ignaeon
ignaeon
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Because survivor has control of the game, and non nurse killers must wait for survivors to make mistakes before they are allowed to succeed. Perks and abilities don't really factor into this.
The tradeoff is that killer can punish survivor mistakes fairly well, but that doesn't matter if survivors don't make too many mistakes and use anti tunnel tactics (which is optimal). The deathslinger nerf and the difference between totems and boons shows that the modern balance philosophy of DBD is to limit killer control of the game.
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I'm shocked QA didn't catch this. It wouldn't have been too hard to test if killer can reach all the totem spawns before release, and many of these were reported in the ptb.
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@Karma_Susui said:
Or maybe you just learn that it's only a game and there is no point in getting mad?
What's fun about playing killer other than the suffering of others?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592453#Comment_2592453
Because they don't realistically have the ability to avoid damage after the shot lands? If there's something between the survivor and the killer, sure, but any good Deathslinger either isn't gonna go for those shots or will go for them with the intent of having the chain break for strategic reasons.
Slinger is very good in the 1v1 because of this- his ability is hard to dodge even when you have the actual ability to do so, and it's basically a guaranteed hit unless the Slinger's being greedy or you get lucky with terrain. Which, like, it should be, that's perfectly reasonable- he got the shot, he should have a solid chance of getting the hit too.
If they don't have the ability then what the ######### is the point of the reeling mechanic? Yes, he can back up and remove interactivity, do why did the nerf ignore that unfavorable of making him clunky as #########
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592394#Comment_2592394
Because the quickscope was the thing that needed changing; as I've said before, the fact that he feels clunky is the core problem here, not the fact that the quickscope was removed.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592418#Comment_2592418
Swinging and missing against healthy survivors injures them but does not inflict Deep Wound, I looked it up specifically just to make sure.
Anyway: Nerfing his ADS like this wasn't the right call, I agree- they should've made it so your gun raises faster but you still can't shoot until it's fully up, since that was the core problem. Maybe the chain needs looking at too, but the core issue is that you could not feasibly dodge the Deathslinger before if he quickscoped you, and even if he just ADS faked he could immediately swing out of cancelling it and that also put you in a lose/lose scenario. Both of those things needed fixing, and both of those things were addressed- the sole problem with that suite of changes is that it also now feels way too slow and clunky to raise your gun all the way.
Side note: There was never any reason to run Deathslinger over Huntress over personal preference, the same way there's no reason to run Huntress over Nurse, or Ghost Face over Nemesis. They don't play similarly beyond the fact that they're both technically ranged- and even then Slinger is significantly less ranged than Huntress. What is it about Huntress that draws people to make weird comparisons? They do it with Trickster too, it's bizarre.
Lastly: Yeah... I kinda agree with the dev's explanation regarding his terror radius, but I really think that they should've given him a lullaby radius instead, or maybe a midpoint terror radius so it's larger but not normal size...? I dunno, the TR increase really seems like it might be hurting him unduly, I'd support that being changed.
You're missing the point. Why should a difficult to aim ability which you are heavily punished for missing with give survivors a chance to react and avoid the damage both before and after the shot lands.
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No forgiveness after what they did to deathslinger.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592372#Comment_2592372
Sure, they can, but that's only realistic if there's some object between them and the Killer. Slinger has more than enough time to reel someone in without something else breaking the chain for the survivor, base wiggle time just isn't enough.
He does. So why wasn't that changed instead of "adding counter play" by making him clunky?
If they changed the way backing up with him worked, increased the reeling speed, but made the chain break more easily it would have sucked but it would be better than this.
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It's almost like killer is so awful to play less than a fifth of the playerbase wants to do it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592320#Comment_2592320
...Yes it does? Hitting a healthy survivor injures them, that's damage on hit.
Regardless: While obviously survivors shouldn't be gifted protection when they're out of position or playing poorly, they should always have the ability to avoid the killer's power, and the fact of the matter is that you do not have an ability to avoid the killer's power when it's a quickscope that comes out faster than you can react to. All you can do is hope the Slinger misses.
That part of the change was obviously fine. The problem now is that he feels way too clunky to play, which imo would be fixed with a simple buff to the ADS speed. Raise the gun faster, but still can't shoot until it's up, and he'll be in an ideal spot. (Save for the TR increase, which I'm still on the fence about.)
An injured survivor can break the chain with only mending as a downside.
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@Chordyceps said:
He's still pretty powerful, you just have to be a bit more strategic now, use LoS blockers to your advantage and aim a little in advance.
If we cared about power we would have played nurse, the objectively strongest killer in the game.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2590686#Comment_2590686
But the whole point of the quickscope is that you can't realistically dodge it except for hoping that the Slinger misses. You can dodge when he actually aims, but if he quickscopes you don't have enough time to react. That's the entire reason he was changed to begin with, combined with the fake-into-hit problem.
Slinger's problem right now is that he feels clunky, and I'd suggest just making him raise his gun a touch faster so it doesn't feel as clunky without being as fast as the quickscope was before.
Why do survivors need to be able to react to the shot of a ######### gun? It doesn't deal damage on hit, isn't counterplay the whole point of the chain?
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
I have been thinking about this... So they keep pushing the line on what can or can't be in DBD. I think Nemesis pushed it the furthest so far since he is from a full on action game. I personally just want them to start going all out now. Like go beyond just horror characters. Go for a lot of things as long as it fits the killer and survivor style. Like do stuff from I don't know superhero licenses or do more action licenses that can fit in DBD! Like maybe Scarecrow or something from DC. Killer Croc. What do you guys want? Do you guys want them to stick closer to horror or go all put like I want as long as it fits?
Postal dude skin for plague, but with a censor instead of a censer.
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@JohnWeak said:
Dear fellow friends, we all know that the game balance is terrible at the moment and that's impossible to win a trial properly without camping and tunneling at high MMR.
But i want to tell you that we are also responsible of this situation 😐️. Indeed, using cheap mechanics as camping and tunneling just to get our wins (3k+) or to secure a draw (2k) is a terrible idea as statistics are artificially tweaked to 2k average doing so.
So here is what we HAVE TO do :
- Start a trial keeping in mind that you cannot win against survivors at your real MMR level
- Never camp nor tunnel
- Do not use NOED
- Play fair no matter what and try to get as many hooks as possible
- If you have the choice between a fresh survivor or a survivor that has already been hooked, go for the fresh one
- Accept to loose 80%+ of your trials
This will result in terrible stats and show how unbalanced the game is. If the average kills is between 0,8 and 1,2, BHVR will see how terrible is the killer's experience and that they have to fix the balance.
ATM, we, the killer community, are comforting the devs in their idea that the game is pretty balanced as it is (50% kill rate).
If we continue to camp and tunnel to get our usual 2k+, we will have to stick with this garbage game design for years as the developers will never hear our voice.
If as a killer you want BETTER and FUNNIER trials, start to loose most of them and play as the game should be played : patrolling gens and chasing survivors.
DO NOT CAMP, DO NOT TUNNEL.
Uh huh.
When the next page of the event rift arrives I'm playing facecamping Bubba as much as possible, explicitly because of this post.
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@mdok16 said:
I feel like Dead By Daylight needs to release a killer that in every aspect, is actually scary. To most players, the majority of the killers we have now are great yes, but not exactly scary. I wish to see an original killer of their design that actually scares people. Yes, killers like Blight and Hillbilly with deformities are disturbing, but I want to see a killer that makes me, and everyone else scared. Dead by Daylight needs a spark like this to reignite the horror theme within the game, rather than just teabagging at pallets and running around carelessly because you know the killer is a Legion (as he has low lethality). Basically, I want a killer that falls into the uncanny valley, whether it be its appearance, the way it moves, its power...idk...leave your thoughts. (I also repeated myself a bit a few times, ignore that lol)
Are you lost? This is an action adventure rpg, and killers at boss fights that need to have a tell before every attack
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@thelemonwolf said:
I totally get not wanting to have the majority of the game leave because of having a key. No one enjoys a good game suddenly turning into 3 of 4 survivors escaping out the hatch. That being said though why is it just 1 survivor now and the hatch doesn't even spawn in unless its only the 1 survivor. For example, my last game we got destroyed, just hook after hook, killer was really good and downed us all pretty fast. So fast that between constant gen pressure, fast chases, and ruin we only got 1 gen done. As one of us is dead and the other 3 of us are death hook I just realized this new change sucks. Our options are either do 4 gens or just have 2 of us die and hope that maybe the last one will magically find the hatch faster than a blight can. Whats the point in doing gens after a certain point if its literally all or nothing. Doing no gens is the same as doing 4 gens now. 2 people at least should still be able to escape, finding or bringing a key was an equalizer most of the time, not overpowered like so many killer mains try to say. This alternative means if you cant get the gens far enough you're either hiding until everyone else dies or giving yourself up to gamble they'll find hatch.
I'd be fine with reverting hatch nerf if moris could be used sooner based on how many gens had been completed.
Either both sides should have a comeback mechanic, or neither should.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2590009#Comment_2590009
Correction: no killer can stop a pair of full health survivors from unhooking. The most they can do is to down the unhooker, but the unhooked survivor will be free.
Nah, Bubba doesn't care about borrowed time. The timing is tight but there isn't anything I can think of to stop a lightborn Bubba from facecamping
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Most killers cannot stop a pair of full health survivors from unhooking. Yes, one of you may get caught, but the others may get away. Hook duty can be rotated like this to finish gens before anyone dies. Make sure to run unbreakable in case you're slugged, and ds in case you're tunneled.
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Trapper is canonically the heir to a financial empire, which he willingly threw away to seek a life of enjoying his hobbies. He's also arguably the physically strongest member of the cast as well.
Trapper is the true answer to this question, survivors need not apply.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2589828#Comment_2589828
May I recommend nurse. It might technically not be a ranged killer but your almost as fast as slinger and when you think about it your the bullet. Also you get to bypass obnoxious map issues like breakable walls and multiple story buildings. That would be my advice to the Deathslinger players in general. Pick up nurse play something that rewards you for time invested. We gave feedback behavior didn't listen time to move on. Most content creators or survivors will not be happy with slinger until he stays in an overnerfed state. Blight add on's will likely be next. A key advantage to consider is nurse doesn't have enough players playing her to provoke a nerf blight does. Already the blighted crow, alchemist ring add ons op has started. Behavior doesn't do half measure so expect some nasty addition be made to blight.
Blight's going to get a delay on power activation. All killers must be clunky.
Nurse is a decent choice given the similar high risk design philosophy, and unlike slinger there actually is no counterplay to a skilled nurse.
Demo's lunge is basically a better version of the Redeemer outside of windows and certain low wall loops
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@latinfla4 said:
Seeing trappers much needed buff helps out so much to play him.
I think deathslinger should have one of his reload addons as base after his nerfing.
Any other suggestions?
Any "must have" add-ons, like CDR for Ghostface or range for ph.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2589634#Comment_2589634
Sure. I can do that for you. You can even go check my VOD. I did just fine with him and I don't believe got less then 2 kills. But I can cherry pick some monka shots for you. If you like.
Post link
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@TheDuhJ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2589665#Comment_2589665
"According to the wiki" If you need the wiki to tell you then you know its a problem. He doesn't have a lullaby either like the other two. But Trickster doesn't damage on hit either. If Deathslinger lands a good mind games shot at a tall wall structure, he basically always gets a hit. Trickster has to make at least 3 mind games and hit 2 shots per mind game to = a health state. Deathslinger and huntress only have to do it once and they get a hit (except with dead hard and very rare instances where Death slinger just cant reel the survivor in close enough.
I need the wiki to tell because I have never faced a deathslinger only played as him
I admit to forgetting about his lack of a lullaby, he is the only ranged killer worth using undetectable on.
Trickster effectively does 1/6th of a health state per hit. The only way for a survivor to make you lose progress on this is to escape you.
Mind games are in favor of survivors, given they can look and move in different directions, most walls at which mind gaming is an option there's a window, and in addition to left and right the Alway's have the option to just w away. An option particularly effective against slinger in particular.
Trickster doesn't care as much since you can afford to miss, meaning just throwing knives on the way to a loop is a decent idea. Slinger needs to commit to his shot, which is why it's used as an anti loop tool so much.
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@TheDuhJ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/290021/so-deathslinger-is-unplayable-now
Well tall walls are just harder now, almost like they are with the other ranged killers. Lets be real, Trickster and huntress both have noises that are made before they use their power warning the survivor that ranged attack is incoming. In huntresses case there is a noise notification that she is putting her weapon away. There is no kind of notification that deathslinger is about to shoot and because of that survivors have to look behind them to make a realistic dodge. I can't tell you how often this results in survivors running face first into random rocks, trees and other obstacles playing this killer. I know his range is finite unlike huntress or trickster, and he gets a blade wipe animation no matter what he does, but he doesn't have to reload at lockers which can be surprisingly scarce on some maps.
According to the wiki there's a sound survivors hear when in the deathslinger's sights, and the louder it is the closer to the center they are. Just run away from the ringing.
In addition, unlike other ranged killers he doesn't damage you on hit from the ranged attack, only after pulling you in. This is a moot point since backing up all but removes survivor control but it's weird this isn't where the nerf went.
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@Kaitin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2589590#Comment_2589590
So you just like his fancy hat. Understandable.
In fairness, it is the fanciest hat in dbd. Shame the character it's attached to feels so awful to play.
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@SonicOffline said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2589611#Comment_2589611
The actual kit is different. He has unlimited ammo and can still move while reloading, he has a wider swing on the M1, he has different concepts behind the add ons and how they synergize with his kit, and his mentality is more relentless holding W than Huntress who can afford to mix it up a bit.
it's just different play styles. It's like comparing Wraith to Legion.
Slinger loses a huge amount of ground after one shot, moves at a snails pace while reloading, I'm pretty sure all m1 attacks are the same so I'd like to see your source, his Addo s don't stop him from feeling like ######### and survivors can predrop pallets to end your "relentless" pressure. Also holding w on an actual melee killer like pyramid head is far more effective than it is on slinger.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2589575#Comment_2589575
Predict their move and what they're going to be doing...So you can get your shot ?
How is it I've no problem hitting shots. Yet threads like this pop up saying how terrible it is now ?
Post some clips, I don't believe you play slinger.
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@Dumpstick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/290021/so-deathslinger-is-unplayable-now
I don't have Deathslinger, so I have no idea how the change screwed his gameplay. But since the nerf he hasn't been the terror he used to be. All the good ones probably quit and went back to Huntress, and now only shrubs are playing him, because it's been pretty easy versing him for the past few days compared to the last patch.
I personally switched to plague, but trickster is currently stronger than slinger ever was. He's barely penalized for missing, gets full fov and sensitivity, gets a longer effective range (due to not worrying about obstacles and chain) survivors don't get a warning sound when they're in your sights, and you get free hits on pallet drops.
The only thing old slinger had on trickster is snap shots as you turned a corner (which was nerfed) and being a gunslinger instead of a Kpop twink (which is now the only reason to play deathslinger)
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2589509#Comment_2589509
Try predicting better
Predict what? Survivors hear a sound while being aimed at, they just need to run away from the sound.
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@TheycallmeLix said:
My friend told me yesterday that most of his games, the Killer just facecamped/tunneled the first person that got unhooked at 5 gens. He then told me it was happening during all his game that night. It was also happening to me the whole weekend when playing. The Killer just seems to really want a 4k every game, so he basically tunnels someone at 5 gen. It’s not fun and it becames boring to play if it happens every game. My friend already told he wasn’t going to play anymore if BHVR doesn’t do anything about it and it’s sad that it still happening every time. Is it also happening to you as well when playing Survivor? BHVR, please do something about it!
If 2 hooks is a win tunneling is optimal gameplay.
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Slinger was balanced in a similar vein as nurse before: a difficult to use ability that punishes you for missing. However, unlike nurse there's counterplay to slinger, walls and pallets and whatnot.
Now you lose a second for even trying to use your power. Slinger was bad before, he's terrible now.
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@Sluzzy said:
Boon totems ruined because killers are afraid of a coordinated 4 man SWF. Decisive Strike, Keys, and Object of Obsession was ruined for this reason too. What is next, Flashlights nerfed next? Flashbangs are already too difficult to use. I can count on one hand how many times I've seen someone saved because of flashbang. Killers have too much counterplay with it. A meme perk, not a useful perk.
What happens when survivors are nerfed and deprived of good things? 98% of the survivors suffer greatly.
Why are so much expected from a survivor team and only mediocre killers can put on 4 specific perks and win a huge majority of their matches?
Can a dev or someone answer this question? Why is BBQ, Tinkerer and Ruin not nerfed for good killers? They are broken when the killer knows what they are doing.
This goes for maps too. A large majority of survivors go down instantly, while the killer wins easily. Too much is expected from the “four” while asking little from the “one”.
If we are going to always keep survivor perks weak and uninspiring because of some really good SWF, then the same standards should be held of killers.
It's the other side of DBD's design issue: Killers have no control over the game against a good survivor who makes no mistakes, but if a survivor makes a mistake against a good killer the punishment can be severe.
If it were more evenly balanced instead of relying on active and re-active roles, maybe survivors could make some mistakes.
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The DS nerf was more about it being used as a shield to safely do gens, heal, etc, which wasn't its purpose. It still works fine as an anti tunneling tool, and is still a meta build.
the deathslinger nerf would be more like if they nerfed some low tier perk
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568651#Comment_2568651
A quickscope is 0.15 seconds before you can shoot, at which point the projectile hits you within 0.05 seconds. The fastest possible human reaction is 0.15 seconds, and that is reacting to an instant, not to something repeating.
So yes, humanly impossible to counter.
And no, survivors dont have coinflips, coinflips are moments where your input doesnt matter. A 50/50 isnt neccesarily. And yes, a survivor SHOULD be able to juke anything that directly leads to a health state. Just as a killer SHOULD be able to injure at any given oppertunity they can injure. Which is why killers can still hit a survivor even if they started dropping the pallet. Heck, survivors are even able to juke an m1. It's called spinning. Works less and less the better the killer is, but even m1's are jukable.
If you cannot juke something, your input doesnt matter and there is no interaction. If there is no interaction, it's objectively a boring mechanic. If it's a boring mechanic, it needs changes to be more enjoyable.
The projectile does not leave the redeemer for .5 seconds after the slinger fires, so you're already wrong. after that, the projectile moves at a speed of 40 m/s, so to get hit in .05 seconds you would need to be standing 2 meters away. I can't find the exact numbers for a killer lunge, but the assuming it lasts a full second it reaches over 6 meters, meaning the only reason for a slinger to shoot you in that range would be if you're camping an unsafe pallet against slinger, which is the opposite of what you should do. average range I aim for is about 10 meters, so that's about .25 seconds, bringing us to a total of .75 seconds to react. Source: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Caleb_Quinn#Weapon:_Death_to_Bayshore
Don't spout numbers if you're not actually looking them up, it works against your argument.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568556#Comment_2568556
His argument was that Billy didnt need changes, yet, he did. From a gameplay perspective, infinite zoning for free is an issue. That alone warrented the overheat mechanic. They overdid it, sure, but that doesnt make it a bad mechanic. As for the addons, yeah, they were far too careful. But to be fair, they literally have tons of data where Billy literally never used addons, just perks and consistently won games.
No, I dont find him annoying, he is objectively a badly designed killer. Being weak in everything does not validate coinflip mechanics. As for stealth, well, not really. If you look at his addons, his stealth should only have been a factor when he uses ADS. Yet, who used ADS for stealth? No one. So his stealth got nerfed, and his ADS stealth got buffed. As for net negatives, they didnt know how much their ADS changes would benefit him. It could easily have benefitted him more than enough to make his chases shorter on average. If that was the case, you literally cannot make him a 115% killer, because it would make him faster AND make his chases shorter. So yes, the devs are being careful. It wasnt known to be a net negative untill practice has shown it. Changing theoretical numbers and predicting practical results is very hard to do. Remember people getting mad at Spirit losing collission with survivors while she was phasing? People claimed it would destroy her, it didnt. And that is quite a massive change. While making a tiny adjustment to Trappers trap reset(where it would stay in the place it was placed at, rather than snapping to where the survivor was caught), was such a tiny change, but had a massive impact. It is very easy for 1 tiny change to have a bigger impact than you might expect.
Yes, he did. Getting a penalty from missing an instadown, is punishing an instadown, not zoning. As for A and B: survivors dont know. The animation for 0.1% charge and 99% charge is EXACTLY THE SAME. That's free zoning. And no, I am not copying Scott. Free zoning is literally being able to push a survivor into a zone purely because of a threat without having any real penalty for doing so. Billy did not have a penalty on his revving while he still had free movement. Bubba didnt have free zoning, because his animation gave away his revving. You can still as a billy rev in front of a locker and go into a locker grab, without survivors knowing if you're at 99 or 0%. If you're at 99 and they jump out, its an instadown, if you're close to 0 and they dont jump out, it's an instadown, Bubba doesnt have this, as his chainsaw lowers before he can grab. So yes, a double penalty makes sense. The overheat mechanic is still too severe, and should lower faster outside of chases(same rate when overheating, which is 6.6 charges per second or so, while normal reduction is 3.5), while lowering slower during chase unless you overheated. Because if you overheat a chainsaw in a single chase, you've been using it to zone too much. The biggest issue with Overheat, is that it applies outside of chase equally as inside of chase.
And yes, survivor perks are objectively weaker than killer perks. 90% of survivor strength comes from items and map resources. Perks only sprinkle a relatively tiny bit on top of that. And most killer perks get ignored for the same reason most survivor perks get ignored. A lot of killer perks that you'd call niche, are actually really good. Just as the survivor perks that survivors call niche are really good. They are simply overshadowed by the same 6 perks. Heck, to drive this even further home, there are survivor perks that should be basekit for solo survivor, there are barely any perks that should be basekit for killers. The only perks I can think of that I would want to be basekit for killers are Fire Up(faster actions overall the more gens are done, it makes the endgame feel more like an endgame), Monstrous Shrine(its a bad perk, but it would be really nice if it's basekit) and a weaker version of Dying Light that applies similar to Thanatophobia, where each hook adds 1.5% slowdown(again, basekit) to healing and generators, but that slowdown is lost when that survivor is killed, encouraging killers to leave people who are dead on hook alive rather than killing them as quickly as possible. That's only 2 and a half perks that should be basekit.
Survivor perks that are so bland that they should be basekit for solo survivors, since it offers pretty much the same information as a 4 man swf:
Kindred, Bond, Buckle Up, Deja Vu, Empathy, Kindred, Left Behind(especially now), Rookie Spirit and Situational Awareness(better known as Better Together).
That's 9 perks that need to be basekit for solo survivor alone to compare with the information of a 4-man SWF. That's not even talking about perks that should be (partially) basekit like Flip Flop(if you slug a survivor on the floor long enough that they can fully recover, that should affect the wiggle speed at the very least, you could even make it 25% basekit with Flip Flop being changed accordingly), Wake Up(if you're the last survivor alive) and maybe even a rudimentary decisive strike(one that only activates if you are chased within 15 seconds after an unhook, purely to punish tunnelers) so that the actual DS can be used to prolong that timer instead.
So in total, we have 12 perks that can be argued to be (somewhat) basekit, when there are only 3 killer perks at best that should be basekit, because otherwise there are too many other perks that it could stack with.
The fact that we can have 9 perks alone that need to be basekit to equalize solo survivor to SWF, when there are barely any killer perks that can be basekit without breaking the game, pretty much shows that survivor perks as a whole are weaker. Are there strong survivor perks that are at the level of some killer perks? Sure, definitely, but even if you have 4 survivors running the 4 best perks, I can point at killer perks that are objectively stronger than those perks combined. The bigger issue that killers have, is map mobility and design. That is the biggest reason why killers and their perks feel weaker than they actually are.
And no, the reason for high kill rates wasnt bad survivors, plenty of amazing survivors that still died. The bigger reason was solo survivor. If survivors all had access to a ping system, the kill rate would easily drop to below 50%. And as for average killrates, well, Trickster has been altered quite a lot, and Nurse is heavily skillbased. So its quite obvious why those 2 killers are under 50%. And let alone that most killers do not actually run Ruin Undying anymore either.
You keep saying survivors shouldn't have to deal with coin flips, but don't address that killer gameplay against a competent survivor is nothing but trying to react to coin flips.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/287365/the-reason-the-game-is-unbalance
By far the biggest reason, is map design. Loops either chain too easily, making it very hard for killers to gain distance in a relatively short time, causing chases to last up to 100 seconds before you down the first survivor, at which point 3 gens are gone and at least 1 person is working on the 4th generator, if you didnt down that survivor, teammates are coming to tank a hit. Which wouldnt have happened, if the killer actually had a chance of downing that survivor in an average time of 50 seconds.
The 1v4 is quite balanced, the 1v1 is not. In fact, the 1v1 in most killers case is stronger than it should be, but it has to be, because maps are not balanced, making the 1v1 feel weak. And because the 1v1 feels weak, rather than maps being too strong, the 1v4 feels too strong. Even the strongest anti-loop killers have issues keeping up since survivors can keep chaining loops.
Shelter Woods is kinda the one map that people point to on killers having too strong of a 1v1, because that is a map that SHOULD be almost perfectly balanced since loops arent easy to chain, but it's quite killer sided in general, because the killer 1v1 is a bit too strong.
It's not a map balance issue when it affects the majority of maps, it's a game issue.
A survivor who loops/disengages perfectly won't be caught by the killer until they reach a high bloodlust, and even then it's likely they can still last a loop or two. The reason survivors don't see it this way is because of how severely even the slightest mistake is punished by a good killer.
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@ElusivePukka said:
Pins/Pyramids on heads have been the most balanced killers to be released, as far as I'm concerned. Solid powers, interesting and unique counterplay, and dynamic changes to gameplay cycles.
PH is a clunky mess better off playing as an m1 killer outside of certain placements of walls and pallets, at least when using mouse.
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@BlueMeansDeep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568402#Comment_2568402
So you’re saying an extremely niche situation is enough to trump all the killers standing still with an instadown? Don’t think so. I’m a huntress main on the killer side and would do just fine with the change.
As killers we need to stop only thinking of ourselves.
As a person you need to stop deciding how your peers should play.
Camping will be optimal for as long as 2 hooks is considered a win.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568505#Comment_2568505
I will completely disagree. The EGC does exactly what it's intended to - which is end the game. It's not intended to favour either side which is why the killer can also open the gate. It's intended so that the game will end and prevent one side from taking the game hostage - and that's exactly what it does.
"Egc fills it's purpose because the killer can do the survivor's job for them" is just a great example of your design philosophy.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568309#Comment_2568309
"And that justifies severely nerfing the things that made him more appealing to play as than Huntress? Answer is no."
Yes, yes it does. Coinflip mechanics are never fun to face, especially not those ones that can be used every 0.15 seconds. Because the killer could fake it 5 times to see your reactions everytime so you become predictable on the 6th time, where as a survivor, you literally do not have time to react. The average human reaction speed is 0.25 seconds, the fastest possible human reaction is exactly 0.15 seconds, meaning that if you press dead hard the moment you notice the aim, you could dodge a quick shot.
Deathslinger was literally humanly impossible to counter.
As for the reeling mechanic, that is by far one of the worst attributes he has, giving that counterplay means survivors are more free to strave to left and right, meaning you cannot reel someone into a window anymore, since the chain is under constant stress. Or if you'd give counterplay to letting go of the chain where the survivor could react instantly, survivors would never use dead hard untill the moment they are freed.
And from what I have experienced and noticed, he's fine. You cant really go off short term deductions when the core gameplay went from quickscoping to being able to shoot around corners more consistently(as you're able to start aiming before turning the corner, turning overall faster). If you literally played him the way he is played now, he's gonna suck. But that is like playing Freddy the way he was played before, where you dont have snares, pallets or teleports. He would absolutely suck if you played him like he used to be played. So I literally wouldnt listen to deathslinger mains who relied heavily on quickscoping and m&a to down survivors, because that is exactly the kind of deathslinger that has been nerfed. I would listen to deathslinger mains who have more variety in their playstyle. And for those players, deathslinger has been overall better. Not that he is made stronger, he's objectively weaker, but his weaker intended playstyles have recieved some neccesary love.
I do have to clarify that I am for making Deathslinger a 115% killer, comparing him to Pyramid Head, who has similar ranges and can actually shoot through walls. I dont see a reason for Deathslinger having a 32 meter radius and being a 110% killer. Either give him a lullaby that is permanent from 24 meters(doing effectively the same as 32 meter terror radius: making M&A less powerful on Slinger), or make him 115% with 32 meter TR.
"Humanly impossible to counter" is a blatant lie, you could easily use most maps to break LOS.
Killer gameplay is almost nothing but calling coinflips survivors give us, the idea that survs should be able to juke anything but an m1 is stupid, even if bhvr agrees with it and is balancing the game around it.
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@dallasmedicbag said:
the nerf isnt even a big one get a hold of yourself man
His tr is now massive relative to his movespeed and his gun is now unnecessarily clunky. Even if he isn't much weaker he feels awful to play
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It should either be base kit or not exist at all. Playing around something you're not sure someone has is annoying, and then they can re-balance around it.
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Camping is an awful idea if the idea of a win is a 4k, it wastes too much time.
If the idea of a win is a 2k, camping is the most effective tactic possible for all killers but doctor (who can know how many people are near the hook), as survivors need to make mistakes for a killer to catch them.
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@Aneurysm said:
They can change the characters in any way they like. They could make every killer have nurse's base speed if they were inclined to. Not that that would be a good change, but it's their prerogative.
And lightning can strike from a clear sky but that also doesn't affect this discussion.
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@BlueMeansDeep said:
This would stop:
- Hag’s strategy consistent of 10 traps around the hook.
- Bubba’s standing at the hook with their chainsaw.
- Plague standing at the hook with red vomit.
Killers would still be able to M1/grab, so I don’t think this would have much negative impact at all. It would make the game healthier for sure.
Why not just remove hooks entirely and give every killer PH's cage if you feel killer defending the hook is so bad for the game?
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Slinger's nerf is a perfect example of the design philosophy of dead by daylight.
Anything a killer can do outside of m1 must have an arbitrary delay so the survivor can react.
Survivors should have been given more mobility on chain against a backing up death slinger, since breaking the chain was meant to be the counterplay. Backing up turns it into a formality.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2564822#Comment_2564822
I mean, aside from the most biased people, everyone should agree that Deathslinger needed some changes. If those were the right changes is a different thing, but he needed something.
Enjoy your queue times
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The idea that "good survivors should escape" is the core of the problem. Why should a good survivor always escape a good killer? Why does killer need to be an entirely reactive role?
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People don't play for fun, they play out of spite for the other side.
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The balance of dbd is ######### beyond the ideas of weak or strong, the entire design philosophy is bizarre.
Killer has no actual control over the course of the game, all they can do is punish survivor mistakes and give them more opportunities to make mistakes.
Survivors have full control of the game and are nigh impossible to kill if they play perfectly, but if they aren't genrushing with meta perks are punished heavily for their mistakes.
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@Astrian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2531152#Comment_2531152
Boon Totems are slightly over tuned, but as a concept are fine.
The videos that people post online are legit best case scenarios with multiple boons overlapping each other. Legit if they removed the ability for them to stack, Boon Totems would be fine.
It takes like what, 16 seconds to set one up? 1 or 2 for the killer to break it? It's strong, but that's not a bad thing. I'd rather survivors be given something somewhat strong than for the game to remain the exact same for years and years and years.
If killer is hunting for a boon totem, they aren't chasing, meaning one more survivor is free to do gens