FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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Honestly, Trapper. Hearing SNAP! "AAAAAHHHH!" is so very satisfying.
On the flip side, Legion is by far the most confusing. It is super rare, but when somebody goes down to Legion's Deep Wound I'm always like... "Wait what? How? Why?"
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It depends.
If the loop is short and safe, it can go die in a fire.
Looking at you Gideon Meat Plant. Nearly all of the loops on the top floor of that map are both long enough that the Survivor can position themselves in a spot to be 100% safe without me committing to a direction to loop and are short enough or have enough holes that they can see me the entire chase so they can see which way I'm committing to looping. Add both together, there's zero mindgame potential to get a faster hit. I have to either abandon the chase or hold W in a circle until the Survivor throws the pallet and then I break it and they easily run to the next pallet and then we do it all over again and again and again and again and again... can you tell I don't like The Game's rework? The basement is better because there are walls for mind games but it still isn't great.
No joke, upstairs of the Game and other loops/maps like them is why I started maining old Trickster. Those loops are garbage vs him. They're garbage vs current Trickster too... but I'll be honest, I hate only having 44 knives. Hardcore miss Old Trickster who could easily be packing 70 of them.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2641372#Comment_2641372
PTS and Spinechill scare me more than exhaustion perks in a lot of games.
There's nothing quite like a group of seemingly invisible survivors that pop 5 gens in less than 4 minutes through Ruin.
Honestly, kinda same. Anti camp, anti tunnel, and anti slug perks don't do anything if the killer doesn't do those things. Exhaustion Perks can be rough but most Survivors don't use them well. PT though can make the game go a lot faster than it should. It's honestly my second least favorite Survivor perk to go against.
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@ManOMaker said:
When I first started playing DBD I thought Prove Thyself would be the most used perk in the game because it just makes the objectives go faster. Considering I only knew of like 7 perks in the game total at the time you could see why I thought that.
To be fair, Prove Thyself is like... a barely not meta perk. It's very good... just anti tunnel, anti slug, and anti camp perks are a bit better.
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Honestly I thought Off the Record was going to... maybe not be meta but see more use. It's like the stealth version of Decisive Strike. That should be good right? Yeah... miscalled that one.
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My guess would be that you're in a lower MMR bracket and you are getting primarily either newbie killers or Survivor Mains doing challenges who only own the free ones. Huntress is definitely best of the bunch as far as free killers go so... you're seeing a ton of her.
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I think I understand the confusion. Most games call persistent AoE effects auras which is what Boon Totems are. However for whatever reason Dead by Daylight doesn't call those auras. In this game, auras are the colored outlines of generators, survivors, the killer, hooks, or whatever that you can see through walls. There aren't any Boon totems that show you auras of anything so Open Handed doesn't effect them.
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2nd best killer in the game who's both fun and not stupidly difficult like the 1st best killer... why are you surprised by lots of Blights?
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I have 2 suggestions.
- Legion. Pop Frenzy, stab the body blocker, they lose collision, you barely lose distance on the rescuer because Frenzy has like... 80% less cool down than a normal stab and now you can see the rescuer with Killer Instinct.
- Just tunnel them. If I'm not on Legion I figure, "Oh you must really want my attention. Very well, you now have it." Don't stab them right away... wait 12 seconds and down them again. If they do have DS... just force your way through it. They wanted your undivided attention, they're going to get it.
Edit: The guy above me has mentioned that Bubba can also just muscle his way through BT blocking. That's very much an option. Trickster can do that too if you like him. Trickster also has the fun extra of being able to get laceration up to 1 knife away from injuring while BT is ticking down.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2633177#Comment_2633177
Getting used to Jolt is going to take me a long time.
Yeah kinda same though I've not been here for 3 years. I'm getting used to Jolt the fastest because Killer main and it is by far the most useful of Demo's 3 perks but like the rest of them? Nope. No idea what any of Steve's perks got renamed to. They're still Second Wind, Camaraderie, and Babysitter in my head.
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Yes. Nurse's power is just the teleporting. The hits she lands are considered normal M1 attacks, so they work with Sloppy, Jolt, and Exposed. Same with Spirit, Wraith, and Deathslinger.
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See, this is why I'm glad I accidentally started maining Legion when I started playing Killer.
Legion can use Frenzy and inflict Deep Wound to counter BT, DS, and UB because you can leave them in a third alternate state and have like... the equivalent of 16 stacks of STBFL on a successful Frenzy stab so body blocking with BT doesn't slow me down. Now boons have come and like... sure CoH makes healing vs Legion less of a waste of time but it still is a waste and you do still have to mend (though Thana has permanently left my build). Shadow Step doesn't block Killer Instinct and I can't see scratches anyway while in my power. Boon: Unbreakable is countered the same way and for the same reason as normal Unbreakable... I didn't slug you I just left you with Deep Wound.
Don't get me wrong, Legion has other weaknesses, but I can bring fun and interesting perks to mitigate them. I don't know of any perk or perk loadout that counters DS, BT, UB, CoH, and SS the way Frenzy can.
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That weird moment when someone asks for a buff to one of the strongest Survivor perks in the game.
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Survivors leave both sets of scratch marks. Both the default and Predator marks so scratches splashing up onto walls and trees for better long range visibility can still happen but you also have the tight, easier to track marks from Predator.
If that's still not enough... then one/some of the following further buffs can also be applied.
- Increase Scratch Mark duration by 1/2/3 seconds. This additional time cannot be blocked by perks like Dance With Me, Poised, and Lucky Break.
- Scratch mark blocking perks still block the default scratches but not Predator's special ones (or vice versa).
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I can't think of a single thing Deathslinger does the best.
Range? Huntress does it better.
Hits at loops? Pyramid Head does it better.
Fast downs? Chain Saw bros do it better.
Abuse Exposed and other M1 perks? Nurse and Spirit do it better.
Deep Wound? Legion does it better.
Stealth? Bahahahaha, he can't do that anymore.
Outside of lore and aesthetics, I legitimately see no reason to play as him ever. Somebody does everything he does better... and he's not the best generalist. That title probably goes to Demo right now.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2632504#Comment_2632504
Undying still shows you the aura of people near totems though, so while you don’t get a sound notification you can clearly see them if you’re paying attention.
That doesn't really work for 3 reasons.
- Its easy to miss an aura if you're actively chasing someone else or otherwise busy.
- Aura reading is only for Dulls so Undying can't defend itself.
- If you do run other Hexes as well, Undying is guaranteed to be the first perk you lose every time.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2632465#Comment_2632465
It would be worse in most cases as a non-hex
Thrill and one hex together
With thrill as a hex it'a 50% chance it takes 28 seconds if they cleanse ruin first and leave thrill be or 50% chance it takes 42 seconds to get rid of ruin if thrill was first
As a non hex it's always the worst case scenario of 28 seconds
Thrill with 2 other hex perks
As a hex if thrill is cleansed first it takes 56 seconds
If thrill is cleansed second it takes 28+23.33+14= 65.33 seconds
If thrill is cleansed last and ignored it's 28+23.33=51.33 seconds
With thrill as a non hex it's 51.33 seconds all the time so again worst case scenario
With 3 other hexes
Thrill first: 28+ 3×14= 70 seconds
Thrill second: 28+23.33 + 2×14= 79.33 seconds total
Thrill third: 28+23.33+20+14= 85.33
Thrill last and ignored: 28+23.33+20= 71.33
Thrill ass non hex: 71.33. 1.33 seconds from the worst result
Your suggested buff is a nerf
You know for a community that keeps bashing the devs for not knowing their game. They are pretty clueless as well
I see that and raise you this. Non hex Thrill with Plaything and Pentimento
Current Thrill if it goes first, it buys you 28 seconds in this situation. The Survivors cleanse one extra thing and that thing takes twice as long.
Now imagine you get all 4 Playthings, they get cleansed then you relight them with Pentimento and then they cleanse all of those and the whole time Non Hex Thrill of the Hunt is making those cleanses longer. So... we're looking at two rounds of Thrill's maximum slowdown. Without interrupting a single cleanse and assuming all cleanses are sequential, all 8 cleanses they kind of have to do will take the Survivors an additional 68.78 seconds because of non Hex Thrill's presence.
In that situation, non Hex Thrill is significantly better and it is ridiculously easy to set up this situation. Or at least will be if you have Plaything.
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@IamFran said:
Considering how bad is the perk now it shouldn't stay as a Hex and becoming a normal perk, the good thing of the perk was the sound notificacion. Also, I don't know why they nerfed that perk, it wasn't an overused meta perk at all.
Ruin, Old Thrill, Haunted, Undying.
Even before Boons came out, the above loadout wasn't half bad. It wasn't meta but you could get some good mileage out of the build. It also would have been super effective against Boon totems. Before we found out that Thrill of the Hunt was getting butchered, I was 100% planning on running the above build when Boons came out. With that build, you as the Killer are already occupying all 5 totems on the map when you load in. The Survivors attempting to claim a spot for themselves will take 34s and notify you, so you have all the time in the world to show up and stop them. The odds of them successfully getting up a Boon against this build is vanishingly small and even if they did, you'd know exactly where it was.
BHVR couldn't have Killers purposely making the new shiny Boons impossible to use so they butchered Thrill of the Hunt ahead of time. Now that it doesn't notify you, that all out Hex Defense loadout does not function because the lynch pin of the plan (the notification) no longer exists.
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Thrill of the Hunt is not being slept on.
Which is more, 28 seconds or 40 seconds?
Let me explain. Cleansing a Hex with full strength Thrill on it now takes 28 seconds. Cleansing a Hex with old full strength Thrill on it took 20 seconds, but you're Blight or Sniper Doc or some other Killer who is good at defending totems and you interrupt the cleanse twice when its halfway done before they finally break it because the perk told you that it was getting cleansed.
If you intend to actually defend your totems and keep them up, old Thrill is 1000% better because of the noise notification. Full stop. If you want to make your totems last longer, Undying is better. If you want to make Survivors waste time with totems, Plaything is better. New Thrill's only purpose is to make using Boons not as efficient but no Killer is going to run a whole perk just to make using Boons slower for some of the match. Even though odds are we will face boons, it's still not a great bet because if you happen to get a lobby where they don't boon or only boon late... Thrill probably did very little if not nothing and you just can't afford to have a dead perk on as Killer.
At this point, Thrill is basically a dead perk. Sure it would be good if you could consistently interrupt Survivors doing totems... but... YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY ARE DOING THEM. For sure you don't have time to patrol your totems.
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Rework Memento Blades.
Blood-rusted knives, worn from overuse.
Employed during Ji-Woon's early murders, they hold a place of importance in his heart.
- Grants 100 % Bonus Bloodpoints for Showstopper Score Events.
- Considerably increases each Survivor's Laceration Meter capacity. (+2 charges)
- Increases Blade Carrying capacity by 26.
- Considerably increases Laceration Meter Decay delay. (+10 Seconds)
- Considerably increases the throw rate after throwing 8 knives. (1.25 to 1.333)
I may or may not really like how old Trickster worked (with the main event changes because that needed help). I'd like to be able to play him again.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629565#Comment_2629565
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629571#Comment_2629571
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629576#Comment_2629576
I wouldn't hold your breath.
There is no way a killer as fun and powerful as her will go live as is. Not after how dirty they've done...well, every new killer that isn't Blight. Well, Nemesis too when his zombies decide to work properly.
Eh, the most obvious way to nerf her to be less oppressive is to make her Dire Crows not function like Freddy Snares, so she can only mark/injure with her power if the flocks of birds are in flight. If they do go with that nerf... I'm perfectly OK with that and it won't dampen my enthusiasm at all.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629565#Comment_2629565
Aye I love to see more people are going to main the Artist <3
Yep! I'm super excited about her. Shooting crows everywhere is so fun. Also I need a new ranged killer main after what happened to Deathslinger.
One thing I don't really get is people on here saying she's not going to have a 1v4 game... like... you realize the crows have infinite range and Survivors on gens are stationary targets that you can basically see... right? Spending 1 crow per volley to harass gens is 100% something a good Artist player will be able to do.
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Here's mine.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2627715#Comment_2627715
That's debatable. I dont think they're better than Pig because Pig doesnt need survivors to be knitted to one space to be effecticient, Legion does. Pig can get a kill just by placing a trap on their head so this requires no effort. Yeah its RNG based but it still ensures the survivor is off the gen. After survivors Mend they're right back on a gen. I think you need specific builds to do well with Legion but they are still rather weak but nonetheless they can win which is why there are no killers lower than Ctier.
Honestly with Circle of Healing being in nearly every match, Legion is already debatably better than every stealth killer except Tombstone Piece Myers. A lot of Stealth Killer's pressure comes from the fact that they can ambush Survivors and get free hits, so they can't really stay injured. Well CoH makes staying healthy ridiculously simple. Legion doesn't have that issue because... oh they healed? Doesn't matter cause I can scrape that health state off them again in 5s or less.
Beyond that, Pig in particular has the following issues...
- Stealth Killer with a power that announces its her. Hello Saw boxes. Survivors see those and then they know they need to be watching for a Pig creeping up on them. Good luck getting any stealth hits with the Survivors on high alert for those shenanigans.
- Slowdown that requires a down without a good chase power. Hats are pretty great but they don't come online until you actually manage to down someone. If they manage to catch you out because the Saw Boxes tipped them off and don't run you in a way that you can use Ambush mid chase... you aren't getting any value out of RBT until you get 2 hits as a powerless 1m killer. Good luck with that. Obviously you can bypass that with an Iri addon but if a Killer only becomes decent with an Iri, that's a problem.
- RBT Slowdown is both limited and RNG. You can actually theoretically get a hat off faster than you can mend. A box search is the same as a mend but searching a box has skillchecks and if you hit greats, its faster. If you get your hat off in 1 search... well... there goes 25% of your slowdown and you got less out of it than 1 single Frenzy stab that's unlimited. When that happens... bet you wish you were Legion instead.
- RBT kills are beyond rare unless you either bring add ons for them or force one by messing with the dude with an active Trap.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2627685#Comment_2627685
You can like them but it doesnt change the fact that they are not that good
I didn't say they were S tier or anything. However I would be very willing to argue that they're better than all 3 of the other killers you have in C+ tier and maybe better or at least similar to the ones you've got in B tier.
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Legion is better than you're giving them credit for. Especially in the new boon meta we're in now.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2624051#Comment_2624051
Nor do i blame anyone who gave up their michaels and ghostyboys. I'm turning more and more into plague main even though its breaking my heart i cannot deal with the boons with pig nor ghosty. Legion is still fine but he/she struggles too.
I have to admit, I have been very tempted to get Plague after boons got released despite me strongly disliking her. I will say though I have been still making Legion work. I'm not running Thana anymore for obvious reasons, but I'm having a good amount of success with them.
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@Hannacia said:
I think the boons and the dead hard....fix.... have a lot to do why many killers have stopped, but like some have already said its also which time you play. Killer queus at daytime are horrible though ive noticed they have gotten shorter and evenings they are fast.
I've noticed more that i rarely see some killers (legion, ghostface, pig, michael) you know the your typical m1 killers and i see more speedy and ranged killers or bubbas :D Its really boring but i get it..they are too slow to patrol huge maps and kill people..well maybe legion can patrol but legion is still not as good as lets say plague right now.
I usually play ghostyboy too but ive given up since he's too slow and im having real issues giving any map pressure anymore.
Well yeah. A lot of the pressure stealth killers can get comes from the fact that Survivors don't want to stay injured against them since they could be about to step around that corner 5 ft away and and if the Survivor is injured... that's basically a free down.
With CoH in play, healing up is pretty trivial. Makes any hit and run, split pressure, or ambush strats not really work. Plague and Legion can still work in spite of CoH because they spread other status effects along with their injuries... but nobody else with that play style does if somebody's got CoH. The people who did play those killers probably aren't willing to risk it. I tried Vanity Mirror Myers exactly once after it became a decent thing... got somebody with CoH and Shadow Step and was like well that sucks... not gonna do that again.
That's why most people are playing chase focused killers who either focus on speed or insta downs. CoH doesn't hurt those killers near as much.
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The way I see it is if my first 2 hooks happen around the same time as the first 2 gens popping, the Survivors and I are about even.
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What I really don't get is why they decided to heavily nerf most of the reasons to play him.
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It depends.
Some killers and killer play styles do not care at all about CoH and Shadow Step. Other killers and killer play styles completely die if those perks are present.
Really, it isn't a question of strong or balanced, it's a question of if we're OK with making it impossible for Killers to be able to get pressure with injuries.
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Anybody else find Tier 2 to be a lot more useful? Sure Tier 3 is nice but unlocking the ability to chew through pallets in record time is way more powerful.
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Alright, so lets Law of Unintended Consequences this.
How can Killers counter this? I personally can see 3 options.
1) Forever Legion. You know the one. Mending Add ons, Thana, Dying Light, Pop, and Eruption/Jolt/Corrupt/whatever. Can't tunnel, camp, or slug to get pressure? Fine, I'll bring a build to make the game so dang slow that it doesn't matter. I'll also be on Legion who is like... the one killer who can actively avoid a Survivor trying to abuse BT, DS, and UB because they have a 3rd option in the form of leaving them in Deep Wound with Frenzy. I'm sure Survivors will have a blast with that.
2) Your base kit changes have heavily disincentivized Killers from actually hooking people. You've given them 3 forms of defense that are activated by hooking someone. You've given them 1 for anti slug and its single use. If I'm a killer and I see that and want to win... you know what its time for? Knockout bleed out build. Sure they'll get up once... but only once. I'm sure that'll be super fun for Survivors.
3) The last build/setup I can see surviving this ridiculous buff to Survivors is Insidious 16m away camping Bubba/Trickster to avoid Kindred. Both of them can do damage fast enough to potentially down the rescuer and the rescuee through BT. So... they plough their way through both, pick up the rescuee to get their DS out of the way then hook the rescuer. Rinse Repeat. Again... sounds like a blast to play against.
Why do I think that something like this would happen and that toxicity would skyrocket? Two reasons.
First, everyone already knows that even with all those perks in play tunneling, camping, and slugging are the most powerful ways to play. Chase -> Down -> Hook -> Repeat is slow as all hell to win the game. I'm pretty sure that a lot of Killers treat things like I do. I start out playing Chase -> Down -> Hook -> Repeat because it is nicer and more fun, but once it becomes painfully obvious that the Survivors in my game are too efficient for that to work against, well, then we bust out the tunneling, camping, etc if we need to so we don't get completely demolished. That game plan will cease to have its fall back plan if these changes happen so I imagine a lot less people will employ it as their first plan.
Second, most of the anti tunneling and camping stuff is not actually powerful enough to stop it completely. If somebody really wants you out of the game, they'll get you out of the game. Even if they have to bulldoze through BT, DS, and DH if a Killer really wants to tunnel unless you're a lot better than them they will get you out of the game. However, what those perks do do is make having tunneling and camping as a backup plan completely non viable. Using DS at 4 gens is actually bad because then the killer will probably be like "Alright I've already eaten the punishment for tunneling. Might as well claim the reward for doing it too." and you're gonna die. Using DS at EGC is a free out for everyone still in the trial unless the Killer has 2 slugs at the time. To avoid the frustration of getting punished for making desperate plays, they'll just start out with the "desperate" plays that they'll know will be punished but they'll have enough time to reap the massive benefits for playing that way.
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
Maybe some way to give zombies a little direction? (some sort of homing beacon?)
Fun Fact, they react to loud noise notifications. So perks that cause those + the detection range add ons gets your zombies into useful positions much more often.
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I mean... Deathslinger is pretty dead. I don't know why anyone would play him anymore.
The main reasons to play him were 4 fold.
- M1 perks. All his hits are counted as M1's.
- Stealth. Low TR, no lullaby, and slowly ramping up chase music all means he was the game's only ranged stealth killer.
- Better handling of indoor, cramped maps than Huntress or Trickster.
- Deep wounds.
2 and 3 are kinda gone now. 1 is done better than Nurse at this point. 4 is done better by Legion.
So... yeah I just don't see any reason to play as him anymore.
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I just want Memento Blades to basically be old Trickster with old Knife Pouch. I liked that version of him more.
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I either play SWF or Killer. Never ever solo survivor. That sounds like a miserable time to be honest.
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Not gonna lie, I was worried that the Dead Hard hit validation was going to force Killers into the weapon wipe animation. At least it doesn't do that? But I gotta agree that it looks and sounds super dumb.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592394#Comment_2592394
Because the quickscope was the thing that needed changing; as I've said before, the fact that he feels clunky is the core problem here, not the fact that the quickscope was removed.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592418#Comment_2592418
Swinging and missing against healthy survivors injures them but does not inflict Deep Wound, I looked it up specifically just to make sure.
Anyway: Nerfing his ADS like this wasn't the right call, I agree- they should've made it so your gun raises faster but you still can't shoot until it's fully up, since that was the core problem. Maybe the chain needs looking at too, but the core issue is that you could not feasibly dodge the Deathslinger before if he quickscoped you, and even if he just ADS faked he could immediately swing out of cancelling it and that also put you in a lose/lose scenario. Both of those things needed fixing, and both of those things were addressed- the sole problem with that suite of changes is that it also now feels way too slow and clunky to raise your gun all the way.
Side note: There was never any reason to run Deathslinger over Huntress over personal preference, the same way there's no reason to run Huntress over Nurse, or Ghost Face over Nemesis. They don't play similarly beyond the fact that they're both technically ranged- and even then Slinger is significantly less ranged than Huntress. What is it about Huntress that draws people to make weird comparisons? They do it with Trickster too, it's bizarre.
Lastly: Yeah... I kinda agree with the dev's explanation regarding his terror radius, but I really think that they should've given him a lullaby radius instead, or maybe a midpoint terror radius so it's larger but not normal size...? I dunno, the TR increase really seems like it might be hurting him unduly, I'd support that being changed.
I... really don't think that it does injure if you miss your swing, but tbh this was just me being pedantic so I'd be ok with dropping this.
Why are you or anybody else expecting to be able to reliably dodge a gun? I don't get that. He did probably need a bit more counter play, but that's why I think they should have left Quick Scoping alone and messed with the chain. So yeah you're going to get shot but the chase with DS becomes all about jockeying for position around terrain where the Survivors are trying to be in spots where they can't get reeled and Slinger is trying to get them into a position where he can reel them. I do agree that the ADS fake was dumb and making him unable to swing for a bit after lowering the gun was a good call. Fully on board with that nerf.
Response to side note: There was in fact reasons to run old Deathslinger over Huntress. Deathslinger can use Stealth, can use M1 based perks, and can handle maps like Hawkins and RPD significantly better than Huntress can. Is Huntress overall stronger than old Slinger? Yeah probably. Is Slinger stronger than her on her bad maps? Honestly, I would guess the answer is yes. Also... remember how I said he could do Stealth? Old Slinger was arguably more powerful than all the other Stealth Killers in the game. He was definitely better at it than Myers or Pig and probably Ghost Face too. The only one who was close was buffed Wraith but even then, it was debatable.
Response to Lastly: Honestly their rationale for that sounds like they don't realize he was a ranged stealth killer. Surprising and getting free hits is what Stealth killers do. Deathslinger is 100% one of them. If you don't like how M&A makes Slinger's Terror Radius smaller than his range... maybe change that so it is +/-25% of the Killer's Terror Radius. Then it's still 8m for 32m killers, 6m for 24m killers, and 4m for T2 Myers.
Edit: Actually that sounds like a perfect fix for M&A Slinger. Change M&A and then if necessary, nerf Deathslinger's max range to 16m. Heck even leaving M&A alone and making his max range 15m would probably be preferable to what they did do.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592320#Comment_2592320
...Yes it does? Hitting a healthy survivor injures them, that's damage on hit.
Regardless: While obviously survivors shouldn't be gifted protection when they're out of position or playing poorly, they should always have the ability to avoid the killer's power, and the fact of the matter is that you do not have an ability to avoid the killer's power when it's a quickscope that comes out faster than you can react to. All you can do is hope the Slinger misses.
That part of the change was obviously fine. The problem now is that he feels way too clunky to play, which imo would be fixed with a simple buff to the ADS speed. Raise the gun faster, but still can't shoot until it's up, and he'll be in an ideal spot. (Save for the TR increase, which I'm still on the fence about.)
It does not. It inflicts Injury and Deep Wound on the chain breaking. If Deathslinger shoots, M1's and the M1 doesn't connect, they remain healthy. Now idk why a Deathslinger would ever swing and miss vs a healthy Survivor and not just break the chain, but technically getting speared does zero damage.
Also, the solution to Deathslinger's uncounterable shots wasn't ever to nerf his ADS. That's just going to cause annoyance, frustration, and people dropping him because playing as him became a chore and not fun. It was to nerf the fact that if Deathslinger walks backwards with you while you're speared... you're moving at 6.12 m/s. To put that into context, outside of stacking an exhaustion perk and the on getting injured speed boost... that is the fastest a Survivor can move. Even if you do plan ahead and try and get shot next to a bit of level geometry, the odds of you getting behind it when you only have a 3.0 m/s movement speed to work with and are flying towards Deathslinger faster than you can sprint burst are vanishingly low. Fix those odds to "fix" Deathslinger. And, you've fixed it in such a way that's still interactive for both parties.
Also, the TR increase is actually worse than the ADS nerf. Deathslinger's primary upside to the numerous delays baked into his power was his fast downs. He can't get fast downs anymore because Survivors with even half a brain can start running earlier and Deathslinger has to hold W after them for +10 seconds per chase. It's bad. Also it guts one of the primary reasons to run him over Huntress. Huntress can do a great many things... but stealth is not one of them. Deathslinger is capable of stealth and could partially do it even without investing perks and add ons. Now he practically has to run M&A.
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To all of those saying the OP is complaining about the one of the weaker killers in the game...
Yeah, they are but Legion got stealth buffed in the last patch and Stab Wounds Study got buffed from taking away 3 seconds to 5 seconds.
This made Frank's Mix Tape + Stab Wounds Study much more viable than it was so people are trying it out. The gameplay those two addons together create is the exact reason that Old Legion got reworked in the first place. There actually isn't anything you can do about a Killer who's 1.2 m/s faster than you, and can vault windows and pallets just as fast as you. The only thing you can hope for is them messing up and feeding you a pallet stun.
Also if they nerf Legion in general and don't just renerf the addon to deal with this, I will be annoyed.
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Part of me wants Legion to get one. Part of me also realizes that will be a small nerf to them because they're somewhat dependent on getting a good first Frenzy and a unique TR would give them away before their first hit.
Edit: Scratch that... the example TR Music in the above post is fantastic. I wouldn't even care if they were a smidge weaker in a hard to notice way if they got something that good.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2590686#Comment_2590686
But the whole point of the quickscope is that you can't realistically dodge it except for hoping that the Slinger misses. You can dodge when he actually aims, but if he quickscopes you don't have enough time to react. That's the entire reason he was changed to begin with, combined with the fake-into-hit problem.
Slinger's problem right now is that he feels clunky, and I'd suggest just making him raise his gun a touch faster so it doesn't feel as clunky without being as fast as the quickscope was before.
Half the point of Deathslinger is that you basically couldn't loop him. Survivors could outpace him in several different ways and beat him that way, but not loop him. To be honest he used to feel like a glacier. Slow as hell but he will run you over if given the chance. That was the power fantasy that he fulfilled. That and him being the only Ranged Stealth killer. Now? Now he feels like a tortoise. Still slow but not nearly as dangerous.
Why is it a bad thing that we had 1 Killer that standard boring looping doesn't wreck (who isn't Nurse)?
I honestly see no reason to play as him ever again. Legion with Trail of Torment and Coup stacks fulfills both being stealthy and being difficult to loop better than the current version of Deathslinger.
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Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So many people try to give Legion a crazy rework with more rewards for chaining hits or leaning more on their lore but they don't actually need that. They are a very fun Killer who just needs some minor uptime buffs. This is almost exactly my wishlist for Legion changes. The main one you've added is them going through breakable walls like the Koolaid Man while Frenzying and honestly I love that.
Using Frenzy through a wall on The Game to scare a Survivor on a nearby Gen would be so fun.
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To be honest, I think I could eventually get used to the ADS nerf. It feels kinda garbage to play, but with practice I think I could play around it.
What is way worse for me is the Terror Radius nerf. As a no mobility, ranged but hard capped, 4.4 Killer, the biggest most consistent counter to Deathslinger was Survivors who were outside your range and knew where you were. They made it infinitely easier for Survivors to be that counter. It takes so long to get caught up to Survivors. Prior to the nerf you didn't have to do it all that often because there was only 6m difference between your TR and Range and Deathslinger's TR starting quiet means you'll probably be able to walk with them in your TR for at least a second before they realize. You also could run M&A to make his TR smaller than his range so their first warning might be them getting shot.
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I think it easily could be. Any approach or strategy that relies on injuries sticking around or being difficult to fix is hard countered to an extreme degree by Circle of Healing. Granted, those sorts of game plans aren't super common, but they'll probably be deader than dead once CoH comes back. The way I see it, the people who did used to favor those strategies now have 3 options.
- Switch back to the main Killer Meta of uncounterable chases powered by BBQ and Pop.
- Switch to Legion/Plague who will still be able to kind of make it work by spreading Deep Wound/Broken as well.
Any sort of Hit and Run stealth killer just won't work if CoH is present and... if the Killer is trying to run that and gets a CoH user... their only real recourse is to start tunneling.
Course I'm also very conflicted by the fact that CoH is exactly the sort of Perk I'd love to run when I'm on the Survivor side.
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I mean... prior to her nerf I wasn't willing to play Spirit. Now that she feels more fair, I'm willing to play her and omg... there might be a new Spirit main in the game. So for me personally it's feeling better.
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I'll freely admit that Legion's power doesn't make a ton of sense with their lore... but can we not essentially delete current Legion from the game like they did with Old Freddy? Please? I know there's quite a few people who quite like them as they are and I'd really rather not lose my current main.
They do need some buffs but NOT a complete rework. I wouldn't even say they need a partial rework. Their power does what it is designed to do beautifully, they just need a few small buffs here and there to iron out times where they can't use it effectively.
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@DoomedMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2577344#Comment_2577344
It's the same sh*t for every non-mobility killer, even 115%. 0.6m/s is also super slow to catch up with a W-gamer.
Huntress has the same problem than him, but the lullaby is even bigger than his TR, and she has to wait the full charge to hit a fast hatchet. But in proper hands she's strong, now it is the same for the DeathSlinger.
I see you have a certain amount of comments/posts here so you're certainly not a beginner but sometimes we forget the basics : come from somewhere the survivor won't be able to flee you in a way you can't cut his trajectory. With 110% you have to outposition sooner more than the other killers the survivors.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2577904#Comment_2577904
The quick scope thing was why he was so unfair and so unfun to play against. There is no practice in earth that makes you realistically able to react to a 0.3s move.
Plus the fact that as a survivor you had to move in a stupid trajectory so you hope to avoid a sudden quick scope, but by doing so, the DeathSlinger outposition quickly and for free, just because he CAN quick scope.
Quick scoping doesn't require to aim well. That's my opinion. It's just the easy way to have shots.
Now he's hard, but fair. People who actually know how to outposition, how to move, and how to aim will perform with him.
Saying he's garbage because you don't use him well is the same as saying Nurse is trash because you have to put 15 hours in her to more or less master her. People have to play him in another way than before.
It is the same ######### for every non mobility Killer, but it just got significantly worse for Deathslinger, when it actually used to be not terrible for him. Also while I do agree that catching up at 0.6 m/s is still bad, 0.4 m/s is 50% worse. Seriously that extra 8m would take 13.33 seconds as a 115% killer, it takes 20 seconds as a 110% one. That's why this nerf is so bad for Deathslinger specifically. His main saving grace was the ability to stealth close enough or almost close enough to take his shot. Now he can't do that without perks.
Huntress actually doesn't have the same problem as him. Her hatchets do not have a hard capped max range. Sure landing them from outside her lullaby is very difficult and probably impossible on indoor maps, but she can do it. Meaning Huntress has a skill based way to mitigate her low speed and huge "Terror Radius". Deathslinger doesn't. He still has his 110% move speed, he still has his hard capped range, he still has his reeling minigame that eats time, and he still has to reload a lot. But he's lost the 2 things he had to make up for those weaknesses.
I'm aware that 110% killers have to outposition better. Hell I used to main 8 knife to injure Trickster. Even after his lullaby got "fixed" that version of Trickster had better options for dealing with Shift + M1 than Current Deathslinger does.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2583582#Comment_2583582
Not many good Plagues out there.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2582613#Comment_2582613
I would argue neither strat works against a high level Plague (all 10 of them, I know).
If nobody cleanses and the Plague brought two apple add-ons, your team is royally screwed. A top tier Plague is going to have everyone sick at 5 gens and broken at 4. That's a long way to go with one health state against a good killer.
Mass-cleansing isn't a thing if the Plague has any game sense. She can just pick up two or three fountains at a time and overwrite her power. A really experienced Plague will quickly identify what the team is doing and suddenly you're giving her free pools. I've burned quite a few teams who tried it.
a high level Plague is even more of a unicorn than a high level Nurse. :-P. That might change after these buffs though. We'll see.