FerrousFacade
FerrousFacade
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@Nazzzak said:
To be fair, the community often gives mixed messaging when it comes to tunnelling. Just as many people would prefer team mates smash gens rather than follow them around when being tunnelled. I know if I'm being tunnelled, I would rather my team mates get as much gen progress as possible to make the most of the time I'm buying.
Its just so much more situational than its given credit for, same with healing under hook. If I know where they are, am already nearby, can insert myself without sandbagging, and am not doing something else important then I will take a hit and run off or maybe take the down for them if the team seems to be in a position to handle the situation that creates or I have a perk that makes it OK.
There are just so many reasons why it equally wouldn't be a good idea, I have no idea where they are, I do know where they are but its cross map, we are at one or two gens left and getting close to popping, something has exposed me… Tips for survivor are so often treated as an always do or don't do thing but the role just isn't as simplistic as these tips treat it.
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Its a hard mindset to get out of, I personally don't feel the need to win every one of my matches but it would be lying to claim a part of me isn't always thinking about and stressing over whether or not I am going to win or lose and what I could do to push the odds in my favor. We all want to win to some extent, its human nature.
Losses in this particular game are just frustrating and stressful. I mention this in many places but will here as well, the game just tends to snowball for one side or the other and when that snowball is going against you you feel hopeless. Its not a fun feeling on either side but that feeling gets compounded on the killer side because you are alone against four other players. I have pulled those matches back like you have but agree that they are often not fun matches even when you end up winning. The game would be funner and feel less frustrating if matches had a lot more back and forth and feel like anyone could come out on top at any moment.
The game just does a poor job of making fun the goal of the game. Now fun is different to different people and we have a mish mash of types playing this game. The real problem is that they all get thrown together and you feel forced to sweat regardless of if you think that is fun if you want to stand a chance of winning. If your opponent is sweating and you are not you will lose and it probably won't be a fun match for you. It particularly doesn't help that a loss will always feel dragged out, on the killer side because there might still be gens left you know you can't defend (plus exit gate stupidity) and on survivor you can just be waiting to die (you can sometimes still have a decent chase at least).
While some of it is changing your mindset and doing exactly what you did, going for cool shots, trying a totally new strategy, or finding something within a match you enjoy outside of just winning (jump scaring someone as a stealth killer will always be my favorite thing to do in the game), the game itself could do a better job of promoting fun. I think far more people would be in favor of "casualizing" the game than we think or a casual vs ranked split, so long as it gets done in a way that promotes fun for everyone and remains at least somewhat competitive. Another thing the game itself could do is shake up the meta more often than they do now so you feel like you have new toys to play with more often and not just new killers.
2v8 is far and away my favorite way to play the game. Getting two tapped isn't fun and the comeback mechanic has flaws but I still find it overall more fun on both sides because it is clearly intended to be a more casual mode and I care a lot less about winning when most things are insanely powerful (some killers could still use some more buffs). It can still snowball but its harder and I suspect those extremes will get smoothed out over time. I get that it harms killer queue times in 1v4 for those that don't enjoy the mode but having the more casual option gives players a place to go when they truly don't want to sweat. Its also a much better introduction to the game than 1v4 is, I wouldn't introduce someone new to the game in 1v4 but 2v8 is perfect for them. If 2v8 or some other casual mode was permanent we could funnel casual players over to it which would likely make solo queue a better time and more meta changes to 1v4 possibly become more viable than they currently are.
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The poison has been a bigger frustration to play against than anything survivor got. I've only lost twice on killer and I would have lost to those teams with or without the event features. There is legitimately nothing you can do against a killer that is using the poison to tunnel you, you will just die.
Event exacerbates balance issues, whoever was going to win before is still likely to win in the event just harder than they would have without it.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096768#Comment_4096768
A quick example from a game im CURRENTLY in, lol.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XOWQY7L2UJTB/1000002377.jpg
Who do you think id say is the "bad" survivor? Mind you, if I wasn't planning on 2 hooking cuz they brought me cakes they'd be screwed, but... when I dont see you all game, your teammates have to carry those hooks. These 4 all escaped btw...
The only conclusion anyone should draw from that image is that the matchmaking system made a mistake. There are five gens remaining and all but one player is on death hook, you are clearly more skilled than these survivor but that doesn't make any of them bad necessarily.
You could just have easily ignored the sable all match. I've had plenty of killers ignore me after a single good chase. I'm not saying you did but hook states like that can be achieved in multiple ways.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096761#Comment_4096761
I dont think ppl DO think all survivors are bad. A large issue is 1 bad survivor can cause the whole team to lose. This is why its much easier for content creators to make KILLER winstreaks rather than to try to do the same as survivor. 1 crappy teammate can RUIN you.
Then I thank you for being reasonable and understanding my position. However, there are tons of people that DO think the average survivor is bad. Someone saying exactly that is literally the only reason I bothered responding to this thread.
The main reason solo queue is often a frustrating experience is that the average player is just not very good and often has terrible game sense, or they are doing side quests for achievements that don’t do anything to help your team win.
I have nothing to go on about what they actually think except what they say and it's exactly what they said. I can easily find multiple content creators saying exactly the same as well, perhaps they don't actually believe it and are only saying it for their audience but that audience absolutely believes it.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096723#Comment_4096723
Unless you want a game where the exact same counter works for EVERY character and they are essentially just skins... people are going to have to learn how to deal with these killers. I dont think its asking too much for people to understand the pig hat is bad and should be removed.
I literally went out of my way to say I don't want that. My only ask is that people stop painting all survivors with the same brush because of certain players.
I get a single survivor like that in the same lobby as me and I get labeled bad because of it. Why is it so hard to understand that I just want that to stop and for this community to stop being ok with putting down survivors. I don't care if you call those specific survivors bad but "the average survivor is bad" isn't true.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096723#Comment_4096723
Side note I know that tip sounds silly but I've unironically done that or set off a fog vial as a distraction if someone's died and there's only one gen left to get the killer's attention so they don't go over to the last gen being worked on and it's actually worked out. 9/10 I wouldn't recommend doing it but it's an idea that does have it's place.
And I would say any killer that worked on wasn't thinking.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096697#Comment_4096697
Im not saying everyone should know every little detail. Expecting every survivor to know every hole deathslinger can shoot through is dumb. I DO think they should have some minimum knowledge though about many of them. A survivor can use common sense to determine the blinking party hat that Pig gave them isn't for decoration and once again... to try not to get sick or spread sickness against Plague. If you dont know how to loop Spirit... you get hooked no biggy. If you dont know to try to stay healthy against Oni, you get the whole team killed.
Alot of this info is on the loading screen for these people to read.
The loading screen also tells you to drop pallets as a distraction.
Those hints only come up the first couple of times you face a given killer. If you are facing pig for the fourth time and you are a casual player that doesn't play too often the last time you faced pig or plague might have been months ago. I am playing a different game than these players are, we just end up in the same lobby.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096628#Comment_4096628
I feel like alot of the killer counterplay issues DO require a minimum knowledge. You dont want your teammates to cleanse against Plague for example, then go right back to touching an infected gen. Thats not Plague being OP, thats a single survivor teammate giving her all the fountains in the world. I remember seeing plenty of clips of ppl playing old Myers with perma T3 and youd always have that 1 survivor having a staring contest with him.
But that is exactly my point, a more casual player cannot possibly be expected to know exactly how 43 different killer powers work and how to counterplay them, let alone have faced that specific killer enough times to be able to consistently execute any specific counterplay they may have. A casual killer can fairly easily one trick a stronger killer and expect decent results. All this leads to a very simple conclusion, the skill floor to do decently on survivor is higher than on killer. I do want to emphasize skill floor, obviously things change as we are talking about players who are more and more skilled at the game.
I am not saying this is a problem nor am I asking it to change, I enjoy that the game works like that. All I am asking is to stop with the blanket "the average survivor is bad" because it is being used to dismiss legitimate concerns, is statistically improbable, and has resulted in this community having a culture that is OK putting down survivor players. Unless there is an incredibly good reason to think otherwise a standard distribution of player skill should be assumed and while this game is different from others its not weird enough to think a standard distribution of skill doesn't apply.
I am also not saying make the game easier for them but accept that this is an issue of matchmaking and not the survivors fault. All it takes is a single survivor being below par for the killer to win, as you noted, but I can't blame that player since its likely a match they shouldn't have been in in the first place. Too many killer players will snowball into a win from that one actually bad player and then claim that every survivor in the lobby was bad when it was just that one survivors fault. Balancing in this game would be totally different if matchmaking worked but unless matchmaking actually changes (I wouldn't count on it) this wishy washy balancing feels necessary.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096590#Comment_4096590
Nobody is talking about memorizing the counterplay to every killer obviously that takes a lot of time but people are failing basic pattern recognition of "oh the last two times someone got unhooked the killer went straight back to hook so this third time I'm....gonna demand you heal me under this hook because surely this time the killer won't come back" like again sympathetic to soloQ but there does need to be just some amount of forethought from survivor players.
The main reason solo queue is often a frustrating experience is that the average player is just not very good and often has terrible game sense, or they are doing side quests for achievements that don’t do anything to help your team win.
a lot of players never take time to learn about looping techniques, how to pay attention to HUD, how to counter killer powers/strategies, macro gameplay strategy, etc.
These are the statements I took issue with, blanket statements that the average survivor is bad and refuses to learn. So yes someone here is talking about memorizing the counterplay to every killer and the layout of every map and expecting it as a baseline for survivor players.
I don't disagree that certain players play in a brain dead manner but I have examples of that on both sides not just survivor. I also completely disagree with the notion that survivor doesn't take mechanical skill, they are mechanically simple but that isn't the same thing.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
The main reason solo queue is often a frustrating experience is that the average player is just not very good and often has terrible game sense, or they are doing side quests for achievements that don’t do anything to help your team win. After playing both sides for a long time, I’ve come to the conclusion that the frustrations in solo queue are like 90% due to bad teammates and 10% due to broken/OP killers. It’s why I often disagree when I see posts about the game being too killer-sided.
I was a brand new player once so I remember what it was like to not know what I was doing (heck, we all were at one time, right?), but a lot of players never take time to learn about looping techniques, how to pay attention to HUD, how to counter killer powers/strategies, macro gameplay strategy, etc.The average player is average, unless you can you give a compelling reason why you think skill in this game doesn't follow a standard bell curve. If the average player is average but we consider the average survivor to be bad then we can state that the skill floor required to do decently on survivor is higher than it is on killer. You cannot fault players for the game expecting more of one side than the other. I am not saying this is a bad thing by the way, it is how I want the game to be balanced, I think survivor should be harder to win on than killer but the endless trashing of survivors as bad needs to stop.
You were a brand new player once but I think you have forgotten how much you had to learn and how much time it took. There are 43 killers in the game and that number is going to continue going up. There are some similarities in how to play against some of them but each one does have unique things you should do against them.
There are 44 maps in the game, each one spawning loops, structures, and generators in different locations. I know that Dead Dawg Saloon tends to three gen around gallows and to ignore the main building but that takes time to learn. We again have some similarities with shared gym tiles but to be most successful you need to chain those to other resources and that differs heavily map to map.
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This tournament also saw extensive use of Fast Track before its most recent change and it clearly had a large impact on the tournament with almost every survivor running it plus a BNP in the finals. If you re-ran the tournament today would we see the same results? Probably not. Its kind of the way it is for live service games, the results of a specific event are only relevant until changes are made. You can look at longer running stats for general trends but patch to patch could see very different results.
Comp matches going for hooks are also just incredibly different from normal matches (as you noted). Sometimes a killer will camp a single player to death because three hooks with only one fresh is their win condition. The only thing they have to care about is securing that single kill and if every other survivor escapes it doesn't matter, they weren't playing for a win in the pub match sense.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096312#Comment_4096312
You keep up because survivors still suck ass at the game amd give up underhook dc at the smallest thing.
If being average at survivor isn't enough to do decently at survivor then it isn't the survivors being bad, its the skill floor required to do well being higher on survivor than killer. The average player is average that is how averages work. I guarantee player skill in this game follows a typical bell curve and you would need an incredibly compelling reason to believe it doesn't. It isn't the players fault that the game expects more of survivors than it does of killers, especially when matchmaking is as bad as it is. I am not saying this is a bad thing by the way but ignoring this means faulty assessments of the game.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096411#Comment_4096411
Literally everyone, even the most survivor-biased players, concede that this is a very survivor-sided event. Speed boosts, free heals, free teleports, free invisibility, free invisibility, unbreakable pallets that make literal infinite loops - like, what else do you want?
You really need to try playing killer sometime and I think it would do a lot to help you gain some perspective.I disagree, the event isn't nearly as survivor sided as its being made out to be. I haven't lost as killer in the event queue at all, 24 matches. Its mildly survivor sided at best, killers should have gotten more to interact with but that doesn't mean its very survivor sided. Speed boost, invis, or invuln survivors only get one of these. Pallets, teleports (which the killer can use as well), or action speed once again its one of these not all three.
Killers get free hit/down poison and have to do absolutely nothing to gain access to it, it recharges on a timer. I have been frustrated playing against some of the things survivors have gotten but the poison is significantly more frustrating to play against to me. Unless we are talking about a sweaty four man the killer has the advantage but that isn't any different to outside the event.
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@keccho said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096355#Comment_4096355
I play on the Asia server.
The top-tier Survivors there are so highly skilled that, when they coordinate via voice chat, they become virtually unstoppable unless the Killer is playing one of the few truly powerful characters.
In particular, there are several Killers who have no effective counter-strategy against groups that include a member dedicated to a support role using "Shadow Step."This is just pure falsehood pushed by content creators, its just content for money generation sake and if it involves putting down survivors they know it will get views. The difference in kill rates is far more likely driven by killer selection and more killers playing on controllers (supposedly at least), nothing actually points towards them being more skilled the world cup tournament certainly didn't.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096269#Comment_4096269
The constant buffs to the rest of the game around those perks like more pallets more hook timer survivors spawning separated and people just getting better over time. And no people dont play the first because hes just weak and his counterplay is easy hes not bad but he not powerful sense his counterplay is to just run but not in a straight line. Killers dont want it easy they want it fair the effort should be rewarded but its not killer feels like a 9 to 5 while survivor I can win while watching a video.
If the Henry player is good at predicting survivor movement and hitting their shots there is no real counterplay on the survivor side. The survivor is not dodging Henry, they are just making it as hard as possible for Henry to place the vines in the right spot made even harder after you factor ping in. A truly good Henry is closest to Nurse where your best bet is to just find a far corner to die in and I actually enjoy facing Henry because its different to most other killers. The notion that his counterplay is just not running in a straight line comes from the plethora of players that haven't put the time into learning Henry, he is anything but weak. If the survivor is in LOS and the Henry misses that is on the Henry entirely.
The pallet changes didn't happen in a vacuum. We see people point towards strong survivor perks as a problem but those haven't been touched in years while that same timeframe saw the release of many popular and strong killers. If you want a reason why some of the weaker killers in the roster cannot keep up its because they have to exist in the same game as the stronger killers. Survivors don't have a choice but to be prepared to face those stronger killers and if survivors cannot keep up with the strong killers in at least some matches then killers will stop having survivors to play against.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096169#Comment_4096169
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/12E2UK3GRJRL/image.png
Yet I don't get it, the poison is so broken I can play even "Bad" killers this event, the fact unknowns poison and tricksters knives don't remove the poison means I can just set up and kill them with little resistance.
sure they insta heal sometimes but the time to down is so quick it doesnt matter.
Killers keep saying "Survivors aren't as good as they think" well.. sorry to say but it's the other way around, I think killers despite having all the power to adapt, won't.
Like I can say things are annoying sure, but both sides deal with annoying stuff, not to mention I can bet you the stats reflect this. They should share them so far, wasn't this year about being transparent, it'd keep the complainers quiet.And those "bad" killers are not even the strongest thing you can do with the poison or the hardest you can counter the mode. Plague laughs at the insta-heal and with the poison it doesn't matter that you are M1 most of the time. I am sure everyone that plays survivor has run into poison bubba, billy, or legion by this point. I can agree that some of these strategies are boring and killers should have gotten more to interact with but claiming the event is wildly survivor sided is crazy to me, its a little survivor sided at best.
Everyone acts like survivors get invis, invuln, and speed in every match when each match only gives them one of those and one of action speed, portals, or unbreakable pallets. Some of this is annoying to face for sure but the poison is much more frustrating to me.
On the topic at hand, I wonder how much data BHVR has about the grind in this game and how much it promotes continued play. I don't think they realize that eventually that strategy backfires once people realize they can never complete it. Its not like the game plans to stop adding tons of new characters any time soon.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095884#Comment_4095884
Killer is not a stressful role at all lol. Seriously survivors don't have an automatic win button like killers do. All you need to do is camp or tunnel at you get at minimum a two kill. Throw on noed and deadlock and you are gonna get three or four. Super easy.
Maybe you don't find killer stressful but most people do, I certainly do. I find I have to try harder to win on the survivor side but that doesn't make it more stressful.
None of that is an I win button, its highly dependent on the skill of the survivor being tunneled and the killer tunneling them. IF they get the tunnel out it might not be fast enough to secure anything more than that one kill. I can agree that if the killer gets the tunnel out very early into the match the rest of the survivors are probably trapped in an unwinnable match but victory isn't totally out of the question. The game should do more to give survivors a reason to continue trying in that situation but that is a general problem with the game.
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@SpookyBoiGaming said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095790#Comment_4095790
Listen, if BHVR caused MintSkull to take a hiadous because of the poor state of balance, then you know you ######### up. Yeah so? The reason why we get the 4k is because we play against bad Survivors. When we play games against Survivors that actually know what they're doing, it is BRUTAL! And all these new Survivor perks are getting crazier and crazier. And Survivors could just IGNORE the food and do what they normally do. When the event ends, you'll see how brutal the Survivors can get, especially with the newest healing perk from the latest Survivor.
You at least see my point, right? That Survivors are getting handholded while being a Killer can be miserable, right?
The reason why we get the 4k is because we play against bad Survivors. When we play games against Survivors that actually know what they're doing, it is BRUTAL!
This is just you saying: when I play against players worse than me I win. When I play against players better than me I lose. Which is what's supposed to happen.
Small differences in skill in this game result in big differences in how trials play out. That doesn't make your opponents bad, this game just snowballs for one side or the other.
The exact same thing happens for survivors. When survivors face a killer worse than them the killer gets run for five gens. When survivors face a killer better than them everyone dies with many gens remaining, its BRUTAL as you put it. That is just how this game tends to play out, close matches are rarer than blowouts unfortunately.
That's before talking about how bad matchmaking is or the fact killers have more ways to snowball and can start their snowball from a much worse position then survivors can. Unless you are one of the best killers in the world facing one of the top survivor teams in the world the trial most likely favors the killer.
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@Lethal_premium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095750#Comment_4095750
Okay but you have enough for SB and that alone is enough to make chases last long enough for a gen to pop if your good, and yes if they all spawn I can interpret them and get free pressure, however I hit one and the rest all SB or Lithe away and WoO space bar.
If the gen is popping in 30 seconds solo from a solo build then no you don't have enough space for SB. If everyone SBs or Lithes away they don't have full gen rush builds and you have interrupted ALL of their gen progress, you are in a winning position and the match has just started. Complaints about WoO will never stop being funny to me, the survivor is just as bad as they were without it, if you can't down someone because they have WoO its a skill issue on your part. I would much rather every survivor have WoO than another perk that is likely to be significantly more impactful to the match.
@Lethal_premium said:
Also here's a video that proves gen speeds are ludicrous
https://youtu.be/fN_ZUUNTzic?si=gb9yFghNYxg43iCX
even if they are comp players a two minute escape should not be possible period.seconds
Are you seriously ignoring that this took: a comp team, many attempts, a survivor sided map, full builds dedicated to just this, a bad killer (or at least a killer that played poorly in this match), and the killer to choose to sit on top of a slug while the survivors completed the gens? Ya, if the killer does nothing and is unable to down survivors the gens go quickly, is that news?
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@Lethal_premium said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095737#Comment_4095737
If spawns worked right then I would agree but I have had too many survivors triple in the middle and ruin any three gen, plus even without triple stacking I hopped in custom with friends and we were able to constantly pop gens in thirty solo.
If all of the survivors spawn in the center of the map and hop on a gen together then they will be easy to find and you can interrupt them ALL which is a massive amount of free pressure and time for the killer. Made up scenarios between friends in customs is not relevant to public matches and having a build that can do so leaves you wide open to tunneling, slugging, and worse chases than you otherwise could have, its a trade off you made in your build.
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Chasing the first survivor, even if they're bad, with exhaustion takes thirty seconds enough for the first Gen to pop if all three people work on it.
I read the whole thing but I could have just stopped here. If the survivors triple stack a generator they are playing in a hyper inefficient way (unless that gen is the key piece of a hard three gen). If this happens at the start of the game its going to be a gen in a corner of the map I don't care about and now I don't have to care about any pallets in that area either, they have done me a favor. Killer is doing just fine.
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I can certainly agree that every killer should be closer in strength but I would put that line lower than Jason, maybe around Lich. I think Jason, while not nurse or blight level, is much stronger than people are giving him credit for. What balancing around Lich would mean exactly for survivor perks and gen speeds is a good question but would likely allow you to nerf many of the strongest things available on the survivor side and maybe increase gen times.
Where exactly you draw that line is fundamentally a question about how fast you think a match should be but the faster it is the less beginner friendly the game becomes, forcing max level efficiency from all sides is a big part of why DbD is so frustrating to so many right now. If every killer was Jason level it would need to be even faster than it currently is and would likely mean decreases to gen times and potentially buffs to survivor perks.
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@Lethal_premium said:
Because the wins I get are unrewarding because I win against players that shift W like bots and die in five seconds because they path and loop horribly, and get harassed, egc, and losing feels like I could do nothing better especially on killers like pig. And look at the unrestricted tournament hens I think hosted, didn't most of the high tiers fail to even draw.
I think you may have a fundamental misunderstanding of how matches in this game go. Tiny differences in skill result in massive changes to how a trial plays out. A tiny bit better pathing on the part of the survivor or a tiny bit worse pathing on the part of the killer can be the difference between the survivor making or not making a resource. Every time that happens chase can be extended or ended. This is all before ensuring you get away from a three gen or teammate on hook, which regularly makes taking distance necessary even if it would be a bad idea against the current killer when playing in a vacuum or 1v1. Just playing a tiny bit better is all it takes for one side to start snowballing.
If your first chase finds someone less skilled than you and you down them quickly that can also easily snowball the killer into an unbeatable position even when the other three survivors are better than you, especially if you choose to tunnel out that survivor. Chase is setup such that the killer will eventually down the survivor whether its from losing a 50/50, being outplayed, or blood lust and window blocking, eventually the survivor goes down. Ghoul in particular is good at denying access to resources and with his free hit he has to do half the work other killers have to do, every survivor is basically playing as if they had brought no mither into the trial, you only have to win this once. Tunneling and free hits (whether ghoul power or hook trades or something else) are ways the killer can actively negate survivor skill by making it easier to down them without any real effort.
How about Hens's Best of the Worst showcase where for some reason we restricted killer add-ons in some sets (Trapper with and without strong add-ons is night and day strength levels). The only real restriction on the survivors was no anti-tunnel and all three of the killers did just fine against a coordinated team and even on a map specifically picked to be bad for the killer. The killers didn't win every match but they got plenty of hooks in most matches and a game where the survivors can never win would quickly find itself without players. (I am excluding the Stalkedd ghostface matches, I have never watched him and assume he is a good ghostface but not stalking people when you know you are going into Lery's just seems like intentionally trolling the showcase).
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@Lethal_premium said:
Kill rates don't matter that much to me when survivors DC at my terror radius, and are more causal from my experience.
Any match with a DC (abandon is treated differently) are excluded from these stats, so the real kill rate if you included those matches is even higher. Matchmaking places more casual players against players better than them on both sides. Content creators are just more sympathetic towards casual killers while berating casual survivors, creating a warped sense for how good the average player really is.
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Ghoul has a 65% kill rate in high mmr. Krasue has the highest kill rate in high mmr at 67%. Both of these stats come from after the nerfs. Anyone that was OK with how ridiculous Krasue was at release just doesn't have any idea what they are talking about. Both killers are doing just fine after their necessary nerfs.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/540-stats-first-look-at-stats-in-2026
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094699#Comment_4094699
So do you agree killers should be able to abandon when a survivor hides in ebd gane just to waste the killers time?
I would not personally use it but would be fine if it existed. If this is a 2v1 I patrol gens and someone usually hops on one. I do this in a 2v1 when playing survivor as well, I still try to get gens done and take chase as normal until I die (and then typically get slugged for the 4k because so many people can't stand getting a 3k win instead of a 4k win). If exit gate is open or hatch has been closed then collapse has started and the game will end relatively quickly regardless of the option existing. If the survivors wait in the exit gate once they know everyone is safe I start hoping the killer gets a just leave on them even if they were previously helpful teammates.
Ultimately, I do agree with other posters that say the existence of abandon is a game design problem and my preference would be for a total rework to end game in all scenarios but until that happens abandon is nicer than needlessly prolonging a match.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094696#Comment_4094696
As someone who plays both sides the mode is wildly survivor sided they get way more and way stronger effects. And no the poison isnt the same as instent healing invincibility speed invisable unbreakable pallets. If you think the poison that only gives the killer realistic a hit if they hit a shot or set up a good bottle vs all that you clearly dont play both sides and shouldn't speak in stuff like this
I have played more killer in the event than survivor but since I don't agree with your opinion I clearly don't play any killer, how typical.
Survivors get way more I agree and killers should have gotten more to interact with and the whole cake fiasco is dumb. However, you don't need to hit the survivor with the poison, just throw it at the pallet they are trying to use and they are forced to either run through it or try to make another resource. Even if you want to throw it right at them I have not found it hard to aim or hit with at all (are you on controller?). Its a single hit sure but you start the match with four poison bottles and get more on a timer.
I agree that the insta-heal is incredibly strong but the time setting it up is someone off gens (its certainly worth the short amount of time but it is still time off gens). Unless it gets used at the correct times (again someone off gens) it doesn't even do much. There are multiple killers that straight hard counter it like plague or any insta-down killer (particularly deadly with the poison) and if the survivor gets picked back up by it you can just hit them again, unless you were planning to hard slug them you are probably still nearby.
The speed, invuln, and invis last literal moments and if it lets them reach something you can drop chase and go somewhere else unless whatever they reached still leaves them in a bad position. The survivors will also only have access to a single one of those in any given trial not all three. The invis makes a noise and the survivor still moves grass, I went against this ability as ghostface and the survivors would try and go invis whenever I marked them and guess what I still downed them because I could tell where they were. The unbreakable pallets is silly but only useful on certain pallets and against certain killers.
Altogether, I think that makes the mode mildly survivor sided and you are just refusing to adapt to what the mode is throwing at you. So maybe for you it really is wildly survivor sided, for me it isn't.
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@radiantHero23 said:
I know this sounds crazy to some, but could we get rid of the abandon feature altogether?
All it does is encourage quitter-mentality.
If you don't want to play the game, then please just quit before you hit the ready button.
You've clearly never had the killer bleed out all the survivors just because they can. I would be fine with other abandons being removed but this one was added for a reason.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/469326/the-dbd-community-has-no-concept-of-fun
For some people winning is fun and sorry this even ks so survivor sided killers have to sweat or they just lose because of how broken survivors buffs are in this mode. I play both sides and have regular won games on survivor where the killer didn't even get a hook because I spent all game sneaking around keeping the tables filled and helaing my team which just undid all the killers work. If your on a non meta killer you will suffer sadly because the mode is just that survivor sided. Also tunneling and slugging are the exact same as flash light saving or Gen rushing its just a way to further you game plan if you dont like it bring anti tunnel perks and anti slug perks just like killers bring light born and regression perks.
The mode is mildly survivor sided but that is enough for everyone to throw up their hands and claim its wildly survivor sided, we see the same thing happen with 2v8. The poison is so strong and non-interactive that it easily matches most of what survivors can do. I have yet to lose as killer in the event mode (about 20 matches) playing as Jason, Plague, Unknown, and Ghostface. Have I struggled in some matches, of course, but I still won even against teams with someone doing exactly what you are.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094562#Comment_4094562
There are bad killers yes but killers only have themselves so they cant be carried like survivors not to mention how no killer perk is anywhere near as powerful as meta survivor perks. Also content creators crap on killers all the time calling them bad because they didnt play to the made up rules survivors have like no tunneling which is just getting someone out first or slugging when the kilelr has to because their teammates are around going for the save. Killers get way most toxicity from streamers the survivors do does it never happen to survivors no but killers get toxicity way more sense its a 4v1 game.
Name the content creator of an actual decent size that berates killers for not playing by the survivor rulebook. Practically all of the big content creators are killer mains and the big survivor mains generally put out silly content or play with an entirely upbeat attitude because doing otherwise isn't entertaining on survivor. I can agree with you that there is a lot of toxicity in the game but generally when you get it from a random TTV survivor they have like 5 viewers. Compare that to all the shade I see thrown at survivors from large creators, many of whom are in the creator program, and its not even close. Otz calls survivors pathetic for daring to use unbreakable in a recent video, killer rulebook much lol (they are both ridiculous).
No one is being carried by perks, the most powerful meta survivor perks (outside exhaustion) are used almost strictly to make certain oppressive killer strategies harder to execute. The only reason these perks are considered powerful is because of how incredibly strong the strategies they suppress are. You literally mention them in your post, tunneling and slugging, that isn't being carried by perks unless you also consider tunneling and slugging to be carrying the killer.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094562#Comment_4094562
Honestly, I find it completely out of touch when the folks who play this game for a living ######### on the casual players who hop on to chill out after being mentally drained by a hard day's work at their actual jobs. It's elitist bs, over a video game no less. My hubby has worked at mine sites for many years, it'd be like chucking a bunch of content creators out there into the hot sun and then standing around talking about how bad they are at it. Experience makes all the difference, go figure!
Completely agree, no one should be expecting the average player to play as well as someone literally living off their ability at the game. Its a ridiculous standard that you can't possibly meet with a job and everything else that could be going on in life.
Also the mental image of a bunch of professional gamers mining while a bunch of actual miners berate them is glorious, thank you.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094489#Comment_4094489
that's because most survivors are dog ######### and rely on perks to carry them or other people being good enough to carry the bad survivors while killer has to do everything on there own. as well altruism wins me most games on killer people go in for save before i even leave and then they get mad i kill them.
Most killers are bad too, content creators just give them sympathy for sucking instead of calling them on it and that attitude has permeated the community. Seriously watch almost any of them, if the killer is doing poorly and is unable to catch the survivors they give the killer sympathy but if its a survivor doing bad they get trash talked. Otz has an incredible PR team with how he somehow manages to maintain a "wholesome" reputation with the way he shouts at survivors. I don't blame him for getting frustrated at the game and have done it myself but I don't have a reputation as wholesome.
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@brunohvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093731#Comment_4093731
dude i agree with you in most stuff, the guys that win against me are always either on my level or much better, and they are almost always in SWFs of at least 3, i know cause i talk to them after the game and most of them are streaming survivor streaks live. Thats my problem, its balanced around bullying who is worse than you instead of playing against who is a good match
I don't see a way to make this game not feel like "bullying" the other side when you are winning though. Getting stunned or blocked by pallet after pallet sucks but its one of the only things survivors can do. Same goes for being tunneled against a killer that is better than you, there isn't much the survivor can truly do but I understand it being the obvious path to victory.
Matchmaking has been promised an update but we haven't heard anything for around a year. When MMR first came around it was much stricter but Content Creators complained that it made their queue times long and their average match was sweatier (because they actually got teams that could challenge them on a regular basis instead of stomping players obviously worse than them). It was dramatically loosened to the practically non-existent system we have now.
If matchmaking isn't going to change then the closest I can come up with would be a comeback mechanic so that both sides always feel like they stand a chance even when the game has not been going their way. Many players are against that as they feel it "casualizes" the game. Camp, tunnel, slug can't be left in the game if you plan to give other buffs to killer in an attempt to reduce those playstyles (and many players are against the removal of these strategies). Those strategies would just become abusable alongside the buffs.
I also want to note that I have been accused of being in a swf while solo and with solo teammates (they said so but obviously I can't actually confirm if they were or not). The squads on escape streaks beating you are just more likely to stick in your mind. Also If those teams are truly the only ones challenging you then it would logically follow that whichever killer you are playing is more balanced around facing a swf than solo, otherwise more solo teams should be at least challenging you if not winning against you.
I will once again implore you to play more survivor if you truly don't play the role much (your statement made it sound like you don't play the role at all, if you already are then cool).
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@brunohvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093706#Comment_4093706
exactly, you play both sides, you dont see the main survs, the guys who really know their ######### dude, as i said i kill 70% of my lobbies, the problem is that i eithe destroy them with no resistance or get destroyed with no resistance because there is no balance on high level
If you truly don't play survivor then you should go play some, its one of the best ways to get better at killer (and vice versa) and one of the best ways to get out of the us vs them mindset.
Matchmaking does a poor job for everyone, those teams that "destroyed" you may not actually be that amazing, they might just be better than you specifically (no shade), it is likely many of these teams were not even a swf just solos that were decent at the game or managed to be coordinated.
The game also has a high tendency towards snowball victories, you either destroy or get destroyed (as you noticed) and the hard fought middle ground matches are much rarer. This can make your opponents seem bad even when they are not, its just small differences in skill mattering a lot in this game. A tiny bit better pathing on the survivors part or a tiny bit worse on the killers can easily be the difference between making a pallet or not and then the chase extends or gets ended each time those tiny moments matter.
I feel for the weaker killers but the people playing them are actively choosing to play them while survivors need to be prepared to face a four slowdown nurse or blight. If ghostface was truly viable at the very top level with his current power set then nurse and blight would be free wins. Step one of fixing all this is decreasing the discrepancy between killer power levels not changing survivor.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093457#Comment_4093457
But like, the poison doesn't do anything unless the survivor eats it, and if you're on a SWF it becomes pretty easy to track which food has poison, in which case you just put it on the table or eat it while the killer isn't around, so the slow doesn't matter.
You know you can just throw the poison at survivors right? And it lingers on resources you throw it at.
I'm just finding it boring all around. The survivor powers sound strong on paper but are so short lived as to not truly matter much. The full table setting is strong but is so SWF coded its funny. There is basically no reason to poison anything, just throw it at people and its an auto chase win.
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@crookedAbe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4093425#Comment_4093425
2v8, the most popular and frequent event is objectively survivor sided
2v8 is explicitly made to be a casual chaos mode and is so different from normal dbd you are almost playing a different game. While I agree that it is mildly survivor sided its not nearly as survivor sided as its made out to be and my personal kill rates in 2v8 are still around 60%.
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I think the problem with Jason is that he is simply too easy to be efficient with and is difficult to be efficient against without a full team calling out where they think he is heading in OE.
OE lets him quickly patrol gens, start them regressing if using the badge and even if you are not running that add-on OE comes back so quickly that coming out to kick a key gen isn't a big deal. No need to look hard for survivors, you either get red mist/footprints from them followed by KI or the game stops being progressed towards an escape. You are so fast in OE you can be across the map in an instant so even a loose three gen is fairly easy to control and you can reload instantly along the way. Most strong killers need to get undetectable to sneak up and avoid a pre-run but its just part of Jasons kit.
No individual piece is overpowered but the combination makes the most fundamental aspect of DbD, being time efficient, much simpler than it is for most other killers. His chase power isn't nurse/blight level but it doesn't need to be when he can easily shave off time in the other aspects of the game.
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@Abyast1 said:
I agree, in the sense that its harder for you to escape and killer's should on average have a Much easier time. Its a lot less stressful for soloqueue survivor because your not always IT, and so can spend downtime, whereas killer feels like you have to feel much more constantly on it.
However, the amount of sway (i forgot the technical term) you have over the match is balanced by there being 4 of you against 1.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092256#Comment_4092256
This is why i love playing survivor as you wait, because ill play 1-2 games of survivor, match up for a killer game, play another game of survivor, then play some killer. Stops me tilting from either side too much tbh. One bad survivor/killer game wont automatically make me tilt out of my mind. I can destress in survivor the issues i have in a bad killer game, and if i enjoyed the killer game ill just queue killer again and play a survivor game inbetween. Really helps my mental.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092434#Comment_4092434
What site/app is this, might use it to track my games and get some stats.
Official stats website, all stats from your previous matches will be here after a certain year (can't recall which one). However do note that any abandon on the survivor side treats the match basically the same as you DCing (it completely ignores that the match occurred) and therefore inflates your escape rate. If you abandon on killer it treats the match as if all survivors still alive at the time you abandoned escaped, so even a four slug where you obviously won is treated as the survivors escaping if they abandon and then you abandon from all remaining survivors being bots. Official stats are claimed to not be counted this way but no specificity on exactly how they differ.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
Well sure, generally speaking, solo queue surv is the clearly the hardest role to play in DBD, but "playing soloq survivor is infinitely harder than Killer ever could be"? That's too much hyperbolic generalization.
I mean I've only played surv solo since 2020, but I'm here to tell you that playing a D-tier killer on a bad map against strong survs is worse. It's the most helpless I've felt in DbD, and I've played this game from just about any angle possible.
But that's the thing; playing killer isn't as consistent an experience as playing surv is. How hard it is varies wildly based on the killer you're using and the maps you get. Playing Blight on Fallen Refuge or Nurse on Midwich? Cakewalk, a trained monkey can win.
But try Myers on Badham, Onryo on Mother's Dwelling or Trapper on Eyrie against survs who aren't braindead and you will know pain.Literally everything you mention that makes killer inconsistent makes survivor inconsistent. Nurse on midwich or Trapper on Eyrie effects the survivors too, its just that the trapper on Eyrie will be easy and the nurse on midwich will be impossible.
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@DemonicDemons said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092192#Comment_4092192
Congrats, how many times have you queued with a killer bot? I was running into them frequently before I quit and I assume it's actually bhvr implementing them because they don't seem to get banned, killers have given up playing the roll myself included, how else do you fill the void so queue times aren't 30 minutes? You can only write off player experiences for so long before you have to face the facts.
I have many friends that won't touch survivor outside of 2v8, most of them still play killer. I pretty much only touch survivor nowadays if queue times get particularly long for killer, so I play while you wait. Otherwise its when we get the few friends still willing to play survivor together or when 2v8 comes back around (still play while you wait primarily). There have been numerous signs showing survivors leave the game in higher numbers than killers and are just quieter about it. If someone is winning more than they are losing and still claiming that the other side is OP it is perfectly reasonable to write off their experience, how would you even go about pleasing someone like that?
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@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090840#Comment_4090840
Oh so it's a time thing. I legit thought it's movement, but if i can just crawl around the map i will do that from now on.
Pretty sure ya, you still see your red footprints while crouch walking but they stop appearing after a second or two and its around the same time you become protected. At least that is what seems to be happening for me, could be missing some nuance to it though. Would be a lot better if the power description just fully laid this out.
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@MauriceMaverick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090508#Comment_4090508
Crouching doesnt counter the killer instinct.
@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090764#Comment_4090764
If you dont move it does.
I am fairly certain you can be crouch walking and not be revealed by killer instinct. My source for this is coming out of OE with someone crouch walking directly in front of me without KI on them. It does take a few seconds after crouching for the protection to kick in though. If that isn't what is happening for you then possibly a bug.
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@random1543 said:
I think OE is the worst part of his kit to verse I personally like the spear but regards to OE
Like you said they can slow down the match so much if survivors are doing the counter of crouching I've gotten crows once myself and its like "wut I'm waiting for Jason to come out of OE"I honestly not sure what would be the best change, less info (I've argued for KI removed since PTB) or a longer cooldown / timer on how long he can spend in OE so people who where not spamming it and tryna do more spear play are not punished with less info.
I may be outlier, but I enjoy versing Jason, its just the folks that play him a certain way using OE for info to protect gens and totems (a lot of ruin and thrill) rather then spear chase that make him really boring in them cases sadly. I think toning down the OE part of his kit would make people enjoy versing him more.
edit :wanted to add, i don't know if a bug or not seems inconsistent but sometimes I scream even when I'm crouched because I'm moving, like do really have to crouch their not moving at all.edit :wanted to add, i don't know if a bug or not seems inconsistent but sometimes I scream even when I'm crouched because I'm moving, like do really have to crouch their not moving at all.
It takes a few seconds before being crouched protects you from OE, you can be crouch walking and it should still protect you. It seems to be a second or two after you stop seeing the red footsteps that you actually become protected. If you were already crouching for a while and this happened then I would assume a bug.
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The game always intended for SWF to exist and has always been at least partially balanced around it. Voice chat apps have existed since long before DbD has and their usage will be reflected in the stats matches produce even if not directly.
If you want a real place to start looking you have to look at tunneling, camping, hard slugging, and the strongest killers since those are things that actually occur within game. So long as a Blight or Nurse is capable of tunneling or use these other strategies then the survivor role needs to be balanced in such a way they can possibly win against them, even in solo queue, and gen speeds are part of that balancing. Counterplaying these strategies is simply much easier and more gen efficient within a SWF since you can call out exactly who is doing what.
I also want to ask, if the 40k hour SWF doesn't have comms do you think you would win? Lets say these players just randomly got match-made together and you faced them. I know I wouldn't but also know that there are people that absolutely can win against the 40k hour swf even if they do have comms.
Regardless, I don't expect matchmaking to change (it was promised but we have heard nothing for basically a year) so how about a comeback mechanic alongside some anti-tunnel and anti-slug mechanics. Perhaps something similar to 2v8 but with some changes since it doesn't take total gen progress into account only completed gens. A significant boost to gen speed once a survivor dies as a tunnel deterrent without removing it. The anti-slug mechanic becomes necessary unless you want to take bleed out timers into account for the comeback mechanic. This would harm swf a lot more than solo queue since swf are much more likely to be ahead on gens and harms the stronger killers more than the weaker ones since weaker killers are more likely to be behind on hooks.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090414#Comment_4090414
i would say 40-50% of my kills stem from healing under hook. i really think thats one of biggest ways for survs to get themselves killed.
If im not actively in chase, i will always rotate back to hook because 90% of the time 2 or more survs are hook healing which equals another hook for me in very little time
I am not saying you should always heal under hook, I am simply stating that the advice to never heal under hook is equally bad advice. If you know the killer is busy/across the map it is better to heal under hook. If the killer has shown a habit of returning to hook or you have a way of knowing that they dropped chase to possibly return (like Jason going into OE) then don't unless you know the heal can be completed before they get there. Teammates trying to get away from hook to heal somewhere "safer" has often been what resulted in them going back on hook because we didn't have time to finish a heal before the killer found us and we would have gotten a heal off had we stayed. Its not a simply do or don't, its a nuanced decision to make with solo queue further compounding the nuance since as I mentioned its regularly heal now or accept the possibility of never getting healed. I run bond in basically all my solo queue matches in part to find people to finish heals (and generally keep tabs on my teammates).
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@StabbyMcgee said:
He has the most punishing anti-camp in the entire game built directly into his kit. Be real, you're healing under hook and going all surprised-pikachu-face when the Killer comes around to check.
Go watch competent teams and count how often they heal under hook. Healing under hook is the most time efficient way to heal unless the survivor has a way to heal themselves. If the killer chooses to come back the time taken to move away can easily be the thing that prevents the heal from completing. Run away and scratch marks give you away and even if you walk you will leave a blood trail without gaining any real distance. In solo queue especially its often heal under hook or don't heal at all. Just saying don't heal under hook is the typical no nuance bad advice so many people try to push onto the survivor role.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089638#Comment_4089638
Get some experience and you can normally nail if it is an swf squad or not. Post game chat confirmed it, but frankly, who cares? You're going off topic.
I also went out of my way to not hit the person on the save - and I clearly didn't. Defend an exploiter all you want, but just a heads up - it's a really bad look. Regardless, entirely off topic.
Didn't show the ending screen because no one cares about the ending screen. I'll include if it the post-game chat is worth it, but that's rare. Regardless, you're still going off topic. Im flattered you're so intrigued with my editing cuts. If you're so obsessed with post game screens, a handful of my videos have them. Have fun.
Considering you're grasping for straws if you're only rebuttal is trying to chsnge the subject and go completely off topic, the point still stands - sometimes slugging is mandatory. By him going down at the pallet, picking up wasn't an option. They both decided to go down under the same pallet to try to get me to pick up the power struggle guy by mistake. Youll notice I actively avoided slugging when possible there by immediately picking up the person who just got downed. Unfortunately, the remaining survivor was down long enough to power up his power struggle. At least BHVR gave us a final survivor mori option, so this is less of an issue these days - kudos to BHVR for that.
lol, neat that you didn't show it then, very convincing.
Naw man, you hit the Ada on hook, no exploitation needed, and if it was an exploiter why only do this and not more? You are grasping at straws here, I'm just commenting on exactly what I saw and its clear what happened.
I care about the end game screen when you are claiming the survivors have perks they don't have. I'm not watching more of your poor killer play, I watched the one solely for this conversation and nothing more. Since you brought it up the entirety of the video becomes relevant to your argument and proves it to be a poor one. As you mentioned BHVR even addressed the only possible, since there is no proof anyone has power struggle, problem in this video with the basekit mori. That makes your entire argument irrelevant to the conversation. I never said that slugging isn't necessary at times but hard slugging is almost never necessary which is what the conversation is about.
Trying to tell someone to get some experience to identify swf is just a hilarious statement. People love to claim swf over the tiniest of inconveniences, its just them looking for something to blame a hard match on. I have had four survivors load in separately that played in a more coordinated and team oriented way than a confirmed swf. I have also been accused of being a swf while in solo queue, get some perspective and realize that you are bad at analyzing your own matches and have an outsized opinion of how good you are at the game.
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@Saitofox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090116#Comment_4090116
woops wrong person// edit redo:
I play both sides, i have about 8,200 hours ish. mostly a pig main. but play everyone equally. really i just love pig.
So i dont have any biases other than SwF's is the least fun i ever have ever.Someone doesn't agree with you == rage baiter, lol. They are 100% correct, your average swf is just friends trying to have fun together and the "death squads" are sweating their balls off in every way they can in order to win, of course it should be difficult to win against them. If you struggle against these teams it is a skill issue (no shame by the way we are all as good as we are). Hours don't equal skill even as much as this community loves to equate them. Personally, I am tired of being expected to play as efficiently as people that literally play this game for a living while on comms together, its why solo queue is so difficult. I run into a team I struggle against maybe 1 in every 20 matches (guesstimating), its a non-issue.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090039#Comment_4090039
Itd be funny if the hinder is reduced by vigil. Because that perk has been the bane of the past few bhvr designs with hinder especially.
None of it actually says hindered, I think I just immediately assumed throwing the poison would be like a clown bottle. The dessert section does mention collecting poison so we will have to see how abundant it really is and what exact effect it will have when thrown at someone. Could be nasty, could be nothing.