Is there any reason not to have special abilities disabled within x meters of hooked survivor?
This would stop:
- Hag’s strategy consistent of 10 traps around the hook.
- Bubba’s standing at the hook with their chainsaw.
- Plague standing at the hook with red vomit.
Killers would still be able to M1/grab, so I don’t think this would have much negative impact at all. It would make the game healthier for sure.
Comments
Would be preferable to standing still at the hook and ruining the game for four people who want to play normally.
There is a reason.
It would create a relative safe zone for survivors to exploit. The radius would need to be extremely small, at which point it would be a pointless mechanic especially against Trickster (the current king of camping) and other ranged killers.
Imagine playing bubba and survivors just run towards hook and your chainsaw just stops working :D That would be fun thing to abuse.
How is being able to be M1’d or grabbed safe? It just prevents it being a safe zone for the killer to ruin the match for everyone.
Not really abuse, camping killers are abusing the mechanics of the game right now to do it. This would make it a 50/50 and encourage killers to actually play the game.
Deflection, this has nothing to do with the argument.
What if that killer didn't camp, but survivors brought him there?
They do play a game, you just don't like how...
The game has boldness/altruism etc emblems for a reason, survivors are supposed to have a chance to get them all. If they aren’t, why have the emblem system?
If killers played normally instead of camping, maybe they’d learn how to make a comeback? You aren’t even going to get back standing at the hook, you may as well just give up a killer if you need to do this every match.
Survivors using loops doesn’t disrupt the gameplay and emblem system like camping does. Not sure what loops you’re referring to specifically, doesn’t help to make vague comments.
A good survivor will be able to avoid the M1. I'm not necessarily talking about a survivor going for an unhook here. A survivor could run the killer to a hooked survivor and exploit the fact that the killer can't use their power at all.
Many hooks have a loop nearby, some maps (such as Haddonfield) could become extremely oppressive depending on the killer if they can't use their power in certain areas because of a hooked survivor.
I agree that camping is annoying, I just don't think this is the solution to it.
I have made a lot of comebacks from one camping trip. So that's not really true. There is not many survivors that will just keep him there and work on gens.
Emblem system is not really good argument for balancing. Noone ever said it's good system.
You have Unbroken, which basically says that if someone died and you have it iri, then you are ######### teammate and you let him die. That emblem promotes selfish players.
In red ranks, when you have bad killer -> you depip.
You are forced to babysitting other side, if you want pips.
That system is just bad.
With SBMM you can play at least however you want.
The game also has insidious, which is a perk that literally encourages camping. Also, it's been years since camping made it impossible to get the unhook, so you can still get those emblems.
Also, hag putting traps around the hook isn't camping, learn to crouch.
Many killers only have M1 and they’re still fine. You don’t need to be omega camper to be a good killer.
I’m not a moron, I know you can crouch. But do you think you can crouch walk away if she’s in the area? Lol.
The reason is basically what's been gone over already- not every reason to be near the hook is camping, and if survivors know you're powerless near a hooked survivor, they'll exploit it. And rightly so- it'd be a safe zone where they're in considerably less danger, they'd be insane not to use that to their advantage.
So is spirit powerless the entire match since she only has M1? I’m still failing to see how any downside of changing it to my suggestion is worse than the current MMR exploitation strategy to camp for kills. Even with prove thyself, you can’t do all 5 gens before the killer has camped someone to death and with NOED they can guarantee two kills. This is why Bubba is so easy to rank high up with MMR, the system is broken.
...Spirit would be powerless if she couldn't use Haunting, which is why her only damage type being M1 doesn't matter. A better example would be a Trapper who's put down all his traps- which kinda shows why it'd be a problem to disable powers close to a hook, since yes, he very much is powerless.
If she's already in the area and sees you, then why are you worried about the traps?
Ok, you're playing huntress on midwich. You hook a survivor on the 2nd floor, and are chasing another on the first. Suddenly, you aren't able to throw a hatchet because you walked under the hooked survivor on the floor above you. Would that be fair?
I will say, a few years ago they tried making changes to how the hooks reacted when the killer was nearby, it was so badly exploited it wasn't even funny, survivors weren't even unhooking anymore, just hanging out next to the hook. I can't imagine it was fun for anyone, least of all the guy being used as a hanging safe zone all game. That was just due to them reducing hook progress when the killer was nearby. You actually do something to make the killer less powerful near the hooks and we get that back x5
By the time you unhook and crouch at a tiny speed, she can get back easily.
Midwich has a big gap between floors, easy to avoid.
But she can’t camp someone to death with zero counter, that’s the issue with Bubba.
Not if you want the zone big enough to stop basement camping on every map, including the vaulted ceiling basement in RPD
And I noticed you ignored the point about how a similar system was implemented and removed due to rampant abuse.
Okay?
That's not really relevant to the topic, which is disabling powers near a hook. There are reasons to be near the hook that aren't camping- someone's looping you there, or you've got a three-gen, or the map's just pretty small and you're close by even when you're doing something completely different. Why should the killer's power be disabled in those situations?
In those situations you can still attack, it’s a happy medium.
That's... not a medium. It's a straight downgrade for literally no reason, that makes the killer's game substantially harder when they aren't even doing the thing this was supposed to tackle.
1. She's not fast
2. Seriously, crouch in, pop the rescue, crouch out. If all 10 of her traps are just around the hook, then your teammates are having a real easy time handing the m1 baby hag you found, and you (the unhooker) should have no issue running over literally all of them while the injured survivor crouches off. Basic strategy.
More likely you'd find a hag who'll leave 2-3 traps, which don't take that long to crouch walk over/around and are easy to spot now that it's high noon on every map.
It’s literally a medium because it’s a compromise on both sides lol.
It would have the tiniest impact imaginable but make the game 10x more healthy, completely worth it, and I say this as a huntress player.
That's not a compromise.
What is the compromise the other side makes?
If I say "give me 5 ice cream bars" and you say no, demanding 3 isn't me making a compromise.
So if I'm chasing a survivor, and he runs to the hook, my m2 is disabled. You think that's a good thing that's healthy for the game?
How is it not? Both sides give up something.
Absolutely. It’s way more healthy than survivors being unable to get altruism or boldness points because a killer decides to stay at the hook.
Sincere, genuine question: What are survivors giving up in this situation?
Survivors aren't giving up anything in your suggestion. It's purely a nerf to killers.
And ultimately there's no reason a killer's power should ever be disabled. Killer powers are already balanced by charges, cooldowns, ammo, etc. Adding an extra condition that killers have to play around where their powers straight can't be used is not fair to them in anyway.
Why do you believe survivors should be guaranteed free unhooks no matter how they play? Also both of those points are gotten in other ways besides just unhooking. Sorry the game is getting in the way of you farming your teammates for points.
How is getting hit or grabbed free? Sounds like you just want games to be as toxic as possible.
It’s not fair that games are spoiled because killers want to stand still at hooks. 20 minutes wasted.
Survivors still have to risk being grabbed as an instadown, this is something that actually requires timing and an interesting dynamic.
Genuine question to you:
What do you think should be done? I’m encountering camping a lot more post MMR because it’s all about kills. Should a game mechanic be changed, a perk added, or MMR changed? What’s the solution to make the game more healthy.
For the record: That's not giving up anything, that is just a mechanic in DBD, the killers are the only ones giving anything up in this suggestion.
As for what to do, it's a really tricky and difficult situation to fix. As this thread's proven, at least partially, it's difficult to find a solution that doesn't make things much harder for the killer even when they're doing nothing "wrong". Rather than actively penalising the killer, I'd probably look towards making some version of Kindred basekit so solo-q players can know facecamping is happening sooner, and from there... it's tough. Maybe some extra bloodpoints for camped survivors so they at least get something, that's one thing I'd wholeheartedly support.
It's not an easy thing to fix, and I doubt a bunch of randoms on a forum are going to stumble across the right system.
I advocate for this as well, as it's the most simple fix for camping. But you'll be hard pressed to find reasonable people who agree on these forums.
It doesn't fix it at all though. Yeah, Bubba wouldn't be able to chainsaw camp but most camping killers do it with their M1 anyway.
A coordinated team can work around M1s. One hit down killers, Hag, and Pyramid Head are a totally different story.
So if we're honest, it would be a buff to SWF, a nerf to killers overall and barely a difference to solo Q.
I played a Huntress game the other night. Hooked an Adam on top of a hill with a generator at the base of it. Immediately after the hook, I walked down to Pop the generator. As I'm going to kick it, I hear the notification of an unhook, and I turn back to see the Adam and the Claudette (who had run behind me, evidently) who had just unhooked him scrambling down the hill past me. And with this suggestion, the penalty for one of the stupidest, unsafest unhooks you could possibly make -- I mean, I couldn't even get 2 feet away before they rescued (and my educated guess, by the way the team played during the match, was that it was a 3-person SWF and a solo, with the Claudette and Adam playing together, so no hook farming of a random in this case) -- the penalty for that nonsense should go to ME? By not being able to use my hatchets on even the Claudette (who definitely deserved one for that terrible play)?
How about no? As the killer, what would you have me do in that situation? Watch them both run happily away somewhere to heal and bake some cookies on the top of the generator and wait until they're ready to do something else that's bad survivor gameplay? (I play a ton of survivor as well, and unless there's NO other option, and unhook like that, especially against a ranged killer is just that -- terribly bad gameplay).
For the record, I smacked Claudette with a thrown hatchet and sent one Adam's way as well and downed him before he could get to safety. Then I chased the Claudette down, gave her a another hatchet for her trouble, and hooked her (their third teammate was picking the Adam up while I did this). Your suggestion robs me of all of that, and forces me as a slower moving killer to have to chase one or the other down on foot, rewarding them for making a terrible rescue that, if they'd given me a literal second to kick the gen and leave the area (I run BBQ and saw the random working further away and was headed there next), they could have gotten safely.
Again, how about a big "no" to an unnecessary change that penalizes smart play and rewards bad ones.
Who are you joking? This would be incredible help for solo queue players as well. Coordination does not require SWF, believe it or not.
Why not just remove hooks entirely and give every killer PH's cage if you feel killer defending the hook is so bad for the game?
This is pretty vague "disable killer powers near hooks"
- how big or small is the radius which they can't use powers? I mean some killers can't set powers too close to hooks anyways (like ph's trails).
- when does it activate? When a killer enters the radius isntantly? If their within it too long? Killers camp endgame too because what else is there to do?
- so if I a killer were to be running to a hooked surv who is about to be unhooked I couldn't tentacle whip even though I was wasn't camping? Am I suppose to have to move closer for an m1 instead of punishing them for a unsafe unhook?
- grabs are fairly inconsistent. Survs get I frames in unhooks. Are you sure your not just too afraid to get injured while going for a rescue? What if you the surv are proxying the hook? Should I not get to punish with a ranged power?
Im interested to see how this actually is serious 🤔
I'm not the one advocating a system to provide zones for survivors to run to that disable killer attacks, so no, I don't really want toxicity.
We know this would be abused, because every similar mechanic implemented has been abused. A point which you still have yet to respond to. Also that this wouldn't just change camping killers, it literally provides a zone where half of a killer's kit wouldn't work just because he dared hook a survivor, literally his entire job in the match.
I'm sure it will feel great for solo q players to watch their teammates play ring around the hook while they wait in vain to be rescued, because those teammates decided a keeping a safe zone up was better than helping some random.
Only if all generators became blocked while a survivor is hooked.