FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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@marciamarciamarcia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726976#Comment_2726976
Thanks for recommending Agitation. As much as I love Pain Resonance, I've dealt with some bad RNG on Shelter Woods/MacMillan (Scourge hooks all on the far corners of the map) and The Game (Scourge hooks only on the lower level). So Agitation would definitely help with that.
No problem. Honestly Agitation is highly underrated. The fact that at level 3 it flips the script and makes you faster than Survivors while carrying somebody is *huge*. Even without Pain Resonance or Starstruck, it allows you to do so many things you normally can't.
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Agitation can work wonders vs a Sabo squad. It is beyond terrible for them if Agitation gets you to the hook before the sabo is complete and you end up knocking the sabo user to the ground. Even if you don't get a Sabo Squad, Agitation pairs nicely with Pain Resonance because it makes it more likely you can get to the scourge hooks to activate it.
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@Guest1567432 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726960#Comment_2726960
Re-read the post...edited my comment accordingly. was my bad.
I don't have a quote handy, but I'm pretty sure the Devs did say that Legion and Ghostface were going to get looked at next.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726862#Comment_2726862
Very true. Needs full rework since any buffs would either not change anything or create a return of Old Legion
This is the absolute last thing that should happen.
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Step 1: Revert everything but the additional cool down they added for lowering your gun. The one aspect of Slinger that absolutely did need to go was tapping M2 for free zoning.
Step 2: Nerf his speed while walking backwards and reeling to match how fast he can walk forward while reeling. The main reason quick scoping was a problem was because a Survivor getting reeled with Slinger walking backwards was moving at 6.34 m/s which is too fast to try to do any kind of counter to the reeling.
Step 3: Give him a few small buffs to offset the above nerfs. Maybe make his reloading a touch faster by default.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722560#Comment_2722560
What kind of counterplay do you propose to quick scoping? I'd be interested to learn it, might be useful on FPSes
Bait the Deathslinger into taking a shot where you can keep him from successfully reeling you in. Quick scoping was fine because there was additional counter play in reeling. They just needed to nerf how fast Slinger could walk backwards with a Survivor on the spear.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722760#Comment_2722760
Id love a ranged killer that could ignore obstacles
In some ways we already have them. Pyramid Head and Artist can both hit ranged attacks through stuff.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I feel like after a boon totem has been snuffed there should be a 60 second cooldown on any boons being relit, which refreshes when another boon is snuffed.
And then we continue to nerf Circle of Healing over and over again into obscurity because that perk deserves nothing but the worst.
Honestly if they add that rebless cool down and nerf CoH bonus heal speed to like... 75% or 50% I could see it still being a good and interesting perk without being ridiculous like it is now. They just... very much overshot with the numbers on it, but I don't really have a problem with the concept behind what it does.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722706#Comment_2722706
Someone has already corrected me on that and we've moved on. That's was still too fast imo and he should've been nurse speed with that quickscope and next to no terror radius crap.
Yeah... you're just wrong then.
Nurse has that movespeed she does because her power literally ignores all pallets windows and literally everything except LoS blocking and Dead Hard. It is ridiculous if you can use it well.
The Redeemer wasn't that. Was it good? Yes! Was it above average in power? Absolutely yes, that's what the 4.4 move speed is for. Is it anywhere near Nurse level of raw power? NO! Why? Because yeah you were going to get shot, but like... everything that man did was slow. Literally. Everything. He walked slow, he had to constantly reload, he has to reel, unlike Huntress and Trickster he still has to swing and gets the normal M1 cooldown for that. Seriously... this man was SLOW. When I still played him... honestly he felt like a glacier. He was eventually going to kill everyone and he couldn't really get slowed down, but he was really slow so it became a race of whether the Survivors could out pace him.
Also... you seem to have missed that Deathslinger was a stealth killer? Then again literally everybody missed that.
I get that you hated that his 1v1 was insanely good, but if they were going to butcher his 1v1 like they did, they needed to massively buff the man's 1v4... and they didn't. So now he's garbage.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722475#Comment_2722475
- He has like 70 knives so zigzagging only helps so much.
- Pyramid head's issue wasn't his power. It was the fact that he could use it to zone you and then had NO delay (or a very small one) between dragging his sword on the ground and picking it up and using his m1 so he didn't have to commit to anything
Trickster has 44 knives. Honestly if he still had his old 60, 70 with the brown knife pouch I'd still play him quite a bit.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721311#Comment_2721311
No game has ever been balanced like that because you just have a bunch of op game braking stuff and that just causes a whole ser of problems. It's actually why the meta is like it is now because they haven't touched the meta perks and tried to make perks meta level(original MoM). Your idea its to make the majority of the perks game breaking and if you don't see that as a problem then I'm done with this conversation.
I don't see the current meta on either side particularly game breaking. Well... Except CoH and Dead Hard with validation. So... No I don't want the majority of perks to be game breaking. I do however want every perk in the game to be impactful.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721172#Comment_2721172
Tinkering with new builds would be even better if perks were closer to each other because messing around round with off meta stuff wouldn't be such a down grade to the meta.
This is completely wrong you don't try to trying everything up to meta because you just end up with a bunch of broken stuff that is now impossible to balance you want to bring the meta down making it more reasonable to run weaker stuff.
Nope. Tinkering isn't satisfying if you can't see/feel large differences from the tinkering. You aren't going to get that feeling if everything you are experimenting with is very meh.
Also... In my tinkering, I've honestly not found that large a gap in killer perks until you start really scraping the bottom of the barrel. So like... Unnerving Presence has nothing on Pop... But Pain Resonance, Jolt, and Eruption all have ways in which they *are* better than Pop.
Also... Buffing everything up to the meta *is* better. What would be more exciting... Pop getting cut to 20 or 15% or Unnerving Presence getting buffed to be situationally better than it? Obviously the second. It gives players more options, more choices, and more variety to face off against.
Nerfing the meta continuously causes a far worse problem. It eventually results in a sucky carosel of swinging nerf bats that just results in everything being boring and uninteresting. That right there is a great way to kill a game.
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I still want gates to auto regress at 0.25 c/s but have check points at each light coming on. So at 25% 50% 75%.
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I'm gonna pass on that.
For me personally, a lot of the fun I have is in tinkering with new builds. Make perks worse across the board? Things are just more boring.
Also, generally it is a MUCH better to buff things than nerfing them.
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As Artist and Spirit I was like this map is nice. I like it.
As an M1 killer... This is like Disturbed Ward and Gideon Meat Plant had a kid... And not in a good way.
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Honestly Agitation is a pretty good perk all on its own. But if you want to combo it without going full meme, get Pain Resonance from Artist.
Killer wise, your best counters are probably insta down killers, Blight, Legion, and maybe Plague. Insta down to not give them the chance to get to the safe zone, Blight to 2 tap them before they can retreat, Plague to make recovering with CoH impossible, and Legion can get injuries plus Deep Wound so fast that they can actually win a war of attrition vs CoH.
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I'd rather keep the distance over the invulnerability frames. Simply because we now see what having the IFrames actually working correctly looks like and it sucks. Especially for Twins, Nemesis, Demo, and Pig
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Spirit if you're wanting to play as the new acquisition. Twins for perks. That might seem weird but I honestly like Oppression and Coup De Grace more than Pop and Bamboozle.
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You'll need to save up 9000 Iridescent Shards, but I would recommend starting off as Legion for the following reasons.
- Using their power isn't much different mechanically from any killer's base kit, so they don't have a steep learning curve.
- When used well, their power is going to let you stab people. Every. Time. Killer can be a very frustrating role, so feeling like you've managed to accomplish something in spite of the Matchmaker throwing you against Survivors you can't handle is very useful.
- You can make a pretty serviceable build for them out of their perks + the perks you can get without any further iridescent shards. Discordance + Jolt + Thanatophobia + Brutal Strength. That is... in order... their perk, a free perk, a Nurse perk, and a Trapper perk. For a build with just their perks and free perks, I'd say go for Discordance, Bitter Murmur, Jolt, and NOED.
- Their power gives you something that is very difficult for the average new killer player to get ahold of (though a bit easier now). That is something that slows down the Survivors so your games won't be over before you feel like you've even started. Deep Wound makes the Survivors have to stop working generators and mend themselves for 12 seconds, and those seconds can really add up.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716494#Comment_2716494
Thank you, Slinger is nothing without STBFL even before the nerf that was his best perk. M&A like you said is now necessary cause of the TR nerf but then the other 2 were my choices.
Actually you used to be able to run him without stbfl. If you were going for using one of his other strengths, you could absolutely play without both it and M&A. All of that died with the Terror Radius nerf.
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@ElusivePukka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716191#Comment_2716191
A lot of "low-tier" killers are only low-tier because people don't want to adjust. A lot of those "low-tier" killers do, however, frequently perform better than they might otherwise because the survivors also don't respect them enough.
Yeah... Or just... Don't know how they work.
I've had way too many people drop a pallet in my face while healthy.
I've even had people use their Dead Hard while I'm still in Frenzy.
I've even had someone accuse me of hacking because I found him with Legion's Killer Instinct.
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Legion is a fun and well-designed Killer who's power... while slightly more limited in scope than some, does what it is supposed to do very well. They do not need any kind of massive overhaul. At most they could use some minor buffs and QoL.
Related: Most people sorely underestimate Legion and run bad perk setups for them.
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I am legitimately glad for you that you still like him.
I am still going to ask for most of his nerfs to get reverted and not play him until they do.
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Seems like a reasonable way to make Hexes a little more consistent. Not overly so, but more than current.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715311#Comment_2715311
Legion can counter W meta, but they can't counter the lack of overt lethality and the massive fatigue penalty of their power.
Makes them great at farming BP, but stressful as heck when you really want to secure a win.
I mean... They can. You just have to not play the standard killer meta on them. It's designed to be effective on killers who are lethal but lack info and game delay. That's not Legion.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715230#Comment_2715230
You name 3 killers out of 26 that's pretty close to 90%. That only works if they step into a trap and if they are just running away not looping you have to have traps in odd spots that survivors might not even go to. Legion is super countered by w. As soon as you heat that TR just run and he will never catch you in his power. You can run STBL but I've been getting 4-6 stacks and one gen left lately.
I mentioned the 3 I personally play. Nurse, Billy, Huntress, Trickster, Oni once he gets blood, and Wraith can all counter hold W in the right circumstances.
Stealth killers too via hit and run... Though not so much once CoH happened.
Seriously... Holding W is counter able for a decent chunk of the roster. Not everyone mind you, but enough.
Also Legion can 100% counter hold W.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715067#Comment_2715067
Have you ran into the shift w meta? That's my problem there's no real interaction between killer and survivor the problem is it counters 95% of the roster. Even when I'm playing killers that are loopable it's hold w and then loop and 5 gens are done.
It... Doesn't work vs 95% of the roster? I know because I specifically look for Killers it doesn't work against because I dislike facing that.
That's why I currently main Spirit Legion and a bit of Blight. In a weird sort of way, Trapper counters it too... Can't hold W if your ankle is caught in a bear trap.
I used to also play a lot of hit and run style... But... CoH basically broke that.
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After both their nerfs, Spirit has taken over the position of favorite chase killer from Deathslinger. I'm having a blast with her.
I will say that hearing Survivors run through me is still weird.
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714183#Comment_2714183
I mean, that's how it was pretty much. You were able to flick it up faster than someone could react. Which means they had no input or ability to juke, so it was entirely on the killer to hit the shot.
But that's not fun if only one side has say in how a scenario goes. Look at Spirit before her nerfs; she was terribly unfun because she had pretty much constant control of a situation. Now, she retains a good amount of her power while now giving survivors something to work from.
Its the same thing with Slinger; they needed to get rid of his ability to just quick-shot because it put a survivor in a scenario where they had no say in the matter. And in a game where its supposed to be You Vs Them and not You Vs Bots, that's not fun.
I agree he's been nerfed way too much. His TR nerf made no sense and people who complained really were being overdramatic considering the killer isn't that strong in the first place.
But you're joking if you think a 0.4 second windup actually affects your ability as a Deathslinger besides giving survivors less than half a second to react. Which is the idea.
You're missing something though.
Do you know how many times I have managed to bait an old Deathslinger player into shooting me when I was in a position where he couldn't get the follow up swing?
The answer is multiple times.
They could have added counterplay via the reeling mechanic to Deathslinger without butchering quick scoping aka the fun part of him. What the should have nerfed was how fast he can walk backwards while reeling. That speed plus the pulling results in a survivor moving faster than sprint burst. That's way too fast to have a chance to hook yourself on anything. Deathslingers who knew that were actually uncounterable in the 1v1. Those that didn't? They were hella fun to face.
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Yeah. Deathslinger really has nothing unique going for him anymore. It's really tragic.
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@Ssajbambusa said:
@CowabungaDude @FFirebrandd So survivors having perks to increase the speed of finishing their objective (repairing generators - literally the least fun and interactive activity in game) is fine, but Killer having one perk like this is not?
Is there actual reason for it or just double standards? I'm not attacking, just want to know where you are coming from.
To be honest, most of the perks that make Gens faster kinda suck, and I would be very happy if Prove Thyself, the only one that doesn't got nerfed to 10%.
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Hello, I used to have Legion and Deathslinger as my two co mains. Unfortunately, Deathslinger's nerfs largely left him completely and totally without his own niche where he's the best at what he does. For that reason, I'd recommend finding a different main.
Now, if you want to play Deathslinger anyway... Here's my advice. The one thing that Deathslinger still has going for him is an above average chase. So, you need to build around that.
Perk slot 1: Save the Best for Last. This perk makes Deathslinger scary. All his swings post reel count as a basic attack and can use it incredibly well. In addition, you can break your chain when injuring the Obsession to save 2 stacks.
Perk slot 2: Monitor and Abuse. Let's do some math. Deathslinger runs at 4.4 m/s Survivors run at 4.0 m/s. Difference of 0.4. To make up for Survivors running 8m earlier, it takes you 20 seconds. No other perk will save you that much time per chase so... Use it.
Perk slot 3: Gen Regression. While Deathslinger's chase is strong, it is slow. You're going to need a perk to wreck the progress made by the other survivors while you were chasing somebody else. Ruin and Pop are most common. Jolt and Pain Resonance are good. I personally think Oppression and Eruption are underrated. Though I'm not sure how well they work for Deathslinger.
Perk slot 4: Info perk. Obviously you can't get into chases if you don't know where anyone is. BBQ or Thrilling Tremors are the obvious choices. There are others obviously.
Deathslinger also uses insta down perks quite well.
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The problem with Monstrous Shrine is that it encourages camping. That's why it's effects are so underwhelming. Camping is probably the least interactive way to play killer.
That's why I want Monstrous Shrine to get the following change or something like it.
Your fervent care of the Hooks has aroused The Entity's favor. Whenever a survivor is hooked in the basement, the entity blesses you with inhuman speed and strength.
Gain 20/25/30% increased speed to break actions.
Gain 10/15/20% increased vault speed.
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Allow switching to Charlotte during the 5s cool down on a successful pounce on an injured Survivor.
Allow Victor to be recalled while idle.
Those are the 2 main things.
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Honestly I'd love for Ruin's old skill checks to come back as what Unnerving Presence does instead of the smaller success zones. Let's be honest, that perk needs the help.
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Didn't old Balanced Landing create infinites in some places? I feel like they need to make sure that doesn't happen before undoing that nerf.
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@CowabungaDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706410#Comment_2706410
i use brutal strength+enduring on my legion and it definitely helps with that. however these perks only make it so you can play more aggressively instead of actually giving you an edge
Yeah... from my experience, Enduring isn't actually that good of a perk for Leigon. Really the sort of chase perks you want on Legion are ones that can give you hits in situations where you had no business getting them. Enduring isn't that. In rare cases Brutal can be that, but you need to be good at shepherding your Survivors. The perks you're after are things like Spirit Fury, like Coup, like I'm All Ears, like Agitation, like Trail of Torment, or Play With Your Food.
Edit: either that or you need to go just... all in on Legion's death by 1000 paper cuts strength.
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Honestly I'm about 80% certain the issue is the killer meta.
Think about what Killers and Killer perks are common and meta. For Killers you've got Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Oni, Huntress, Pyramid Head, and maybe a side of Bubba. For perks... you've probably got some mix of BBQ, Corrupt, Ruin, Pop, Undying, maybe Plaything or Starstruck or Infectious. Also maybe a Deadlock here and there.
Do you see a trend there? Chase focused killers with almost only perks that snowball off of downs or hooks. What happens if your first chase ends up not fast for whatever reason? Answer... you've got 3 Survivors who are healthy, not in chase, working on gens, and maybe haven't even seen you yet so your Gens are progressing at a rate of ~3 charges per second while most of your loadout is doing exactly nothing. You only have 400 charges until all the gens are done so you're in a terrible situation.
Honestly, it's no wonder why people sometimes feel Gens go way to fast. People bring an all-out snowball killer setup and then can't get the snowball started, lose terribly, then complain about gen rushing. They brought a high risk, high reward setup then get upset when the risk bites them in the butt.
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No no no no no no no no no no no no no.
Just because you personally dislike current Legion does not mean they should pull a terrible Old Freddy level rework on them. That kind of rework only succeeds in royally pissing off anybody who loved the original version. NO killer should be ever subjected to that kind of rework outside of when they fundamentally break the game in the worst way possible.
Get out of here with that terrible, horrible, suggestion.
Also your alternate suggestion is somehow *even worse*. Fact of the matter is that Legion with a lethal Feral Frenzy in its current state is just going to down you in a set number of seconds and there isn't anything the Survivors can do about it. Old Legion actually did fundamentally break the game in the worst way possible... and you want to bring that back? No.
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It depends on what Killer I'm on.
If I'm Legion... well... I frequently have to track without scratch marks anyway, I don't have any Aura perks on my loadout, and it doesn't touch KI. As Legion I do not care even one bit if Shadowstep is in the game. If I'm on Spirit though? Yeah it causes problems.
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@CowabungaDude said:
Honestly i play legion a lot and hes (i almost want to say good) a decent killer. That 1v4 pressure he can create opens up a big window to get a couple of hooks. the problem is that legion cant take advantage of that very well because of his lack of chase. pig takes the cake for me when it comes to the worst killer
You're not wrong, but one thing I don't get is this.
So like... Nurse and Spirit have absolute garbage in the tracking department. In fact, their powers actively harm attempts to use the games default tracking options. Does anyone say that that makes them bad killers? Obviously not. People just run BBQ, Infectious, and other tracking perks on them to make up for that deficiency and nobody on the forums says boo about those weaknesses.
Why doesn't that happen with Legion? Sure they do have to in fact land the M1 for the down. But there are perks that can absolutely help with that. End Fury, Coup De Grace, Bamboozle, Play with your food, Brutal Strength and numerous others. People could run those. They could put away the BBQ, the Pop, the Ruin Undying, and the Infectous Fright since Legion doesn't need them near as bad as other killers and actually give them the perks they need. Instead... people just complain about that one weakness.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706138#Comment_2706138
Yeah, she is super tall vommy mommy.
Thing is, Legion is just M1 killer against injured survivors, nothing more to it. That is when survivors don't heal, if they heal, then he will just use his power again to gain little bit of time, that's it.
Plague always have a chance for Corrupt Purge and that is just really good. You have decent range, you can down even healthy survivors really fast, you can down multiple of them, just huge snowball potencial.
Also she starts with 1 pool + addons, so she just always have chance to use it, every game.
I mean... yes but also potentially no. Because Legion has a lot of built in slow down and information, you can absolutely afford to bring multiple chase perks as them and they work so much better on them because you'll be using them vs injured Survivors. End Fury, Coup De Grace, Bamboozle, Play With Your Food... most killers are kinda iffy running all of those perks because... sure they can give you a hit, but that's not amazing if you need 2 and the info and regression you can get from the standard killer meta is usually more useful.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706049#Comment_2706049
lol... you really are serious, funny.
So if you don't cleanse, she is m1 killer. Hmm, no stun anywhere, 0 time wasted, iron will doesn't work.
Seems like already better version of Legion. If survivors don't heal he is m1 killer too, but he gets stunned for it and they get speed boost.
Plague is basically better version, if she finds survivor in open = dead, survivors don't get any speed boost, so she is basically exposed killer at that point.
Survivors can't work together on gens, can't unhook if they are healthy and want to stay that way and she starts with 1 fountain + addons, where if she gets bloody puke, it's really good. Also CoH and medkits are useless.
No matter how I look at it, she is just way better Legion.
Btw good luck trying to convince soloQ to not cleanse...
So, one thing I do want to mention...
Overall Plague is stronger than Legion, but Legion's M1 game is actually stronger than Plague's. They're shorter, quieter, inflict deep wound which darkens the Survivor's screens, and don't leave a trail of incense smoke behind them at all times. That makes pulling off M1 mind games as them quite a bit easier than doing similar mind games on Plague.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706047#Comment_2706047
Which of the following sounds better for the Killer?
- Someone spending 28 (12+16) seconds to fully heal before getting on generators.
- Someone spending 40 (8+16+16) seconds to fully heal before getting on generators.
I am not saying CoH is super bad for Legion compare to Hag, or Wraith. But most survivors just can't play whole game injured and have to heal at some point, where it's just better for you if they heal with someone else than self-heal.
Also if you find them healing together, easy chain hits, but that is not going to happen when everyone can self-heal.
and if those survivors split, you are going to waste more than 5 seconds on that. You don't really gain that much time, if you never get chain hits.
Yeah... here's the thing. 80% of the time Survivors just would never heal against Legion before CoH came out. The only time you're going to get that 40 second delay is if you've stacked your perk loadout with obvious perks that heavily punish staying injured. I'm talking something nutty like my old main Legion build with Thanatophobia, Trail of Torment, and Monitor and Abuse. With that build? Yeah I could pretty reliably convince Survivors to heal or punish them if they didn't... so much so that my 4th perk in that loadout was Nurse's Calling and it was 100% worth running that.
How many Legion players are going all in on getting Survivors to heal in spite of it being a terrible idea? I don't know exactly because I don't end up against Legion all that often, but I'm going to go out on a short limb and say very few do that.
To be honest, I would argue that Legion handles CoH better than the majority of killers. The only ones who handle it better are insta down killers who don't let survivors hold W after the first hit or hyper mobility killers who can catch up so fast to someone holding W that it doesn't matter much.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705690#Comment_2705690
It still does hurt him tho. It's still better for him than survivors who just never heal and do gens, but it is way worse than if they would heal normally (no self-healing).
If they use CoH, it's 16 seconds of 1 survivor instead of 2.
Think about it this way.
Which of the following sounds better for the Killer?
- Someone spending 12 seconds to mend then they just hop on gens again while injured.
- Someone spending 28 seconds to fully heal before getting on generators, but you can just injure them again in about 5 seconds flat regardless of where you find them again.
It's #2. #2 is better for the killer. #2 gives the killer more time to put some other survivor in the dirt and on a hook. Sure, a theoretical #3 where someone spends 44 seconds to fully recover is even better but that just didn't happen most of the time. On the other hand, that 16 second heal from CoH looks good enough to do it against Legion even though it isn't. Hell, a lot of people on here have claimed that holding a 3 gen against Survivors armed with CoH is impossible... but the thing is, I've done it as Legion. How? Simply because they actually can injure fast enough to make CoH's ridiculous healing efficiency not matter.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705690#Comment_2705690
That's a fair point, but at the same time, if you're going against survivors that are able to consistently loop M1 killers, Legion will be ran by them for more of the duration the other survivors mend and heal with CoH, and then they can do a gen while you pick up the surv, carry them to a hook, hook them, etc. Due to the inconsistency of their power being incredibly map-reliant and easily countered by splitting up, if you have happened to only injure one survivor, there will be 2 other survivors doing gens, one of them getting chased, and the other mending and healing on a CoH totem. Even if you injure 2 survivors, those two would probably heal each other up with the CoH bonus, and then immediately do a gen while the other guy is doing a gen.
Outside of CoH I do believe Legion is a lot stronger than given credit for, having built-in game slowdown and guaranteed first hits, as well as somewhat of an instadowning ability. However, I believe they would still be bottom 5 even without CoH due to being reliant on balanced maps as well as not having anything to help them down survivors while injured, but CoH really seems to have affected them.
You are correct that not having anything to help get downs is Legion's main weakness... But anyone playing Legion should know that and bring perks to help with that. If you don't... Well... What are you doing?
Also, Frenzy is not what I would call a map dependant power. It is instead dependent on the Survivors positioning. The map can influence that, but I've had Survivors group up against my Legion on Mother's Dwelling. No idea why, but they did.
Also, for me personally, Legion works just as well as before CoH came out. The only difference is that Thana isn't in my builds anymore.
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@glitchboi said:
I would honestly agree if it weren't for Circle of Healing (which shouldn't even be a perk to begin with).
Circle of Healing actually doesn't hurt Legion near as bad as anyone thinks it does.
Think about it. Legion can take Survivors from Healthy to Injured in 5 seconds pretty consistently. They also inflict Deep Wound. So you leave them be after that, they go recover at CoH. Not including travel time, they've still spent 28s recovering from something that took you 5ish seconds. You're still massively coming out ahead there. In fact, CoH can actually help you as Legion because it encourages the Survivors to waste those 16s healing up when you barely care if they do instead of staying injured, slamming gens, and playing super cautiously.
Now if you said Wraith was getting wrecked by Circle of Healing then yes. 100% agree with you.
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Alright, so I'm not gonna sit here and say that playing against squads like that is fun. It isn't. But he made numerous tactical mistakes that screwed him over.
First one is that... the Survivors cannot win the game if they stay at that very strong main building 24/7. They just can't. There's only 1 gen there. So... as Legion what you need to do is Frenzy somebody (injured or not) who's at the main building to spot people who aren't at the main building anymore with KI and go after them. Break chase any time anyone gets back to the main building. If they fully recover, even with CoH it'll cost them 28s. If they don't fully recover, then you can pick them off when they next leave it. Let them have that as their fortress, while you bleed all the safety out of the rest of the map.
Second one is I'm about 80% certain he forgot that Deep Wound can down. A nifty solution that Legion can do with locker saves like that is... Frenzy them and then camp them if they get in a locker. They go down and you get to eat some of their bleed out bar.
Third thing is that he didn't commit to a course of action. He needed to decide if he was going to go for a bleed out win or win by powering through their flashlights. If you go for the first... especially against that team, you don't pick up, you camp out the guy on the floor once you get a down. obviously he didn't do that. If you go for the second, ram your face right into those flashlights every single time you can. Eventually they'll run out of battery and the shenanigans will stop. He obviously didn't do that either because he constantly broke chase with people who hopped in lockers.
Fourth... just overall he did not use his power well. I realize that they stayed injured a ton which lowers Frenzy's value, but even just inflicting Deep Wound buys 12s. Also as mentioned above, FF can both prevent locker shenanigans and let you spot people in worse positions.
Edit: Fifth... That has got to be one of the riskiest builds you could *ever* run as Legion. Here's a tip for anyone wanting to play Legion. One of Legion's biggest weaknesses is getting downs. What you should never ever do is run 3 perks that do nothing without downs and nothing to help you get them. This guy practically only had Deadlock doing anything at all.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2696759#Comment_2696759
Some Demogorgon bias coming in so don't mind it too much:
Current Demogorgon is as strong as prenerf Freddy was. Demogorgon always had the better antiloop of the 2, but now that Freddy got his Teleport nerfed, Demogorgon currently has the better Teleport. Demogorgon also has a very strong Add-on combination that guarantees info and goes pretty well with Ruin: Leprose Lichen and Lifeguard Whistle. Slap a Portal on your Ruin Totem, a few Portals on Gens and you don't need to run info Perks ever again.
I'm not an expert on either Freddy or Demo, but for sure the main thing going for pre nerf Freddy over Demo is the ease of use. I doubt you'll deny that old snares are easier to use than shred and Freddy's teleport was ridiculously simple to use effectively if you've got BBQ cause there's no setup required, unlike Demo's portals.
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Some of it has to do with the fact that its a 2 floor map. If there's a hook directly beneath your feet when you pick up, well, that'll prevent any hooks spawning near you on the 2nd floor where you can actually use them. If that happens too much, you can end up with fairly large areas where the game thinks there's plenty of hooks but there isn't because they're all on the floor above of the floor below where you need them.
This kind of thing can happen RPD and The Game too.