Deadeye
Deadeye
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@xillucide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1653903#Comment_1653903
sometimes there's literally no other choice, especially on a map like Ormond. this game is completely random, you may never run into this issue in a game due to good survivors or you may run into it constantly due to immersed survivors. that's why it's an issue with the maps, not really pgtw or decision making. for now im labeling it as an issue with pgtw until those maps are fixed.
You have the choice to not use Pop in that case... the 20 sec regression you apply is not worth walking 44sec over the map to do exactly nothing else, while probably multiple gens get progressed by 44 sec. It is even sometimes more valuable to ignore Pop right after the hook with a 50% gen next to you, when you can go directly into chase with a survivor next to you. As said before, that is decision making.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Otz often makes good points but sometimes he gives off the impression that he's trying too hard to appeal to the community, telling them what they want to hear.
Moris - I still don't think people will be happy. Their line of thinking will be "well I wasn't hooked twice why should I be mori'd?" Not to mention the 4th survivor hooked will be the one who gets killed immediately off hook which is another major complaint.
The Iridescent head change is fine but what's wrong with Pinky Finger? has anyone actually played Clown with it? it's hard to hit.
Here's how pinky finger plays out...
- Get up close behind survivor
- Carefully hold M2 lining up the shot
- Try to hit them with it, if you miss repeat until you land it
- M1 to instadown
So you have to get up close, carefully line up the shot and depending on the survivor movement may need more than one attempt at it...
How is that any different to Hillbilly's chainsaw? even Leatherface is similar to a degree.
I think people freak out about Pinky Finger because it radically changes The Clown but he's really not very different to a Hillbilly. He can handle loops better but doesn't have the traversal speed so they're about on par.
Tombstone piece - remove T3 forever, yeah I'm sure the survivor that got killed with the tombstone piece will appreciate the change. 🙄
Exhaustion add ons are fine. Considering how a tap of the E button can completely negate a well aimed shot by the Huntress player I don't think these are OP at all. Survivors are just desperate to have their no skill required ez chase extenders on demand.
Map offerings should be disabled regardless. Yeah it would stop some fun builds but map offerings are just used to radically change the balance and it's not fair. If anything I'd turn all existing map offerings into anti-map offerings. i.e. all my Ormond offerings become anti-ormond offerings so that when I use that the game loads any map but that one. No more picking the easy maps but getting rid of the maps that are really not fun for certain killers like nurse on lerys, wraith on azarov's etc etc
Making Spirit visible would kill her overnight and Executioner just got changes yet they're already talking about more.
I saw parts of the video yesterday and it just felt like Otz pandering to a chat full of DBD reddit users so I turned it off.
To your pinky finger statement: That was basically what Leatherface needed to do before the buff right? You could already land a lunge like 2 sec ago but need to wait to be able to rev the chainsaw, hoping the survivor doesnt get to a loop in the meantime.
Dont know, but ignoring your chase power to hope to get into attracting situations to get insta downs while most likely missing the opportunity for several hits doesnt sound that appealing to me. Surely still a strong addon, but definitely not that braindead ez insta down spamming like it is currently or how you make it sound like.
And the comparison to current Leatherface is not working that well, because he pretty much became a pallet smasher with the new numbers. You dont need to get into body contact with the survivor anymore to start revving, and Clown in the first place doesnt destroy pallets with bottles.
And I'm pretty sure that the inverted passive phasing wouldn't kill her. It depends on the frequency, and 2 or 3 short appearances, not even movements, are totally fine over 5 seconds. Add reduced appearances to her passive phasing addons, and everything is fine
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Nice, you say "love the mentality of yours" and all you do is rant about everyone that posts in this thread...
I guess you didn't really ask a question in your title, you already had your stiff answer and wanted attention?
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1654060#Comment_1654060
Oh no, I have to spend a few seconds walking instead of choosing between constant walking and wasting my SB? Whatever shall I do? The sky has fallen on my head. I am in agony.
Mindbreaker has always buffed SB. If the changes go live, that's exactly what I want.
You haven't answered my question. It is a problem and SB boost if the 0.5s exhaustion from SB is not set back to 5s. If it is, I'm not sure if you ever faced a situation against a mindbreaker killer that is heading for you. Having to get rid of 5s of exhaustion gives the killer a huge head start, and pushes you away from the gen earlier than necessary. If this is really not a problem for you, I guess you are one of those that simply waste a lot of SB potential.
Just as example: Many people just walk away from the killer until he is super close. I guess to bait a hit. But that is super easy to read and as easy to avoid as swinging at a Dead Hard in the open field. And just to show the waste in that case: When the killer sees you, and you walk away from him until he is in swing distance (let's say 5s) and THEN you use your SB, you gain the same distance as if you immediately run away with SB and afterwards decide to walk for 5s to let the killer catch up. And these 5s are wasted, no matter in which order you run/walk.
And tbh, if you use SB like that, I'm totally fine when you are not affected by Mindbreaker, you give me value for free
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@MadLordJack said:
As a Sprint Burst user, I love this change and appreciate the buff to myself. Please, all killers, run Mindbreaker in my trials. I promise it won't backfire.
Have you tested? I'm pretty sure you cannot keep the exhaustion at 0.5s but it will reset to 5s also when the exhaustion is not caused by the perk
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The pausing of exhaustion recovery was always part of the perk. It was just crap because of the 50% condition. They did not mention this change in the patch notes. I hope it is not a "bug", because this change makes the perk actually viable.
@YaiPa said:
totally not meta. there's no point in running mindbreaker over ruin+undying, over pop or over corrupt. Killer's meta is slowdown meta, there's no space for chase perks. Also, 5 seconds is nothing, since you can just recover the exhaustion as the killer approach or mid chase after a pallet stun, and the recovery stop it's not enough to make it meta, just really really niche.
I wouldn't call it meta either, but 5 seconds is a lot. Pallet break takes what, 2 seconds? So you need a good setup with tiles to get rid of 1 sec of your exhaustion, otherwise you wait at the pallet until it is broken, take the hit and still have half of the exhaustion left. You maybe underestimate 5 seconds during a chase. Also having to walk 5 seconds when you hear the TR allows the killer to approach 13m which he would not get without the perk, that is huge. You even get value out of this perk when you decide to let go of the gen to get the recovery, when the killer is not even heading towards you. Next to think of is stealth killers.
I think the removed 50% condition changes a lot. If you finish chases faster because exhaustion perks dont extend it, you don't have to rely on slowdown perks that much. OhTofu for example doesn't kick gens at all because he says chasing is better gen pressure, as long as you find them quickly enough.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651698#Comment_1651698
Perhaps my additional suggestion could be 50% slower recovery on cool downs and negative status effects?
Remember that these only apply in the TR, so the point is to encourage survivors to waste time running as far away from the killer as possible
Sure, but that doesn't work when you are hindered for an extra long amount of time for example ^_^ or when you rely on Second Wind getting ready in time while you are chased
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@SloppyKnockout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1649789#Comment_1649789
Much exaggeration here.
Not really. I take stats atm about hooking order of survivors. The first 50 games were brilliantly fine, the last week was horrible, ruining the stats
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651859#Comment_1651859
Can't Argue with that logic.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651952#Comment_1651952
Not making fun of you tho? Undying hasn't been out for 2 years so it can't be meta 2 years with ruin. Ruin stopped being hard meta for a while after it's changes. And now it's back because of Undying.
My bad, it was bubba who made fun of it.
And yeah, I corrected that "since 2 years". I'm pretty sure that means now 'within the last 2 years, Ruin + Undying is the most unfun meta to go against'. Nothing about how long this combo exists, just that in that time frame it is first placed
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To be precise, there are several factors that influence the decision, doing gen is just the most common thing.
Sometimes I don't do the first gen I see because these are normally gens at the outside of the map, which the killer is fine with when they are gone first. If I know the map well and know certain gens that are critical (like on the tube maps of MacMillan) then I try to observe this gen first if it is safe to do and pressure it.
With Inner Strength on, the first thing I do is checking typical totem spots near my spawning point and the first gen I do before touching the gen.
When the gen I spawn on is super unsafe and I don't have the fitting exhaustion perk to escape, I play safety first.
When spawning next to killer shack or in/near the main building, I check for the basement.
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@Axe said:
I could see a slight increase on it to 250% or so but its already strong imo so probaly not needed.
Ehm, no. 200% is already hardcore. If at all, increase the low tier effects. I still think, as long as Undying is at its current state, leave Ruin untouched. I even think Ruin needs no change at all. Pop is still good, Ruin is still good
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651535#Comment_1651535
How can something be meta for 2 years if it didn't exist?
Yay, thanks for making fun of a mistake instead of correcting me. "since 2 years"
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651698#Comment_1651698
Vigil new meta 🤣
(buff vigil to include all status effects)
Buff Vigil to make Exhaustion work like before nerf, wile running, and it will truly be Meta XD Just SprintBurst every 60 seconds
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Sounds good. Not sure yet if all three together (especially the "negative effects" part, as it would also target Broken from Second Wind or Legion addons, Hindered from Clown gas or Huntress addons etc. That could at least become a bit too strong in total
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I think there is no official time because sometimes (or often) there are issues or whatever to delay it.
Normally they release at 11 AM their timezone which is at 3 PM UTC. If you know your UTC time mod, add it.
Not 100% sure but I think BHVR is at Eastern Timezone (ET) which is UTC - 5
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1650281#Comment_1650281
Undying isn't out for 2 years tho
And still already meta with Ruin. And I don't get the point you want to make
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Totally depends on your style tbh. If you are not that good of a looper, you need some way of healing to have a decent chance of buying some time in chase. Also for Iron Will you need good map awareness and predict killer movement a bit. For example I like to run Premonition over SpineChill when I got it on Tier 3 because I tend to run into the killer when I don't have line of sight. Iron Will wouldn't help me out in these situations
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@xXCAM3R0NXx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1650078#Comment_1650078
But looping the killer well is what makes them tunnel or even face camp in the first place, because you're good survivor they don't wanna play with you so they just kill u out the game lol
What kind of insinuation is that? And what should be the counter to that? Loop bad? Also you can as well argue like "loop good and they leave you because there are easier targets to tunnel". Tunneling the best player in the team normally results in a loss. This post makes not really sense.
Another thing: I feel like you created a new post because the first one got so much attention. Because it also seems like you don't really noticed what has been posted on your first thread.
And just a rant about your points (even if many others have stated a lot of that already):
- never heard someone say "tunnel is a skill", and indeed tunnel is a strategy. you lose gen pressure early, but gain more gen pressure once the first person is dead. tunneling at the end is not really tunneling. Actually killing the one person is bad, you should just down them and try to get more survivors injured to keep the game running. Once your primary target is dead, the rest will just leave.
- it is also an insinuation that every killer wants at least a kill, there are enough people not caring about kills but about good chases, saying "gg, I beat up your ass but you all managed to escape anyway, well played"
- As said, tunneling is no skill, but not because "it's not unique to be able to hit the same person again". You indeed need skill if you manage to down someone 3 times. If you have no skill, you waste 5 gens on that person and he still escapes
- You are not necessarily a pro if you get a 4k with tunneling, but you at least did decent or had an inefficient i.e. easy team. Also the amount of skill in this scenario is not measured on the 4k, but on the gens left. Killing 4 people before a gen is done is pretty impressive, no matter which strategy you followed.
- If the unhooked person is the closest one to the killer, that's a survivor fail. If not, this has nothing to do with tunneling but with camping. And this is easier to punish from survivor side than tunneling.
- If a killer calls himself skillful, it is probably just a salty/ironic response to a "Tunneler!" kickoff in chat. But just guessing
To summarize, most of your points and argumentation pick out a specific scene or condition, ignoring the multiple factors or reasons that can lead to it. I actually don't even know what you want to say with this thread. Except that you don't want to hear "I'm skillful" from a killer.
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Ruin + Undying is the most boring (killer) meta for the last 2 years imo. No need for Ruin buff
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First, I'm retty sure you have no idea if someone is a killer main or not, I guess you just assume to give your argumentation more weight.
I never heard someone say it takes skill tbh. And if someone gives their best to tunnel and gets 0 hooks, he didnt tunnel at all. He commited to a chase. Everyone complains about tunneling for the most stupid reasons. Tunneling should normally not even be yelled when you get hooked twice in a row. Tunneling is when you die as quick as possible, ignoring other targets for the sake of a quick kill. And 0 hooks is far away from a kill...
And talking about this "original" form of tunneling, then it isn't the last resort, it is the first point on the agenda. And this is the style that sucks to go against. The "last resort" thing is the one noone should actually complain about, but there comes the entitlement. "We did so good, we deserve a 4 escape". Where people mark a game as "bad" because they died to tunneling. The 90% gg part is erased. Would be no problem if people just wouldn't define a game by escapes, then there would be way less complaining about tunneling
@DeviousDemo said:
So tell me again what is so skillful about gen rushing and abusing safe loops?
Whataboutism... not of any value regarding the discussion
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@Unicorn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1649862#Comment_1649862
I can agree to disagree. I’ve seen Killer plays that negate/contradict your post. Either way, like you agreed with me: Mori off the first hook is unfun and unfair, period. I’m not complaining about dying, I’m sure my S/D ratio is garbage and I’m okay with that. I just want points and being Mori’d off first hook prevents that and pipping.
What exactly do you mean? That there are killers that play like crap and get the unfun 4k? That does not contradict my post, all I said was, you throw games that can be fun because you are not willing to give it a chance. Otherwise explain what you mean.
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Will still never be picked. The 50% gen condition is making this perk
totally95% useless, mindbreaker is waaay to weak to replace any other choice -
@Godot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1649789#Comment_1649789
If you get upset over people trying to have fun but failing to do so because of this absurd community, then I think you're the one in the wrong here. But that's just me, don't worry about what I think.
I do agree that DCing upon first hit/down is stupid. Everything else I said? Completely fair, if they're literally struggling to play the game normally for more than 5 seconds.
That's the entitlement speaking out of you I guess. And when you speak of absurd community, do you include yourself with this attitude?
So t-baggin prevents you from playing normal? Besides that I escaped against enough Spirits, Nurses and Iri Huntress, as well as 4k-ing 4-SWF with object and whatelse on the list. Running this crap doesn't mean the player is capable of using it.But if you want to throw before you find out, it's your choice, and your problem to deal with the feedback. It is still always possible to get 3 gens done to allow a hatch escape for at least 1 person, probably even finding a key for more than that. But hey, not everyone likes to experience an outplay like that
@Unicorn said:
Getting Mori’d off the first hook is not fair, nor fun. Until they make the requirements to kill a Survivor with Mori a tad bit more difficult I don’t see DC’ing stopping. Also, Keys are not fun to go again yes, but those at least require some work on the Survivors end. They actually have to do gens to get hatch to appear (unless of course people DC/they are the last Survivor)
The minimum for an early hatch escape is 3 gens, which is 60% of the objective. Being able to mori someone means to down someone twice, 66% of the objective. People forget about that. Agreed that mori off the hook is still no fun, but also mostly just possible when the unhook is plain stupid, like in front of the killer
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Confirmed. But I can also add that this month I had a pretty nice streak of just rare tunneling attempts or something like that. The last 5 days it is more like 80% of the games being PURE and obvious tunneling and camping, including mori off the hook.
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The headless horseman would be great o.O
I would throw in The Thing
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I haven't tried the synergy with STBFL, but I tested that perk on both sides enough on PTB. And I only noticed to get value out of it when survivors mess up. 16m range is a distance where on many maps you get problems to find a second pallet that will be affected. I'm not sure what you mean with "boxed" on indoor maps, I would like to see videos that prove survivors "tried" but couldn't make it to another pallet. And don't forget that windows are still an option (regarding your Midwhich example).
Because the thing is, if you run in a straight line after a hit and have the space to run in a straight line, you need about 20 seconds to catch up again (there was a video comparing the Clown changes pre/post buff, with/without gas and extra Hindered addon). That makes 80m for the survivor. If that perk stops a survivor from using a pallet he needed to survive, then he either lost orientation or didn't make distance for whatever reason (like the common 2 extra circles trying to bamboozle the killer, or simply crushing into a wall and lose half of his speed boost).
At least that is my impression
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1648322#Comment_1648322
KInda like Exhaustion perks?
OP's idea isn't perfect, but I think putting some limitation on bringing 4 second chance perks could be a way to go. Maybe not shutting down entirely, but making each other less effective than standalone.
F/E making survivors do more actual work to earn activation of perk or have survivor be affected by some nasty effects or simply weaken other perks when they are used together.
I still think fixing the perk itself is the better approach than adding workarounds for certain scenarios. As I said, don't wanna block anything off, this is just my opinion. I think there are several good approaches mentioned already on how to adress DS. Because UB itself is fine imo, no need to nerf it in certain builds just because of DS being too strong.
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This sounds like a bandaid solution. Don't want to discourage new thinking though.
Just saying, there was also someone saying "classify a list of perks as S tier and you are only allowed to pick one S tier in your build"
I don't like these solutions because they don't adress the problem, they create a workaround. And I'm pretty sure that they won't implement a new status effect just to fix two perks
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Surge. Unlcear why they go over Demos perks and ignore it. There weas another thread showing that it is overkill to have 4 conditions
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@ZCerebrate said:
Is this for Dream Pallets? I never use those addons on the already few Nightmare games I pilot so I couldn't confirm this bug or not. I haven't had any issues with Dream Snares though or general freddy gameplay since this patch
I thought this was from the survivor perspective where Freddy's magical claws reach through time and space to spank you - because his short model it's really funky how long his lunge is visually.
it is not magical claws. He is your nightmare and does whatever it takes to scare you:
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@FFabeq said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1644124#Comment_1644124
yes only after taping a gen, but gates, totems and healing only after 3 seconds
no need to exclude the others. why should someone tap totems or gates if not planning to finish the action? Also, gate tapping would be possible. Release after 2.5s and you finish the gate anyway while being invulnerable. Do you have an explanation why you want the 3s counter? I would simply say, the survivor should take the decision if he wants to cancel the counter or FIRST look for heals, a medkit or whatever.
@Xyvielia said:
...a companion perk.. like this:
(recently posted this, but it’s worth another)
Right Back Atcha!
You’re always eager to return the favour!
Injured altruistic survivors who unhook you will receive the endurance status effect for 15 seconds. Any damage taken that would put the altruistic survivor into the dying state will instead apply the deep wound status effect. The altruistic survivor has 10/15/20 seconds to mend themselves.
If the altruistic survivor takes any damage while affected by deep wound or if its timer ends, the altruistic survivor is immediately put into the dying state.
Possibly place a “once per trial” bind on this perk, similar to DS.
It’s like a double BT effect if the unhooking survivor has BT an the hooked survivor has RBA, where no matter which survivor (or both) the killer hits, they won’t get the immediate down. This way the killer can’t simply slug one, then easily tunnel off hook and slug the other.
The other option is to feature a Mettle of Man (additional hit) effect included in the perk to benefit altruistic survivors who are fully healthy when going for the unhook.
That would be like the first version of BT, which was changed for a reason. And you stated the reason: "no matter which survivor the killer hits". This has no counterplay. This allows just stupid headless play for survivors.
BTW I love the change that it can be used multiple times, when it is changed to be true anti tunnel. That would make true tunneling super worthless.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1645595#Comment_1645595
I will edit this later to respond to the rest, but I don't know why you have an issue with a categorization of Technician as a stealth perk.
Stealth: going unnoticed or less noticed. Technician: reducing generator explosions and making sounds less noticed.
If this can't be labeled as a stealth perk, then something is wrong with the world.
There is nothing wrong with it. It just sounds like you want that to be a stealth perk, and that it is against any kind of rules to move away from that and make it a newbie perk. Sounds like you want to disallow BHVR to do that.
And with that stealth explanation, I'm not sure what you criticised on my posts
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You are a bit late with that one...
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1645042#Comment_1645042
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CUNWQCXNQ83M/download.jpg
...but that's not what I said. The only thing you appropriately attribute to me is that the devs shouldn't be designing beginner only perks.
I also feel like you don't understand what mutually exclusive means... I said that stealth is for all players and that includes beginners too.
Technician is worse because it increases skill check penalty and makes beginner survivors think it's more alright to miss skill checks because it's safer. It also helps to make other survivors more annoyed at you when you miss a skill check on a gen they are working on, especially when the killer is headed straight for it.
I....I really don't know why you're talking about stealth as if it just means going unnoticed passively. I also don't even pass judgement on the stealth part in my post...
Alright, I missed the mutually part. Still: I imply nothing regarding that with the statement I made. My only point was you saying "by design it is a gen stealth perk" which is simply your impression or maybe wish. You want it to be a stealth perk because you use it like that. And I only disagreed with that perk definition.
My opinion is, that I rather take the regression than the notification. This is a scenario for early to midgame as well, when you sit together on gens. Because unless the killer is already busy, the gen will not get fixed. We don't know about numbers yet, but I guess while repairing with 2 survivors, this will hardly take the gen longer than 5 extra seconds when working together on it if you miss a skillcheck. When there is no notification, these 5 seconds are unlikely to have an effect.
"promoting bad playstyle" is not an argument for me. This is the same argumentation why Selfcare is regarded a bad perk, which is wrong. It is the survivor who decides to play bad or make bad usage of a perk
I think it is common sense that missing skillchecks is a bad thing. No perk will change that and especially Technician will not cause missed skillchecks because new survivors say "why not?". If at all, it will cause more failed skillchecks because the perk is used to train great skillchecks, which is not a bad thing at all. If you think that, it would be like saying "pls don't train looking backwards while in a chase. you ruin the game for me by running into obstacles, ending chases more quickly than necessary"
Your scenarios above in your reply to Almo I don't really agree with. This is endgame only and not the only situation where the perk can take effect. And I don't get how the stealth aspect of the perk is related in these endgame situations. If you leave the gen that early to not get found, then you don't even make use of the reduced audio range. I think the stealth aspect is more relevant in situations where the killer is busy with a chase, allowing you to repair it anyway, without him noticing it by audio.
And pls explain two things in more detail, just in case I misunderstand again:
- "especially when the killer is headed straight for it" what difference does it make when the killer is coming anyway? The gen is blocked for 3 seconds and normal fails regress it by 10%, you won't finish it anyway after a miss
- What exactly do you think I miss on stealth? By definition it is either being undetectable or acting/moving cautiously (roughly). I don't know what you mean with passively and what active stealth I apparently ignore
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@Customapple0 said:
Nice to see there’s a huge uprising against DS because Pop got a slight nerf.
Comparing DS and PGTW is like comparing apples to oranges....
The key is the reason they mentioned
it wound up being a little too lenient and allowed Killers to find and kick a generator at their leisure, often after chasing and downing a different Survivor
You can say exactly the same about DS to make a valid argument to nerf it. One minute is simply a lot
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@EuphoricBliss35 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1645417#Comment_1645417
I don’t think you know old DS, and are just parroting something you read. DS could be used when you wanted it before, you could use it after first hook, after 2nd hook. There was no timer. If you’d like to go back to that, and having to dribble survivors, be my guest
Bad read then. I did not say that you HAD to use it first down. Btw the dribble was fixed by making the skillcheck appear earlier. Besides that it is not relevant how the perk exactly works and I did not try to point that out. I was just referencing the pickrate at that time.
FYI I started Nov 2017 and do indeed know the old DS and pickrate
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1645418#Comment_1645418
Not bait it does needs changes to the entire perk.
So what's your first paragraph about? And what exactly were your suggestions of what and why it needs changes? All I got was "nerf tunneling"
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btw nice bait title
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Oh boi...
First, which perk are you talking about that got nerfed twice? If it is DS; this is a plain buff. That's why the pickrate is that high, compared to the pickrate before It was "first down usage" instead of "after hook usage".
The most changes requested by everyone would make it a better anti tunnel perk, because it "should" deactivate when you are not tunneled and it stays up longer when you are tunneled. If you need DS to have fun because of tunneling, then the new version is better. For killers as well btw, because they get hit less by DS when they actually are not tunneling.
The only reason why nobody got mad at this perk is because it became an agressive tool for many people, it straight got stronger. No reason actually to be mad at that. When I run it to not get tunneled, I almost never make use of it. Like every 5th game maybe.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1645381#Comment_1645381
The latter is common but having a slug be downed for a while is more common. Especially when you can be across the map working on a gen. It gives them time to recover.
It is more common, but does that mean that this is a bad buff because you cannot use it consistently multiple times every game like an exhaustion perk? I mean come on, what do you want to have? Constant 100% heal speed buff? It has its uses, probably even gives you protection hits when healing slugs, giving you another stack. No need to call it useless before the numbers are even clear
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Actually the first version was 120s but before release, they stated that in a Q&A. Also, DS stun time was 3 seconds before, got increased to 5 seconds because it was useless against Enduring, then Enduring didn't affect DS anymore but DS stayed at 5 seconds. Just as a reminder.
@Customapple0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1645139#Comment_1645139
You don’t seem to think through this. This is why you can’t just nerf the timer of DS. THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERKS.
You reduce the timer of DS to 45s and it will be gutted and will just encourage using DS ASAP. Not only that but if I’m tunnelled and lead the killer on a 30s chase, they only have to wait 15s to pick me up again.
60s is the right spot.
The thing relevant on that one is they said "it wound up being a little too lenient and allowed Killers to find and kick a generator at their leisure, often after chasing and downing a different Survivor". Same applies to the DS timer. That's the argumentation. 1 minute is enough to do several other things, far away from being tunneled
Besides that, you don't WANT to use this perk, when this is an anti tunnel perk. When you WANT to use it, then it is an aggressive/attacking perk.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1645294#Comment_1645294
Exactly they are always 99. The buff just seems not much thought of and just something thrown in to get people to not complain.
They are only 99 when you let them lie down that long. There are several situations where you can make use of a faster slug healing, like on double downs, then they are mostly just 50% up, you can loop around a pallet with a downed survivor and after dropping it have at least 2 seconds of healing, which can be enough now depending on the buff. Simply just wait for the numbers
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@gatsby said:
Honestly, Trapper just needs a charge system like Hag and Freddy. Having to walk around the map and pick up traps just inefficient
Agree on the inefficiency, but having mechanical traps appear and disappear out of nowhere looks silly. Just Increase the amout the trapper starts with and picking up is only possible when below x (depending on addons). Then reduce the amount of traps in the trial accordingly and don't place them randomly, place them active at windows, doors and pallets. Then he is a pretty strong killer
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you need to go into the bug report section first and then click "new bug report"
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/categories/bugs
there is no category "bug report" when clicking "nex discussion", then you create a discussion. Also, add more information. There is a template you should use, it is pinned in the bug report section. Like which platform you played, add info about map and addons you used etc. Be as precise as possible, it helps them to reproduce the bug
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I also thought about that combo already. Also looking forward to the mobility Insidious killers, hooking someone, kicking the gen beneath and finally being able to charge their power while camping the hook and still being undetectable, for example PH for the double down through the wall, Nurse for the grab, Demo/Slinger for the ranged attacks. Hell yeah, best will be the slinger with the insta down addon on 15m, or think about the Billy being undetectable and using the addon where you only hear the chainsaw within his TR?
I looking forward to the pros being able to master this stealth capability.
Sorry if I overreact, I just don't understand why they argue "we were afraid of it being too strong and now noticed it isn't" andthen decide to go for a 500% version of the perk, just to make sure their apprehension gets confirmed. But let's see what happens
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1644127#Comment_1644127
I'm not talking about the reduced sound because that wasn't changed. I have no issue with that, so it's not here.
Secondly, stealth is not mutually exclusive with beginner even though you heavily imply that it is through "you say...[but] the devs say, [then the devs are right]". I never said anything about it not being a beginner perk, but I did say something about how it would be nice if it could also work for more advance players. Perks shouldn't be solely designed as "beginner perks". That's silly. Limiting the amount of perks that are useful to one side or another is exactly why so many perks aren't considered for the "meta"; their strange restrictions and effects aren't of any use. Furthermore, feeding into the meta is never really a good idea when it comes to balance.
I don't imply that stealth is a beginner thing. I don't know where you get that from. That is a strange way of concluding. Why I said that is because they decided to buff the beginner aspect of that perk (as they want it to be a beginner perk) and you said they ruined the stealth aspect of it. Which I don't even think they did, because the stealth aspect is still there, even better than before.
And it is only your opinion that there should be no beginner perks. There are not many perks like that anyway (Visionary, Deja Vu, Technician and Windows of Opportunity are the only 4 perks I can think of on survivor side), so the meta argumentation for 4 perks out of 75 perks does not really fot for me.
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Well, two things. The stealth part is still a thing, they did not say that the reduced sound is being removed. And the regression should REALLY not be a problem unless you go against Unnerving Presence (and even then...).
Second: you are of course allowed to use the perk however you want, but if you say this is a gen stealth perk, and devs say this is a beginner perk, then Technician is a beginner perk.
@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1643314#Comment_1643314
But the problem a newer players usually won't immediately jump on head unless they pick Feng Min right away.
A general consensus of the community is usually to go for things like iron will, adrenaline, sprint burst and we're gonna live forever before tackling anything else. So by the time these people have pretty much leveled up for different characters they're pretty adept at dealing with skill checks so they're not going to really be using technician anyway.
The only time this is in the case is if the new player in question usually just starts out as Min because they like her aesthetically.
That's the problem with having perks for new players be teachables by the timer player gets the perks it's usually recommended for them they are experienced enough at the game that they don't need to even worry about things like Windows of Opportunity or technician.
That teachable thing is not that big of a problem. I just started with a friend and he had the benefit of me and my brother bringing a handful of event cakes, so he needed 5 hours of total gametime to max out his first character and hop on the next character to unlock teachables. So, another 3 hours and he has the next perk on his maxed out character. And every 3 hours he can get the next perk. Or maybe every 5 if we don't count in additional cakes.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
When they said Thana is a lose lose, they mean the effect is inherently always punishing. Not that it is currently a huge deal with it's current numbers to all playstyles.
Their solution to this is a small magnitude, which makes the issue negligible but causes a balance issue in return. In other words, the perk effecting healing speed forces them to make the perk underpowered.
Thus, by removing the heal speed decrease, they can make the perk actually balanced without making it overbearing.
Then this is a strange understanding of "lose-lose situation". What would they say about Sloppy Butcher? Basically the same isn't it? If you don't heal, you go down instantly, if you heal, you waste more time than necessary. Just exchange "insta down" with "slower gen progress". I think it is totally ok if a perk is "always punishing".
Because, as I said: A full injured team on Thana Tier 3, meaning max value, causes ("only") the first heal done by a single survivor or medkit to take 2.5 seconds longer. Several ways to counter that, subsequent heals slowed down less. I know that every second can make the difference in certain situations. But just as comparison: a brown toolbox saving 5.33 seconds on a gen is regarded useless. I think survivors waste more time crouching around than this perk can waste on healing.
I know that the pure definition of lose-lose might fit here, I just think that, regarding this minor effect, this is a "got nothing else" reason. Like "new players struggle with Ruin skilllchecks" while new players barely faced that perk due to the stats they gave and the fact that this is a DLC perk, that needs to be bought, unlocked and then found in others' bloodwebs.
But regardless, this wasn't even my main point on the Thana change. Good we talked about it anyway ^^
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I also made another thread on Thana and Mindbreaker.
Regarding thana, I think it is mostly used on Plague and Legion, and will buff them heavily. Plague because cleansing powers her up and Legion because they can easily keep the stacks up. And I'm not sure if other killers will profit from Thana that much, because I rarely see no-heal-metas which means you will most likely still get up to max 2 stacks most of the time. Depends on the buff to slowdown, but the higher the buff, the more meta and the more annoying Thana will be on Legion/Plague. So I'm really not sure if this is a good chage
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@TWiXT said:
I'm just a bit peeved that while they were running through and altering the Demogorgons perks, they left Surge untouched. While Mindbreaker and Cruel Limits needed buffs, Surge has 4 frustrating as hell conditions for activation: down with basic attack, 32 meter distance from a generator, Gen can't be blocked or regressing, and the 40 second cooldown. Considering that it only does 8% damage and saves a killer time on kicking the gen, all they needed to do is remove 1 of the conditions to make it more practical in a killers build. Many have suggested/agreed that the 2 most aggravating conditions are the "Down with basic attack" and the Cooldown:
Down with basic attack - What can I say, this requirement didn't work for Infectious Fright, and it ain't working for Surge either. The primary reason this has never been a good requirement is that it's practically useless to killers who can down with their powers, and I'm not just talking about the obvious ones like the Chainsaw boys/Oni, and Ranged killers like Plague and Huntress, I'm also talking about Pig's ambush attack, Blight's rush, Demo's Shred, etc, All of which also don't activate Surge because of this stupid as hell requirement. If they removed it like they did for Infectious Fright, Surge would become much more universally useful to all of the killers, instead of the 4 that I know of who can use it consistently: Plague, Trapper, Ghostface, Shape. Why does it work best on them vs other killers you ask? They can down a survivor quickly with a basic attack before the survivor gets out of range of any gens (in trappers case though he has to trap a survivor near the gens first). There's a strong case for removing this requirement, as keeping it in heavily limits the number of killers who can get any use from it.
Cooldown - Surge has a 40 second cooldown, which seems fair as the devs obviously didn't want it going off all the time but with its other requirements for activation, the cooldown is excessively flawed. Scenario 1: I down the only survivor near a gen with my basic attack and activate surge on said gen. another survivor comes to get a flashlight/pallet save, I lose the survivor and they go running back in the direction of the gen, I down them a second time before the cooldown finishes so surge doesn't go off, but since the gen was still regressing, surge wouldn't have activated anyways! Scenario 2: I quickly down 2 survivors within the right distance of a generator, surge activated once from the first survivor downed, but unless someone tapped said gen, It wouldn't have activated again anyways because it was already regressing, so what's the point of the cooldown again?... I could go on and on with these scenarios, but you get the point, once the gen has been hit by Surge it starts regressing and can no longer be affected by another surge attack unless someone taps it, and most survivors will simply flee the area when a killer is downing people nearby, so really, without a cooldown surge would only punish a survivor sticking to a gen while their teammates are going down nearby. Add in the time it takes to down a survivor, the distance they can get from a gen, and the minor amount of damage Surge does from its initial hit... Is the cooldown really even necessary?
I'm really upset that while the devs were taking initiative in reviewing and altering the Demogorgons perks, they completely ignored Surge which has been the topic of many discussions and suggestions for buffing it, much more discussions than either Mindbreaker or Cruel Limits. With that many complaints and forum posts about it, they could have at the very least made 1 of these suggested alterations to it for PTB testing only, even if they never intended it to go live. Sigh... well, here's hoping they read this and consider trying one of these changes for the next chapters PTB.
Good point. If they do a Q&A stream, that would the the question I would raise, why this perk was ignored. Hope they have some explaining stats on that. The feedback to this perk was big enough on the forums.
NB. that Surge was discussed that much over Demo's other two perks because it had the potential to be a viable perk. I guess the other two perks will not increase in pickrate with the changes anyway, they are still not worth the pick. I can imagine Cruel limits with Bitter Murmur, but that is two perks for a most likely very minor effect (a possibly 'easier' first hit if you are not already occupied while the gen finishes). And my thoughts on the Mindbreaker change are above