FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700691#Comment_2700691
I don't agree that the time to walk to a gen on Pop is meaningful compared to the regression you get on the other perks.
Also, what you are describing with Oppression is a waste of a use and a waste of time IMO.
Then you're wrong. Unless you're on a mobility killer, if you spot somebody 50m away on a gen with BBQ, it legitimately takes 10 seconds to get over there and kick it. If you've already spent 10s finding your first chase, 20s getting the injure, 20s to get the down, jk he's running Dead Hard which adds another 10s, then 10s to transport the survivor to a hook, 10s to hike to that Survivor 50m away... that's 80 seconds. If you don't cut down at least 1 of those times... you lose every solo gen before you can use Pop even once.
Contrast that with any other regression perk.
Pain Resonance goes off at the ~70s mark which is before a solo gen pops.
Jolt goes off at the 60s mark.
Eruption also goes off at the 60s mark though you do need to have kicked something before that.
Oppression can go off whenever you're near a gen you can kick. There's been multiple times I've purposefully used it on a close gen to mail a skill check to a farther gen I knew was getting worked on to save it and been successful.
Overcharge also can go off any time you're near a gen you can kick. Though I will admit that its skill check is too predictable. Overcharge actually gets a lot more value if you're running other perks that start regression. Like Oppression, Eruption, Jolt, or even Pain Resonance. That way at least they don't know if the gen is going to give them an Overcharge skill check.
As for using Oppression that way... whether it is a waste or not very much depends on which killer you are. If you are somebody who doesn't care about the ~8m of distance they gain while you kick it... it works just fine.
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The way I deal with this is to actively not play the current killer meta. Think about it. The current killer meta is all about getting a down and hook quickly then snowballing like crazy off that hook with BBQ and Pop or Ruin to shred the gen of whoever goes for the save. If that first chase takes a little too long, that entire plan falls to pieces. Also that game plan is much more stressful. Because you know if you don't kick off the snowball, you will flounder ridiculously hard. Dead Hard's buff makes that plan falling to pieces much more likely.
Let me tell you something. Having the first time Dead Hard is even usable be after you've already inflicted a decent amount of damage to the Survivors is pretty great.
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Honestly, I think the next new killer will likely have some sort of thing they can do mid chase but will also have a power and perks that slow down the game. Let's take a look at the last 3 killers, shall we? We see a pretty strong trend of killers and perks that are capable of creating a longer game.
Artist: She can throw crows at far off generators to put Survivors in a position where they have to stop what they're doing and clear the swarm or risk getting injured. She can potentially pressure multiple survivors across the map by doing this. Now we look at her perks, Pain Resonance is a regression perk with a bit of info thrown in. Pentimento is a slowdown perk that creates a new objective for Survivors. Grim Embrace puts all the generators on pause when it activates. That's a lot of game delay going on.
Pinhead: The Box. Possibly the most consistent and reliable passive slowdown power in the game. His perks are again... all 3 are looking to slow Survivors down. Deadlock pauses the most progressed Gen. Plaything heavily encourages survivors to go around and cleanse totems. Lastly, Gift of Pain is Sloppy + Slowdown after healing.
Nemesis: Zombies. If they decide to not be useless, they can actually cause a lot of trouble and delay for Survivors working on generators. Granted they aren't super reliable, but they do exist and they can put in work for you. Then Nemesis perks aren't as all in as the previous two, but still. Hysteria is obviously designed to make staying injured and slamming generators a bad idea and survivors who heal up aren't spending as much time on generators. Eruption is a regression perk who's top end result is... debatably better than Pop. It is definetly less reliable, but it can do a lot more for you. Lethal not as much, but even it sort of does help create longer games. With Lethal you can easily spot anywhere where more than 1 Survivor spawned and make a beeline for them. You being in an area with multiple survivors and putting pressure on more than one survivor at the start can be ridiculously useful for creating a longer game.
Idk about you guys, but between this and the addition of boons... it seems pretty obvious that Behavior is trying to push games to be longer. However, I doubt they'll pull another Legion style killer who goes all in on pressuring multiple survivors at a time like they do. Partially because Legion already exists and the community at large basically all think Legion is very bad because he hasn't got a way to confirm downs. So... I wouldn't expect to get really any M1 reliant killers in the future.
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Now I'll admit I have zero clue where my MMR is, but... I still get plenty of use and fun out of Legion. Their death by 1000 paper cuts game plan can still work and is still very fun to me at least.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700188#Comment_2700188
Maybe everyone complaining about this and wants to try to defend their gens should give the other regression perks a try? Pretty much all of them can kick in much earlier in the match than Pop or Ruin can. Something to think about at least.
Which regression perks kick in meaningfully earlier than Pop and Ruin?
Jolt? Not until you down someone with a basic attack.
Eruption? Not until you kick some gens AND down someone.
Oppresion? Not until you kick a gen after multiple gens have progress on them and the Survivors have left those gens without finishing them.
Either of the Scourge Hook perks? Not until you hook someone on a Scourge Hook.
Overcharge? Not until someone fails a skill check after you've gone out of your way to kick the gen (maybe in a game where there are less adept Survivors)
Am I forgetting any?
You haven't forgotten any, but you seem to not realize that walking to the Gen you want to Pop can easily take 10 seconds, especially if BBQ is your tracking perk. Picking up and carrying somebody to a hook can also take 10 seconds if you are unlucky. That right there is 25% of a generator. I'd say that's a pretty significant amount of time, wouldn't you?
The fact that other regression perks can bypass 1 or both of those steps is potentially huge and can easily make the difference between a completed and regressing generator.
Also... with Oppression there's actually nothing stopping you from just... sauntering up and booting the first gen with progress you find in the game. The surprise difficult skill check can absolutely catch even veteran survivors off guard. Maybe don't do this if you aren't somebody with mobility to catch up to the person running away... but... it can work. Or... before CoH was released and injuries actually mattered... if the map permitted, I'd sometimes use EW1's permanent undetectable, Sloppy, and Oppression to give Myers a really good early game. Like we're talking several hooks before the first gen popped levels of good.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700188#Comment_2700188
I still think gen regression is fruitless at the highest level. You'll Pop a gen that just got Tinkerer'd, leave for 10 seconds, and then another Tinkerer happens. And Ruin can be destroyed. And Jolt, they can just hold forward away from gens. And Eruption takes too much time to set up. There's nothing.
Have you tried using the other gen regression perks? They're honestly all better than most people give them credit for. Sure they don't have the raw regression that Pop does, but they literally all come online faster than Pop does. That bit of time can be all the difference between saving and losing a gen. Eruption in particular... honestly I'm almost convinced that it is better than Pop. Either way you're going to be downing a survivor and kicking a generator... the order is just flip flopped. Eruption also has its delay broken into 3 pieces and each one can easily happen earlier in the game than Pop's massive lump sum does because the main activation happens on Down and not on Hook.
To make matters even more interesting, Pop almost requires running either BBQ or Thrilling for you actually know where the Pop will do the most damage. The other regression perks? Basically every single one also moonlights as an info perk. So... if one were so inclined, you could run 4 of the "off meta" regression perks and still not be at a loss for where to go because there's explosions going off everywhere.
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If I may, that can actually backfire as well. Let me tell you, losing a gen before you've even started your first chase because you guessed wrong on where literally all the survivors spawned is not a good feeling.
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I use corrupt on Trapper for obvious reasons. Dude is a setup killer, so he needs some time to... y'know... set up. I don't really use it on anyone else though. Well... except a specific Demo build that also needs to set up.
Here's the thing. One thing I've never really understood is why Killer players complain so bitterly about losing gens early in the match when they aren't really using a killer or perks that actually help you prevent that. Like... Pop? Sure it's a great perk. Does a whole lot of regression to a single generator. Fantastic... however... it only comes online after you've found a Survivor, chased said survivor, downed them, picked them up, and put them on a hook... now it's active but you need to hike across the map to whichever generator has good progress on it and kick it. Ruin is honestly kinda similar. If you push a survivor off a gen, sure it kicks in and starts regressing that gen at a pretty good rate... but like... what's happening to the other 3 survivors who instantly hopped on their own gens? Nothing... and if you don't do something to make them stop working then they won't, and Ruin won't do you any good on that first chase.
Maybe everyone complaining about this and wants to try to defend their gens should give the other regression perks a try? Pretty much all of them can kick in much earlier in the match than Pop or Ruin can. Something to think about at least.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2698383#Comment_2698383
And all the relevant ones on that list have to commit to that fake. Huntress has a cooldown before she can M1, Demo has to commit way more to a "shot" than anyone else on the list except Billy, Phead has a cooldown before he can M1, Doctor shock isn't damaging so isn't relevant, Billy has the Overheat mechanic (lol) but more importantly has to commit more because using his power hurtles him forward and missing is more punishing, Plague vomit isn't damaging (or it is but at that point the fake also incurs a cooldown + slows her), Trickster got given a cooldown before he can M1 (noticing the pattern?), and Pig... I guess technically Pig can fake an ambush, but that isn't quite the same thing, you can't make survivors lose distance by repeatedly faking an ambush due to how slowly she moves.
None of that to say the devs didn't overkill with the nerfs that Slinger did get, but the examples you gave actually support the ADS fake nerfs.
To be honest, the only nerf Deathslinger got that I was OK with was the added delay between having his gun up and lowering it and being able to M1 again. I always found his ability to freely tap M2 to get the Survivors to start dodging and lose distance to be really dumb. So... I personally didn't do it. I'm glad they nerfed that... I'm just... not happy with anything else they did.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2698425#Comment_2698425
I see, well I personally wouldnt touch him anyway cuz he was never a thing for me tbh xD
I do have to say that I can imagine that bigger tiles like shack may be a problem for him against good survivors.
I personally would recommend continuing with that and staying far far away from him. There's just... nothing interesting there anymore.
Bigger tiles... honestly it depends. It is possible to make his power still function on tiles like shack and jungle gyms. In the few games I played as post nerf him I did manage to get some easyish hits with him by timing it so he was finishing raising his gun as I stepped around a corner. However, it did annoy me to no end that I couldn't quickscope a Survivor as they ran past a window anymore.
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Alright. In terms of raw strength... if you run him as a chase focused killer with BBQ, STBFL, M&A, and Corrupt/Pop he probably is still decent. Definitely better than the killers who are most affected by the introduction of CoH. Slinger always functioned with a 24m TR, so in this build M&A makes it so that nerf doesn't hurt near as bad. STBFL actually got buffed for him since you can break the chain on the obsession to save stacks with less of a stun. The rest of the build is just good so it works.
That said, there's two massively huge issues with the nerfs he got from my point of view.
First... chasing is all he can do now. He used to be able to do so much more. He used to be "The _____ Killer who didn't put all his eggs in one basket." You could fill that blank with any 1 of 3 things. Ranged, Stealth, or Split Pressure. He was a Ranged killer without a preshot wind up so indoor maps weren't painful, who also didn't announce his presence to literally everyone always with a lullaby, and could use M1 based perks. He was a Stealth killer who had range and anti loop, meaning that loading into wide open maps where stealth just doesn't work like Shelter Woods or Rotten Fields isn't a recipe for having an absolute garbage game like it is for Myers or Ghostface. He was a Split Pressure killer who isn't as hurt by Survivors splitting up and didn't need to rely on basic M1s for downs. In some ways, that made him better at that play style than Legion or Plague. Or at least it was debatable who does it better overall. The nerfs essentially deleted all of those alternate playstyles off of him and it sucks as somebody who rather liked them.
Second... ok... he's still a good chaser. Is he better than either Huntress or Pyramid Head? or Nurse/Spirit/Blight if you're less picky about the ranged attack? No. No, he isn't. So, then you have the question of why would anyone play him over them? I don't see any compelling reason to do so anymore. I did. Not anymore. I haven't touched him after my 2 games where I tested out just how bad he was. I suppose it didn't help that I was fighting my quickscope muscle memory but still.
tl;dr: He's not all dead, but he's dead to me and anyone else who didn't just spam his chaser build every game. But even then... why pick him over Huntress?
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@CheesyBabyBoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2697542#Comment_2697542
Yea, as far as I could tell. I know for sure at least one of them didn't use dead hard if thats what youre getting at, the others maybe, but I know now so its not a big deal
No... When Survivors are in snowmen the move really slowly. I was wondering if you got a weird bug where the snowmen didn't render. If they were moving normally, then that's not it.
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Actually, I have a question... were they moving at normal speed before you hit them?
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@CheesyBabyBoi said:
Oof okay thank you, I mostly just wanted to know if this is what that looked like, or if it was actually something that was a part of the game. Real quick, for the killer, is there any visual indication of boon totems, or do you just kinda have to walk around until you hear one? And, what is the purpose of the blue snowey effect on the killers HUD?
There's no visual for Killers for boons. You just have to hear it. The blue snowey effect on the killers HUD shows up the first time you pop a snowman with a Survivor in it. That means you're going to get one of the event cosmetics at the end of the game.
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Not a twins main, but they do need love.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2696486#Comment_2696486
Tbf, VHS has been in development since dbd came out. I assume that if dbd were to be released now it would have some or majority of perks they have in the game currently. At this point I hope vhs takes majority of dbd player base so that it forces them to actually put some work into anything but new chapters.
Honestly I'm not sure it will. I'm not saying VHS looks like a bad game or anything... but they are fundamentally different games. People who like DbD aren't necessarily going to like VHS. I mean, I've not really seen anything about VHS that makes me want to play it.
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@tenoresax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2697242#Comment_2697242
Nah I wasn't thinking of Unnerving, but I was under the impression that Overcharge skillchecks counted as greats, guess not then.
Ah, I see.
Yeah, Overcharge Skill Checks can't be "great" skill checks. Same with Oppresion skill checks actually. I just thought you were talking about Unnerving because that perk actually does give more skill checks that can be greats.
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@tenoresax said:
I'm pretty sure Overcharge basically gives the survivors free great skill checks if they can hit em, I see its use against noobs though.
Dying Light I guess is alright on Plague or maybe Legion but there's just so many other better slowdown perks to run.
You're thinking of Unnerving Presence. Makes skill checks more common and shrinks the success zones but doesn't shrink the Great Zone. Overcharge triggers a single skill check after a kick identical to the one DS does that doesn't have a Great Zone.
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@jesterkind said:
Overcharge. A meagre benefit for going out of your way to kick a generator, which is not something you want to be doing without a perk to make it worthwhile, which Overcharge does not. Maybe if you pair it with another on-kick perk like Pop or Oppression, but at that point, you're two perks in for regression and there are way better combos to use.
I've run a setup with Overcharge, Oppression, Eruption, and Brutal Strength before. It actually worked pretty well. Kick everything.
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That moment when Unnerving Presence is so bad y'all completely forget about it. It isn't technically regression, but Dying Light is also worse.
That said, I'm pretty sure Oppression is better than Overcharge. The bad part about Overcharge is that after the first surprise hard skill check, good Survivors won't get slowed down anymore. A difficult skill check as a surprise though? Good luck hitting that. Also the whole kicking unattended gens from range is actually really nice. Oppression does need a smaller cool down though.
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@CowabungaDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2696871#Comment_2696871
But spirit is just 1 killer. Same with doctor and calm spirit
In what universe is a perk hard countering an entire killer a good design? To be honest, the interaction of Doc and Calm Spirit needs to be changed. Don't know how, but it does.
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@CowabungaDude said:
You might aswell reduce the foosteps completely. When I play killer I don't use footstep sounds to track survivor anyway. And that nerf is also unnecessary
No.
You may not use footsteps for tracking, but I can tell you with confidence that anybody who plays Spirit is 100% using footsteps for tracking.
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Definitely go with Legion. Legion is really fun if you're the sort of person who enjoys control based killers who focus on the 1v4. Deathslinger meanwhile... well... he was fun, but that got nerfed out of him.
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@Avilgus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2696769#Comment_2696769
He does need a total rework. Just because you personally love his power doesn't mean other people does. People have different tastes and that's a good thing. If Legion were to not get a complete rework, how would that be fair to the people who really dislike them as they currently are? Well obviously, it wouldn't be. So no, he need a total rework.
Dude, i was just expressing my opinion.
Ok so you posted that as if those two positions are equally valid. They aren't.
If you don't like Legion... there's a very simple solution to that. Don't play as Legion.
If Legion gets essentially deleted via rework like Old Freddy did, what's the solution for people who used to love playing them? There isn't one.
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@Avilgus said:
Beside his vaulting ability, his power seems boring and very repetitive to me.
So yes, he needs a total rework, though i don't think it's gonna happen...
He does not need a total rework. Just because you personally find his power boring doesn't mean it needs to be replaced. People have different tastes and that's a good thing. If Legion were to get a complete rework, how would that be fair to the people who really like them as they currently are? Well obviously, it wouldn't be. So no. No total rework.
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So the thing about Demo is... there's nothing wrong with him. But... he's a jack of all trades killer. He literally has a bit of everything. Some anti loop with shred, some mobility with portals, some slowdown if the survivors break portals, some info from KI on portals, some stealth with brief undetectable on leaving a portal.
Where does this leave Demo? Well, not many people play him because he doesn't really have a specialty. He is the strongest killer who does it all, but he isn't super strong and easy like prenerf Freddy was so... people don't play him a ton.
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@GuyFawx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2696721#Comment_2696721
Like what if we could say lock in a perk and it just randomizes the other slots
You could do that, but that's not exactly what I meant by that post.
I enjoy the process of making and trying builds, but I do have a tendency to find a build I like and then stick with it for quite a while (load out slots when?). A feature to give me a 100% random loadout isn't appealing to me. What I'd do is use the random load out button to pick ONE of my perks, then I build around it to make it as good as possible.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2696701#Comment_2696701
Yeah, I like Agitiation too for similar reasons. Although I still get stressed actually swinging at a survivor while carrying someone with it simply because it bumps up their timer.
I still haven’t tried the “Carrying the Game” combo though: Agitation, Mad Grit, Thrilling Tremors, and Scourge Hook Pain Resonance. Down someone, pick them up, see a red generator with Thrilling, and carry them to it, hitting other survivors along the way. Then proc Pain Resonance.
Oh I've done a similar build to that one. I nicknamed it The Koolaid Man build. Thrilling, Agitation, Starstruck, Pop. Pick somebody up, rush the not blocked generator while carrying, hook, pop, insta down. It's pretty fun ngl. Especially as somebody with a difficult to avoid M1 like old Slinger.
I had a variant of that build before I had Starstruck too but I don't remember what I replaced it with.
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I was about to say, I personally wouldn't use it but I could see certain people enjoying it. They should add it. Then I realized that I probably would but maybe not exactly as intended.
I wouldn't ever run a fully randomized loadout. But what I could easily see myself doing is pushing the random button, then making a loadout around whatever perk ended up in my first slot.
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Agitation.
The thing about Agitation is that it allows you to weaponize the part of the game when you're carrying people. Normally that's the point where you as the Killer are at your most vulnerable. The fact that this perk flips the script on that is honestly fantastic. I can't tell you how many times a game has started going south for Survivors because they tried to do something fancy and Agitation shut them down. Seriously this perk has a permanent spot in like... all my builds even without Scourge Hooks or Starstruck because I find it just that nice.
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Get Oni. After his last set of nerfs, Deathslinger has no Redeeming qualities.
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@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2695633#Comment_2695633
dont know how that fix this especific issue im talking about, maybe create another topic. this gamestyle is done by all tier of killers, actually in high mmr is done aswell because it juts works giving free stages and potentially 2 kills at least with 2 hooks.
People use the tactics you're describing because the current MMR system only looks at whether you killed somebody. This tactic is effective at getting 2 kills. Possibly more if the Survivors don't realize what's up and GTFO. The system is rewarding the behavior so Killer players continue to do it. So... change the system so it doesn't reward this.
Under the old rank system, Killers almost never did that because the system did not reward them for having gens fly, only 2 hooks, nearly no chases, and staying next to the hook for long periods of time. So... Killers didn't do it nearly as often.
A global nerf to camping is a bad idea because there's still a section of the game where camping is basically the only productive thing killers can do. Also I'm pretty sure they've attempted to nerf camping in the past and Survivors abused it.
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Undo the MMR System and put the emblems back in? Maybe with like 10 more ranks that continue to get progressively harder to maintain so we don't have tons of people with a wide range of skill all in Rank 1.
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If the false positives go away, I actually wouldn't mind the pallet validation. Let's be honest, most times when you get pallet validated, you know you're going for a risky swing. If it didn't have the sound and animation of a successful hit, it would look and feel perfectly fine.
Dead Hard though... no. In addition to the aforementioned false positives, Dead Hard validation has the following issues.
- This was essentially a buff to possibly the best Survivor perk in the game. Let that sink in for a second. Exhaustion perks are the strongest Survivor perks in existence. That's why they have exhaustion on them. Dead Hard or Sprint Burst was the best of those perks. Dead Hard got buffed. Why? It didn't need a buff and shouldn't have gotten a buff.
- Unlike pallet validation, Dead Hard validation can happen literally anywhere. You can't see it coming and mentally be like "This is an iffy swing; I might get validated." because you have zero clue when the Survivor is going to use their E button. Heck, you don't even necessarily know if they have an E button... but let's be honest, almost everyone does now.
- Dead Hard validation causes issues with "Go until you hit something" killer powers. Specifically, Victor Pounce on the Twins, Shred on Demo, and Ambush on Pig. With all of these powers, your model stops moving because your DbD thinks you hit something, then the server says no. This is really bad because these powers used to be able to "hit through" Dead Hard sometimes because if not timed perfectly, the Survivor might still be in the active hit box when their I Frames ended and get hit anyway.
- I'm putting Victor as another entry because of just how bad it is for him. What should happen on a miss is that Victor throws himself through the I Frames Survivor... quite possibly far enough away to not get kicked. Instead, this validation results in Victor stopping dead 2m behind the Survivor because he "hit" them on his side and the Survivor who's abusing Dead Hard gets a free kick. This can be game losing for the Twins player depending on how far away Charlotte is.
- Nemesis Tentacle. Once your tier 2, whipping over a pallet at a Survivor should be a no lose situation. Either you hit the Survivor, or you break the pallet. Well... Dead Hard Validation breaks this. Nemesis's DbD sees the hit, tells the server, server says no... and nothing checks if there's a freaking pallet to hit instead. If the tentacle gets validated it doesn't turn into a pallet break even though it should.
Short version: Pallet Validation needs to lose the false positives, but will be fine after that. Dead Hard Validation needs to be deleted.
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In general, I would vastly prefer underperforming perks get buffed instead of removed. I'm the sort of player who likes to experiment with perk builds so I'm very glad we have as many perks as we do. I am aware a lot of them need some love, but I don't want any deleted.
I do think that a few of your examples shouldn't be there... But I'm not going to get into that unless you want me to.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2690174#Comment_2690174
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2690182#Comment_2690182
So, you rather not give them more perks even if you'd get more too. I can understand your points... even if having more room for more perks as a killer is also attractive to me.
Survivors have more borderline broken perks than Killer does. Also a lot of good killer perks clash with each other. Like Deadlock and new Scourge Hook are both good but they can get in the way of like... Pop and such. Survivor 2nd chance perks? None of them conflict. Maybe Adrenaline and the other Exaustion perks can conflict but they're set up so they can also complement each other way too well.
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I'd rather not see a survivor with DH, DS, UB, BT, CoH/Adrenaline thanks.
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Blight is best at it. Wraith is probably 2nd best. Nurse, Spirit, Billy are all decent at it. Legion is actually also pretty good at it. In a weird sort of way, Trapper is also very good at it. I mean, you never have to hold W after a Survivor if they keep putting their feet in bear traps.
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@themoobs1984 said:
Good grief. Stop. Victor doesn't need a Santa hat, sunglasses, a top hat, or any of that other nonsense. The Twins need some love from the devs for gameplay issues.
Por que no los dos?
(why not both?)
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In theory, nothing assuming you're doing gens and such. In practice it can screw over your team. Like if you've not been hooked and you've got teammates on death hook, continuing to hide will hurt the team worse than taking aggro so your teammate doesn't die.
As for that killer in particular, most Killers aren't used to going against stealthy survivors. They don't handle it well and think its boring.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2686648#Comment_2686648
How am I misunderstanding it? Because I find it annoying? Because I don't think ranged control should be a thing?
"It does nothing else to inhibit actions or anything, so why does this require an input to repel the swarm?"
"Make the crow swarm a timed thing that automatically dissipates."
"There's zero reason for this to require an input."
Those 3 statements all heavily implied that you didn't get that Artist is a control based killer. Which is why my post is what it is. You'll notice that at no point did I say you shouldn't find it annoying or that you had to like control killers. You're allowed to like/dislike whatever you do. However, one should also realize that some people vastly prefer both using and facing control killers over say... insta down killers. Asking for a killer to get a Old Freddy level rework because you happen to find them unfun is... poor taste to say the least.
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I feel like you missed the memo on what kind of killer Artist is.
She's a ranged control killer. She shares many more similarities to Legion than really any other killer in the game. The Repel action isn't an automatic process for the same reason that mending Legion's deep wound isn't an automatic process. Those mechanics are both there to allow the Killer to slow down the game to make up for their lower than average lethality. Seriously... unless Artist hits close range direct hits, she has to land 4 crows to down somebody. If she didn't have the delay/control aspects to her... well why would anyone ever play her over Huntress or Pyramid Head? I get that you find repelling the crows annoying but that's literally what is keeping her functional in her own niche.
Now if you don't enjoy playing against Control Killers, well that's fine. But calling a killers entire game plan "problematic" more shows you don't understand the game plan than anything else.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2686108#Comment_2686108
That is a very broad definition and there's a reason that not ever killer is considered anti loop. Sure you could say stealth is anti loop but once your in the loop you have no anti loop so that doesn't really work.
Ranged killer are once of the most loop able killers because of there 110 moments and they also slow down slower then a survivor on wind up so there more of an anti animation lock killer.
Sure if you try to run all the way across the map when you know they are mobile. You get 3 seconds just on the cooldown plus whatever it takes for them to get to you to make it to a loop. Most of them have to play the loop(nurse excluded) so you can still loop them.
Yeah I would agree traps are pretty anti loop.
You can still loop them just because you only get one hit doesn't mean you can't loop them so no on isnta down.
I know they are anti loop killers thats why they have anti loop in there kit.
I never said her anti loop specifically was the problem its the power of anti loop in general. You see because there are strong anti loop killers(i mean there anti loop is strong not them) you have to have strong loops that can still somewhat be used but the problem is if you don't have anti loop or crazy mobility then your really weak. What 4v1 does the artist have? She's good 1v1 and good info but doesn't have map wide pressure.
It is a broad definition, and I would argue that it is correct. There are numerous ways to counteract looping and not all of them involve muscling through them or hitting over/through them. In fact, games as Tier 1 Myers have been some of the least looping heavy games I've had barring Nurse. However, I do know what you mean, and I'll be referring to them as Chase Powers moving forward.
What 1v4 does she have? Simple. Her crows have infinite range and pierce everything. She can throw them at far off gens and any survivor hit has to either spend 8s getting rid of them or risk her throwing more to injure and eventually down them. She can throw 3 of them every 12ish seconds. Theoretically she can have 1 person in chase and the other 3 clearing crows and have 0 survivors on gens 75% of the time. Obviously, that wouldn't ever happen and I'm not sure she'd ever catch the person she was chasing if she did it, but the potential is there. That's why I say she has 1v4. Because she does. She can spread flocks of crows much like how Legion spreads Deep Wounds and Injuries. It takes a good amount of situational awareness to do it and to not focus 100% on the chase but it is possible.
Regardless, that's why while yes she has a chase power as well, her chase power is undeniably worse than all of the killers who do focus on chases and even some that don't. Nurse, Spirit, Nemesis, Pyramid Head, Bubba, Huntress, Blight, Demo, and arguably even Doctor all are better in chase than she is.
To be honest that 2nd paragraph is why I'm so confused by everybody being like "Ugggh, not another anti loop killer." because I don't see her as a chase killer. If I want chase... I'm going to play Spirit. In my mind she's a ranged control killer who has more in common with Legion than anyone else. That's why I personally enjoy playing her.
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Ok, so... firstly pretty much every killer has some form of antiloop.
Stealth is anti loop because they sneak up on you and hit you before you even realize you need to get to one.
Range is anti loop because most of them can hit over pallets and windows.
Mobility is anti loop because you can get all up on a Survivor before they have time to get to an area that's actually useful or hasn't been used yet.
Traps are anti loop because suddenly staying at a now trapped loop is a terrible plan.
Insta Downs is anti loop because you only get 1 shot at looping instead of 2... also the majority of insta downs can also be used to chew up pallets.
Some killers even flat out make certain interactions impossible to do during chase... which is anti loop. That's mostly Doc and Pin Head but they exist and have anti loop.
You can't get away from anti loop. Every killer has it. I think the only 2 who don't really have it are Plague and Legion vs injured Survivors and they're kinda considered bad because they don't have anti loop vs injured Survivors. Plague less so because red puke exists, but still.
Now... now that we've gotten that out of the way... is Artist's anti loop problematic? I would say no. Her anti loop is definitely not anywhere near the best in the game because she has other strengths. Those other strengths are exactly why I like her. I love her detection. I love how she can harass Survivors from across the map. I honestly love that she's the first killer we've gotten in a while who has a power that is good in the 1v4 without just speeding up the 1v1 without requiring copious amounts of setup. I think the only other killer like that is Legion who came out way back in 2018.
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Yes absolutely.
MMR may have changed this somewhat, but let me briefly go through my experience as a beginner killer.
After my initial cycle of trying out the 5 starting killers, I settled on Huntress. I played her a bit and had... honestly pretty easy games until I hit rank 16. Once I got there I simultaneously hit Survivors who both started dodging my uncharged hatchets and started being able to find and break Hexes. At the time, I didn't realize that the point of charging hatchets was to make them harder to dodge and didn't have anything to replace Huntress Lullaby + Thrill of the Hunt with because the basic set for Killers sucks. In short, I hit a massive difficulty spike.
So, what happened? Well, I realized I neither had the perks nor skill I needed to compete with the Survivors I was getting so I decided to branch out. See if I could handle other killers better. The other free killer who interested me was Nurse. Yes... Nurse. I'm guessing you all probably realize how that went.
If another killer player went through anything even remotely similar to what I did starting out, I would not blame them even a little bit for quitting.
I didn't though... for 1 simple reason. Legion. I had watched a Legion game played by a friend and was very interested in their play style. So... I saved up shards and got them. They kept me playing Killer for the following 5 reasons, though I didn't realize it at the time.
- Legion is going to stab you with Frenzy. It almost doesn't matter how good the Legion is or how good you are... you are almost certainly not going to successfully loop a 130% killer who can vault just as fast as you can for 10 seconds. It just isn't going to happen. That means that Legion is one of the only killers in the game where it is impossible to make them do literally nothing all game. Let me tell you that feeling like you accomplished something even on a bad loss is huge. Especially when matchmaking keeps screwing you over.
- Legion can actually function with the easy to get garbage on offer to the Killer side. Prior to Jolt being added to the Killer's base set... the only decent gen Slowdown perk available without spending Shards or Money is Thanatophobia. Legion is one of very few Killers who can use that perk well. Meaning that other than the cost of getting Legion, getting a functional Legion perk build off the ground is actually doable. I really can't say that for the majority of other Killers.
- Legion has natural slowdown in their kit. Remember how I just said that getting decent slowdown as a new killer was damn near impossible? Well Legion's got it baked in. If you're on Legion with Thana, getting gen rushed and all Survivors getting out in 5 minutes just isn't going to happen. You still can lose. You can still lose badly. But a 5 minute 4 man out isn't happening. That gives you more time to chill out a bit, relax a bit, and actually learn and think about how the match went.
- Legion's power makes them more resilient to Survivor shenanigans. Not immune to it mind you, but more resilient to it. Most annoying shenanigans that can ruin a newbie killer's game require Survivors to group up, stand around for a bit, and are usually much more difficult to do while injured if not impossible. Everyone knows grouping up vs Legion is a very bad plan. Standing around while deep wounded flat out doesn't work. Healing vs Legion is also a bad plan. So... just on the whole, a newbie Legion is going to get less flashlight, pallet, sabo, and head on saves and less body blocking hooks than your average killer will. Just because their power frequently makes doing those things impractical at best and impossible at worst.
- While Legion does have a lot of little techs and strategies you can use to make them and their power better, none of them are absolutely crucial to letting their power function. Like charging Huntress's hatchets, like feathering Billy's saw, like the entirety of Nurse, like body blocking while uncloaking as Wraith, like the massive amount of knowledge of how Survivors think and play that makes Trapper useful. This makes Frenzy hands down the most approachable power in Dbd.
To be honest... it is my opinion that the best thing Behavior could do at this point to help newbie Killers is make the Darkness Within DLC free like they did with Nurse and Huntress.
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sort of.
If a game is wildly and completely out of balance where one thing is just... broken beyond all reason and you have to use that thing or lose... then it probably won't be fun. Unless of course you happen to be one of the people who enjoys abusing the broken thing.
However, a game that is more balanced is not inherently more fun. It may even be less fun depending on how the balance was achieved. After all, the only way to have a 100% balanced game is to have something like Street Fighter 1... where it was a 1v1 with 2 characters that were merely pallet swaps of each other.
That's why Developers need to be very careful when they're balancing their game. Generally speaking better balance is a good thing but you DO NOT want to get there by lopping off the interesting bits of your game. If you do get there that way, you'll just kill your game.
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I find coffee to be disgusting. So I'll go with tea. Though to be honest, in the morning when I need caffeine, I don't go for either.
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@GannTM said:
When COH exists, there’s nothing that will convince me to play Legion right now.
To be honest, Legion is actually 1 of 2 maybe 3 split pressure killers that doesn't get completely wrecked by CoH. There's 3 reasons for that. First is they spread Deep Wound as well as injuries which CoH doesn't affect, so you're still getting 28s of delay with a Frenzy stab with a CoH heal. Second is that yes, the Survivors heal up in 16 seconds, but you injure them in like... 4 seconds, so you're still coming out ahead. Third, it used to be that smart Survivors almost never healed vs Legion because it wasn't worth it. It still isn't even with CoH but it feels like it is... so they heal with CoH and waste time.
Obviously, Plague is the other one who still functions, and Artist is the maybe.
Edit: I will say though, Thana isn't worth running anymore even for Legion.
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@Impose said:
Thats most of the fun perks in this game. They suck but they're fun. Forcing you to either have fun or win. There's no middle ground. Game is full of these ridiculous limit perks that really should not have limits or should have their limits changed.
PWYF, Furtive Chase, Surge, Dead Mans Switch, Eruption, Grim Embrace
See, this is one of the reasons why I main Legion. Their power gives you lots of information and slowdown, so you don't have to bring the most powerful info and regression perks in the game like most Killers do. Sure you can run BBQ + Pop or Ruin Undying Tinkerer on them... but you don't have to. Instead you can run hybrid perks like Eruption or Oppression to give you the little bit of extra regression and info you need and then you have a free perk slot for something fun.
In fact, my current Legion build is Coup, Eruption, Brutal, and Agitation.
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Coup De Grace is a very fun perk. I've been running it on Legion, and it works incredibly well for them. Also yes, the Survivors never really expect you to have it.