Endstille
Endstille
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I think it should be the default standard for killer perks. Not op!
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@MouseBoii said:
I feel like the counter arguments for "It's not a healthy killer" are just boiled down to "Oh you think it's unfun, how subjective, that's an invalid argument."
While that's a valid thing to say to someone, it's a serious strawman when we talk about killers who've received the nerf hammer.
All the killers who have received drastic nerfs in recent times (legion, add on nurse) received those nerfs because there was a lack of *counterplay* options on the survivor end. Once you had the secret sauce, all you had to do was put a minimal amount of effort and gain success. Old legion was never too strong, but there was just nothing you could do. Stab stab stab. 50, 60s chase and you were guaranteed to go down. A 50-60s chase is pretty good as a survivor btw, that's 3 gens to ~75%. Same with nurse with 5 blinks or omega blink. The same has always been true with spirit as well.
Let me say it again for the people in the back; Killers don't get nerfed because of "fun" levels, they get nerfed if there's no *counterplay options* that survivors can utilize. (Anyone who says spirit can be countered, go message scott jund and play versus his spirit.)
Freddy will not be getting nerfed anytime soon, nor will billy/huntress or any other balanced killer. What I think we'll be seeing is a big nerf to spirit and a couple of survivor perks and survivor sided maps. Adrenaline and balanced landing being the biggest offenders.
You literally have 0 clue what you do talk about, old legion was very strong with the right addons and was seen alot at red ranks. They on one hand fixed the possible exploiting of game mechanics with him while nerfing him to a point that made him utter garbage which is a reason why you barely see anyone playing him at red ranks.
Old nurse (talking about basekit) was completely fine and had probably the best balance for both killer and survivor with mindgames across the entire map and not just around a specific tile or obstacle.
I have a very easy solution for scott's need to see skilled counterplay, he should join the next tournament hosted by marth, he than only has to 4k all the time. EZ PZ right? I mean there have been lots of spirits as killer so he can deliver proof that all those killers were garbage and that there literally is no counterplay. Since he is unable to watch those videos, he can rather participate and dominate everyone.
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Honest answer, no survivor that plays/played killer/survivor at high ranks will have hard feelings about it since they understand that when you play against decent survivors your gens gonna pop fast whether you bring ruin or not.
The only people that have a problem with it and are salty about it are the ones that waste their time with everything else but doing the objective.
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@hiC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821179#Comment_821179
If you want to reduce the Legitimate Case Against Spirit thread down to me saying 'she's not fun', I don't really have a response for you. I tried to respectfully and thoughtfully explain that there isn't reliable counter play compared to other killers. There was no video evidence of reliable counters posted to that thread. I'd be happy to see that and reconsider.
Don't take it too hard it is just mocking by now from me. The thing is that there are so many threads on this forum with the same subject which bring the same arguments over and over again and they have to be repeated over and over. Just like you said, it hasn't been posted in this thread, true but there are several others.
Maybe @Rizzo90 or another mod, could merge all these threads regarding nerf so it is one huge thread which might make more sense so the forum is not filled with this subject and people can read all the arguments evidence etc...
And now just for you @hiC there you go.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/503061323?collection=wLSpgsc_1RUV3g this should be PC and lots of spirit as killer in those games. Hope that helps.
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What they do not understand, they cave to a group of individuals who are bad thus it isn't fun. Those baddies will struggle against everything that isn't legion with 115% with no power at all.
So in the end they will make killers skins just as survivors are. Than it is balanced, such fun, 0 variety and no skill required whatsoever.
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@hiC said:
This comment is in every single thread right now. We all know that fun is subjective. Nobody is suggesting to balance the game around fun. It’s a useless comment that needs to go away.
If the game is balanced, it will be fun. If the game can be more balanced, it will be more fun for more people. Fun is a result of balancing the game, not a metric to balance around.
Because you and other people made this statement when talking about spirit. People like @Scottjund said it is not whether spirit is op or not it is just not fun to play against. People posted counterplay several times (as video evidence) and the people who want changes dont give a damn.
BHVR nerfs, go figure.
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Idc..
All a bunch of crybabies, probably freddy than huntress/hag whatever.
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Well i hope for your sake and all other ps4 players that you don't for a long time because I think that + rework that completely screwed musclememory is the result why people do not pick her anymore. For me the killer is non existent now like so many others and my waiting times increase.
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There is counterplay, watch recent dbd tournament hosted by marth, lots of spirit killers and survivor who play against them.
Predicting someone is a skill. Unfortunately people here cry because they are unable to do anything. To me it isn't related to skill to memorize a map and run the safest route and just watch when the killer gets close so you drop a pallet.
Sorry when to you 50/50's are coinflips, maybe checkout 2017 twt losers finals and grand finals. In losers a guy that dominated the scene for i think 3 straight years was decimated, forced 50/50s and being read like a book. Same happened in grand finals to his team mate. But yes it had nothing to do with skill, it was just coin flips who surprisingly landed on that guys side almost everytime and made the entire audience lose their f* minds.
You should also watch the recent dbd tournament hosted by marth, counterplay does exist and it is skill based.
You all just go the ez pz route because anything more to the game then running the same maps, same ways is considered unfun, thus eliminate everything that brings any kind of variety, not even being bothered to lie in the process.
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Yeah i can totally see it-crowd chapter.
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@GrootDude said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/703/3RSPM4SDRK3V.jpeg
She isn’t dead. Not even on console.
Yeah you don't have that awesome server test going on do you?
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@survivormain1105 said:
This game is def balanced on both sides ish. I play both. But started with survivor.
But what I mean is that this game is killer power role. Like its suppose to. But with the small percentage of hardcore only playing his game survivors. Aka(God tier)
So the idea that this game is balanced around the small percentage of players instead of the causal parts. Aka most of everybody else. Its horrible every killer is viable in the game regardless of ranks based on all the perks and addons they have. And then they control the game fully they decide what happens. Everyone just stop complaining about the killers are so underpowered they are perfectly fine. You just suck and need to practice instead of begging for buffs and survivor nerfs. Just buffing killers and nerfing survivors based on the small percentage of the player base.
I have played today against 4 "low tier" killers where they got the 4k. Trapper,wraith, clown and camping leaving chases Billy. They all got 4ks at the end.
The average survivor doesnt play like the ones you see on streams or videos. They play at the end of a work day or just to relax to play a game to unwind. Not the toxic teabagging looping forever just to BM the killers.
Ok go ahead community and input your opinion.
Yeah nope.
Nobody says low tier killers can not get a 4k, however even with the top killers you will have a hard time against survivors who play optimal and just use what has been given to them. It favors survivors if you want it or not.
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No I don't want killer nerfs. I think nurse basekit was fine (addons needed rework) spirit is also fine. I want the game to be balanced around 4man swf. No idea why devs seem to think it is okay to ignore it. I doubt any killer has fun in any of those matches and that is a result why a good amount dcs. But obviously that doesn't matter and can be ignored because reasons.
Now obviously another killer will be changed, cant wait for that. Handholding for people who are bad. gg
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@Plu said:
Only spirit because her power needs to be more interactive and with actual counterplay instead of coin flips.
Or you could learn the actual counterplay, for starters watch the recent dbd tournaments where alot of spirits were killer and yet they didnt 4k. So strange since there is no counterplay and all.
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I am just gonna wait to see who they butcher after that probably freddy.
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@TheKingOfAll said:
Why do people always think the devs are attempting to screw them over? Aren’t the devs just there to balance the game and make sure everyone has fun?
Cause I feel like the very same people that frustrated me when playing with randoms ask for changes because they are unable to get good. Even when presented with facts, counterplay or whatever. They say it isn't fun. So go play something else.
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@Peanits said:
To say that nobody asked for changes is objectively untrue. It doesn't take much searching to find a whole trove of videos, threads, and comments about The Spirit. I think you're missing the point of the argument, it's very rarely about how powerful she is, it's about not being fun to play against. You cannot tell someone that they're having fun when they're not, that's not up to you to decide.
If you want to argue that a video game shouldn't be fun to play, I'm not sure what to say at that point.
Don't you realize by now that this will go on forever and people will keep doing what they do now? We have people on the forum who do have fun playing against the spirit, many said it. Are you disregarding those people? Sorry the impression people get right now is, claim something, doesn't even have to be about balance so just say it isn't fun, find enough people that back you up on that ######### and bhvr will cave in.
Just because bad survivors say noed is not fun and is bad, hex ruin is bad or etc doesn't mean that you should totally change that because they are unable to deal with situations that arise. Sorry if that is how you will continue to develop the game you will end at nothing. Because fun is subjective and people will always find something that isn't fun for them.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/816364#Comment_816364
No, they aren't. There's plenty of us killer players that are as eager for broken killers to be nerfed as survivors are. I want a cast I can play without feeling like cheap scum.
What platform are you on? What rank?
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What bug? That is a feature.
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@Auron471 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/816419#Comment_816419
wait hold up. You can steer with billy using Q and E????
Yes also fyi you can change the sensitivity of q/e by changing killer controller sensitivity which is default at 50% i think so you chuck it up to lets say 100% and you will see a big diffrence.
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That is just gold
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@Lost_in_the_Fog said:
So for the last several days almost every time I play Freddy I have had survivors DC either as soon as they see who the killer is or immediately after being downed the first time. Is this seriously how the survivor community reacts to a killer being reworked? Oh this killer is more powerful now so I'm not even going to attempt to put up a fight.
I follow the "survivor rules" and don't tunnel or camp to give people a chance. Freddy is so much fun to play not to mention one of my favorite horror icons. Now it's such a gamble if I'll even get to play a decent match with him. I hope the devs are paying attention to this stuff.
The problem is that the "punishment" is a joke, it might happen someday somewhere to someone but reality is as soon as some entitled people feel like "this is not fun / i don't bully that person / wait somebody else is having fun aside from me?" they dc, many streamers are fine with it. They preach about yeah i don't encourage but i understand <3
All just a bunch of entitled snowflakes, in any other game the people playin, the people makin the game would say f* em. When suddenly 1week cooldown would be at stake for not playing, they might actually try to deal with stuff but until that happens and the devs cave into every outcry when it is not about balance and just i am not having fun and the reason for that will always be replaced. You saw it with nurse, balanced around some 0.1% top nurse mains, now step right up spirit pls, while I do agree that to some degree they have flaws and needed work on their addons what behaviour did was handhold people that suck at the game and cry about noed, when in reality noed is such a bad perk that it is not even worth to waste the time on cleansing a dull totem, when killer has it, fine do cleanse it after activation otherwise do objectives.
As long as bhvr is okay with "$§!* that i dc" and cry on forums cause no fun, no counterplay and they do not bother to punish these people nothing is being balanced. You can end trials so fast in this game that the killer skill is almost completely irrelevant.
Seems like i lost the bet with my friends, i wondered what people gonna cry about after spirit, i had billy in mind but seems like it will be freddy afterwards. Maybe at some point we balance the game but not as long as this is tolerated.
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Survivors, i barely play anything but with my set group. 4 people and when you play optimal you just wreck all killers (sure not all and props to those who actually somehow managed to win) that is such a rare occurance.
So yeah as omega blink/5 blink nurse etc was possible so is this. BHVR needs to step up and balance survivor like they balanced nurse for the cases such as these.
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@Cyro said:
I just find it funny that everyone will preach that Spirit is fair and balanced and that there are reliable counters to play against her. Yet none of them have posted ANY evidence backing up this opinion, there was Groot posting about what Marth said about her but that was it. Every single streamer I've seen (bar Tru) have voiced their concerns about the Spirit and have brought up a good argument with conclusive evidence to back up their claim.
All you people are really saying is ''go for windows, fake things!'' This. Is. Not. Counterplay.
You can't tell what on earth she is going to do, is it REALLY too much to ask for the Spirit to get some sort of telltale sign attached to her so you can at least tell when she's phasing? And before you say ''but duh glass lights up!!'' this has already been proven false by a lot of youtubers so don't make this argument again.
If you find Spirit fun to fight against, good for you, but from a balance standpoint she simply isn't fair to fight. Yes, she might be FUN to fight for certain players, but she isn't FAIR to fight. And yes killers shouldn't be fair to fight blah blah, but every single killer has some form of counterplay.
Why is Spirit the only exception to this rule?
Yes evidence was posted, maybe you should watch the entire tournament where several spirits were killer and none of them 4ked. Consistent counterplay as requested was posted.
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Can you explain to me why killers have to be difficult to play? I mean as survivor you take 3 friends, play optimal stick to the objective and you will have the easiest of games the entire time.
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So explain to me why that is dumb logic, should be entertaining, coming from someone who advocates nerfs on bbq because he thinks the perk is op.
Someone who sincerely proposed to "distortion" to have unlimited charges not even knowing about OoO. Entertain me again about NOED and how it punishes genrushing.
The only sad thing is that you have 0 clue on how this game looks when you play 4 man swf with decently skilled survivors and why it is so infuriating that people like you beg for nerfs on killers that actually enrich the skillcap of survivors to more than looping. While they make outright lies about killers not having counterplay while there are tournaments showing that there is.
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I have an even more unpopular opinion, killer skill is irrelevant, there are only good survivors and bad ones.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815884#Comment_815884
Statistics don't back that up. Average is 3K.
Show those statistics please. Iirc the latest i have seen to that show almost 50% across all ranks from 10-1 it gets above 50% and from 10-20 below 50%.
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@VexTheHex said:
So people in this thread advocate and cheer on nerfs to Survivors, but their whole demeanor is "if you nerf Spirit, why not just remove all Killers" when a nerf to Killers is brought up.
Hypocritical.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815850#Comment_815850
Oh boy, how did I ever main Hag back 2 years ago in Red Ranks before Survivors got a year or two of nerfs while Killers got buffs followed by buffs.
I must of been a god at this game. :I
The problem is that you assume red ranks have anything to do with being good at the game which they don't as potatoes can still be seen in all ranks.
All those nerfs and still we escape more matches than we die in. ?
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@Aeliten said:
Ghost face is to good and shouldsee a nerf. Any new player can just buy him and destroy more exprience players on any map, no matter how good perks and skills you have to outsmart killers it will not work becouse his to op.
You should've said it is not fun to play against gf, not about the killer being op or not.
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I just think survivor needs something new, something related to skill that goes beyond going to a gen and doing skillchecks or running the usual routes. There needs to be more to it.
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I don't like the killer (because of the cringe).
Going against it? Yes it is okay and I have fun, best is to beat those spirits that think they can not lose with prayer beads and mori.
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€dit:
Oh snap @GrootDude beat me to it :(
I just edited the video out so we do not clutter the thread with it. A video is fine posted once.
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@Jaguar3500 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815349#Comment_815349
I believe he said he would show in a video, but stated the most important result first. Scott is a killer main and a well respected player. Do you believe he would lie about something so controversial? It’s possible, yes, but extremely unlikely. I would like to see the published results but as of right now, I have no reason to believe he would lie.
So you honestly tell people they ignore cold hard facts when you haven't seen them yourself.
And it comes down to hearsay and believing someone else. Am I the only person having a problem with that?
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@Jaguar3500 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815412#Comment_815412
I like playing against Billy because he’s pretty balanced and its fun for both sides.
Billy is so horrible vs competent survivors who play optimal.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815192#Comment_815192
Exactly. There is nothing to adapt here. She didn't get any other play options, only limitations.
All you can do to adapt is not play her and find someone else more fun to play.
/s
No, you can make people scream right now and blink back to where you came from.
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@Jaguar3500 said:
Look up Scott Jund’s poll of you want evidence, I believe it was 86% of players who voted deemed her unfun to play against.
Care to explain how to see the results? All I see is a text written by him, why not make the results public?
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It is not even fun playing against her now that is probably the reason why I rarely see her at all anymore.
After spirit we should look at billy;bubba those instadowns as basepower are way too strong. Also there should be more cooldown to it, i think bhvr have somebody who likes to slap cds around so do your thing there too.
A cd for hag would be nice as well so she just can not seal off an area of the map. Huntress hatchets need real work, iri needs to go and the hit registration should also be looked at drasticly. Right now facing a huntress is facing a broken killer that can hit you across the map whether you are behind cover or not, the hitboxes are just garbage, completely unfun and negating skill of the survivor.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/813992#Comment_813992
They are not ignoring it
DC's are being tracked and when a survivor hits a limit the player is banned for it
It is pretty close to it, rage quits have little to no consequence and that shouldn't be a thing.
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@Tangero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/808615#Comment_808615
All im hearing is a crybaby
Guess sarcasm is not for everyone
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/812235#Comment_812235
You are very thoughtful lol. I have Moris saved up for anyone I recognise on the forums but these people with different usernames mess my system up!
So far i found one person ingame, disconnected.
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@Rinthespooki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/811901#Comment_811901
What you wrote or what would you wrote?
(Eitherway its by far the best idea and it dosen't gut spirit legion style!)
I wrote to amplify the sound of her footsteps in the answer of her survey so people are able to hear that easier.
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Just for BP and nothing else a free 150k is ok.
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@Rinthespooki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/811890#Comment_811890
My idea is just to increase the volume of footsteps from spirit. (They are already directional but very faint)
Thatway both sides must be good at tracking to prevail.
Literally what I wrote too.
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/811672#Comment_811672
If the chases are supposed to be actual guesses, then why does she have collision with survivors? That's not a guess, the game tells you if you found someone. How can survivors avoid bumping into something they can't see?
The main problem is that the spirit has lots of feedback on what survivors are doing and can react accordingly but survivors have no clue on what she is doing and are making random guesses most of the time and to me, that isn't really enjoyable.
Honestly,
removing collision will bite more people in the ass than they think. Right now you can actually bodyblock spirit which helps whenever there is a narrow passage, removing that will not result in a nerf to spirit at all.
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Are you familiar with the term "level of suffering" (btw i am not sure if it is actually the correct term since it is translated from my native language)? It is basicly explaining if people do not use the appropriate counter measures to a problem they simply are not suffering enough due to the problem.
This comes from my line of work, logic would dictate when you suffer from something you actually will try to resolve it with everything possible. So people not even bothering to use perks to deal with their annoyance, well you figure it out.
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@suli033 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/810030#Comment_810030
"fun" is what the casual or average player looks for it dosent matter what you individually look for in the game as a singular entity, it is about what the majority want not the minority and if that's a spirit nurf then it's because it was decided by a larger group of people because at the end of the day the game is a business.
So i assume you have hard proof for that don't you? Pls show it.
Also even if the majority find it unfun, truth is most players are bad at the game. Do you think it makes sense to listen to the majority of people when they are bad and only about 4% of players managed to get into red ranks?
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@Rizzo said:
You can't expect someone to get banned for dcing in a Custom Game and for sure we can't ban for something that happened 3 years ago.
Who says we are underestimating it?
We punish people for it, we punish people who suggest and encourage it on our platforms, a new system can be implemented on the dedicated servers in the future, so I don't think anyone is underestimating anything.
To me the whole threshold system is outdated, dc, doesn't matter why should result in a cd for x hours and that should be increased with each dc and no reset for it, you don't have to perma ban people for that.
It will put a stop to dcing especially since even when those special people use a diffrent account the next dc of them isn't far away.
Is there any news on when the servers testing will be complete?
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The whole argumentation about fun is utter bs, it is made from people who are entitled who want that their opinion of what is fun has to be right and everbody has to accept it.
Having fun in losing is something very odd, take any games that has mechanical skill build into it and it will require people to do reads on the opponent, no giveaways to safely tell is he going to do x? X has to be predicted in order to do anything against it. Many games have this, it is common in the fgc,dota and so on. Diffrence is people literally tell you to get good and stop to whine, here people delude themselves into thinking that to dc is fine cause that thing is no fun. The very same people who want to be taking seriously in balance discussion tell you it is okay to break the rules when you seem fit. In other games you would receive maybe one warning and after that it is bye for x amount of time.
Please do not tell me anything about you cant do that it is such a small community, yeah look up tekken player numbers for example "1/10" of what dbd has and yet people that dc alot will be marked and ignored in further games.
A majority of the people, actually we do not know if it is a majority of the people, there are no numbers on that and it could very well be a vocal minority. If not so provide me foolproof data for it. Furthermore the majority of players in dbd just sucks. Don't tell me it is not like that. Yes it actually is, look at all the posts made in this forum regarding why people die the most it is not because killer op, it is because teammates suck. Why play SWF, cause teammates suck.
I myself am no exception to it, I play 4man swf all the time and why? Because I can not stand the sheer stupidity of some randoms. When you do this enough you will have a very easy time. So what will I do? Will i play with my swf, toolboxes + prove thyself and meta perks where I know people are at least equally skilled as me if not even better and have an easy game or will i go with randoms who might be boosted and give me many frustrating moments? We make people disconnect on a daily basis, not yellow rank killers but red ranked people.
By the very same logic used on spirit, this would dictate that survivors need to be nerfed heavily. Will we see that? Nope.
Why is fun actually a stupid argument when it comes to balance?
We can all agree that fun is something very subjective. The game has several flaws, one side thinks it is not okay to equip perks in order to counter something yet that actually is what the other side has to do and it is fine. Somebody in another thread explained there was a tournament, while nurse still being strong on a map like the game, killers such as billy ( who is considered one of the three and being very well balanced) managed 1 kill each map. These were not bad killers but good killers, with tunneling and all that crap, they were able to get 1kill.
@Peanits told me he likes to reflect on what he could've done better after a match. There are however games where he thinks that he couldn't have done anything better and still loses. When those games do exist, balance should be changed so they do not occur in such a way at all(correct me if i am wrong but that is how i remember part of your answer in ask the community from me).
Sounds to me the skill of the killer in those cases is irrelevant isn't that what was considered a valid complaint about spirit because she negates the survivors skill? Reality is, spirit doesn't do that she just demands diffrent skills. Do not take this the wrong way but I think you are able to train a monkey to memorize routes on maps in order to run them when being engaged. How come as survivor there is literally nothing to micro manage?
Fun being the deciding factor and why not giving into this argumentation is very important? People agree that when enough people do yell enough about something the developers will finally cave in and change that. That is very dangerous and far from creating balance. Well as I said earlier most players in dbd outright suck. That means that when the majority complains it is the people that suck at the game. Are you out of your freaking mind to consider balance changes based on people who are bad at the game?
I suggest people are annoyed by spirit because lots of killers tend to use this killer. Why do killers tend to pick spirit more than other killers?
Simply due to the fact that lots of people outright refuse to build around that killer, if they would, spirit would not be picked so much. Don't delude yourself that there is huge variety in red ranks, there is not. 70-80% of my games are vs spirits. Yet when properly equipped, we deal with it even when they bring moris. Yes yes I know, all have been ######### killers cause somewhere there is some godplayer that will always 4k ( sure i believe that, not [check the tournament reference]).
Another point is that as killer, you have to manage time, you simply can not waste several minutes to down a single survivor. Apply pressure, you can do that when people are idiotic, however when they know where to run from safe loop to loop and play optimal, you will not have a fighting chance with any of the m1 killers against survivors who play optimal. Everything is fine somewhat but really isn't at all.
TL;DR ######### no, go to twitter or something.
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Just wow, I can't believe that there are people who advocate to ignore racism. The internet is not an unlawful space.
It is sad to read that, I received the same email for reporting death threats made against me and my family with actually people explaining that they visit the country I live in frequently and how they will hunt me down etc... i looked the player up a few months later, no game ban on the profile or anything so I guess the person didn't reach his threshold yet disappointing to say the least.