MouseBoii
MouseBoii
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@xRem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/102393/stop-the-fun-is-subjective-mantra
Who decides balance? Who decides what is unbalanced? You cant,if 2 things are different one will be better.
You cant balance for fun because everyone has a different definition as you said. But it's the same thing was "balance" or "fairness" who decides what is and isn't? If its numbers, do they take into account skill? Time played? Dcs? Sucides? Swfs?
You cant make anything balanced completely for the same reason you cant balance for fun.
The dev's decide what is balanced and unbalanced via statistics.
If the spirit averages 3.5 kills per game, it's time to balance this statistic out.
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I feel like the counter arguments for "It's not a healthy killer" are just boiled down to "Oh you think it's unfun, how subjective, that's an invalid argument."
While that's a valid thing to say to someone, it's a serious strawman when we talk about killers who've received the nerf hammer.
All the killers who have received drastic nerfs in recent times (legion, add on nurse) received those nerfs because there was a lack of *counterplay* options on the survivor end. Once you had the secret sauce, all you had to do was put a minimal amount of effort and gain success. Old legion was never too strong, but there was just nothing you could do. Stab stab stab. 50, 60s chase and you were guaranteed to go down. A 50-60s chase is pretty good as a survivor btw, that's 3 gens to ~75%. Same with nurse with 5 blinks or omega blink. The same has always been true with spirit as well.
Let me say it again for the people in the back; Killers don't get nerfed because of "fun" levels, they get nerfed if there's no *counterplay options* that survivors can utilize. (Anyone who says spirit can be countered, go message scott jund and play versus his spirit.)
Freddy will not be getting nerfed anytime soon, nor will billy/huntress or any other balanced killer. What I think we'll be seeing is a big nerf to spirit and a couple of survivor perks and survivor sided maps. Adrenaline and balanced landing being the biggest offenders.
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@SnakeSound222 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/820064#Comment_820064
I wonder if the people who are arguing against it also think Billy's saw is OP. Demo's Shred doesn't do anything aside from injure the Survivor.
I saw hexy looping a billy for like 90 seconds while complaining the whole time how broken billy was. He then proceeded to throw and let himself get sawed because of how angry he was at billy. Some people are very odd.
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Stealth doesn't exist in this game. All you need are whispers and eye balls to track people. And all the good killers will run whispers.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I wouldn't mind a small hindered effect with a successful shred. That seems relatively fair to me.
Which is exactly what I've been thinking. Adding some type of effect that is so small that won't really effect gameplay too much may inadvertently be a nerf in some sense of the word if it means more demo's will miss more hits that would normally be m1's. Why anyone would argue against it is so bizarre to me... Especially considering his power is not really something to be afraid of like a huntress hatchet or a billy saw.
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@DocOnLoose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/819390#Comment_819390
You keep mentioning powers that work differently.
Plague use her power to apply Broken effect permanently, also she is not incentive to use at your back, just a little of vomit at start of match at each survivor is enough. Plague suffers a lot cause of her power in points and emblems.
Huntress use hatchet cause successful hit allows almost immediate down, due to fast recovery and ability to throw/M1 survivor right away.
All others are one-shot.
Why do you equal Shred to those abilities? As I said in first post - Shred has a lot of benefits already, why you need to use it right at the back?
I do not argue for the sake of argue. I do not understand why you need incentive to use your Shred at the back of survivor in form of buff to ability? Mangled, Hindered, Exposed.
Want to have incentive? Ok. Successful Shred will increase Undetectable status on next Traverse by 2 seconds.
According to your logic, that's a buff to his ability, and thats a no-go.
If you cannot understand why I would like to see an incentive for players to land a back shred, then leave the thread, because you don't understand the fundamental premise of the argument that I've stated to you over 4 times now. It's getting boring saying the same thing over and over.
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@DocOnLoose said:
All mentioned powers are leading to one-shot ppl, Shred is not one-shot ability. If you already maxed out there is no reason to use it at survivor back, unless you run STBFL and guy is your obsession.
Pig using her Dash on your back is just doing it for points towards Deviousness. Clown using bottle at your back doing it for less distance and points in Deviousness.
I feel like you're just arguing for the sake of argument. None of what you're saying seems to be consistent with the argument that I propose.
Huntress and plague both have powers that damage survivors but do not 1 shot them, so that argument is invalid. Could the huntress just m1 you twice and that be the end of it? Yeaaa..... But she has incentive to use her power that is hard to use when they're right in front of her.
You quite literally are telling me something that my whole argument is predicated on; There is no reason to use a shred when someone is right in front of you. And that's true, that's what I stated in my original post. That's the problem that I outline. I really feel like you're not understanding what I'm saying.
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@DocOnLoose said:
You always use Killer power to some extend.
I'm Doc main, for example, I dont see any reason to back-shock survivor apart from few instances - when I run King and want to give them all 5 afflictions, when I run Obedience and want to make them Exhausted to avoid DH. I dont back-shock them to put in T3 before down, since I dont see much reason in it whatsoever (even if it will waste some of their time to Snap Out).
Billy will not back-rev you if you're injured, he will just M1 you, same for Huntress, unless they really want to use hatchets-only playstyle. Both Billy and Huntress power is used to gain advantage while beeing right behind - oneshot or less distance made by survivor after hit.
Shred gives you other advantages and easier to adjust on survivor moves.
But you can never down anyone with a shock. For any killer that has a power that damages survivors, there is a large amount of incentive to use that power when you're right behind them. (Huntress, billy, myers, ghost face, leatherface, plague.)
I'm not saying that shred is not viable.. It is.. I just see an opportunity to make the game more fun.
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The question is this: How do you get bodyblocked to get puked on and get 1 shot in the first place?
That being said, Idk, I usually just say GG and move on. Seems like they were new and didn't really know. You seem to have come off very hostile from the get go.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/819315#Comment_819315
Same way you outplay a Huntress with a hatchet 10 inches from you or Billy back revving you. Hope they’re bad and they miss.
When I play Demo, Huntress, or Billy I get very disoriented when survivors hug my character model when charging an attack and I lose LOS to them. I’m also a console pleb so it’s not gonna work on PC as opposed to console
While it's definitely in the killers favor, they're already behind you so they deserve to be rewarded for it, but the possibility of outplaying them and completely screwing them over is always a fun experience. Right now for demo, there's no incentive.
I don't know much about console, but if you match a good huntress vs a good survivor, making her miss is still very likely on pc.
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@DocOnLoose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/819312#Comment_819312
Cause you ask not for reason, but for buff. You have reason already - 800 points, it is pretty good reason. Also how do you outplay attack which moves at 460% speed 10 inch behind your ass?
You'd be surprised how many good survivors can outplay a back shred. I'm max deviousness about 30% into the game already. There's no good incentive past that. Even if I run STBFL I still get max deviousnous.
Honestly, this is a win-win. The changes I suggested are so small.
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@DocOnLoose said:
Shred allows you to get hit where other Killers cant, allows you get it from bigger distance, on windows vaults, on long wall loops, etc.
Shred gives you HUGE amount of points - 1100 per hit.
Shred gives you ability to mindgame survivors when you run behind, by hearing hissing survivors start to assume that you going to use Shred and start to wiggle losing distance much faster.
Shred allows you to break pallets right after drop and even from distance.
And you still not happy and have some demands? Really?
You want to add hinder to ability which already cuts you a lot of distance one way or another? Really?
I dont know how to avoid Shred which was used with proper timing.
Window vault in range - Shred is released as soon as Killer see start of vault animation - 100% hit
You make turn to the side, Killer adjusts direction cause he was waiting for animation to start and it didnt - 100% hit
Long walls - Killer just waits for you to make a evade move, then goes for Shred. Just same as Huntress with hatchets, she waits till you start wiggling and adjusts, but difference between hatchet and Shred is in AoE - Shred has much wider hitbox, which make it much harder to avoid.
Stop asking for fixes to something that is not broken.
Ya, if you read my post, I was only suggesting very minor changes to add an inventive to back-shred.
I think gameplay can be far more fun if the demogorgon has a reason to back-shred you, opening up the possibilities to outplay his shred. Why is that a bad thing?
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@DocOnLoose said:
Shred allows you to get hit where other Killers cant, allows you get it from bigger distance, on windows vaults, on long wall loops, etc.
Shred gives you HUGE amount of points - 1100 per hit.
Shred gives you ability to mindgame survivors when you run behind, by hearing hissing survivors start to assume that you going to use Shred and start to wiggle losing distance much faster.
Shred allows you to break pallets right after drop and even from distance.
And you still not happy and have some demands? Really?
You want to add hinder to ability which already cuts you a lot of distance one way or another? Really?
I dont know how to avoid Shred which was used with proper timing.
Window vault in range - Shred is released as soon as Killer see start of vault animation - 100% hit
You make turn to the side, Killer adjusts direction cause he was waiting for animation to start and it didnt - 100% hit
Long walls - Killer just waits for you to make a evade move, then goes for Shred. Just same as Huntress with hatchets, she waits till you start wiggling and adjusts, but difference between hatchet and Shred is in AoE - Shred has much wider hitbox, which make it much harder to avoid.
Stop asking for fixes to something that is not broken.
Ya, if you read my post, I was only suggesting very minor changes to add an inventive to back-shred.
I think gameplay can be far more fun if the demogorgon has a reason to back-shred you, opening up the possibilities to outplay his shred. Why is that a bad thing?
Sounds like a win-win to me.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/819287#Comment_819287
That's understandable. I can just count on one hand the amount of times I've been hit as a survivor with his lunge since release and it feels extremely easy for its included risk.
It definitely is risky. You can reset entire loops or let them get to a whole different much stronger loop if you miss.
However, his shred is seriously under-rated in the community. You honestly need to put in a couple hundred games to start to see the potential it has. (Just like huntress hatchets or billy curves, these skills take time to develop in the community.) And it's potential is very solid. I can easily shut down any jungle gym, long-short wall, killer shack, L-T walls, and miscellaneous long debris loops. (Oh, it def shuts down a couple of otherwise would be infinite's for m1 killers.) And if you're looping at something that a demogorgon can use his shred on, it's probably an unsafe pallet anyway. The only thing demogorgon can't do well on are the rock loops on macmillan maps.
I've seen good survivors try to adapt mid chase and I've seen some sick mindgames that I don't think many people even know exist yet. Love this killer!
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/819276#Comment_819276
It's a full charge of it, not a tap which is quite a bit. His lunge is also quite easily juked.
It only takes 1s to fully charge. It's true that his lunge can be juked, but when you play as much as I do, you realize that back shredding is as easy as hitting a back hatchet, probably more easy, when you become patient with it. (which I do, I love me those damn bloodpoints.)
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/819161#Comment_819161
Is this at rank 1?
Yes.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/965/14XPZKVNYNM8.jpg There was an error displaying this embed.I'd like to add that the idea of a 1 shot charge had entered my head, but I don't see a way it could be balanced even if you had to hold it for like 5s. Too tough, too dramatic of a change.
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@terumisan said:
The hitbox on shred should be bigger
Having put a decent amount of hours into him, I think the hitbox is perfect. I think there should be some counter-play to being able to dodge the shred, (which there definintely is) and at the same time, I'm landing hits that some people never thought anyone could hit.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/818822#Comment_818822
You're basing this on 3 games...
If we're being honest here I've played like a couple hundred games on demogorgon. I think a 1 shot is too much.
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I think demogorgon might be too strong if he was given a 1 shot, but im glad you agree generally!
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Just sounds like you got juked. If you lose the scratch marks, just look around the area and look diligently for blood and try to predict where the juke may have happened. Odds are they're just next to a rock.