Dino7281
Dino7281
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728499#Comment_2728499
Hahaha "at tournament level it's evenly balanced" 😂
Yeah the level where survivor get handicapped by perk selection and restrictions.
That's where it's balanced 😂
When the survivor and killer player are both tournament level skilled but the former get handicapped as to not to steamroll the latter. And those killers still have to rely on some form of camping and/or tunneling.
Sadly (assuming a working matchmaking aka same skilled survivor and killer players) in public lobbies there isn't any handicap.
There was a tournament where everything was allowed, he talks about that.
He used wrong data as always, but if balance = 2k, then it was balanced. Problem is that it was balanced only for 2 killers out of 26...
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728502#Comment_2728502
I can't get over the fact that somebody legitimately made up a conspiracy theory to justify that otz could ever believe the game wasn't survivor sided. This is next level.
Yeah, screw survivor/killer sided. Noone is going to throw dirt on Daddy Otz!
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@Tdbrown50 said:
Here’s how I roleplay my play style,Wraith just wants to watch tv and be left alone.Let those pesky survivors fix the gens so he can have power and just chill out.
Well, they are creating Toggle interactions, so it's not going to be that good.
They will no longer have to actually hold M1...
But your roleplay is actually really good. Poor Wraith just want to watch new season of The Witcher and those survivors are so slow at doing their job! Just give me power, so I can Netflix and Chill.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728495#Comment_2728495
Well I'm not losing that often but I still lose sometimes, I'm talking about the average kill rate. At this point people like Scott Jund and Otz think the game is at least balanced - killer sided. Scott made a video about how at tournament level it's evenly balanced.
This isn't to say that some killers shouldn't be buffed though, I think a lot of killers should like Trapper, Myers, Ghost Face, Bubba, etc, but the top tier killers like Nurse, Artist, Twins, etc., should be nerfed.
Also I really hate how people say that pallets and DH got buffed. They did not get buffed they became judged by the server which is the most even thing you could ask for. Previously it was literally judged by the killer's screen but now it's not. It was not buffed at all, it just works now.
It works now, well depends on your ping. I play with ping under 30 ms, which is good. So I really don't feel any validation is deserved for me. Well, I see it really often anyway. It's super frustrating to lose the game, because I got validated multiple times. It's not my fault we see different things, but I am the one punished for it.
I am not really sure about that "working" as it should. Thing is that it should be possible to use DH and get hit anyway (validated), but I wasn't able to get that effect at all, but it's really easy to get as a killer, which makes me think they just shifted an issue, instead fixing it for both sides.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728495#Comment_2728495
Well I'm not losing that often but I still lose sometimes, I'm talking about the average kill rate. At this point people like Scott Jund and Otz think the game is at least balanced - killer sided. Scott made a video about how at tournament level it's evenly balanced.
This isn't to say that some killers shouldn't be buffed though, I think a lot of killers should like Trapper, Myers, Ghost Face, Bubba, etc, but the top tier killers like Nurse, Artist, Twins, etc., should be nerfed.
Also I really hate how people say that pallets and DH got buffed. They did not get buffed they became judged by the server which is the most even thing you could ask for. Previously it was literally judged by the killer's screen but now it's not. It was not buffed at all, it just works now.
Did you just said Twins are top tier?
They already got nerfed hard and they are quite bad now. They have to be basically afk for 7 seconds after each down, unless they get option to slug, which got nerfed by boons a lot.
I am not sure about Artist, she got nerfed a lot before getting live.
Scott made a video about tournament where everything was allowed. Killers had average kill rate around 2,16, which is not bad for a tournament, that's true. Problem is that you can see kill rates are boosted. It's not between 0-4, it's between 1-4. Unless killer gives up, he will get 1k by camping in most games.
Here are data from that tournament:
@zarr said:
Over the last weekend, www.twitch.tv/Wwispy1 held a tournament in which every character, perk, item, add-on and offering was allowed. This makes it special because usually in tournaments there are a various restrictions for these things in place.
I have taken stats on a plethora of tournaments in the past, and every time without fail average kills settled slightly above 2. My experience with and analysis of tournament DbD has contributed to my opinion that the game is actually reasonably well-balanced at the top end, and to my understanding of why the game is statistically killer-sided in public matchmaking. Since killers can evidently compete even against survivor teams composed of some of the very best, most practiced players in the world that are also using voice communications (and do so in very efficient ways) and have highly coordinated loadouts, strategies and tactics, it is easier to understand why in the public matchmaking environment where only around 5% of the player pool even are 4-player SWF groups (of which even less use voice chat, and of which in turn only a tiny fraction is as skilled as tournament players, let alone as practiced and experienced as a team), killers overperform. I think in a scenario of a killer player facing four random survivor players (no voice communication, no prior coordination of builds, strategies or tactics) each equally as skilled and experienced as the killer player, the game is actually favouring killers. I would expect the average result to fall around 2.5 kills. Of course, different killer characters and maps affect things, but we know from public stats that none of them favour survivors universally (even the statistically weakest killer on the statistically strongest survivor map still averages above 2 kills), and so I would assume that scales into the theoretical realm of 5 completely equally skilled and experienced players facing off similarly to how the killer-leaning universal balance scales into the competitive realm. That is to say, I would expect most killers on most maps to still fall within a range of 2-2.5 kills.
One counter-argument against previous tournament stats is that there are various loadout restrictions in place for both roles. I have never taken real issue with that given that the loadouts in these tournament matches are still entirely comparable to those you will see in an average public match (if anything they are much more optimized), and argued that the overwhelming skill, experience, practice and coordination disparity would already more than make up for loadout differences compared to public teams anyway (meaning even with 10 Decisive Strikes the average public group would still not be anywhere near as competitive as these tournament teams are with their 1 Decisive Strike that they are usually allowed to have), but still, those restrictions do make the tournaments somewhat of an artificially balanced realm.
In the tournament I'm talking about now, all those restrictions were removed. So not only do you have some of the most skilled, experienced, practiced players in the world communicating with voice chat and coordinating their builds and plays, but they also get to use the most busted stuff, such as 4 Styptics/Syringes, multiple Brand New Parts, 4 Dead Hards and Decisive Strikes. This is a level of play and coordination and of sheer stacked loadouts that you will never see in public matchmaking. ...And yet, as the following stats show, the killers were absolutely able to compete.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D3QJSAMEUAP8/wispy-everything-allowed.png
So, we have an average of 2.16 kills, again as in all other tournaments a slightly killer-leaning result. We can see that 11 of the 30 matches ended in outright killer victories (3k, 4k), 13 in outright survivor victories (0k, 1k), and 6 in ties (2k). If we take into consideration that 3 times players decided to play non-S-tier killers (Pinhead, Huntress, Oni), we can say that outright victories are basically an exact split between both roles; in terms of kills, 40% of the time killers won, 40% survivors did, and 20% of the time they drew. That's a surprising level of balance given the ridiculous loadouts at play. It is also worth pointing out that killers overwhelmingly often lose less decisively than survivors, which is to say when the killer loses they usually at least still kill 1 survivor (of 13 losses, 12 (92%) were 1 kill losses), while survivors most of the time lose with 0 escapes rather than 1 (of 11 losses, only 3 (27%) saw 1 survivor escape).
Another argument people may have even if they accept the statistical fact that the game is balanced at the top end in terms of kills, is that it is not balanced in terms of hooks. I unfortunately did not count the actual amount of hooks while watching the matches, but I believe that hook stages can still be used to draw reasonable conclusions in that regard. So, if we assume the typical "the killer can just tunnel one survivor to death and then facecamp a second survivor in the endgame to achieve a "balanced" result of 2 kills" scenario that is often brought up to argue that an outcome of 2 kills does not necessarily mean the match was "balanced" in a "healthy" way, we would expect 6 stages to be the dominant result. Looking at the stats, we can see that of 30 matches, only 6 ended in 6 stages, or one fifth/20%. 22 matches ended with at least 7 stages, meaning 73% of matches were killer victories in terms of hook stages, and they were not achieved simply by tunnelling one and camping another survivor. This is also obvious by looking at the fact that none of the 6 2k matches ended in 6 stages, all of them had more. In fact, as you can see further at the bottom of the stat sheet, the perk No Way Out was used in 66% of the matches, and it obviously encourages spreading out your hooks on all survivors. On the flipside, only 2 matches ended with less than 6 stages, a mere ~7%. It is therefore obvious that in terms of hook stages (and in deduction hooks) the game leans even more toward killers.
Now it of course has to be noted that this goes for Nurse, Blight and Spirit, players didn't usually pick other killers for obvious reasons. Either way, at least those three can provably more than compete with even the absolute best that a survivor side can put up (which is way beyond what any public group ever will). This is something that surprised even myself. I always knew the game was much more balanced than many people make it out to be, and tournament results have always supported that, but I did still believe that given the ability to use the absolutely most stacked loadouts of multiple purple med-kits with Styptics, multiple BNP, 4 DS, etc., average kills would at the very least be slightly below 2 rather than still slightly above. Pretty crazy honestly.
In other tournaments even various of the other killers average out around 2 kills and 6-8 stages with 4-kill matches absolutely being possible, but tournaments do show that only roughly half of the killers are viable at the highest level, with only Nurse, Blight and Spirit viable enough to consistently be able to 4k, Twins being a close contender. It also has to be noted that the map pool in this tournament was limited, and although it included Wreckers' Yard, Dead Dawg Saloon, Rancid Abattoir and Gas Heaven which with few exceptions represent the state of balance of most maps in this game, I do think there are more survivor-favouring maps than killer-favouring maps overall. A variety of killers deserve buffs, a variety of maps should be further adjusted. But those buffs and adjustments are not strictly necessary from a public matchmaking perspective - not only can killer players simply choose to play S-tier killers every single time if they so desire, but good killer players win the majority of their pub matches even with the lowest-tier killers. Public matchmaking even with MMR is simply not able to provide good killer players with equal opponents sufficiently consistently. But likewise, the weakest killers could all be buffed, the problematic maps all adjusted, without it all too negatively impacting public matchmaking balance either.
The perks used here tell some clear stories too. There are only 19 different survivor and 15 different killer perks in the total pool. That shows how limited the pool of the strongest perks in this game is - 34 out of a total 185 perks seeing use. Not only that, but if we look at how often the individual perks are being used, it becomes clear that it's really only a handful for either role that dominate: Dead Hard and Decisive Strike alone already make for almost half of all survivor perks used, with Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, Deliverance and Prove Thyself making up another ~40%. So almost 90% of all perks used for survivors consist of only 6 different ones. For killers it's similar, with Corrupt Intervention, Deadlock, No Way Out, Lethal Pursuer, Ruin and NOED being 6 perks combining for 86% of all perks used.
I do think a ton of perks should be buffed to get them to a level where they are even approachingly able to compete for slots with perks the likes of those mentioned, but I don't think that the limitedness of perk usage at the absolute top level is necessarily all too problematic. In games there always are a fairly limited amount of S-tier characters and items, and it's no different in DbD. Ideally there would be more for a more varied top-level meta, but in public matchmaking you can already get pretty creative with your loadouts without giving up much. However, the perks do tell us a bit about the gameplay and parts of it could be seen as problematic: The prevalence of DS, BT, Unbreakable and Deliverance show that camping, tunnelling and slugging are the most effective killing strategies that survivors have to combat. Maybe the game could be better if it was reworked to concentrate more strictly on getting as many hooks as possible rather than revolve around these strategies at the top end. On the killer side, Corrupt and Pursuer highlight that the early game is crucial for killers, they have to get pressure up as soon as possible. It could help to introduce an "early game collapse" phase after all, such as simply by blocking all generators until the first chase has begun. No Way Out and NOED on the other hand highlight the fact that killers are at a disadvantage in the endgame - healthy survivors hit with a basic attack can regularly make it to a gate even over large distances, and killers regularly cannot defend gates unless they happen to spawn within close proximity of one another. I personally would not be opposed to the idea of having NOED be a basekit mechanic, without the movement speed boost, giving survivors a totem counter at base at the same time. To bring Nurse and Spirit in line with a NOED basekit reality, I think making Lethal Blink hits and Grudge hits not count as basic hits would be a welcome adjustment (it would be even without basekit NOED).
Some other notes: No Way Out's popularity shows that even the best killer players expect to get into an endgame scenario regularly in even matches. I think there has to be a change in mentality of players to not consider a game lost just because all generators have been completed. Given a desired goal of 2 kills and 2 escapes, a balanced match obviously has to see all generators get finished. Not only that, but since killers can almost always all but guarantee 1 kill in the endgame, a balanced match much of the time is expected to see all generators get finished with at least 3 survivors still alive at that point. Food for thought.
I was surprised that Circle Of Healing didn't see more play. It goes to show that other perks are more valuable if you just bring a med-kit. The standard build for most teams was: 4 DS, 4 DH, 2 BT, 2 Deliverance, 2 Unbreakable, 2 Prove Thyself, with everything else being "tech" variations, and Circle not even being a popular tech (only brought in for 3 matches of the 30).
The problematic add-ons are definitely still problematic: Nurse's range add-ons, Spirit's Mother-Daughter Ring, Blight's Alchemist Ring, Brand New Parts, Styptics, Syringes - these are all blatantly overtuned, and particularly the survivors' ability to bring 4 overtuned add-ons is ridiculous. I would even say it's precisely the ability to bring multiple that makes them a problem - if random survivors only bring 1-2 of these (which is already fairly rare), their impact potential is mostly alright. I think SWF groups should have perk and item limitations in place, such that they can only bring any perk or item/add-on at most 1 time. The killer add-ons should simply be rebalanced.
Moris are still the most balance-relevant offering in the game. Without map offerings, survivors in this tournament usually burned Petrified Oaks, and their impact on the matches was moderate at most. The Ebony Memento Moris that killers usually burned on the other hand consistently made much more of a difference. Bypassing any and all rescue mechanics (DS, bodyblock and sabo plays, pallet and flashlight saves) as well as saving time and holding positions particularly in the endgame turned out to be crucial at various points in these matches. That said, I still think moris are in a fairly good spot now.
Final note: The finals of the tournament are actually still to be played out. They will happen next weekend, so keep on eye out on the stream I linked.
Problem is that he didn't track actual hooks, but hook stages instead, so we can't reallly prove how much camping was done here.
Anyway, there is something interesting to see. Only viable killers there are Blight and Nurse. Spirit always got only 1k.
This game is balanced for 2 killers. I hate seing posts about this game is killer-sided / survivor-sided. You can't make arguments about killer-sided at all. Is this game killer-sided for a clown? Hell no. You have lot of killers and only few are viable. There are 2 killers viable for highest level. There is more for average, but you still have lot of killers that are not viable even for that.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728482#Comment_2728482
These stats are for all ranks, including babies who just started the game, not the average experienced player who we should be assuming we're talking about. That basically mirrors the old stats that were for ALL players so we can assume it has not actually changed.
Also like 5 new killer meta perks came out in the last year alone. Literally the only new meta perk for survivor that has come out since basically launch is possibly CoH. Even then it has so many downsides I'd hardly call it meta.
Interesting, most players agree that higher MMR is more survivor sided. But you are unique I guess and manage to be in high MMR and losing anyway. It doesn't change a fact that your data is pulled from your ass. This is average. If you want to talk about high MMR, you can watch tournaments. Killers are happy to get 2ks most of the times. Only top 3 killers, well maybe 2 now (I forgot about Spirit nerf to mention) are viable there, any other killer will get his ass kicked. Survivors are super limited on most tournaments.
So it's not about nerfs, it's about new things now. Alright, changing a lot. Well, Overcome is actually really strong perk combined with healing perks too. Killers got some good, some terrible. No #########. Nothing they got was level of CoH or MoM.
Let's not forget some survivors perks got buffed. Built to last, Vigil, WoO are quite good now. And best thing you got, a ######### validation for pallets and DH.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728473#Comment_2728473
I've also escaped through the exit gates against players with the top stats in the world and a couple top streamers. I flattened a killer who was top 30 in most sacrifices in the world so no I am not bad, I can assure you I am more experienced than you are.
So you basically just said. Hey I can escape against best killers in the world, but survivors are weak. So it's just you who is amazing, right? :D
Something smells fishy here a lot... ^^
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728473#Comment_2728473
No most of the killers in high ranks have a 60%+ kill rate. Freddy even has as high as 75%. Killers have also gotten nothing but buffs and survivors have gotten almost all nerfs the last few years so we can assume it's much higher now.
Damn, someone is running on old data :D
Freddy had high kill rate before all those nerfs, addon pass that destroyed most of his addons and BT rework. His kill rate and pick rate is most likely in ######### now.
This is kill rate from September. There wasn't released any other since, but someone can feel free to share newer version.
Only survivors got nerfed recently? Hmm.
BT was more a buff, pop got nerfed, undying got nerfed, Cenobite get nerfed, Twins got nerfed, Deathslinger got nerfed, Fredddy got nerfed.
You got CoH that makes this game even more easy.
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It's not really about SWF that much.
You got my ass kicked just because I was unlucky and got 4 good solo players.
I don't think strongest thing about SWF is being able to share info. It's good for sure, but best thing playing SWF is that you can choose your teammates and you just skip match-making.
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@gendoss said:
Or just play the game normally and get a 75% kill rate handed to you like the average killer.
Ha, Random number to prove my point go!
Yeah, there is no killer with average kill rate higher than 60%. Writing random things will not get you anywhere....
So you can try to say that Otz and other streamers have higher kill rates. Well, those are not average, are they? I can also say exactly same about good survivors. Oracle are going to get 4 escape against almost anyone.
@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728471#Comment_2728471
I'm guessing your MMR is very low and you're only going against baby killers because in that case yes, the game is easy when you're going against easy killers(?)
Wow, didn't seen this one in while. It's usually used more by killer mains. Well, yay for equality I guess :D
Maybe you are just bad and can't win against even bad killers? The game is hard when you're being terrible player(?)
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728468#Comment_2728468
No, Survivors want a balanced game. It's not fun to just win every single time in the same way it's not fun for killers to win every single time. Survivors have been on the short side of the win rate for years and years now and we just want some balance.
I guess you play different survivors than I do...
Unless you tell me that you play soloQ only, you probably just suck at it. Survivors are easy mode if you play SWF.
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I am actually happy about that change. I have talked about this issue some time ago.
With old ranks if you didn't play for two months, you got from rank 1 to rank 10. MMR didn't have that. You just get worse if you don't play, it's normal and SBMM should count that.
I have not played for several months and whenever I tried to start playing again, I just found out my old mains are unplayable for me.
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@TheMadCat said:
How you would be paired with other players without SBMM? I'm genuinely asking because you didn't precise.
RNG festival.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726705#Comment_2726705
To be honest, I never understood why Deathslinger didn't down if survivors were still in deep wounds. It never made sense to me to begin with. You are getting shot by a giant ######### off spear, you can't just walk that off. As I said in the comment that you quoted, I don't think Deathslingers ADS should be as long as it is, I feel like it should be more responsive of a power than it is currently. And as a huntress main that really loves to do trick shots, I can tell you a bigger hitbox is not always better.
I could also reasonably see buffing deathslingers reload timer, as just making him slightly more time efficient that way could do wonders for him overall by considerably shortening chases over the duration of a match.
My main problem is ADS mechanic. He gets lower sensitivity (turning speed) and lower FOV.
I could live with longer ADS if it didn't feel like ######### to use. It wasn't an issue before, because of quick-scope. You didn't actually used ADS at all before.
It's bad to use when survivors are close to you, because you are slow and can't see anything and it's bad to use on long range, because you have slow ADS + travel time of your spear.
Before it was about prediction from survivors, you can just react to it now. I hate using zoning, it's boring, but you are kinda forced to it now, which is sad imo.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2707695#Comment_2707695
I don't really DC I kill myself on hook it would be dumb to dc when there are penaltys
Damn, so lose lose. You are still useless and your teammates suffer. SoloQ is not really bad, because of the game or killers, it's just bad because of people like you.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
No offense to Otz, but this video feels so redundant.
Everything he said could summed up in DBD is heavily RNG-based. First, because the survivor has no idea what killer they are facing, so their loadouts could go one way or another (I.E. Bringing healing perks against Plague/Legion), and on killer side you could opt to not bring any slow down perks and survivors all bring BNPS with prove thyself etc.
I don't understand why people are still under the belief that just because you wanna vibe in a match, your opponent has to also. Certainly I understand that sometimes some things are unfun and others are just unbalanced, but the fact of the matter is that players can play how they feel they want to regardless of the odds being with or against them.
He has a good point in ending.
Don't complain about side, complain about main issue that is stopping you from enjoying this game.
But otherwise you, those results are nothing unexpected.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
Vastly overpowered. Outclasses every other healing perk in the game on top of forcing a killer to spend time to deal with it. Singlehandedly nerfs hag and twins.
and Wraith.
I didn't expect it, but Legion really don't like it too.
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Hate it. One of the reasons why I stopped playing.
It destroyed playstyle I enjoyed most (hit&run), it was possible with medkits before, but I could use frenklyn's against that. Now you have that effect just because one survivor is using 1 perk that affects every other survivor....
So I am forced to boring playstyle and just commit to everything, knowing that if I drop that chase, it basically didn't happen. I just don't enjoy that, so I stopped.
Know when to drop chase was big part of killer's skill and CoH basically removed that.
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@Sludge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727609#Comment_2727609
Yeah, he admits he plays as scummy as possible to get the wins... like no ######### bruh?
Yeah, so when you take someone with more hours than whole other team combined, let him used best possible build with best possible addons with most scummy playstyle to win, he is going to win a lot... wow, so unexpected.
I love Otz, but this was kinda weird imo.
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CoH should not be treated as boon issue. It's CoH issue, it's self-healing issue, it's healing speed issue. CoH should not be nerfed as boon, it should be nerfed as single perk.
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So this game is good for a killer when you use nuclearn option each game and you tunnel/camp whenever you can (best situation for it).
No #########
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724491#Comment_2724491
Yes, those things suck. But removing the DC penalty results in a situation where someone DCs the second they decide they don't like the killer you are playing, get downed early etc. When the penalty is off, this game is even more miserable.
If you DC occasionally, but play most of your matches out you'll never get a penalty. I never have - not once. If the majority of your games are this unpleasant, then I'm not sure how you can also say 'I enjoy this game'.
If the enemy team is stalling the game out/taking it hostage, just alt+Tab and get a drink. Otherwise - play it out.
A few things:
- Yes, killer can be very frustrating and toxic survivors make it worse. However, the solution isn't to punish everyone.
- Losing an early gen or two is pretty expected on some maps. Often though, once you get your first hook you can translate that into a snowball and regain control of the game.
- If need be, stake out a 3-4gen and control that area. You might not win, but it's your best option.
- On the other hand, if you do get early hooks that usually translates into a snowball in your favor. That's just the nature of this game - it's snowbally.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724493#Comment_2724493
Which is why a lot of people have suggested a 'concede' option for killer. However, this has to be balanced against not letting people smurf.
Scott made version of this.
You just have to limit when killer can do it.
Like 5 minutes and only 1-2 hooks etc. just state where killer is 99% screwed. But it can't be used in first minute to lose fast.
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Losing the game with 2 hooks total. Uff, glad I didn't lost, right?
Insane grind is not really good thing either.
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@BlighTown said:
They nerfed Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time multiple times, same with other exhaustion perks.
But why do they refuse to nerf Dead Hard? I'll never know.
Last change was more buff for BT...
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726711#Comment_2726711
If they body block you, you can hit them, you know right?
Oh, right. That is so effective while they have BT, right? And even when I down them, it's so good when they have DS right?
And you would want to give all that basekit, yay. balanced
Survivors can unhook in front of killer. No perks needed, always ready for game to fix their mistake...
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@iThe1One said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726709#Comment_2726709
You'll eventually run out of pallets, you can't drop pallets for 1-2 minutes like a good shack loop/jungle gym can last, plus chasing people that drop pallets and run is more fun for the killer than just running around a frustrating piece of scenery for 1-2 minutes.
Not really, you will be 110% without range, so hold W will be super effective.
I will just have to make sure that I am not around pallet long enough to give you hit from that speed boost.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726650#Comment_2726650
DS and BT are only strong against camping/tunneling killers. If you aren't doing those things you most likely wont even know the perks are there.
Oh right, because survivors are definetly not going to bodyblock you, right? They would never use free perks like that to annoy the killer.
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@iThe1One said:
I wonder how the game would play out if a new 4.4m/s killer would be added BUT if he stays more than 10 seconds around a pallet/window he becomes a 4.7m/s killer, he can see the radius of that activation area around pallets/windows and will lose said bonus after 1 second of leaving said area.
I would show you the mighty power of Hold W and predrop pallets.
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I love build with Devour Hope + Lifeguard Whistle..
Don't really care if survivors don't like it. They don't care about me either, so it's fair.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723576#Comment_2723576
I didn't agree with the stridor change at all, especially since they would have KNOWN that the spirit changes were coming down the pipeline as well. I still disagree entirely with how it continues to work today, leaving Iron Will with no killer counter except for Plague or Nemesis.
The smaller hitbox of Deathslingers shots means he can also accurately commit to shots that Huntress cannot pull off. Also last time I checked, Huntress doesn't have iri heads anymore for the easy downs. I also disagree with how long his ADS is, it feels clunky and needs to be reduced by a fraction. So that its use its smoother, but doesn't necessarily allow for a pure quick scope playstyle. Similar to Huntress with wind up speed and throw cooldown.
Similiar to huntress? Ok, what about limitations what Deathslinger has over her?
Let him have infinite range?
Let him down over pallet / far windows?
Let him reload after several shots?
Deathslinger is limited to his power more than huntress. Smaller hitbox had one advantage and that was shooting through gaps, but that is just not possible with longer ADS. Bigger hitbox is just better and it's easier to use.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726513#Comment_2726513
You and I are share the same viewpoint, but I believe you think we are opposed. I don't WANT Victor nerfed. I want them to not feel clunky. Like I said, this idea is lame from a killer point of view because it makes Twins' slowball rubbish in return. But I don't see any other way of buffing Twins without people complaining. It was just an idea anyway, i think letting people switch in the cooldown rather than waiting 8 seconds as of the latest patch is a much more fluid idea.
Also other survivors wouldn't be able to remove Victor, only the person on the ground (would probably take as much time as regularly crushing Victor. So technically this would be a buff if two survivors are next to each other, since instead of the second teammate kicking Victor they have to wait for the pinned survivor to fight him off.
The main point is that no matter where Charlotte is, she would be able to reach and hook the survivor, especially with 8 seconds of cooldown removed, and 8 seconds before the survivor can start being healed off the floor, not to mention the survivor wouldn't even be able to crawl.
If you would make it that Twins can swap even during fatigue, then it would be exactly same for survivors. Still lot of time to crush Victor, but it wouldn't feel as bad for Twins.
Right now, twins are basically punished for not slugging. If you make it better option to swap instead continue chaining hits, it will be better for both sides. But it would be bad to completely remove option to slug from Twins.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726534#Comment_2726534
Either Corrupt/Deadlock base or longer base gen times. It's either/or. Otherwise they'll keep flying.
better spawns would help and they would be less boring / annoying for survivors.
Right now you have situations where survivors spawn next to different gens. If they spawned always on same side of the map and not exactly next to gen, it would help a lot.
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@adam1233467 said:
Did you guys noticed with this recent nerfs, Wraith, Deathslinger, Twins, are just bc survivors didn't like them? I literally don't understand BHVR sometimes, get rid with things that is boting to killer they can't right, nerf dh? Nah
I could live with that, if it was done right.
Give compensations so that killer is not actually worse and adjust killer, so they are not clumsy.
They just failed at that. But they fixed it for survivors, when noone plays them...
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725391#Comment_2725391
Even though he was fun. Probably the most engaging killer at the time who also happened to be strong. Teleporting to gens, having slowdown mid-chase, the dreamworld mechanic. Look what they've done to him now.
I think it was overkill. They should have just do better add-ons pass to remove forever Freddy and reworked BT would be fine imo. I would be fine with that buffed clock mechanic too.
They did same with Deathslinger. Instead of doing small changes, they just nerf killer to the ground so survivors don't have to deal with it.
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I want two things to be happy.
-Let me swap during fatigue. You have to wait 5 seconds + slow duration after each down and it's just super annoying. You are basically punished for not slugging.
-Let Victor snuff boon totems. Boons are super annoying for twins and it's that Victor can't do anything about that. He is basically second killer, so I think he should be able to do it and it wouldn't really be broken.
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Normally, bringing killer to hooked survivor is bad idea and it should be punished by a killer. It's just a miss-play from chased survivor.
Your change actually rewards survivors for doing this.
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@Gazel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725723#Comment_2725723
Yeah, anyway. This game and his community are getting worst and worst with time.
Said the guy that would want to leave teammates...
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I think arguments about fun are way better than arguments about balance sided rants.
Can killer win against most survivors? Yes
But that doesn't apply to all killers. Weaker killers still need buffs.
Is it fun? Not really
It's stressful af and usually unfun.
If you want to have fun, there will be ######### tons of escapes. Issue is that it's not going to be rewarded by survivor's reactions. You are going to eat lots of toxic reactions for playing fair.
Hey, I have let them recover, so game is longer. They escape and wait in exit gate just to teabag. Yay, so nice...
And you have no idea how much frustrating is it to lose the game just because you got validated multiple times and it's because of survivor's high ping.
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Looking at Deathslinger, Freddy
So it's not about fun now... Well, someone should told them this earlier.
Or is it only about survivor's fun?
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Corrupt + Deadlock base would be so annoying.
DS + BT would be also super annoying. You would actually have to remove option to body-block killer for protection hits. Survivors would always go for it, at that point it's not about tunneling, you might want to chase different survivors, but they are going to abuse your free perks and annoy you as much as possible.
You complain about things that are optional. Not everyone is doing this.
Your changes would make every game worse, because it's not a choice anymore.
Base DS would also create more slugging and survivors would cry about slugging and here we go again.
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The more I play survivor the more I realize how much time we waste in queues.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2726437#Comment_2726437
I actually thought of another idea where if Victor pounces an injured survivor, instead of downing them, he pins them to the ground. While a survivor is pinned:
- the surv's bleed timer wouldn't go down, but the survivor has to throw him off before they can start recovering or be healed by a teammate.
- Charlotte would have no wake up cooldown when switching back from Victor's pin.
These two changes would make it so Victor can't slug and snowball, but he would also be able to keep a survivor down long enough for Charlotte to hook them.
This would nerf them so ######### hard.
You basically would never be able to snowball, because you will be force to stop after each down instead of getting extra hit on nearby survivor.
Down long enough? That means what? 20 seconds? good luck on Raccoon city or other huge / multilayer maps. More? I am going to leave you there and pressure other survivors instead. Survivors can remove Victor? Team-up and Twins are useless just M1 killer without power.
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Didn't they try weaker version of this that only slowed timer?
And survivors forced killer to chase around hooked survivors to gain time and from what I know, it just didn't end well.
Your version would make this even more broken.
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Hell yes, that is probably main change that should happen.
Do you think it would be too good if Victor could snuff boons? Thing is that boons are really annoying for Twins, mainly because Victor can't snuff them...
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I would use it for every perk like Surge, Frenklyn's etc. except Exposed status perks.
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It's not rocket science, but it's not easy either.
Problem is how long it takes them to do any changes.
I mean, change a number (Trapper, Huntress) takes several months/years? Really?
Just do more small changes (numbers), no need for whole mechanic every patch and see what is going to happen. Use PTB more just to test things.
But they wait for months and create overkill changes instead (Deathsligner), they would do it with Spirit too, but they failed with code, which kinda saved her.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Nah, if it was the same, it wouldn't trigger the vocal community as hard and long as it did... Um... Still does?
I don't think it's same, but it's not better either.
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RIP Deathslinger tho. I miss my old man...
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2724671#Comment_2724671
I feel like giving killers some QoL improvements would make Nurse over the top which would be terrible. I guess I don’t want her nerfed to the ground but I just don’t know what to do with her.
Depends what QoL improvements you have in mind.
I mean, if you change loops etc. she doesn't care.
You could actually do it in a way to nerf her and just make more tall loops, so it's easier to break line of sight.
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If you think that Deathslinger is same as before, then you know nothing about him and you just can't convince me that you played more than ten games with him.