DarKStaR350z
DarKStaR350z
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796229#Comment_3796229
Yes, the dog part is saying the wrong punishment makes things worse, and the Black Knight part is saying some solutions do nothing at all.
There are levels of 'caring about the outcome'. There is "I will do everything I can to win", there is "I'm just here to get paid (Blood Points)", and there is "Golly Gee I hope my day doesn't get ruined, I'm at my breaking point". Normally you don't really want people in the third category to play the game at all. The issue is the game itself is pushing people to that negative extreme. It would be hypocritical to shove someone into the pool then ask "why'd you go in if you can't swim".
The waste of time issue is a flaw of the game, because you can ruin someone's experience without even attempting it. It can be an ally or enemy. Legion is an example of a commonly disliked Killer, even if they aren't necessarily considered strong. For some Survivors, they can hate Legion themself because they despise spamming M1 to mend, or hate their teammates for healing against Legion only to get Feral AOE stabbed seconds later. For the opponents exclusively, there can be exit gate teabags and Bleedout for the 4Ks. You go in expecting everyone to play the game normally, then the next thing you know 8+ minutes are being wasted from the Bleedout alone (4 for the Bledout Surv, 4 for the hiding Surv, and 4*remaining Survs waiting to see perks). This could easily be fixed by revealing perks on death (outside of SWF), and adding a 'giveup' button when either A: down to the final 2 Survivors, or B: reached max Recovery without being picked up.
If people act like petulant children they should get punished, I agree. The problem is that it is currently rewarded for Killer all too often. Act like a jerk and you can get an extra kill or 2. They are your opponents, so there often is little to no empathy offered towards them.
If any change is made to DCs, it should be that if a DC happens in the first 5 minutes, everyone else should be able to DC with their items+offerings and BP. If it happens after 5m, honestly that's late enough in the game to use the normal method. Also DCs are often better for Survivors than Kobes, because you at least get a bot rather than someone intentionally or passively griefing. Having less DC penalties encourages DCing instead of Kobeing, which is sadly better for the game. If there aren't sweeping changes to prevent these negative extremes from happening. Lets go back to what we originally started this. I said that the only reason people are Kobeing(/DCing) is because the match itself was so garbage and unfun, that they are actually having more fun quitting the match. That is a massive design flaw. No fun game has people going "Yippee I can't wait to DC next match I queue into!", so the problem is inherent with the game, not the players.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796342#Comment_3796342
Point 1: I think the stats aren't strictly from a competitive point of view and some are the Marge styled "I just think its neat!". It isn't necessarily competitive to want to know which Mario Kart goes faster, just as it isn't necessarily competitive to want to know which Killer has a higher killrate.
Point 2: I partially agree here. I think MMR (in its implementation) has psychologically pushed people into playing more sweaty. I had far more fun on both sides back when we used Rank-Based Matchmaking. Alternatively, team-based MMR would make the game far less unfun, because people would play to grief (legally) less often. I would prefer to go back to RBMM, as it tracks all the actions leading up to escape, and tracks skill far more effectively than blind K/E.
Point 3: The problem here was sweatlord Blights was ruining casual matches with bugtech. So that isn't making a balance decision to screw over comp, it was a balance decision to help fix normals.
How many party games use MMR? Mario Kart itself uses MMR for its online play. There does have to be some system to split the highest and lowest skilled players, otherwise the lowest skilled players quit. That's probably more important for a kids party game like Mario Kart. (You don't want a kid showing up the next day at school saying 'Mario Kart sucks!') The idea of Mario Kart using the campaign scoring system to split the players, so that next match there is a lobby of the 1st place winners against each other, lobby of 2nd place winners against each other, all the way down, actually makes a lot of sense. DBD using blind K/E doesn't make sense, and again, I'd prefer to use the system actually designed with the unique game rules in mind (Ranks/Grades).
Like I said (and will rephrase here) though, if they fully revamp the game such that Nurse and Myers (and everyone else, as well as perks) are perfectly equal in power, then I am 100% on board with top-down balancing. I was just saying that feels like a pipe-dream minimum 2 years out at the soonest, even if they took that dedicated effort.
With your pool analogy, no one is pushing or forcing anyone to play the game; it’s solely their choice and they have to respect that other people are enjoying it too, and that they can’t keep playing and ruining others experience because it isn’t like they want.
I get that there are things on both sides that some don’t enjoy, but people know that there’s a chance they might go against it when the queue up and so should be prepared to stick it out if they go against it which is the grown up thing to do.
If someone is really finding the game that frustrating to play then they should take a break until they have the patience to be mature about dealing with things that aren’t their favourite.
A better way of dealing with and discouraging ragequitting would at least keep the people who engage in that behaviour out of the queue which you say is the desired result, for them to not play the game while they are just going to rage and ruin the match for the others.We’ve seen the game with no DC penalty and it was a mess. You see killers quitting more rarely because they don’t have a loophole to exploit to go next with no repercussions. If they could open the exit and walk out at any time then you would certain see a similar problem from that side when the first chase goes too long, or gens start popping before they find or down someone, or their first down gets flashlight saved or hook sabotaged, or they get head on flashbanged etc.
Killers can’t just go next and so tend to put up with things they don’t enjoy because they have to weigh up just doing their best and playing it out or wait out an ever increasing time out.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796173#Comment_3796173
P1 - First off, the thread is about main-brained Killer players falsely thinking the game with a 60% killrate is Survivor sided, not Killer being OP. Secondly, you can still complete a glyph challenge if you get chased first, so this is plainly a lie. Thirdly, I wasn't even saying people are justified in these actions, just that this is what can drive them to these undesired responses. I don't get annoyed at a tree blocking my view and cut one branch expecting it to magically disappear, I have to cut it down at the roots. Same here, don't stick a bandaid on the Monty Python Black Knight's stumps for arms and legs and be confused when they don't grow back. Address the primary cause, not the symptoms. You are promoting symptomatic treatment, which is only good when you don't know what is or could be the root cause.
P2 - Even the worst case scenarios of these DC/Kobe death games allow them to continue 'somewhat normally' just the same. That guaranteed loss is still a guaranteed loss, regardless if they played out the match, DCed, or Kobed to death. That argument for bleedouts justifies DCs in the same breath, and to be clear I don't advocate either of those. I am saying that it is a consequence of actions. I agree, all Killers bleeding out for the 4K should just take their 3K hook and stop acting like a spoiled child as well.
P3 - If I only had 1-3 matches, then the second things go south, it would make the most sense to go crazy with my last match. If the match was so horrifically boring/unfun/bad, then all that does is make more people do negative actions. The threat of a penalty is only relevant if it would achieve the desired outcome. I could pee on my dog and hope it stops eating my furniture, but that punishment isn't likely to actually achieve my goal of stopping my furniture from being ripped to shreds. Instead, my dog is just going to look at me confused and shake it off onto that same furniture, making the situation far worse.
Thank you for bringing up the Battle Royale genre, because that is what people are forcing the game to be. When a Killer tunnels someone out, and you can't even look at the Killer's perks before the match is over (for everyone, not just yourself), many (newer) people assume the Killer is some form of cheater and go to the next match. If they didn't get killed 90s into the match, maybe they would actually be invested enough in the outcome of the match, wait till the end, and actually learn the Killers perks and what contributed to their win or loss. People are being further and further encouraged to treat the game like a Battle Royale, unless there are actual steps taken to stop this problem. Greater DC penalties will merely encourage this Battle Royale styled 'I don't care about the outcome' problem further, because their big penalty will cause them to quit for the day, and no longer be invested.
Also there is a difference between a game 'going your way' and 'being a complete and utter waste of everyone's time'. The problem is far too many matches are falling into the latter category, not the former.
Your dog analogy is such a weird comparison lol. I guess your arguement would be to not punish the dog or stop it from ruining your furniture but give it treats instead without addressing it’s bad behaviour; or remove your furniture altogether and everyone has to sit on the floor. And nothing you do will make the black knights arms or legs magically grow back lol.
If people didn’t care about the outcome of a match then they wouldn’t be ragequitting when things don’t go their way. If kobes are removed and an adequate punishment in place for DCs and griefing then the sooner those players can quit for the day and stop ruining everyone else experience that are invested in the game which would be the desired outcome. Or put all those players into their own queue so they can ruin each other’s matches without affecting everyone else and then they’ll see how their behaviour affects people when they are subjected to it from others themselves.
The game only becomes a waste of everyone’s time when someone ruins it for the others, and if you personally find playing the game a waste of your time then you shouldn’t be queueing up to play with other people.
People have different opinions and you’ll never please everyone, and if everyone behaved like a child and quit when they don’t get their way then no one would ever get a normal match because there would always be someone leaving.
It’s not even really to do with it being one sided or the other as back before DC penalties when survivors were at their most powerful people still DCd rampantly for the slightest reason. As long as an easy out option is there some people will take it and the sooner it is removed and more heavily discouraged with penalties the better for everyone except the rage quitters.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796057#Comment_3796057
P1 - Not everyone has the same time available, nor plays this as their only game. I strongly encourage you to attempt to work 60hrs a week, help raise either your kids or your younger siblings or niece and nephews, maintain a social life, and enjoying other activities/hobbies/games. Time is the most precious commodity, and artificially limiting Battle Passes encourages this behavior. I can only grant you this point if they use unlimited Battle Passes, which respects people's time equally.
P2 - Teabag and WSWS are considered BM by many, but aren't bannable. Bleeding out intentionally is considered BM, but not bannable. Touching gens every 9m59s and never reaching 10m of not touching gens is ratty behavior, but not bannable (last I recall 10m in a row was the limit for 'holding the game hostage'). You can be a jerk entirely within the confines of the rules. The types I was referring to (or at least meant to refer to if I wasn't specific enough) was specifically jerk behavior that is legal. For example, I can run Technician, Self-Care, and Bite the Bullet and not attempt skillchecks, and that is technically entirely legal. I could gen-tap to counter old Ruin, despite it taking ~3 times as long to finish gens. All of those ruin matches, but aren't specifically illegal.
P3 - Again, we run into the problem of people with (near)infinite time, and people with time for 1-3 matches. Someone with only 1-3 matches in their schedule are all the more empowered to quit and act out the harsher the penalties are. You can see this all the time "If I'm getting punished, I'm gunna do something actually worthy of punishment". This would make those artificial penalties cause greater match sabotage actions. Everyone playing with (near)infinite time can just wait for the last match of the night to act out. I know of at least 1 community that jokes past midnight "we play till we win, or if its a Nurse/SM, we DC", so there is no real prevention for this type of behavior regardless. The best solution is preventing these negative extremes from ever showing their faces, not making greater punishments that would be memed around regardless.
P1 - This thread is about killer being OP, but by your arguement it wouldn’t matter what killer it is or how strong, if they found you first while you are trying a glyph challenge you would just ‘go next’ because you can’t complete your challenge.
To think you are the only person in such a situation life wise is very self centred; and to suggest that because you’re too busy to put time into the game that you are entitled to get balance changed and be able to ruin other peoples time (who maybe in a similar situation to you) is a very backwards and selfish mentality.
P2 - All of those things at least allow the game to continue somewhat normally compared to you just having a tantrum and quitting because things haven’t gone your way. You are still participating in the match and the other players can still play around your childish behaviour.
Plus you are still wasting your own time and many would just play normally at that point even if you want to suggest many would be like you and act like a spoilt child.P3 - Again if you only have time for 3 games and the penalty is a long enough deterrent then one of those games would be wasting your own time by quitting or trying to ruin the match for the other players, and then another match you would waste sitting out your DC penalty. If time is so precious why would you waste it in this way instead of trying to play a normal match to the best of your ability. If you really don’t enjoy the game unless you win or complete a challenge then perhaps play something you feel you can enjoy with the short time you have to play.
You wouldn’t put a battle royale game on but then complain if the matches you had time to play ended because you died shortly after starting, or that other players needed to be changed so you got to win because you don’t have much time in your life to play.Some games aren’t going to go your way, such is the nature of online PvP especially when teams are involved and you have to be grown up to be ok with that, as that is what you are signing up for when you hit that button to search for a match.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795985#Comment_3795985
P1 - If there was no artificial time limit associated with them, then I would agree with you. If the Battle Passes were permanent, and you could get the Battle Pass xp for the revelant historic Battle Pass, then this would be correct. Since BHVR artificially removes Battle Passes for engagement numbers, they know this is a consequence of their actions. This is a scummy tactic to force customers to feel FOMO, and this is a consequence of that artificial FOMO. If I do something really bad to someone, and they retaliate in a predictable manner, I am responsible for that retaliation. This is the case with FOMO Battle Passes, BHVR, and time limited tomes.
P2 - Or possibly more people would ruin matches and bm mid match instead in other ways within the rules. Both are possibilities. You can't hold someone hostage and say 'play the game the way I want you to play or you can't play at all'. Everyone who went to school realizes that you never invite that kid to play games with you again, and they have to play with themselves. This is the equivalent of that same social pressure found in schools. Play so we can all have fun, or we A: don't play with you, or B: make sure you don't have fun right alongside us. Since we can't ban players to be matchmade with, people can only resort to option B, mutual spite unfun/anti-fun (some with, and most without rulebreaking).
P3 - I'm not saying you get to do this for free, I'm saying all of these actions build up a Patience bar. Once someone's Patience bar is filled, they lose the desire to play in a fun manner for other people (but still can play according to the rules while ruining everyone else's match). These things I oppose build up that bar faster, so if we minimize the actions that fill this Patience bar, then we get greater match quality, since less people's Patience bar has filled.
P1 - There is loads of time the rift pass is open, and a couple of 15 minute games where you don’t get to complete a challenge isn’t going to make much of a difference. It’s a weak excuse to try and give rage quitters a pass.
P2 - BMing and sabotaging the game as you describe is a reportable offence and action would be taken that way to deter such behaviour.
P3 - This is the reason longer penalties would be necessary to give players without the patience to play the game normally as is expected of them a time out where they don’t force themselves to queue up knowing the slightest thing that they don’t agree with will cause them to ruin the game for the other players.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795796#Comment_3795796
Yes there are "I will always" DCs, there are "I hate this Killer" DCs, there are "the match is unwinnable" DCs, and there are "God why did I log in to play this horrible game" DCs, "I lost and my time is now being wasted if I don't quit" DCs and more. The "I will always" are the group that you are talking about, and is entirely fair to discard those, but all the other DCs are still valid (in comparison). The problem is you are acting like the "I will always" group is any amount greater than 50%, when it is probably 1-5% at most. you are ignoring 50-90% of games (with DCs) with legitimate player enjoyment problems because of one scapegoat, just like BHVR is when they ignore DCs towards killrates.
The "I hate this Killer" DCs are because so many Killers are so poorly designed, and there is no counter (for player enjoyment, not raw mechanical counterplay) other than "I hope I don't RNG into them". That's why so many people call Kobeing 'go-next'. Give me another roll of the dice, because you gave me an autoloss, or a Plague when I'm running a heal tome, or a Ranged Killer and a Pallet stun tome, or whatever reason the game would be unenjoyable on its face. That's the thing though, how often do you run into Plague? Yet somehow her pick rate appears to go up to 50% when you want to run a goofy heal build or get a heal tome done.
Survivor is built to lose, so you have to have fun in the planned loss. If you can't even meaningfully engage with the game such as getting build value, then you sadly are better off "going next" to a game where you can get build value/fun. The design needs to be fixed so this flaw can't occur. Killer bans at 1 per 5 released Killers (round down) would help fix this, and Killers can get map bans so Ghosty doesn't need to go to Autohaven with 0 LOS blockers, and Huntress doesn't need to go to Lerys.
Is it a player problem that the game is so dissatisfying when it using to be fun? That sounds like the players haven't changed, and the game did. That would make it a game problem.
If you think that ruining the game for 4 other players because you can’t complete a time challenge then you are the problem.
If DC punishments were longer and killing yourself to ‘go next’ weren’t options that saved time over just playing the damn game out then it wouldn’t be so prevalent.
You can dislike a certain killer but when you queue up you are submitting to the chance you may vs them and it’s entitled to feel you can screw over the other players because you haven’t got exactly what you want. There are 4 other people that have wants as well and that may well include playing as or against the thing you dislike. -
@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795175#Comment_3795175
If the game is designed to be so unfun that people are Kobing themselves out of matches to go next, then you have to include that. The game being so poorly designed that people have 0 desire to play out a match, means the match itself was going to be so painfully unfun, the alternative was preferable.
Nurse skips half the rules of the game and arguably deserves her own launcher. Because she is such a free win (when piloted competently), Killers become overconfident and tank her winrate. Also isn't it suspicious that DCs don't count towards the stats, and Nurse has among the top 3 DC rate (IME)? That tells me that most Nurse matches that include a DC are deflating her killrate, but since they don't tell us the rate of DCs, we can't tell for sure. Freddy and the like are kind of the opposite, Survivors go in expecting an easy match and lose from their overconfidence (and never DCing).
People have always DC’d because things didn’t go exactly how they wanted, even when survivors were at their most powerful. Leading to the implementation of the DC penalty, and people Kobe because it’s a way to circumvent the punishment system and needs to go.
If people have zero desire to play then they shouldn’t be queuing up when they know what they are queueing up for.If killers could walk out the exit gates and go next as soon as their first down got flashlight saved then there would be as many that do that as those who DC because they got found first or Kobe because they got downed first and their DC timer is already too high.
It’s a player problem not a game problem, except the fact they still have a system in place to allow survivors to leave on a whim because they feel entitled to do so and screw over the other 4 players who just want to play the game.
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Most of my solo survivor games are ruined by my teammates more than anything else.
1 or 2 walking around doing nothing and not touching gens all game.
DCing 30 seconds into a match before anything has happened.
Killing themselves on first hook because they got downed early or quickly.
I just wish my teammates would try to play the game. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794460#Comment_3794460
Those are fair questions, but they're more qualitative. All escape rate is asking is "how often?". That's all it's meant to do. I'm sure the devs look at those things too. It's why we get seemingly random buffs and nerfs despite escape rates being in line with their goals. Those things are factored in to a degree. Escape rate is measured on the outcome of all games, and all those things happen in games. But I'd caution against discarding escape rate entirely just because it's not meant to answer qualitative questions.
But the same is true of course for people putting too much stock in those statistics, as you say it’s not meant to answer qualitative questions either way, yet people quote them all too often when discussing things like balance and one side vs the other etc.
The developers themselves have always said to take the statistics they show us with a pinch of salt. It just hasn’t made things any better when we nowadays have an MMR system based on these binary statistics as the win condition.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794363#Comment_3794363
Individual games don't matter in this context. It's an average of all games played by all players in a given MMR bracket. Escape rates in games with Head On and Flashbang would be something you could figure out from a given dataset, but it doesn't make aggregate escape rates irrelevant. Those are completely different user stories a data scientist would work on. Much of the community has a fundamental misunderstanding of data science, and they're upset that they got an answer to a question they didn't realize they were asking.
Sure they matter though as we don’t know how many games out of the ones the data is taken from these sort of things happen in which can massively skew the stats.
How many games could’ve ended in a 1k but turned into a 3/4K because the survivors wanted to get the last one out.
I’ve just been guilty in a match where 1 was on hook and both exits were opened with one survivor being pushed out the other gate while 2 of us healed up at the other. We could’ve just left and got 3 out but went back for the 1 on hook and all 3 of us got killed for it. That made the kill rate look better than it should have and although we dominated the game easily, our MMR won’t increase nor will the escape stats show how much of an easy time we had; it will look like the killer dominated and got a 3k. There needs to be more taken into account in both MMR and these statistics as they don’t mean much without the context of what else happened during the matches.
If everyone dies at the end to NOED despite the exits being open it doesn’t mean killers need to be nerfed, it could mean NOED needs to be looked at or the survivors should’ve just left.
How many matches did a survivor kill themselves on first hook 30 seconds into the game leaving it a 3v1 where the others are doomed. There are things that massively affect the outcome of a match not being considered in kill/escape statistics.
How many games are 2-4 survivors killed by EGC and is that because they didn’t want to escape and raise their MMR, a killer can’t make a survivor escape even if they’ve lost, only a survivor decides if they want to show as a kill or escape on the statistics or MMR.
There are lots of factors in matches that need to be considered and just looking at a binary kill/escape statistic doesn’t have enough accurate data to make meaningful decisions on, wether that be balance or MMR etc.
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Remember that stats don’t take what happened in a game into account either; so if a team did all 5 gens in 5 minutes but then decided to mess with the killer until they all died, or refused to leave despite the exits being 99’d, or didn’t try to do gens at all but just Head On Flashbang the killer for 20 minutes for content, so escape rate doesn’t really show anything of value. Much like MMR being based off escapes doesn’t really value what was done during the match, so if you ran the killer for a 5 gen chase but didn’t escape, was it really a skill full play?
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Are you knocking a survivor down using the main event special ability?
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@Ayodam said:
They’d probably need to really alter their code to make such drastic changes to how gens function, not to mention they would need to rebalance everything (including nerfing killers to account for it taking longer for survivors to finish gens) so I don’t see that with this iteration of the game.
I don’t think it would be that hard to change.
have junk piles that behave like chests, and when you rummage through you get a part that behaves similar to some killers secondary items like vaccines etc.
Have gens only progress up to a certain point before a survivor with a part needs to interact with it to continue progress, and they’ve already got something similar with how Sables Invocation cuts part of the progression bar off, or how they stopped gen tapping by adding a point it has to be repaired past your stop it regressing. -
I’ve always liked the idea of collecting parts or fuel as part of repairing generators.
It’s something else to do except sit on a generator and encourages moving around the map which means more chance of interaction with the killer.
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@dbd900bach said:
As the title states, I'm asking for everyone's favorite killer that they simply can't play. To elaborate, you love the aesthetic, the premis behind their power and every animation they have. They are your ideal killer that is just so freaking awesome!
But...their gameplay sucks or they're boring. Maybe they're mechanically unappealing or too difficult to learn. You know that if you go into a game, it's going to suck and you'll probably lose regardless of what perks and add-ons you may have.
For me, it's Trickster. I love him aesthetically and I adore his animations, especially his reload animation. However, I hate playing him. Not because he's weak, but because it just doesn't feel good to play him. I P3 Trickster at launch, and everytime I get the itch to play him, I have to turn myself down because I'll regret it later.
Oni as his chase music absolutely slaps, but I’m on console and the power is really hard to be effective with on controller.
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@hygcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791671#Comment_3791671
I played Trapper, and by the time I placed the traps in the suggested locations, 3 generators were repaired. The MMR system in this game is quite strange. I don't understand how a new killer can end up facing tryhard survivors
Plagues perk Corrupt Intervention can help with this somewhat, as it blocks 3 generators furthest from you at the start of the match giving you some time to get some traps set up.
You have to level Plague up to lv50 and then prestige her once to unlock the perk to appear in Trappers bloodweb. -
I started out with Doctor as it really helped with finding and tracking survivors using his power.
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What region do you play on?
I’m EU and have played against nothing but Dracula bar one random Clown match last night.
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@ClarityOfWill said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788146#Comment_3788146
Already have done, I've provided feedback via some streamers that advocate for raising awareness around colour coordination related issues and provided input into videos that were released to highlight specific issues around colour-blindness. Unfortunately BHVR does not have a good track record and we're only a small number of voices. But hey, if you want to lend a hand as well then I'm sure there shouldn't be an issue with that, right?
I have been talking about it on these official forums for years as well as other console issues, as I’m both colourblind and only this year moved from PS4 to PS5 so am literally struggling myself.
But as you say they don’t have the best track record of listening to certain feedback about some issues.What’s made it more difficult to be heard is that a good portion of the playerbase was using things like filters so they were able to work around the issue themselves and so a lot of voices that would have spoke up about these issues were lost as they no longer had to struggle with them.
The more people who speak up the sooner things might have to change for everyone. -
@ClarityOfWill said:
I'd very interested to hear what BHVR would like for us suffering colour-blindness to do. The in game accessibility options are below average and NVIDIA filters at least allowed us to make up the difference.
I suppose given it took us roughly 7 years to get an FOV slider and the bare minimum (off the back of a certain someone's comments) not exactly holding out much hope.
However, some people here are clearly more interested in gloating over their "win" rather than actually supporting those of us with visibility issues. A shame considering that whatever advantage people may think we get, I promise you we'd get a far bigger one if our eyes worked properly in the first place.
How about supporting those with visibility issues on all platforms by advocating for in game solutions and better accessibility options for everyone, not just those on selected platforms.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787383#Comment_3787383
Oh stop. The game isn't bright enough on many TVs. People have been saying that for years. I genuinely can't see on many maps on the PS5 version with my TV set to game mode and the brightness maxed. The game is too dark.
You can’t use filters on PS5 so if it’s really an issue then surely the answer is to add in game options for all players, not to use external modifiers only available for a portion of the playerbase
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Afaik it has to be revealed using perks that have a time limit on them, reveal the killer aura for so many seconds etc; so stuff like Kindred wouldn’t count.
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This also massively affects kill rate statistics as while DCs aren’t counted towards them, there isn’t really a way to tell these early leavers so it will show as a kill in the statistics as well as making the game pretty much unwinnable for the remaining survivors leading to another 2 or 3 kills.
It’s why balancing around kill rate doesn’t work, as the statistics are too easily manipulated.
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I agree with Oni at the top but also think Dredge should be there as well; both those chase tracks absolutely slaps
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364210#Comment_3364210
Pre 6.1 DH was nerfed because it had both invulnerability for a short duration and gave a very short speed boost. M1 and M2 attacks were ignored instead of causing Endurance and the three foot speed boost made it impossible to stop a DH for distance to a window vault. Deep Wounds did not affect a usage of DH and you could DH literally over Trapper's traps. 75% of survivors used it and anyone using it could, in a very short amount of time, use it to significantly improve their survival rates.
Now, there are counters, you can hit a DH user vaulting when you couldn't even get into range before and the effect of the power actually takes effect now instead of allowing the DH user to just ignore everything.
It was not nerfed because it had to be waited out; it was nerfed because it provided way too strong of an effect.
I said old Decisive Strike, not old Dead Hard; to show how both are so powerful they have to be waited out just to make sure even if the survivor doesn’t even have the perk equipped.
New Dead Hard grants something old Dead Hard doesn’t btw, which is a speed boost when you tank a hit instead of just dodging it.
Against Trickster for example, if you had used old DH you would still have gone down to one more blade, where the new DH you get a free health state and speed boost as well as resetting the laceration meter so you have to build the power up from scratch again.
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Wasn’t old Ruin nerfed because it was punishing for newer players who couldn't to get better, even though it was ineffective against more skilled players.
Wasn’t old DS nerfed because it was so powerful it had to be respected by waiting it out, even though the player may not even have the perk.
Wasn’t Nurse nerfed because even though it took a lot of skill to use her, she was extremely effective in the right hands, and useless without the skill to use.
Isnt DH also these things; useless without the skill to use it and insanely strong when you do, have to wait it out just in case they have the perk, supremely effective against those who can’t counter it and the argument is if you can’t counter it then just get better.
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@Katzengott said:
I'm actually jealous of these chilled and uneffective survs some of you still get. It's like seeing these twitter posts were killers say they go for like 12 hooks without gen defense. But at the end it's still a 4K, right? So with MMR, why are they not getting matched against better teams?
I wish they would link forum accounts to game accounts so they could see when someone says ‘I 4K every game going for 12 hooks with no gen defence using all killers’ they can see if they actually play killer, how often and and what MMR, or if they are just lying/exaggerating to give a false impression.
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@th3syst3m said:
I'd be surprised if BHVR even attempts to optimize the game for last gen consoles at this point. The game has ran poorly for years on PS4, XBOX, and Switch. I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped all support on these platforms within a year or two.
I would rather they stop supporting the game on last gen consoles, rather than keep taking our money for a game that is neglected and in such a poor state of performance and optimisation.
It’s unacceptable really, and as said many times, it’s not the hardware at fault when many more demanding and impressive games run great on the same hardware; it’s just the neglect of any attempt at improving things for last gen console players as we are not valued as customers despite them still happily taking our money and time.
They actually make things worse by neglecting optimisation to add new lighting and graphics to please PC players who can constantly upgrade hardware to keep up with the performance hits.
Hell they haven’t even added basic controller options like dead zone or acceleration which most games have as default, in the entire games history of many years. It’s sad really and very depressing.
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Every time I’ve played new Eerie map, I’ve been the only person on a gen and then given the killer a good chase with no one still on gens and wondering why.
When I get hooked with Kindred I see 2 or 3 of them walking around on top floor of main building doing nothing for no reason 😭
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One about jumping on a gen with me start of the match and instantly missing a skill check.
Or after an unhook when we’re hiding and giving me a crucial heal, don’t try for great skill checks and miss it then run off.
Oh and after an unhook, the unhooked should get the window, don’t sandbag the injured person while you’re full health, especially if you haven’t been hooked yet either
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I would rather it be the 1 second extra to wiggle out, than current with Boil Over where controller players cannot control their character at all.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The developers have said repeatedly that it is not cheating and does not give a significant advantage in the majority of cases.
Saying voice chat does not give a significant advantage is very disingenuous tbh, if they did say that.
I think voice chat should be in the game itself, like other team games.
They would just have to police the toxicity like other games do and I think they reason they won’t is because toxicity is a large part of DbD content, and they’re worried stopping that in a meaningful way would hurt player numbers and it’s popularity with people who just play the game to be toxic.
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@Nazzzak said:
A killers means of tracking survivor is visual (scratch marks) while a survivors means of tracking killers is auditory (terror radius). There are colour blind settings to help killers who are sight impaired to better track marks, and now there will be something to help hearing impaired survivors. And it's in a way that doesn't benefit those survivors who can hear perfectly fine.
Adding auditory benefits to all killers helps more than just hearing impaired killers. It would be a buff to the entire killer base. No more mindgaming killers when out of line of sight, since they'll know when youve left the area. If the killer is distracted then its okay, they'll get told there's a survivor nearby so dont leave the area.
I’m colourblind and haven’t found they make any difference at all.
I still can’t see scratch marks on many maps, and still can’t see downed or hooked survivors on farm maps.
I don’t think they affect scratch marks at all tbh?
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@Mandy said:
For those that are not noticing any sway effects with this updated wiggle mechanic, can you grab me some video please?
On PS4 I can 100% feel the increased wiggle.
Used alone it wrenches me side to side but it is manageable to fight against with controller.
Coupled with Boil Over though and it is impossible to move forwards at all sometimes, even in the middle of the corn field with no obstructions; the killer just will not move in the forward direction and just gets thrown side to side.
It feels awful to not be in control of my character and I hope it gets looked into quickly as it’s very frustrating and unfairly punishing for controller players, even with the controller input changes mentioned to come with the patch.
As it doesn’t just cause sway but prevents forward movement altogether, I’ve seen some people having to crab walk with the forced sideways movement to make any progress toward a hook.
It honestly feels terrible and insanely debilitating on controller.
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This was exactly what Overwatch 1 did, where if you were in a premade group then the matchmaker would inflate their rating so they were matched with and against players of a higher MMR to compensate for the increased coordination.
Teams that just want to chill as friends would play against similar minded players once they play some games and the MMR balances out, so it’s not like they will be forever playing sweaty matches if they aren’t escaping every game.
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@Yoshirama said:
Hooks never breaking is a bad idea, the hooks are similar to a 3gen situation, you wasted a hook in a dead zone? That was up to you
Hook sabotage progression can destroy some perks like sabotage and toolboxes, I mean, you can see that someone is sabotaging and just going for another hook
Generation progression aura is just gonna make the current 3gen camping more efficient, killers should hunt survivors, no stay in the same place camping the 3gen. Just equip supervision (or whatever the Pig’s perk is named)
Something that encourage slugging is ever a good idea
Shadowborn it should be basekit
You say hooks never breaking is a bad idea, but that is in contrast to you saying something that encourages slugging is never a good idea; in a hook dead zone there is no option but to slug and wait for them to die. It’s not the same as a 3 gen because while you can still work on gens, a killer cannot reach hooks from some places when one is broken after a sacrifice, particularly on certain maps when the hook spawns are already so bad that it can sometimes be impossible to reach a hook even without one broken because of walls/floors not seeming to be taken into account when hooks are spawned
I think the old system was better when at least they respawned after a couple of minutes so at least it wasn’t a dead zone all match that survivors can keep running to when they know they will go down
Shadowborn should absolutely be basekit, or at least a slider in the options menu
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It’s unfairly punishing for console players as even with the controller improvements that apparently came with this latest patch, Boil Over prevents me from moving forward even in open cornfield with no obstructions.
It’s super frustrating and unfun to play against when I can’t even control my character.
I enjoy playing both sides but have switched to Survivor only until there are some changes so it’s not so oppressive against controller and console users like myself.
I feel it should get a complete rework, as it is people say it does nothing against PC killers and specifically targets console killers to make their experience miserable.
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Are the achievements not on console as I don’t see any?
I do think they kinda work like BP offerings as it says it increases BP gained from using event hooks/generators at the bottom of the item description.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3327437#Comment_3327437
Yup, I started a whole thread about this issue. As a console killer, the new wiggle system (even without Boil Over) is knocking me around a lot worse than before the patch. Boil Over is an absolute nightmare, it stops me moving forward at all and even crab walking isn't helping me maneuver through the environment to a hook. Boil Over = four minutes on the ground bleeding out. What fun perk design.
Meanwhile, I hit great skill checks as a survivor and the killer doesn't even sway, PC killers don't seem affected by wiggle at all, now. This patch made a real mess of things.
The devs know the controls are bad on console and they made it worse.
I’ve had this same trouble on PS4 today and started a thread in the Feedback section, but no replies as yet.
They said they improved controller input to make it easier with this patch, but as you say I sometimes cannot move the character forward even in the middle of a cornfield with no obstructions; where even with extreme sway if I was able to move forward I would be able to get to the hook.
The complete loss of control over my character feels awful and extremely frustrating.
Its another case of something no being an issue for PC players but unfairly punishing for console controller users.
I hope the look into it asap, though I’ll probably just play survivor instead in the meantime as it’s just too frustrating, unfair and unfun.
I enjoy playing both sides though so I’m really upset at this.
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@HugTheHag said:
I mean...if survivors need their 3 unique perks, why should killers get the adept with any 4k ? It's not exactly adept at this killer if you're not adept at their perks.
I'm with you on the "no one escapes through gate while having the 3 perks", I like giving hatch so, works for me.
Though real chads don't slug for the 4k, they either get the 4k or play a couple more games to get it naturally. Like real adepts !
Oh is that really how it’s going to work after the changes? You don’t even need to use the killer perks to get their adept??
I presumed it would be get a 4K while using their 3 perks?
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Maybe people trying to finish some challenges from the most recent archive?
There are some specific to the killer or perks that I finished today but also some kind of related like the Undetectable hits etc
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@LibidinousPsyche said:
I'm using the crow chick umm the artist I think the name is, and yes I'm using basic hit no crows, it's almost like everyone has dead hard on it has worked in past, just hasn't with her yet, another thing I noticed is I have the perk barb n chili, does this not work on white hooks when using her perk pain resonance? Thx.
ps. what perks would stop against the no one escapes besides dead hard, like any that come to mind if its getting ppl off a hook or ect.
All unhooked survivors get the Endurance status effect for a few seconds as default now, just in case you didn’t know that.
There is Borrowed Time which gives the unhooked survivor Endurance and a speed boost.
We’re Gonna Live Forever also grants the Endurance status.
The Styptic Agent addon for the medkit item also grants Endurance.
There’s Off The Record but that deactivates once the exit gates are powered after the last gen is completed.
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As survivor MMR is based on escapes, it’s less of a mercy and more that they don’t want their MMR to increase, or want to decrease it for easier games I feel.
The couple times I’ve had it happen it’s been where they are obvious way better than me and I try to drop them out the exit gate so another player doesn’t have to experience the same as me; or I’ll let the EGC kill them which afaik doesn’t raise or lower their MMR.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316276#Comment_3316276
I like to pick on Tru3 because he's such a donkey, but if he (and others) were in the tiny pool they claim to be, they might get 2-4 matches in a 6-8 hour stream.
I recall when BHVR was testing their different SBMM configs, and you could tell when they made it too accurate, because if you weren't dead in the middle of the MMR curve, the queue times got painful.
The time people play will be a factor I’m sure.
Tru3 plays on UK/EU servers and streams during the day when most people are at school or work, and gets very sweaty games until late afternoon when people are getting home and putting the game on, and there is a noticeable difference in skill of players he is matched with.
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The worst feeling playing Knight is when the guard spots someone, then moves through them to where they were when it spotted them, then proceed to follow their footsteps instead of taking the smartest pathing to reach them.
Even if when you placed the path directly on a survivor, the guard intercepted and hit them; it would still only be like Spirit with slight differences.
He moves faster but power is slower, more clunky, has to rotate through the different guards, and has a visual indication of where they will spawn. I presume it’s so safe to stop the guard getting a hit and then the Knight getting a hit right after, but that could be addressed by giving the Knight a slight slowdown if in the guards circle when it scores a hit.
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@Erenior said:
Tunneling is a strategy. Maybe not a good or fair one, at least for the player that is tunneled.
Dbd by design starts with the killer in a somewhat hefty disadvantage (otzdarva talked in one of his videos about that). On top of that comes the Gen rushing which might be an additional issue that provokes tunneling even more. The killer can take one player out of the equation and bind maybe even more players from doing gens (cuz they go for the unhook). I don't say it is a good thing but I can understand why. Managing 3 survivors is just easier and most humans tend to the easiest or least stressful path, even in games.
Maybe a good way to incentive anti-tuneling is to reward the killer more for injuring and/or hooking more/other players?
I think this is the only reasonable answer. There needs to be more incentive for the killer to not remove a player asap that is not tied to perks.
Something that makes the game more manageable with gen speeds and map size.
I think a debuff to injured survivors or something would be good, as there is still times when it’s just better to rush a gen injured so it pops in the killers face despite knowing you’ll go down.
I don’t even know if that would be enough due to the insanely fast healing speeds atm.
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As mentioned above, there is the new Chainsaw Massacre game coming out.
Also the 2022 Chainsaw Massacre movie was a Netflix production so there is a little worry it might be Stranger Things again.
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@FellowKillerMain said:
From what I understand this game was strewn together from pre-defined assets and code libraries. Meaning that everything they used to create the game was built by someone else, so to optimize it, they need to reconstruct it, or hire people who know how to refactor all their existing code - they might even need to rebuild things from the ground up. They likely have the money to do that, but it may not be cost effective to hire the manpower to make that work, so instead they try to optimize where they can which leaves them where they are now.
I'm trying to be optimistic. The pessimist in me thinks that they have only so many man hours set aside to work on this, and it's low priority because of console population sizes and how much those players contribute to their overall revenue. That's business, though.
They said the were going to optimise the game to run 60fps, but instead decided to update the graphics and add new lighting and effects which actually made the performance worse; and since then spend time updating things like the pallet and breakable wall graphics.
I think collectively console users make up a huge portion of the playerbase, and if they aren’t spending as much then I would say that is because of the games poor optimisation.
I have definitely stopped spending money because it feels like a waste when I don’t feel I’m valued as a player on the format I play on.
As said above; even if performance wasn’t improved, there are small quality of life changes they could add such as basic dead zone and controller acceleration options which would show they at least are still considerate of console users struggles.
As is though I for one feel neglected as a player and format, like my time and money isn’t valued as much as PC; and I feel very jaded because of it.
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@Brokenbones said:
What do you think is an issue or problem that's DBD related that isn't talked about or discussed enough?
Majority of us all know about the usual hot topics and how they are talked about to death; SWFs, Nurse, The meta and so on but what's something you see and go "Why aren't more people talking about this?" Maybe it gets overshadowed or forgotten quickly.
Also it doesn't have to be something strictly game related it could be something about the community, the forums, content creators (In a general sense, not individuals) and so on.
I'm curious to know
The abysmal state of last gen console performance.
Its been in an awful state for years and getting worse, especially since Nemesis.
Its not the hardware as much more demanding games run great because the are properly optimised.
Just upgrade or they will never be able to fix it isn’t good enough when they still take peoples money on those older platforms.
They almost never talk about it but have kept people hanging on for years with empty promises of improvements that never come; presumably hoping people will get tired and switch hardware, having to rebuy everything again and regrind everything because no cross progression.
Cross progression will be their answer to the issue as well rather than actual improvements I’d put money on.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020284#Comment_3020284
Just want to correct this, we will continue to support our characters in the game - they can still receive buffs/nerfs/bug fixes etc.
To the main topic, there's no plans for individual killer changes in the upcoming mid chapter.
Will the faster overall pallet break speed not affect Demo/Nemi breaking pallets with their powers?
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The devs did say changes to solo were coming in the form of the icons that show when players are healing or being chased etc.
If not with this patch I would imagine the following patch along with some balance changes.
Some of the survivor changes sound pretty crazy strong, solo or not!