problem, it's that BHVR clearly doesn't want to solve it.
-
@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348634#Comment_3348634
There is a few issues with this assessment, first lets look at the 14 seconds of slowdown you get for the actual booning action, you need to look at that on a per heal basis. Each heal you get on a single boon increases its efficiency, so looking at self heals at 21 sec/heal plus 14 for the boon, that is 35 sec total, however if you get say 4 heals accross the team, that means that 1 booning action gets divided amongst each of those heals to 3.5 sec/heal, which brings that down to 25 sec total per heal.
Futhermore looking at the slowdown gained by a self heal action of 21 seconds, you really dont actually get all of that as actual slowdown, unless you are getting a oneshot down.
Looking at it more realistically, if you do the basic math without taking into account exhaustion perks extending the chase, using a basic M1 killer at 4.6 m/s, this can be calculated quite easily.
Lets take a pretty favorable situation, survivor heals and is full heath instead of injured working on a gen, they take a hit at the gen that would have downed them if they were injured, the clock starts here.
Survivor runs at 6m/sec for 2 sec and gains approx 10m of distance, at this point the killer gains at a rate of .6m/sec taking 16 seconds to catch up. Now obviously alot of other factors can affect this killer powers, looping, dead hard, dropping a pallet, individual mistakes. But at its base a 21 sec heal buying you 16 sec of extra chase time means that a self heal only actually buys on average about 5 seconds of actual slowdown, Against a good survivor at a decent tile it can easily actually be a net negative.
However, this is also all comparing it against a backdrop where there is no other means of healing beyond CoH, which is not the usual case.
-
@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348681#Comment_3348681
One guy with botany can achieve it for himself, one guy with COH achieves it for the full team. Not to mention, its not so much as the healing speed boost, its that they can do it without the help of anyone.
One guy with botany can heal everyone but himself at +50% speed. CoH does work on a wider scale but also requires slowdown due to the initial set-up, and the range limitation.
But if you, as killer, keep patrolling a 3-gen and keep injuring survivors but letting them go, that Botany will nullify your pressure as faster, or even faster than CoH does.
And you can't snuff out Botany.
-
@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348559#Comment_3348559
Before it was nerfed it didn’t disable when interacting with things.
I'm talking about the 6.1 nerf, not the conspic nerf.
-
@Unam said:
At this point, it is hard to argue against the fact that BHVR obviously has two standards when balancing the Game on Survivor and Killer Side.
But I would like to know where this comes from?
I get it. Getting tunneled out of the Game, facecamped on hook, or being incapacitated for 25 sec. is indeed not fun gameplay. Losing in general is no fun gameplay.
But why is the attention to "no fun gameplay" so high on survivor side? I mean like, getting pallet stunned and blinded or getting blinded while vaulting is "no fun gameplay" and has no counterplay. Yet it still is accepted as part of the game.
Getting Blast mined at 3 gens in succession is 12 sec of not being able to move, do or even see things, without counterplay is no fun in any way... Yet still accepted.
Memorizing every hookstate of survivors with the same skin, getting bodyblocked or hook saboed with a purple toolbox has also no counterplay and is "no fun gameplay" to the killer. Yet, aswell, still accepted.
Is it the fact, that BHVR really tries to make every survivor feel like they are winning even when they are (obviously) not good at the game? And why is that? and why is this standard not the same on Killerside?
I get it. Getting tunneled out of the Game, facecamped on hook, or being incapacitated for 25 sec. is indeed not fun gameplay. Losing in general is no fun gameplay.
But why is the attention to "no fun gameplay" so high on survivor side?
You do realise that the first two things you mentioned have been major problems in the game from the moment of inception, and the only thing that has been done to fix them is a short period of Endurance upon unhook? In six years?
-
@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348603#Comment_3348603
You can't honestly say COH isn't strong. The time saved doesn't matter when you cant apply pressure. Survivors can chip at gens quicker then most killers can defend them and with COH it makes it so you HAVE to dedicate almost every single chase. It creates a damned if you do damned if you dont situation where if you commit you lose gens but if you dont then they heal and jump straight on a gen. A good team (not even a 4 man) can abuse the hell out of COH with little to no effort
Hold on, what's that scenario look like without CoH though? Where killers can build pressure without leaving gens?
Because that, to me, sounds like a loss/loss on the survivor side. Either you don't do gens and get timed out, or you try to clear a gen and get downed.
Also, what's to stop these teams from achieving similar with other, less conspicuous perks? One guy with Botany can achieve CoH speeds.
-
@BenOfMilam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348620#Comment_3348620
I mean, I don't understand your problem then. You're playing a strong killer that you are clearly good at, with builds that work well with your playstyle.
How is CoH an issue? If you hit a survivor then leave them because they try to bring you to an undesirable side of the map, they go and heal at the circle. This is 32 seconds of time they are spending healing, which translates into 32 seconds of slowdown you have earned for yourself by landing that hit (not including how long it takes for them to physically get to the circle).
Am I missing something, or is it almost 3am and I need to go to bed?
You are missing that CoH's self-heal takes 21.3 seconds because the 50% heal speed boost does affect it. (Though also, the boon being up means he also already got 14 seconds of slowdown)
-
CoH is not that strong anymore. It doesn't save enough time. It's just very high visibility, which is why it's popular and why it comes up as a possible reason why you're losing.
I wouldn't be surprised if the average win-rate for builds with CoH is actually lower than for builds without it.
-
@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347233#Comment_3347233
It was always an amazing perk before it got gutted. It was so amazing, killers had to always assume that survivors had it equipped, thus cooperating without knowing whether or not the survivor had it equipped. More often than not, killers would slug the unhooked person or just let them go, assuming they had DS, giving the survivor a chance to waste even more of the killers time by running to a loop or getting away, healing up and going back on gens.
It was such a strong perk that almost every good survivor had it equipped. It security to finish gens in the killers face, knowing if they got grabbed off of the gen, they will get away. It made it easy for teams to escape and prevented killers from killing unhooked people during endgame.
I would call that an amazing perk.
"It security to finish gens in the killers face, knowing if they got grabbed off of the gen, they will get away."
How would DS allow that?
It disables itself if you touch a gen.
-
@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348154#Comment_3348154
"We know" who ? you and who else ?
Anyway just cry fro more nerf and cry because there's tunnellng and camping i'm sure crying out is a valid solution, BHVR seems to listen to the survivor's desperate cry for help
Sure the only threath is BNP, sure. As long there are people like you, this game won't be better at all
You will never be satisfied anyway.
You forget that not all camping/tunnelling is done because killers struggle so badly to win the normal way. Lots of killers do it because it's easy, or specifically because they want to ruin the game for the survivors. The only way you'd make that change is if non-camping/tunnelling is MORE oppressive than those tactics. Which would just kill the game outright.
Not to mention that nothing stops killers from dropping the bar another notch if BHVR did try to take your approach. As long as you have tunnelling/camping to fall back on, you will do so. No matter how much the game is slanted in your favour, no matter how much your loss is your fault, if you can fall back on tunnelling/camping, you will do so.
That's why those tactics need to be uprooted, not coddled. They need to be entirely unappealing and inefficient choices. That's the only way that they're going to be fixed.
Sure the only threath is BNP, sure. As long there are people like you, this game won't be better at all
How much does anything else shave off, compared to BNP?
-
@Blinckx said:
The simplest solution would be to hard cap the bonuses that can stack together for repair speed. The speed of repair, alone, without perk or toolbox is 80 seconds, just put a hard cap that indicates that more than 20% bonus, at the same time, cannot be had or that, under 60 seconds, you cannot can go.
To solve the tunneling and camping problem, it is enough to encourage the killer to diversify his target, to stay away from the hook. For example thanatophobia/dyning light (without buff to survivors) basekit, or a generator gets blocked by the Entity if you are at least 24 meters from a survivor on the hook until it is unhooked.
But yeah, none of this will ever happen, seeing how much devs know about their own game
To solve the tunneling and camping problem, it is enough to encourage the killer to diversify his target
We know that this is absolutely not true. You're not going to solve tunnelling and camping by simply mega-buffing killers. You're only going to reduce those strategies by nerfing them with tailored solutions.
The simplest solution would be to hard cap the bonuses that can stack together for repair speed. The speed of repair, alone, without perk or toolbox is 80 seconds, just put a hard cap that indicates that more than 20% bonus, at the same time, cannot be had or that, under 60 seconds, you cannot can go.
This is also probably pretty untenable from a mechanical perspective, not to mention it's missing the mark. The only real threat to gen speed is BNP, that thing needs to be reworked.
-
When I found out that she has a brown add-on that can destroy pallets for her, I thought that half her kit would basically be in her add-ons, allowing her to customise how her power works.
But it seems that's not the case, sadly. Would've been cool if her drones were largely pointless by themselves, but got extended abilities from add-ons so you can mix and match and basically get a variety of different killer powers depending on your add-ons.
-
@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348019#Comment_3348019
I had this fight already.
Potential Energy slows down the Gen you pull from.
It makes the 3 Gen gen that you need to repair go much faster.
This was best used on old RPD, because it was easy to set up and the killer would often go pursue the remote gen you had pulled the energy from.
But, you know this. It also frustrates me when a new survivor pulls energy and dumps it into the same Gen, seemingly sabotaging the match.
That still doesn't make gens go faster though, it just makes them harder to lock down and hold. Potential Energy is still not a 'gens go faster' perk. If the killer never intended to just gen-squat, then Potential Energy can only slow gens down.
-
@Aurelle said:
It doesn't really help that survivors are getting an abundance of Gen perks, especially as of late (Overzealous, Potential Energy, Quick Gambit, etc.). Also BNPs existing.
Overzealous and Quick Gambit I'm pretty sure are at 0% pickrate, and Potential Energy makes gens go slower, not faster.
BNPs are garbage though and should've been removed years ago.
-
I might get the killer with shards, and might keep an eye out for that silent vaulting perk. The latter seems like it could be genuinely fun and useful, while the former... I think there's some potential in it.
-
@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347409#Comment_3347409
Because obviously a perk that turns the 2nd best Exhaustion perk into old DH is great design.
Groan.
Old DH didn't have a 'literally only once per trial' stipulation.
-
@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3346847#Comment_3346847
DS was once per game and it was amazing before it's nerf.
DS wasn't 'amazing' before the 6.1 dumpstering, it was a perk that required the killer's cooperation to function. 9/10 matches it'd do nothing.
Blood Rush will be way more consistent and less dependant on the killer's help.
-
@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3346780#Comment_3346780
or maybe you weren't saying anything that was meant to be hidden...I really want to know what you were saying now!
Folks better not be talking about Quentin Tarantino Q*entin again!
-
@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3346753#Comment_3346753
The chat filter is still on (both on PTB and Live) which is why I'm confused. It's normal for it not to flag things in custom games, but it should most definitely hide things that are meant to be hidden on Live.
Maybe it developed enough intelligence to realise it was doing a terrible job, and it just gave up.
-
The Dutch have been freed! Long have we awaited this day!
-
Gonna point out the same thing as with the old Stridor vs Iron Will: it's not one perk disabling it, it's four.
All survivors must have distortion to block aura reading in full. Aura perks still function even if one survivor is immune.
-
@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345811#Comment_3345811
One survivor can die in 2 minutes, the other three are already escaped the exit gate
And yes i have been faced those "insane condition" you mentioned, probably because i'm out the kindergaden low level MMR and i play usually vs competent sfw or similar players ? And, since those thing ARE possibile, even is difficult i can give you that, that mean they should prevent those condtion to happen. But again, hey it's healthy for the survivors so who care right ?
Kinda fun you didn't mention the other problems i have listed like maps or killers perks being useless or almost every m1 killers being a joke
But enjoy your healthy game, probably they will add killer bot in live game, so they get rid of the toxic killer player once for all
"And, since those thing ARE possibile, even is difficult i can give you that, that mean they should prevent those condtion to happen."
Why? You want two survivors healing a third while they're all injured, and both healers have botany, DM, one is the obsession while the killer has dying light, and has we'll make it active due to recent unhook, with all of that stacked, to just not get value out of any of that because... what, exactly?
These aren't efficient builds, but you get your knickers in a twist because when you cut out all of the context, on paper, it looks OP. I can guarantee you: it isn't.
If you're complaining about a guy getting a single two second heal off in one of fifty matches, you have no real issues to complain about.
-
@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343622#Comment_3343622
"Healtiest spot"
Generators can be done in 30 seconds
Healing speed can be reduced to 2 seconds
Almost every map is garbage for killers, god pallet linked to a vault to another god pallet (hello Decimated Borgo and Gared on Joy !)
M1 Killers are almost a joke right now, trapper ?Twins ? sadako ? freddy ? clown ? Sure fre killers stand out from the misery but others are just meh with no sign to a rework or fix
Survivors has 3 health state, basekit BT, soon they will receive also basekit unbreakable, what else ?Basekit DS why not
The majority of killer's perks are pure gargabe but they are going to fix a survivor perk because..reasons
Yep, the game is in the healtiest spot for a survivor indeed and dev are fully aware of what is healthy or not, in fact BNP, PT, Hyperfocus, CoH and many other healty perks for the survivors are untouched, maps are so balanced you can loop a killers for days and that's so healty. They also have reworked Eyre and now you can have 5 pallets spawn in 4 adiacent tiles , indeed so healthy.
And yeah, it's so healty right now that a lot of those unhealthy, ungrateful, moronic killers are just asking to have a slight adjustment to the requests they are making, like Corrupt Intervention as Basekit, Fov slider, have a cap of gen repairs speed but, who cares ? as long in the low mmr killers have an high kill ration it's fine and healthy
"Generators can be done in 30 seconds
Healing speed can be reduced to 2 seconds"
And survivors can die in under two minutes. What's your point?
Do you know how many conditions need to be stacked on each other to get those numbers? You're not getting thirty second gens against you. You're not getting two second healing against you.
-
@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343622#Comment_3343622
I don't remember seeing any buffs. Certainly you are not refering to the Knight being fixed to not be completely useless, right? Certainly you aren't refering to last July when small numerical adjustments had no improving impact in any significant way. I know you are not refering to anything in between simply because there were no buffs for killers. What are you on about?
"Certainly you aren't refering to last July when small numerical adjustments had no improving impact in any significant way."
Why are you discrediting these compounding buffs? Those are subtle, but hugely impactful. What are you expecting for killer buffs? Survivors get a hookstate removed? A sixth gen added?
They can't blindly mega-buff killers, they have to keep balance in mind.
-
@Sillymare said:
In my experience, swf groups have 1 or more goals in mind:
1. To keep Everyone updated on killer's position.(aka: they know you're coming before you even have a chance to find them. )
2. To piss the killer off so bad that by the end of the match the odds of a broken tv/monitor/controller is 80% or higher.
3. To troll the killer the entire match while they laugh at how they 360'd you 4 times ending with a pallet drop stun and flashlight blind.
Usually it's all 3. So yes, I judge swf ad they are some of the most toxic players in this community.
That's a selective bias, though. If there's a bully squad, you know they're in a swiffer. But any non-bully swiffer team, you'll have no idea.
So that 'usually' is really just based on the fact that you only recognise your opponents as a swiffer if they're bullying.
-
Roughly every single change made by the devs will get this exact thread made about it.
-
@NewPlayer100102 said:
Its 24 meters, which is small.
Why would you take away the opponents ability to counter your counter to CoB?
24 meters is pretty big for the survivors, since it's 6 seconds of highly visible running. That's a pretty big deal.
-
@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344788#Comment_3344788
Because the game is only of survs right? Seven seconds for survs are nothing, for killer are like gold seven seconds.
Because there's four survivors and one killer. So one second for the killer is four for the survivors.
But those 7 seconds shaved off with PT are 7 -survivor- seconds, not 7 -killer- seconds.
-
Oh, now the non-euclideans are whining. Jeeze, at least you guys didn't get nerfed all last year!
-
It just swings. During the day, most people are at work, so it's harder to get a swiffer together. Solo queue is awful to play, so there's very few survivors actually queueing up.
Then at night, when people are back home and have some free time, the swiffers come out, and then there's enough survivors.
It's basically in a balanced spot right now.
-
@DyingWish92 said:
I keep seeing people saying PT "only" saves 7 seconds on a gen. You people do realize 7 seconds is a lot in killer time right? Maybe not in survivor time as they have 4 people running around doing objectives. 7 seconds extra in chase can sometimes cost a killer a game. Time is quadrupled in importance for a killer as opposed to survivor as you have you and only you to win.
But it's not the killer's time, it's the survivors' time. Those seven seconds are just that, seven seconds.
-
@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344575#Comment_3344575
Even if it takes longer to reach for survivors, that’s more than worth it if it also makes it take longer to reach for the killer to the point where they can’t afford to repeatedly snuff it because they give up too much pressure doing so.
I’d say over half the time, if CoH ends up being a net-negative for survivors because it got snuffed before they got back their time investment from it, it’s because the survivors misplayed.
Yes, but that's half of the problem with having CoH be far out of the way. The other half is that it slows down the one thing it is supposed to do: Expedite healing. If a survivor has to run halfway across the map to get to CoH and heal up, and then back again, that's going to take so much additional time that the killer doesn't need to snuff it out. CoH can lose its benefit if it is too far away.
Especially in a coordinated team, one person can bring Botany to pull off the same value, without the 14 second set-up time, reliance on totems, and risk of getting snuffed.
Just from my experience of using the perk, seeing it being used, and having it used against me, I really don't see this perk pull that much weight in the vast majority of matches.
-
@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344548#Comment_3344548
But nearly every map has some totem that covers a wide area and is hard to access for the killer. Also are you just assuming every survivor has a med-kit or is next to another survivor to heal them? What makes CoH crazy is that 4 people have an infinite source of healing that everyone can use at once. In solo, you don't need to run around looking for teammates. In a swf it just lets you reset faster as a team. Quite a few maps have hard to reach places in the center of the action such as: Ironworks, Thompson house, rpd, badham, Garden and Eyrie just to name a few
But if they're hard to reach, that also means it takes longer to set them up and to take advantage of them.
-
@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344467#Comment_3344467
I said decent spot. If the killer has to go into a dead zone, walk to the top of ironworks or anything like that it's inefficient. If you are setting up boons next to an unfinished gen, what was the point.
But setting it up out of the way also reduces CoH's efficiency. What's the use of shaving off 4 seconds of healing time if it takes you 6 seconds to get there?
CoH still needs to be somewhat close to the action, otherwise it risks losing its benefits.
-
@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344042#Comment_3344042
The issue is that there is no counterplay to boons on the killer side. If put in a even decent spot, it will always more efficient overall for survivors to have that boon down. CoH wouldn't have had to be nerfed to 50% if there was any downside to just booning every time the killer goes out of their way to snuff it.
That's not true at all. As others have mentioned, you can lose games from survivors wasting time setting up a boon.
If the killer snuffs CoH before a survivor can get a heal out of it, that's a major dent in the survivors' efficiency.
-
@Witchubtet said:
I think the issue with boons is if they make them too strong they’d have to make that useless boon destroying perk base kit. Because on some maps you can effectively cover like 30% of them with a boons. Especially if it has vertically like DDS or RPD. It’s the same reason they don’t want to buff some Hex’s
Hexes aren't location-bound though.
But yeah, maps with verticality are the biggest spanner in the balancing works. The Game, Midwich and RPD can really push boons to be significantly stronger than having one out in the cornfield on the Coldwinds.
-
@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344042#Comment_3344042
This is probably one of your few takes that I totally disagree with
COH is "not a problem" many times because it's just the random mikaela that boons 8 times the same totem in an area the killer already wants to pressure, wasting a whole gen in progress. COH shows it's true strength when survivors apply a minimum of reason when placing it. A well placed COH, in an area where gens are done, and where generally the killer would have to waste a lot of time to reach just to snuff it, is insanely strong, because any possible pressure they can get is nullified by the survivor running over there. The killer ends up in a lose/lose situation: commit to the survivor in an area where it makes it difficult to reach back the generators being worked on in time, or drop the chase, giving the survivor the chance to reset their pressure.
It's just like (old?) DH, bad players making bad use of it don't affect the potential strength of the perk
And this without even taking into consideration some totem placements (main building top floors) that are extremely excruciating to reach for killers, but for 1 survivor out of 4 is just a mild deviation from the main route
A well placed COH, in an area where gens are done, and where generally the killer would have to waste a lot of time to reach just to snuff it, is insanely strong, because any possible pressure they can get is nullified by the survivor running over there.
I don't see it that way, because if the killer drops a chase on an injured survivor, they lose that pressure anyway. CoH doesn't really change this, it's not like survivors are permanently injured. Nothing is stopping the injured survivor from finding a teammate and getting healed by them, possibly faster than they could get healed off CoH.
The only thing CoH does is improve consistency a little bit, as the survivor doesn't need to find another survivor in order to heal up, but that comes at the expense of being slower than just getting healed by a teammate, even without CoH.
If the killer is patrolling a 3-gen, you do need the boon to be close, otherwise the extra time lost ferrying back and forth is going to cut into the ability to break the 3-gen hold.
I don't know, I'm just not seeing that much value come out of it. I've done much better with other healing perks.
-
@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344055#Comment_3344055
But kill rates doesn't mean anything, it would be a problem if kill rate is like 90%. In a match there are 4 survs, so obviously kill rate will be higher than escape rate (in every match at least one surv die, so you know), but Devs doesn't count suicide, rage quit and things like this, they only see "Oh this month's died 7728293939393 survs", they don't see "Oh ok, this month's died 73839292939393 survs, but half of this are suicide on first hook and a 25% is from ragequit" for example. If this are numbers, then, are still wrong numbers. For the next kill rate I would like to see every %, % of suicide and % of ragequit, so we will see if actually kill rate is this high and, if it will go higher after the next patch, is because killer will hard tunnel more and play only strong killers, so they maybe have a chance against good swf.
Okay, first of all, address the gear shift. Your initial argument against kill rates was that 'low MMR is responsible'. Now that that's been kicked out the window, you're changing tactics. Not very proper.
Secondly, you mention ragequits: The devs have specified that matches in which any party DCs are immediately discounted for the purpose of stat tracking. These averages are built ONLY on matches where all players played to the end.
Thirdly, you mention hook suicides, but how do you think that's going to affect top 5% MMR? Because if survivors are wont to hook-suicide with any level of frequency high enough to have an impact on these stats, how are they still in top 5% MMR? Surely intentionally ruining your own games would see your MMR decline?
so we will see if actually kill rate is this high and, if it will go higher after the next patch, is because killer will hard tunnel more and play only strong killers, so they maybe have a chance against good swf.
So how are you going to argue that the devs are survivor sided when the kill rate is at 61% at top MMR and you predict that these changes are going to push those rates further upwards? Hard tunnelling and strong killers aren't things that pop into existence because Eruption is getting nerfed, those are already in the game. If they are capable of pushing kill rates -up- from 61%, then they are blatantly overpowered, and for some reason are not getting addressed.
How does that make the devs survivor-sided?
-
@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342812#Comment_3342812
1) Learn to counter her instead of crying for nerfs, I can mind game Nurse (I don't say loop anymore because then someone comes out and say "yOu cAN't lOOp Nurse1!1!1!1"). Obviously a real good nurse is really hard near impossible to mind game, but it's the same with every killer, just S tier are hard to counter (but at the same time is ok because are hard to master)
2) Same as point 1
3) Spirit is strong only with mother daughter, she isn't that broken anymore. And same as point 1 and 2.
4) If you play in soloq or you're swf is full of noob, it's not my problem. Me and my swf manage di save also with noed (one destroy noed and the others distract the killer).
5) That 70% is in the whole MMR, not only in high MMR or low MMR. In low MMR is really high, because survs doesn't even know how to run, in high MMR kill rate is lower because high MMR is dominated by swf and, without hard tunneling, killer have hard life.
Yeah, people should stop being carried by perk, right survs carried by DH, prove thyself, otr and so on?
That 70% is in the whole MMR, not only in high MMR or low MMR. In low MMR is really high, because survs doesn't even know how to run, in high MMR kill rate is lower because high MMR is dominated by swf and, without hard tunneling, killer have hard life.
IIRC, kill rates have consistently been higher in high MMR than in low MMR.
Latest statistics, from October, indicated the average kill rate over all MMRs was 59.1% (Pretty high), whereas the average kill rate in the top 5% MMR was 61.3%.
So no, low MMR is not pushing the kill rates up. High MMR is.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344042#Comment_3344042
can you really blame killer for wanting survivor perks to get nuked? that is what survivor do to most killer perks... see latest one being eruption. with current tradjectory, if survivor kept getting their way on every perk, the killer will have no perks that help them win. it is same with survivor perks following the killer perk treatment.
Eruption didn't get that many complaints, and the only complaint it got was that 25 seconds of incapacitation just puts the game on pause for them. BHVR's the one that went scorched earth on it.
BHVR is absolutely not listening to survivors.
-
@BlueHorkew said:
All boon perks, that are not COH, are basically just a killer perk, they are a waste of time.
Why do i think that? Simple, their effects are niche and second the boon range.
None of the other boons have universally good effects like COH, they could be helpful or they could do nothing but waste time setting a boon.
Secod the range issue, COH is the only boon that benefits for being faraway from a killer while whole the other boons require you to be in the zone of a killer, thats why the range is not an issue for COH, COH could have a range of 2m and would still be as good as it is.
While all the other boons are just a waste of time, their range is short, require you to take the killer to the boon, so making them easier to remove, which just makes you waste more time.
Boons, if not COH are a waste of time.
I am not saying this for them not to nerf COH, but saying that boon perks in general are just badly designed because COH is so strong compared to the others.
CoH loses part of its benefit if it's too out of the way though. What use is shaving 4 seconds off healing time if you have to spend 6 seconds getting into its range? At that point, healing on the spot would be faster.
I don't think CoH is as big of a deal as people are making it out to be, and it's frustrating that the most common take on it is to just nuke all boons from the game forever when only one boon actually sees regular use.
-
@Thralfazuz said:
A killer with unique power because lately a lot of killers are just copied from another killer already in the game, for example:
knight=artist
Sadako=Dredge
nurse=Wesker
but If he is not unique I don't mind as long as it is fun to play, like Wesker.
Some goofy as perks, for both killers and survivors, a good example: head on, franlin's,etc.These perks are not meta but you have good time messing around. No perks like see the gen aura or another info perk for killers.
I don't think it would be even possible to create a new aura perk since the perks that we currently have already cover everything.
See surv. aura when:
if opening locker, if surv. healing nearby, kick gen to reveal surv nearby, hook a surv to see far away, if surv unhooks, when a gen is completed, if surv hits great skillcheck, if surv destroys hex, if killer stomps boon, if surv. is close to dull totem, when the killer can't be blinded, when surv is in dying state.
I wouldn't mind perks that force you to hit skillchecks, makes it more interactive to both sides, but that is just my opinion.
What are yours expectations with this chapter?
Okay, Sadako and Dredge, I get the similarities, but how on earth are Artist and Knight alike? They're wildly different!
@dspaceman20 said:
I hope we get a new boon perk for survivors. There is still kre you can do with Boons that there can't only be four.
New boon would be good, new scourgehook, new obsession perk could be interesting too!
I'd also like it if they incorporated glyphs into regular play through perks.
-
@Steakdabait said:
This idea will just make the bad boons actually unusable and not effect smartly placed COH that much
I'd wager it'd also delete CoH from viability. Why take a perk that requires 14 seconds to set up and can just be permanently disabled if the killer finds a very loud, very bright totem, when there's other healing perks that allow you to pull similar feats?
-
@Warlord1981NL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343333#Comment_3343333
Can we get some re-placable Hexes too then, mr killer main? Most of them have no bite to them either...
Hexes are nuts powerful in comparison to boons.
Conversely, would you be okay with boons being buffed to Hex level powers if they were to be permanently snuffed by the killer?
-
@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343549#Comment_3343549
Being a gameplay destroyer perk to a specific killer while also being quite decent against others is quite a deal. Old Iron Will was a stupid counterplay to Spirit while also being okayish against any other killer, hence why it was nerfed. What makes Exponential better is the fact that only one person needs to use it to give the benefit to the entire team, while with Iron Will everyone had to have their own, so there is much less risk with the boon.
Oni, Plague, and Myers have their gameplay centered around slugging, because slugging is the efficient way of playing them. Exponential wouldn't be a problem for them if you could know whether the survivors have it or not. If this was the case, they could decide on the least efficient play and not slug if they know there is an Exponential, but since they don't they have to guess and possibly get surprised by it in the worst case possible.
In Twins case, what makes Exponential their perfect counterplay is that, unlike the other three killers I mentioned before, they are completely reliant on slugging. Since Charlotte is a potato, you will normally spend most of your gameplay as Victor. If you didn't want to slug, you would have to keep going back to Charlotte, walk to the place you downed the survivor, and only then place them on a hook. This takes a ridiculous amount of time, especially on big maps so it is necessary for the Twins go for big slugs. What makes it even worse is that Victor can't snuff totems, so if there is a boon you probably will just ignore it because going back to Charlotte and snuffing it is a momentum breaker.
Being a gameplay destroyer perk to a specific killer while also being quite decent against others is quite a deal.
But it's -not- a decent perk against others. It's hard-countered by pressing spacebar. Most killers won't care. And even if they do, the boon is still incredibly conditional, and can still be easily circumvented.
Oni, Plague, and Myers have their gameplay centered around slugging, because slugging is the efficient way of playing them.
But that's on the assumption that said killers are chasing multiple slugs in the same area which happens to have been booned before, but not so far before that the killer found and snuffed it. If there's only one person in the boon area and the Plague/Myers does not have any other target nearby, why would they slug at all to begin with?
Oni's not going to stick around in the same spot for any amount of time either, since his snowball is specifically also tied to mobility. Plague might stick around, but then she can also easily re-down people if they get up. It might be decent against Myers, but if he gets multiple downs off the same stalk, your team is still in a bad position even if one manages to get up.
And all of this ultimately just turns an immediate win for the killer into merely extremely high pressure for the killer. And that's IF you're up against any of these four and they don't counterplay it. If you're up against anyone else, the perk's a dead slot.
It's only a true problem for the twins. And everything is a problem for the twins, so that's not a good reference point.
-
@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343469#Comment_3343469
Exponential is incredibly strong, especially if you are playing a killer which is rewarded for slugging.
The case is even worse against Twins, since it is a perk that feels designed to destroy this killer.
No killer is uniquely rewarded for slugging. It's just a consequence of the playstyle for Twins. And even against them, I wouldn't bet on the perk being of much use due to its range restriction and counterplay.
And even then, the perk only being useful against Twins does not make it a useful perk overall.
-
@GlamourousLeviathan said:
Just make Shattered Hope base kit and boons would be fine.
Dark Theory would need a buff after that though and perhaps Shadow Step as well. Other than that, the other two boons would be fine.
How on earth would Exponential be fine? It's already garbage tier.