ChiSoxFan11
ChiSoxFan11
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@Sherry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1679519#Comment_1679519
How old are you?
Younger than you -- but not by much, lol.
You're only as old as you feel, though, right? 🙂
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@slendermansmoom said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/290079/bug-or-feature
what killer where you going against?
The "Unbeatable" Blight, running Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer/BBQ meta build (with Vigo's Journal for Undetectable while rushing to add a little extra spice).
Not that there's anything wrong with any of that, lol. 4-person escape on Father Campbell's Chapel, FWIW (the Blight picked the map as well).
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2590020#Comment_2590020
See when I was on ps4 the idea of postgame chat sounded horrific since I had to turn off my messages there and I assumed it would be that but worse, but although there is plenty of salt and stuff it's nice to be able to chat to the more sane teammates + opponents about the match afterwards. If the chat was always or even mostly horrible I would've just minimised it permanently long ago.
I can see your point. Usually, the only people I communicate with over the PS App are people I reach out to myself, usually after someone has played really well against me, thanking someone after they've given me a mercy hatch or escape or farmed after a DC, or the like. The people I SWF as a survivor I met, ironically enough, after going against them as killer.
In one of my first weeks playing the game, I was told to kill myself and uninstall (not sure in which order, lol) after I didn't go down into the basement of The Game map against an Insidious Bubba (my friend was on a hook and told me what was happening) to save someone else (I waited it out and escaped during hatch). Being new to online gaming, I asked my friend what was wrong with people -- he told me I either had to get used to it or turn off my messages. At my age, I'm too old for that type of juvenile stuff, so it was an easy choice.
It would be nice to have pleasant interactions with the people you play with after matches, but the people who can't do that ruin everything for everyone else.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Wait, I play both killer and survivor. Which one am I grouped with? Am I a killer? Am I a survivor? Which toxic side am I???
Anyone who's not toxic in end game chat is allowed to complain. People play both sides, and people are the ones who can be toxic. Grouping everyone together in this game isn't helpful or constructive.
End game chat is a terrible place, I don't understand why some people want it brought to consoles. 99% of the time it's mentioned on these forums, it's for negative reasons.
Agree completely with the last statement. End game chat could be eliminated entirely, and the game wouldn't suffer in the slightest. I'm thankful to be on console where it's not a thing, and if the devs ever waste their time implementing it there (time that could be better served doing ANYTHING else to improve game health), there better be an easy way to turn it off beforehand.
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Congrats! 🎂
(That emoji is a cake, right? I'm so old, my eyesight is terrible, lol 🤣).
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As others have pointed out already, it's not the role that's toxic -- it's the person behind the keyboard/controller.
I played a solo survivor round yesterday against a Pig on The Game (running the TT/COG combo. The match went pretty well -- I finished two gens solo, lit up a Boon totem for a protected area, and dodged the Pig in at least one chase. Someone on the team -- who had a "YT" designation in their name (but no sign of a channel afterwards, lol) -- got the brunt of the aggression of the killer, getting hooked twice and having an active trap when I popped the last gen. I 99'ed an exit gate, saw they were down but not getting hooked, and I went back to help (even though, as a solo, many people, if not most, are leaving at that point). After watching them get picked up by someone else and downed again, the other solo player pulled the Pig away, I jumped downstairs and picked up this person, and they scrambled to get their trap off (which they did). I unhooked the other solo player, we all scrambled to the OTHER exit (not the one I'd 99'ed) which had not been prepped (it was at 80% or so). The YT guy got downed again, despite the team's efforts to body block, I finished opening the door, that person died, and the rest of us escaped.
I'm on console (PS5), and my messages are turned off, so when I got a friend request from the YT guy, I guessed it was going to be to thank me for not abandoning him, for picking him up at the end, and trying to take hits to save them at the door. He wanted me to join a voice chat (with someone who was apparently his teammate) -- I guessed that they might have wanted to add a 3rd to their party. I'm very hesitant to join in with people I don't know, so I didn't do so -- but he started sending voice messages through the PS App instead.
When I listened to them, I had to shake my head. There were numerous messages yelling at me for not having the gate 99'ed, being too stupid to play the game correctly, that I must be a Rank 20, I shouldn't bother playing, and that I should just uninstall. 🤣🤦♂️
After a good laugh, I typed back that I HAD 99'ed the OTHER exit gate, that I could have easily left but came back to help, and that whatever mistakes were made with the gate we ended up at, he was barking up the wrong tree. That was followed by another message of him stammering, backpedaling, sort-of-apologizing, and blaming the other solo for being an "idiot". My last message to them before unfriending and blocking them was to tell them that not only was I nominally a Rank 1 survivor and killer and not a "Rank 20" by any stretch, but next time he should think twice before messaging someone to berate them without knowing what he was talking about -- or maybe think twice and don't message anyone at ALL, and that maybe he should remember that, at the end of the day, it's just a GAME, and not a real life-or-death situation.
Some people just don't get that last part, though, and that's what's the sad thing.
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@str4wberryp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2588625#Comment_2588625
bruh ######### how is 350 hours not a high volume? You could learn a language with that time
Anyway, I don't think Pig was nerfed, she actually got an addon that makes every survivor start with a reverse bear trap. Just imagine how this changes her gameplay: you don't even need to down survivors anymore to attach the traps lol
Not to pile on, but as others have pointed out, 100 hours at survivor is relatively little in comparison to veteran players of the game. I probably have somewhere bordering on 1500+ hours (maybe more at this point) total, and I'm still learning things all the time to get better. There are players with literally 5000+ hours in the game and more.
And as a Pig player, she's on the bottom end of pretty much every Tier list put out by people who know the game well. As a Pig player primarily, I think she's underrated and better than people give her credit for, but she's nowhere near needing any nerfs, and she still could use buffs to her base kit (mainly crouch speed and movement speed when crouched). While I'll disagree with the people who think her add-on changes were a heavy nerf, and while I think the new add-on you mention could be useful (if paired with Rules Set No. 2), it's nowhere near as good as you might think it is. Traps are her main way to slowdown the match, and with the new add-on you're referencing, once the traps are off, ALL of that potential pressure is gone. With RNG being so fickle (I can't count the number of times survivors get my traps off on their 1st attempt -- it's depressing), that can and will easily be as much of a disaster for a Pig player as a help.
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Are we living in a world where people are complaining about Clown, of all killers? 🤦♂️
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If I had to say I "main" someone, it would be Piggie. When I first started playing killer, I started with Myers, then went to Ghostface, then found The Pig and played her almost exclusively for a while.
Over time, though, I wanted to experiment with the others -- now I play everyone on the roster. There are ones I'm really good with and others I'm still learning as I go. But at heart, I'm always going to be a Pig player first. I think I'm best with her, o have the most fun with her (especially when I run into survivors willing to meme around), and I still play her most often.
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I'm currently sitting at all but 3 Adepts. I have everyone but Trapper (I was waiting for the changes to try him), Bubba (who I'm TERRIBLE with and need a ton of practice, and Freddy (who I'm likely to have very high SBMM on). The rest I've gotten, some easier than others.
I didn't care about Adepts initially, but as a challenge, I decided to start trying them. If nothing else, doing so illustrates a number of things: how the Emblem system punishes you in some instances for the stupidest reasons (for example, Plague gets hurt in Malicious by survivors constantly cleansing), how playing TOO well can rob you of Merciless if the match ends too fast, etc.), how much harder it is to get Adept than it is as survivor, and just how useless so many perks are in the game when they're all you have to rely on. I think, though, playing Adept challenges helped me to get better with the killers I used them with, and it helped me focus on different playstyles in those matches than I normally play, which I think helped me improve overall.
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@Swampoffering said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2585328#Comment_2585328
When you run Lethal Pursuer and you see 3 survivors spawning near a gen..... Cling cling cling xD
Or even better: spawning in the middle of the map on Ormond -- and seeing Discordance go off on two separate generators at the complete opposite sides of the map from one another diagonally. In a lobby with 4 toolboxes in it. Good times. 🤣
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2584462#Comment_2584462
Even a mediocre killer will prevent you from doing much in the match. Play a random solo match, on average everyone gets less than 10K while the killer gets an astonishing 30K or more. The survivor objective is way too difficult to do because killers can apply too much pressure with so many objectives the survivors must do.
This issue is then compounded when killers have perks that literally win the game for them.
Even though I know you're constantly just trolling -- it's your thing 😉 -- and seeing your posts is like seeing an old favorite TV show or movie on and having a warm feeling of comfort to know exactly what I'm getting by seeing it -- in just the slightest chance you actually believe what you post most of the time, I really think you've missed your calling. Whtever machine you invented to enter the alternate realities you play the game in would certainly make you much more famous (and wealthy!) than your fame (infamy?) you have on this message board. 😉
The number of matches I get less than 10K as a survivor are ridiculously small, even when the match doesn't end favorably. I played numerous solo survivor rounds last night and was routinely topping 20K in those matches, including a round over 30K -- and that's not unusual for me (especially when I'm playing in my SWF groups). On average, I have to be getting 15K a game as survivor if I had to take a guess (my next long survivor session, I might actually keep track and see -- it's possible I'm overestimating my numbers, but I don't feel like it).
Killers do get more BP, but considering that, during the game's peak hours of evening into early morning, there's usually a drastic shortage of people playing that role (hence the long survivor queue times during those hours), even that incentive doesn't help the imbalance -- a lot of people actually play killer ONLY to farm BP. Remove that incentive and those players stick to survivor-only play, and the queue issues only multiply, inadvertently making it harder to get BP as survivor since matches will be even fewer in number during those times than they already can be.
I DO favor making it easier to get WGLF stacks (something with healing, maybe, to put it on a better footing with BBQ). Raising BP caps across the board for all categories might be a good fix as well. And obviously, the main elephant in the room is the grind itself -- too many levels of too many perks and too many offerings/items/etc. clogging up Bloodwebs that could be streamlined to reduce the BP grind. All of those changes, I would be firmly behind, as it would benefit ALL players of the game (especially those who play all sides of it).
ETA: Since I have SO much recorded play, I did a quick look back at a 47 match sample size (It would have been 50 games, but I threw out 2 games where everyone's BP was super-high due to something that boosted BP in-game for an event, and a match where my recording ended before the BP totals showed up at the end). In those 47 matches -- which were primarily escapes on my end, but there were games that I did die), I totaled 1,072,128 BP, for an average of 22,811. I had multiple matches over 30,000, including a perfect 32,000 in one of them. Out of 188 total possible scores for survivors in those matches, not counting DC's by players, only 11 failed to break the 10,000 mark (and again, those were not all 4-person escapes -- players died regularly -- and they were a mix of 4-person SWF games, 2-person SWF games, and Solo Survivor gameplay). 11 total for just under 6% of players who couldn't crack the 10K barrier, a far cry from "on average" (and without rewatching all of that footage, I'd guess that some of those were players who were camped or tunneled out of the game, or who quit on first hook by trying to Kobe then killing themselves after a rehook -- none of which would be considered typical.)
As a caveat, those are cherry-picked somewhat, as they are "better' results, so my average would be lower when I factor in games that didn't go so well (though, even if you removed the 5K for surviving from EVERY match I looked at above, my average would still be north of 17K without a single escape, so how much "worse" matches would skew things would be debatable) -- as I said, I'll be curious to look at a large sample size of playing only survivor for 6-7 hours upcoming at the start of the week and see how things add up then.
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Yep -- another head-scratching decision that makes one wonder if the people in charge at BHVR ever actually think things out before they act upon them sometimes.
We all knew Hawkins was going to be leaving as a map in mid-November. People making decisions at BHVR should obviously have known people had the offerings for the map, that some people like myself might be planning a marathon of using the offerings at the end (I wanted to do a s day/night of nothing but Steve/Nancy/Demo gameplay on Hawkins to send it out with a bang), and that people might have been investing BP in recent Bloodwebs to do the same thing.
With all of that obviously in play, I'll assume that several people sat in a meeting when removing the offerings came up. Reasons for removing it could have been that it was easiest to do so now in the current patch than when it's gone forever, or maybe there's some other background reason we've not privy to. And NO ONE thought to speak up and say, "Hey -- why don't we let people know we're doing this, so they don't feel like they got shafted with their offerings?". Or is someone DID speak up, someone ELSE said, "Nah ... it doesn't matter what our players might be doing with them. Make the change anyway and we just don't tell them." In either case, it's complete ignorance of how to do the little things to keep your player base happy, and it's an amazing sign that BHVR manages to almost always get these kind of things wrong on a continual basis. :facepalm:
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2583473#Comment_2583473
It's not just this. Internet generation is irresponsible. Nothing in internet is made so u are responsible for your words, that's why people show their true nature.
That's a good point. Internet anonymity certainly makes people interact with others in ways they might never do so if those interactions were in person.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2583470#Comment_2583470
I'm still getting 20 minute queues, for the record.
It's 11:00 PM here
That's a crazy wait. I don't blame you for being frustrated -- I'd be too.
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Toxicity is evident from people on both sides of the equation. Why do people do it? It's probably a sign of my age to say this, but a lot of people nowadays don't just understand the concept of good sportsmanship. For some people, being a graceful winner or a good sport when losing is a concept that's alien to them, which is a shame.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2583174#Comment_2583174
If your wait times are short at any time then your mmr is really low. This is why you have not seen any cheaters since their mmr will be high.
That's ... probably not the case. Unless you think Otzdarva has low MMR -- just looked at the VOD of his last stream, and his first match took 18 seconds to get a lobby and his second took a whopping 16 seconds. I'm guessing he's not playing at low MMR, so the idea that a short wait time = low MMR doesn't really hold water (if anyone has high MMR, it would be him, no?).
The SBMM system still prioritizes (I believe, at least) putting people into games over "fair" matchmaking -- it's why during the evening hours, when survivors and SWF groups are at their most common, killer queues are almost always instantaneous -- they were prior to the implementation of the system, and they are still that way, due to the imbalance of people playing certain roles.
Crossplay being off definitely is going to skew those times. I'm on console and have crossplay on -- definitely have run into a couple of suspicious things that I thought might have been hackers, but when the game can be so buggy at times, it's honestly hard to tell.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2577499#Comment_2577499
What happened to me was that the trap seemed to be active once a generator was completed (red icon, beeping sound on the survivor face), but the timer would simply never reach zero.
Also... the survivor even escaped with the trap on their head still ticking :|.
This being said, I also know somebody that didn't encounter this problem. Maybe it's because I'm on PS5, maybe it's happening only half of the time, still... I was a powerless Piggy :,(
i'm on PS5, and I can confirm that it happened to me in a match last night. Had an Adam with an active trap for easily 6 minutes+ before he died the old-fashioned way, lol. Survivors were running Boon Totem builds, so I wasn't sure if that was saving him or not at the time (which would have been a bug), but when I kept finding him working on gens with the trap active, I knew something was up.
FWIW, that one match I used it with Rules Set No. 2, I actually got pretty good value from it, TBH. I ran Lethal Pursuer to start a chase immediately, and while in chase, I ran across other survivors scurrying around frantically trying to get their traps off. I got a quick early down (which would have been a party hat for someone anyway, if I were playing without the add-on), and I had multiple downs with only one person getting a trap off in that time, IIRC. The person who did get the trap off popped a gen, and multiple people all of a sudden had active traps, and I felt like I had a ton of pressure on at that time in the match.
I'd like to play around with it some more, and I'd obviously like it if there were an ability to have at least a couple of more traps on hand by default, but against non-SWF groups who won't coordinate things, it might be useful (I'm pretty sure the match I had WAS against a 4-person team, and it still caused some early chaos). Against a full 4-person SWF, who might 99 gens or hold off entirely until the whole team clears their traps, that's likely where the add-on loses its potential power.
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After never caring about Adepts, I recently started a challenge to get Adepts on all killers and survivors, and I agree 100% that Killer Adept needs to be changed. I've gotten almost all of the killer ones at this point, but the inconsistencies and strange things involved in those attempts for me to get there illustrated the problems currently:
-- The Rank/Level you're at makes at HUGE difference. I started doing them before the last reset, when I was essentially at Rank 1, and it's unforgiving. You need 4 Iridescent medals, and getting some of those, even if you play a near perfect match can be super-difficult. While I did get some of mine while at that Rank/Level, when the reset turned me into an Ash 4 afterwards, I picked up a few I don't think I actualy deserved, due to it being easier to get Merciless at that level (I got my Blight even with someone escaping through the hatch in that game). That inconsistency doesn't make sense, as Survivor Adept requirements do not change no matter what Rank/Level you're at.
-- The Emblem system is flawed in how it rewards and penalizes you in-game. It took forever to get the Plague Adept, because I was continuously penalized for playing well and using her power correctly (getting people infected) and the survivors playing sub-optimally (cleansing at every opportunity, instead of waiting until the situation called for it) by losing Malicious points because the survivors "healed" so much. One-shot killers were penalized as well in Emblem performance. I completely destroyed a team as Pyramid Head and played one of the best rounds I ever have as him, but lost out essentially because I did TOO well and the match ended too quickly, with too few chases and hooks, meaning I would have had to "throw" at some point to get the Emblems I needed, which makes absolutely no sense. And I've been penalized in Chaser Emblems for being "too close to hooked survivors", when I've literally had survivors rush an unhook before I could even get away from the area, leaving me in the position to have to blindly walk away rather than punish what is, again, inefficient survivor play, to protect the Emblem score.
None of those things make any sense, and they all illustrate why Adept should have SOME change made to the Killer end. A 4K with at least Ruthless should be enough to get Adept, if not just getting a 4K regardless of your pips to put it at least somewhat on par with what the Survivor Adepts require.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2571313#Comment_2571313
I liked the previous system better because the emblem system actually took some metrics of "skill" into account. Number of hooks for killer, chase time for survivors, etc. I think it could be improved to help killers that would get penalized for using their powers like Billy and Plague, but it was closer to measuring skill than the new system.
I also liked the old system because you got feedback every match on how your performance was measured, whether you agreed with it or not.
First off, I appreciate the reply and your take on things. 👍️
IMO, the emblem system might have rewarded you for things that you did well that were "skillful" -- pipping up as a survivor even if you died, for example -- but if we're talking about Rank/Level/Grade, it still does that. The only difference now is the grind back from what's essentially Rank 20 to wherever someone wants to get to, but the Emblems are still functioning in that aspect the way they did before (with the exception that you can't lose a Rank level once you get to it, only the pips in it). I'm in complete agreement about the flaws you mentioned -- using the the last week+ since the Rank rewards were given out (and I was capped in BP) to go for Adepts showed how flawed Emblems still are (you mentioned Plague -- that might be one of the most egregious of them all).
Regarding those points, I would argue we're mostly in agreement then.
That said, I'll respectfully say that, even as the Emblem system worked to measure a person's own skill at the end of the match, it wasn't helping matchmaking to work better. Due to imbalances in people playing certain roles, during high peak hours, killers sitting in Green or even Yellow Ranks were being thrown in against Red Rank solos/SWF teams constantly (which I think is still being done currently to keep queue times lower during those periods -- which I think IS a flaw in the current system). Playing at Rank 1, I won't even go into how much of a difference there is between people at that Rank -- I won't pretend that I'm at the very best level of Red Rank players (though I wouldn't argue I was at the very worst either, lol). But at that Rank -- where the Emblem system was measuring skill in theory -- if I wanted to try a new killer for me (I'm on console, so for example, I never really touched Nurse for the longest), instead of getting thrown in against opponents I could learn against, my lobbies tended to be all really good, similarly Ranked players who I would stand no chance against, so I didn't bother trying to try out a lot of characters I wanted to before. That was something that the current system is supposed to help with, and I definitely think the difference between ratings on killers one plays should have greater variances than it currently does, from what has been reported about how it works.
And even with the previous system, depending again on what time of day it was and what queues looked like, I'd find myself inexplicably going up against opponents (either as survivor or killer) whose Rank indicated that THEY were the ones over their head in the match, with matches way to easy to 4K or escape in. While Emblems might be a better system for grading one's own ability, it just wasn't resulting in "good" matchmaking far more often than not, and it seemed to especially not work well for newer players, or players trying out new things. I'll refer again to the almost constant complaints on the forums and screenshots of horribly imbalanced Ranks in matches you'd see daily here.
I think if the new system was more comprehensive -- if it melded elements of how the Emblem system works (total hooks for killer, number of downs, length of chases, and some weight assigned to what perks you're running as opposed to focusing on just the kill count -- and number of hook rescues, chase time with the killer, other objectives completed like totems, and weight assigned to perks you're running as survivor as opposed to just whether you survived or not) with what they're trying to do, then people would be happier (or maybe not -- I think there are some players who are getting aggravated going up against "sweaty" players because that's what they are themselves, and it's not so much "fun" when everyone is trying to gain every edge they can to win -- those players won't like any system where it's not easy 4K's or easy escapes every match, so no "fair" matchmaking system will ever make that group happy. This is obviously not an implication that you or anyone else who's critical of the current system falls under that -- heck, I'M critical of elements of it and don't feel that way -- but those players are definitely out there).
In a perfect world, the devs are going to actually do more work on the system to improve it, though if I had a concern, it's that their track record suggests skepticism that they'll get that right. That last point is something we probably both agree on.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2571080#Comment_2571080
I imagine if the devs stopped hiding their crap system from players over "fears of toxicity" you would see more of those posts crop up.
It's hard to blame matchmaking when the game doesn't show you how it rates you and the other players in your match.
Right now all we have to go on is their admittedly poor metrics for determining "skill" and a general feeling of sweatier/less fun matches.
I agree that knowing how your performance in a match is getting accounted for would be a step forward in making any matchmaking system better. And as of now, I can only judge in my matches as to how my opponents "skill" is based on my experience in the game. There are clearly times I can tell when I'm getting opponents that are clearly more "inexperienced" or those that are very, very good at the game.
The general feeling of "sweaty" matches now -- well, for me at least, that was the case before SBMM just as much as it is now. Look through the forum post history before SBMM, and every day was filled with constant postings from people who complained about constantly facing sweaty killer builds, constantly facing sweaty survivor builds, "gen-rushing", killers sweating for the 4K, etc. -- so I'm not sure what's leading people to believe that these "sweaty", less-fun matches are somehow a brand-new byproduct of the SBMM going into effect.
ETA: I also believe that the current system has flaws that should be looked at and tweaked. I believe the old system was clearly not working, as evidenced by the constant complaining about it before SBMM. So as I asked someone else already, if you dislike the current system, did you think the previous one -- disliked and flawed as it was -- was better, and why?
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567491#Comment_2567491
You are aware each killer has their own MMR rating -- heavily influenced by your overall killer MMR? So you have a baseline for new killers that's inflated automatically. It's a dumb system.
Yes, I am aware. You must not have read my second reply in this thread where I clearly stated that.
If you think it's a dumb system, then I'm genuinely curious to hear your defense of the previous one, where there were literally multiple threads started daily in this forum from people who hated it because it didn't work at all. I'd also be curious how you think the old system promoted "casual" play, since that's what this topic is about.
My second reply also stated that I'm well aware that the kill/escape metric is overly simplistic, and that I'd like to see the current one improved to incorporate more parameters to measure, and that tweaking and improving on it is would be better than going back to something that didn't work. Since you think what's in place currently is "dumb", surely you have a better idea. Let's hear your alternatives, since I'm guessing you would have a preference on how matchmaking should be done otherwise?
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Also, maybe they do things differently up North, but here in the U.S., companies usually reserve announcements of bad news or things that they know will upset their consumer base until late Friday afternoons, when people are generally distracted by the upcoming weekend and more likely to miss the said announcement. Not on a Monday, when people are more likely to be paying attention. Seems they couldn't even get that right. 🤦♂️
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I think what needs to be said about this has already been said well by plenty of people in this thread, so I'll just add a quick 2 cents:
Embarrassment. Deception. Shame. Tone-Deafness. Ignorance. Lack of Awareness about your player base's stances on things.
All of those terms should apply to BHVR right now. I'd almost be surprised, if their track record didn't suggest Incompetence was another word you could add to that list.
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@BlueMeansDeep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568402#Comment_2568402
So you’re saying an extremely niche situation is enough to trump all the killers standing still with an instadown? Don’t think so. I’m a huntress main on the killer side and would do just fine with the change.
As killers we need to stop only thinking of ourselves.
If only if were a niche situation. I've easily lost count of the number of times I've gotten into chase with someone far away from a hook, then watch them beeline for the person on the hook with me right behind them, me saying, "Wait a minute -- you're not actually going to unhook them right in front of me, are you?" -- and then they do. Or the times someone has rushed the hook before I could even get away. Sometimes it's someone trying to bodyblock or flashlight save, and instead of leaving, they decide to loop me around the hooked survivor (when they drop a pallet and teabag while their teammate is headed into 2nd stage, that's always the head-scratcher). Or all of the generally unsafe hook rescues I see on a regular basis. Those aren't niche occasions -- they're all too common occurrences by survivors not playing correctly (a lot of it involves pulling someone off of hook immediately, when smart survivors know a person can sit up there for a while if need be).
And I play PLENTY of survivor myself, so I see that inefficient play from the other side too. If I had a dollar for every time myself or my friend (when we are in our 2-person SWF playing with randoms) had to tell the other one of us "The [insert random survivor name here] won't leave the hook and the killer is chasing them around me -- there's no way you're going to be able to come and get me until they get the hell out of here", I'd be able to retire to a life of luxury now, lol. ALL of what I've described is textbook BAD play as a survivor, and why a killer should get penalized for it makes no sense. Making bad decisions in game shouldn't get you a free pass. I'm not mad at the killer in those situations -- I'm mad at my teammates for not recognizing where to be and when.
I'm not the greatest survivor, but when I'm playing with a full group, these things don't happen, since we're all at least smart enough to not do dumb things like that. If you want to do something to deal with outright face-camping, that's understandable -- but the suggestion made here would do at lot more than that, which is why it's a flawed suggestion. And frankly, the number of times I've been outright face-camped outside of the EGC through literally thousands of matches at this point has been so few and far between, changing things to that extreme to stop those relatively rare occasions would be completely unnecessary.
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I'll be playing a lot tomorrow. Have close to 2 million BP between saved dailies and regular BP over the cap ready to go. Looking forward to seeing how much the Boon totems can be abused by my SWF, getting an Adept on the new survivor, and getting her perks on all of my other survivors as well.
Also, I plan to be playing killer a good bit as well to test out the new changes there. As a Pig player, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how her add-ons work now. And I've always liked playing The Plague, so I'll definitely be giving her a lot of playtime -- I'm guessing I'll like her changes, but the Boon Totem Mikaela players I go against are probably going to be less of a fan, lol. 🤔😈
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I played a Huntress game the other night. Hooked an Adam on top of a hill with a generator at the base of it. Immediately after the hook, I walked down to Pop the generator. As I'm going to kick it, I hear the notification of an unhook, and I turn back to see the Adam and the Claudette (who had run behind me, evidently) who had just unhooked him scrambling down the hill past me. And with this suggestion, the penalty for one of the stupidest, unsafest unhooks you could possibly make -- I mean, I couldn't even get 2 feet away before they rescued (and my educated guess, by the way the team played during the match, was that it was a 3-person SWF and a solo, with the Claudette and Adam playing together, so no hook farming of a random in this case) -- the penalty for that nonsense should go to ME? By not being able to use my hatchets on even the Claudette (who definitely deserved one for that terrible play)?
How about no? As the killer, what would you have me do in that situation? Watch them both run happily away somewhere to heal and bake some cookies on the top of the generator and wait until they're ready to do something else that's bad survivor gameplay? (I play a ton of survivor as well, and unless there's NO other option, and unhook like that, especially against a ranged killer is just that -- terribly bad gameplay).
For the record, I smacked Claudette with a thrown hatchet and sent one Adam's way as well and downed him before he could get to safety. Then I chased the Claudette down, gave her a another hatchet for her trouble, and hooked her (their third teammate was picking the Adam up while I did this). Your suggestion robs me of all of that, and forces me as a slower moving killer to have to chase one or the other down on foot, rewarding them for making a terrible rescue that, if they'd given me a literal second to kick the gen and leave the area (I run BBQ and saw the random working further away and was headed there next), they could have gotten safely.
Again, how about a big "no" to an unnecessary change that penalizes smart play and rewards bad ones.
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The perk is fine and balanced. It provides a nice benefit to an M1 killer, but you have to manage it carefully -- too many hits on an Obsession, and all of your stacks go bye-bye and the perk does nothing. To keep stacks on certain killers, you need to be able to utilize their power effectively (Pig's Dash, Nemesis' tentacles, Demogorgon's shred, etc.) or else they won't get the benefit.
When people are asking for nerfs to perks with downsides that counter their benefits (and that goes for players from both sides who do this, survivor and killer), it makes you wonder exactly what perks they think SHOULD be in the game -- 170 different versions of Monstrous Shrine?
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567758#Comment_2567758
Damn, it's long time since I have seen survivors to do this. It's fun that Pig can join.
I wish they would buff her base-kit crouch a little... But add-on changes are nice tho.
BTW Have you tried Plaything on Pig? that's kinda fun
Usually my Boops come from the last survivor looking for mercy, which they'll get unless they've done something to not warrant it (That Feng who faked a Boop then dropped a pallet on my snout and teabagged me afterwards -- I'd be talking to you if I hadn't killed you later on, lol 🤣). I have had more than a couple who'll try from the beginning, and I'm a sucker for it, so if you're ever against me in a match, that's your ticket out (and probably your teammates, if they get the hint!).
I'm definitely looking forward to the add-on changes and seeing what they can do. I HAVE tried Hex: Plaything on her for a couple of matches, and I actually got value out of it. I have a match uploaded that goes up tonight on my YT (shameless plug, lol) where I used Plaything and I definitely think it caused a lot of chaos. I changed my build from a Ruin/Undying slowdown to Corrupt/Pop to implement it, but it worked well (and with boon totems becoming a thing, and terrible totem spawns still largely a thing, I've been slowly shifting over anyway). Plaything definitely has potential with Pig, more than other killers, due to the inherent issues survivors have if they're coming off of the hook Oblivious AND with potentially an active trap. 🤔
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567738#Comment_2567738
Yeah, I love to meet survivors that just wanna play for fun. If they make me laugh = free hatch.
That's why I love Pig, I wish there would be more killers with gimmick like boop the snoot.
Donate items, snitch on friends, pebble on me over pallet etc.
It's not really hard to make game fun, I sometimes try to do it as survivor, but not all killers "allow" you to do it. I always go boop the snoot as first thing against Pig :D Boop the snoot and donate item = easy hatch :D
I had once game as a pig where everyone I have met boop the snoot. So I couldn't kill anyone -> buff pig.
Boops to a fellow Pig fan! 😁 It sounds like we play a similar Pig (I'm ruthless when I need to be, but a Boop will set you free, lol).
It sounds like you should enjoy this clip then from a match I had.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azo1_GXJ7Zk&list=PLC2rL4BtEvpu37EzsT36X2SS3vL2Igksg&index=56&ab_channel=GeriatricGaming -
@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567656#Comment_2567656
Thing is for me it's not really about kills.
I had games with 0 kills that were actually fun, I had games with 4 kills that I was quite pissed about playing it.
Of course I also had lot of games with 0 kills that made me stop playing that killer for long time.
Multiple kills don't equal fun game.
You can't really balance around any amount of kills, when both sides have nuclear options and you don't know what are you playing against.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
I've had games where I played REALLY well, but I just ran up against survivors (SWF or solos) who were just as good or better. I've gotten 1K or even 0K, but I might have gotten 7-8 hooks and the game was a real nail-biter and as a result, fun. Those were more fun that a random 4K where I might wipe a team out at 5 gens. Conversely, I've had 4K's at 4-5 gens that were super-fun because of just how well I DID play against competent survivors, and I've had the 0K where gens popped at light speed and the game was lost literally the minute I loaded in, and those weren't fun at all And a Pig, I've memed around with survivors who Boop, and even though most of those games end up with everyone escaping, they've still been fun.
Fun in this game is largely what you make it. If you focus on only Kills or Escapes, you're probably going to end up frustrated more often than not, even when you're accomplishing your goal.
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Casual for me means that I'm playing to have fun, and whatever happens, happens. It doesn't mean that I'm not trying to win, though.
Casual is when I run a Slippery Meat/Up The Ante/Salty Lips Kobe build with my friends to see if we can make that goofy build work (spoilers: it has!) or running Blast Mine, just to keep calling out, "Kick the gen, kick the gen, kick the gen ... yes!" over and over again during a match (add in Red Herring for addition goofy synergy). Non-meta builds, trying new things on Killer that I wouldn't normally play (I've been trying a ton of Adept challenges lately, and the many I've gotten have been so satisfying, they've made up for the matches I was crushed in other tries by meta-perk survivors), and even embracing the memes when I play the Pig (you boop, you live -- no exceptions). I downed someone in a match near an open exit gate tonight that would have been the 3K in a Huntress match, but I let them crawl out when I could have easily killed them -- I thought they'd earned the escape and the extra kill just didn't mean anything in the big scheme of things (and it hopefully was appreciated by the survivor, who'd played very well throughout). All of those examples are casual play in my eyes, and all of it is about having fun first.
It doesn't mean I don't run sweaty builds on both sides quite often, and I end up with equally sweaty builds against me just as often in those instances. While those matches can still be fun (the 3-person SWF flashlight/sabo bully squad I 4K'ed as Freddy the other night, I probably needed a shower afterwards, but it was still fun, mainly since I came out on top, lol) - well, that's obviously me NOT being casual. But I think you can play both styles depending on your mood at the time, but you do need to expect that, the harder you go out in a match to win, the more likely you're going to face similar people with similar intents, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that challenge.
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@ElusivePukka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567491#Comment_2567491
So your MMR isn't particularly high overall, just on a main or two. Thing is, if your MMR on multiple killers was pretty high at the start, even killers you've never touched would also be pretty high - the (reported) max differential at the onset was around 200 points below out of wherever you main was compared to 1900.
A lot of us, thus, never got to have those easy practice games, and most of us are seeing MMR as a punishment for success: "Oh, you did well? Have some games where you're going to get thrashed." and are experiencing not so much a 'settling into where you should be' as a rubber band between extremes.
You don't know what my MMR ranking is. Neither do I. I do know that the majority of my killer rounds, prior to implementation, ended in 4K or 3K mercy hatch games. Not all -- because I'm not god-tier by any stretch, but I'm guessing I'm wasn't at some abysmally low SBMM ranking either since, as I said, prior to SBMM, I played a small handful of killers and did so very well. The games I played with the killers I didn't do well with numbered maybe a total of maybe 50 out of every 1000 -- I rarely played them for the reasons described above-- so they weren't exactly dragging whatever my rating was down. I'm well aware what has been reported regarding the differences between ratings for killers that are played and ones that aren't, but I also think that a hidden element that's affecting matches are a prioritization of quick lobby times over the matchmaking itself, something I did see in those matches I've described as aberrations (where I found myself playing someone I usually never play and did poorly with, like Trickster, but still ended up against ruthlessly efficient teams that blew through gens like their lives depended on it.
Whatever your experience is I won't question. I do know that I'm still seeing super-tough lobbies with my "mains", but I was seeing them before due to Rank, so any difference just isn't apparent. And I'm still not seeing how a change back to the old matchmaking -- which was often a fiasco in itself and didn't promote "casual" play either, is going to change anything. I'd rather see the devs work on improving what they've put into place than go back to an old system that people endlessly complained here about nearly daily.
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Was it really, though?
I play a ton of both killer and survivor, and I have usually been at Red Rank/Rank 1 while doing so. Prior to SBMM going into effect, almost every lobby I faced as killer was also filled with Red Rank survivors, most really good, many part of multiple-person SWF groups all (or most) running meta-perk builds (which is fine, since I'm not a hypocrite -- I would and will run them as well).
Since SBMM, while I'm still running into those survivors with the killers I play the best with, the killers I struggle playing, the ones I have only started learning how to play, and the ones I need to improve with, I've seen a definite difference between the caliber of who I end up matched against. I've actually gotten a chance to play killers like The Twins and Deathslinger -- ones I'd never have attempted to play against those Red Rank lobbies before (since prior attempts to learn them usually ended in 0-1 hook, 5 minute matches) -- and gotten to practice with them and learn how to use them without being stomped into submission by stupidly good opponents. I've had competitive matches with those killers I've wanted to learn, and I even managed to snag Adepts on a number of them (something I never would have been able to say prior to SBMM). Instead of playing just a couple of killers I know I could compete with, I've branched out and now play almost every killer on the roster, because the matchmaking -- at least for me -- has helped in doing so and feeling like most matches (not all -- there are still exceptions) I stand a chance, regardless of who I'm using.
The previous system, if you were a killer who did well and ranked up, was largely putting you into matches against tough competition anyway, regardless of what killer you played. While the current system could be improved and tweaked to take into account more than a kill/escape metric -- you'll get no argument there from me -- people who think the previous matchmaking was some utopia of fairness or "casual" play is looking though rose-colored glasses. The players who "sweat", for the lack of a better word, are going to do so with or without SBMM in place.
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As an aside, the Rank reset has also been great for getting Adepts I didn't have before. With it much easier to get Merciless at Ash 4, I've been able to attempt Adepts I wouldn't have tried at Rank 1 and actually have gotten ones I never thought I would. And with the inability to go down a Level/Grade/Rank once you reach a new one, there's no pressure to fail at the Adepts and worry about losing whatever Rank you're at, so any pressure to perform well in every match is gone -- you can experiment with things at some points and -- gasp -- actually have fun. That's a nice win-win as part of the new system.
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I've been Rank 1 as killer and survivor multiple times before the new system went into place, and I was when the last reset hit.
Who cares? Why would anyone I or anyone else? " I " know I have been a Rank 1, so isn't that all that matters? I also know that, even at Rank 1, there's still a huge disparity between skill of people who made that Rank -- I'd like to think I'm pretty decent at the video game, but I also know there are and were plenty of Rank 1's who would run circles around me still.
I got 500,000 BP for being Rank 1 at this last reset. I'm slowly moving back up as I've played since. If I make it back to Rank 1 -- great. If I don't -- again, where's the problem here? I'll still get BP I wouldn't have gotten before, and in theory my SBMM rating won't be changing so my matches and competition shouldn't be affected (that's a different discussion altogether, but let's go with that as being "Accurate" for now). If I have the "1" by my level or not should be irrelevant -- " I " know how good (or not) that I am, and no matter what number is sitting up there, that should be the only thing that matters.
If a person's only motivation to play the game is because of a somewhat meaningless number at the top corner of their screen -- not to have fun, not to improve, not to try new builds or strategies, not to interact with other people in a game, not to play with new characters, etc. -- then I'd argue they probably need a new game to play anyway,
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Ruin may be the "best" Hex perk for the obvious reasons, but Devour has even more potential to turn a game completely around and be the deciding factor.
The best thing working for it is that, if you're not running Ruin, so many survivors are focused only on gens and ignore totems in so many cases that by the time Devour activates at 3 stacks for your insta-downs, the snowball potential to end the game quickly comes so fast, there's often nothing your opponent can do about it. And even if they DO cleanse it, you may have already gotten enough hooks out of it (or more), that the game is still essentially over. Add in Undying to protect it a little longer, and Devour can be very nasty, especially in those rare occasions the totem is actually hidden properly.
I've played Devour and gotten it to 3 stacks (or even to 5) and been amazed it stayed up, as the totem was in the wide-open -- sometimes next to a generator that survivors had repaired! -- and it still lasted. Those games, where gens flew so fast I could barely keep up but everyone ended up falling to Devour in the end, were some of the most satisfying. 😁 It may not be the "best" Hex perk -- but it's definitely the most fun.
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I've been fine playing killer (and survivor) since the SBMM/MMR was introduced.
With the preface that I know that Rank/Grade means "nothing" (or it's supposed to not mean anything, though that's still up for debate since some of the inner workings of the system have been revealed), I was Rank 1 at both killer and survivor before and since the implementation. Before, I would run into a lot of tough squads with any killer I played -- learning new killers or practicing with ones I needed work with at Red Rank was a near impossibility. I did get occasional games where my lobbies were inexperienced, memesters, or lower ranked, but they weren't all that common. A lot of games at that level were sweaty on both sides (not necessarily bad -- people are naturally competitive, so that's to be expected by anyone who is playing to actually try to "win").
Since SBMM went into effect, the killers I'm very experienced with or have strong track records of success with -- I'm getting strong lobbies, but that's what I would expect, and frankly, they haven't been much different than what I saw prior to the change. Even so, I'll still see the occasional lobby that plays like they're not at that level -- I think that getting people into lobbies at a reasonable pace is still taking some precedence over the matchmaking itself during peak times (which is why, regardless of killer, I still get instantaneous lobbies during the evening/night hours due to the lack of killers/large numbers of survivors playing during those times).
The killers I've needed to practice with, hardly play, or are just learning, though? I've seen a definite difference in the opponents I face (as in, a drop in their experience or skill level). While I've occasionally had some head-scratchers here and there (again, I think due to the system prioritizing getting people into a match at some point over everything else), most of those games have seen me facing people who are good enough to be a somewhat competent challenge (due to my being experienced at basic killer mechanics overall) but not good enough to keep me from matches that I can learn, practice, and actually accomplish what I want to do in a match with someone new.
Since SBMM, I've gotten better at killers I never thought I'd be able to accomplish that with (Huntress being a prime example), I've snagged multiple Adepts (including killers I've just picked up playing, like the Twins, who the few times I played before SBMM I got curbstomped over and over -- now I've actually been able to practice with them and -- gasp -- had fun playing them), and overall my experience has been not perfect -- the system can definitely use some tweaks and changes to improve it -- but it's been more fun than I had before in the old system (when, to compete at Rank 1, I only played certain killers and specific builds if I felt I wanted to have a chance).
I know others have said their experiences differ. I'm not discounting or dismissing their opinions or experiences, just stating my own, so that's simply what it is -- one person's experience (and I play close to 40 hours+ a week, so I have a lot of time in the game). I do think that the people who say that EVERY single match is a sweatfest of SWF Death Squads or sweaty Nurse/Blight/Spirit every round that ends in a 4K are exaggerating the reality of the situation -- or they're living on a Bizarro World that I'm thankfully not getting a chance to be a part of, I guess. Again, take all that for what it is -- my experiences with it.
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@Ussu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561013#Comment_2561013
Interesting. Thanks for this explanation. That's helpful.
If my killer skill rank is rather low and I'm being matched with survivors near my skill level, does the skill checks play a role in that? I mean when the games matchmaking system determines my killer skill level and then attempts to match me with survivors of near same level, does succeeding or failing a majority of survivor skill checks make a difference in the systems assessment of survivor skill level?
And what about survivors who group up together? How does skill level work with their matching? I thought of that earlier cuz I have been noticing an occasional survivor that's no where near as successful as other survivors at avoiding me etc.
Also just for the record, the losing streak has ended tonight with this killer. So it seems the theory of individual killer skill levels affecting my matchmaking was right.
From the information that's both been gathered by outside sources and given out by the devs, skill check success rate has nothing to do with how a survivor's skill level is assessed. It's only being counted in escapes (and possibly time of match), if I'm correct.
It can be inferred, though, that survivors who are failing skill checks on a regular basis won't be escaping much at all, in which case, you would expect them to be matched with a killer who is at a similar level -- except I think it's safe to say that SBMM isn't working exactly as intended (or promised) right now. I would argue that it's still matching people up based on keeping lobby times down as a priority over a "fair" matchmaking system, at least based on my own experiences so far, but that's another discussion altogether, and that might be confirmation bias on my end at work.
As far as groups go? I don't have an answer for that. My guess is that it's taking the average of the group as a whole when matching up with a killer, but I haven't seen a confirmation of such.
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The Grade reset made a huge difference, and it again illustrates the problem with how Killer Adepts are handled. After the frustrations with a number of ones I'd previously attempted -- The Plague being the most aggravating (because of the penalty to the Malicious Emblem due to survivors cleansing, essentially penalizing you for playing the killer correctly) -- I actually got The Plague Adept today simply because it's easier to double-pip and get Merciless at the rank after things reset yesterday than it was at Rank 1 for me before. The match I got it in (a 4K), I actually got two Iridescent Emblems and two Gold Emblems and still pulled it off -- where I was doing better at Red Rank and coming up short. It makes no sense, but I'll take it regardless, lol.
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@Ussu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2560948#Comment_2560948
I appreciate your point on this.
If they're not gentapping though I should still get occasional skill check fails.( not including other noise notifications from my perks ) But in the match scenarios described I don't and all generators completely repair fairly quickly
Skill check fails are going to be dependent on your survivors' skill level, unless you're running something specific to cause them to have more difficult ones (Huntress Lullaby, Overcharge, Oppression, or if you're playing The Doctor).
Very new players will miss skill checks with some frequency, but players with any real time in the game won't. Very experienced survivors rarely if ever miss skill checks, even with the conditions I described above. I'm not a world-class survivor myself, and I almost never miss a skill check, unless I'm trying for a Great Skill Check (Overcharge or Oppression ones I'll sometimes miss if I'm not expecting it).
I'll run Huntress Lullaby on Doctor occasionally, and even when I get it to multiple tokens -- even all the way to five (and no warning) -- I'll still watch survivors at Red Rank hit skill checks consistently and not miss. Missed skill checks are more of the exception in my experience and not the rule.
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If someone wants to body block when I'm carrying someone to a hook, I welcome it. More often than not, they end up downed, and even if the person I'm carrying wiggles off, they've traded one person on a hook and one healthy person for a different person on a hook and an injured one. Even better if I'm running STBFL and get a free down and still get the initial hook. As someone said, if a bunch of survivors want to give up health states, take them happily.
Body blocking can be annoying, but it's a perfectly fine strategy for survivors to use. You have to just play around it.
The skill check thing ... errr .... if survivors want to tap gens over and over instead of holding down whatever their repair button is, I'll welcome that too. When old Ruin was around, that was a thing, but no one I know does that now. There's literally no reason to and no advantage gained by doing so in any situation. Whatever is causing you to games with everyone escaping, that's not it.
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I love playing against the Blight. If they're really, really good, I'm probably in trouble. If they're decent or pretty good, I can dodge and make them miss, and it feels very satisfying. I've been completely stomped as a solo or part of a SWF by really good Blights, and I've had really easy 4 person team escapes (or multiple person escapes) against Blights who weren't as good.
And I don't see them often at all, at least no more than a variety of other killers. People who claim they see him (or Spirit or Nurse) every match are exaggerating, even if they claim to be at a high SBMM.
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There is no such thing.
Put the "best" killers -- Nurse, Spirit, etc. -- into the hands of someone just learning the killer, or the game in general -- and they'll get stomped by even halfway decent survivors. Put the "weakest" killers -- Legion, Clown, etc. -- into the hands of someone who's been playing the game forever and is really, really good at what they do, and they'll still do well against all but the best SWF teams and survivors.
Agree with the above statement that nothing in the game is crutch. The strongest killers and survivor/killer perks still need a good player behind them to be effective.
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As someone who plays a lot of Pig, I gave Plaything a try last night (with Corrupt and Pop for slowdown -- I often use Ruin/Undying with her, but that off for obvious reasons with that build). Only one match, but I -- think? -- I got value out of Plaything? I ran into survivors by chance a lot more often than I did normally while moving to gens to pop and generally just traversing the map normally. I think I definitely got a couple of instances where I caught people in the open and dead zones more than I would have normally. I don't camp boxes or hooks, so this was just random "Wait -- the Pig's HERE?" moments I think I surprised the survivors with.
I wasn't running any add-ons to increase the pressure of it -- no TT/COG, no blindness add-ons, just a Syringe and the Medical File -- so I'm curious to try it with something spicier. I'm still not sure HOW much slowdown/disruption I got out of it, but the match went well enough (3K and a mercy hatch with multiple gens needing to be done) that I'd like to give it another whirl.
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I try to play 50/50, with enough solo survivor mixed in with my SWF games to get a feel for both.
I've definitely improved my play on both sides by doing so. Watching how someone loops me effectively has taught me how to do that same type of looping when I play survivor. Seeing what certain killers have done effectively against me or my teammates in a game has given me tips how to do the same things when I'm playing killer.
Plus, it doesn't just help me improve all-around, it also keeps things fresh. If I'm getting tired of playing one element of the game, I can switch to the other to freshen things up.
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I'd love to not run at least some gen slowdown perks when I play killer, but some combination of Ruin/Undying/Pop/Corrupt is almost mandatory unless you enjoy 5 minute matches.
I've been working on Adept killer achievements, and watching 3-4 gens fly almost instantly in most games, and seeing multiple Commodius toolboxes, BNP's, and Prove Thyself in so many lobbies drives home the point of how necessary gen regression of some kind is at higher levels. Even games where that isn't being brought in, seeing multiple gens getting worked on at the start of a match so often means games are flying by, no matter how quickly one gets into a chase and a down. Unless a team decides to throw, or meme, or are generally potatoes, no gen regression usually equals a problem if you want to stay competitive (unless you're a high-level Nurse, Spirit, or Blight -- of which, I am none).
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Any loss of a map in the game should be regrettable. More maps -- more variety -- better for the game itself.
I hated Hawkins when I first started playing the game (from both sides), but eventually once I learned it, I started enjoying it. It was a very good map for most killers I played, and as survivor, I started enjoying it as well. I have had a lot of good results from both roles there over the time it's been around.
I would hope that the devs will eventually use the framework in place for the map and rework it into something original for a killer currently lacking a map.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. That's what I guessed, but it's one of the things that I thought seemed so silly -- you're penalized for playing the killer effectively and correctly and the survivors playing poorly (by cleansing at the slightest drop of a hat) -- that I thought I had to be wrong, lol.
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@Sluzzy said:
I remember that. MoM was nerfed faster than any perk.
And MoM had a huge downside of showing your aura for the remainder of the match.
What is the downside to Undying? None
If I didn't already understand you by now, I'd be shaking my head, lol. But for those people who view this as a serious question, here's the actual serious answer.
The downside to Undying? It's a Hex that can be cleansed in literally the first 20 seconds of the match when it spawns in the wide open and a survivor spawns right next to it. Even running it with Ruin, there's always a good chance that half your perk loadout is gone under a minute into the match if you're running hexes, the spawns are so many more bad than good.
Or, in the case of "A picture is worth 1000 words", I simply give you this as Undying's downside.
