CoalTower
CoalTower
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@TheClownIsKing said:
If you don’t like grinding, that’s perfectly fine and valid.
If you think it takes a long time to achieve these lofty goals you have set yourself, yes. Yes it does take a long time.
Stop pretending it’s mandatory though. Stop complaining like you’re forced to do it.
No one perk, or any add on, or item is essential to either winning or increasing your skill in this game.
You could keep a Survivor or Killer at level 1 if you wanted to and STILL learn to play well with them.
Don’t like grinding, fine. Stop behaving like you’re forced to do so in this game.
What does Pernida Parkgnjas have to do with the grind? 😂
@bowo said:
this is ridiculous. some people might want to play with x perk on y killer/survivor. you'll have to grind for that. in a game you paid for. judging by this post, it seems your only goal is winning games. i enjoy trying wacky builds. obviously you aren't forced to grind to play the game, but that's not what people are complaining about
It's not ridiculous at all. They're right. The grind is not necessary. Also, this person is known for doing unorthodox builds, usually involving No Mither.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Nemesis is great.
Ranged ability.
Easy tracking (contamination)
Moving hazards that can catch survivors in compromising positions (Zombies).
What’s missing here?!
I personally don't think he's strong. C tier imo. But he's also nowhere near the worst killer
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You have to time it, but yes
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2274275#Comment_2274275
"Ruining the other person's fun?" I'm sorry but since when are the roles responsible of the other roles fun when they don't even care about each others fun?
There's a difference between not being responsible for the other sides fun, and purposely ruining it. For example, there's a difference between looping to killer and going out of your way to bully them.
@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2274328#Comment_2274328
Yeah sorry but I have to disagree with you on that.
Toolboxes are still strong if you know how to use them especially in combi with some perks.
You know what I mean by insta heals, they are still basically the same as the were.
You use it and any hit you take during that time will apply deap wound, so basically you have still a extra health state.
Before it fully health you, now it's heals you over time and during that time a hit will be converted to deep wound.
So yeah you can ignore all you want but insta heals still remain, whether you believe it or not.
Yeah looking at a wall or tree can counter flashlights, but how many times do you actually down them next to a wall or something to counter that?
Yeah exactly not that often.
The keys, yeah sure if a survivor is smart which a lot are not.
They hold the key in their hands the entire game.
So yeah it was a good counter to keys.
That reminds me, I wonder why it takes ages to come up with a key rework? 🤔
Yeah yeah yeah don't come with that bs about it's more than simply changing some numbers.
We all know that is a load of crap, if they really wanted a rework that it would already be in the game by now.
It is only an excuse to try and keep the people quiet, nothing more nothing less.
They are, but Franklin's will not give a win against that. Those teams are always SWF, and they'll genrush regardless of Franklin's. That's a separate issue that needs to be fixed.
That's one hit though. Old insta heals were much more BS, because you could heal two hits instead of just one. Also, you don't know whether they're running a Styptic or not. For me, those are very rare.
I down next to walls a lot, considering how looping works. Even playing Nurse I down people next to walls. It's quite common. Also, you can wait to pick up to bait out a save on the rare occasion you can't face a wall. You can quickly turn around and pick up to screw with people who were positioning for the save during your chase. There are too many counters for flashlights for them to be good. Although they're my favorite item to use, they're also a noob stomper.
About the key rework I'm actually glad that they're taking their time. Hopefully that means they'll come up with a better fix than they did with moris. I also disagree with how badly they nerfed moris. A number change is not the way to go on either rework. Although I do feel the same way about how long it's taking. It seems like they're trying to allow all the survivor's to use their keys on every character, which is working, as I see one in most games now. That is the BS part. They should've reworked them at the same time and not given any warnings.
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@Artemis5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2274256#Comment_2274256
I understand that, and as previously stated, I am still relatively new to the game myself with 500 hours, so I know I'm still just average at playing the game. I spawned in within viewing range of the killer and they immediately started chasing me (and I looped them for the duration of 2 gens), which I feel isn't that terrible - it's not the best, but it's certainly not the worst either.
And I understand that you're relatively new. I don't expect you to get a 5 gen run. However, you must do the same for that killer. You most likely have 100x more hours than him. They don't know any better than to facecamp. So please, next time make exceptions for new killers just like I'm making for you, ok? They're also new.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2274275#Comment_2274275
A toxic perk to ruin other people's fun?
Are you joking right now?
Than what are 4 toolboxes, or medkits with those insta heals, keys, flashlights?
It's exactly the same dude
Insta heals don't exist.
Toolboxes are weak.
Flashlights are easily the weakest item in the game. Look at a wall.
Keys are strong, but if you slug early on and win before they can use them, they aren't a problem.
Franklin's does not help you win, even against keys. If they want to escape by key, they'll just drop the item so Franklin's will do nothing.
Franklin's was just a griefing perk, meant to waste survivors blood points, of which they already don't get enough.
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I think it's fine. Franklin's didn't help you win anyways. It was just a toxic perk meant to ruin other people's fun. There is quite literally no purpose in running it outside of ruining other people's fun.
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@Artemis5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2273987#Comment_2273987
Sure, that's what I thought as well - but that's no reason to make a match completely miserable for someone because you are still learning a new killer. So I guess this is my PSA lol - by face camping someone, you learn no skill, you don't get any practice - it just sucks for that survivor and the killer is still less skilled than they would've been if they had actually TRIED to play the killer.
They were a new killer. They don't know any better. Just the fact that you even got CAUGHT by them is enough to question your own skill.
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@Crackgear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2271434#Comment_2271434
You can actually alot of other similar games had the same case and much to perfect its craft over the years. Check out Nintendo's Smash Bros all characters are viable and have very altering kits. You can seriously win with any character if you put your mind and soul to it.
That's exactly like dbd. I can tell by this post that you aren't very experienced with dbd though, so I'll explain it.
Oh, and the reason I can tell you aren't experienced is solely because you think this is a comp game.
Anyways, different killers have different powers, obviously. So tell me. How exactly do you make a killer with easily dodgeable bear traps equal in power to a killer that can go through walls? The answer is that you can't. You can never make killers have the same level of power.
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Jeez I wonder why😑
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@FancyMrB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2271273#Comment_2271273
My fav ones are the challenges with perks. Those ones seem pretty harmless.
What kind of challenges would you like to see in the game?
I'd like to see ones that are actually challenging, but not miserable to go against. For example, run dull bracelet on Nurse and get a 4k before all the gems are done.
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Most "challenges" aren't challenging at all. They just force you to play on a way that isn't fun for the other side.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2271217#Comment_2271217
Just use current franks mixtape of course
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O0ZEFXQMWL17/88b6a36b-a676-42be-9126-0241f9624c04.jpeg
😂😂
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How about you can down with their power and mending timer goes down when not in chase? Oh wait...
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@Product said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2271177#Comment_2271177
In this video he pretty much used all of his perks just to get a really strong medkit. This means he has to for-go using much stronger standard survivors perks such as dead hard, adrenaline, iron will, etc. Healing really fast is nice but I don't think that would have payed off had he gone against a better killer and not a rank 13. For the toolbox part it seems that he was able to queue with his friend again and that's why they finished a generator extremely quickly. Again, having to use built to last and streetwise cost him 2 valuable perk slots that he could have used for better perks.
I wasn't referring to the medkit part
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https://youtu.be/OpoOdnDbdDw@Product said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2271145#Comment_2271145
I disagree with this because receiving 75% more charges on a toolbox would only save about 10 seconds off a gen with the strongest toolbox (commodious with socket swivels and wire spool). Brand New Parts is much stronger than that and cannot be used with Built to Last. I would also argue that a perk slot is more valuable than an item with 75% of its charges.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2271153#Comment_2271153
I know that the permanent stagger reduction could make some loops extremely strong, but I would argue that those loops need to be better designed. Balanced Landing is the second worst exhaustion perk in the game and some maps you can't even use it on
Enough said
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I like most of these, but built to last would be OP. People have already shown how powerful it is with genrush toolboxes.
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Hawkins. Remove that #########
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It's not outdated. Actually, it's balanced. You lose pressure by chasing at areas where it'll spawn, but the basement let's you regain that pressure as a reward.
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@Konnor24 said:
Is Gen tapping still a thing? I know people used to do it to counter the old hex:ruin but why do people do it now?
I havent seen it since those changes. So i dont see the point?
They mean tapping it to instantly remove regression in chase.
@humanbeing1704 said:
lmao how is gen tapping an issue? Does old ruin exist still? Are you playing a old version of dbd?
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2269095#Comment_2269095
RNG doesn't always mean bad. If life hates you like it hates me, sure, but it's not consistently bad.
Don't ambush then. Especially with combat straps, it's always the better choice to uncrouch and m1. The ambush is a gimmick and only should be used at short loops without visibility. Same thing goes with crouching. Crouch tactically, when you know a survivor is going to be somewhere and you're approaching them with the element of surprise.
RNG does always mean bad. It can work for you, but it's not consistent enough to be good. I agree with not ambushing, but crouching, uncrouching, and M1ing is also a gimmick. It won't work on good survivors either.
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When people do that ######### to me, I just wait out the timer, and pick them up. If they have DS, I'll have them down again in two blinks. I will personally tunnel people who do that to death. You want my attention? Take it.
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@reeves7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2266206#Comment_2266206
thats what he needs 100%,BHVR DEVS WAKE UP !!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly. It's such a simple fix, idk why they haven't done it yet
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2268802#Comment_2268802
How can she be the most balanced when other killer who are much weaker like huntress or Demo are considered to be balanced
Even old billy was considered to gold standard and he’s always been leagues away from nurse
Balanced means strong, with counterplay.
Those killers are very balanced, but I feel that Nurse is more balanced since she takes more skill than them.
I'm not the only one with this opinion btw
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2269136#Comment_2269136
Is that why you skipped over the perks mentioned?
Lemme go back and look:
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2268779#Comment_2268779
You mean Bamboozle/Blood Favour/Crowd Control?
Or did you mean anti mind-game stuff like I'm All Ears/Stridor?
Killers cancel playstyles all the time. Try playing stealthy against Doctor. Or healer versus Plague. Run stakeout against Wraith or Pig, or Smash hit against Pyramid Head, Nurse or Huntress.
Or hell, don't even bring in perk choices or killer choices and just squat on a hook to disable rescues.
'Playstyles' get disabled all the time.
Bamboozle: Leave the loop for another one. Does not stop any playstyles.
Blood Favor: Leave the pallet, which you already should be doing even without BF. Doesn't stop any playstyles.
Crowd Control: Go to a different loop. Doesn't stop any playstyles.
I'm all ears: Watch the killer to avoid getting mindgamed. Doesn't stop any playstyles.
Stridor: Loop normally. It only does something for one killer who you can still loop. Doesn't stop any playstyles.
All of these perks are anti loop, but you can still loop killers against them, just not as effectively. None of these stop any playstyles.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2268951#Comment_2268951
You can't call me 'uneducated' while saying that cleansing enables a healer playstyle against Plague.
She doesn't always have the time to sicken you if you continue cleansing, therefore giving you the ability to heal again. Yes, it isn't as efficient, but it doesn't completely nullify the playstyle. However, even if it did, it wouldn't matter. We're talking about perks, not powers. Learn the definition of playstyle before saying that those perks disable survivor playstyles.
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Screenshot_20210614-031037-900.png Screenshot_20210614-031119-900.png Screenshot_20210614-030826-135.png
All of these would be wonderful
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She's not. I love pig, but I have to disagree with you here.
1.) Her slowdown is pure RNG. Great when it favors you, but that's not guaranteed.
2.) Her stealth is too slow.
3.) Her ambush will never work against good survivors. It's too short and telegraphed to do anything other than waste your time.
She's barely viable.
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I LOVE tinkerer Nurse. The amount of gen grabs I get is actually insane. I need to start running that again 😂
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Although this isn't what you asked for, I'd recommend watching looping tutorials. Although it's possible to lose the killer, not every killer will lose you. It's much safer to learn how to loop, so that you can survive a while before dying.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2268779#Comment_2268779
You mean Bamboozle/Blood Favour/Crowd Control?
Or did you mean anti mind-game stuff like I'm All Ears/Stridor?
Killers cancel playstyles all the time. Try playing stealthy against Doctor. Or healer versus Plague. Run stakeout against Wraith or Pig, or Smash hit against Pyramid Head, Nurse or Huntress.
Or hell, don't even bring in perk choices or killer choices and just squat on a hook to disable rescues.
'Playstyles' get disabled all the time.
Play styles don't. Those perks only hinder play styles.
You can use lockers against Doc and cleanse against Plague.
I don't think you know the definition of playstyle, because your comment is so uneducated it's mind-blowing
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@Baby_Victor said:
I’m sure some/most of us have eventually found and tried one or two of these quizzes. Just wondering if you have and what they suggested.
Apparently I’m, in theory, a Trapper Main. I barely play Trapper, I’ll even trash his Daily if all three are Killer related lol. Still, I do occasionally have a good time with him. Apart of me is hoping for a buff that makes him just slightly more interesting or impactful, then maybe I’ll finally obey the quiz results~
I got Michael, then retook it to get Nurse
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I can only think of one:
Nurse Main: Automatically win every single game you play, and find a way to relate every killers power to Spencer's Last Breath
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Nurse is only as good as the person playing her, while still retaining viable counterplay, even against the best ones. She's the most balanced killer in the game.
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Yeah I'd like this. I sometimes depip when I win, so sometimes I'm at rank 2 instead of rank 1 which really sucks, as I have in my PSN description "R1 Nurse Main"
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@Ramxenoc445 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2232532#Comment_2232532
Okay but running?? That's a core mechanic that'd be like me saying a perk to remove killers being able to swing.
Yeah it was a bad analogy. How about a killer perk that prevented looping?
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I loaded in as Huntress, and threw a random hatchet and it HIT someone. Did I mention I was running iri head?
It was a total accident, but a very satisfying one
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@theplaggg said:
I've read that Trickster has a lullaby. Survivors will still have that indication whenever you get closer. Does M&A really work o n him?
He does, but his lullaby is his quiet laughter. It isn't directional.
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Dang. I'm definitely trying this out when I can play again
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@GPdMK2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2267235#Comment_2267235
So why we still are locked into ranked matches? That's exactly the point of a casual mode. This game is not nearly close to be balanced so we can have some variety when it comes to high rank matches. It's not every time that I want to play nurse/ spirit, or suffer playing a m1 killer. I can win matches with regular killers, even at the red ranks. But more often than not you face good survivors that know that you're as intimidating as a potato bag rolling after then as long as they have you running in a good loop. DBD is not a game that I want to test my skills in every match, because I know that are too many factors out of my control in every game that already determines who will "win" before it even started. Just give me a casual mode where people don't care that much about who will win, and specially mixing people of all skill levels.
Either that or make every killer somewhat viable. But I figure that creating a casual mode would be easier than that, considering that we still have the same type of problems that we had 5 years ago when it comes to balance, and honestly I don't even know if this game can be balanced at all. (Once again, you can win games with every killer even at the high ranks, but as soon as you get two survivor teams in a row, that can play with you in any way they want unless you are a Nurse/ hag or spirit, it can feel very underwhelming)
High ranking survivors are almost always potatoes. It's so easy to rank up as survivor that the average rank 1 survivor should be at rank 15. Ranking up as killer, however, is much more difficult because the emblems don't favor you. Most rank 1 killers deserve their rank. You should have no problem at least 2king in all of your games as killer.
Every killer is viable, it's just a matter of degree. If you want to win without effort, play Spirit, or survivor.
I personally haven't gone up against a good Nurse in a long time, unfortunately. They are quite rare. And Spirit? For some reason I haven't seen her very much either. All I get now are Demos and Bubba's, not that I'm complaining about that.
And as killer, all I get are potatoes. I main Nurse, yes, but I could also win the games I play as her with any other killer, besides maybe Trickster, as I don't have a good build on him yet.
These are the survivors that I normally get:
https://youtu.be/bEjBP30yo1EAnd I handicapped myself very heavily in this match too, to make it last longer than about 2 minutes. If this isn't casual idk what is, especially considering I'm not a comp player.
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@MindGame3301 said:
Dead by daylight has a huge roster. I have nearly 3000hours of experince. I have calculated average cost for levels. Like 500kbp from 1 to 25 and 1mil from 25 to 50. It's about 1.6mil but usually a bit less going for yellow and grey. 1.6 x 3 (50 then p150 p250) 4.8mil x 25 = 120mil for all p250 survivors. Not including perks, keep in mind there are 89 survivor perks and three tiers. 89 x 3 = 267. 267 - 45 = 222 ÷ 2 = 111. Basically it takes about 156 bloodwebs to get all the perks on a character minimum. That's about 9million give or take. 9mil x 25 =225mil to get from level 1 to all perks. In total if you want prestige it'll cost a minimum of 345million bloodpoints. On average a survivor gets about 20k a game and gets let's say 6games an hour (prob less). 20k x 6 = 120k. 120k/hour. It's basically a character max optimally ever 115 hours. This is all mainly guessing but it shouldn't take that long to level up one character. 115hours of playtime.
Is 115hours of Match time reasonable and intended? When will we see our score per min. Mmr would work better if we had real stats. Like gen time chase time etc. Leaderboards at the end of matches.
Quality...
For me it takes maybe a week at most. But I play this game way too much for my own good, so there's that.
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This game already is casual
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@Sir_Child1234 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2263389#Comment_2263389
ah okay thanks for telling me
No problem
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@ChronoSeth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2267147#Comment_2267147
The change is that you get to see the auras of the switches from the start of the game until the end. Allowing you to plan.
But then what is the aura reveal that activates once the gens are done? I don't use wake up much, so I'm a bit confused with that
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@WishIcouldmain said:
Because Almo and others got reversed chainsawed while hiding in a corner.
The sad thing is that I can see this being the reason for the nerf. Remember Huntress Lullaby? 🤣
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What exactly is the change here? This sounds like current wake up.
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@Vulgun said:
A sequel to my rather infamous post regarding Counterforce, I should at least state why it will be bad for the game and give very valid arguments that will let you see the problem with it in full.
The Perk has no Counterplay And Still Rewards the User
Now I'll hear every single one of you say, "But it does have counterplay, just don't run Hex Perks!", but therein lies the problem. That's not an actual fix to the issue that this has. Even if you do not run Hex Perks, there still runs the problem of the Survivor cleansing the totems as a distraction. And if you do not run Hex Perks, that accomplishes nothing; instead, Counterforce has accomplished its task of countering the Killer in full by getting rid of their ability to use Hex Perks altogether.
Not only that, but cleansing a totem still rewards either 1000 or 1500 Bloodpoints per cleansed totem, meaning that you are still rewarded for using this perk, regardless. Even without running a Hex Perk, this perk still has an upside to it that can allow it to be used in the average match.
Hex Perks will Die Significantly Faster
Say that you do want to run your Hex Perks, your Ruins, your Devour Hopes, your (for some reason) Thrills of the Hunt. That's good and all, but expect these perks to just flat out go away within the first minute or so of the match just because of how Counterforce works, especially in tandem with the Map and Detective's Hunch.
And reminder, you gain a 20% base increase in cleansing speed for the first Totem, then a stackable 20% per Totem cleansed, meaning that all of those perks are going to die pretty fast. Unless you're a high-mobility Killer, you are more than likely not going to get them once they get your Totems.
Oh, and it doesn't help that the Perk allows you to see the furthest Totem for a few seconds, which you know, kind of speeds up the process even more.
And if you think Thrill of the Hunt will save you, it won't.
This Perk is Competitively Unbalanced
Now, Nurse and Spirit aside (because I know people will mention them), think about how this will affect the game competitively. Many competitive Killers run Ruin + Undying for a reason, and that's to ensure that they get the most value out of their totems before they are inevitably destroyed or they can win.
Well, guess what? Goodbye Ruin + Undying for them because those Totems will die pretty fast to a potential "Cleansing Squad" or a solo "Cleaner", as I'll dub them, who'll go across the maps to scrub off all the Totems before you even get the chance to use your Hex Perks. And hey, it'll be 20% faster so that you get to hear that sweet, sweet boom of your Perks collapsing before your very eyes.
The Perks hit Worst by This Are...
- No One Escapes Death; this is self-explanatory, since it won't see the light of day at all even in casual matches.
- Huntress Lullaby; again, something that's going to die pretty fast as soon as people figure out that it's active.
- Thrill of the Hunt; so remember when I said it won't save you? Well, for each totem remaining in the Trial grounds, you gain a stackable 6% reduction in Survivor cleansing speed. But for each totem cleansed, you lose 6% of that stack, meaning it's now down to 24%, then 18%, 12%, 6%.
- Then you take into equation Counterforce's ability to gain a stackable 20% cleansing speed on totems, plus another 20% per totem cleansed. So now the real difference is:
- 5 Totems (Counterforce vs Thrill): -10%
- 4 Totems: +16%
- 3 Totems: +42%
- 2 Totems: +68%
- 1 Totem: +94%
- Undying; this is what the perk was probably intended to counter.
- Ruin; same with this one.
The Third Seal, Crowd Control and Blood Favor aren't as affected by it because let's be honest, they're the worse Hex Perks to run.
The Hex Perks that will Benefit from this Are...
- Haunted Ground; this one has the only ability to just cause the Exposed status effect on Survivors when they cleanse a totem, meaning that if you're at least a higher mobility Killer or are on top of a Survivor or two right afterwards, you'll be able to actually get value against Counterforce.
- A powerful combination you could possibly run is to just have Haunted Ground + Undying, but a counter to that is to simply cleanse all of the Dull Totems first, then strike at the lit totems, if you can.
- Retribution; this one will benefit from just general Survivor usage against Totems; suffering the Oblivious status effect means that you'll be able to sneak up on them within due time and take them out. It's also a benefit if they aren't running aura-counter perks so that you can see when they cleanse a Hex Totem, which will allow you to possibly intercept them on their merry way to counter your totems.
- A very powerful combination could be utilizing this in tandem with Haunted Ground simply because you get valuable information, plus the ability to sneak up and one-hit the Survivor that used this perk (or just cleansed it in general). 10 seconds of knowing where they're going will be most beneficial.
- This...could just be countered by two people running Counterforce.
At the End of the Day...
Counterforce is going to be a Perk that will shake up the metagame, sure, but it will do so for all the wrong reasons. What was once the potential to have a Hex Perk last either 15 seconds up to perhaps the entire match, is now a guaranteed loss of that Hex Perk long before the match is even over, and in fact, the loss of all totems before the match is over.
There's no real counterplay to this, there's no penalties for running this, and you are still rewarded for cleansing totems regardless.
Hex Totems will inevitably all die out once this perk becomes commonplace, and it's not like this Perk will be unusable once it's done its job, since you still get points for cleansing the totems.
I only see the death of Hex Totems once this perk releases Tuesday along with the Resident Evil chapter. Hex Totems were never a problem, in all honesty.
But now one Perk will always be a problem because of the threat it will always pose.
If you run Hex Perks, it will do its job. If you don't run Hex Perks, it's done its job and can do more.
Small game is better and no one runs it, so I highly doubt it'll be a problem
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@Phasmamain said:
Wouldn’t having that much FOV be considered cheating?
It should be, but the devs can't do anything about it
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2267067#Comment_2267067
Oh fair enough. I only started maining him after his rework but I’d like to try his old version again at least base kit
Same, except I mained him at the time of the rework