Elan
Elan
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@FoxGhoul said:
Love the downvotes, at least I still know this forum is as survivor sided as always.
The issue with Ghoul and Krasue is that they are very easy to play and don't require a lot of good play to achieve what a lot of killer have to hard fight for. Their valuts had no counterplay and resulted in free hit in most cases. Ghoul's revault was tweaked to be more precise somewhat back in the time. I don't think tha Ghoul who has guaranteed injury without any counter and can insta catch you into another free hit needs that good antiloop. Krasue is different topic. She has similiar catch up power but she ends in 50/50 scenarios a lot with her heavy elevated 3rd person. Personally as P100 Krasue I'd like to see her unique add ons to become basekit. Meaning you can spit on windows, pallets and gens to break and vault them faster.
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@jesterkind said:
Seeing people talk about the upcoming Self-Preservation nerf has me thinking, because people are pointing out that you can use it for a quick-ish unhook and have both players vanish without being trackable easily, which is a pretty interesting use case for a perk.
Now, I don't mind SP's nerf that much - I'd prefer it be 20 seconds instead of 15, but both variations are strong and useful perks + SP has been a little overtuned since the rework, which I say as someone who uses the perk a lot - but I do think that use case could be represented in a more dedicated perk slot.
Enter the perk Background Player, a consistently difficult to balance perk since its inception. Even right now, when it's at its least problematic, it causes some issues and can make pallet/flashlight saves a little bit unfair. So, why not return it to a variation on its original PTB intention? Consider the following for the perk:
- When you unhook a survivor, gain the Elusive status effect for X seconds.
With X here just being how long the unhook protection Elusive is, since I personally think it should be longer than it is and I just want to convey that Background Player would match it.
This version of the perk has that useful stealthy-unhook perk without the all-encompassing value that current Self-Preservation gives, and since it takes up a perk slot it wouldn't be an unfair effect to have. If the killer does have to return to the hook because they didn't have any other information… well, bad luck, sometimes things don't work out. If you don't return to the hook habitually because you have better information to work with consistently, then your opponents have a dead perk slot.
It fits the theme and name of the perk, it's a lot healthier than the current effect, and it's definitely something that'll consistently come in handy in the current state of the game. I'd see this as an overall win for the game as a whole.
Champion of Light, Background Player, Power Struggle, Finesse and many more unhealthy perks will hopefully be touched too. I agree that Background player is very oppressive and should receive complete rework, but elusive isn't it. Make it oppossite of OG version. When you unhook survivor, they gain 150 % haste for 3s. They can choose whether to get away or heal under hook. Of course must be deactivated in EGC.
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I said if they try to make it having a big downside they can tweak it better than removing chance to fight tunneling in solo q where STB is already rare.
My suggestion:
Shoulder the burden
→ Press F to unhook survivor. The lose one hook stage and you gain hook stage and scream. Once you unhook a survivor all your perks will be disabled for the rest of the trial.
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@Thirteen said:
Shoulder is fundamentally broken due to providing a game breaking interaction. For 8 years, the games fundamental was:
-Hook states are permanent progression.
The more you hook someone, the closer they are to being killed, which is the killers objective.
Shoulder says "nah", it does not undo progress, but it gives survivors the ability to intentionally spread hook states to buy more time and stretch a game out (killer is always racing against time).
>Just go after someone else/target the person who shouldered
Still does not defeat the point, if you are down to 2 gens, you need someone out ASAP if you want to actually create pressure, someone being shouldered gives you 2 more chases on the said survivor, which can lose you the game.
Bonus points if its stacked.
You have 2 survivors on death hook.
With 2 shoulders, now every survivor has 1 hook state, while the progress is the same, it is definitely not the same, each survivor needs to be downed 2 times for an elimination versus 2 survivors being out in one down, which on its own applies pressure by making them unable to pull aggressive/reckless plays.
Game has changed a lot. You can now stall gens more, you can now repair gens faster (untill ptb goes live)… Modern killers are not those old who had average chase of 2mins, new modern killers are capable of downing you in matter of seconds if they play well. Some of them have very low or none counterplay (Henry, Judgment, Nurse…). So shifting hooks isn't "this never was a thing" excuse. I'm glad they are making stronger killers but both sides must feel like they have chance to win and not like "It's Legion, free win." or "It's Nurse with full aura, gg."
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118311#Comment_4118311
You have no data to support your viewpoint, but I can provide you with the astonishing data from 5,646 individual matches carrying STB, which achieved a 40% escape rate, to tell you that this perk needs to be changed.
StB change is healthy ,and Stb need more nerf, like only use when that survivor is healthy.
because all killer that only use M1 can not Prevent StB from being used.
Which makes sense. You can deny hooks by many options - saves, sabo etc. STB is only different way that will still keep the amount of hooks the killer got. Saves deny those hook stages. Imagine if we live in DBD era where every survivor is forced to run perks that might in the end end not being usable at all if other teammates use them. Let's say Deliverence once per match per all survivors. They basically made that hybrid try with lend a hand. It went from once per game to once per survivor. So from absolutely useless to the point where if your teammate runs lend a hand with boons or whatever and use it on all other teammates you have one less perk, but this is just a slight version of that issue. But I screamed since PTB started that as long as BT won't be changed I don't mind STB receiving this nerf but if they push those changes then well, good luck getting away from hard tunneling killers. Clown with new two tap build will be nightmare to go against in tunneling scenario. But in the end, whatever BHVR cooks will spread killer and survivor community even more. From patch screaming "we want survivors to have fun" to patch "we want survivor role to be as miserable as possible". I don't tunnel as killer if truly not needed, like 95 % of my games I don't. But seeing tunneling and slugging at 5 gens by meta killers who don't need that to achieve victory feels frustrating. And even worse that there are so many streamers promoting and calling those a must playstyles.
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118309#Comment_4118309
base game anti-tunnel? nope, don't need this. good at looping is good anti-tunnel.
survivor that don't have anti-tunnel base-kit, is more powerful than now.
A disabled person who has lost their crutch will first consider how to hop on one foot. After finding a companion, the two will walk side by side.
Eventually, they will realize that they can walk independently without a crutch; they just need to master the correct method.
They are not truly disabled, only previously overly reliant on the crutch.
It has been a long time since I last saw survivors waiting to cooperate with other survivors for rescue.
Well. That is not true. Some maps are not good for lasting long in chase, also depends on what killer you go against. And get gud at looping = make game miserable for players who don't have 5000hrs in the game? That is not correct thinking I'm sorry.
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118304#Comment_4118304
I understand what you mean:
If a bad precedent is harmful to killers but beneficial to survivors, you choose to remain silent
If a perk that should have been weakened for survivors is changed, you consider it a 'bad precedent'.
you post Good First Steps For Nerfing Blight — BHVR
but nerf blight give killer a "bad Precedent"(I know break palate power cool-down start at GHOUL) that all killer can nerf by this way.
and YOU DON'T think this is "bad precedent" and THIS nerf is a good "first" steps.
🤣🤣🤣
now Shoulder The Burden be nerfed.
What? look familiar?
Scenes like these are happening all over the Entity, right now!
You could be next.Then you should bear it, because you have always supported handling it this way.
The issue isn't that STB is getting nerfed. The issue is that pretty much any antitunnel perks got nerfed with promise of base game antitunnel coming, promise never fullfilled. Off The Record went from 80s to 40s even when it has high restrictions like Decisive strike to not being able to perform anything without deactivating it. Antitunnel perks got deactivated in EGC. Anticamp got less headstart to be filled but more if killer stays very close to hook for long time. Unhook protections got nerfed by 5s with gift of elusive which is useless on many open maps if killer desperately wants to target same survivor. Now they want to rework BT which was only option of helping tunneled teammated apart from babysitter which suffers the exact same issues as elusive. So their path is to make off hook protection no longer going over 10s (unless you have off the record) and make helping tunneled survivors impossible. You can take the hit, but in the end if the survivor isn't goated or doesn't have antitunnel perks which are not that common anymore as they got hit hard you won't be able to protect them which causes same frustrations as multiSTB. I have truly no idea what am I gonna do against high tier killers desperately trying to kill someone at 5 gens. Neither they will.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
As people have mentioned it'd be really fun with the memes of everyone going "Damn!" when someone goes down, even if you had a volume toggle for voices or w/e, could tie it into the voiceline toggle for characters in general.
I'd personally love to express myself as the characters I play if even it was proximity based, I love the characters of DBD, and would love to hear them more. I know people are going to be cynical and disagree, but I know lots of people who want this when you announced it, they're just not the sort to go on socials to give feedback.It would be very funny. But sadly it's not possible due to voice actors. I still hate that killer voicelines can be heared by survivors but survivors voicelines cant be heared by neither killers or survivors. Like Aurora says: "Arrogant Monster". and Judgment hears nothing. Orela says: "You gonna be allright". but healed survivors hear nothing. This is something I don't understand why works like that.
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@Zakon05 said:
Even setting aside that it's wholly unnecessary for this perk - multiple uses only even can happen in scenarios that aren't actively throwing is when someone's tunnelled
Let me break down how I see it used - and I'm not exaggerating here - 100% of the time in my own matches.
SCENARIO 1:
Killer hooks survivor A
Killer hooks survivor B
Killer hooks survivor A again.
Killer leaves the hook. Survivor C unhooks survivor A with Shoulder the Burden. Now no one is on death hook and the killer has been punished for not camping.
Killer hooks survivor A, B, or C and then, once again, leaves the hook. Survivor D unhooks with Shoulder the Burden. Now, once again, the killer has been punished for not camping and now also not tunneling.
SCENARIO 2:
Killer hooks survivor A.
Killer hooks survivor B.
Killer hooks survivor C.
Killer hooks survivor A, B, or C again and leaves the hook.
Survivor D unhooks with Shoulder the Burden. The killer has now been punished not only for not camping or tunneling, but also for spreading hooks.
Deactivating it for all players solves scenario 1.
Yes this happens to me when I'm playing killer.
Yes, EVERY SINGLE TIME I see it used it's one of these two situations.
No, it's not common, but tell me truthfully if you think that the perk cannot be abused after reading this.
Got you. Tbf I haven't played against many STB as it's very selfless perk. I understand the frustrations of it but imagine those scenarios happen on both sides.
Scenario 1:
4 gens are done, last is about to pop.
Survivor ABC are one hook from death, survivor D is carried to the hook while survivor don't know pain res wasn't used on him yet. Boom 99 % gen to 79 % into DMS into high mobility killer into slug injured survivor who tried to finish the gen over healing themselves into pushing another survivor and boom. What couldve been 2 out is 4k.
Scenario 2:
You are chased against killer who has endfury charged up, you don't know they have it. The hit you and you move to another loop, endfury happens, you are downed as last gen pops you go to basement, two other survivors have to leave because they can't save you. First hook to die because you got "outplayed".
Scenario 3:
You try to hide near almost completed gen and manage to get very good hiding spot where you slowly move around to avoid killer's vision. Killer can't find you, they kick gen, have nowhere to hide and find you.
Just reminder that those are not only survivors who have powerfull tools without much counterplay. While I still lean towards killer side I absolutely hate any additional weaknesses to antitunnel.
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As killer main I don't mind this perk that much as some others but I defienetly think that either borrowed time or STB change must be reverted or tweaked otherwise we will deny any option to help tunneled teammate.
People don't understand the real downsides of STB:
→ If you are hooked, the perk is useless for rest of the game.
→ if you use it, you must be on 0 hook stages.
→ Using STB gives you hook stage but this means you have 1 less chance to use any hook related perks - resurgence, dead hard, ds…
→ Using STB creates scenario where you become hot target as you can go from 0 to death hook in matter of seconds, if you have antitunnel those will be less likey to be unexpected and won't help you aka you help someone to survive while you hurt yourself to most likely die which is not common to risk for random teammates, therefore it's extremely rare that someone has STB and use it on you.
→ Obviously if killer is not agressively tunneling it does nothing from scenario where STB player rats around to use it.
→ Is very uneffective against proxycamping killers, even more now if it makes you one shot for 2mins.
→ Can be completely negated by stupid randoms farming hooks without checking your perks.
And more…
The only issue I have is if 4 people have shoulder the burden and redistribute their hook stages but tbf I haven't got a single game like this since STB been out. So it's nearly impossible scenario.
How would I personally change it?
→ Using shoulder the burden no longer injures, exposes or cause screams. Can be again used by multiple survivors per game. Every survivor using STB will now have all their perks deactivated for rest of the trial. Which is a huge downside if killer players wants some, this one defienetly worth it. Please let me know what you think. Cheers.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118271#Comment_4118271
I think people majorly overestimate Road Life. The perk does heal very fast and comes from doing the objective, but requires you to stay vulnerable when in a lot of situations it would be unwise. I ran Road Life for 4-5 games in the PTB with a toolbox and only used it I think 2-3 times. And for those 2-3 uses it was amazing. But outside of those cases, it was much smarter to let a teammate heal me instead so that I wasn't leaving myself vulnerable on the objective the killer likely could check. If you force it every time you get injured, I feel like it has the potential to be a trap and get you killed.
A good medkit still is better than Road Life overall. With Sutures and Iri Bandage, you can get 2 unconditional heals that take around 11s. It's not much slower than Road Life, doesn't require staying injured, and can be used any time you want. I'd still take the medkit over Road Life, but Road Life is definitely viable. Who knows, I could be wrong if people find more use in the long term, I just don't think people are taking the context of a match into account enough and are focused too much on how fast the heal is. Either way, that's why I didn't include it, although I know some people are concerned about it.
The issue isn't the effectivness of the perk. It's obvious that it's more of extra tool to heal yourself and working on gen intentionally injured isn't smart unless it's legion or such killer. But my issue is that Strenght in Shadow allows you infinite heals at decent speed while at basement and only issue of that perk is that it's not very effecient. Travel time to basement, time to heal takes time and I believe Strenght in Shadow can easily be 100 % base speed without making the perk much stronger. If you desperately need heal and there is no one to heal you, you have option to do it on yourself which is fine. Self Care is a joke. 0.35 charge of heal per second is laughable even when paired with botany. It has no restrictions and no requirement but still suffers massive penalty for what other things can do better. If you pick good medkit and built to last, you can heal yourself up to 6 times which won't probably be even neccessary unless you do some duty of care, for the people or whatever build. On the other hand road life works passively, you can pressure gens injured when there is no one to heal you and heal quickly in the process if killer isn't pushing you off. This will be a nail in the coffin to thana legion, which I'm actually looking forward to because im tired of iri buttons undfury thana legions but tbf they will suffer a lot. Killers like Wraith who's more viable around hit and run, Onryo and those killers too. It's issue of the game that weakest killers suffer from otherwise mediocre or okish perks the most. Think of Made For This, why it was so hated? Because back in the day not that many killers had dash powers or speed traversals. In the current version of the game I can't imagine made for this working when simply injured being problematic against most of the killers - fe. Freddy has stationary puddles, Pig had shorter dash, Myers had no dash etc. I only mind those changes because killers who are already struggling will struggle even more while strong killers will become even stronger as tunneling will be more efficient, gen speed got hit hard with many perks being nerfed and holding w against them to waste time doesn't work. I'd like Road Life to have those changes: Now doesn't deactivate when downed, heal takes min. 12s, time of disrupt before perk deactivates may be increased to 8s so it's more viable to heal someone and yourself in the process. I don't think it needs hard nerf, just tiny heal penalty and would be fine.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118262#Comment_4118262
How long would you like the killer queues to get with all these people returning? Because it sure isn't all the survivors who've quit that'll be coming back.
Queues got longer because a lot of new players with massively known licenses added to the game. Untill Ghoul queues were instant, with Springtrap and Jason they got much longer.
@Arcturus said:
People use this point because the killer meta has gone almost entirely untouched, and if you are looking realistically at this patch and the last few patches, they have all been a lot more beneficial to killers than survivors. People complain about WoO because the perk was simply popular, not meta. You will never see a winstreak squad run WoO literally ever, it is just not worth running. It is only popular because it is useful for newer players, solo players, and comfortability. It is genuinely not problematic in any way and anyone who thinks it is is only annoyed that new players don't go down in 10s and has barely played survivor.
Another reason is that WoO was entirely unproblematic and undeserving of a rework, yet genuinely problematic perks remain. Forced Hesitation and Infectious incentivize heavy slugging. Pain Res, while being even more popular than WoO, is not only incredibly powerful but also often used for tunneling because, despite its surface design encouraging spreading hooks, you still can continue to get Pain Res hits after a survivor dies early.
The 4 perks vs 16 perks also makes zero sense, the perks are already made with the concept of an asymm in mind. How does WoO even stack with itself? It doesn't. Which is more impactful, one Sprint Burst that gains you 5m on the killer at the beginning of a chase, usually just guaranteeing you are able to get to a resource without getting hit within a few seconds, or one perk that effectively stalls the entire game by 20s every time you kick a gen after a hook (Pop)?
And yes, putting on multiple slowdown perks is still meta, and unlike survivors who mostly got QoL changes with some nice buffs that make more perks usable, killers got many new strong perks including a few that may contest spots in the meta.
If you want to solve the quad slowdown problem, nerf both killer slowdown perks and toolboxes.
Gen perks will remain meta no matter what. Nerf pain res, people will run TBTC, nerf Eruption, people will run Surge, nerf pop and people will run undone. It doesn't matter. Same as WOO, killers also like compfort of having game more under control.
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@ShadowCyrax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118249#Comment_4118249
I would be fine if Stakeout didn't work with Hyperfocus, but was Fogwise and Roadlife really an issue. A lot of perks remove skill for comfort; Troubleshooter, I'm All Ears, Nowhere To Hide. I could list a lot more.
Even is this update they made Spies From The Shadow, This Is Not Happening, Small Game easier to use despite them making crow disturbance easier to spot, skillchecks easier, and just showing you totems.
I honestly don't think any of of those perks are bad for the game, but I really liked stakeout with fogwise and hate seeing that combo go.
I understand that. Everyone has some objections towards changes. However one thing dev noted was true. Perks that require great skill checks should be achieved by great skill checks and they teased they have plan to make more perks based on them.
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Nice post! :) I think Shoulder The Burden is a hot take and while it has insanely unhealthy potential it's one of most effective way how to fight back tunneling. Shoulder the burden in the end transfers hooks, doesn't remove them. So killer can either swap target or keep tunneling the same person. But killers complaining about someone being hooked 5 times to die doesn't make any sense. If you mindlessly tunnel someone for 5 hooks you should at this point lose the game automatically. Tbf, I have no idea how you suppose to help someone getting tunneled after this update. My second point, BT rework makes no sense. They didn't put elusive in the perk, neither if they would the perk still would be ok. Elusive is deactivated in the endgame so it will only get players option to get away from hook a bit further. While I hate a lot of survivor stuff, I'm beyond mesmerized how prominent tunneling is becoming.
My only change you didn't mention is Road Life. The perk is just too strong. It can remain self heal unlockable ability, but 8s heal is a bit too much for the fact that you can pressure gens at the same time. I think they can entirely removed the speed bonus so killers have option to intervene before the heal is done to maintain pressure without survivors playing against hit and run doing gigaheals in few seconds. If it's 16s heal, you would be still able to pair it with something else to make the speed faster, but 8s is just way too quick.
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People playing only survivors don't realize how underpowered killer role is. That's fine. Once they fix remaining survivor problematic perks more people may return to the game, hopefully.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118253#Comment_4118253
Of course. But if you expect to in every game or most of your games, you should not expect to get to play chill. This is the issue, Killers want to win most of the time, but Killers also dont want to put a lot of effort into it. And at this point, it is questionable if they actually want a PvP game.
EDIT: This is basically the same as if Survivors would say that they want to escape, but dont want to do Gens.
Killers are meant to be the powerhouse and should be dominating most of the matches. I have escape rate of 52-68 on my most played survivors. It says it all. If killer kill rate is below 50 % which is case of most killers atm it's not indicating the game being well balanced around survivor vs killer strenght. I'm not saying killers should have 90-100 % kill rate. But 70 %-80 % should be achievable without playing comp tournament set up.
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People have issue with ability to distibute hooks, not the downsides. Some killers will swap targets to avoid antitunnel while still having someone on death hook.
More of reworks like these.
1: Press F to unhook survivors. Unhooking emits no sound and has 5s delay before shown on the UI.
2: For each hook stages the survivor has increase they're elusive duration by 10s.
3: Press F to unhook survivor. They gain broken for 30s and are healed after that.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HWV43RF8WUPF/pharmacy.png
I tested Pharmacy with Keys and Coins on the PTB and by the Entity this combo generates an absurd amount of items and far too many medkits. I could unlock the chest with the Key and get a rare medkit, rummage for another item and another survivor could still rummage yet again for another item.
I think Pharmacy should be:
Pharmacy
- The first 3 times you unlock a Chest, it will contain a rare Med-Kit.
- You unlock and rummage Chests 75/100/125% faster. (was only unlock) (stays on regardless of charges)
- You can rummage each Chest 1 time, up to 3 chests. (NEW)
- The range at which the Killer hears you unlocking Chests is 12m shorter. (stays on regardless of charges)
I think there should be a limit to how many medkits/items Pharmacy will generate. As it is currently on the PTB Pharmacy has the potential to provide what Boon: Circle of Healing used to, the ability for any survivor to go and heal themselves while the rest of the team is free to work on generators if they're not being pressured by the killer. Possibly even worse as there is no boon to stomp out, no way to drain items and multiple locations.
This would still be an absurdly good perk with 3 medkits/3 rummages as that is still at least 3 medkits. It just would have diminishing returns when paired with coins or, Entity forbid, the killer brings Hoarder.
Lol. Rare medkits do nothing on self heal. That's why Pharmacy's already low pick rate died when they nerfed medkits to be all same charges. Pharmacy on PTB is still something that won't be used. Single perk can do better without needing to waste time at chests.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118243#Comment_4118243
People can have chill Killer games, if they are chill themselves. People who talk about "Killer Anxiety" are usually sweating and want to win. And you cannot play the game to win all the time and then want chill games.
And honestly, if playing a game REALLY gives them anxiety, they might not want to play the game.
Well it's PVP game so both sides try to win. People are not sweaty, they just try to utilize tools to increase odds of winning, it's not that deep. Someone doesn't tunnel you at 5 gens because they are bad, but because they are doing win streaks and try to go for as many wins as possible. I think being sweaty is something that has no meaning. Killer brought iri add ons? Sweaty. Killer brought slowdowns? Sweaty. Killer tunnels to maintain pressure? Sweaty. If people try to win 400+ games which are regular winstreaks they have to play the smartest they can.
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@T1MEXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118198#Comment_4118198
A simple nerf would be do that Hyperfocus doesn't stack with generators.
Hyperfocus is only of only skill-based perks in the game. Devs said they are changing stake out because they want great-skill check perks to only work on great skill checks and not being cheesed by stake out. Hyperfocus was never issue on it's own. If someone manages the superspeed great skill checks than they deserve those 1.8 extra progress. Stake out made many perks easy to use, perks like Road Life, Fogwise, Do No Harm… it's good change forward. Perks that remove skills are not good and I'm glad Hyperfocus will now only reward trully skilled players.
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It was very funny to see Clown moving at 140 % speed. Was meme, but now with buffed save the best for last I feel that Clown is in decent spot.
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Exactly the point. You will have to play safer but if killers dedicate their build towards two tapping you won't be facing same 5 slowdown perks over and over again.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117868#Comment_4117868
“is exactly designed for people suffering killers anxiety (sabo builds, flashlight saves, pallet saves, window saves, antitunnel perks, perk off hook - dead hard, baby sitter, STB, Off The Record, Ressurgence…)”
Lol killer anxiety
Well. It is what it is. People want to have chill killer games but face too many frustrating mechanics. That's why people talk about killer anxiety. I understand it. If killers are insanely unfun to play against (which two of them are for me), survivors would suffer that too. Luckily killers are fairly balanced or not balanced enough, but no more overpowered. I understand frustrations from playing against Knight and Henry, maybe Trickster. Those killers are simply uninteractive to go against and there is nothing much to help it.
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It opens path to make boons stronger. I'm all for keeping shattered hope is is.
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If Road Life goes live no antiheal matters anymore. Sloppy butcher can be infinite, leverage can go to 50 % decreased heal for 60s. But maybe next patch. They can't change everything at once. :)
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@Mortimer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117898#Comment_4117898
"Seems alright to me".
Man you can't even unhook a teammate without getting double-tapped right in front of the hook, what are you talking about?This is something you could do with three different perks already.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117933#Comment_4117933
Those aren't the same at all. Yes anti-slug and heal perks are powerful against killers that excel at slugging and snowballing matches like Twins and Oni, but their power works just fine. Twins, depending on the situation, might be a bit more impacted if Victor downs someone across the entire map from Charlotte, but especially Oni can just down a survivor then pick them up. It's not like running WGLF suddenly makes Victor indept or disables Oni's ability to go into power, they are just strong perks against their optimal gameplay.
Going against a plague makes heal perks do completely nothing, except if you get the rare chance to heal a slug on the ground and your healing perk also applies in that situation. Going against a Judgment makes any hooks based off of unhooking a survivor, getting hooked, or anything to do with a survivor being carried do completely nothing. If you run perks like Overcome against Billy, unless the Billy is willing to m1 you the perk does nothing.
But in the end you can pick shaking thunder and end on map with no elevation or pick shattered hope and survivors won't have boon either. It's just a perk won't always give you consistent value.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117868#Comment_4117868
Just because you clicked on some boxes doesn't mean you get to win for free. The community who voted also included survivor players who are unhappy with this design.
If you're anxiety over a video game is so bad that you can't handle any aspect of it you shouldn't be playing but if you're okay with this reasoning then tou must be okay with a new survivor who has special basekit abilities that allow them to negate pretty much all killer powers and perks because the survivor players who have anxiety can't handle them.
I love Judgment because she's quite hard to masater for chase. The fact that people run aura perks on her and just play passively isn't the issue of the killer. Long snipes are very reactable and you always count with nurses being in play and if that frustrates you you might as well pop on perks like place for us, shadowstep or object of obsession. :)
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117875#Comment_4117875
I like that you said it's a both sides issue as you list off only survivor perks and builds
There are more of them obviously on the survivor side. Let's say Twins vs Heal Perks, Oni vs antislug perks etc. I believe I don't have to name them all do I? :)
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117850#Comment_4117850
Yes basic attack cooldown perks got huge buffs / changes, so did passive regression. And yes, you are right, tunneling just became even more meta once again because yet another anti-tunnel perk got massively nerfed.
But what do you mean "crazy heal buffs"? 15% more on Empathic Connection, the same as Botany already was? Or the Do No Harm skill check buff that I tried out for several games and makes almost zero difference? The Solidarity buff that essentially was just a QoL change?
And the idea of a vault speed meta is laughable. With Finnesse, WoO, and Spine Chill you can max get 27.5% vault speed on a half a minute cooldown if they even all work at the same time, Finesse does 20% all on its own. If you run the new vault speed perks on their own, WoO is just an in between of Finesse and Resi, you can run Finesse for a much more noticeable effect while healthy or run Resi for zero cooldown, but at least WoO works no matter the health state, even if it is on a cooldown. Spine Chill is a joke because it procs while the killer is still 40m away, it's always on cooldown when you actually need it.
And yes, you are also right that genrush is nerfed because Stake Out is now completely terrible.
People are upset about the changes, people who play survivor, because they got hit the hardest. StB got nerfed to the ground and WoO, a perk that was only picked so much for comfort and for new players, got changed into something completely different, and no matter what perk combo you do, even dedicating 3 slots, you will not be able to get the exact same effect.
I'm talking about Road Life which is by far of of the most busted reworks ever done. 8s self heal for hitting 4 greats is crazy. If you get good skill checks rng that would be dead of hit and run. Botany doesn't show auras, Emp. connection does for price of no bonus to self heal. You can also use better than new to give all survivors botany, flow state and pharmacy, which is huge. Kinda upset that more survivor meta perks haven't been touched and a lot of perk changes are tier 1 tier 2 numeric changes. Was expected nerfs to finesse, lithe, deja vu, dramaturgy, champion of light, botany knowledge, lucky break, power struggle and many more problematic perks currently in the game. But hopefully next patch will adress decent score of perks too. I'm also upset that killer's meta got untouched apart from DMS. Most of my games are combinations of Corrupt, Lethal, Pain res, Nowhere To Hide, Pop, Eruption and Surge. 99 % combo of those 4 perks. But I understand that killers are in situation where they either run full meta slowdown build or just tunnel someone out asap. Those two updates brought bit better balance to make both sides evenly strong while providing new ways to play the game. Still think that Dark Arrogance and Road Life are too much. Dark Arogance has exact numbers to deny hook trades and Road Life is just pasive giga self-heal which contradicts the self heal being always penalized.
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You can get hit off hooked and use dead hard after automend fe. I feel it's terrible design and don't feel good about removing last resource to protect other players from being tunneled.
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@Thirteen said:
I can see this being very obnoxious against Legion ngl
Mend from deep wounds caused by taking hits while having endurance. Please read. :) You're not first person commenting this here. To trigger it you have to tank hit with basekit bt, off the record or other perks like soul guard or dead hard.
And btw automend against legion would be awfull as you want to finish mend after his power is over so you don't give him opportunity to 5th strike.
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As long as you don't get extra zombie per dead survivor which was highly discussed topic I have no issue of Nemesis having 3-4 zombies in 1v4. He has no map pressure and while the Zombies can be annoying they have strict counterplay - kill them with pallets or blind them. If more zombies are added it's possible to make special chests that create some form of flashbangs (similiar chests to Singu) to make higher amount of zombies reasonable counterplay and add passive slowdown to Nemesis' kit.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117699#Comment_4117699
Imagine there was a survivor perk that gave survivors 5% haste with no conditions beyond being 24 meters away from the killer. The harmonized whining of the killer community would deafen us all.
TBF I believe that 5 % is quite laughable value. And gladly people made threat about it. Personally I would like it being 15-20 % so no mobility killers gain more pressure and gap themselves more bewteen high mobility killers. If that happen we can expect balance with expectations that killers are able to traverse map in few seconds.
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I hate this type of SP anyway, the best era was when it gave you lucky break if someone within your range got damaged. Had more interactive gameplay and I don't understand why it got full rework in the first place.
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Still seems allright to me. You lower your attack cooldown from 2.7s to 1.3s for price of 2-3 perk slots if you wanna manage keeping stacks by celestial witness.
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3 Krasue players switching to new mains. :D It's defienetly terrible change. Dissolution was already pretty mediocre perk good mainly on Krasue, Ghoul and Lich. Now with basic attack requirement I can't see reason to pop it on Krasue at all.
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It's out of chase and out of range. As long as it doesn't linger it can easily be 20 % and still be fairly balanced.
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Maybe rework will be better, let's say:
Whenever survivor having shoulder the burden gain hook stage, they will be revealed to all other players for 30s once unhooked, if any survivor takes protection hit for the revealed survivor, the unhooked survivor gets 150 % speed boost for 5s
Or
Unhooking survivors has 5s delay and killer is notified of it.
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@Mortimer said:
https://x.com/Cinnastrophe/status/2099949902394519866
https://x.com/MintSkullYT/status/2099973797264634253https://x.com/Procyondbd/status/2099915010143035477
Even with diminishing returns, this combo is lethal and leaves survivors with zero counterplay in chase, making double-taps insanely effective, never mind the survivors' imperfect pathing in these clips—the speed boost is completely negligible compared to the weapon cooldown anyway, so the point still stands.Honorable mention: check out that Doctor clip where you literally can't unhook a survivor—pretty good job, I'd say.
Good combo for killers in chase, fine on my part. 2 less slowdowns.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117871#Comment_4117871
As if any sane person would ever bring that perk.
Shattered Hope is still stuck in the same ditch it was since the beginning: unless the opponent picks a specific perk, you get next to no use.
Also not sure what relation this has to a weird build.
Well but this is both sides issue right? If you bring healing build and face Plague you have no perks. If you bring overcome and face Hillbilly you have no perk, If you bring antislug and killer doesn't slug it does nothing either. The perks are not meant to have guaranteed value every game. Or do you think that perks like We See You are trash because killer can bring zero aura perks? Knight guards destroyed by exhaustion perks? Full aura deleted by shadowstep and so on?
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@Hex_Doomsday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117850#Comment_4117850
Well a "meta shakup" should be a meta shake up, not small buff here and there. So yes they should have touched those perks, create a new playstyle, new mechanics and a new way to play but, in the end it's genrush vs slowdown, same perks, same stale meta. And in a month no one will use those "new" perks, or at least no one who play to win
Genrush meta no longer exist. Perks got diminished, none got buffed over 10 % = 8.5s faster gen and hyperfocus + stake out will no longer be a combo meaning that max HF tokens will give you 2.8 % bonus as reward for hitting the coulrophobia speed skillchecks. Gens will now take longer to complete with full genrush build.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117547#Comment_4117547
Ye, it makes the cooldown of basic attacks shorter
Close to 1s recovery at max tokens. Crazy innit.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
- Boon: Illumination: Allows you to place boon totems 200% faster
- Boon: Shadow Step (hides scratchmarks)
- Small Game (Shows aura of nearby dulltotems)
- Boon Exponential (Lets you self recover from the dying state)
- Item: Bring a flashlight
With this goofy ahh build, you're going to be placing a boon. After that, your goofy ahh is going to run after the person being chased while you keep throwing down boon totems in the areas they are looping to remove their scratchmarks.
If they go down, you come for the flashlight save, and if they find you and you stall long enough, they can get themselves up with exponential 😉
(If you're a pro at finding totems, you can also consider adding Boon: Dark Theory for the 3% extra looping speed instead of Small Game)
Enjoy your goofy ahh gameplay ❤️Shattered hope now automatically shows you position of Boons if they are placed mapwide. :) Hope you won't have issue versing mediocre boon perks anymore
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I'll defend Judgment because:
→ It's community killer, therfore being strong isn't an issue.
→ is exactly designed for people suffering killers anxiety (sabo builds, flashlight saves, pallet saves, window saves, antitunnel perks, perk off hook - dead hard, baby sitter, STB, Off The Record, Ressurgence…)
→ you don't have to suffer strong loops as your power goes through everything
IMO Judgment is fine and those who don't want to suffer enxiety can play her without torturing themselves. Fairs.
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Quick notes without defending WOO nerf:
WOO allows:
→ see what RNG map was generated - some perks spawn some don't even on static maps, meaning it prevents you from running into deadzones
→ see what pallets been used, allowing you to not run into deadzone aka not die in 20s chase because you have no resource to defend yourself
→ see what tiles rng spawned - let's be honest there are a lot of new type tiles that you can't clearly identify just by seeing it, neither which side window spawned or where pallet spawned and there are many unique tiles (not TL, not Jungle, not pallet jyms, not fillers) I'm talking about those long Z walls, small U pallet loops etc… tbf by adding those BHVR made looping and learning maps already insanely difficult and to extend where you can't even predict loops as veteran player because they simply never spawn same neither same positions. WOO will lead to a lot of free hits from bad pathing, which in the end in massive nerf to survivors especially casual ones because experienced players can chain loops and better know tiles overall.
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@Mortimer said:
Here we go,
The long-awaited day has finally arrived for the perk most dreaded by the killer community—the very one preventing them from getting a 4k every single match and jeopardizing their 200-game win streaks.
Surely, that must be it.Just like the problem back in the day was DH, DS, Adrenaline, Sprint Burst, Hope, MfT, Distortion, CoH, Deliverance, Vigil, Fast Track, Iron Will, Spine Chill, Self-Care, StB (nuked in this patch), etc... now, what a coincidence, the issue is suddenly a simple info perk.
That’s definitely why they're losing games, no need to panic.Are survivors even allowed to exist in this game, or do we have to tax the very air they breathe just because some 15k-hour full-time streamer claimed they lose those three matches a month because of WoO, so action had to be taken? What’s next, limiting survivors to three perks each?
WoO is now borderline useless. Knowing window spawns is essentially pointless since they always spawn in the exact same spots in main buildings and tiles. Replacing it with Five Moves Ahead isn’t the same thing either: the perk goes on an absurdly long cooldown during a chase, has a shorter range, and completely prevents windows aura reading. Long story short, even running both together won’t come close to what it used to be.
You managed to deliver a direct slap in the face to both beginners—who struggle the most with map knowledge—and the entire SoloQ player base, which now has zero visual info on whether resources have been burned.
Bravo on the timing and the execution, truly a masterclass move.Deserved nerf. I hate that they didn't nerf nowhere to hide more because it's the exact same type of perk design. Free info withou doing much. Only issue I have is rising tunnel meta, otherwise this PTB brought a lot of interesting changes on the field.
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The perk must be nerfed. Now or later, it doesn't matter. It's same as nowhere to hide, braindead "follow aura" with no real reward-type interaction.
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This is something already live in the game. Bardic takes 15s to perform so it already gives you massive time penalty. Current "genrush" meta got nerfed and diminished so PTB gen speed can't realistically be equal as currently live. If you speak of 1234 and Bardic = 30s to perform to do gen in 50s that save you about 10s off gen which you can already do with other standalone perks on their own. Killers also got perks to passively regress gens and recover quickly from basic attack so in the end the pressure killer will be able to create is insane. I played Clown yesterday and I was two tapping people with rapid, save and dark arrogance. They all had hyperfocus, stake out and toolboxes and done 2 gens. I'm more worried about Solo Q as I think it gets weaken and weaken constantly. Chat wheel feels great, but spreading information won't change fact that your teammates last 10s in chase, don't do gens and are more vulnarable to be tunneled out quicker.
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New meta of insanely quick basic attack cooldown is coming. Meta od passive regression is coming. What do you mean? Those changes are good. You have undestroyable activatable ruin. Tunneling got buffed, now survivors will have max 10s of protection and you are guaranteed to tunnel someone out at 4 hooks if multiple shoulders are in the game. Survivors got some crazy heal buffs which will allow them to reset better now when Vigil no longer reduces antiheals. Vault speed meta is coming. There are a lot of options to pick from. I agree that meta, especially killer meta was untouched but in the end do you think people would not complain if devs completely overnerf pain res, pop, corrupt, eruption, nowhere to hide or lithe, finesse, deja vu, resilience? I doubt people will take it.