ClarityOfWill
ClarityOfWill
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432993/lets-talk-about-nurse
I think a problem for Nurse is that she fundamentally breaks the rules of the game. Every killer has varying pros and cons to playing around loops and pallets, Nurse just jumps past those. It's why so many perks fall into the category of 'we can't have that because it would be too strong on Nurse'.
Her biggest weakness is her ability to get across the map, but as maps shrink to bolster M1 killers, she gets stronger as well. This is kind of why Nurse is not the dominant menace in 2v8 as she is in 1v4.
This is compounded by that until a player gets an idea of her teleports, she absolutely is garbage. So if you nerfed her power (say slowing down the speed it regens) this would become even more of a massive gulf.
The two best ideas I've heard for Nurse nerfs:
1: Blindness around her blinks to prevent the use of aura reading.
2: Spasmodic addon as a basekit requirement preventing the two tap she can do so easily and making her an M1 killer at point (this would require lots of additional changes though).
This is fundamentally the problem with nurse and one of the reason I've personally given up her as a "second" main. The games are unbearably easy minus the one in the blue moon game and as a result it's sapped any sense of challenge or enjoyment. The other issue which a lot of nurse mains here love to conveniently gloss over or downplay is the absolute stranglehold she has on game design (which BHVR have already confirmed) and we've seen from patchnotes where perks had to be changed. Doesn't matter whether you balance for high, mid or even low mmr when you have a killer who's issues transcend the game itself.
It's also one of the reasons that I don't think nerfing aura reading will do anything. Those of us who've played her for a long time could already function well without aura reading; sure the additional perks now make it way easier but you learn through good positioning where the survivor is being funnelled to or at least "likely" to be. The real answer, should have happened years ago, which is a complete redesign of her power and accepting that on demand teleportation (not conditional like Hag's or Dredge's) was a mistake. The counterpoint which I'm sympathetic to is that a ton of us bought skins for her and she's probably the only barrier (minus blight) to the argument that the game isn't pay to win.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787928#Comment_3787928
How about supporting those with visibility issues on all platforms by advocating for in game solutions and better accessibility options for everyone, not just those on selected platforms.
Already have done, I've provided feedback via some streamers that advocate for raising awareness around colour coordination related issues and provided input into videos that were released to highlight specific issues around colour-blindness. Unfortunately BHVR does not have a good track record and we're only a small number of voices. But hey, if you want to lend a hand as well then I'm sure there shouldn't be an issue with that, right?
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I'd very interested to hear what BHVR would like for us suffering colour-blindness to do. The in game accessibility options are below average and NVIDIA filters at least allowed us to make up the difference.
I suppose given it took us roughly 7 years to get an FOV slider and the bare minimum (off the back of a certain someone's comments) not exactly holding out much hope.
However, some people here are clearly more interested in gloating over their "win" rather than actually supporting those of us with visibility issues. A shame considering that whatever advantage people may think we get, I promise you we'd get a far bigger one if our eyes worked properly in the first place.
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I will be astounded if it isn’t a nerf, but since it most likely is and as a Billy main I’d like to get a few points of feedback in early.
The overdrive system was a mistake. I said this during a podcast that occurred between several prominent billy players at the time it would potentially cause a lot of issues and stand by that statement. Conceptually it’s cool as hell, but from a gameplay balance perspective it just causes unneeded complexity. Personally, I’d remove OverDrive entirely, but that probably isn’t going to happen sadly.
- We have a subcomponent of Billy’s power that automatically builds based on usage rather than as a reward. The result is that spamming your power is the optimally way to get the OD to trigger. Changing this to be on successful downs or something else doesn’t solve this either since now you end up creating a “win harder” scenario on an instadown power.
- No control on when it activates. Having OD kick in mid curve or even traversal and screwing up a well-intended play doesn’t feel good. It’s frustrating, especially when you’ve built up a skill set with managing Billy’s power, only to now you must try to factor in the “RNG” part of his power. Changing this to manual activation would help, but it makes it much stronger on a killer who is already in a strong spot. Again, it’s complexity that now must be balanced for.
- Gives addon strength as part of the basekit, but in a way that isn’t consistent. It’s not like the changes for Doc’s power where you can nerf the addons because the basekit has been statically changed to account for it (or insert other killers where similar principals have been applied). Because this was split over a 10% basekit change, the OD mechanic and the combining of both engravings (also a mistake imo), it becomes must harder to try and accommodate when balancing. Under “old” billy, it was straightforward, you had base speed, yellow engraving and green engraving. Now we have Base, Iri + OD activation window.
The turn rate change was also stupid (not helped by certain content creators spreading a narrative that was extremely misleading regarding curving). This should be reverted to 0.75. 1 second was extremely generous considering how drastically it lowered his skill ceiling.
Further nerf to tmix and if we’re going to keep OD then nerf the recovery in that too. On an instadown power, the recovery window is what allows the survivor to make reasonable distance and reposition away. Anything changing this severely affects the ability to punish Billy properly for screwing up. He was always strong at zoning, even during his weaker period, buffing this to the extent it has been was a mistake.
Honestly, this is probably an unpopular one, but revert the engravings change back to yellow and green. The base kit change would have allowed for a single engraving to be used with one of the other addons which is still more than strong enough. Combining both was always going to mean that billy had to sacrifice nothing to retain the strength of speed while also gaining additional functionality from another addon. We already have so many OD related addons that we could easily afford to scrap one.
If we did this, we probably wouldn’t need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to lopro since the addon was fine before the buffs.
As someone else said, buff the weaker addons.
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Long overdue change, should have happened when the gen time was increased. It's a buff for survivor, but hardly an unreasonable one and should hopefully help (albeit small) soloq.
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Pains me to say it but they're right. It's absolutely crippling my ability to play killer in either mode, this isn't good for the game.
I worry we simply do not have the playerbase to sustain this long term
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Honestly, as others have said, if you're being matched with better opponents it's somewhat unreasonable to expect to be able to win. There's no shame in that, everyone gets rolled at times by better players (might be items, the killer you're playing, map offering, sheer RNG, an off day etc). What is important is that you use the match as a way to improve things you're struggling with. For example, if you're using pyramid head, try using his power a lot more than you normally would to get better proficiency with it. Otherwise, try working on your mind games in certain tiles by seeing what works and how your opponents play. Are they using checkspots? Then try to play around this by blindsiding them or forcing them into a position where the checkspots are weaker/harder to react to.
it's a hard truth that a lot of killer players don't want to accept, but there is a time and a place for proxy camping / tunnelling. If you're having to do it straight out the gate and struggling then you need to get better at identifying when to commit, when to drop chase and generally working on developing your macro gameplay. When the anti camp system comes in, there's going to be a lot of players in for a very rude awakening because they never built up the basic skills needed to function at higher MMR. These were the same people who got hard carried by the eruption meta and now complain they can't mindlessly stack regression to brute force the game.
If you're hitting BL2 and 3 consistently that's already a significant red flag. Do you review your own gameplay to see what mistakes you made? If not, could you record some games so we can offer feedback as to what might be going wrong?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3447486#Comment_3447486
As another Billy main, it is def going to be rough, but my issues mostly deal with seeing scratchmarks on these maps, I wish we had better accessibility settings since it gets annoying having to constantly change my settings to be able to see.
Wow, 3 of us billy mains in a single thread. Someone needs to document this since it's a historical moment that won't be believed otherwise lol. But yeah, thank god for map offerings (never thought I'd be saying that unironically).
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Yup, this is a great change for billy. There are definitely some additional things that would be greatly appreciated, but respect for recognizing that the engraving nerf would have gutted him and reverting the PTB following feedback from the community.
It's important to hold the developers to account for where things go wrong, but it's also equally important to give credit where it is due. You have our thanks.
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@Katzengott said:
You're not supposed to let go from the gen like with Pain Res / DMS.
You just need to hit the skillchecks. Or what's the problem here?
The problem is that merciless storm is bugged and causing unintended regression on the skillchecks.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392726#Comment_3392726
This forum is full of insane people. I'm convinced at this point. Either that or they're just extremely dedicated trolls. Even reddit has more reasonable takes.
There is a reason why the forums are often mocked, because often those kinds of people are seen as the face of it. Most of us killer mains who've played for a long time and actually understand both the micro and macro gameplay aren't widespread complaining. We recognized that the basekit healing changes were completely unreasonable and that the gen kicking meta wasn't healthy either. That being said, you do need some form of regression at higher mmr games but those whining, crying and proclaiming the game will die aren't of that caliber. Those are the kinds of people who were bruteforcing their way to victory by mindlessly stacking slowdowns and are upset that option is no longer viable. They'll have to learn to get better at chases and decision making like the rest of us.
The changes from the PTB are good and address the main problems, namely COH, DH and self healing. Some tweaks to some of the more problematic maps, a few addon passes for some killers and the game will be in a great spot. Not all of us are as deluded as some of the most biased people that live on the forums.
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@gtVel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379489#Comment_3379489
And to be very clear, it needs to compensate fully. I cannot stress this enough, billy NEEDS the speed he already has with doubles. If it's dropped to be any less, he won't be worth playing.
I fully agree, that's the only way this change would be acceptable. In addition, I would argue that if the overheat amount is being nerfed then the charge times on the engravings need to come down as well. Otherwise we're looking at a double nerf without meaningful compensation.
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Just jumping in here to provide feedback as well. I've got roughly the same amount of hours as Vel on Billy alone (11k hours total) and we've even had lengthy discussions on discord about the state of billy and how he could be changed to address those concerns. This change is, with all due respect, idiotic at best and outright incompetent at worst. Billy already has a significant amount of counterplay and the saw is difficult (but not impossible) to land on good survivors if you're trying to curve. The engravings, whether you're running doom / lopro or death, are required because without any kind of base speed increase you're simply too slow to be a threat in loops. This doesn't even begin to cover the fact that of his addons, only 4 (punctured muffler, death, doom and lopro) are decent (i'm not including carb because it's extremely map dependent to provide consistent value).
Running both engravings provides a unique playstyle that as Vel stated allows a high expression of mechanical skill with Billy. Nerfing the engravings not only lowers that skill ceiling but also makes him worse to play for existing billy mains. Him being a hard killer to learn is fine, but at least allow there to be an incentive for players wanting to adopt the curving style of play. Each time you miss with your power it's almost the equivalent of being hit by old DS. Not to mention that with both engravings you're already looking at roughly a 3.2 sec charge time, something that is already punishing enough without further nerfs to the speed.
It is absurd that in the same patch you're also buffing nurse, allowing multiple problematic addons from far stronger killers to continue reigning supreme (pick a blight one, tombstone piece etc.) yet somehow deciding to nerf the few viable options billy has with only a 54% kill rate. Please strongly reconsider reverting this change or at least buffing the base kit speed similar to what was done with Demo to offset the addon changes.
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I P100'd Billy, just working towards getting Meg P100 now.
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Honestly, the overheat mechanic as a concept is fine. Being able to 99% indefinitely a hooked survivor was unhealthy and that's a legitimate reason to keep it. However, I would like them to make some small adjustments to it:
- Remove heat gain during rev, only during the dash
- Slight increase to the base rate (nothing massive)
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161658#Comment_3161658
Except that's exactly how survivor perks need to be balanced(what's the worst case scenario in a swf). Using that logic some of the most broken and busted perk nerds need to be reverted, did you think old object of obsession was fair?
Not saying it shouldn't be taken into consideration. However, that wasn't the point I was making, it was more that there were better ways of addressing the PTB issues and still keeping it balanced. Anyway, old object wasn't a problem because 4 people could bring it, it was a problem because only 1 needed to and then relayed that information to the other 3. On maps like Midwich it reduced killers such as Trapper into a pointless exercise. Likewise, old DS wasn't nerfed because 3 other people could bring it, but because of it's strength relative to the wider game.
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@WorthlessBeing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161422#Comment_3161422
So 50 seconds, cumulable up to three times, 150 seconds, basically more than two minutes.
Sounds fair alright. /s
Because the perk shouldn't be balanced around the possibility of 3 other people all having it. If only there was some limit they could put in place and adjust the numbers, truly a mystery we will never solve /s
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@Sumnox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161381#Comment_3161381
Well but that's the thing. If you want people to bring something to help camping, it needs to be good. Anything other than it being good, is just trash. "it's not completely useless" is no good. It equals people not bringing it.
At least make it 60 seconds per hook stage.
I'd rather they put something basekit so that people aren't obligated to take specific perks or worse, have a bandaid solution gated behind a paywall (no shrine does not count simply due to the likelihood of it appearing). However, I agree with you the timer needs to be higher, something around 45-50 seconds. Kinship is only 34 seconds but has a significantly more generous activation window (even though it's second stage only)
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It's not useless, but it's not great either. Once you factor in the range and the time lost from travelling to the survivor / generator it's pretty underwhelming. However, you cannot allow people to force someone to stay hooked perpetually either so it did need some kind of a change. Where it's strength lies (aside from swf) is endgame where people need time to heal up and try for a rescue.
It's likely going to need some kind of buff though if no base changes for face camping are coming.
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@OniWantsUrLocation said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161141#Comment_3161141
It's nice that you like him. Currently, he fits perfectly in the line of underwhelming killers. Of course, you can make it easy for yourself and talk about skill issues. "Git gud" has always been a valid argument to drop in the past few years. Strictly speaking, a certain killer is not too strong, but instead most survivors are just not skilled enough to beat her.
I've never been a fan of high effort, low reward killers. Plenty of weaknesses, few strengths. Sounds like fun. Pretty much just what Wesker is at the moment.
Clearly we aren't going to agree on much if you think Wesker is underwhelming. He is a high risk, high reward character assuming you don't just play him as M1 only. Git gud as an argument is simply based on some of the ludicrous takes in this thread about his strength and with all due respect, people calling him bad reek of it. As for trying to bring up nurse as some sort of logistical gotcha really ain't it, her problems extend far beyond the scope of in game gameplay, we've just had proof of that. Wesker unironically is what nurse should have been on day 1 of her release, but here we are.
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Wesker is fine for the most part. He does need some fixes in regards to hits not registering and not taking a heath state on collision, but otherwise he's pretty decent. People advocating for a return to the PTB level hitboxes are laughable and hopefully the devs take no notice. There is no way 40cm was balanced there, it gave me hits I clearly did not deserve. However, 25cm might be more reasonable in the long term. By the sounds of it, with the exception of a few very clear examples, most of it boils down to skill issue and knowing when vs when not to use his power.
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Billy doesn't really need his hitbox or turning rate adjusted. Most of his issues come from poor map design in terms of collisions or general layout. Some minor tweaks to the overheat mechanic would be welcome too (since we know overheat ain't getting removed).
- Change overheat to no longer gain during the dash, only during the rev
- Slight increase in base cooling (nothing crazy, just a couple of points)
- Improve object hitboxes on terrain to be more reasonable
- Change the roar to be when he downs a survivor instead of at the start (since they probably won't remove it)
- Make the post animation swing less jarring (some is fine, but it's a bit off putting for new players)
Addon rework (i'll edit as I think of more)
- Pighouse Gloves changed to yellow rarity
- Off-Brand Motor Oil changed to Purple and has a new effect. When Billy downs a survivor all current heat in the saw is dissipated (similar to blight's alchemist ring, but more balanced).
- Big buckle - No longer effects terror radius, instead survivors hit by the chainsaw suffer from the mangled effect until fully healed
- Leafy Mash - Survivors hit by the chainsaw suffer from the oblivious status effect for 30 seconds after being unhooked (rename the addon to be more appropriate, number may need changing to be less oppressive in soloq)
- Mother helpers - Buffed to 20% and occurs for any kind of pallet destruction (kicking, chainsaw, spirit fury). However, no longer stackable with Carb
- Black Grease - Removed old effect. New effect, increases movement speed while charging the chainsaw to 4 (or 4.4)
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It's a pain on Eyrie and to an extent Badham, but Garden of Joy is something else.
Tinfoil hat theory - these changes are related to Blight and their attempts to stop hug tech / fix him sliding off objects.
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lmao classic Mcote moment
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@BreadSilence said:
This might be a dumb question but is there actually some way to know what your exact MMR even is? Cus I always see people on these forums say stuff like "I'm high mmr" or " My mmr is at 1800" and so I'm genuinely curious if there's a way to actually find out or if people just like to pull random numbers out of their booty hole.
There is but not via legitimate methods. Can't say how on here, but there are guides if you look hard enough...and willing enough to risk your account for it. Not my cup of tea personally, but it can be done.
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Seen a legit P100 Dwight who streams. Been swfing with him and a few mutual friends.
For anyone interested, he was also playing in a swf with Otz, Lunne and Crunch a few streams ago. Name is UnlikeableAB, nice guy and worth checking out.
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@Hes1hp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3143163#Comment_3143163
The guy who thinks unhooking should have no counterplay? What are you referring to, I don't get it
He doesn't think that, just the person you're quoting is being disingenuous. His argument is that the "unhooking game", which essentially devolves into "who has the shittier internet connection/reaction speed" most of the time, is inherently stupid. It's a position I personally agree with, sitting there baiting back and forth is kind of ridiculous. It would make trading more viable (especially in solo) against people camping, but at the cost of making end game camping a bit weaker. Prior to the DS / OTR changes I wouldn't have been in favour of changing how unhooking worked, but with certain perks no longer working in endgame I'm less opposed to the idea now.
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The fact that Off the record and DS (yeah I know it's bad currently, but still) are behind paywalls is pretty disgusting. I've always believed that locking perks behind DLC for offsetting some of the more unfun strategies is poor show. This will no doubt get worse the longer the game goes on.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125789#Comment_3125789
I dont feel she needs them. I would honestly take off the perks as well but aura reading is way too fun on nurse.
Same, I'm running her with just BBQ and shadowborn at the moment for the challenge. Running nurses and agitation is quite underrated if you're looking for some fun combo's
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125738#Comment_3125738
I'm not a content creator nor am i going through all that trouble just for you. Here, this one was in mothers dwelling as far as i remember. Did that change anything for you?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D9DAA15RCXEM/XAICJ9XKX24H.png
Just going to weigh in on this and say congrats. Regardless of whether other nurse players here want to accept it those kinds of matches are difficult due to the pressure the items allow a team to put out. Had a similar game on Eyries not too long ago and no addons either. Keep up the good work. Out of interest, do you play addonless for the challenge or just because of muscle memory?
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@BadZilla said:
I always had instant survivor queue matches but killer took too long before the update 3-5 mins but now it takes 10-15 min to even play killer..
Same boat, I'm in the UK region and my queue times are between 5-10 mins. Tried VPN'ing over to EU for a test and it was still 5 mins. Seriously killing my desire to keep playing DBD. At least survivor is nearly instant even as a 4 stack so it's not completely terrible.
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@GannTM said:
Literally you people complain about everything. It’s a whole different game and it doesn’t affect you.
Heh, that's why I don't hang around here too often, far too much complaining. It's a harmless, fun little game and the self aware humor is actually pretty on point. The fact we didn't get nurse straight off the bat is criminal though lol.
Speaking of which. GG's btw, was a fun warmup game on nurse.
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@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104508#Comment_3104508
Haha yea I saw that. Lost a little respect for that guy there.
I visibly cringed when I saw that video and the tweet it was referencing. It's genuinely embarrassing some of the crackpot theories certain streamers are entertaining as if there's some collective shadow council of survivors / killers who's sole purpose is to manipulate the kill / escape rates. Jesus wept, talk about lazy, clickbait content.
It really isn't hard, too many changes were made at once and the "unfun" aspects of the gameplay (camping / tunnelling) were not sufficiently offset by changes to the survivor basekit, combined with further nerfs such as the DS stun reduction. Doesn't make the DC's / suicides the right thing to do or justified in any shape, but if they have instant queues and stand to gain nothing from the current match...why wouldn't someone go next?
This is what a culmination of "I don't have to care about your fun" combined with fundamental problems in the core gameplay being ignored has led to. However, that certainly isn't being helped by certain streamers giving credence to some of the stupidest takes I've seen.
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I get the argument he's making, but it isn't being conveyed very well. You can't "disprove" the argument about her strength coming from ignoring certain mechanics by trying to use Dull Bracelet and Nit Comb since those addons severely impact her basekit. However, he is correct in that while she ignores pallets and windows, there are certain challenges other killers are less impacted by such as deadzones (I won't include edge mapping because that can cost non mobility killers key gens). Ultimately he's making the point that nurses power doesn't have sufficient downsides for it's strength and that's something I'd agree with. The "downtime" on Nurse isn't really that big downside because even from a purely traversal standpoint you can make consistent, significant distances compared to other killers. Unlike Freddy or Demo who have good traversal, they are locked behind sizeable cooldowns or require a portal/gen to facilitate. Plague and Oni are both examples of killers with very strong snowball powers, but require set up time to achieve and have pretty obvious counterbalances. That being said, the format doesn't always work well (see Myers outside of TP).
Agree with the point, but creating "teleporting Oni 2.0" really ain't the way to fix nurse. It'll just make playing her feel janky and still would be a problem for players to try and learn. They'd have to manage the teleportation aspect (including muscle memory, verticality, blink placement, zoning) as well as resource management (no details on how such a format would even work) and standard 115% gameplay. Yeah, can't say I'm onboard with this particular idea.
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Ehh I'm really not a fan of this. Billy doesn't really need anything that drastic, most of the changes he needs are either aesthetic, addon related or the adjustments to the overheat mechanic. What I'd personally like to see:
- Heat no longer gained during the dash, only during the revving
- Increased base heat cooling
- Reduction in the post animation swing so it's not quite so jarring for new players
- If the roar is to stay then shift it to when downing someone, not at the start
- (maybe) only keep the charge time increase on doom engravings, remove them from death
- Rework of the pig gloves addon, something purple tier should not require the killer to actively disarm their power to get value (I'm aware Hag has something similar)
- Re-design of Black Grease, Big Buckle, Off Brand Motor Oil and Leafy Mash addons. Sorry, but the changes to these in the recent "rework" were awful.
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Honestly? Bored (never thought I'd say that about killer but here we are).
Queues are averaging around 10-15 mins for me depending on the time (worse during the day, more so than usual and only slightly better in the evening / late night). I was already winning the vast majority of my games pre-patch and now it rarely feels like there's games which challenge me (outside a full stack). Most of the time it's just crushing soloq / duoq players who didn't need to be in a worse situation than they were were prior. Played 15 games of nurse over the last 2 days and it's now got to the point where I'm having to run 2 perks (BBQ / Shadowborn) with no addons just so that the game isn't over at 3/4 gens.
That being said, it's not all bad news. Since the bloodweb changes, doom engravings have been consistently appearing so my billy isn't anywhere at risk of running out anytime soon. Many survivors like seeing a good curvebilly so those games are still enjoyable (had a Cheryl bless her who wanted to 1 v 1 at shack for a good 10 mins after her team died). Some of the weaker killers are a bit nicer to play as well due to STBFL + basekit changes, particularly on doctor, trapper, pig.
Survivor though....wow. I had to stop playing outside of a 3/4 man stack, unless playing for Archives / Daily rituals as lot of the fun has been sucked out of it. Camping to second stage and/or tunnelling off hook is still rampant and the basekit changes have done very little to combat how effective it is (let's be real, what killer can't count to 6...). DS stun timer needs reverting ASAP since it doesn't even give 2 seconds of clearance (it's about 1.3 seconds for the survivor to start moving at full speed from the beginning of the drop animation). In terms of the meta, not much really has changed, killers are stacking slowdowns (just different perk names, same outcome) and survivor is OTR, Prove, Exhaustion + Adrenaline (2016 anyone?). Running a killer to bloodlust 2 isn't as punishing as it was before since people either refuse to hammer out gens. Had only 2 killers recently that I saw even attempt to moonwalk tiles or mind game around L + T's. Don't get me wrong, it feels awesome to have a long chase, but there are now more times where I'm left wondering "did you outplay me or did the game do it for you?".
Hopefully they'll walk back a couple of the changes, too much was done at once. Focus now needs to be on information for soloq, slowdown stacking and map balance.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091294#Comment_3091294
If you say so. She's underwhelming on huge maps. Sure I can force a 3 gen, but guess what ? That involves camping and area and playing territorial. The last time I checked. Survivors hate that, and I refuse to do 3 gen strat. It's ######### boring for everyone involved. If you play for as many chases as possible like I do. All of the sudden. Map traversal is an issue.
Again, I don't particularly agree with that based on my own experiences. Nether do I camp or tunnel (unless I'm against a very strong team / 4 toolbox type lobbies) even when playing "territorial". However, like many other nurse players, I'm fortunate enough to have more hours in her alone than a large number of people have in the game itself. While larger maps are more "difficult to deal with", most of that can be worked around with knowing how to zone properly and a solid grasp on macro gameplay. Calling her underwhelming is selling it a bit short.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090816#Comment_3090816
I dont use any addons, i dont tunnel, i dont bring a single slow down perk. I also dont have any trouble in red forrest or any of the bigger maps. Well, i get trouble in her own map, its extremely annoying there but its probably a skill issue. Granted im not the best nurse player and its unlikely that im going against best survivors.
Could have to do with builds, im running a mostly info based build thats probably working in my favor in a big map? Try giving Lethal, Floods, BBQ, Starstruck a go.
Fully agree. It's comical just hearing the idea you need range addons for her to be S tier or that you can't play large maps addonless. Worst case scenario is you may have to sacrifice an outlier gen which is more than made up for by having the ability to force 3 gens where they wouldn't otherwise exist. Addons have never been what made her S tier, it's having an incredible chase power that ignores (or mitigates) most survivor defenses as well as map traversal that ignores terrain (for the most part).
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Personally I won't be playing soloq anymore, only survivor as part of a 4 stack. Games recently have been pretty miserable and soloq just does not have the coordination to consistently make the plays needed to offset the changes. Within my gaming circles people seem to be echoing the same sentiment, but very few will actually drop the game permanently.
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@DEMONANCE said:
it's amazing how forum users are so triggered when someone suggests a streamer's opinion to them. you see a completely different reaction than reddit for example.
on reddit people usually respect the opinions of the well known streamers as they have a lot of experience and game knowledge to back it up, but on the forums??
a lot of disrespect to these streamers saying their opinions are not the only valid ones when the one suggesting it never even claimed it to be, or "you should form your own opinion" as if sharing an opinion with someone else is a crime.
it's very obvious people here have a hate boner for streamers and may i say it's because they never could get the same recognition streamers do even tho they're also experienced players?
A lot of it depends how it's phrased and whether it aligns with people's views on here about certain things. Dead hard was a great example, people would often link Otz's videos showing "this is a problem, even Otz struggles". However, the moment he released a video challenging the narrative the game is survivor sided (or least nowhere near the level the forums claim), boy did people here not take it well. Usual suspects complaining how Otz's skill level was not representative and didn't matter while comically pretending every team was seal team swf and their loses were not down to a lack of innate skill. That being said, mindlessly parroting a streamers opinion without any input or discussion around the topic get's a bit nauseating because at the end of the day, their opinion isn't infallible, sometimes comes from very questionable data and doesn't provide any additional insight or discussion point.
The other component is that this place has been openly mocked by multiple streamers (rightly so) for some of the scorching hot takes people have on game balance. It happened last night in Otz's stream, he and Dowsey were getting rolled by a double range nurse (one of many) and someone in his chat said something along the lines of "Oh no, a killer survivors can't bully" (a sentiment you see on here a lot) and they got rightly crucified by him and chat. The harsh truth is that a lot of people here aren't quite as good as they think, rely on heavy slowdown builds on strong killers and when a streamer challenges that narrative or points out a problem they see it as a personal attack. I get rolled from time to time so don't get me wrong, but it's about how you approach the loss. Too many would rather blame everything else rather than look at what they could have done differently.
However, some streamers have also had some seriously bad takes on the game as well so or brought things to light which would have been better documenting and sending to the developers directly. It also doesn't help that some of their communities are so utterly hellbent on defending said streamer (even if they're wrong) that it can be jarring to other people.
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Overheat isn't as big of a deal as people make out but there are a few tweaks that would be useful.
- Remove the heat gain during the dash but keep it for the revving.
- Increase the base cooling rate slightly
- Rework pig gloves into an addon that dumps all heat on a successful down. Similar to ring but it's a bit more balanced on billy since there's stronger counterplay to him than bump logic.
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Long story short OP, you can't, her basekit is one of those powers which is extremely binary. Nerfs could very easily destroy her and any kind of buff would make her too oppressive. There are a few changes which would help remove some of the more obnoxious scenarios on her:
- Classifying the second blink as a special attack. It wouldn't completely gut the starstruck / agi build, but it would make it a lot harder to use effectively.
- Make DS remove all charges (I like this idea, it makes DS more effective against her since otherwise you can immediately make the distance up in a single blink). With the upcoming nerf to DS on the PTB I'd argue this is almost a necessity since 3 seconds (minus drop animation) does nothing to discourage me tunnelling.
- Pallet stuns should produce the same effect as DS, removing any charges since nurse no longer has the stun + fatigue combo anymore. It would at least reward good play from the survivor if they manage to land it.
- Range addons - They should not have any impact on blink time at bare miniumum. Intentional or not, this is utterly stupid and I have no idea why anyone thought it was a good idea.
- Recharge addons - need flat number reduction
- Bookmark - Rework this entirely, even with the increased recharge time it's way too overtuned. With a good first blink you shouldn't be missing the second very often, 3 just removes what little counterplay there is from the survivor side.
People asking for 110% with one blink have no idea how strong this would make her. Knowing how to zone properly is what makes the difference between a good and an excellent nurse. Even with the loss of a second blink, being able to chase down survivors with 110% would be a massive buff. You do not want to do that trust me lol. The correct solution would have been never to release her in the first place, but since we're here now a complete redesign won't happen. However, if they ever release a second follow up to this game, I wouldn't be shocked if Nurse didn't make the cut.
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I've noticed the same thing, queue times in the UK were near instant but now they're around 2-5 mins in the evening. During the day they've always been garbage which hasn't changed that much.
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@Ayamir said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023675#Comment_3023675
Dude stop arguing with him there's no point just let this thread die.
I'm not planning on it, that would require them to have something of value to say. They play at a lower level and that's fine, no shame in it. Anyway, I'll leave this thread to it's overdue death and if they're desperate for last word then fair enough.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023436#Comment_3023436
You basically said i was lying that i did a whole map chase. You’re wrong and won’t accept it lol.
I said against a "god" nurse. Are you genuinely this stupid or did you have to work for it? Honestly I'm impressed at this point.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3022467#Comment_3022467
I’m a Nurse main. I have no way of telling who is a “comp” player or not. My experience is my experience. It’s pretty funny that you’re mad about me talking about my experience.
No one is mad, I simply met your post with the same energy you brought. But if you could stop projecting that would be appreciated. Thanks.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3022467#Comment_3022467
There is no such things as "god" tier nurse tho, it just doesn't exist.
Hence why it's in quotes, it's just a term a lot of the community uses and keeps things a bit simpler. Makes no difference to me personally.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3012520#Comment_3012520
A lot of words that don’t say much, and you’re completely off base on there being no counterplay. Nurse has to guess against good survivors. As an example I have had many games in which I have circled the map in a chase against Nurse. This same Nurse downs my solo teammates in 10-15 seconds. So is this Nurse a god for downing them? Or are my teammates just not good against Nurse? You can’t nerf a killer because people refuse to try/learn.
If you're incapable of understanding high level nurse play or the wider impact her presence has on the game that's your problem. You do not run nurses of that level the entire circle of the map unless it's something like Lery's. Never said there was no counterplay either so don't put words in my mouth or twist things. I said the counterplay falls off very quickly against "god" tier nurses and becomes more about generator efficiency than "running". However, If you have footage of you running these types of nurses (established competitive ones would be even better) we'll soon be able to tell.
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Didn't the devs say there was a 15% difference in escape rates between soloq and swf? How are many of these changes meant to address that imbalance if the emphasis is now being put on people taking hits for each other. That level of coordination doesn't happen consistently even against swf's, let alone soloq where people get frightened because they heard the terror radius for 5 seconds.
Have I missed something?
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I really don't understand the change to iron will. If they want to reduce it's synergy with exhaustion perks then why not make it so that (as an example) it add's a multiplicative modifier to any exhaustion timers. That way it would also buff fearmonger as well rather than just gutting the perk. There's almost no reason for a survivor to take it anymore.