FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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I play them pretty frequently though I've been on a Spirit / Artist kick recently. They're quite fun and one of the few split pressure killers that function in spite of CoH.
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To be honest, I want the Survivors to do that. Sometimes I'll run to a hook that literally just became unoccupied in an attempt to trick the Survivors into taking a hit.
Granted, the main reason I do that is because Agitation is just about a permanent fixture on my build for every killer but still. Assuming you don't actually lose the hook, body blocking can give you tons of pressure.
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See, whether it is a good idea or not largely depends on your skill as Killer.
Are you a veteran killer main with 1k hours, all the perks you could possibly want, and very comfortable with the killer you picked? Then yeah... playing in the evenings (USA time) will work out just fine for you. You'll probably get easier games than at other times, because you are good enough to take down the average survivor with minimal trouble.
Are you not that? A newer killer, a killer main trying to branch out into a new killer, a killer main playing on a recently prestiged killer? If any of that is true then playing at night is much more likely to throw you Survivors who are much better than you on your current loadout. That's not gonna be fun. So... honestly it doesn't surprise me that a lot of Killers avoid playing in the evening.
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@Impose said:
Legion is still worse imo. But yes. Those two are pretty interchangeable at worst killer in the game
Legion is far better than Deathslinger. I'll admit that Legion's power is definitely not the strongest one out there, but it is very good at what it does and it doesn't suck to use.
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Honestly, after the nerfs I'm inclined to agree.
Old Spirit gave Survivors too little info to go on and felt unfair to me, so I didn't want to subject others to facing her.
Now she gives more info to the Survivors, enough to feel fair to me... and her power actually fixes the parts of chases I hate the most but without completely invalidating them.
I hate short loops where you can both see each other perfectly. Those loops are boring. If they're safe enough you just have to hold W and eventually force the pallet down. Previously I'd "fix" this by playing Deathslinger or Trickster and make loops like that death traps but... invalidating loops like that... eh... still doesn't allow for mind games. Spirit seems to actually fix it by taking vision out of the equation entirely so the mind games can occur again.
I also dislike being stuck just holding W after a Survivor running straight ahead. Not fun. Phasing's 176% movespeed does wonders to fix that. Not quite as well as Blight, but honestly Blight is almost at the point where holding W is invalidated. Spirit mitigates it without invalidating it... so it sits better with me.
I don't always play her because I do love my Control based killers like Legion, Artist, and Trapper and Spirit definitely isn't that. But when I'm in the mood for a Killer who specializes at chases... Spirit is my go-to killer now.
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I was more thinking nerf it to 75% speed then nerf boons as a mechanic... make it so if your totem gets kicked, you can't place it again for like... 30 seconds maybe longer if necessary. ATM it barely feels worthwhile to kick boons.
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As Artist or Spirit: I like this map, it looks nice and seems reasonable.
As Freddy or Legion: There's a pallet, there's another pallet, there's another pallet, now you're at a jungle gym... Geez this is feeling like an outdoor version of The Game. Oh and don't bother contensting the middle Gen unless you have range or mobility because the main building has 2 really strong windows and they can take you upstairs which has Midwich syndrome.
I did win that Legion game on the new map... but only because I 3 genned them for an excessive amount of time on the outside half of the map. It gets dead out there once all the pallets are gone but there are so many of them.
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weird moment here... most stealth killers are actually pretty bad. I mean... before Deathslinger's ability to stealth got deleted, he was the best one because he actually has a backup plan for when Stealth doesn't work. That can be the map or very aware Survivors or Spine Chill... but for real, there's a lot of potential counters to stealth play.
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I'd rather they just... y'know... make his power fun to use again instead of taking the lazy, boring, and lame way out that arguably doesn't even fix anything.
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So... On the Killer side... honestly I think your C tier is far too populated and F tier is not populated enough. Like, Furtive Chase, Distressing, Hangman's Trick, Cruel Limits, and Doc's anti item perk could all possibly get thrown in F tier. Meanwhile, Agitiation and Oppression are both decent perks but are far better than some of the other perks you've got sharing their tier.
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@smappdooda said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671990#Comment_2671990
I wish crows forced them to stop repairing gens. I watch people just sit on gens with crows on them all the time which is fine for an injure but I would gladly trade gen slowdown for injures with her.
and...?
At base, undoing an injury eats 32 seconds of Survivor time. 16 with CoH or a medkit. Unless they're stacking healing buffs, an injury is worth more than them clearing the swarm. This is a good thing for you. If they keep repairing or whatever with crows on them, you'll know and can see them and can keep throwing crows. Eventually they'll stop repairing that gen. Or if they don't... the 4th one will just flat out down them. Congrats, you got a nearly free down. Go hook the idiot who gave it to you.
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Ok so... you are kinda correct kinda very not correct.
You are not wrong that other than Decisive Strike, the entire Survivor meta is on free characters. 100% you are correct here.
However, the only meta perk on the Killer side that's from a Licensed character is BBQ... and in all honesty, you don't need BBQ and it is weaker now that Shadowstep exists.
On the other hand, NOED and now Jolt are just flat out free and are quite good. Tinkerer is on a free killer. Ruin, Pop, Undying, Corrupt and Infectious are all on Killers you can get with shards. No Shrine RNG required. The fact that those perks are very spread out does kind of suck but P2P is an overstatement. Some of the free perks Killers can just get need some work and need it badly but... like I said P2P is an overstatement.
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Here's a different take on Artist's power.
Picture this. You find somebody and start chasing them. You take a second to launch 3 crows at 3 far off generators during chase. You manage to land crows on all 3 of the other Survivors. Now they all have to spend 8 seconds clearing the swarm or you can get injuries on them while in chase with somebody else. So... for 8 seconds literally nobody is touching a single generator. If you launch all 3 crows, your CD is 12 seconds. In theory, you can keep everybody off Generators 75% of the time while (probably) still getting distance on, or forcing resource use out of the guy you're chasing. Even if you throw 2 Gen crows and 1 at the chase guy to zone him, you're still forcing a lot of wasted time with your birds.
Obviously, you won't land every crow on every throw at a generator and doing this requires not going tunnel vision mode and pretty good game awareness... but still... Artist has a very real way to severely slow down the game in a way that no other killer can match. Legion comes the closest, but their ability to do that usually stops working once the Survivors realize its Legion and spread out.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670977#Comment_2670977
I agree with all of your setup, to be clear, no arguments there.
That being said, old Deathslinger did warrant changing. It wasn't quite as OP as some make it out to be - you may be in a lose/lose situation in chase, but that didn't exactly help him in the long run, he was still a weak killer - but it was cheap, unfair, and unengaging, it was a badly designed mechanic that needed some changing.
Otherwise... I find it really weird how often people retread why the devs ######### up to me here. I know that? I agree with that? How many times do I have to say that I think they messed up before it becomes the last time I say it lol
I do think his ADS speed needs looking at. He shouldn't be able to spam fire as quickly as he did before, but there's no excuse for how clunky and slow he feels right now. The quickscope itself is a bit less of a problem when it's balanced with no ADS faking and a slight cooldown before you can raise the gun back up again, but he should still have to fully raise his gun, even if we speed up how quickly he can do that.
He should have been changed very carefully in such a way as to not ruin the reason for picking him in the first place. Honestly that goes for literally every single Killer, Perk, and... well... Survivors are skins, but if they weren't it'd go for them too.
This thread and others like it is proof that that did not happen. So... step 1 in fixing it is reverting the changes. Step 2 is figure out a different way to address the problematic aspects without breaking player enjoyment. Honestly, I think the delay on Deathslinger lowering his gun could easily stay/be present in attempt #2.
Now, as for why people keep acting that you don't get that the Developers messed up... you keep saying that the nerf that gave him the 0.4s delay in firing was a good/necessary one. It wasn't. That is THE change largely responsible for Deathslinger not being fun anymore. Full stop. That's the terrible choice people are objecting to. You keep supporting it. So... people are going to keep explaining why that change was the Devs messing up. Because it was.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670625#Comment_2670625
There shouldn't be killers who are unbeatable in the 1v1 because that one survivor deserves a chance to actually play the game and not have all their agency taken away. If the game moved to a more explicitly teamwork-focused state then I could see killers that require two survivors to take their attention, but right now, you shouldn't load into a match and realise that you essentially don't get to do anything if you're the unlucky bastard getting chased.
That's not to say there shouldn't be killers who are strong in the 1v1, but survivors do still need to have some kind of agency in the chase beyond guessing and getting lucky.
Obligatory reminder that I don't think Slinger is in a good spot now and just recognise what his problem areas were.
Ok, so a couple things to set the stage.
Firstly, Killers do in fact need to be unbeatable in the 1v1... eventually. That's why the Entity Blocker and Bloodlust exist; actual infinites have mostly gotten removed from the game; also, Survivors can't rebuild pallets. A perkless Trapper who's not using traps on Fractured Cowshed or Haddonfield still needs to be able to eventually down anyone. Why? Because in a 1v4 game, a member of the 4 should not be able to survive the undivided attention of the 1 without assistance forever. If they can, then that's a massive problem that needs fixed.
Secondly, despite what I just said above, there should not be a killer who is guaranteed to get a down in X seconds and there's nothing a Survivor can do to extend that time. To the best of my knowledge the only time we've had a killer like that, was when Old Legion existed. They got reworked for a reason and mostly can't do that anymore.
Now... with that established... I would argue that nothing in the game falls into either obviously unhealthy extremes anymore. Beyond that, everything is subjective. I'm sure you've seen the threads on here where people are asked about their favorite and least favorite killers to face. There's some names that show up more often than others, but there's a wide spread of answers every time those threads pop up and some of them conflict. It is my opinion then that there's nothing in the game so egregiously "unhealthy" that it needs to be changed ASAP no matter the cost.
Old Deathslinger was not an exception.
Did he maybe need changes? Maybe, maybe not. However, since he isn't in the position of "So bad that it needs to be replaced ASAP", any change made to him needed to be very careful to not remove what people found fun about him. Essentially deleting things people found fun to use for a nebulous and subjective "unfun to play against" literally never goes over well. That will piss players off and they will never forget that that happened. Like that is not an exaggeration even a little bit. I've been part of a community where the Devs messed up in this way and 3-4 years later the community still brought it up. That doesn't mean that the Devs can't make nerfs and changes to killers. Far from it. They just need to understand why players use certain parts of their game and not make changes that break that thing. For Spirit, I'd argue they were perfectly successful. They gave the Survivors more info but didn't break the fun of playing Spirit. For Deathslinger, they were not even remotely close to being successful.
They need to walk back at least the quickscope changes and if necessary, add more counter play to the reeling mechanic or somewhere else.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670587#Comment_2670587
The argument is that the thing you have to predict for those examples is direction, and since they have to be using their power in the direction that they're facing, there are limited options for them to employ, so you can actually reasonably predict it.
Whereas for Slinger, what you had to predict was timing, and there was no cue for that. I will grant you that for below average Deathslingers this doesn't come into play, but even just competent ones would make use of this. Don't assume I have a personal stake in this- I don't play survivor at all and I rarely play Slinger, this isn't a biased personal rant. I've just like, watched people play him, understand the concepts, and have formed a take based on those.
You are right: A Deathslinger is not guaranteed a hit in those scenarios because they might miss, but that's basically it. You can't react to it, you can't predict it, you just have to guess right or get lucky. It wasn't good game design.
I have a question for you. Why should Survivors be able to beat every single Killer the same way? Why shouldn't there be Killers who crush the 1v1 but flounder in the 1v4? Why shouldn't there be Killers who's 1v4 is fantastic, but their 1v1 is lackluster? I would think that having both those extremes and ones in the middle too obviously would make the game a much more fun and varied thing.
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I absolutely love playing as her. The amount of control she can have over the entire match is fantastic.
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I lowkey wish I had Plaything just so I could try pairing the two.
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@Bravescorpio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667922#Comment_2667922
Yeah I mean that's what I was thinking, if she can no longer shut down loops it seems like its a major hit to her power.
The hook thing is fair for sure, I don't think powers should be overly oppressive to people being unhooked, but when it comes to looping, either you can stop or loop or you can't.
I mean, you can't use birds as traps anymore, but you should still be able to lock down loops with them. Picture this... Survivor is at a long wall jungle gym, and has just vaulted out of it through the window with the Artist inside. Artist can chuck down 2 birds, one looking at the window and one looking at one way around that wall and then walk around the other way. The Survivor is still kinda in a no win situation if the Artist times throwing them correctly. She just... has to throw them now.
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I was hoping that if they nerfed her, that that's how they would do it. I'm good with this. Also them buffing her kinda meh perks is pretty great too. I am 100% ready to instantly get her and throw over 1,000,000 BP at her.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667728#Comment_2667728
Seems like a far better fix for Deathslinger is to improve his ADS mechanic, then. Right now his problem isn't that he's too weak, he's in basically the same spot if you play him differently, but rather that he feels far, far too clunky. The rifle takes three years to raise, the turn speed while it's up is super sluggish, he's slow and frustrating...
Make him 115, speed up the ADS raise and turn sensitivity, making a few other tweaks here and there, and he'll feel better to play.
Deathslinger's problem is that there's no one thing he does better than the rest of the cast anymore.
Now... he used to have things he did the best. Deathslinger used to be in an interesting position where he was the _________ killer who didn't put all his eggs in 1 basket. And you could fill that blank in with Ranged, Stealth, or Split Pressure depending on how you built him. If you really didn't want to get wrecked by map RNG while trying to use one of those 3 play styles, Deathslinger was your guy.
He was a Ranged killer without a preshot wind up so indoor maps weren't painful, who also didn't announce his presence to literally everyone always with a lullaby, and could use M1 based perks.
He was a Stealth killer who had range and anti loop, meaning that loading into wide open maps where stealth just doesn't work like Shelter Woods or Rotten Fields isn't a recipe for having an absolute garbage game like it is for Myers or Ghostface.
He was a Split Pressure killer who isn't as hurt by Survivors splitting up and didn't need to rely on basic M1s for downs. In some ways, that made him better at that play style than Legion or Plague. Or at least it was debatable who does it better overall.
His nerfs deleted almost all of that for him. The TR nerf ruined his ability to play Stealth or Split Pressure. The ADS nerf ruined his ability to still use his ranged ability on indoor maps. I've said it once, I'll say it again... at the moment the only reason to pick Deathslinger is either because you really like the Cowboy asthetics he's got going on or you're sick of playing the killer who does his job better and want some variety. That's not a healthy place for any playable character to be.
Revert all the changes other than the gun lowering delay so spamming ADS doesn't work. Nerf how fast he can walk backwards while reeling to match how fast he can walk forward to add some counterplay to the reeling mechanic. There we go. A much more fun to play and fun to play against Deathslinger.
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1. Pause the timer when the Survivor isn't running.
2. Hope activates for 10 seconds after each generator pops and for 80 seconds when the final gen pops.
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@ukenicky said:
Even before his nerfs, I don't see how Deathslinger is even close to the same level as Huntress. Sorry if that sounds harsh I just don't think the two are even comparable if I'm being completely honest.
A good Huntress is just insanely strong, easily top A tier. Deathslinger has always felt like B or lower, I think it's the fact that Huntress can more reliably end chases faster. Sometimes with Slinger it varies but all that being said, now he's REALLY even worse than he's ever been.
Idk I just don't see how he's a projectile killer since his gun doesn't actually injure people it just gives him a means to draw them in and get the first hit whereas with Huntress you straight-up chunk health states with each shot.
Also I think Huntress has better add-ons overall vs Deathslinger. Just adding more wood to the fire
You aren't wrong. Deathslinger has always been overall a worse ranged killer than Huntress. The thing is though that Old Deathslinger wasn't just a ranged killer. In those other categories, he was arguably better than the other killers who were already there.
M&A Slinger was a very good stealth killer... and most of the other stealth killers aren't the greatest. Mostly because if their stealth plays fail, they just have to brute force everything with standard M1 gameplay which usually isn't fast enough. Deathslinger doesn't have that problem, so he was probably the best stealth killer in the game.
Non M&A Slinger could actually be built to abuse his Deep Wounds with Sloppy and 3 mid chase info perks to be a split pressure killer like Plague and Legion. Plague and Legion are also (usually) in the boat of needing to get M1 gameplay down to actually get people on the floor. Because Deathslinger has his Redeemer to get downs as well, he's arguably a better split pressure killer than Legion or pre buff Plague.
Neither of these play styles are possible after his Terror Radius got changed to 32m. Stealth doesn't work because he isn't stealthy anymore. Split pressure gives too much warning that he's trying to switch targets. Now both of these may have also died when CoH came out, but... the Terror Radius nerf basically deleted them.
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No.
He feels super clunky to play now.
I could maybe get used to how clunky his power is to use... But the Terror Radius nerf butchered most of his interesting and fun side play styles. So I have no reason to get used to it.
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Play a killer who is less affected by it.
Blight is so fast that hold W doesn't work. Legion can mitigate hold W with Frenzy and chase perks. Trapper, well hold W doesn't work if they put their foot in a bear trap. Insta down killers with M&A.
There's options. Split pressure Killers used to be a good option, but CoH means that doesn't work unless you are spreading more than just injuries.
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@ColonGlock said:
Run sloppy and nurses with a low terror radius killer and you will be surprised how much you can disrupt healing. It will at least tell you where the boons are up.
Unless they brought Shadow Step to the party too.
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@beatddb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2657858#Comment_2657858
"as soon as eruption blows up with survivors on the gen you can use pop" what? Its funny how you tell people on the thread to do some work and go read the wiki when you havent even read the perk yourself. Eruption blows and makes the gen start regressing, now tell me, how are you going to kick a gen with pop when its regressing?
It starts regressing if there isn't a Survivor on it. Otherwise, it doesn't. Oppression and Jolt actually work the same way too. Because of that, Eruption and Pop actually combo decently well. Down happens, Survivor on Eruption Gen screams. You hook, and walk over and pop the gen. The Survivor who screamed won't be able to finish the Gen before you get there because of the 16s incapacitated. To make it better, if it's been 30s since you triggered Eruption, applying Pop will also reapply Eruption. Seriously that combo is actually pretty great if you have one particular Gen that you don't want the Survivors to finish.
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I would like to point out that Eruption is better than you're giving it credit for.
If the gen explodes with somebody on it, it is arguably better than Pop. 4.8 seconds of Regression + 16 seconds of a useless Survivor is more than 20 seconds of regression. If it don't get a scream, well you know there's nobody there and that info is pretty nice to have. Add on to that that you can potentially inflict that 16s of uselessness on more than one Survivor... yeah it can be really good. I'm not gonna say it is better than Pop because Pop is much more reliable but Eruption is definitely not bad.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2657735#Comment_2657735
Well, out of those three, I do think that Spike is going to see the most value in it. Thrill isn't actually outclassed by anything in what it actually does, so if you want to do an anti-totem build, Thrill is going to be an integral part of that. As to who else is going to use it, I see two groups:
Number one is people who really hate boons. Slap Thrill and Undying together, and you've got a pretty effective way of guarding the dulls while giving a decent second chance at protecting the two hexes, I genuinely think this build is going to be very useful unless boons somehow get nerfed into the ground sometime soon.
Number two is people who like variety. Sure, there are stronger builds out there, but this is strong enough to do adequately and provides a little variety- this is the group of people for whom I'm most gunning to get the perk buffed for, because as I said earlier, I do think Thrill should be given some extra secondary effect to make up for removing the noise notification.
I like that idea, by the way, kudos to the MTG devs, smart way of thinking about players.
I don't think you're right. Yes, Thrill is the best at what it does, but Spike wants "The Best", full stop. New Thrill isn't that. Why would Spike pick Thrill over Corrupt, Pop, Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer, BBQ, or Infectious and maybe even Deadlock? Bit of a trick question there because he won't. Johnny is the one who builds around perks that are best at what they do... but like I said, most of the interesting combos you can make with Thrill disappeared with the Noise Notification.
Edit: Also now I kind of want to try new Retribution + Undying on someone. 20s of aura reading and being able to see and sneak up on people on Dulls sounds pretty neat.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2657702#Comment_2657702
If you want an anti-boon build, or a full hex build, Thrill is an extremely solid option. Its slowdown got buffed and it doesn't lose tokens when a totem is blessed, meaning that survivors have to go deal with it if they don't want to be wasting a long time blessing each totem.
The perk has a firm niche, it's not dead. It's just less able to do funny gimmick builds now, which is a shame and I'm not necessarily defending that change.
Alright you responded before I edited, so let me expand on what I edited in.
Are you familiar with Timmy, Johnny, and Spike? If you are, you can skip the rest of this. It's a system the Devs of Magic the Gathering came up with to classify their different players. Timmy wants things to be BIG. Big effects, big numbers whatever, it just has to be big and obvious. Johnny wants to come up with and pull off a weird, interesting, probably convoluted plan. He cares more about that plan going off than winning. Spike just wants to win. He wants the most powerful and efficient things in the game and doesn't care about the rest of it. Sure, this is for MTG but honestly it can easily be applied to DBD as well.
Timmy isn't going to care about new Thrill because it isn't big or exciting.
Spike isn't going to care about new Thrill because there are far more powerful and efficient perks in the game.
Johnny might care about it if they can come up with something interesting with it... but speaking as somebody who is 100% a Johnny, I see nothing. The noise notification was the fun, interesting thing about the perk that you could potentially build around and it got deleted.
If you can explain what sort of player might actually care about the new version of the perk... well I'm all ears. But I really don't see it. I fully expect new Thrill to be almost never used.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2657670#Comment_2657670
If your point is that the perk is more boring to use now, then that's one that I'd agree with. The only thing I'm contesting is that they nerfed it into the ground, or that the perk is dead/useless now.
I mean... it basically is dead.
If you want strong perks regardless of how fun they are, you have better options. You won't run Thrill.
If you want perks with interesting effects, well... it doesn't really have anything interesting going on. You won't run Thrill either.
If you want perks with big, fun, and obvious effects... well it's all passive slowdown. You won't run Thrill either.
That's Timmy, Johnny, and Spike all not caring at all. Where does that leave it? Nowhere. That's why it is a dead perk. Even if it isn't technically useless... nobody will equip it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2657609#Comment_2657609
I mean, sure, if you're gonna move from talking in general to talking about your personal tastes I obviously don't have much to say there. If you don't wanna run Thrill, that's totally fine, that wasn't my goal here!
I brought that up to illustrate a point.
I would suspect that there were far more killer players like me who ran Thrill for the Loud Noise as opposed to the passive slowdown. They deleted the thing that made some people run it and for what? More passive, invisible slowdown.
Regardless of whether or not new Thrill is stronger or not, its design is way worse. Passive, invisible slowdown is boring. That's all Thrill does now. Passive, invisible slowdown that you don't even know how much it is helping because it is beyond easy to avoid it completely. How is this a fun perk? Why would anybody run it? Honestly, I don't think anybody is running it because of those things.
To make it worse, they butchered the fun part of Thrill of the Hunt the patch where Retribution got a buff that would have made those two perks combo together in a very fun way. Loud noise notification telling me where there's an oblivious Survivor? Sign me up! But no... Thrill is dead.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2657566#Comment_2657566
Thrill still has a place in an all Hex build, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It slows down cleansing too, so it's actually slightly better in that gimmick build than it was before.
Losing the noise notification is a shame, and I do think that it could use a different secondary effect to balance it out - though what that'd be I have no idea - but that hardly means it's been binned. It's much stronger than Lightborn because survivors are bringing hex totems in almost every game, and even if they don't, it's now an actual utility perk for hexes instead of being bargain-bin Undying for protecting them. Frankly, the all-Hex build is where this perk now shines and actually has a use instead of swapping it out for a second actual-effect Hex.
Thrill has not been nerfed into the ground, it hasn't been essentially deleted, and it isn't worthless. It's been repurposed to more of a passive role, which is a shame because the noise notification did open up some fun opportunities- not because it's a lesser perk now.
No it doesn't. New Thrill doesn't enable you to defend your other 3 perks in that gimmick build, so you're better off with more punishment or mitigation for them breaking your Totems. At this point you are way better off running Undying, Haunted, Retribution, and Ruin/Devour. Old Thrill was arguably better than Retribution in that build if you were on a fast Killer.
Here's the thing, the noise notification was 100% of the reason I personally ran Thrill. That being gone means that it is a dead perk to me. I see absolutely zero reason to slot the new version into my build ever. If I'm having trouble with Boons, I'll just run a Killer who does not care at all if they're in play (which I am already doing btw). Alternatively, I can run Exposed perks and not care about Boons that way but still get value if they happen to not be in play. Seriously... there are far far far better ways to counter Boons than New Thrill because those other ways don't fall on their face if boons aren't in play.
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If Zarina got removed... I'd probably swap to either Felix or Steve. I've been considering swapping to Steve anyway.
If Legion got removed then Dead By Daylight would make a very abrupt exit from my PC's hard disk and never return.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2656758#Comment_2656758
While I empathise with the overall point, Thrill wasn't actually any good at that job while it still had it. I honestly think it's slightly stronger now than it was before.
It was good enough to see a bit of use. Especially if you were on a high mobility Killer like Blight or running an all Hex build. TBH, it was hilarious to run TotH as your only Hex on Blight and defend the Totem. Could old Thrill have used a buff? Sure but they should have... y'know... buffed it instead of basically deleting it.
Now though? Yeah it might be "stronger" than it was and messing with Boon totems is nice... but you might not be against boon totems and you have no way of knowing ahead of time. It's been put in the bin next to Lightborn. Are they both good against the Survivor stuff they're meant to counter? Sure. Will you ever swap it in to try to counter that stuff? Probably not. At least old Thrill had a place in an All Hex build or the aforementioned solo Hex on a fast killer. Both of those are gimmicky but you as Killer can actively set up that gimmick and make it work. You can't force new Thrill like that because its a counter perk.
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@RainehDaze said:
Either that or BHVR will need to buff the hatch or nerf camping.
Buffing the hatch again would also make playing killer suck, because it's a return to "survivors don't even need to finish their objective to get out".
There would be many ways to buff the Hatch without returning it to exactly how it worked. Also even if they did fully revert the hatch, if they properly nerfed keys like they should have... it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
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Last point: I understood you just fine. I don't think you understood me. I am aware that DBD is very snowbally so it will attempt to be balanced so that there's even odds of the snowball going either direction. The problem is that what happens when the Survivor snowballs and what happens when the Killer snowballs is NOT even. Not even close.
Lets say the match snowballs in the Survivors' favor. All gens are done, all 4 Survivors are alive. What happens? Well, if the Killer either has or gets a hook before doors are open, he's probably going to face camp the survivor he caught. Why? Well... what else is he going to do? Odds are that face camp will be successful and that person dies... or maybe the Survivors make a trade and the trade dies. Unless the Survivors seriously out skill or out perk the Killer, he's keeping someone.
Lets say the match snowballs in the Killer's favor. 3+ gens left, 2 Survivors left, one down, one injured. What happens? Well, if the Killer wants, he can leave the downed Survivor on the floor and find and down the injured one and confirm his 4k without the Hatch ever entering the equation.
Those two things are wildly different. We aren't alternating between a 0k and a 4k, we're alternating between a 1k and a 4k. THAT is why all Killers except Nurse have a +50% kill rate and the average kill rate is ~56% over the entire playerbase the last time we got stats. It isn't because killers are stronger... they just get less screwed when they get screwed.
Because killers can almost always secure at least 1k, but survivors can't really secure at least a 1e... To get things "balanced" to 50% kill rate, the snowball will have to go to the Survivors more often... which will make playing Killer suck.
Either that or BHVR will need to buff the hatch or nerf camping.
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On MMR, honestly I don't think it is a well designed system. Just on a core functional level. Basing all of matchmaking on whether you die or escape leads to some... probably unwanted results.
In theory, the Survivor who can get the highest MMR is one who never gets found, leaves gens early, plays super safe at every window/pallet and does gens as often as possible. Definitely never go for any end game risky saves, nope, open that door and yeet yourself out the Trial.
In theory, the Killer who can get the highest MMR is the one who tunnels, camps, and slugs as much as possible and does anything and everything possible to confirm those kills. Possibly with a Mori to bypass DS on death hook Survivors.
Neither of those play styles are the most fun ones either side can engage in. If MMR was visible, there is a very good chance that it would literally ruin the game. With it invisible, it still hurts it, but people can't see their invisible number going up and down so they don't fall into that particular psychological trap.
Also, there's a distinct issue with trying to balance for the 2k. That being... it is really easy for any Killer to confirm a 1k. All gens are done? Down and hook somebody and camp as hard as you possibly can. The only way the Survivors are getting that particular person out is with very good teamwork and probably a few second chance perks. If its Bubba... don't even bother. On the flip side, how easy is it for Survivors to confirm a 1e? Near impossible. The killer can always slug for the 4k, hatch has been nerfed and hatch counts as a tie anyway. To make matters even worse, Bubba exists and a Bubba with NOED who's willing to camp it out basically gets a 2k every game. If the Devs do ever manage to make it so all Killers have a 50% kill rate the above facts will mean that playing killer will royally suck unless they somehow make camping not possible which... I don't think they can.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2656441#Comment_2656441
It lost its prior effect, and gained a new one. Slowdown was buffed, because that's what the perk is now- it's not a hex defence perk, it's a boon slowdown perk, that's what it's for now.
If they wanted a Boon Slowdown perk, they should have added one. Not basically deleted the only actual Totem Defense perk killers had.
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Did you miss that Boon: Unbreakable is coming with the new PTB?
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I don't think Token when you hook someone would be a good option. It does need more tokens, but I don't think that's it. Legion and Plague would be able to use Coup on every single down outside the first since they can injure with their power and down with Coup,
They could go the Spirit Fury route. Gens still give a token for completion, but every 3-4 pallets you break also gives one.
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Tactics killers are my jam.
Legion and Trapper are great. I'm really hoping that Artist doesn't get butchered before she goes live. The ability to pressure Survivors on gens from cross map mid chase is fantastic and I really hope she doesn't lose that.
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He's dead to me.
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Dance With Me with Quick and Quiet. When it works, it is fantastic. The killer is left searching the loop and surroundings for you when you left 10 seconds ago.
Red Herring is also really fun when it works. Having the killer searching for a phantom survivor is actually very very strong. However it really only starts to shine when 1-2 Survivors are dead and everyone is playing more slowly and scared... And the Killer has to rely on smaller pieces of information to find the remaining Survivors who are being stealthy.
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My current main build is quite offensive... but... it is a Legion build. They can get away with a lot less info and slowdown because Frenzy gives tons of both. Current build is Agitation, Coup De Grace, Brutal Strength, and Eruption.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2645042#Comment_2645042
You have a way better chance to survive being slugged than hooked, if teammates play it right. Plus we have Unbreakable and a new perk on the way…
I mean if they manage to set things up so badly that Killers can neither hook nor slug, I can't imagine anybody would be willing to play Killer anymore... with the possible exception of Pyramid Head because cages exist.
That's a whole other huge problem.
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Alright... Here's the problem with literally every buff idea in this thread.
Killers don't have to hook you to kill you.
Now I fully admit that Boil Over is a bad perk. However if it ever became a good perk, Killers would just stop hooking people using it. The game tells them it is in play after all. Welcome to Bleedoutville population Boil Over users. I don't think anyone wants that.
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Yes I'm quite excited for it. Especially since Agitation is kind of my pet perk. Scourge hooks and Agi just work really nice together.
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@katoptris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2643776#Comment_2643776
If you seen gameplay she can shut down that loop by placing one bird from one side and wait for the survivor to be aligned then hit them with it.
I've played as her. Pulling that off is not as easy as you think and it can be baited. Also, unless you actually get the hit at close range and not through anything, all you'll do is swarm them. Sure you can probably shotgun them with crows after that for the injure / down, but that requires you to hit them with crows twice. Pyramid Head does antiloop better than she does.
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I gotta hop on the Nurse band wagon here. You can't loop a good Nurse. You just can't. Also how is Artist winning out of the others? She isn't even released yet.