Elan
Elan
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My issue is if someone midnlessly go for same survivor to the point where you are hooked 5x, is it truly an issue of the perk? Tunneling got some crazy buffs recently. Less protection duration, clear indicator when the duration ends, rework of BT, nerf of shoulder the burden… I don't think this is good direction. Tunneling should be possible but not easier and after this update if STB or BT remain changed I'm worried that there will be no tool to combat tunneling and killer queues will be insane which I already hate because waiting minutes for killer match is frustrating and more so if the lobby crash and you waited 8mins just to hit ready button again.
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@Arcturus said:
I was genuinely excited for this patch, I thought both sides would get some interesting perk updates that unlock new unique perk combos, and maybe this would give me a reason to start playing more survivor again since every patch lately I've been pushed to play more and more killer.
And we did, on the killer side. Genuinely think there are some great changes for killer perks, a lot of them have been made genuinely strong from a useless perk, some may have been more so cozy / nice-to-have perks that got buffed to be even nicer, and a few might even contest the meta. Honestly there's a few perks that I'm a bit worried about being over tuned, but I'd much rather that then a bunch of nothing burger perk changes. I look forward to experimenting with my killer builds more.
However, on the survivor side we got many nothing burger updates, along with a plethora of nerfs. Like, genuinely, it's kind of insane how little there is to encourage me to play survivor. Here is a list of all the perk changes and how I would categorize them:
Killer perks
Buff or Nerf
Agitation
Green/Blue buff, nothing changes.
Iron Grasp
Green/Blue buff, nothing changes.
Deerstalker
Small buff
Game Afoot
Small buff
Bitter Murmur
Buff
Fire Up
Buff
Spies from the Shadows
Buff
Unbound
Buff
Machine Learning
Buff
Dark Arrogance
Buff
Distressing
Buff
Superior Anatomy
Buff
Unrelenting
Buff
Dominance
Large Buff
Hex: Nothing But Misery
Large Buff
Knockout
Large buff
Scourge Hook: Monstrous Shrine
Large buff
Insidious
Massive buff (undetectable on command is insane)
Shattered Hope
Massive buff
Undone
Massive buff
Whispers
Massive buff
Help Wanted
MASSIVE buff
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt
Nerf / side-grade (could still be insane on stronger killers)
Dead Man's Switch
Small nerf
Dissolution
Nerf (works almost the same for m1 killers)
Hex: Blood Favour
Nerf (works almost the same for m1 killers)
This is what I wanted to see from the perk update. Many perks got sizable buffs, making a huge difference. There are a couple of nerfs for what I assume are the "problematic perks" they mentioned and I think that's good, but there are only a couple so killers are still eating very well. Let's look at survivor.
Killer perks
Buff or Nerf
Kindred
Green/Blue buff, nothing changes.
No One Left Behind
Green/Blue buff, nothing changes.
Resilience
Green/Blue buff, nothing changes.
We'll Make It
Green/Blue buff, nothing changes.
Slippery Meat
Completely different effect & use, not great though
Premonition
Small buff / side-grade
Friendly competition
Small buff / side-grade (did we really need a shorter duration)
Blood Pact
Small buff / QoL update
Pharmacy
Small buff / QoL update
Solidarity
Small buff / QoL update
Empathic Connection
Small buff
Do No Harm
Small buff
Wake Up!
Small buff
Object of Obsession
Small buff
Boon: Illumination
Buff
Calm Spirit
Buff
Dark Sense
Buff
Sole Survivor
Buff
Plunderer's Instinct
Buff
Road Life
Buff
Spine Chill
Buff
Better Than New
Large buff
Flow State
Large buff
Small Game
Large buff
This Is Not Happening
Large buff
Five Moves Ahead
Nerf
Windows of Opportunity
Large nerf (to a comfort perk)
Self Preservation
Massive nerf
Shoulder the Burden
MASSIVE nerf
Borrowed Time
MASSIVE nerf (genuinely don't know what this is used for)
Stake Out
MASSIVE nerf (literally trash)
Survivor perks got more nerfs and honestly much bigger nerfs. 2/3 of killer perk nerfs make it so the perk works almost exactly the same as before, just not on the strongest of killers. Survivors had several perks absolutely obliterated.
More than that though, the perk buffs are nothing burgers. Survivor's got double the Green/Blue buffs that honestly make it feel like they're there to make it seem like survivors got more than they did. Even the more sizable buffs mostly just make a terrible perk usable, there is almost nothing actually strong.
Illumination's new effect is cool, still not worth running. Plunderer's Instinct will buff chest builds slightly which is nice, but even though I love a good chest build they are a complete meme. Road Life is actually decent now but still is outclassed by bringing a good medkit. Spine Chill went from worthless to decent, although I would rather just run Finesse or Resilience. Better Than New went from being awful to maybe being useful queueing with someone using boons (until they may nerf boons too apparently). Small Game was terrible and now is decent because it gives you the functionality of a map with a purple addon, yippee!
I think they meant WoO and Stake Out to be side-grades, but I while I stopped using WoO a long time ago I would literally rather run Resilience or Finesse over WoO any day (same issue as Spine Chill because they're basically the same effect, very creative), and Stake Out can still be completely wasted on a heal, it's not even based on TR anymore so you have to be within a tiny 24m area for 15s for one stack, all for a 4% bonus that you could potentially still miss.
The only decent things survivors got, ironically, are Flow State and This Is Not Happening. I say ironically because, while Flow State's buff was a really nice change, This Is Not Happening just inflates the issue of Hyperfocus. They really should have just changed Hyperfocus, the actual problem, instead of Stake Out, because now this perk that is largely meant for new players can be combo'd with HF for an even more reliable genrush build on a decent player. The gen speeds in the PTB were insanity. And I 100% guarantee you there will be complaint after complaint about it and it will be removed before it goes live and we'll end up with only Flow State.
This update is giving me no reasons to keep playing survivor when the survivor experience has already been so miserable. I've already been playing way more killer than survivor, and I guess I'll keep doing that. Because we need killer queue times to be longer.
While I agree with lack of changes I think you overrate TINH + H combo. The thing strong about hyperfocus was that it was additive %. Meaning as long as you kept hitting great skill checks which I did and had at least one stack of SO you could get 3.8 % per 6+ token every time you hit great and to defend hyperfocus it's very high skill ceiling perk that rarely anyone ever can be used to it's max potential. Current hyperfocus will be 2.8 % so while hitting greats with TINH will be slightly easier if you can't hit fast skill checks on 5+ token the combo will barely give you meaningfull progress to waste two perkslots for this. So in the result Hyperfocus + SO was much better % wise than H + TINH and you can call me genrusher but if you can't hit greats on higher amount of tokens without TINH you won't be able with TINH either. So in the end you won't be able to do gens as quickly as you are now, which is nerf to gen speed and will be welcomed. And as killer main I never blamed anyone for running H+ SO as my solo q teams don't do gens half the match.
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@LucasMS said:
The nerf to Windows of Opportunity is a change made for no good reason. The perk was never overpowered; it is being changed simply because it is widely used. This change will primarily impact new players, and the way it was announced is misleading: even when combining it with Five Moves Ahead, you cannot achieve the original effect. Both perks have cooldowns that disable aura reading, and the reason people chose Windows over Five Moves Ahead was precisely the constant aura reading. Ideally, these changes should be reverted, as they only disadvantage beginner survivors and solo Q; Windows has always been a comfort perk rather than a game-changing one requiring such a massive nerf. If you are determined to keep these changes, you should at least modify both perks so that the aura-reading component doesn't go on cooldown alongside the faster vaulting and pallet-dropping effects; that way, the claim made in the patch notes—that the old effect is still achievable—would actually be true.
It's weird that they nerfed a lot of survivor meta perks - sprint, vigil, woo, 5ma, stake out,… but all killers meta that are in the game for years as well - pain res, corrupt, pop, eruption, lethal, bbq are not touched at all even when used the most for years. This is not meta shake up I was hoping for. While new perks are decent to very good, will you as killer trade slots for pain res, dms, corrupt, pop, eruption, nowhere to hide…? I don't think so.
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Strange that most common build I go for - Corrupt, Pain res, pop and eruption and other most used meta perks are completely untouched. Doesn't look like metashake up really. While buffs are good, the best perks remain best perks and are run because they are strong and help you defend gens for long enough to achieve victory. Most people won't swap those perks for passive regressions. The one thing in this patch that I'm worried about and will cause a lot of frustration is buff to basic attack cooldowns. Dark Arrogance with Save The Best For last allow you to two tap people and I don't know if I actually like this direction after buff to save the best for last. But perk after perk…
I will skip numeric changes to t1 and t2.
Bitter Murmur - cool change, not very popular perk over BBQ, Floods of Rage or Nurses Calling but might see some love now. Good.
Fire Up - decent changes, now gives you Forever Entwined, Double Brutal Strenght and Infinite Superior Anatomy in the endgame. Has potential.
Game afoot - paired with nemesis or friends till the end can find some use in hunting down obsessions easier. Decent change.
Spies From The Shadows - I'm glad they left the og effect. Small buff. Handy.
Unbound - has potential to make a lot of hits that you otherwise would miss by an inch. Cool.
Help Wanted - limited ruin on top of og effect now easier to trigger, cool! Good.
Machine Learning - small buff, needed. The perk was already strong now will be slightly better and might be reasonable to run. Good.
Dark Arrogance - not a fan of decreased basic cooldown, paired with STBFL it creates very little counterplay to be two tapped, and massive frustration against killers like Clown or Freddy who will get those first hits much easier. STBFL, celestial witness with Nothing but misery was already rising in the recent meta. We'll see. I think two tapping won't be received well and result in nerfs eventually. If I count well, you can now have 52 % faster cooldown = 1.3s cooldown with STBFL and dark arrogance.
Dead Man's Switch - good change, probably only perk that needed it to remove synergy with pain res, clock, eruption, surge, infections, yamori mask etc.
Disoclution + Blood favor - I feel that most opressive killers it was good on was Ghoul and Lich who will still utilize it the same. The dissolution Krasue is over, which in the end is a huge nerf for the killer who's not very popular.
Distressing - cool change.
Dominance - buffing totem defence is acutally wild. Might be better than Thrill ever was.
Nothing But Misery - good change. Decent.
Thrill - in full hex build on top tier killers will be even stronger than it used to on weaker killers will be useless. Weird change.
Insidious - decent change, might be longer but it's ok.
Knock Out - good change. If healthy, we'll see.
Ravenous - effect per each first hook would be better but it's still a buff.
Monstrous Shrine - will be either insane or useless depending on altruism of the survivors.
Rest of perks are good changes that I don't need to comment about - superior, undone, shattered hope.
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I will skip the perks where t1 and t2 was adjusted to be closer to t3 as I believe those changes have no impact on the perk usage for most people.
Better Than New - great buff, fair numeric change, goes on level of lend a hend time-wise. Good!
Empathic Connection - now is same number as botany but doesn't work on self heals, again decent if you run altruistic healing build.
Flow State - now has better output in the midgame and some decent endgame value. In good spot, still perks like do no harm, botany or empathic will outshine it in the most time as the healing is most appealing thing but faster totems and unhooks offer some supportive options! Good!
Friendly Competition - this perk remains meh, splitting on gens is way more efficient and 10 % repair speed for 90s isn't that crazy for pushing same objective together. You can run Steadfast, Deja Vu or whatever and have better results will less conditions. Still bad perk but not laughable at least.
Blood Pact - remains swf perk, you can now pair it with decisive strike to counter tunneling and regain it later in the match. Pretty much no change in most cases. Meh!
Boon: Illumination - faster relocating sounds crazy but in the end placing boon 8s faster for price of less perk slot and must have boon somewhere isn't that crazy. Now when shattered hope is buffed and basekit snuffing destruction is talked about, I'm worried that boons that are already very unpopular will be played the same as invocations. Very strange for weak effect the boon has.
Borrowed time - probably my least liked change. Unhook protection being 10s and nerfing shoulder the burden and on top of that reworking borrowed time that recently found reason to be used is very weird. I feel like instead of disentivizing tunneling we are incentivizing it now. With killers having minimoris, unhooked protection now cannot exceed 10s and babysitter is mostly only effective against lower mobility killers. Tunneling might be strongest it ever been. Very bad change. The effect of the perk is weird too. I can see you running off the record and after 30s using dead hard, but this will be so very rare scenario that borrowed time will settle in dust. Most killers can down you quicker than that and it requires 3 perks to achieve something inconsistent. Very bad!
Calm Spirit - yeah, dowside wasn't needed. It's still meh perk, whatever.
Dark Sense - weird short lasting woo, 5ma, hyperfocus combo that isn't worth over better information perks like kindred, wiretap… still meh perk.
Sole Survivor - do the most work to make people open gates faster. Sound crazy but truly isn't. If you are hooked once and repair 1 gen they gain 20 % faster opening speed = 16s? Is it worth? Not really, you won't achieve the potential the perk has most of the game. Opening hatch seems like ratting with this perk will be still good.
Do No Harm - yeah, whatever. Still better to run botany, lend a hend, we'll make it and other perks but at least you can now create some crazy great skill checks combo builds.
5mA - Yeah, whatever. The perk will be now top used perk instead of WOO, nothing else expected.
Pharmacy - with medkits being all same on self heal Pharmacy is doomed to never be good again. You can buff it to insane amounts but most players will save medkits to heal themselves in clutch situations. Bad perk still.
Plunders Instinct - now kind of allow you to not run keyes to zoom through chests which is fine but chests builds were never very popular and nothing much changed even with perks like moment of glory, apocalyptic inguenity, specialist etc. It's still buff, but you could do the same before so, it's ok.
Premonition - I love that they kept the antistealth part of the perk but the cooldown being doubled is very strange. I expected them to lower it to like 25s but in the end this perk is nerfed, which is weird. Please, make it at least 40s as it used to be. Perk mostly won't change much because you already see where killer is coming from so nerf to cooldown isn't needed.
Road Life - I initially thought that the perk is gonna be busted ah. But in the end without skillcheck build - either toolbox or 1-2-3-4 you will rely heavily on rng to get those 4 stacks and even when the heal is very quick I feel that built to last with medkit, strenght in shadows or simply letting others heal you will be more attractive. The perk is not joke anymore, but I wonder whether it's pickrate will change now. Sometimes I got no skillcheck per almost entire gen so letting someone hook me off hook would be more efficient if cought off guard.
Self preservations - strange nerf but whatever. It's anti BBQ and serves the point. Kinda strange to nerf antiaura perks when aura builds are getting more popular.
Shoulder The Burden - as I mentioned with BT, this change makes tunneling better, that's it. If killer desperately goes for same survivor when 3 other survivors you STB on him, is it truly a perk issue? I feel that this is overkill. The potential of the perk deserves nerf but that potential is achieved in 0.01 % of the games. You hardly see STB more than once per lobby and my teams don't run STB most of the time. The broken for 2mins is a massive downside making you a clear target for the killer. On top of that disabling it for every other survivor will make this perk very limited. I don't know, I feel that tunneling gor buffed heavily over last few weeks but if that's the way devs want to go, well so be it. Good luck being tunneled as solo survivor. There will be nothing to help you other than DS which is already not that crazy against modern dash-slop killers.
Slippery Meat - I saw this coming. Feel like all options of self unhooking will be shortly removed. Good luck when you are hooked along with other survivor, someone is chased and someone is hiding in locker or basement. While self unhooking isn't possible in most games soon you won't be able to unhook unless you are in 2v1 scenario. I don't know. Kobe dead, misery spread.
Solidarity - nothing crazy, medkits are mostly saved for self heals. It's buff in the end but with medkits nerfs back in the day, solidarity kinda lost it's chance to be meta. If you were able to heal someone 2x from ranger medkit base and now you have to run iri add on to achieve it, you won't have so kind teammates. It's fine, in some meme builds it's gonna be better.
Stake Out - while this seems like a buff in the end it's nerf. You gain tokens less frequently than before and can't pair it with other perks such as Road Life, hyperfocus, fogwise etc. Hyperfocus gives currently 30 % bonus, max 2.8 % bonus, with stake out 3.8 % bonus so if someone is good at hitting skillchecks they won't be able to keep getting the big chunks off gen anymore. hyperfocus will be max 2.8 % and stake out 4 % with BNP skillcheck so already less accessible to many players. Hyperfocus stake out meta dead, stake out with much healthier perks combos are also dead. Well, hope no one will ever complain about genrush anymore.
Spine Chill - decent perk, problem is that most games are high ping killers and increased vault speed won't have much impact on the hit denying.
This Is Not Happening - beginner friendly perk, most people either can or can't hit greatskill checks and those 30 % won't change much. it's still meh perk. Can be new hyperfocus brother as people will think that they hit those great easier but in the end it's not true as I used to experiment a lot with this perk and you can hit great without it about the same. But more begginer friendly perks are fine imo.
Wake Up - whatever it will never reach it's best era. Opening exit gates is one time interaction, already not very long. Can rarely be good against endgame build that you see once per 500 games. It's fine perk.
Windows Of Opportunity - good change, this will make perk more interactive while providing more space for mistakes while running into dead zones. Will make solo q significantly harder, which with buffed tunneling and nerfed gen perks will be rough. Well, good luck.
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I agree that reworking borrowed time and heavy nerfing stb right after decreasing antihook protection is kinda overkill. I didn't expect borrowed time to be reworked. Now apart from babysitter there is truly nothing to help tunneled survivor.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117399#Comment_4117399
I'm not sure where you're getting this from, but I recently realized a lot of people hate Scratched Mirror now. Because Stalker mode by default gives you 4.2 movement speed, and with an addon you move at 4.4 (as fast as a ranged killer or hag), it is infinitely easier and more viable than it was before. With old Scratched Mirror Myers, you were the same speed as survivors and could not increase your movement speed, the only thing you could do was run an addon so you could actually lunge at all. This change unfortunately transformed a cute, meme play style for jump scares and entertainment that I loved into a more "viable" option that people inevitably started using to more effectively camp and tunnel when team have no comms.
Even more than that, I'm not sure where you are getting the information that old Tombstone Piece Myers was beloved and should return. Tombstone Myers was the biggest complaint about Myers for years and was incredibly unfun to go against. Spending the entire game away from the killer and just sitting on a gen all to immediately get permanently removed from the match is not exactly interactive gameplay. There's a reason people hate the Condemned play style of Sadako.
To make it more clear, I wasn't talking about 4.4 Myers being fun and beloved but the og mirror Myers, which by the end you admitted is true. Tombstone Myers was the most played and I actually enjoyed the terror of this playstyle and many people did too. The complianed about part of Mikye's kit was the og double iri before the nerf. Where it took twice as long to fully stalk people for you to be able to stay forever in tier 3 and have permanent option to mori. That was complained about and i believe those were justified. At least those playstyles were mroe diverse than todays dash-slop myers with his pallet drop cancel mechanic.
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Community hates his stalker identity to be gone.
I would like to see those two modes which can be swapped:
- Stalking for auras (mirror basekit) you are undetectable and can see auras of survivors within 32m. Cannot progress evil incarnate. (Most loved and played Myers build n. 1)
- Stalking for power: Each survivor can be stalked to quickly fill your power. Once the power is filled you gain access to mori any healthy, injured or dying survivor. Automatically ends evil incarnate. (Most placed and loved Myers build n. 2)
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I mentioned many times…
Give survivor who is unhooked:
→ 10 % haste, elusive and invulnerability for 30s (meaning they can't be attacked, infected and can't bodyblock) this would solve two tapping by Bubba off hook or killers who can keep you close untill protection runs out, such as deathslinger, clown…
→ Deactivate it instantly when being fully healed, healing yourself, doing any cons. actions and fully in the endgame.
Give killer who performs fresh hook:
→ 5-15 % extra damage when manualy damaging gen (Nurse 5 %, Nemesis 10 %, Pig 15 %)
→ stackable 25 % extra BP per each first hook on survivors (old BBQ)
→ Reveal on every survivor with same or lower amount of hookstages (similiar to Judgments add on)
→ 5-15 % haste depending on mobility (5 % to killers with high mobility such as Jason, Hillbilly, Ghoul or Clown, Krasue, Onryo, Dredge, Freddy…), (10 % for killers with small or low mobility such as Wesker, Houndmaster…) and 15 % to killers with no mobility such as Pig, Ghost Face, Trapper…)
Boom! Both sides would be satisfied.
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@legi0n said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117363#Comment_4117363
feel free to add some more perks that you would like to see nerfed
Well. Irony. But there are some:
Decisive strike, unbreakable, we gonna live forever, background player, plot twist, built to last, conviction, overcome, lucky break and power struggle.
But to justify both sides I think that few killer perks need nerfs too:
Rancor and Forced Hesitation. But those two truly only because their unhealthy nature.
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Agree, hope hyperfocus, finesse, lithe, deja vu, botany, resilience, dramaturgy and ressurgence are getting nerfed too. Maybe we will enter era where both sides will have equal chance to win rather than survivors being in massive advantage. Lets see what killer perks will finally get better, looking forward to enjoy game more.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117256#Comment_4117256
WoO and FMA are on completely different survivors, one of which is new and full price (and likely will be for years). It's unrealistic to expect new players to grind to get not only Kate but also Tae-Young for these two perks. Not only that, while FMA does have the nice pallet drop effect, the aura reading goes on cooldown and so it doesn't quite fill the spot one perk used to hold.
I'm fine with FMA getting changed to pallets, I think that makes more sense and differentiates it a bit more from WoO. However, especially if that is already being changed, why is WoO being changed, especially to only show window vaults? Talk about a useless perk.
Tbf, defending WOO because of new players is not a good argument. I had many new players as friends and even when they had that perk they run away from pallets and died in few seconds without learning much from it. It's all a way to update tutorial to be more upgraded towards new dbd. I do agree that this perk is not overpowered (it's literally zanshin tactics for survivors). But it's main strenght isn't to pinpoint where the pallets are, at least not for me. It's main strenght and what makes this perk so frustrating to play against is the fact that survivors know exactly where chases happened and what areas have no resources anymore, preventing you from running into deadzones, rewarding killers for getting rid of the pallets. If you have survivor running into shack because they know there is still pallet up just because of this perk it's not very skilled gameplay. If survivor runs into shack and see the pallet is broken and die because of it it's nature of decreasing resources over time. My issue with pallets is that each map generates too many different variants making it nearly impossible to learn the layouts. If you have maps like Gideon, trickster's delusion or RPD where most pallets always spawn in the same place (not always anymore), it's much easier to memorize. But if you are on Badham there are so many spots where pallets can or don't spawn that learning those layouts isn't matter of hundreds hours. It's way more. If all maps are more static, it would be way easier for overall playerbase to learn the maps. The fact that you can spawn on Coal Tower and have 10 pallets around main building one game or 2 pallets around main building the other game is something that will always be too problematic. Saying that swf has afvantage is also not very true, most swfs are casual players who barely strategize or play competitively, they are mostly friends who want to play after work or at free time. The comp swf is closer to solo q where all 4 survivors are simply just very good players. I personally think that this nerf may be too hard, but time will show. No one says this perk can't be revisited in the future after nerf. Perks like save the best for last, nurses calling or adrenaline are example that none nerf is permanent. Let the time show. But from my point as killer main this game shouldn't be balanced around giving free informations. It's why I'm not huge fan of aura judgments either. It removes a lot of randomness from the game.
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NGL, portals on Forgotten Ruin, steam pipes on Nostromo or openable doors on Gideon make those maps quite unique and if more maps get those unique mechanics I wouldn't complain. Only map we got in last few years was Trickter's Delusion, which is one of my most hated maps on both sides.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117262#Comment_4117262
The problem was you could still be hit by shoulder even when not tunneling. You just need to understand that keeping 4 people in the match longer is worth the downsides that are possibly coming. 4 more perks in the trial, 1 more person to do a gen or waste time in chase with. Every nerf it got was super deserved.
And once again go against a STB user, that has exhaustion, current pallet density with even a mid range killer and try to take advantage of the exposed. Note this also screwed over killers who's M2 is their primary source of damage but even then some M2s on killers weren't physically strong enough compared to just M1'ing them.I'll be judgment here. Even as killer main I think people overrate shoulder the burden in 99.9 % cases. My issue is the absolute top tier usage where 4 survivors have it, play swf, extremely well and distribute hooks between themselves. While this is near impossible to go against it's also nearly impossible to deal with. There is only one situation where you should use the shoulder the burden and that is when someone has second hook stage and you have none. Either of they go second or if they are on hook for second time. This creates scenario where killer can choose to go for either unhooker or unhooked survivor in order to have a person with second hook stage. So the best case is that stb user has ds, go straight on second hook stage and can delay killer. Worse scenario is where they go for the unhooked survivor who isn't very good, has no antitunnel and die in next 20s anyway. Issue with STB isn't the casual game, if STB user is hooked first the perk is gone (theoretically). The issue is that in an absolute top level it can be abused to insane amount. Do I think new downsides are justified? No. But I do agree that this perk is too hard to balance to make it reasonably powerfull across all mmrs. 2 minutes of being broken is very big downsides and will make facing killers like Twins, Oni, Dredge or any slugging reliant build way harder to deal with. So I personally will forget this perk exists even when I used it a few times and will rather run perks like babysitter or borrowed time to support the teammate in different way.
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There are survivors who die to dredge at 5 gens which is from my pov impossible yet it happens. There are survivors beating good Nurses, which from by pov should be impossible. The outcome of match relies heavily on survivor effeciency. You don't have to be insane at looping as long as your team is doing gens.
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@upsideinsanity said:
They would completely destroy their playerbase since a large portion only play during 2v8 and a lot of people - including a lot of large streamers - don't want to play survivor with the changes they have implemented or with how miserable judgment is to play against.
I am very curious to see how low the player numbers are and how bad the killer times are after 2v8 ends. Halloween isnt going to kill this game, the decision the devs have been making will.
Pardon me but what changes are you talking about? 2v8 might be fun for some while it causes extremely long queues to the point that you can't play your favourite role. Judgment is noobstomper, I'm sorry. Her chase potential is hard to achieve and her snipes can be completely avoided. Survivors will be more balance with nerfs to vigi, sprint, windows, resilience and so on. It has to happen so the side winning deserves the victory. There are also huge if not insane buffs for survivors. Road life will allow you to heal at 100 % speed after you hit 4 great skill checks, no more medkit needed. Isn't that insane? Moment of glory allows you to heal mid chase against weaker killers where predropping = surviving. Apocalyptic inguenity allows to create infinite pallets. The fact that people can't play for the stuns is why it's not popular. If used by better survivors those perks are beyond unfair.
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@Skillfulstone said:
The change to WoO is just a bad idea overall. It also feels anti-newcomer.
The perk isn't the most used Survivor perk because it's overpowered, it's the most used Survivor perk because it makes the game slightly less miserable and utterly random for newcomers/casuals who don't know the pallet spawns by heart. It makes the game feel like a game and not a gamble for beginners/casuals.
Not everyone has the time or the patience to learn and remember the spawns on every maps, not with how many maps and variants there are, a number that will only grow over time.
Only showing the windows is basically useless outside of indoor maps since there's also very little randomness to most window spawns, they are usually static (shack, main buildings & larger tiles) which makes the perk a waste.
Furthermore, WoO made it so that people could learn the maps so that eventually they could play without it. It was beginner-friendly and, more importantly, it took a single perk slot, so that help still took 25% of your build. If the changes go through, Five Move Ahead will be needed alongside WoO to have the same effect… twice the grind and half the build for beginners to get a basic layout of their surroundings.
Furthermore, WoO gave SoloQ a weaker version of something that SWF have normally: The ability to know when key areas are no longer safe. A SWF can tell each other when key pallets are broken without having to go there while in chase (and likely giving a free hit/down since there's no more pallet). It helped close an information gap to a small degree (as a SWF have no distance limit to that knowledge while WoO is not map-wide) and now BHVR wants to get rid of it. Isn't closing the gap between SWF and SoloQ something that people want? A lot of QOL changes were made in the name of closing that gap, why go two steps back now?
I really don't understand the reasoning behind the change, there's literally no positive outcome from making WoO irrelevant. All it will achieve is making the game (as Survivor) much harder to learn and play for beginners & casuals, and the queue times speak for themselves on what people like to play more already.
WOO must go. It's handholding perk removing luck and skill and replacing it with "run to glowing aura". Now it will be much more fair if survivor is a good looper or they just run through every highlighted pallet. I hope Finess, Drama, Resilience and few other perks get nerfed too, but patch notes will show.
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Such a huge nerf to windows of opportunity (only windows visible) and shoulder the burden gives me hope that devs understand how powerhouse survivors become. Gladly they are reducing oppressivnes and give killers more room to achieve their victory.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117091#Comment_4117091
Yeah you'll need to fix your formatting that's not legible. Also why would your winrate matter for anything? You could have just been letting everyone die and get hatch to escape.
Sadly, I died to a lot of too altruistic endgame scenarios. Otherwise my escape rate would be significantly higher. Sorry for formatting. I just shared stats.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117060#Comment_4117060
I… I'm sorry but I don't know if you are serious or not. Is this like sarcasm or are you trying to be serious?
I'm very serious. Perks I mentioned are pinch of equippable problematic perks. I understand that survivors want to be powerfull but me who play both sides know how insanely powerfull survivors become. My escape rate says it clear. I never had so easy time winning as survivor. Manily to perks I mentioned.
1
Aurora Stardotter
32,1 hrs
54.55%
52.25%
2
Kwon Tae-young
5,7 hrs
9.34%
52.63%
3
Orela Rose
5,4 hrs
9.34%
68.42%
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@lovlor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117059#Comment_4117059
Go into a custom match on either the above maps you mentioned. You record a video how there are 25 pallets I will apologize to you IMMEDIATELY. And yeah, I guess that makes a lot of sense for you to say "a standard map has 25 pallets"
Just to claim, I'm not convincing anyone that those pallets are equally as strong, that would be silly. Some of them are litteraly those Z-wall type pallets but they are there. I defienetly am sure there are 25+ pallets. I won't do a video myself, but you can check it anytime you want. Don't forget the maps dont always spawn same amount.
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@n000b51 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116990#Comment_4116990
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117059#Comment_4117059
Did you really count them all between yesterday & today ? I've never counted so many on all these or I should count them again to see it by myself… Or we don't count in the same way…
Pick yourself zanshin and do it. :)
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@flinterwood said:
Asking this because every time i don't use this perk, survs pop a gen quickly at the beginning of the match, specially when they have box. sometimes in less than 60 sec. since most of the killers don't have fast travelling like jason or alien through the map, it becomes a free gen to them specially when they are SWF
Basekit thanatophobia and deadlock would feel great. They can also increase speed at which generator regresses (let's say 0.25/s to 0.4/s). Killers defienetly need basekit perks to help them defend gens.
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@esarraf said:
Wow, they are really scraping the bottom of the barrel for perks to complain about now that sprint burst and vigil both got nuked.
It's discussing problematic perks. Killer perks got nerfed and are in decent spot where they are good but not oppressive however there are many survivor perks that are peoblematic for years - lucky break, power struggle, finesse, lithe, shoulder the burden, reassurance, dead hard, dramaturgy, bottany knowledge and many others. Once one perk gets nerfed it's obvious the next perk will be picked. If Nurse got giga nerfed Blight would be main complain. It's nature of meta changes.
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@lovlor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116990#Comment_4116990
Name me a "standard" map other than meat plant that has 25 pallets please.
MacMillans, Coldwins Farms, Borgo, Trickster's Delusion, Crotus, Autoheaven, Eeriye, RPD…
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
Wow, I actually made a joke today that Resi will be the next perk that will be complained about now Vigil is dead…. and I was being sarcastic.
Deserved to be nerfed.
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Standard map has about 25 pallets. Should be 15 pallets imo to be balanced. Would also make killers like Bubba or Myers much better rather than predropping breaking simulator
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Resilience deserves nerf for very long time. Not only that it makes solo gen 3s quicker but also vault about 0.05s faster and small bursts to all other mechanics. It should either be 2 % across everything or 5 % to few of those effects.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116955#Comment_4116955
As of now Hillbilly is easily in the top 5 most powerful killers, usually placing around 3rd or 4th (although depending on your opinion apparently Judgment might move him down a place). A killer that strong should not be made any stronger. Although Billy has a couple maps he struggles a lot with, I think the partial base kit boots would help with that so that those maps aren't as terrible without the addons.
Otherwise, I made these addons partial base kit and made the total between base kit and the addons slightly less than before because if anything Billy needs nerfs. If you simply make his most powerful addons fully base kit it will make an extremely strong killer even stronger. These changes were more so aimed towards slightly nerfing his maximum potential while improving his average quality of life and opening up addon slots for other addons.
Without doubt might get bit better. Just make killers good. No reason to do 50 seperate safe buffs. As you mentioned most if not every billy runs iri eng/purple boots. So gameplay wise there would be no change from survivor pov.
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I like your ideas. But they are too safe. You can make those add ons basekit in full value and make the add ons more unique towards the power.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116931#Comment_4116931
I feel like the community generally thinks Wraith is a pretty balanced killer, wouldn't this be way too strong? Especially something like 20% uncloak speed, that's almost double of "Swift Hunt" - Blood.
Defienetly wouldn't. Would compete higher ranks but still be way weaker than killers such as Oni, First etc.
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@Mentally_Mechanical said:
This is something I've been thinking about, and I'm pretty sure it's been suggested before, but I'd still like to throw my hat in the ring.
Without wasting time, baking the Crawler mode vault speed from Self Destruct Bolt into Xeno's basekit would be massive for the killer, and work to justify why flame turrets exist and can knock it out of power, without making it too powerful.
The effect being made basekit would necessitate a rework to the addon, and I had an interesting idea. What if the addon increased the Runner mode's speed to 4.8? It fits the "urgency" theme it has, while giving Runner a niche not held by many others (I can only think of Waterlogged Shoe Hag and Krasue as having this gimmick.) Could be too strong, but it's worth the experimentation in my eyes.
Poor neglected Xeno. he indeed needs some buffs. 4.8 in crawler mode would be good start.
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I'd give him full basekit add ons and rework the add ons.
+ 10 % movespeed while cloacked
+ 50 % damage speed while cloacked
+ 20 % uncloack speed
+ 30 % cloak speed
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@lovlor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116727#Comment_4116727
First, there are a lot killers weaker than freddy.
Second, you cant name another killer that can just passively gain permanent upgrade over time and this design is very unhealthy
Third, mid tier is fine. We dont need to buff every killer to S tier to make there no mid tier
But a very few of them. He needs that to be able to use his power otherwise he's just m1 killer with no power. A tier is goal point. Jason/Twins level where killers are fairly good while providing enough space to counter them.
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Elusive mostly does nothing that is true. But you can pair it with other perks such as bite the bullet or extrasensory perception to make tunneling killers coming for you driven insane.
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I think they should revert the non-zelaous curve. 0.8 for being zelaus is reasonable but there is no reason to make gambling even worse to do when she's not empowered.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Honestly, not hyperbole, serious question. This invoking salt thing is such an absolute curveball of a timewasting mechanic. Idk who pitched that particular idea or why literally anyone else agreed and thought it would be a beneficial addition to 2v8. Compounding that by making one of the challenges to place 10 salts? Encouraging people to waste time rooting through chests to do this absolute grind of a challenge? Not a good shout.
Getting nearly infinite hope for doing 20s ritual is timewasting? Ok.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
They already tried 10 second cooldown and it was too strong, at most they could make it 11.5 but Power Drill would have to be nerfed or reworked. I agree with the Scamper change, it feels too situational currently.
@MrSmithsonian said:
I think Chucky needs a little bit of love still. He is still a strong killer, but definitely a shell of what he formerly was. I want him to be stronger, but not in a way that is annoying. I've come up with some changes I think could greatly benefit him:
THE GOOD GUY - BASEKIT
•Reduced Hidey-Ho mode cooldown to 10 seconds (was 12)
•Reduced the time to perform a scamper to 0.9 seconds (was 1)
•After breaking a pallet, Hidey-Ho mode receives a 2 second cooldown penalty (NEW)•Breaking a pallet while in Hidey-Ho mode will reduce the duration by 65% (NEW)
•After performing a Scamper, and for each consecutive Scamper, the Slice & Dice duration is increased by 10% (NEW)i think they can revert his 10m/s dash speed and he would be just fine.
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@lovlor said:
Nerf judgement
Revert SB OR Vigil
Revert off hook protection, no one wanted elusive
Nerf Celestial Witness OR Nemesis(perk)
So nerf killers and buff survivors when the exact opposite has to be done. Is there any reason why Judgment should be nerfed? No. She's high risk high reward just like Henry. Sprint and Vigil deserved nerfs. Unhook protections are something to help you, not to carry someone. Both celestial witness and nemesis are below mid perks and there are no reasons to nerf them at all.
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Nurse is in good spot now. She doesn't need nerfs neither buffs. her lunge add on was only thing that had to go to make her more precise.
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@Arcturus said:
Hey, this is a new series of posts I'm starting, going through all the killers in the game one by one (perhaps one each day?) and saying what changes I'd make to them. Feel free to let me know your thoughts or what changes you would give each killer:
For trapper, I think the first change I'd make is remove the limit of how many traps he an carry. This removes all the awkward gameplay where you want to pick up a trap but have to throw down some terrible trap somewhere in order to just pick it up.
In addition, I think Coffee Grounds, Trapper Gloves, and Makeshift Wrap should all become entirely base kit. These changes would aim to make his power more threatening and usable mid chase, while also removing the fact that his one ability can literally backfire on him.
A lot of people think Trapper Sack should be entirely base kit, but I think this makes reinforcing the basement with tons of traps much too easy. Honestly, his power defending basement kind of bottlenecks how much you can buff him, but without addressing that I think these changes would be good to mostly increase his threat in chase and reduce the amount of time he wastes / distance he loses setting up traps.
Agree. Trapper should be able to carry all his traps and coffee ground basekit would give him decent antiloop. Simple and effective changes.
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@lovlor said:
This sounds incredibly busted.
Freddy already puts survivors to sleep passively. He doesn't have to outplay anyone or even do anything particularly meaningful to earn it — survivors simply fall asleep over time. And now the idea is that, once they're asleep, Freddy should also permanently become stronger and unlock additional abilities just because more time has passed?
What exactly is the killer doing to earn those upgrades?
I can't think of another killer who is allowed to permanently scale their power throughout the match simply because a timer is ticking. The closest comparison would be old Myers with infinite Tier III add-on, and even that required him to actively stalk survivors and build up a significantly larger amount of Evil before he could reach it.
There is a huge difference between rewarding a killer for successfully using their power and simply saying, "If the survivors have been asleep long enough, Freddy gets stronger."
If survivors are supposed to constantly waste time waking themselves up just to prevent Freddy from receiving permanent upgrades that he didn't have to earn in the first place, that's not an interesting risk/reward mechanic. That's just passive slowdown attached to passive power creep.
Why should killers earn their power actively? freddy got major update and still is very weak compared to other killers. He might damage by snares and still be mid tier. He has quite diverse kit that is meh though
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why should they fix something that is not broken? Judgment is in decent spot where she requires skill to do well in chase even with the buffs those are gambling situations. And aura snipes completely depend on whether survivors bother dodging or just eat the hit. Most of my wins were to survivors ignoring gearhead and nurses calling which both can be countered easily.
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they are fine, popular and fun. Make Legion more than just m1 killer with no power after free injury. You can play around those add ons pretty easily.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116417#Comment_4116417
Unfortunately only a tiny percentage of players are in high MMR and the rest have to suffer. Is that healthy for the game?
even mid mmr should be easy against judgment.
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she’s gambling simulator like Henry. While her power design “has potential” to hit everything no matter what this is something that requires both sides to do a guess that results in a hit. Even best Henry player still relies on people running into his vine attacks. Sniping Judgment is only good against lower mmr even with aura perks. In high mmr there shouldn’t be high winrate on her unless survivors make insane mistakes such as double heals, doubling gens, ignoring aura perks, not paying attention to beam.
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Judgment didn’t need this buff but its fine. She’s community killer and “divine being” so she should be stronger than every other killer without being hated as a community killer. The issue isn’t that she’s too strong but that other killers are too weak. Survivors are still bit overturned but at least we have killer that is no joke and must be played well against. Exactly what survivors should be.
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If you get matched with people of your level every game then yes, it may be survivor sided in mid mmr too. But fact that many people bring newer players and those always magnet the killers attention they mostly end up being the reason you lost. One bad survivor and game over.
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Survivor escape rate highly depends on how selfish they play, if they play team or solo or if they risk their life for random players. I love running Duty Of Care but i never seen any random risk for their teammates and a lot of people do winstreaks on survivor while letting others die to escape through hatch if needed.
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The game is defienetly survivor sided if survivors are good. Even against higher tier killers. Main issue of asking if the game is balanced is the variety the game offers. If you run in full swf with 3 other survivors you know will be doing gens and are good at looping you will most like win way more than lose. If you are in solo q with survivors that don't do gens, last 5s in chase, you will most likely lose a lot of the games. Next issue is the uniqueness of each map. Each game on the same map spawns different pallets, different gens, different totems etc. and it all plays role in what side is favored more. You can end up on Game which is one of the hardest map for the killer as Pig but you face full swf who are not very good and just play to have fun with chill builds and you win, then you end up on Trickster's Delusion which is one of more killer-sided maps and you face full swf who play seriously, run all meta perks, go for bodyblocks, play safe around pallets etc.
For example…
You spawn on Badham with very bad pallet rng for the killer and you play Hag. Unless you pull out basement play you will 100 % lose against good players.
If you spawn on the exact same map with exact same rng as Ghoul, you have very high chance to win.
If you play against weaker team and you get quick two downs, pull of pain res, dms and grim… you will most likely win.
If you play against very good survivors and they pop 3 gens simulteanously because the spread on gens and you had bad first chase, unless you hard tunnel someone out or slug entire team, you will lose.
Of that speaking, low mmr is 100 % killer sided as survivors can't path properly, don't play effeciently etc. Mid mmr is more about rng, picked killer and level of survivor play. High mmr is without doubt heavily survivor-sided no matter who and what perks you play.