FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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I actually think Legion is one of the best for using it. Frequently Survivors won't heal vs them so you can get a down a token which is super important. You have built in game delay to give you time to build your stacks. You have built in information to actually find the obsession. Also as a Killer, Legion does need help getting people on the floor and PWYF helps quite a bit.
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I might be the odd one out here... But I mostly just want memento blades to get reworked to revert most of his last changes...
I loved having 70 knives to work with, a laceration that stuck around, the higher max throw rate, and didn't mind 8 blades for a health state.
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Ok... and here's why NOED is a good killer perk and should stay more or less as it is.
It's simple honestly. How do you suppose it feels to be a newbie killer who keeps getting matched against survivors clearly too good for them for multiple matches in a row and not get any kills? It feels terrible. That sort of experience is the sort of thing that will get a player to quit early and never come back.
Enter NOED. It's a common perk, so odds are decent that new killers will get at least tier 1 of it early. It is the best common killer perk in the game and one of only a handful of good ones. AND best of all... it can give a floundering killer a morale boost by helping them out a ton at the end of a rough game to get another hook or two and maybe a kill (or more if the Survivors mess up).
In short... it is acting as a massive bandaid to the terrible experience that being a newbie killer is. It is good how it is and should stay how it is.
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You've picked a rough time to try to pick up Killer. They've changed their match making system, so while it used to do a pretty good job of keeping newbies away from vets for their first dozen or 2 dozen games or so... the new one doesn't really have that sort of protections in place.
I'd recommend a couple things:
First, don't play killer when it is evening for the USA. Don't know why exactly but American players love to group up and play survivor together in the evenings and then there's a massive shortage of killers and the match maker kinda just throws games together willy nilly because people are waiting like 10 minutes. As a newbie, that situation will screw you over more often than not, so just don't.
Second, don't be afraid to read about, watch videos on, and try out as many killers as you can. Playing killer in this game can be frustrating even to a vet with 1.3k hours like me... but if you're on a killer who's power you just find fun it happens a heck of a lot less often.
Third, if I may recommend a killer to try out if you haven't already... try Legion. They have a lot of strengths that mesh really really well with what a new player needs.
Fourth, if you do decide to stick with killer in this game, learn how to mind game and moon walk as soon as possible. It'll be difficult. And frequently you'll mess it up and it'll hurt more than it helps, but once you learn how to do those things chases get a lot easier to manage. Funnily enough Legion might just be the best option.
Edit: Fifth, don't be too proud to run Hex: No One Escapes Death. Survivors hate it, but it is a really fun way to punish them for their hubris. Also it is one of the very few good perks you can get early on as a newbie killer.
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@Prex91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2796938#Comment_2796938
10 seconds is literally nothing. At least one minute, and is not a big deal, cause in one minute you can do totems or chests for items. Ok, gens do Not progress in corrupted area, but survivor can play stealth and really safe and counter it. Corrupt is a perk that already survivor sometimes counter waiting, and then gen rush if not paired with other gen regressions. Also you can brake hex and boom totems in the meanwhile. 2 minutes is good cause you have time to find people, especially the one travelling map going to not corrupted gens or other with aura read perks helping you. Deadlock scema a good alternative to me, cause not map control or early help like corrupt, but preventing more then 2 gens popping togheter.
10 seconds lets your average killer walk 46 meters which will allow them to cross half or more of pretty much any map in the game before Survivors can start doing gens and maybe even get into chase. That's not nothing.
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heh. That screenshot right there is why I don't solo survivor. Welcome back. May your trials not be frustrating... or... well at least may more of your trials be not frustrating than are.
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I'm curious to know how exactly you want Killers to be Overpowered.
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As Legion, I manage to make it work in the following 3 ways:
- Frenzy makes it so I only ever have to win 1 M1 only chase to get a down which is honestly pretty nice.
- Deep Wounding other people usually gives me enough time to get the down. Not always, but frequently.
- I almost always run at least 1 perk that can give me free M1's in the right circumstances. Stuff like Agitation, Coup de Grace, Trail of Torment, Play With Your Food, Endfury... that sort of thing.
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Is it weird that I liked him a lot more before his last set of changes? I don't hate his new version, but I really liked having 70 knives with laceration that stuck around a while and didn't mind needing to land 8 for an injury.
I kinda wish that they'd make memento blades essentially revert him to how he was + old knife pouch.
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@q6iha34x1r69psli7pg said:
MMR does not exist. They tell you that it exists, but it's proven it does not. I lost like 50 matches in a row as wraith (not going to tell how) and am still going against 3/4 dead hards. Tell me why at the supposed bottom of mmr there are so many dead hards?
I mean... Dead Hard is really easy to get access to. David is free so one could use it on their literal first Survivor game. Getting it on others takes a little longer, but still.
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Huh... I was considering trying MMR as a "new" killer since I got the game for free on Epic... haven't done it yet but part of me is very not surprised that this is happening.
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I feel like nobody else watched the same video as I did...
So... I see the killer down you, pick you up, spot a hook a smidge far away and start heading there.
There's a bunch of random machinery in that room so the killer has to do a little S curve.
At 0:45, it's pretty obvious that Boil Over was kicking him to the left pretty hard, he starts trying to correct it the same second that Boil Over switches direction... punting him in between the two sets of machinery. He tries to recover but it is far too late. He realizes it at ~0:50 and drops you when you're at 60% wiggle and he's inadvertently spent the last 5 seconds of his precious 15-16s of carry time going the wrong way because of your perk.
Now... what happens next? You crawl back to where he first tried to pick you up! He'd already tried and failed to hook you from that location... why would he bother picking you up again?
You may not have seen what you did as abusing Boil Over, but I can guarantee that the Blight did.
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My guess would be they're talking about a Killer comboing Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance and new Dead Man's Switch. Not 100% sure though.
Edit: Honestly if you throw in some translation shenanigans, I can see Scourge Hook turning into Hook of Disaster.
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2 things.
First, if you only launch 1 crow the cool down is shorter than the repel action.
Second, Survivors who are repelling can't do anything else but run. That includes generators, healing, vaulting, and throwing pallets. So if you swarm someone, they now have to choose between repelling and whatever they were doing.
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None of the Exhaustion perks should be base kit. They're exhaustion perks because they are all among the most powerful perks in the game. They have a shared cool down that doesn't go down while still in chase because they'd otherwise be ridiculously broken.
And you want to make Lithe base kit? Hard No.
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So... I'm not going to claim that Swamp is a good realm... But at least I can tell where I am, can see where I'm going, and don't have trouble getting there. That's a lot more than I can say about RPD.
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Skilled play or no, MMR is fatally flawed in a different way. let me explain.
As a game designer, it is their job to make the most fun way of playing the game also the most efficient to win.
At this point, anyone reasonably familiar with Dead by Daylight knows 2 things. First, MMR only cares about kills and escapes. Second, the most effective way to get kills is to Camp and Tunnel all game every game. Humans are competitive by nature, so I would guess that the majority of players will care about that MMR number even though they can't see it. So... there's going to be a whole lot of killers that just camp and tunnel every single game.
So... what do those two things taken together lead to? Getting camped and tunneled isn't fun, and honestly doing it isn't all that fun either. But that's the play style that is most highly rewarded by the MMR system... so currently the most fun way of playing the game is NO WHERE NEAR the most efficient way to play. That's a massive design flaw.
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@GeneralV said:
That it really does.
I feel like you and @TheGannMan did this on purpose.
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I feel you on this.
I've played exactly one killer match since the update dropped. Last night, Artist map, 4 flashlights, 4 Dead Hard, several Boil Overs, a Break Out, several We're Gonna Live Forever, and one even had No Mither. 100% they were trying to make it simultaneously impossible for me to pick up and hook them and impossible for me to slug and bleed them out. Now I did end end up winning because of Agitation and I'm quite good at dodging flashlights... but that was my last killer match of the night.
Playing against that garbage is possible but it is stressful as hell.
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How do you avoid a pursuer who is incredibly fast, impossible to detect, and leaves behind a decoy so you don't even know when they've entered that state?
Your only option is guess and pray, which doesn't make for interesting gameplay.
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I mean, you basically already can 4 times a week. If you buy perks from the shrine that you already have you convert 2k Iri Shards to... 100k BP I think. I personally have never done it because shards are much more valuable to me... but... the mechanic does exist.
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Clown did in fact get nerfed and even lost one of the buffs he had on the PTB, so I'll give you that. Don't know what they were thinking there.
However, Pig actually got buffed. Amanda's letter used to reduce your available RBTs by 3, so you'd have 1. Now it reduces it by 2, so you have 2. Decent buff honestly. Last will is a similar story. Last Will made Pig faster while ambushing but at the cost of taking longer to charge ambush. That downside to charge time got cut in half so it is also a buff.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2770209#Comment_2770209
Yay to it coming back.
Here's an animal pic as thanks.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DGDEVE2IU37E/fb-img-1643120573594.jpg
My first reaction... "There's not a dog in that picture."
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It shouldn't have Great Skill check zones.
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@Rizzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2769953#Comment_2769953
So basically, even though it's already been illustrated that there is one map that has an area in which Boil Over flat out makes you unhookable no matter what, and several more where any combination of Breakout, weird hook spawns, petrified oak, sabotage, great wiggle skill checks, and even a single swing's worth of bodyblocking will make you unhookable too.
That's an issue with a map, not with the perk.
I understand that people are afraid the perk will be abused, however if that's the case it's going to be easier to see this kind of results on a bigger scale than the PTB.
Again, I'm not saying you are wrong or that it cannot be an issue whatsoever, I'm just trying to see the thought process behind it.
Here's the thing though... Boil Over is a very problematic perk by design. It's theme is helping you getting yourself off the Killer's shoulder... but either it is too weak to do it consistently and never gets run, or it is strong enough to do it consistently and either Killers have a terrible time or anybody running it will get bled out. None of those options are healthy. This change to Boil Over isn't good because it doesn't fix those problems.
The thing is though there is what I would consider a healthy way for this to work. We already have a perk designed to let a survivor get themselves off a Killer's shoulder. It's called Decisive Strike and is finally in a position where I'd call it healthy. Honestly, a rework to Boil Over so it is an alternative to Decisive Strike like Tenacity is an alternative to Unbreakable would have been fantastic.
Something like this: Boil Over Suggestion — Dead By Daylight
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Yeah... bit disappointed with this. I can't see it becoming meta but the buff has made it highly abusable. They had an option to do a really cool rework and just... didn't.
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You know what? I might try this. Though I'm guessing my stats with certain killers will be terrible.
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@Tekno_Badger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767529#Comment_2767529
You literally didn't even read the post. That's pathetic.
I didn't nerf their 1v4 at all. Everything is buffed considerably actually, even factoring in the debuffs you get after Slashing 4 times, with the exception of a negligible difference in movement speed. But the more you Slash, the longer your Fatigue, which hurts the 1v1 (also buffed, but still just M1), forcing players to choose strategically with each Frenzy. Try reading before you call my rework "fundamentally flawed"
I did read it. Doesn't mean the place you started from isn't fundamentally flawed.
You don't seem to realize why Legion is set up the way they are. Let's think about this for a second. Frenzy doubles the speed difference between them and Survivors, it allows them to vault windows the same as a Survivor medium vault, it allows them to vault pallets, and Legion maintains standard movement controls for the duration. Legion has no lethality because Survivors have no counter to getting injured by Frenzy. They just don't. That's why its non lethal and should remain non lethal.
For that reason, buffing their fatigue to only be 2 seconds or 1.3 seconds with add ons is a TERRIBLE idea. That would make them a lot more lethal overall, and their lack of lethality is the thing that is preventing them from being beyond broken and overpowered.
Does Legion need buffs? Yes absolutely. Should any of their buffs be to their lethality? NO! Never ever.
What they should get is stuff like this:
- No more losing the power bar after a successful M1 and when you pick someone up in Frenzy.
- Total Charge Time buffed from 20s to 10s and Franks Mix Tape nerfed to increase total charge time by 10s.
- If Legion ends Frenzy while not in chase and at least 8m from all Survivors, the Fatigue is only 1s. That would allow Frenzy to be used for mobility.
- Each successful stab in Feral Frenzy increases their speed by... 0.2? 0.3? m/s. This is primarily to make chaining hits with Frenzy a bit more reliable.
- Add on pass. Legion's add ons aren't bad, they're no Pyramid Head add ons. But most of them aren't very interesting or transformative. I'd like to see more interesting and useful add ons and a few less that are just flat number buffs or ones that inflict debilities.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767107#Comment_2767107
I only would want the old system back if and only if they make it where all the killers have different rankings instead of sharing one. My biggest complaint about the emblem system was it treated killers like survivors. All killers don't play the same so they shouldn't be ranked the same since your skill with one killer will be different than another.
Oh thats... yeah I forgot that the Emblem system kinda screwed over certain killers... specifically the Chaser emblem with Plague and most Insta Down killers. Yeah they'd need to edit it to handle the different killers differently. That's a good point and something I forgot about because I don't play those killers.
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So... your starting position is fundamentally flawed.
I personally happen to very much enjoy the fact that Legion has a good 1v4 game but a not great 1v1 game. So... from my point of view, all of the changes you proposed to their base kit are beyond garbage and should never happen. If you want Killers with a good 1v1 and meh 1v4, there's literally plenty to choose from.
The only exceptions are these two changes. Do not reduce Frenzy charges when hitting a survivor with a Basic Attack. Reveal survivors even if they are Oblivious. Those changes are nice. I like those.
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So here's the thing. When people were asking about maybe getting an MMR system... people generally thought they were asking for a system that would in fact look at an individual's actions during the match, and accurately figure out how skilled they were. The Emblem system attempted to do that but graded the outcome in such a way that it was a better indicator of how long someone played as opposed to how good they were.
What they definitely weren't asking for is a system based pretty much only kills/escapes that is ridiculously easy to game and encourages everyone to play in the most boring and unfun way possible.
At this point I legitimately think the best way forward is to reenable the ranking system as the matchmaker, add 10 additional ranks that continue the trend of making it harder and harder to pip as you go up, and make it impossible to double pip in said 10 additional ranks.
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Yep. This is what happens when you simultaneously delete all of a killer's niche and make them clunky to play. I'm actually a bit surprised it didn't drop more.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763861#Comment_2763861
Speak for yourself, lots of killers make use of I'm all ears and distortion can be very frustrating.
I mean... yeah Killers use aura reading, but Killers can't be inflicted with blindness. Survivors don't really use aura reading though. Least not usually.
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To be honest, this nerf is half of what I wanted to happen to CoH. The other change I wanted is a change to the Boon mechanic so that the killer kicking a boon makes replacing the boon impossible for a bit (30-60s).
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Coup de Grace and Play With Your Food on Legion
Nobody expects it and 1 hit is all it takes to go down after a frenzy. People tend to really greed vs m1 killers so that extra lunge or 5% ms often causes that one extra loop to be fatal
How rude. You stole my answer. 😛
Answering the OP's question... Agitation is also fantastic for this. It's a bit more common than some of the other answers but it still fits the bill. Usually killers are vulnerable while carrying... but Agitation flips the script. It is so satisfying to down an over ambitious flashlight user with Agi.
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I'd be on board with this.
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- There are counters to this. The Endurance status effect. As far as I know, there's 4 sources of it. Borrowed Time, Soul Guard, Mettle of Man, and the Stypict Agent med kit add on. They are however very limited on purpose because there are some killers where Exposing and Insta Downing Survivors is their entire power and a perk to counter an entire killer power is a bad idea.
- Bro... if you animation locked yourself in a spot the Killer can hit you... that means you messed up and should take the hit. That said, Dead Hard can bail you out from a bad play like that and Resilience and Spine Chill can make you vault faster which might help.
- So... you want new perks to do a thing but for some reason claim that the perks that DO the thing you're asking for don't count. Why?
- See Above.
- Are... you of the opinion that being near a window or dropped pallet should make you impossible to hit? Is that what you're going for? Yeah... no. This is a terrible idea for a multitude of reasons.
- So... you're both right and wrong at the same time. A perk that buffs camping basement hooks is not a good thing to have in the game. However... Monstrous Shrine is so weak that it is largely a non issue. I do want it to get a rework though.
- I mean... Syringe and Syptic kinda make a medkit into a more powerful but single use item... but items like this would be kinda neat. I'd like it if they made firecrackers available all the time.
- Ok so... Enduring + Spirit Fury does in fact have a counter. A very easy counter in fact. Its called predropping pallets. Be less greedy, throw the pallet earlier, and their perks won't go off. Congrats, you've made half the Killer's perks a non issue via a minor change of play style. Also Smash Hit exists. We don't need anything like this.
- Spine Chill, Resilience, and Desperate Measures all can buff your unhook speed. Equip all of them and you can max things out at... 75% faster unhooking. That's pretty nutty honestly.
- That would literally be pointless. The HUD shows literally everybody in the game including the killer when a Survivor's state changes. That includes going from hooked to injured. Against killers who are paying attention this would be useless because a perk that messes with the Killer's HUD should never exist.
- Firstly... no. Secondly, Fast Track and Stake Out also exist if you really want your gens to be faster.
- Repressed Alliance and Blast Mine can counter Pop. Repressed Alliance, Small Game, Detective's Hunch, Prove Thyself + Situational Awareness/Bond can all counter Ruin. You have options. Actually Prove Thyself + Situational Awareness/Bond can counter Pop too by finishing the gen before the killer can get there to pop it.
- None of those perks are particularly good... minus Thana on Legion/Plague.
- Are... you saying you want old Sabo with 99ing hooks back? Nah. Old Sabo was basically useless in the average game but super oppressive with a Sabo Squad. New Sabo is less oppressive in a SWF built around it but can be useful even if only one person is going for it AKA better in literally every single way.
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@xxshyguyxx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2760479#Comment_2760479
I get a ton of use from it tho. Why does everyone say that? I've landed so many hits from coup.... they never expect it.
I mean... you only get 5 Coup tokens. If your Killer isn't one that can consistently turn every single token into a down like Legion, Plague, Twins, and maybe Ghostface and Myers can... it is actually pretty bad. However, on the Killers that can do that it is quite good. But... people have a bad habit of not looking into how certain perks fit in with certain killer powers and just lump them together in buckets for how they are in general on the average killer.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2760432#Comment_2760432
I enjoy running coup the grace on Legion too. People never expect it.
They really don't. Can't really blame them though... it's a terrible perk on most Killers so almost nobody runs it. It is super satisfying to Coup lunge an injured person right before they get to a jungle gym pallet though.
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Legion is actually a lot better than people give them credit for.
As for what perks I use on them, I usually go with perks that either highlight their strengths or mitigate their weaknesses usually a mix of both. Legion is fantastic for consistently harassing and slowing down Survivors, death by a thousand paper cuts if you will. On the flip side, their weakness is mostly getting that 2nd hit and ending chases.
Good perks for the first category are perks like Oppression, Eruption, Surge, and Thanatophobia. I will say that in my opinion Thana is not an insta equip like it used to be because Circle of Healing exists and injuries don't stick. Ruin would probably also be good here but I personally dislike Hexes.
Good perks for the second category are perks that are capable of giving you easy hits that you otherwise wouldn't get. Stuff like Enduring + Spirit Fury, I'm all Ears, Coup De Grace, and Play With Your Food. I realize that some of these perks are considered generally bad, but on Legion they actually function very well.
There's actually 2 perks that do fit into both categories that I find myself running a lot. Brutal Strength and Agitation. Brutal Strength can sometimes get you hits you wouldn't normally get and will frequently cause Survivors to not have the distance they need to actually loop pallets, meanwhile the faster kicking can also make dry kicking gens much more worthwhile and lower the amount of time you need to spend cleaning up dropped pallets you didn't kick in chase. Agitation obviously makes getting hooks just a bit faster which is nice, but it also allows you to get hits and sometimes downs while carrying other people.
My current main build for Legion is Brutal, Agitation, Eruption, and Coup De Grace. It works out pretty well.
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Because the usage rates for Toy Sword is almost certainly ridiculously high but they didn't take a step back and ask why they were so high.
Let's be honest, Twins without Toy Sword is a lot like prebuff Trapper (when he could only carry 1 trap at a time) without a bag. Sure you can do it... but it is clunky, obnoxious, and just overall going to be a terrible experience for you if you try it. A brown add on is pretty easy to get your hands on and run every single game... so naturally Twins players are going to do that as much as possible because it makes using Victor not absolutely terrible. For some reason, the devs didn't understand why players were doing that. I'm assuming they just saw the raw stats and were like "This add on is over performing. Nerf it." and didn't realize why it was in nearly every Twins game.
Short answer... short sightedness.
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@GoshJosh said:
Why are you hitting an injured survivor in Frenzy anyway? To look for nearby healthy survivors?
Yes. Also inflicting Deep Wound.
To be honest, the most reliable way to keep forcing Frenzy value against decent Survivors after they know you're Legion is to return to hook, Frenzy Stab the person who just got rescued and then chase the Rescuer. Getting your Frenzy hit DH'd in that situation is really annoying.
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2 games as the newly nerfed Deathslinger was enough to make me hang up the cowboy hat until further notice. He's just so bad now. Slow ADS is just clunky and the Terror Radius nerf made a lot of the more fun and interesting loadouts not work anymore. Honestly the man just... doesn't have a niche anymore. I honestly can't think of a reason to play him over the rest of the cast.
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Coup De Grace: Add 2 features.
- Lunges that do not go past the maximum lunge range do not consume a token.
- Gain a token for every 6/5/4 pallets broken.
I also use Agitation quite a bit but I don't think it necessarily needs a buff.
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Artist and get good at long distance crow shots?
Or Blight.
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Alright... so here's why Boons aren't fine.
The base counterplay to them being in the game is basically non existent. Sure you can kick them but you'll usually have to go out of your way to do it and CoH is borderline efficient if you get one heal off the placement. Two heals in the radius 100% is.
What this means is that you have to do 1 of 2 things. First option is to play one of the killers that don't really care about Boons. Killers who are so good in chase that every target being healthy barely matters to them (Nurse, Blight, Spirit)... an Insta Down Killer who can bypass the injured state... or a split pressure Killer who spreads more than just injuries (Plague, Legion, Artist). The second option is to run Thrill of the Hunt and Totem builds and counter them that way.
If you want to do anything else... well... honestly you can't risk it. There's too high a chance that Circle of Healing will be in the game and wreck you.
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So... I'm guessing based off of your profile picture that you primarily play Blight?
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Legion: "Why would you dead hard my frenzy hit?"
I feel that way more than I should. Just... why? I'm guessing they don't know how Frenzy works but still.
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@GreenDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755174#Comment_2755174
Yeah the last part. Idk where I heard it, but I remember that dead hard just shouldn't "eat" your attacks/power. If a survivor is protecting someone and you throw a hatchet and they dead hard, the hatchet should go through the dead hardie and hit the survivor behind them. But no, it just absorbs the hatchet and they both escape.
While the current problem with dead hard validation is annoying, it's still hard to use as a survivor. And even then survivors can use it like once per chase, so keep that in mind. [And you can usually bait it out so... Unless they use it to get to a pallet AND you also get stunned because lag then it's like >>:( ]
Yep exactly. Stuff like that shouldn't happen and Dead Hard should have gotten reverted once it became obvious that it was. The worst offenders are probably Twins and Nemesis. Usually with Twins, Victor flies through the person who used Dead Hard and past the point where the Survivor can kick him... but with validation stopping him, its a free kick. Nemesis... if he tentacles while you're lined up with a pallet either you or the pallet should get hit... but validation results in nothing getting hit.
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@bubbabrotha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755190#Comment_2755190
Maybe it's just the games I used to play, but games and their players were slot more unapologetic. And the game communities were chill. It's just jarring to see people walking on egg shells to not upset the other guy playing.
My guess would be because this game is asymmetric, and it is one of the few games out there that are.
That means that most people realize that if the player base for either side just disappears the game dies. Since we don't have many if any good options to move to if that happens, people have a larger interest in keeping the game afloat by not being jerks to the other side.