DarKStaR350z
DarKStaR350z
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813591#Comment_3813591
Tell me you're a killer main without telling me you're a killer main
That’s always the cop out answer to disregard anything you don’t agree with, I play both sides equally and I’m solo when playing survivor so understand the frustrations of teammates quitting and ruining the game for the rest of us; but if you played both sides yourself then you would sympathise with the killer side instead of saying it’s always the killers fault for survivors playing badly then quitting. If they cared about the survivor experience they would stick it out.
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I don’t know why survivors give up so easily; playing killer can be just as annoying and if I had a way to leave without getting a DC penalty I might use it when I get put up against a team with offerings that spread hook placement, Boil Over, sabotage and flashlights/bangs, Dead Dog or Errie as I know it’s not going to be a fun match.
I guess killers have had to develop thicker skin over the years and are just used to suffering. And talking about hit boxes what about that Head On hit box and how long it lasts, how about getting pallet stunned when you’re no where near it.
It’s always the same arguments, killer OP as they have a power where I can’t run pallet to pallet and make them break every one, or map traversal so I can’t just sit on a gen and knock it out faster than the killer can walk across the map to it.
It’s unfair killers can use aura reading it’s only fair when survivors use it etc etc.Fact is even when survivor was at its strongest there were still rampant DCs before the penalty and it was even encouraged by some ex fog whisperers. Survivors have always quit over the slightest thing because they only seem to be happy when making YouTube bully compilations and easily winning while rubbing the killers nose in it.
If a killer only moved the same speed as survivor you’d get DCs if they ever got a down probably.
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@nikodemo said:
Easy changes that should come to DbD much sooner rather than later.
- Map Offerings should BAN realms, not prioritize them. Maps are unbalanced and the offerings provides too strong an influence over everyone else's game. a Ban is a much more measured ability.
- Exit Gates should regress to the last light bulb when not being actively used. 99'ing gates can extend the game too much with minimal risk for the survivors. One tap gate opening should go the way of one tapping gen repair.
- Remove the base unhook functionality. Too many ppl these days skirt the DC penalty by suicide on hook, making it unfair for the rest of the players. Leave that ability for the anti-camp mechanic and perks. Honestly, even the skill checks on second hook could go.
- Daily Rituals are mostly forgotten and their rewards overshadowed at this point. It would be nice if they provided 2 or 3 rituals per day for each role, and rewards should be at least 100k BP. this will ensure each role always has something to do and better incentivize people to take the time to do them which will add variety to the game.
I agree with all these.
If unhooking yourself goes maybe lobby dodging and last second switching could go as well.
Even if you only got 1 daily for each role it would be an improvement over the current system. -
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810645#Comment_3810645
There was no incentive to slug in 2v8 because there were no pallets and flashlights, but it still happened and happened frequently enough that they are making changes to address it now. They did not have any legitmate reasons to slug in 2v8 but many killers showed that they don't need a legitmate reason to do it, if they can they will because it was easier and some people have fun doing it. I understand your worry that because they have to counter flashlights and pallets they may slug more, but if they slugged without those things, then what is the solution?
A more simple solution would be to just send downed survivors directly to a cage, as you say there’a no reason to slug as it only took a second to send them yourself even if you want to chase another close by survivor.
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@Altan said:
Title
As the other commenter said the licence was removed and you could no longer buy the characters for some time so the achievements were removed and their perks made generic and available to everyone.
The achievements were turned into other ones such as ‘escape using only 3 generic perks’ and those who already had the adept achievements automatically had those completed; they’re listed under Chapter XIII on the achievement list iirc. -
@Unequalmitten86 said:
I have also seen Killers DC for a lot of reasons too. So it's not just survivors. Survivors there are more of but Killers have this mentality too.
Absolutely; while it does seem less common particularly as survivors can hook Kobe to dodge any penalty, I’ve definitely lost challenges I would’ve got because the killer decided they weren’t doing well enough or couldn’t catch one survivor and DC’d - and it’s equally as annoying or frustrating.
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They should’ve healed before trying for the save and if any one of the survivors had been using Kindred then they would’ve been able to do that easily, though if they were all trying for the save they should’ve been able to see each other.
Also the reason Windows of Opportunity is so popular is because it shows which pallets have been already used by your team which is especially useful in solo queue. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809267#Comment_3809267
No, survivors are expected to sit in a game holding a button, watching a bar slowly fill up for four minutes unless they dedicate 25% of their perk loadout to this specific situation.
You can always get picked up by a teammate; the only time this could be griefing is if they down everyone and make no attempt to pick anyone up.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809279#Comment_3809279
I understand most matches ended up being 'free', and it was just who got that roll of the dice. However, I see this as a feature, not a flaw. Back then, you would know the next match very well might just be your 'free win', so you could afford to run the goofy builds and still win while having fun. It made the game less sweaty, and more enjoyable, at least for what I want out of the game.
That's also why 'carrying as a duo' felt possible, you got the 'free win' that roll of the dice. Killer is different, since they are already designed to win 50%-100% (multiplicatively) more often than Survivor. I wasn't a fan of the ultra sweat-fest matches, so I didn't always play immediately after resets. The people who did, were still afforded that opportunity, as well as customs as always.
I can also understand the desire for an ultra-sweat environment, the problem is that this game ain't it. When they had the intense limitations, Dowsey had 2hr+ queues as Twins. The game was literally unplayable, because the playerbase isn't large enough. It's the big fish little pond issue. That's why I always encourage people who actually want to sweat to take it to DOTA, or SC, or CS, or customs on a Discord channel purpose built to sweat.
The largest problem with balancing for SWF, is you can't just punish people for playing with their friends. They will just hard quit the game, to find a place where they aren't punished for playing together. Heck, most SWFs aren't even sweating. Nearly no one is actually calling clocks, but that is the image in main-brain Killer players when they hear the term 'SWF'. Most of my SWF (half of which quit the game since it got so bad,) brings meme perks like Invocation of Spiders or trolls us with No Mither. So any nerf to SWF is flawed in its conception, without a counter-balance of a single bad perk negating everyone elses limitations.
I agree in a sense that soloq is an entirely different experience, one where horror and suspense lies around every corner, but the problem is that the horror comes mostly from your soloq teammates. "How are they going to throw this match" is the looming dread each time you hit the play button, not anything from the Killer. Heck, the most suspense you get from the Killer is "are they going to bleed us out or not". Every one of these is such a horrible experience, that it should never have had the potential to be real in the first place. Soloq is only a place to do tomes and dailies, fun is illegal there, because if you try, one of the other players WILL ruin your day. The only question is who. (It's Feng/Sable/Mikaela 90% of the time for Survivor, Blight/Plague/SM 90% of the time for Killer IME.)
SWF don’t have to clock call out to have an advantage, simply killer is chasing me do gens, don’t unhook I have Deliverance live, killer is by shack, Hex Totem main building bottom floor; give a massive advantage over solo players. And when it comes to MMR playing with friends in other games is ‘punished’ by having them matched with killers equal to the highest players rating, or even slightly higher as it factors the group into it because it’s accepted it makes a difference to a bunch of solos queuing.
You say your teammates troll you by bringing bad perks that deliberately put you at a disadvantage, but you can’t balance for that as it becomes unbalanced for those trying to play the game as intended. In that case your issue should be with your teammates who you say are trolling you and not crying ‘killer op’ and expecting the game to let you win in situations where you are being sabotaged by your team. You have to think about the killer experience as well and having the game balanced so you lose when people are playing bad or bringing perks to troll their team would just feel awful and unfair.I hate all this killer main survivor main stuff. Most people play both sides and want both to be fun. I see the solo queue struggles myself when my teammates are playing hide and seek instead of playing the objective; you get it in other games too where people would rather throw by all staying in spawn with snipers rather than actually capture the objective and it’s frustrating, but that should be directed at the team and not the enemy team as it’s not their fault. I also know how frustrating it is to play against a team playing well and efficiently and feeling like you just can’t keep up not matter how well you’re playing and how fast you are getting downs, and it’s not even always SWF but just solos playing the objective with decent game sense and perks, and it makes the game 100x more stressful as the big bad killer while the survivors are just able to chill as long as they are efficient and play as a team.
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807023#Comment_3807023
Personally I really disliked the rank-based matchmaking (both the original one based on bloodpoints and the emblem one), it led to way too many "free" and boring matches as killer or in a full SWF due to awfully lacking opposition, and solo matches were a complete crapshoot. I mean, these were the matchmaking systems under which various killer winstreaks in the hundreds had already existed, despite the game having had a plethora of ridiculous stuff for survivors back then none of today's stuff comes close to.
I will say that duos back then were more enjoyable because you could actually more reliably carry two randoms against the regularly pretty subpar killers and it was sort of a welcome challenge, whereas these days it feels like even one random is often too much of a liability. And during the first week after rank reset, you would usually get a more consistent quality of players in the high ranks, although that was mostly only due to those people being the ones that played a ton, which tends to correlate with skill/sweat level. But at latest after week two red ranks were full of anyone that played a match or two every other day, win or lose.
I was elated when they first started implementing kill and escape-based MMR because it promised to lead to much more consistently competitive matches. Which it absolutely did at first and still at least more so than the old matchmaking systems does to this day despite having become more and more relaxed and with more and more players reaching the MMR cap. If they were to at least make the upper MMR brackets more strict it wouldn't impact most players, while helping where it's really needed, giving the top 1% (and the top 0.1%) of players an actual challenge more often than once in a blue moon. There's a ton of very experienced and skilled players out there being mixed into a huge pool of players that are just nowhere up to par. Raising/removing the MMR cap and changing the matchmaker algorithm such that it looks for closer rating matches beyond a certain MMR threshold is a no-brainer change in my mind. Especially these days where frequent modifiers promise respite for experienced/skilled players if the argument is that they would grow tired of having real competition in matches regularly. Players with 90+% winrates or long winstreaks should be meeting each other which they currently almost never are, and if it takes them 5-10 minutes to find each other so be it, that at least might change some of these players' minds about sweating hard for the win every time. Plus if they were to actually more regularly meet other such players, their winrates and streaks wouldn't even get to that point in the first place, meaning their MMR wouldn't keep increasing either to where they'd only meet other winstreakers. It's just absurd that someone can have won 1000+ matches in a row, and yet their queue still pops after <1 minute and gives them the next hopelessly lost group of randoms that barely manage to get 1 gen done before they're all dead. Hell, it would already be a major improvement if BHVR implemented special rules where players with an 80+% winrate over their last 100 matches or 20+-match winstreak would get put into special pools where the game first tries to find a match for them, pitting them then against other such players.
The balance shift between solo and SWF is definitely more subjective, it would of course benefit game balance to make solo more SWF-like since it makes the game overall easier to balance, just like getting the killers closer together does (which I also think should all fall within a range of what we currently know as B to A tier, nerfing S+ and buffing C- killers). But apart from the fact that you can also get SWF and solo closer together for balance purposes by nerfing SWF which I think is preferable route (specifically by implementing loadout restrictions for SWFs), I personally simply like that solo is essentially a different gamemode, where lacking all of that info is part of the appeal and point. And not necessarily in a horror sense of being afraid (although jumpscares and tension still exist in this game, and much more so in solo of course), but in the sense that many things are simply unknown to you at many given points, and navigating that state of being in the dark with strangers is the survival-type horror gameplay many people look for in DbD. While I much prefer to play in coordinated teams with voice comms and scrims and like that it becomes a much more strategical teamplay game in that environment, I still enjoy dabbling in solo, for that stark contrast in playing experience.
Yes, baseline changes to alleviate the issues of tunnelling could also be things that simply make the resulting 3v1 be less decisively skewed in the killer's favour, such as by increasing the gen repair speed of the remaining survivors, the amount depending on how many hook stages happened before that sacrifice. And yes, collision should absolutely be removed during those 10 seconds of unhook invincibility.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807438#Comment_3807438
There would definitely be much fewer survivors than killers in such a more strict high MMR pool, simply because it takes a good/sweaty 3/4-player SWF to consistently escape, which are indeed vastly less common than good/sweaty killer players. But the idea is not to have the matchmaking be so strict here that it looks until it finds someone appropriate, but that it at least spends the first few minutes trying to look within a more limited pool. This would obviously escalate with just how ridiculous a respective player's winrate/streak is, having the matchmaker look for longer and longer times within more and more exclusive pools. I don't think it's ridiculous that someone that's won hundreds or thousands of matches in a row should expect for the game to spend 5-10 minutes seeing whether it can't give them at least a bit of a challenge rather than create the next non-match.
Certainly there is much room for improvement with the current matchmaking paradigm, which seems to be "make sure queue times coalesce around <1 minute, no matter what". And be it with some special rules such as I alluded to above, where it has nothing to do with MMR value but will simply be looking at the winrate of players and create pools for those with high rates and streaks that they're preferentially queued into before mixing them in with the general populace.
I definitely think they should look into hooks instead of just kills for MMR and balancing, i think it would be much more healthy for the game.
Also instead of just escape it should take into account what a survivor does during the match similar to the old emblem system, that way someone who runs the killer all game would rank up while someone who hid all game doing nothing wouldn’t even though they escaped.
I think it’s why we have this mess in solo queue where really bad survivors have ranked up while some people feel they are stuck in an MMR hell they can’t climb out of because it’s so reliant on your teammates performance. I think we would see a massive improvement in match quality. -
@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809192#Comment_3809192
Only way those structures hold their strength is if the killer keeps respecting pallets and survivors greed.
Once pallets are gone, the loop is broken to be half it's strength if that.
Would be better to just hold w to a loop that still has resources.
There’s plenty of ridiculously strong vault loops tbf, you don’t need pallets to loop, they just extend or let you move to a different loop, or give the vault time to unblock
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Similar happened to me tonight when I never get any issues normally.
Was losing a game while trying to do a challenge and when I turned the game round with one on hook, one being carried to hook, and another failed to body block me and went down - all of a sudden I get disconnected dedicated server stopped responding.
Survivors got their bp, I got nothing and lost challenge progress.
Recorded the game but don’t know how to report it as not sure who caused it and you need the player ID to report both in game and using the form, so not sure what to do about it. -
@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809098#Comment_3809098
Top killers have shown that it's not possible to win chases. Pallets are literally useless against the majority of killers, especially if they know what they are doing.
I haven't said anything about killer having no agency but if you think unbiased then you'll see survivors have no agency. I think both sides should have agency.
If you play both sides then you know they both have agency.
If you’re talking about top killers then look at competitive players where they have to ban lots of survivor perks and only a couple of killers are played because the game is too heavily survivor favoured otherwise.If either side played perfectly then it would go to that side, but neither plays perfectly and that’s what creates mind games for both sides at pallets even against killers that can better play around them like Pyramid Head; you’re never going to hit all of your shots and there’s elements of prediction for both survivor and killer.
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808746#Comment_3808746
Using main buildings as an example for how looping is still viable is, i hate to say, disingenuous.
Killers have no reason to loop there once the generator has been completed in that area.
Those buildings are known to be nerfed ie Haddonfield (Best killer map rn).
If the killer doesn’t chase you there then they are islands of safety you can run to from anywhere on the map using the speed boost when hit and reset/heal there.
If everyone runs there when injured then killer has to commit at some point gen done or not, as otherwise injuring creates no pressure.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808901#Comment_3808901
If you are a killer main, it's what you want to blame it on and say it's entitlement or survivors are just bad but this is not an issue for killer role and not in other PvP games either unless it's very unbalanced. Players are not sticking around if are no winning chances. It's the dev responsibility to address balance issues and ensure players have a sense of objective worth.
If you aren’t winning chases then it really is a skill issue and ragequitting isn’t going to help you get better and win more chases.
Its entirely possible to win chases and survivors already have many second chances with endurance/DS/god pallets etc.You can’t expect the game to be balanced around players who can’t win chases because then it’s unbalanced for those who can.
I don’t think people will be happy until the killer has no agency at all.It’s not the killer you’re screwing over by leaving, it’s the other 3 survivors who just want to play the game as it is.
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@dwight444 said:
fix the crappy solo aspects of the game or people will continue to dc and give up. It's totally warranted, hopeless matches are no longer few and far between, they're pretty damn common in my experience (I see people with similar experiences on the forum but I can't attest to their experiences).
People play the game to have fun, nothing is fun about some guy tunneling a teammate out in the beginning which your solo team is unlikely to recover from because matchmaking sucks; so your 3 randoms have 0 clue how to handle the tunneling. Worst yet, trying to recover from this when 1 teammate is doing stuff like unhooking asap in front of killer or refusing to be a member of the team.
Nothing is fun about realizing at 4 gens that the game is over and dying now/quitting is the most efficient option to get the most out of your time. It takes forever to find a lobby, queue up, and load into the actual game (not accounting for lobbies where someone leaves and makes this much longer). Yet, your match can be determined in 2 minutes.
If there is this giant DC/give up pandemic, does no one have the idea to figure out why? Surely, we should advocate for harsher punishments which will drive people away from the game because no one is gonna get a 10 min DC and wait it out, they'll slowly gravitate to another game. These are the same solo q players you rely on to not have abysmal queue times….
Address tunneling being so rewarding, address the not-strategic forms of slugging, address players humping other players til they bleed out and not simply saying 'slugging is not a bannable offense' which is such an ignorant take, let solo players have some form of comms. At least make it seem like you have some sort of idea about the state of solo q and have plans to do something about it. Otherwise, let people quit if they want to. There are too many abusable mechanics in this game that make for a miserable time as an individual
I can’t believe people are trying to justify this kind of selfish entitled mentality.
You’re complaining about the killer ruining your experience, but are happy to ruin things for the other 3 survivors because only you are entitled to do that, and only you are entitled to play how you want within the rules of the game.Being chased is supposed to be the most fun part and doing gens is boring, then people are complaining about being chased because they can’t sit on gens. Someone has to get found first.
If you want 12 hook games then the survivor objective has to be balanced around that as 5 gens takes way less time than 12 hooks and you have 4 people completing it bs 1 killer; make hooking different survivors more rewarding like perks such as Pain Res do which is complained about as well.
You talk about piñatas and that’s all you want killers to be, bots there for your fun and nothing more.
Put all these rage quitters together in a seperate queue and let them be on the receiving end of their own behaviour so they can understand how destructive it is. You have some bad games and some good ones, you just have to play them out. Or rather you should have to play them out and I hope the devs do something to encourage and force it. If some of those players move to another game then good riddance.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808484#Comment_3808484
30 seconds from one corner to the opposite corner of a map is extremely small, and almost every map has that time or shorter to do this. Holding W does not allow you to go from one side of the map to the other. Survivors get at MOST 3 tiles of distance before they're forced to play a tile since the middle of almost every map is either a dead zone or filler pallets, not to mention the other tiles that have already been used by the survivors.
Also knowing when to take a health state and apply pressure to gens is a game sense skill as killer. If you're choosing to chase a survivor to the opposite edge of the map when the last 3 gens are on the initial side of the map, that's a poor play. Taking a health state is massive pressure for the killer since, by that time, the survivor medkits are most likely depleted, and it would require another survivor to come heal them. Also, by that time, one if not two survivors have already been sacrificed. That means at most 1 person is doing a gen that will take them 90 seconds to complete fully. There's multiple layers of nuance for these situations, but saying "just hold W" as a scapegoat is disingenuous to the state of its effectiveness, as it does not provide as much value as killers would like you to think, especially if the killer player knows what they are doing.
Injured survivors can still finish gens, and if you don’t commit to a down some point it really doesn’t apply pressure and if they’re running Resiliance then actually makes gens fly faster.
30 seconds isn’t nothing as it’s a third of a gen with 1 survivor on it. Take into account as well that it’s not uncommon for 3 gens to pop by the time a killer has found is survivor, gotten through enough resources to injure and down the first survivor, walked to a hook, then walked to where the next survivors might be.Time is everything for the killer and as long as survivors stick to gens unless chased off and downed it applies more pressure than at least m1 killers can deal with simply due to time to down if the survivor isn’t new and going down in 10 seconds plus the time to traverse the enormous maps.
Once the centre gen is done in RPD even though it was split in half good luck walking between gens on opposite sides; and if no one is dead by the time there are 1/2 gens left good luck stopping 4 survivors swarming them with only base regression.
Good luck with McMillian as well with that ridiculously strong main building in between and reachable from all the gens if you run as soon as you hear the TR or get hit and use the speed boost. -
@Royval said:
what if I get no mither on chaos shuffle that’s go next every time
You know that is a potential outcome when queueing for that game mode and are expected to play the game out to the best of your ability.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808181#Comment_3808181
First off, no he did not. If he did, he would have seen that the nature of my post wasn't "nerf gen regression only period" but rather providing alternatives to the base game loop that would provide depth to both survivor and killer to make gens not the only priority. Saying "play high MMR with no slowdown and tell me how it goes" is proof he did not read the whole post.
Secondly, 60% kill rate tells you at least 7 hook states are being taken in a match out of 12. You're right that it's arbitrary, and I think it's fair to ask why such an arbitrary number was selected.
Thirdly, saying it's the most experimental meta we've seen proves my point. You don't need 4 slowdown to win. You can run whatever you want on most killers because the devs have shrunk maps to fractions of their original sizes, they have killed almost every tile in this game and replaced them with garbage filler tiles that offer no safety, and the base killer mechanics provide so much pressure, you are almost guaranteed at least a 2k every match. Putting on 4 slowdown makes it almost impossible for the survivors to win, which was one of the points of my post.
Lastly, gens fly if you cannot secure a good chase in the first 70 seconds of the match. There are certain killers where that is understandable, like Myers. On killers like blight? That is a skill issue. There are blights that end games in 70 seconds with full aura builds. A single gen takes 90 seconds. Gens are flying just as often as pigs do. So what a killer loses one gen to a brand new part + commodious toolbox at the beginning of the match? Does that really matter when the pop + pain res + grim embrace combo grinds the game to a halt? If you can't start the killer snowball to force survivors off gens, that's a skill issue problem.
Yes they’ve shrunk some maps but most are still so big it can take 30 seconds or so to walk from one gen to another the opposite side of the map; and if you hit a survivor by it then they can just hold W and make it to the opposite side of the map, making it impossible to defend some gens on some maps unless the killer has a map traversal ability or some power to quickly down someone without having to m1 them.
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I recommend checking out this guy on YouTube who has some great guides for Xeno; I think this video has a great explaination of the tail mechanics:
https://youtu.be/_RO3kuX_-BQ?si=9k0uWXMOTJnGRZcE -
I’d love to see more variety in killers, though a lot of people seem to hate playing against anything other than chase killers; like Hag, original Freddy, Doctor etc.
I’d really like more stealth killers as it’s the only time the game can feel really scary again for me at least.
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I’d trade both 3rd Seal and Knockout to get rid of Boil Over as well
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807490#Comment_3807490
and how do you propose people who are casual players learn that? Not everyone is on thousands of hours and engaging with discussion groups and streamers like here. They just want to boot the game up and play it. The game doesn’t teach you how to loop effectively. Game doesn’t even do an adequate job at teaching you what each killer is like and how best to counter them. There isn’t time in match to watch and learn a lot of the time. It’s literally learning by experience, but if all the experience you get is the ever changing maps which are getting smaller and loops getting less safe then what can you really learn? Nothing. It’s a casual game - or that’s how behaviour sell it. I’m quite an experienced survivor and even I’m not entirely sure what these methods are you mention. None-the-less, one shouldn’t have to deep dive into specialist methods to successfully loop. It’s an unfair expectation when it can just be better balanced.
What game does though?
Tekken teaches basic combos but not how to use frame traps or spacing; Call of Duty teaches how to duck and shoot but not how to peek or pre fire, games don’t teach map knowledge it comes with time practice and a desire to improve.
All you’re trying to do is keep the killer as far away as possible so it’s not rocket science to learn you keep them on the opposite side of obstacles and run away to safety when you can.
It doesn’t take the time you’re suggesting to get the basic knowledge, like any game when you want to improve you can find a 10 minute YouTube video on how to run away from the killer etc. Once you have the knowledge the rest comes with practice and time in game like every game and sure the more time you can put in the more improvement you’ll see sooner. But the same is true of every game.
If MMR worked properly then you should be facing players of similar skill levels so the killer won’t know how to loop either and miss hits etc, but MMR is another topic.
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@ErebusSurge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/428019/how-do-survivors-want-killers-to-play
in a game of hide and seek you should be required to use some skill to seek, as you are to hide. Perma wall hacks isn’t exactly difficult is it. Most people probably wouldn’t play killer if they didn’t have a constant visual of survivors.
What perks give perma wall hacks and a constant visual of survivors?
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807439#Comment_3807439
As if. No one in soloq knows how to chain a loop nvm running main structures perfectly.
15 mins ago I had a Haddie drop the corner pallet by the freezer room and then didn't even loop that correctly. She then proceeded to do no gens, leave me to die on hook 2 stages and then left with sole survivor.
Exactly, it’s a lack of knowledge and desire to learn to get better on a lot of players parts, rather than it being an issue with loops. There’s some crazy strong things you can do, they just take more skill and knowledge than just throw pallet and be safe until killer breaks it; though there’s still plenty of those as well.
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@Paternalpark said:
These videos from tatorhead will be irrelevant soon. Look at Decimated Borgo and The Unknowns map for examples of how BHVr are balancing maps now.
SwAmp and haddonfield got reworked recently, and while their main buildings were untouched, there are massive dead zones in both maps corners essentially making the map even smaller.
Smart killers will leave players who are using main buildings/strong loops and go for the the rest of the map that is just 50/50.
Problem is that most of the main buildings you can reach after being hit from most of the map away with the exception of some killers, and what do you do when the whole team knows this and keeps running to them? Unless you catch someone injured you’ll never get any pressure as they’ll just run to safety you don’t have time to waste running as killer and then reset/heal.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806687#Comment_3806687
Like you said, No Mither/Invocation Lobby Dodging if you tell people too early. That's why I understand the loading screen at the earliest is probably the best place. The pause menu in-game should have their perks next to their offerings.
I guess people could check as soon as they get in game and if they don’t like it just Kobe to go next
Would be a shame as that little change would make a big difference to solo survivors.
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@Ghostraider628 said:
I am a new player and I am a survivor main, I need some help to decide who I should purchase for new players.
Kate is a good one as Windows of Opportunity is great for learning where to run to when chased.
She has Dance With Me which can help escape chases and pairs well with Quick and Quiet off Meg who is a default survivor, and Lithe which is off Feng Min and free if you’re on console.Some of the default survivor perks and the standard perks are decent though.
Bond and Prove Thyself off Dwight, Sprint Burst off Meg, Empathy off Claudette. Deja Vu and Kindred are standard perks and really good. -
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806886#Comment_3806886
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806887#Comment_3806887
You are right, my bad, didn't pay enough attention to it.
Then it's another useless statistic from BHVR, lol. Good to know that Distortion Sable having 0 seconds of chase per match and me with 2 minutes of chase per match both have 1 minute on average.Yeah the statistic is useless as it doesn’t tell you how much of it is made up of Megs who get hit and run into a dead zone going down in 10 seconds, which offsets those who know to run to the ridiculous main buildings or pseudo infinites a lot of maps have.
It also doesn’t factor in the time it takes to walk across the massive maps, finding someone, picking up and walking to hook, walking to a gen to kick etc. It’s not like chases a run back to back with no downtime between, and how there’s multiple survivors on gens so gen time isn’t 1:1 with time to chase/hook 1 person etc.
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
It's pretty comical how the killer players will come here to tell you that looping is fine and healthy because they only play killer. One of the major flaws with this game is that it doesn't force these types of people into both roles. The game would be more balanced and healthy if everyone were forced to play with the terrible game design the developers continue to push. Solo queue is the worst online gaming experience I've ever had in an online PvP title. The real kicker is that it wasn't always like this. The developers made it unplayable intentionally.
The same used to be said about forcing survivors to play killer so they understand the other side, and it was met with ‘if you force someone to play something they don’t want to then they’ll troll and ruin the game for everyone else’.
You’re really making a lot of assumptions though and I think you’ll find much less that only play killer than only play survivor, and even less that will only play 1 killer and not at least a couple if not a good chunk of the roster. Playing with and against a variety of killers is really the only thing that makes the game feel fresh tbh.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805979#Comment_3805979
Yeah competitive 1on1 games shows how winstreaks really shouldn't happen in excess of 100 in a truly balanced game. As great as insert your favorite pro here is, they lost one of the tourney matches, even if they won the set.
Don't get me wrong, clock SWFs are a pain to deal with, but honestly they nearly never happen. They actually finish the game in ~4 minutes, so most of the complaints are about close 15-20 minute matches that the Killer lost due to a skill issue.
That's why I'm for balancing around a 60% winrate these days, rather than a 60% killrate. 60% killrate yields nearly 70% winrates, which is much too high. Like you said, 4-SWF at 48% escape is actually remotely fair for everyone playing.
One feature that really should be implemented, is Survivor loadouts visible to fellow Survivors during the match. Tap escape really quick and see the person has Unbreakable, so let them be slug camped. Hooked in basement? Check for Wicked or Deliv, and pump gens.
I can’t see any reason why survivors can’t see each other’s perks at the start of the match in the lobby, aside from lobby dodging maybe.
It really seems like a small change that would make a huge difference for solo survivor QoL by giving them information that SWF already have.
There really doesn’t seem to be any downside to adding this during the match as you suggest. -
It definitely happens the other way around too.
During Lights Out 2.0 I was chased off hook by a Dracula, thought I’d lost him and picked up a Candelabra but he found me again; he swung and hit me which knocked the Candelabra out my hand but did not trigger my Endurance or down me despite being injured off hook. Next hit triggered Endurance and third hit downed me.
Wasn’t a laggy match at all.I definitely feel it more when I play killer and it goes for a gen/vault grab animation only to cancel it into an attack that often doesn’t hit them.
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I’ve always thought exit gates should automatically regress even if only slowly like gens.
It would force survivors to open the gates and activate end game perks like Bloodwarden; or someone would have to stay at the gate to keep it ready to open which would mean they couldn’t all be swarming the hook and if they were they couldn’t just leave by tapping the switch.
We had to wait years for them to get rid of gen tapping and I think this is something similar that should go. -
You don’t need to be on comma to sit on gens when not being chased and to last more than 10 seconds in chase by throwing a god pallet or running to a ridiculously strong main building. It’s not the killers fault your random teammates don’t know how to play the game and don’t want to learn or get better.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806520#Comment_3806520Of course it has to be taken into consideration.
If gameplay against some killer or tactic is miserable they should be balancing on it.
Skull merchant is miserable and has to be changed, legion or plague with thana is miserable aswell, why not change that?
Balumba has too much of a buff? Let's figure it out.
Blight, nurse or spirit has high suicide rate? Let's figure out why and change that.
We need this to be taken into consideration, period.
No.
The mechanic that allows ruining games for 4 others by bypassing the DC penalty needs to go.
Complaints around balance can be raised to the devs through the forums like all other feedback.
Even if survivors had an 80% chance to escape, people would still ‘go next’ on a whim.
I see people give up because they failed a pallet save or got downed trying to get to a flashlight blind. It’s not the killers fault people act selfish and entitled, it’s the fact there’s a system in game that allows the behaviour to happen without an repercussions.
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There’s a lot of talk about making the game more fun for survivor so they don’t bypass the DC penalty to go next, but how about when it’s not fun for killers?
How many do you think would just walk out the exit or jump in a hatch if they lost 3 gens before first down or the first chase took too long? Not having that option to bypass the DC penalty seems to be working on that side. How about we give them an option to get out the game early without penalty and see how that goes, see if you are all arguing for the game to be more fun for killers or if you just want their way to bypass the penalty removed.
It’s also funny to see that when it comes to survivors people say punishments don’t work and we should make things more fun etc, but when it comes to tunnelling the argument is never to make hooking different survivors a better option but always to remove it or punish killers for trying to do it. So carrot for survivors, stick for killers - seems fair and reasonable.
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@Xernoton said:
Queue times over the last couple days have been pretty short for both sides on EU servers. I reckon that might have something to do with the Lights Out modifier but it definitely doesn't look like nobody wants to play survivor. If anything, I haven't seen the survivor incentive exceed 50% since (it's mostly 25% or nothing at all), so that would indicate that the ratio between killers and survivors is better than usual.
This is my experience in EU as well; survivor incentive for both the event and regular is 25%/50%, and despite that killer still gets into a game quicker than when I queue for survivor.
I feel it means more people are playing in groups on the survivor side or my queues would be quicker when I’m playing survivor and the bonus is on survivor side. -
@Adrien said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/427275/pleaseee-bhvr-buff-solo-queue
As a solo Q survivor main, I can feel it.
The following solo Q buffs feel necessary :
- Make the survivor aura (not the killer one) from Kindred a basekit feature.
- Show loadouts icons in the "Escape" menu in game.
- For the anti-camp mechanic, show the filling bar to all survivors.
- Add HUD when Deliverance, Reassurance, Wicked are active and when Camaraderie can be activated, with a timer icon. Those clutch perks feel useless in solo Q because no one can coordinate around it.
- Remove the 4% unhook mechanic basekit to tone down impulsive griefing/rage quit scenarios, allow unhook with luck associated perks, offerings… and add a self kill prompt on hook when there are 2 survivors left (for the hatch game).
That's the most important part I can think about for now.
I think these are all great suggestions and don’t think it would cause any problems at any level of play
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@doobiedo said:
The thing is keeping the self- unhook allows Bhvr to not have to worry as much about making sure survivor players are happy with the balance of the game. If survivors feel trapped in games they feel they have no way to win then some might stop playing or disrupt the game in other ways. I can't see them "cracking down" on this like so many want. Instead Bhvr. should work on balancing the game better so survivor players don't feel they have no chance to win as often. (Or honestly they should have just kept the de-pip mechanic. The removal of that definitely increased the amount of players letting go on first hook.)
Doesn’t letting go on hook guarantee they depip if that’s the issue? Where as staying in game you can pip even if you don’t escape?
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Surprised to have not seen Object of Obsession mentioned as that was ridiculous in its original state.
Boil Over for me as playing on console it’s impossible to counter the effect where PC players it barely affects them unless heights aren’t involved.
Circle of Healing was also a nightmare completely negating all the pressure you gained through injures.
On killer side it’s probably original Ruin for me, it made the game such a slog in solo queue if you had someone who couldn’t hit the skill checks or everyone was looking for the totem etc.
Also don’t think anyone likes seeing NoeD pop at the end.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
3k is alredy a win in itself, the survivors dont have to get all 4 people out only themselves so its not exactly fair
Escaping via hatch unlocks survivor adepts as well so they’re much easier; the only one I’m missing is David’s.
A few of the killers are a nightmare to even get to that point, especially on console; and it’s honestly been soul destroying to lose the achievement to hatch or a bleed out.
I just don’t think it’s fun for either killers or survivors at that point in the game.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800951#Comment_3800951
I don't have an issue with the 15 seconds. - Like I said: I can see it taking up to that long and still being within the norm - but we're also looking at the average. If a killer just downs a surv and can insta pick that's three seconds, five tops. Killers can insta pick a lot. What does that mean for the pick ups that take longer than five seconds? That's what I mean with the average distorts the image and why the number seems a bit high for claiming a non-issue; I'd expect that the times where a killer can and does insta pick drastically lowers the number.
And as I say: It's more the 35secs I really take an issue with. I mean - if it actually takes killers that long to pick…. I can see how they're struggling even with a ton of slowdown. If you occasionally take that long; sure. But consistently? If you need so long that you usually (that's median not averge though) need 15+ seconds to pick a surv up every time one is downed…that's something the killer player should be looking at.
But let me repeat: The more I think about it the more I think that statistic is essentially meaningless without proper context/being able to check the data yourself.Exactly like the kill rate statistics are meaningless without being able to see what happened during the match.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800263#Comment_3800263
He replaced artist as the two hit ranged killer, where she has hard restrictions for sending 1 crow or 2 and actual skill/timing on the next hit, which removes crows to do it again;
Unknown you dont have to aim and you keep your effect after a hit with ranged, and you get map traversal… because that just had to happen for some reason.
Yes its broken.If you miss the shot after hitting them the first time to put the status on them they can break out by looking at you before you can fire another shot and have to put the status on again. It also has way more travel time on the projectile than Artist or Huntress so is harder to hit and easier to dodge.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797490#Comment_3797490
Kill rates are massively inflated due to survivors giving up so quickly.
Kill rates in high MMR are higher than kill rates in overall MMR, and I would assume that high MMR has more dedicated players that won't suicide that much, therefor it would stand to reason that this kill rate inflation is not that impactful.
and it is massively inflating kill rates
That is an assumption on your part and one you don't have any data for. Keep in mind as well, and I feel like this is something a lot of people overlook with regards to this subject: Not every match with a survivor that gives up would've been a survivor win if that survivor hadn't quit on hook. I wager that, in most cases, if they give up on hook, there's a good chance that if they hadn't, it still would've been a 3K+ anyway, meaning it didn't affect the kill rates at all.
You also have to remember that this is a two-way street, and there's killers that throw matches too, deflating the kill rate.
Killer can’t force survivors to leave and EGC kills aren’t counted towards kill rate. Survivors can literally bang all gens out in 6 minutes and refuse to leave even though they won just to not increase their MMR
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How about removing pre game lobbies and also self unhooking to ‘go next’ at the same time?
No one gets to pick and choose what they play with/against, and no one gets a way to dodge something they don’t like by bypassing the DC penalty.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Have you considered that the game overall is balanced in such a way that dredge, Myers, and pig are over performing the stated goal of 60%?
That maybe, just maybe, the game is an unfun slog for a lot of players and over tuning the entire game is causing these problems?
I highly doubt that people are, en masse, giving up to skew numbers. What you're seeing is that the game is over in the first couple minutes for the first survivor hooked, and the only real reaction to the current game state is to admit their game is over and go next.
I know from my experience on both sides that people give up for all sorts of reasons before the killer has had chance to do anything to be the reason they do.
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It’s sad that the awesome Mori animations will basically be very rarely seen now.
I am a little worried about Leverage as won’t it just encourage tunnelling knowing if you return to the hook your more likely to find an injured survivor, and let’s face it people are still going to insist on trying to heal under the hook. I wish solos would go somewhere safe to heal but don’t seem to even with basekit haste after unhook.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796528#Comment_3796528
With the pool analogy, what I'm saying is it is like a 'pool party' where everyone is actually just drinking alcohol/socializing not swimming at all, and someone not wearing a bathing suit is shoved in with their phone in their pocket. Can you end up in the water? Yes. But people aren't actually signing up for a 'pool party' expecting to enter the water, since it isn't a pool party.
Its the grown up thing to let bad actors get away unpunished? DCs are already punished, so this is only encouraging time hostage taking.
If someone doesn't like how people are destroying their game, they should let them destroy their game? That's what this sounds like. Gatekeeping is important to keep bad actors out, and in general this is a method of gatekeeping. It isn't a rules legal form, but it is a moral form. I can't (legally) advocate it, but I also can't (morally) condemn it.
If someone ragequits and DCs, it is a better outcome for everyone than ragequit and fails skillchecks/doesn't run away to give chase/any other form of legal gamethrowing that are means of losing. I would rather get a bot that will give me 30% gen progress, than a person not even trying giving 10% gen progress.
I've seen the game with no DCs and it was perfectly fine IME as both Killer and Survivor. If a Survivor quit too early as Surv, I could quit alongside them and get to actually play a match, rather than be held hostage for another 15-30m because the Killer started acting petty and both refused to kill us and refused to let us escape. As Killer, my games were never ruined by free DCs because they only quit once my victory was guaranteed (and even then they would typically stay in for their 20k+ BP). My time wasn't wasted at all, and the Survivors still enjoyed their match.
Killers 100% can just go next? What do you mean? If you quit as Killer, the match ends, and you can play the next match as soon as the penalty ends, which is always going to be faster than waiting for Survivors to finish the remaining gens and leave through the gates. Anyone on either side reaching a high enough DC penalty isn't playing anymore for that day regardless. You might wait through the 2nd DC (5m?), but no one is waiting through 15m+ (3rd DC?).
I can’t with these analogies anymore lol.
People know what they’re queueing up for, if not because they’re new then they do eventually and so can’t use ignorance as as excuse for ragequitting.
It doesn’t matter if you in particular don’t like Legion or Skull Merchant, they’re in the game and when you queue up you may have to play against them, and if that’s really a deal breaker for you then you shouldn’t be queuing to play and expecting to sabotage others who do want to play.I disagree that having people ragequit, DC or otherwise sabotage the game is good in any way. No one will ever get a normal match that way and all these statistics are meaningless when player behaviour can skew it so much.
I don’t know how you can say things were better before DC penalty as people being able to quit on a whim meant no one ever got a normal game and quit for the slightest reason.
I think the best solution is to put players like this into their own queue and they can continue to ruin each other’s game while the rest of us just play the game we enjoy. Maybe they will see the frustration of their behaviour if they are on the receiving end of it themselves.
There is no use pandering to these types of players as there will always be something else they will quit over and there’s no pleasing everyone all the time. -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796793#Comment_3796793
Tunnelling, Camping and Slugging have been the number one complaint from survivors for years and none of them have been properly addressed yet, in -years-.
Do tell me how survivors get everything they want, because the patch history aint showin' that.
Borrowed Time and haste from unhook basekit, anti camp guarenteed self unhook, PTB basekit Unbreakable test.
You can argue that these haven’t solved the problem for you but you can’t say they don’t jump to try and deal with these things that have been complained about.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796503#Comment_3796503
So in an online pvp game, only one side should care about wins and the other side should just be okay with losing in the name of "Horror"? Hate to break it you but dbd hasn't been a horror game in a long time. Sometimes I feel like a lot Killer mains want the challenge of a pve game, but the ego gratification of knowing they beat a real person at the same time. This is probably the most hilarious permutation of this sentiment I have seen though. "All the survivors should stop playing unless they don't care about winning in an online pvp game."
I don’t know why you say killer mains, most players play both sides and many of us like the game because it’s horror themed and supposed to feel tense when playing survivor.
I just enjoy playing the game and don’t need to escape to have fun. Some of my favourite matches are against jumpscare builds as it truly feels like a horror game again.