FFirebrandd
FFirebrandd
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Legion does not need to be changed.
Just because you don't happen to like the only killer in the entire game that focuses on the 1v4 instead of the 1v1 does not mean we shouldn't have a 1v4 killer.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2933133#Comment_2933133
Does coup work with frenzy lunge?
No which is exactly what you want it to do. Frenzy is already gonna get injuries all over the place, and that fact allows you to get people on the floor with every coup stack.
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So, the interesting thing about Legion is that nearly every perk in the game can work on them. STBFL, mid chase info, and Exposed perks aren't particularly useful for them... but just about anything else is.
Post chase info (BBQ, Infectious, Thrilling Tremors), Slowdown, chase perks (endfury, Brutal Strength, Bamboozle, Blood Pact, PWYF, Coup De Grace), and even Stealth (controlled stealth though like Trail of Torment) can literally all work on them. They are incredibly flexible. A lot of making a build for Legion comes down to what you personally need help with.
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New Legion is not oppressive. They're definitely better than they were but they definitely are nowhere near unbeatable. If they get nerfed, I'm going to be very disappointed in BHVR.
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That was an amazingly well written and thought-out post. I will admit that coming into this I was very certain the biggest problem with DbD right now was the new player experience. You've actually convinced me that this is a bigger problem... also much harder to solve.
I did actually come up with a tweak for generators that might help with this? It was more designed around fixing how the first few gens always pop very quickly but the last 1-2 gens can slog on and on and trying to balance that out.
My idea was that there would be four different types of hand tools scattered across the map and enough copies of each for each Survivor to have one. Hammer, Wrench, Screwdriver, and Pliers. Each unique tool would buff a Survivor's repair speed by 12% but generators would take 100 charges to repair instead of 80. With those numbers, 1 survivor with 2 tools would repair about how they would now. A 4 tool survivor would repair a gen in about 60 seconds, but finding all 4 tools could take a lot of searching.
For the record, I do like your idea for how you open up the exit gates.
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I'm sorry you had a game like that.
Sloppy Butcher was not overpowered. Unless the rework to hemorrhage is way better than it sounds like it is, it is still not overpowered.
Twins do however need some changes to make slugging less appealing. Not a complete rework though. Honestly the ability to recall an idle Victor and allowing swapping back to Charlotte to bypass the 5 second cooldown Victor has when he downs somebody might be enough on their own.
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It's the day after a significant buff to two different killers. That sort of thing usually makes killer queues worse for a bit.
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The Legion buff did in fact change things. Now the 5th hit in a frenzy chain puts the survivor into the dying state (barring endurance effects). It's a base kit change, though that particular person is running an add on that makes it easier to pull off.
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Funnily enough, Never Sleep Pills + Mural Sketch = Marathon Legion.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2923107#Comment_2923107
Pin heads perks won't see the shrine for at least a year because they want you to buy pinhead.
I mean, probably but it won't work on me at least. I care neither about Pinhead nor his power. Deadlock is nifty but I can wait.
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I wouldn't.
I'm pretty sure the only reason you don't see it a ton is because it's on a licensed killer and I don't think Pinhead's perks have made it to the shrine yet.
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I started shortly before Deathslinger got added. I'm not really sure when that was.
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@Widden said:
Not bodyblocking. My issue is when i hit survivor, they can pass through me and i can’t see them. Or when i catch them on wall corner, i deserve to hook them instantly however hitting survivors allow them to escape from me
May I recommend playing as Bubba, Hillbilly, or Plague? They won't be able to run through you if your chainsaw puts them on the ground. Also catching them out on a wall or corner will in fact give you a hook because chainsaw only needs 1 hit. For Plague, Survivors going from healthy to injured via your infection don't get a speed boost or lose collision.
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I don't know if it was a full on accusation of hacking... but I had a Survivor questioning how I knew they were hidden behind a rock... and I was Legion in Frenzy after a hit. Killer Instinct bro.
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Honestly what they mostly need to do is make the beginning Killer experience better. That'll go a long way to keeping more killers playing. To that end they should do these things.
1. All perk slots unlocked from the word go for both sides. Rank 1 perks aren't great but 3 rank 1 perks will be better than only 1 vs people with full load outs.
2. Buff most of the general perks for killers. There's a lot of useless crap in there which is why so many new killers run NOED. It is literally their only good perk.
3. Buff the bad perks belonging to Wraith, Huntress, Trapper, and Nurse. As it stands, Survivors can acquire DH, UB, and BT by investing zero iri shards and blood points into only 2 characters. Killers don't really get anything remotely comparable to work with for a similar time investment.
4. Make Legion free. Legion has a very approachable power which is very good for a new killer. Also, Frenzy is nearly impossible to completely deny and has built in slowdown so a new Legion probably will never feel like they got totally bodied. Lastly, bullying a killer usually requires being healthy and grouping up... Good luck pulling that off against Legion... So they are oddly resilient against shenanigans. Jeff can be free too if necessary.
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Oh this is fantastic. This basically fixed all my misgivings with Legion's current PTB state. The only thing left is that I personally think that the break speed effects should be yellow and the power refresh on stun should be purple (aka flip them). But... that's a minor quibble at most.
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Wait... Is this real?
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Rpd is in a league of it's own for me. This is the only map I'm 100% with DCing on if there's a map offering. No good comes from a match with a survivor RPD offering.
Midwich is bad but not nearly as bad.
Then there are killer dependent maps. The Game is pain if I'm not on a killer who can deal with tons of pallets somehow. Shelter Woods and Rotten Fields suck as stealth killers. Eyre and Cowshed are terrible as M1 Killers because there's too many strong chain able loops.
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Not really no. Which is why I dropped him completely after 2 games of testing his nerfs.
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My Killer main is Legion. I saw a friend playing as them and thought they looked fun.
My Survivor main is Zarina. She I got because her perks looked like great fun and they are. Not the most viable things in the world, but really fun.
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Boons do need fixed. However I've never liked the whole "Break the totem" fix. I'd honestly prefer this:
When the killer snuffs a totem, all of the following happen.
- The Survivor who owns the boon cannot replace it for 60 seconds.
- The Survivor who owns the boon screams, revealing their location.
- The Killer gets a haste effect of... 5-10% for 10 seconds.
Also they need to make the area where you can snuff it more forgiving. I shouldn't have to shuffle in front of the totem for a second or two trying to find the spot where I can actually snuff it.
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Let's see...
Myers needs a few... more modernizations than buffs. The man can still run out of his power. His add ons are pretty good though.
Freddy needs changes overall. Also, I'd like for him to at least get an addon to turn him into old Freddy.
Deathslinger needs some of his nerfs reverted.
Pyramid Head's add ons are kinda pathetic. His base kit is perfectly fine though.
Onryo needs her post release tune up.
Twins... I'd like for them to be able to recall a VIctor who's just sitting somewhere. Also I'd like for the post down Victor Cool Down to get changed so that its 5s if you stay as Victor but you can swap back to Charlotte it is like... 2 seconds.
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Um, so a few spots you mention inflicting the Terrorized status effect but I don't see anywhere where you explain what that does.
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CoH will either continue to be a problem or will be too weak to be worth a perk slot and become irrelevant.
Why?
Because it is impossible for a killer to counter it mid game. Sure if you pick Plague CoH ceases to matter. If you picked Demo... you got nothing.
Because of that it and honestly every other boon will either be good enough to be run and be broken because Killers can't counter it or will be irrelevant. The base mechanic of Boons needs an overhaul.
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Why would they not have different MMR?
I can maybe see all 115% M1 killers influencing each other's MMR, but Nurse and any 110% killer? Absolutely not. Honestly though even the 115 M1 killers play different enough that they probably shouldn't. I mean... Wraith, Legion, and Clown all play pretty differently.
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The boon mechanic is not fine. Kicking a boon doesn't give the killer enough for the time it takes them to do it. Because the base counter play to boons is severely lacking, boons will either be broken beyond all reason like CoH is or too weak to be worth the perk slot with nothing in between. That's not a good place for them to be.
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One thing I've heard pretty consistently is that TV's stay off for too long when Sadako uses them. That might be a good spot to start. That and maybe buffing up her speed boost post teleport and post manifest phasing. Also, I don't really get why she has a lullaby.
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It's really not.
There's several licensed killers that are good but I don't even know if any of them are in the top five. In addition to that, you can make very serviceable builds without any perks from licensed characters and
The only way it is slightly pay to win is BBQ and DS. Those two perks are fantastic for their respective sides but are found on license killers. The Shrine of Secrets does mitigate that a bit... but the shrine honestly needs to be made better. Even just upgrading it to 4 perks from each side and making it impossible for perks from free characters to show up there would be a massive improvement. Seriously... nobody needs Urban Evasion to be in the Shrine.
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@Chewy102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892009#Comment_2892009
Why not an Uno reverse?
Keep the smaller good zones, but make landing a great skill check give a negative progress instead? Wouldn't really effect your average player as most will aim for the good zones. But skilled player wouldn't be able to take advantage over UP, they in fact would have their muscle memory screwed with due to wanting to avoid great skill checks.
Ooh I like that. That'd be neat.
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For a while now I've wanted Unnerving Presence to still increase odds of skill checks, but replace the standard ones with Old Ruin's skill checks. It's really dumb that a Killer perk can make gens and healing faster.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2889624#Comment_2889624
I'm not sure I agree with that. Unrelenting and Monstrous Shrine are objectively awful, yes, but the rest of those are perfectly serviceable- especially for a new player.
Iron Grasp is helpful for keeping hold of a survivor for longer, useful for new players. Agitation is the better "get to a further hook" perk, but as a non-teachable, IG is perfectly adequate. Distressing is niche, not bad, a distinction too many people don't seem to acknowledge. Claustrophobia is probably gonna catch out newer survivors more often than experienced ones.
Then we move up to the second set of perks that are just good, especially for new players. Spies is reliable specific-survivor tracking to complement Whispers being excellent "anyone at all nearby" tracking, and Deerstalker is a perfect new player perk since it helps them keep track of slugs better. Thrill is the one exception, being a perk that's mostly good as a boon counter and thus less useful for newbies, and I've gone on record saying I think it should be buffed in one specific way - but even then, it's a good perk.
Killer non-teachable perk pools are in a way better spot than people make them out to be, especially for newer players. Unrelenting and Monstrous Shrine are the only genuine clunkers in that list.
You are very wrong.
Iron Grasp is only useful in four situations. First, you are going for a longer than average carry that you couldn't make at base. Second, you are getting body blocked which probably won't happen for newbie killers if they're actually facing newbie survivors. Third, you are actively chasing survivors while carrying with Agitation. Fourth, you really want basement hooks and are running both Iron Grasp and Agitation. It really isn't that useful, and you'll notice that two of those uses requires Agitation.
Distressing actively hampers your ability to find Survivors and get fast chases. It gives survivors a lot more warning that you're coming so they can either hide or run. The only time it is even a passable perk is if you are stacking other perks and abilities that weaponize your Terror Radius. Any perk that is actively harmful to your game is not a good perk. If it had some TR weaponization of its own, then sure... I'd call it niche... but without it it's just bad but maybe passable if you build around it, and newbies won't have the perks they'd need to do that in the first place.
Claustrophobia is only good if you are actively approaching a generator that's near done and being worked on. That requires a decent amount of situational awareness that a new killer is unlikely to have. Also you're giving up a generator for its effects which... unless you get a down out of it it isn't worth it. It may not be even then.
Spies would be reasonably good if crow spawns were consistent. I've not run the perk in a while, but I distinctly remember having Spies go off zero times some games when I was starting out on Killer because some maps have terrible crow spawns.
Deerstalker is even worse for newbies vs for vets because a newbie isn't likely to slug anyone. It isn't immediately obvious what the Killer gains out of slugging so it is unlikely that they'll actually do it.
Ok, so I personally think Thrill of the Hunt is an absolutely useless perk at this point full stop. Now... even if you think it is Ok for veterans for its countering boons... it is still useless for a newbie. They aren't going to have Hexes to defend and their opponents won't (or at least shouldn't) have boons to place.
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Honestly... the thing I think they need to look at next is the general pool of killer perks. Those are the only perks a newbie killer is guaranteed to be able to get regardless of who they play and... most of them are terrible. Iron Grasp, Unrelenting, Monstrous Shrine, Distressing, and Claustrophobia are all terrible. Then Thrill of the Hunt, Spies, and Deerstalker aren't all that good either. That only leaves 6 general killer perks at the level of decent/good. That's... not enough.
As a side benefit, one really nice way to make the grind less bad is to make it less necessary by making the free stuff not garbage.
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Circle of Healing, Dead Hard, Boil Over, Monstrous Shrine, Unnerving Presence.
First two are pretty obvious.
For Boil Over... it's less problematic now than it used to be. However, what I would much rather it do is be sort of like Decisive Strike. So, your first pick up it gives some annoyances to the Killer. However, if you get picked up under the rules where DS is active all the annoyances are ramped up to 11 and you get a wiggle speed buff.
Monstrous Shrine is only not problematic because it sucks. If it was good, it would heavily encourage Killers to hook in the basement and camp the crap out of them. I'd much rather it essentially give the Killer max token Fire Up (or like... 7 token Fire Up) while you've got a Survivor hanging in the basement. That would encourage you to basement people but then go off and chase other people and not camp.
Unnerving Presence can actively hurt you and make generators and healing in your TR faster. It needs to inflict the old Ruin skill checks instead.
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I have no idea. Getting rid of that is like... the thing I most wanted from this rework.
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I think Sadako was a bit of a flop... but not because of anything wrong with her or her perks.
The first thing is that she came out not that long after the controversy with MMR. It doesn't take a genius to know that if people aren't happy with the general direction of the game, they probably won't spend money on it. The other problem is that she's a hit and run killer released while CoH is still meta and broken. She's going to struggle in that environment. People know that and probably aren't going to want to spend money on a killer who's going to struggle.
I don't think she was as much of a flop as Twins, but I think there's a decent number of people who didn't buy her who would have if the state of the game was better. To be honest, I'm one of them.
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Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Welp, I learned something today. 100% thought Call of Brine was broken bamboo for some reason.
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omg I feel this so much. I've not prestiged Legion because I'd never run the bloody set over the blighted set and have most of the perks I've got on him... and every blood web this pops up. It's getting really old.
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Nurse has 2 addons that could cause this.
Iridescent Matchbox which makes her 105% but removes a blink.
Spasmodic Breath which makes her 115% for 60 seconds after she successfully lands a blink attack.
Alternatively, very rarely when playing as Nurse, I've managed to corner Survivors in such a way that I can land non blink hits without either add on. Or they end up running around something and back into me about when my fatigue ended.
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@GoshJosh said:
I think it’s fine as is, but wouldn’t mind if it also affected hooking speed (as someone else suggested recently on the forums). It could also speed up snuffing a totem, as could Brutal Stength.
You have to factor in that it is stackable with both Brutal Strength and Bamboozle. So you can’t make its values too high.
So... legitimate question here.
Are you aware that Shadow Dance - Blood + Serpent Wraith exists?
If you don't, Shadow Dance - Blood makes Wraith break pallets and damage gens 60% faster while cloaked and Serpent takes Wraith out of stealth when he breaks a pallet or gen. That stacks with Brutal Strength and Bamboozle.
I've watched people use this build several times. You know what? It isn't broken. It isn't uncounterable. It's good... but it isn't broken and that's even with Wraith's post uncload speed boost. For that reason I firmly believe that Fire Up could get its effects doubled and it still wouldn't be problematic.
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Honestly removing that penalty and the penalty for picking up someone while frenzy is active are the two things I wanted most from Legions update. I have no idea why them getting removed didn't get mentioned in the dev blog.
If those changes aren't in the patch notes when those eventually come out, I'm going to be rather upset.
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So... I don't know if this nerf will be enough for Circle of Healing to move from the "Meta" bucket to the "Basically unusable" bucket... the real issue is that those are the only 2 buckets that Boons can end up in in their current state. Which means either way the Devs missed the mark.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2877079#Comment_2877079
Why is it that the Developers intentionally screw survivors over and over again with meta perks. Can you explain to the survivor-players why they haven't received a meta perk since "Windows of Opportunity" with Kate Densen on June 2018 yet every killer release, they receive a brand new meta changing perk. You have effectively removed "Circle of Healing" as a meta perk so there has been literally 1 single meta changing perk in 4 years. Isn't that a problem that you all cater so hard to killer mains yet haven't changed the game for survivors in 4 years?
They aren't intentionally screwing over Survivors.
It comes down to the baseline of Offense, Defense, and Recovery options available to Survivors. Their offense (gen speeds) are generally good enough. Their defense (looping, pallets, windows, holding W) is also very good. Their Recovery options aren't bad... at base healing is decent and Medkits are very good. However Survivor Recovery has one massive glaring hole. Once a survivor loses a hook state, that's it, they can't get it back. Once the Survivor team loses a member... that's basically it... the Killer has probably won at that point. To make matters worse, a Survivor is basically in the worst position the could be right after getting unhooked. They're injured, they're loud, they're bleeding, they just caused a loud noise so the killer knows where they are and that they're a potential target again and... honestly the best target if the Killer is going for winning no matter what.
That's why the Survivor meta is what it is. They run the best, most reliable ways to bail themselves or their teammates out of that terrible situation. The other exhaustion perks are good and can be as impactful as SB or DH but none of them can reliably used right after getting unhooked so they see much less usage. Borrowed Time is nearly a must if the Killer is camping or returns to the hook. Decisive Strike is still meta despite its nerf because its the only perk that can reliably slow down a Killer who's dead set on tunneling. Adrenaline can result in a Survivor coming off hook fast and healthy. Then Unbreakable is used to try to break a Killer's other win condition of "Have everybody in the dying state".
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Freddy. Freddy's initial kit looks like I would have an absolute blast with it. His current kit is... meh at best.
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In all honesty, I'm not looking forward to these changes.
I have a very bad feeling that this 5th hit is a down business will either result in Legion getting nerfed again in the future or be so rare that it isn't relevant but prevents them from getting further buffs to things that would help far more.
Here's the thing... If/when Legion gets to where the next hit is the 5th... they'll be running at 6.0 m/s... the same as every Exhaustion perk except Dead Hard... will still be able to vault windows and pallets... and will be able to insta down a healthy Survivor. Being on the receiving end of that will suck. You legitimately can't counter it unless you already have a huge amount of distance on them.
If Legion getting to that 5th hit is even a bit consistent, how soon before Survivors start complaining that they were the person who wasn't even in the Frenzy chain who got wrecked by it? Not very. How soon after that until Behavior nerfs Legion for being "Oppressive"? Probably also not very. Unless the nerf is to remove that feature... Legion might end up worse than where they started.
If Legion getting to that 5th hit isn't consistent in the slightest, well... that will basically make buffing them further even more risky than it already is because of a mechanic that isn't actually useful. Which will probably leave them to continue to flounder in a spot where they desperately need a tune up that Behavior will probably never deliver.
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It used to be possible to run stuff like Thana, Trail of Torment, and other perks that punish staying injured which would force Survivors to group up to heal... but... Circle of Healing exists now. So no more of that. Now Survivors just run to the boon, solo mend, solo heal, and get back on gens.
The only time you'll have Survivors guaranteed to be grouped is during a hook rescue. You can still work with that... sort of. You need to run perks that get you free M1's... but not ones that only work on your first hit of the chase. My current favorite is Coup De Grace. Endfury also can work. Also, you need to return to the hook every single time. Frenzy the unhooked, chase the rescuer.
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I'm... a mixture of underwhelmed and worried.
Overall... in my opinion, the Speed Boost is good. The Cooldown is good. The add on changes are unknown. The Fatigue reduction could cause Legion to become oppressive and get them nerfed elsewhere. Same with the 5th hit down... that could also end up being very oppressive and get them nerfed elsewhere. The unique chase music is... cool but a minor indirect nerf... Legion needed to really capitalize on their first Frenzy use before all the Survivors know its them... but now special music announces it to the entire map that its them before Frenzy's deep wound can.
But what I really want to know is where the hell is the removal of losing part of your power guage on a successful M1? Where is the removal of losing your power guage on picking somebody up in Frenzy? Those were the 2 things I wanted the most and they weren't mentioned.
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Seeing as they compared their game to hockey, I don't hold out much hope that they'll realize why they're current MMR system is terrible.
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Brutal Strength is one of those perks where it is solid, it will get you value (outside of special cases like Nurse), but nothing it does is going to single handedly win you the game. It's effects aren't big enough or condensed enough for that. But it will save you a decent amount of time over the course of a game.
Another upside to it is that it can make other perks that want you to kick gens more viable. Packing Brutal if you're going to pair Eruption and Call of Brine together just makes sense. Or go with an interesting combo of Oppression and Trail of Torment... again Brutal Strength can make using those perks more valuable.
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Honestly, I'm hoping they don't ruin Legion for me like Hillbilly got ruined for a lot of other people. or like how Deathslinger got ruined. Legion definitely needs a tune up, but I'm really worried the bits of them that I really like will get axed in favor of them becoming more "viable". Or Behavior just completely missing the mark and making Legion even worse.
Edit: I'm also hoping they give Boons an overhaul. I know they won't because of the Dev Q&A... but I can hope.
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By any chance do you have the steam achievements for the Adept for any or all of the 3? That would prove you at least owned them.