Survivor perk changes are disappointing and frustrating
I was genuinely excited for this patch, I thought both sides would get some interesting perk updates that unlock new unique perk combos, and maybe this would give me a reason to start playing more survivor again since every patch lately I've been pushed to play more and more killer.
And we did, on the killer side. Genuinely think there are some great changes for killer perks, a lot of them have been made genuinely strong from a useless perk, some may have been more so cozy / nice-to-have perks that got buffed to be even nicer, and a few might even contest the meta. Honestly there's a few perks that I'm a bit worried about being over tuned, but I'd much rather that then a bunch of nothing burger perk changes. I look forward to experimenting with my killer builds more.
However, on the survivor side we got many nothing burger updates, along with a plethora of nerfs. Like, genuinely, it's kind of insane how little there is to encourage me to play survivor. Here is a list of all the perk changes and how I would categorize them:
Killer perks | Buff or Nerf |
|---|---|
Agitation | Green/Blue buff, nothing changes. |
Iron Grasp | Green/Blue buff, nothing changes. |
Deerstalker | Small buff |
Game Afoot | Small buff |
Bitter Murmur | Buff |
Fire Up | Buff |
Spies from the Shadows | Buff |
Unbound | Buff |
Machine Learning | Buff |
Dark Arrogance | Buff |
Distressing | Buff |
Superior Anatomy | Buff |
Unrelenting | Buff |
Dominance | Large Buff |
Hex: Nothing But Misery | Large Buff |
Knockout | Large buff |
Scourge Hook: Monstrous Shrine | Large buff |
Insidious | Massive buff (undetectable on command is insane) |
Shattered Hope | Massive buff |
Undone | Massive buff |
Whispers | Massive buff |
Help Wanted | MASSIVE buff |
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt | Nerf / side-grade (could still be insane on stronger killers) |
Dead Man's Switch | Small nerf |
Dissolution | Nerf (works almost the same for m1 killers) |
Hex: Blood Favour | Nerf (works almost the same for m1 killers) |
This is what I wanted to see from the perk update. Many perks got sizable buffs, making a huge difference. There are a couple of nerfs for what I assume are the "problematic perks" they mentioned and I think that's good, but there are only a couple so killers are still eating very well. Let's look at survivor.
Killer perks | Buff or Nerf |
|---|---|
Kindred | Green/Blue buff, nothing changes. |
No One Left Behind | Green/Blue buff, nothing changes. |
Resilience | Green/Blue buff, nothing changes. |
We'll Make It | Green/Blue buff, nothing changes. |
Slippery Meat | Completely different effect & use, not great though |
Premonition | Small buff / side-grade |
Friendly competition | Small buff / side-grade (did we really need a shorter duration) |
Blood Pact | Small buff / QoL update |
Pharmacy | Small buff / QoL update |
Solidarity | Small buff / QoL update |
Empathic Connection | Small buff |
Do No Harm | Small buff |
Wake Up! | Small buff |
Object of Obsession | Small buff |
Boon: Illumination | Buff |
Calm Spirit | Buff |
Dark Sense | Buff |
Sole Survivor | Buff |
Plunderer's Instinct | Buff |
Road Life | Buff |
Spine Chill | Buff |
Better Than New | Large buff |
Flow State | Large buff |
Small Game | Large buff |
This Is Not Happening | Large buff |
Five Moves Ahead | Nerf |
Windows of Opportunity | Large nerf (to a comfort perk) |
Self Preservation | Massive nerf |
Shoulder the Burden | MASSIVE nerf |
Borrowed Time | MASSIVE nerf (genuinely don't know what this is used for) |
Stake Out | MASSIVE nerf (literally trash) |
Survivor perks got more nerfs and honestly much bigger nerfs. 2/3 of killer perk nerfs make it so the perk works almost exactly the same as before, just not on the strongest of killers. Survivors had several perks absolutely obliterated.
More than that though, the perk buffs are nothing burgers. Survivor's got double the Green/Blue buffs that honestly make it feel like they're there to make it seem like survivors got more than they did. Even the more sizable buffs mostly just make a terrible perk usable, there is almost nothing actually strong.
Illumination's new effect is cool, still not worth running. Plunderer's Instinct will buff chest builds slightly which is nice, but even though I love a good chest build they are a complete meme. Road Life is actually decent now but still is outclassed by bringing a good medkit. Spine Chill went from worthless to decent, although I would rather just run Finesse or Resilience. Better Than New went from being awful to maybe being useful queueing with someone using boons (until they may nerf boons too apparently). Small Game was terrible and now is decent because it gives you the functionality of a map with a purple addon, yippee!
I think they meant WoO and Stake Out to be side-grades, but I while I stopped using WoO a long time ago I would literally rather run Resilience or Finesse over WoO any day (same issue as Spine Chill because they're basically the same effect, very creative), and Stake Out can still be completely wasted on a heal, it's not even based on TR anymore so you have to be within a tiny 24m area for 15s for one stack, all for a 4% bonus that you could potentially still miss.
The only decent things survivors got, ironically, are Flow State and This Is Not Happening. I say ironically because, while Flow State's buff was a really nice change, This Is Not Happening just inflates the issue of Hyperfocus. They really should have just changed Hyperfocus, the actual problem, instead of Stake Out, because now this perk that is largely meant for new players can be combo'd with HF for an even more reliable genrush build on a decent player. The gen speeds in the PTB were insanity. And I 100% guarantee you there will be complaint after complaint about it and it will be removed before it goes live and we'll end up with only Flow State.
This update is giving me no reasons to keep playing survivor when the survivor experience has already been so miserable. I've already been playing way more killer than survivor, and I guess I'll keep doing that. Because we need killer queue times to be longer.
Comments
Yeah Agree with you.
I dont understand BHVR logic. It will just make more people who mainly play survivor like myself to just go play killer and add to the que times.
Yeah, it's tough because some of the changes I think are still good. In the list, all the perks from Blood Pact all the way down to This Is Not Happening are good changes (although again, HF needs to be changed). But it really seems like the focus for survivor perks was QoL and making meme perks less of a troll while the killer perk focus was making weak perks strong.
And honestly, when they said they'll be changing some "problematic perks" that incentivize unhealthy play styles, my first thoughts were perks like Infectious and Forced Hesitation, but no apparently Windows of Opportunity was problematic lmao.
While I agree with lack of changes I think you overrate TINH + H combo. The thing strong about hyperfocus was that it was additive %. Meaning as long as you kept hitting great skill checks which I did and had at least one stack of SO you could get 3.8 % per 6+ token every time you hit great and to defend hyperfocus it's very high skill ceiling perk that rarely anyone ever can be used to it's max potential. Current hyperfocus will be 2.8 % so while hitting greats with TINH will be slightly easier if you can't hit fast skill checks on 5+ token the combo will barely give you meaningfull progress to waste two perkslots for this. So in the result Hyperfocus + SO was much better % wise than H + TINH and you can call me genrusher but if you can't hit greats on higher amount of tokens without TINH you won't be able with TINH either. So in the end you won't be able to do gens as quickly as you are now, which is nerf to gen speed and will be welcomed. And as killer main I never blamed anyone for running H+ SO as my solo q teams don't do gens half the match.
Havent tried new stakeout myself but 4% per skill check on anything you are skillchecking still seems kinda nice, like having passive bardic inspiration with a roll over 10 whichout having to do the animation. (Unless the "special skill checks" are tough to hit, havent seen them yet)
The special skill checks are basically like DS. They're not hard, but if you got a stack and get on a gen without realizing it could screw you over. The tokens can also still be wasted on healing (and 4% on a heal is infinitely less valuable than on a gen). In addition to all that, you have to be within the killers TR but also within 24m of them for 15s just for one stack. So it has the same weakness as before where Undetectable counters it, and yet you also have to be even closer to the killer and can't get stacks off "fake" terror radiuses. In my time trying it, it's been a waste of a perk slot.
Saw your comment on another thread though, congrats on the Better Than New buff! It's certainly one of the nicer changes.
Overall this whole thing feels like they started with killer complaints and improvements and then by the time they got to looking at survivor focused improvements they were up against the PTB deadline so they rushed some number updates so survivors at least got something other than a bunch of nerfs. Either that or they legitimately only listen to killer players and content creators.
Even the dev notes sound forgiving to killers and hostile to survivors. Survivor perks synergizing with each other is apparently a big problem and 'limiting design space' meanwhile killer perks synergizing with each other, killer powers, or killer add-ons is fun and adding variety. In the few instances where killers did get a nerf to a perk working with their power, like with Dissolution/Feral Frenzy, their dev note language is super soft like they need to coddle them into accepting the nerf.
Overall no real new builds for survivors to try out while a couple existing survivor builds got nuked. All this while killers are getting handed a bunch of new toys while they're already performing well. Enjoy your queue time folks - you've earned it.
Yeah I'm really not sure what they were thinking. It's hard because I want updates like this to be reoccurring because there are so many perks that need love, and having a huge perk update like this is a great thing and I want to encourage the devs that it is a great thing. But at the very least, this go of it was a pretty big flop for survivors. We got a few decent buffs to make some bad perks usable to make up for the fact that several perks are getting nerfed hard while killers got genuinely interesting and powerful perk updates.
I wouldn't be so upset if it weren't for the fact that the last several patches have all been very killer sided as well. The new killers are all extremely strong or giga buffed to be extremely strong, the previous perk changes hit survivors infinitely harder, and the last perk survivors were genuinely excited about was Cross-Examination which got nerfed to the ground. But hey, at least in the last few months we got Lend A Hand and Wide Open Throttle which are okay / gimmicky fun.
I have no clue how you get stakeout as trash when you get to just obliterate 16% of a gen if you're good at hitting skill checks, perk is scary now. I also don't know how the Windows change is a nerf if you're a good player. Vault speed is extremely valuable and if you can make sure you have a pallet to vault for finesse and just alternate cool downs the killer is going to have a tough time catching you so I see it as a buff.
Slippery Meat again is a subtle effect but is honestly pretty good it basically means the killer can't really stop a person from unhooking you. I would like to see the speed buff go to 10% because of DR the current buff is really 2.5% so I'd like to actually get the 5% extra speed.
Also different issue but no clue how you categorized some of these killer buffs like insidious is still mostly a meme (I promise you killers don't wanna play red light green light for some stealth) and you're heavily underestimating how insane Dark Arrogance is now. Just having 5 stacks of STBFL at all times is nuts when you can stack it with actual STBFL and Rapid Brutality for effectively a max of 14 stacks of STBFL.
I will say I would've liked for BHVR to explore more survivor playstyles with this patch since vault speed is really the only new build that comes from this otherwise it's small boon buffs, small chest buffs (which are a meme anyway), and skill check builds which I think are good now but not particularly exciting to me.
Have you tried using Stake Out on the PTB? It's incredibly difficult to get value out of. As I said in my response to @ShanoaLegendaryPlz The tokens can easily be wasted on healing (and 4% on a heal is infinitely less valuable than on a gen). In addition to that, you have to be within the killers TR but also within 24m of them for 15s just for one stack. So it has the same weakness as before where Undetectable counters it, and yet you also have to be even closer to the killer and can't get stacks off "fake" terror radiuses. In my time trying it, it's been a waste of a perk slot, and half the times I even managed to get a stack I had to heal and it got wasted.
I categorized WoO as a nerf because it wasn't used as a power perk like Finesse or SB, it was used as a solo queue, beginner and comfort perk. No perk combo now can give you the same effect, they all have cooldowns or conditions. The vault speed technically makes it better for more experienced players, but because it goes on cooldown and only applies to windows, the fact that it works at any health state just isn't worth it over 20% vault speed from Finesse on both pallets and windows while healthy, or a similar 9% vault speed from Resi on both pallets and windows with no cooldowns while injured. Unfortunately Spine Chill is much worse, usually activating while the killer is still 40m away and putting your perk into cooldown before you even get the chance to use it.
Slippery Meat I don't think is trash or anything, but it's not that great. For personal anti-tunnel perks DS remains the only decent way to protect yourself.
Insidious I thought was going to be about the same, but because it gives you Undetectable on command it is insane with killers like Bubba. It might not be as powerful if all the survivors are on comms, but against your average lobby, especially with info perks to know when to use it, getting Undetectable on command can get you many free downs. I haven't played with Dark Arrogance myself yet, but I categorized it simply as "buff" because I already thought it was a big buff, although the downside is a bit worse. Of course combining it with STBFL causes diminished returns, so it really gives you what would be 10.5 stacks of STBFL at full stacks.
yeah bhvr have been bending over backwards for killer content creators so these changes aren’t a surprise. survivors just keep getting the short end of the stick.
I will say 1 part of stakeout that is definitely a nerf is that i also used to use stakeout as a filler perk just to max out points easier by filling up the categories with great skill checks, so it was also a decent bloodpoints perk. Unless it still gives you the same amount of points as great skillchecks now?
Oh well, obviously, it’s important to listen to the complaints of full-time content creators with 15k hours who can’t manage to get 4k for the 271st match in a row, forcing them to lower their kill rate from 82% to 81%; the problem is that they’ve forgotten to wipe the drool from their tongues.
These patch notes are truly deplorable.