Why are the devs biased towards certain killers?
This was just something I was thinking about recently ever since huntress got her add on pass. It feels like the devs are definitely biased towards certain killers and there’s no better example then what happened with billy.
So it was common consensus during Billy’s prime that the only issue he had were his add ons mainly the charge time ones. Pretty much everyone including a lot of very good billy players wanted these changed.
So when billy finally got his long awaited add on pass what did we get? A bunch of useless add ons (And one good one) and an unnecessary mechanic that turns new p,Ayers off of him and encourages the billy to avoid using his power.Not only this but on the PTB they thought the overheat which was meant to be very tame didn’t do enough so they nerfed his heat recovery by quite a lot. And since then the devs haven’t said one single word about him.
This brings me onto our other killer the huntress. Similar to billy huntress was in a great spot only needing minor changes. These changes were fixes to her hitboxes and the reworking of add ons (Namely exhaustion and iri head)
So what did we get? Unlike clown, doctor and demo huntress actually got to keep her exhaustion add on and they still haven’t given a reason as to why. Iri head got a boring albeit needed rework and most annoyingly of all her hitboxes stayed the exact same.
The devs old excuse for her truck sized hitboxes were that the game was more casual and didn’t need precise hitboxes. This argument literally falls apart once you realise slinger and trickster both exist. Why make billy harder to play with a micromanaging overheat system while huntress doesn’t even have to be slightly more precise?
For anyone saying that hitbox changes would cause issues with cross map shots or just long range shots in general I have an easy solution . Your hatchets hitbox will become bigger the longer it is in the air so that cross maps stay virtually the same while shots around loops and other tiles feel more fair for both sides.
Overall it just feels like the devs have some bias when it comes to changing killers which is not a good thing in the slightest
Comments
Bro…free killers need to be nerfed and less fun. DLC is $$$.
But huntress is free though
Because Almo and others got reversed chainsawed while hiding in a corner.
I think we found the answer boys
You're overlooking one giant ######### elephant in the room: Billy came first.
That nerf was a total cluster ######### and the Devs know it. If they had decided to go with Huntress first and then Billy, you can be guaranteed that we'd all be bitching about how Huntress has no good addons and her power is uncomfortable and punishing.
Billy was the first of the addon-passes/slight reworks, and the Devs are well aware they went way too far on both. And to be perfectly honest, they're probably happy with people not complaining about Billy every other day because they got Billy confused with Instasaw, which also existed for Bubba.
This could definitely be true but then that begs the question. Why haven’t they come out and said anything about him yet?
Not to mention they nerfed him after PTB too
The sad thing is that I can see this being the reason for the nerf. Remember Huntress Lullaby? 🤣
That’s a fair point actually I’ve never really seen the devs play billy tbh
Don’t remind me that clip was hilarious!
They haven't said anything because they really don't give a crap. Just look at the reasons for overheat, when it first came to live everyone praised it because it did nothing but prevent facecamping. Then the Devs said they wanted it to be more impactful and set it to somewhere between PTB and live release Overheat. Why? Because they wanted to throw a bone to the person who developed it.
They have a history of just not giving a crap once people stop complaining about how OP a killer is. Look at Legion, or Pyramid Head. No changes at all despite the complaints, because PH isn't played much after they made his playstyle require some basic effort, and Legion hasn't been changed since they made Forever Legion go away and buffed their movement speed (except for how they recently made Forever Legion come back because BHVR Logic).
Personally, I'm just glad that Demogorgon and Huntress didn't get the same treatment, and it really does feel like they're learning what makes the community riot.
I think demo was the perfect rework tbh but huntress still needs her hitboxes adjusted and exhaustion add on removed.
But yeah it’s almost been a year with the new billy and the devs have made pretty much no comment on him. Same goes for slinger too now that I think about it even though his entire counterplay is removed when he walks backwards
As a former Slinger main, I have to ask: Counterplay? Surely you're not meaning predropping pallets and breaking LoS, that is absolutely not counterplay. I mained Slinger because that didn't work against him.
And yeah, Huntress needs her beachballs replaced with discs, but the Devs don't seem to want to. Probably scared of annoying the community.
The old flawed logic that once something is not """""OP""""" anymore, they don't give a #########. Billy is stuck with a bad version of his power, same can be said about Freddy, and the devs have not said a word.
Demo, Huntress and every other who received changes escaped this treatment because of sheer luck, nothing else.
That sounds about right. Clown is kinda in a similar zone too tbh since not many are happy with his rework
I was referring to the “counter” of using objects or other survivors to break the chain. If the deathslinger walks backward however survivors cannot catch up and the speared survivor has pretty much no movement
Indeed, forgot about him.
And I don't understand how hard it is to listen to the community. Every thread which showed that people prefer Old Freddy, every thread explaining the problems with Billy's nerf, even the mega thread regarding console optimization. How hard it is to take them into consideration?
It cannot possibly be THAT hard.
Remember when instablinds were just ok and the devs didn't care until Mcote played at an event and basically had an unplayable match against a 4man with instablinds?
I member.
Don't worry one of the lead devs will play against a Stridor Spirit at some point.
That's actually very true! He has openly said in his stream that he thought Billy feathering his chainsaw and curving behind a corner was unfair. Billy's overheat exist solely because of him.
It's not so much a case of free characters. There's a bunch of Huntress mains among the devs. I'm not joking. You're definitely not dreaming when you see a double standard.
Iri head was gonna be nerfed anyway. So, that doesn't mean much. The exhaustion add-on she kept is basically meant to be anti dead hard. She kept charge and cooldown addons (rip Billy). She even got new strong addons with the flight speed ones.
Her add-on pass was a net buff and there's a clear double standard.
Her basekit wasn't touched. Again, double standard.
I always wondered why Huntress kept her exhaustion addon but Clown got his taken away. Never got an answer though....Well I actually did "My question was off topic for the thread".
Gonna be honest, I had no idea people even thought that breaking the chain was ever considered counterplay.
Except Almo didn't work on Billy's rework
I’m just going to say something. I know it’s a joke and you guys love to bully him but Almo didn’t do Billy’s nerf. I know Mandy said it’s a team effort and all designers need to talk in order to make a decision but awhile back there was a page like this and someone made a picture and speaking of it I have it here
It’s cut off but Almo never worked on Billy’s change he only did the ones listed so none of your jokes make no sense?!
It’s technically counterplay since you are doing something to avoid getting downed by him
I don't want to put all the blame on Almo, but i genuinely believe part of the reason why Billy got over nerfed is because of him. Definitely not just a coincidence that he happens to play Huntress very often.
I saw old clips of him insisting that even old base kit Billy was too strong and needed a nerf. Whenever McLean plays Billy on his stream, half of the chat always starts complaining about the nerf and his bugs, and you can see him trying to ignore the comments.
Yeah no people do rag on him to hard. If you’ve played apex their lead game designer Daniel klein is in a similar position
I mean if he did the demo and doctor reworks it shows he can definitely make great changes
Full list of his reworks if your interested: http://www.maniac-games.com/TwitchChannel/Balance.html
Tbh most of these are pretty good barring a few outliers.
Just goes to show negativity bias I guess
Oh yeah, so because of that he clearly had 0 impact on the nerf... come on dude
https://youtu.be/3I81sWuDWvEMinute 8:38
Can't link directly timestamp since i'm on the phone
To be honest, I'm not sure they're learning what makes the community riot. Learning to react to community rioting, maybe. Yes, they walked back the rat liver nerf on Demo, but that was because everyone started screaming bloody murder about it - the fact that they ever thought that was a good idea shows they didn't have a finger on the pulse of player feedback, because the necessity of rat liver was the single loudest and most consistent piece of feedback Demo ever got. Plus most of Demo's tweaks didn't really address his problems - he got some nice addons and he's better off than before, largely because of basekit shred speed, but he has the same problems with giving too much information to survivors. And the iri head change wasn't one that anyone was really asking for or satisfied with, beyond the relief that iribelt is no longer a thing.
I'm pretty sure they know they ######### up with Billy, but don't want to address it because there's other killers they'd rather get to on their schedule and they don't know how to balance it anyway. I doubt they understand what's wrong with his addons.
Barb’s glasses and black heart make him quite good tbh. Rat liver wasn’t even necessary before imo it just felt nice to have on
Yeah, he has some nice addons (those two are major QOLs when playing him and feel really smooth, Lifeguard Whistle is brilliant, and both of his iris became pretty good), but a couple of other ones were inexplicably nerfed, most of his purples are still useless, and the changes to his basekit were largely pointless until they buffed his base shred movement speed. The teleportation cooldown will very rarely make a difference with how Demo plays, and increasing his Undetectable by one second fails to understand why that Undetectable is virtually useless on Demo. It's like Bone Clapper Wraith if the Wraith wasn't invisible, could only lunge in a perfectly straight line, and had huge stompy feet.
I don't know, it largely felt like his rework didn't understand what was actually wanted with him until they made retroactive changes. No addon pass is ever going to be as horrible as Billy's, BHVR willing, and I'm very glad that Demo's addons were a net improvement, but it's not one where I give them points for understanding community feedback beforehand.
That would imply the Design team collectively didn't have any input which I find to be next to impossible.
Didn't realize that assumed he did since he has critiqued some of his strategies and he's the lead game designer. And seeing anything Legion makes me laugh.
According the Statistics everyone hated Hillbilly nerf when he was doing the same as other lower tier killers
That’s why you can’t always assume and also he says ######### all the time he said trickster wouldn’t be buffed for 2 months and yet they buffed him in a week he says stuff all the time but he doesn’t actually mean it
Forgive me for thinking that the lead game designer would have worked on one of the most controversial killer changes in a while.
I saw him talk just because he said Billy was OP doesn’t mean he contributed to it he’s not the only game designer they have so many. Also he said I’m sorry but he was op that doesn’t mean he worked on it he never said he worked on it and Freddy was a bit cheap and overpreforming but he’s still the same Freddy.
(Also The guy you showed has a bias of hating on them when they change killers and not survivors)
Watch it, Bro,
This guy is taboo on the forums.
BHVR hated him cause he spoke the truth, so they banned him.
Trapper is the poster boy yet can't carry 2 traps (still)
you replied to the wrong guy
He wasn’t banned for speaking the truth he was banned cause he harassed and insulted the devs and he’s extremely biased towards killer he says killers always get nerfed and they need to buff killers but he always ignores survivors. I imagine survivor mains saying “screw you what about us?” I know the main reason he was banned though but I can’t say cause it’s against the rules go to my channel to find out
I forgive you. That’s why you do research and don’t always ride the bandwagon and hate in someone even though he did make some great changes
I didn't?
BHVR wanted the guy off the forums for a long while.
Yeah, I watch him, amongst others that criticize BHVR for their lack of common sense, amongst others. I know the true reason he was banned as well.
You said watch it bro that guy responded to me because I said Almo never worked on Billy’s change and yet he’s trying to prove it by showing clips of Almo saying everything is stats and op what he says never happens it’s not true not everything he says happens
I replied to him because he posted a video about a guy who is not very welcomed on the forums. So I just warned him about it.
So I don't know alot about this Almo guy but looking at the list of nerfs he's contributed too all I see is killers I think are still crappy to play against Or as.
Legion, Huntress add-ons, Executioner(don't mind this one), twins(still massively boring and annoying hit boxes), Doc. I won't hate on someone I don't know much about but from what I've seen the nerfs haven't really fitted into the main issues.
I won't blame him solely it's a team effort on BHVRs part so the way I see it they're all equally to blame especially for the release of a certain killer who is underpowered and useless in all situations.
Why do you care defending him so much anyway? Almo didn't like old Billy, he may not have been fully responsible but saying that the lead designer of the game didn't have any involvement makes no sense.
Anyway, it's stuff of the past, doesn't really matter who and why they did it. What matters it's been enough time of Billy being left to rot that he needs a change.
The doc rework was pretty good imo
Huntress gets a free pass when it comes to balancing. Clown loses his exhaustion gas but a hatchet can keep it?
Huntress is still the same overpowered killer as was way before so many survivor nerfs.
Also half of all pallets have been eradicated. Huntress still has FIVE hatchets despite all of these changes. Not to mention the vast number of deadzones.
Can you show me the clip. ?D: