ExcelSword
ExcelSword
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When I went to this challenge, I used the shack.
Throw down god pallet and reset it, make yourself useful in the area, then when the killer comes buy waste as much time as you can before dropping the godpallet. Because of how strong the shack pallet is most survivors will be willing to get stunned if it means making you throw that pallet down.
And don't get hung up on "wasting" the pallet. Most maps reworks have tons of safe pallets. I've seen too may survivors go down rather than use the bloody shack pallet that they get hooked instead.
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A few days ago, I was farming as Legion with the last two survivors after their teammates DC'd, and I idly remembered the tech when getting blinded at a pallet. So I decided to try the tech. It still works, laughs were had all around the end chat campfire.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
I play a fair bit of demo and I don't worry about it much. With his massive footsteps, I don't think the stealth aspect is ever a big part of his kit.
Yeah it isn't because the devs were clearly playing it too safe while designing him. But they clearly intended for people to use the portals to sneak up on people; why else would they create a whole new status effect for him?
It could be a strong part of his kit if they just tweaked him further.
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@indieeden7 said:
The thing about doing something like this is that it would widen the gap between solo and SWF, which the game really doesn't need at the moment.
It would to a 'slight' extent yes, but I think the positives of buffing a killer that is not played often and is not super strong outweighs that negative, and I say that as a solo player (rarely play SWF nowadays, talking with people drains me). Ghostface used to have a sound cue and among other things, was extremely weak in the PTB because of it.
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@Asssblasster625 said:
Can’t forget about the earthquakes he makes every step he takes
Demo has no ears and can't help it don't make fun of him.
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If some toxic survivors decide to stop playing because they can't bully anymore with old DS, then good riddance.
My survivor games will still have an obsession in them because I will still run it, I never tried to abuse it and will still get to punish people who are actual unhealthy tunnelers, who go for you as soon as you are off hook.
If I get fully healed and start working on gens, and then get chased 3 times then fine, I die. But I won't consider that being tunneled unfairly, as I got to start each chase at full health. Instead I recognise that I myself should have played better and been more careful, and my teammates who haven't been hooked yet should have tried to pull aggro and take more hook states.
I had a fair shot and lost, I'm not gonna accuse the killer of playing ######### if I never get to use DS, because the fact that I never used it means they were actually being sporting.
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This isn't unique to Victor.
Demogorgon, Pig and Blight all have powers that can do this too if you don't move out of their lunge trajectory. Dead Hard's invulnerability frames duration is shorter than these attacks, so when they run out you will still be in their hitbox and will be hit regardless.
The way to do it is to not dead hard directly away from the killer in a straight line. Use it at an angle so you are out of their trajectory and you should be good.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Smart. I like that this would incentivize people to wake up more since atm it just feels like way too much effort for little gain. Personally, I would make survivors able to wake up at ANY clock on the map, maybe slightly increase the time it takes to use one, but keep Freddy's ability to instantly pull survivors into sleep with a hit. Red Paint Brush also needs to have a look at too.
I had completely forgotten about Red Paint Brush, perhaps his addons should get another pass. he basically has no good addons anyway.
I wasn't sure about how to change the clocks, as most people don't use them since the maps can be huge. I had an idea where its still only one clock that spawns, but it is random where it located and it will periodically rotate to another dresser if you don't use it. If it was changed to be any clock, then I would rather they remove the white aura, and perhaps make them ring tick louder so survivors can search for them. The idea the devs behind the clocks is to act as a passive slowdown objective while still giving a boon to survivors, but right now the reward doesn't feel worth it if Freddy can put you to sleep instantly.
Making Freddy unable to put you to sleep instantly would mean you could wake yourself up with a clock and then trade with Borrowed Time, against a camping Freddy, which is a massive complaint from many people that despise Freddy.
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@glitchboi said:
I really like these ideas. I also think his teleportation ability can be nerfed to not be able to be cancelled during its use. One of his purple addons make it so you can't cancel his teleporting ability, so that should be enough for reference.
Hell, maybe it could work with a token-based system, where you have 3 tokens or something and teleporting to a generator consumes a token.
I think they could tie into this idea I have with the timer, increasing the overall cooldown of teleporting, but massively decrease it for each sleeping survivor. Currently the difference in cooldown for Teleport doesn't vary much, regardless of how many are asleep. This would give survivors another reason to wake up, while rewarding Freddy for putting multiple people to sleep. Meaning there is engagement from both sides.
Getting annoyed that Freddy instantly teleports to Pop your gen every hook?
WAKE UP.
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He was buffed. His largest counter was the fact that his gas doesn't affect survivor vaults, so throwing pallets early and camping the pallet was sort of an effective counter against him.
But since the antidote speeds the clown up, he can make some safe loops pretty unsafe when paired with his gas at the same time. He's very hard to play effectively, but he does reward you for learning him. It's just that the reward you get for Clown maybe isn't as high as some other chasing killers is all.
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@savevatznick said:
Survivors have also figured out what angles to wait at in order to neutralize most of the mindgames of shack. You want to keep them moving because if they wait correctly at a corner there is almost nothing you can do but bruteforce the pallet drop.
You can play with the window vault a bit by faking the vault, then going to meet where they run, or by vaulting then vaulting back (and even triple vaulting, even if it looks stupid). Just have to be careful that you don't play mindgames with yourself while they leave the tile completely.
It ends up being about doing half a mindgame and then committing, so that you get them to drop the pallet ASAP. Shack pallet down on a map where Shack is central or accessible is a won chase for me.
I feel that most of this could be fixed by re adjusting window vaults. Being able to stand still and wait is so frustrating. I remember they specifically changed how fast vaults worked because it was too easy to get them at some tiles, but now it feels easier than ever.
Heck as survivor I've been surprised at some of the fast vaults I get, like at the jungle gym with the window on the short wall.
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@Jarol said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/230362/tips-on-dealing-with-shack-in-2021
In the shack there is not much to do, you can jump the window and look to the opposite side, stay still for 2 seconds and wait for the survivor to come to you, but if he is smart he will go to the pallet or wait at the window. The only thing that would be effective is to use Bamboozle to block the window and force him to throw a pallet, another trick would be to go to one side, entering the shack, but at the same time returning and going the other side, then you can hide the red light or wait, but the most convenient thing is to remove that pallet as soon as possible.
Removing the pallet is the goal, most definitely. It used to be if you can bait them into vaulting the window they won't be able take another loop without dropping, since you will coming around the corner, but now it feels like you have no choice but to sink time into it as an M1.
It just feels gross correctly predicting what they are gonna do, but still not getting anything from it.
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I would like to see a change to his dream pallets, and build upon that idea of manipulating the tilesets. The reason nobody uses dream pallets is because they literally do nothing to awake survivors, and even then they don't help in loops with real pallets in them until they have been used up. Also, after you hook a survivor they instantly wake up so they will never fall for any fake pallets you placed near them.
Imagine if they expanded what you could change. Make windows disappear, or fake windows that make the survivor stumble if they try to jump through it (since they are trying to jump over basically thin air).
Make breakable walls appear that aren't actually there but the sleeping survivor has to treat as a real wall? Make real pallets disappear to sleeping survivors etc. so many things they could do to make it more thematic and interesting.
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
I'm honestly a little less inclined to play him. I played him a lot 2 years ago and took a break from dbd. I just got back and tried him and he felt super slow. This new rework doesn't seem like a way to properly address his issues and it actually causes more problems (such as new bottles also buffing survivors, new bottles can make old bottle gas disappear, and if the new bottles reduces his old bottle inventory). His new bottles have too many downsides for what they are imo. Clown was my main back in the day but I think these changes hinder him a lot more than help him. He gets some buffs more new weaknesses and neutral changes overall
You've been away from the game too long then because beyond speeding up survivor vaults a bit, they have only buffed Clown. In fact , they even made him faster since he no longer gets slowed while tossing a bottle.
You don't have to use his new bottles if you don't want to, they only give you additional options. I do wish they had a seperate ammo count for the antidote, but other than that I think they will make some interesting plays for Clown now.
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1927387#Comment_1927387
Option 2 is the scenario I do have a problem with. Because believe it or not, it IS strong to waste the killer's time doing this at the start of the match ( more like halfway into the match but this is arguing semantics).
Is it?
You're not getting away FOR FREE, you give the killer one hook state for free, you are literally ONE STEP CLOSER to death if you unhook yourself with Deliverance in front of the killer, and unless you do it during EGC when the doors are open (and hats off if you manage to pull this off since you have to be NEVER HOOKED until endgame) the only one who benefits from that is the killer, who just skipped your first hook in like what, 10 seconds?
P.S. If you're going to link a 7 hours long stream without giving a timestamp to check, noone in their right mind is going to watch it
Forgive me, It didn't survive the embedding into the post.
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1925999#Comment_1925999
Sounds to me like you have a problem with Deliverance itself more than with DS then
Imagine your generic scenario:
You are a survivor, you have BT, Deliverance and DS.
At the beginning of the match you make sure the killer doesn't find you first because you MUST use your Deliverance so you hide lika a rat until someone goes down.
David gets downed, finally (let's say 1 minute into the match, maybe 2) so you immediately start heading towards him because you must be sure you unhook him so you get your Deliverance
You unhook David, the killer finds you and you go down
You get hooked.
Now you have 2 choices:
- Wait until the killer gets far to unhook yourself (risking that someone else will rush the hook and save you)
- You unhook yourself right after the killer turns his back at you
Option 1:
Let's say you unhooked yourself without the help of other survivors (who were coming towards the hook anyway): GG, now what? The killer is far away so you either go out your way to harass him (making it very obvious you have DS) or you go being productive somewhere else (deactivating your DS)
Is this a problematic situation that needs to be solved? Why?
Option 2:
You unhook yourself, the killer turns around and downs you but A-HA!, you have DS, he can't pick you up for 60 seconds (which is EXACTLY the period of time you have a little "Broken" icon over your name BTW, so the killer could easily know when your DS is over), but let's say the killer picks you up, (who cares? It's the beginning of the match, better get rid of a DS now than later right?), you stun the killer, the killer downs you again after 30 seconds (?) and now you're in second stage, GG champ
But wait, you say you are good at looping so there is no way the killer can down you so quick after a DS? Ok, enjoy the rest of the match with only 2 perks I guess? Was it worth it?
Deliverance is a strong perk, no one can deny it, but that doesn't mean it needs a nerf, even because it's a situational perk by its own since unless you unhook someone before being hooked it's useless
I have a problem with self unhooking still triggering DS and allowing them to run to safety for free. Just this night on stream I bum rushed the basement with no thought whatsoever because I knew the killer couldn't do much to stop me from getting out of the basement after he hooks me.
You do NOT have to become an immersed Claudette to not get found first. Just play 10% safer than normal and don't blatantly stay on a gen before the killer comes to check your gen, then immediately get back on.
Option 1 is fine and I see no issues with self unhooking yourself with Deliverance doing this.
Option 2 is the scenario I do have a problem with. Because believe it or not, it IS strong to waste the killer's time doing this at the start of the match ( more like halfway into the match but this is arguing semantics).
EDIT: Time stamp at 6:38:00
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/905646613?t=06h38m01sI literally sprint behind this killer as they hook this streamer because IDGAF if they hook me after. Who cares if DS deactivates after getting back on a gen when I can use it to pull off dumb escapes like this?
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@Bartlaus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1926048#Comment_1926048
As u said u have to play safe... that means playing sneaky... wasting time... Well, at the start of a match u hide urself instead of doing a gen instantly. Otherwise the killer could find and hunt u. Then u have to get an safe unhook, even if the hooked guy is on the other side of the map next to another teammate and u hav to leave ur gen. So uve got activated Deliverance - congratulations. Now there two possibilities:
1. The killer hooks u before the last gen is activated. So u unhook urself. ---> perk slot and time wasted, cuz another guy could have saved u
2. You reached it to the EGC without getting hooked, what rareley happens to average survivors -----> Perk slot and time also wasted. Why? Maybe u could have escaped without getting hooked. Even if u get hooked there are still 1-3 teammates who can save u with BT.
Back to the situation u described. All in all u are complaining about not being able to tunnel a guy down, who unhooked himself :)
And no, Im not a survivor main, just being experienced at both roles. I never thought, that Deliverance + BT + DS could be a problem.
I'm not sure how you got the idea that I'm complaining about not being able to tunnel someone who unhooked themselves 5 seconds after they got hooked, because nobody is getting tunneled in that situation, just a survivor being able to get away for free.
You don't have to be hiding in a locker, just don't be stupid and play a little safe at the beginning and just immediately rush the hook when they catch someone.
Unhooking yourself means another survivor doesn't need to stop working on a gen and rescue you; you even mentioned this yourself.
@Bwsted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1926089#Comment_1926089
Proposed DS will prevent survivors from PROGRESSING the game AFTER they get off the hook and retain DS. The devs told us so much. In none of your scenarios the survivors are progressing the game after getting off the hook.
I'm pretty sure unhooking a survivor counts as progressing the game to me, so why should self unhooks be treated differently?
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1926068#Comment_1926068
And if you are unlucky to get hooked first it does nothing.
That it's strong doesn't mean it's broken. You have to jump through atleast some hoops so you deserve a somewhat powerfull effect
I don't even see how the DS changes affect this. You could do this right now right?
Deliverance is the most reliable (but not the only) way to self unhook.
DS triggers currently on self unhooks.
Proposed nerfs to DS will stop survivors from doing risky plays because of DS.
Self unhooking is a risky play currently protected by DS.
Ergo, DS should not trigger on self unhooks.
That is the basis of what I am discussing about Deliverance and their interaction as a whole. And no, Deliverance is not hard to trigger at all, especially if you run BT and just play a bit safe at the start.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
That seems to be an extremly specific situation to be in that needs 2-3 perks.
You need BT to ensure you get the safe unhook cause if the killer decides to just slap down the unhooked one you are screwed or you need to get an safe unhook earlier in the game
You need to not have been hooked once before the exit gates are open so your team needs to be on a whole better then the killer seeing how you will never take aggro
and nothing is stopping the killer to just smack you down so you need to be close enough to be able to crawl out before 60 seconds have passed.
After jumping through all these hoops they deserve their escape tbh
Yet another person who focused on the fact I mentioned "exit gates". Deliverance is not super hard to trigger, I've been playing the last few hours as survivor running Kindred, BT, DS and Deliverance. All super strong perks that have helped me stop the pressure the killer is putting out.
This combo is NOT hard to trigger, if I get to use it at end game its a bonus, not the objective.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1926026#Comment_1926026
A lot of people have crap luck and always get found first when they run Deliverance. I know that's what happens to me every time.
Anyway, if they pick themselves up, then at least they're using their Unbreakable. If they don't have Unbreakable, then you're creating pressure. As a survivor I sometimes like being slugged over being hooked. Sometimes. If I end up spending almost 4 minutes on the ground, then I'd prefer to have been hooked. As killer I'll slug to slow the match down, because it often slows down gen repair more than hooking does.
None of that is really the point, though. The problem here isn't the scenarios we're talking about. What it really comes down to is survivors being able to stack 2nd chance perks. It's not specifically about Deliverance and DS, it's also about Unbreakable and Soul Guard and BT. They can bring 4 get-out-of-jail-free cards into a match, and it's ridiculous, especially when multiple survivors do it.
Survivors being able to stack 2nd chance perks sucks, it does. It's also a larger problem than just Deliverance and DS.
I agree the real issue is stacking second chance perks. Deliverance is supposed to be a risky choice, but stack it with BT and it's super easy to trigger. Or stack it with DS and you can do literally just get off for free. Or stack it with Unbreakable so you can do a bad trade for free.
Or stack ALL of them at once to make killers tear their hair out.
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@Bartlaus said:
Why should deliverance be changed? It is still a very weak perk. Play 100 matches in a row with Deliverance and DS and tell me how often u escaped thanks to this... Im sure you'll be disappointed
It ain't a weak perk at all. As long as you play safe at the beginning of the game, you can reliably trigger it as long as you aren't stupid. But if you wanna be stupid just throw BT on and only Leatherface can really stop you from getting Deliverance activated.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1925999#Comment_1925999
"If the killer is good he will down me, but unless he wants to slug me for 60 seconds (75% of a gen mind you0 he can't hook me again without eating a stun. I've just reduced the killer's pressure back to square one in the most brainless way possible."
But... slugging doesn't reduce the killer's pressure back to square one. Slugging is one of the best ways to create pressure. It takes the killer time to carry a survivor to the hook and put the survivor on it; it takes hardly any time for a survivor to pull someone off the hook, and then survivors get BT and DS. For survivors, picking up a slug can take more time. And while that survivor is slugged, it's one fewer person on a gen, and that's always good.
One of the reasons some of us probably latched onto the EGC part is because that's the time when slugging a survivor can be useless.
I could also just jump in a locker and force the stun if I wanted. Being slugged is much more preferable to being hooked, and I could also just use unbreakable to create another no win scenario. People seem to believe that it is hard to recreate what I just explained here, when it really isn't. Don't get found first, and don't get downed before you can unhook somebody, unless its a trade.
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@Lycidas said:
This is the same reasoning that some survivor follow when they say "Trapper is OP when he traps both exit gates and I'm the last survivor alive"
It's a highly situational scenario and it comes out of multiple assumptions:
- All the gens have been done
- Exit gates are open
- Survivor 2 has never been hooked in the match
- Survivor 2 has 3 specific perks (2 of which are only single-use btw)
- The killer just leaves survivor 1 go after the first BT hit giving a safe hook rescue to survivor 2
- The killer was hooking the survivors VERY close to the open exit gates
- The killer picks up survivor 2 right after downing them
Saying that something is OP because you get full value out of it in certain specific situations is wrong, and yes, rarity IS a reason to leave something alone, especially if when it happens it happens because someone used a build dedicated ONLY to that purpose without the certainty that it would work.
Otherwise I can spin your argument and say "Oh but the same thing could happen with NOED, Bitter Murmur and Blood Warden", should this combo be nerfed only because it works in specific cases? Absolutely not
Dude, all you need to be able to do this is not be the first person found...then you can commence with Operation: Dickhead.
I knew I should have left the clause about the exit gates out because I knew people would latch onto that only, and dismiss this whole scenario. This can happen at ANY point in the game, only in the endgame does it hurt the most but that is not the issue here.
If I was to start a game right now as survivor, all I need to do is not be immediately found on a gen, then go bumrush the hook when I notice somebody gets downed. As long as I don't get downed before I make it to the hook, I'm golden. BT will pretty much guarantee that I get a safe unhook to proc Deliverance as long as the hooked survivor holds W. If I'm lucky I even get to lead the killer on a chase before they finally down me, but unless they have a one shot, who cares if I get hooked when I can just instantly unhook myself anyway?
After killer hooks me I can immediately unhook myself without caring if the killer is nearby. If the killer is good he will down me, but unless he wants to slug me for 60 seconds (75% of a gen mind you0 he can't hook me again without eating a stun. I've just reduced the killer's pressure back to square one in the most brainless way possible. Who cares if I don't use this at Endgame, when doing this in the early game hurts the killers pressure so much?
...Sorry for ranting, just sick and tired of people seeing "Endgame" and dismissing all else. Even if this isn't OP (I agree it isn't) it still isn't a healthy way to play, as it it is brainless on the survivor's side and feels rediculous on the killer's side.
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@Crowman said:
Pretty sure the image they shared both started being unhooked or unhooking yourself. So it should still proc on deliverance.
DId they? I guess I should go check the stream again to check this out. I could have sworn they only changed how it can deactivate.
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This is a good distinction to make. I know that when I play SWF, if I rescue my buddy off the hook while I'm injured, he heals me because he is not in danger of getting rehooked if the killer comes back straight away, so healing me helps prevent me taking his place instead.
But I acknowledge that that would be annoying as heck for killers who are trying not to tunnel if the unhooker is fully healed again.
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Go to cosmetics and select hook charms, its what I do when I play killers like Demo, Oni, etc. Hooks don't tend to scream while waiting for a match, after all
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My build on Pyramid head uses BBQ and Infectious Fright. If Infectious triggers on a down it is almost always a good idea to cage in lieu of slugging to keep the pressure going. However if it doesn't trigger, then I am more inclined to hook someone to find people and so that the others have to run to unhook them.
I also like bloodpoints as well, that might be the real reason I insist on hooking people at least once.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1850332#Comment_1850332
Thank you.
Honestly, my persistence with sticking with Clown is that I simply don’t have the patience for endless looping, and long chases.
Getting to the point of knowing exactly how survivors will run most loops means that Clown can quickly kill almost all of their chase options, or get survivors wasting pallets at amusing rate. That might make you wonder why I never picked Nurse up. I just like that Clown doesn’t need to be attacking/approaching in a linear fashion. I can remove all the survivors options, and reduce their mobility without compromising any of Clown’s base mobility.
It never sat right with me that people would easily call say Clown is the worst killer, while in the same breath so that Freddy is too easy to play and overpowered. Clown's gas is so much better than Freddy's snares, as you can aim ahead of survivor's routing to stop "hold W" gamers, and with addons are more reliable and available. Freddy's snares can be countered by abandoning the loop since he has to set them up or just waking yourself up.
The only reason Freddy is better than Clown is because of his teleport, and not many survivors bother to wake up or abandon loops against him. Clown is more deadly in a chase than Freddy and I hope his rework solidifies that identity.
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@TAG said:
I demand an actual Jaws chapter where the shark is a killer swimming through land. The TR/chase music would be legendary.
I demand for my childhood to be re-imagined in Dead by Daylight:
https://youtu.be/Yvbwl9c1vB0 -
@Waldbeere said:
Why should I take this addon instead of 1 extra hatchet? It gives the same effect, but I can also carry more hatchets.
I think the problem with the Iridecent Hatchets is mainly the missing condition for a one shot. For example: It would be much better, if the one shot would only be possible, if the target is out if the terror radius. This would make long range throws more rewarding. It will also makes a M&A build more interesting or tinkerer would be very cool in such a build.
It's just an idea, but I think addon should offer an alternative playstyle.
My immediate thought was of Insidious and now we need to go back to the drawing board.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1844994#Comment_1844994
Well............I'm too lazy to edit the tier list so let's just assume he's a being from an alternative dimension, technically not an animal
This is a interesting thought now. how would aliens from other planets be classified? would we have to create whole new taxonomical groups per planet, or come up with completely new terms?
Demo isn't the only one of his kind, its basically just a predator from the Upside Down. you even see baby demogorgons and eggs in the later seasons, so it would definitely be considered an animal under science. I am aware I have put too much thought into this, in a thread about what killers are best for boning.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1844484#Comment_1844484
I don't know the stranger things lore, so I just guess it's legal
The Demogorgon is basically an animal. I mean I'm not one to kink-shame, but bestiality is too much for me, personally.
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I am a bit nervous to ask why you haven't ranked Demogorgon as "illegal" as well...
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1842684#Comment_1842684
I think the intention was for Lucky Break to prevent blood orbs, and Haemorrhage to produce more blood orbs, but then the devs went “but what if all 4 survivors run Lucky Break or No Mither, then Oni won’t have a power”.
Because, yeah, that’s gonna happen, lol, and oh, because Oni totally doesn’t get instant blood orbs on hit and downs. Yeah, that doesn’t happen.
Actually, Oni doesn't get any blood orbs from downing survivors, only from injuring them. You hit a survivor with BT you will get nothing, you down a survivor who is exposed I'm pretty sure you get nothing (will have to check this one).
Edit: I can confirm after a quick game with haunted grounds on Oni, that he in fact does NOT get any blood if the survivor goes from the healthy to downed state.
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@SeannyD115 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1842058#Comment_1842058
The problem with it is what do you do when the person with ds starts working on a gen in front of you and jumps in a locker when you try to chase them off the gen.
If you are playing Freddy you have a reliable timer to know exactly when their DS runs out. If they are asleep and you haven't hit them off hook they are fair game. After all, can't be tunnelling if you never get DS'ed right?
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@Terro said:
There's CJ tech but that requires a downed survivor and a flash light.
There's also another one I've seen a YouTuber do months ago but it only works against really awful killers. I'm not totally sure how it works or I might be misremembering it, since I only saw them do it a bunch but they didn't explain what it was (they were testing/bullying a nooby killer). You pallet stun the killer and then slide back to the killer. If the nooby killer spams swing/holds it down during the stun (dunno which) due to inexperience or rashness, then the survivor can kinda step into the killer and not get hit (no clue how it works). Then the survivor just slides back over the pallet before the killer recovers from hitting it, since they're body blocked.
Oh wait that's just dumb tech.
yeah that doesn't sound like a "tech", more just that some dumb killers exist I guess.
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I play the Twins, and I'm having fun. Yes they have weaknesses, if you try to play without camping and slugging. But its a killer that can be in two places at once, of course they are gonna be strong at defending survivor objectives, same as Hag. At least with twins you can counter their camping strats much more effectively than Hag, Trapper or Leatherface.
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I'm okay with Demo roaring on a hit since you can see when people are injured anyway, but his other sounds should be drastically reduced. Survivors constantly know that he is occupied and can fix generators in peace.
Unfortunately I remember a dev stating that the point for the audio cues on Demo is to make sure solo survivors know when he is teleporting, the reasoning being that SWF will tell their friends when he leaves to teleport through a portal, so solos shouldn't be singled out... I acknowledge that the devs' hearts are in the right place, but that reasoning leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
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Were you injured? Iron Will and Off the record don't reduce your regular breathing sounds, they only mute you while injured. In fact, Iron Will has actually been bugged for years; it isn't supposed to make you completely silent, only remove your injured cries.
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How would snapping out of it cause you to go down? You mean while you were getting chased and tried to vault or throw a pallet, the prompt had precedence over the action? Perhaps you mean the random scream prevented you from doing any actions, or you were unable to mend your deep wounds due to Snapping out have priority?
If it is any one of those, that's just the way madness 3 works. The only one that is kinda annoying is the deep wounds interaction, which I believe is unintended.
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What if you triggered their deep wounds on all of them before downing one? If they were all in deep wounds then you would be able to combo at least two survivors down before another gets picked up, and then you could pick one surivivor up to end the loop.
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@xenofon13 said:
Yeah, tell survivors how to play their game and i'll tell you how to play yours at the end game chat.
And yes, denying her power for 30 seconds is a smart idea. Especially on swf groups.
I play both sides, and I'm saying this after having a survivor hold onto victor for over 2 minutes while I defended my side of the map. I didn't feel pressured about having "no power" since I could recall it back whenever I wanted. And believe it or not it still possible to chase people normally, and if I do notice somebody is extremely good at looping then sticking victor on them means they wont be doing gens if they choose to keep him.
I'm literally saying this is a bad tactic that will make you lose if you keep doing it. Doesn't matter if they are good at looping if they aren't gonna be chased or do gens. Basically letting the killer have a 3v1 which is totally doable for a good killer.
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If the survivor is trying to make a hatch escape then you pretty much already won as a killer. If you removed the hatch, what would you expect solo survivors to do? Maybe their team gave up early or the killer just dominated one weak link and snowballed. Is it really a solo's fault that they can't control their teammates actions?
The one thing they should change about hatch, is how keys work. The only time hatch frustrates me is when multiple survivors are searching for a key and you have no way to stop it as a killer. I would make it so that keys take time to unlock the hatch, at the least 5 seconds, at the most as long as a door. This stops the BS moments where you are about to catch someone but they got lucky and randomly stumble on the hatch, while you are powerless to stop them.
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I don't get bothered by most teabagging while playing killer during the match, though it does mean I probably won't be sporting and more willing to slug/ kill them off quicker.
What makes me scoff is when people only teabag when they are completely safe, like at the exit gates. If you didn't have the guts to do that during the match when I could make the match unfun for you still, then it makes you look like spineless. It's even more embarrassing if they got carried by their teammates.
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@DaKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1723464#Comment_1723464
It's 1 wall. Who cares, honestly. Even in the middle of a chase that's pretty trivial. It's literally the same as someone throwing a pallet and then you kicking it. The only problem is that the groaning storehouse one is still a straight god window that can be run 3x times with no mindgames and then chained into other loops nearby. Breaking the wall itself is hardly an issue.
Even on dead dawg I smack out the two walls next to the god windows, that are still god windows, and know to avoid chases in that building if I can.
On midwich while I patrol gens waiting for discordance to proc I just kick out any walls I see. It's nothing to me, and gives me something to do before I find my first chase.
On springwood I leave the school walls up, which makes the school a deathtrap once the pallets inside are gone, and kick out the walls to the strong buildings instead. I think springwood is the deepest basement in DBD if you leave the walls up. That's a meaningful choice. I only kick out school walls if I can't make it to a hook.
Ironworks has a terrible breakable wall that means you would have to all the way to the second storey to get rid of it before starting a patrol, sure it takes 2 seconds to break, but the walk up and down doesn't. We should be trying to steer away from adding mindless windows to the game, the whole reason nobody liked them was because there is barely any input from either side with these windows.
I do not like the Badham walls, because it actually isn't a meaningful choice. There is no choice to be made when the best thing to do is never touch them. At that point why even have the breakable wall in the first place?. I also feel it is super unfair for survivors when they get hooked down there or try to do a gen, as there is nearly no easy way to escape when you go downstairs, killer can always cut you off by backtracking upstairs.
The walls on Midwich are actually nice because they have pros and cons to breaking them to consider, and the killer is never immediately hampered for breaking most of them, They always have a positive effect, while having some negatives by giving survivors shortcuts as well. This is how I think the other walls should be, actual reasons to leave them up or break them down.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1723251#Comment_1723251
I don’t think they need to entirely redesign how the walls function but there are specific walls that probably could use a review. Like a poster above said, I think the walls in the corners of Midwich that open up new paths between floors is an example of a good use of these walls. And likewise in Midwich I don’t mind walls which are part of a safe loop that the killer can break in advance to make it unsafe. Another wall I like is the breakable wall in the killer shack type building in Dead Dawg Saloon that’s next to one of its entrances. Leave it up and the shack remains a pretty strong tile, not unbeatable but a good spot to run to for survivor. Break that wall and it makes that loop short enough that the killer gets a nice advantage in comparison.
It’s really mainly two types of walls that don’t make sense that should probably be reconsidered
- Walls that breaking them actually makes the tile worse for the killer. To be fair, in most cases breaking a wall and having an additional path actually helps the killer since the more open an area is he easier it is to catch a survivor. But some walls can make a tile better for the survivor like the walls in the school in Badham. Why even have the breakable wall if the killer would better off leaving it alone?
- Walls that MUST be broken or the area is an infinite loop. It’s one thing if a loop takes longer for a killer to catch a survivor if a wall stays up, at least then breaking the wall is a choice. Leave it up to save time now but maybe spend time later. It’s another thing though if the loop is literally an infinite loop or a loop that is guaranteed three full circles before a vault is blocked like the infinite loop in MacMillain. That sort of thing is basically just telling the killer they MUST spend time breaking this wall or they’ll pay dearly for it. Walls should be optional, not mandatory to win.
So in a nutshell, breakable walls should feel like they are something which you don’t have to break them to win, but if you do spend time breaking them you are getting some benefit from the time spent (beyond just the 100 bloodpoints each). I do think a lot of walls fit this category, but there are some that maybe should be tweaked.
I feel that the killer shack wall swings it a bit too much in the killers favour, but yeah I do like walls like that one. About saving time, I would prefer if most walls were designed so that breaking them was ALWAYS a time saver. I don't think its healthy to have walls that you will never break simply because the time to do so isn't worth it; I feel that you as a killer should always be able to say "I'll break this now to save time" rather than "I'll leave this alone for now to save time".
However if it specifically for looping tiles, than I think it is fine that they are a slight time waster if you decide to break them. I would rather though that the loops are not designed to make you feel forced to break the wall i.e. the long short wall loops at the saloon; this goes back to feeling as if you have little decision making in the process as the tile is simply too good without breaking the wall.
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@DaKnight said:
A breakable wall next to a god window is just like a safe pallet, but you can get rid of it early. Are people really complaining about having to kick ~1 wall~ on the Macmillan maps?
Yes, because killer time is too valuable to waste time heading to a loop solely to get rid of an infinite. These problematic windows were removed for a reason, they were too strong and an easy way to waste a killers time. Bringing them back with the excuse that you can get rid of it is not a good thing. Instead of giving the killer strategic choice about breaking it, there is no choice at all: You aren't giving yourself an advantage by removing the wall, but simply removing a disadvantage that was forced on you.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
When Badham rework first came out and I saw that both ends had a breakable I questioned why the Killer would ever break them. I asked my Fiance and he said "they wouldn't". So we agreed. And most other players seem to agree as well.
When what you implement could just be replaced with a solid wall then there may be a design issue there.
Exactly, it just feels wasted. The only time I've broken it is when I had no hooks left nearby except the basement, but that meant I already won pretty much. If it is effectively a solid wall, what even is the point?
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You can actually escape this one if you wiggle around with enough persistence, so it isn't as bad as before. Still shouldn't exist at all though.
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You don't have to watch a livestream while you are at work, this game is popular enough that you could tune in to some international streamer while you are home.
A tip I can give to get the code is to look up who is a fog whisperer, and visit a streamer with less than 100 viewers. The codes are valid for 10 people, and these smaller streamers usually don't have many rotating viewers, so if you are patient you can get a code pretty simply, especially since they are being given out like candy.
I found a channel with 60 viewers at the time, and waited around 5 minutes for them to hand out a second code. Stuck around because I felt it would be a bit rude to just leave heh, but my point is you can get a code quick if you are willing to not visit someone like Tru3Talent or Otzdarva, they have thousands of viewers so of course it will be difficult to be first in line with them.