Disregard this post now you guys won.
You guys need to realize that the dev team only consists of around 800 people. You may think that’s a lot but if you look at other companies its very small. Activison has 10,000 developers and Blizzard has just under 5,000 working on the hearthstone properties alone.
I think we need to think about this, if there are let’s say, 50 main problems and 80 bugs for each platform and there are only 800 devs they can hardly split up people to work on each issue. So let’s just be patient and let them fix the issues.
btw im not talking about bhvr as a whole Im talking about just the dev team that actually cares about their game.
edit: changed this since you guys changed my mind
Comments
I'm good.
it's hard to cut them slack when patch after patch has been dropped on us without warning and plagued with issues...
Not after NFTs.
Yeah thats why I said just the dev team, not BHVR the company.
Yeah that’s true, but if they are trying to rush out each patch because we the community are angry it’s just going to be sloppy and create more problems as well.
We don’t know if the dev team was associated with it or not though. That’s why I’m not just going to give them benefit of the doubt until I’m convinced they’re innocent.
No.
the community wouldnt be angry if they didnt rush out patches that were in such an awful state in the first place. also if they had some damn quality control to make sure patches will actually work, that'd be cool.
That’s the problem…..they don’t show that they care. They make tone deaf balance changes and, more importantly, push out updates that are gamebreaking. There is no excuse for releasing a patch that literally stops the game from working. To make matters worse, they release patches like this on a regular basis! What do they spend their time doing? The devs put in boon totems, something that no one asked for, and release overpriced cosmetics. They also continually change the graphics engine instead of optimizing what they already have, which has led to the total lie of 60 FPS they announced over two years ago.
Why should we sympathize with them again?
I’ve been waiting for this update since March 2019, with nothing but silence from the team about if it is ever coming or if they have given up on it, which I think seems obvious to us all at this point; I’d say 2-3 years is plenty of slack.
If anything I would argue they have been given too much slack and that’s why they keep releasing broken garbage on top of unfixed problems from the last broken content we paid for.
If they were more concerned about losing players then they would have more self respect when it comes to releasing patches that break as much as they fix on such an insanely regular schedule.
You make really good points, they really should be focusing more on some things than the things they are focusing on. But, it’s clear that some things are harder to do than others. So they may be trying to get the things they can fix fixed first before trying to tackle the harder issues that are going to take a lot more thinking and man power to fix. Although, yeah, I agree they should really get back on optimizing the game.
I know that BHVR has already betrayed us once before recently, but it has been revealed that at least some of the dev team were not informed of the NFT decision until after it was announced. So taking on that stance, they are innocent.
No. Their lack of care proves they aren't deserving of any slack.
It is rough being a developer who gets blamed for the decisions of the higher ups who rarely, if ever, take responsibility.
Ofc the devs are not in fault for that, they are just workers that to what they are told i assume. Who needs to ne accountable for its failures is whoever is in charge of making decisions.
I'll say that the individuals who were unaware of the NFTs get a pass.
They have an internal QA team, and the PTB. They have no excuse for the chapters they release. Call a cookie a cookie.
Is DBD as big as COD and Overwatch?
No forgiveness after what they did to deathslinger.
They've had enough slack
You would not say that if you still swam this spaghetti on the prior gen consoles.
Each and every update worsens gameplay performance if not coming awefully close to breaking it outright; being told repeatedly for years no M&K support, no Fog Whisperers, no graphics options, and no lobby chat; plus highly unlikely to ever get Cross Progression or 60fps,
Right now? It is definitely bigger than Overwatch.
Yeah no. I've been there done that, slack is out at this point.
It's not about rushing patches. Because they DO ALREADY.
The point would be more to stop the rush to get these chapters out every 3 months, take time for a GAME HEALTH chapter.
I mean in game complexity, not players.
I was on a landscaping crew for three years when I started college. Our company was just 4-5 of us any given season, as opposed to other companies splitting 20-25 guys into separate crews, and you know what that meant? It meant taking on a smaller workload than those larger companies so we could get every job done right and not have to come back to correct something because we rushed through it.
That being said, I don't know exactly how BHVR operates, but I'd suspect the devs are having too much thrown onto their to-do lists by the higher ups; or, at least I hope that's the issue because I really do want to give the devs credit if I can. Regardless, I've cut BHVR enough slack to be let down time and time again. I'll keep up with updates for now to see if it's worth coming back to, but I kind of feel free from all the BS since I've stopped playing
Thats exactly what I’m saying
They don't care about their game and they cannot accept any criticism regardless of tonality
If they didn’t care about their game it wouldn’t even be here.
Well I personally like to think that the devs that made the game care, it’s just the higher ups calling the shots that don’t. If I were a developer and the game I helped make was getting treated the way it was as it is now, I would leave and use my talents elsewhere. It’s very apparent that the higher ups at BHVR don’t see the state of the game that way and just care about the money it’s making.
They do care about the cash cow aspect, that has been painfully clear for so long. There is rarely QoL updates with this game anymore. For over a year, each and every patch has been two steps forward, five steps back with bugs. It would seem that the company does as little work as possible while keeping the semblance of stability up while the art team rakes in most of the income (although I'm sure the NFT department is now a tremendously important part of their future)
Balancing issues aside, this company is remarkable at targeting very small inconsequential technical updates and ignoring critically important and glaring issues that severely compromise the experience for most players.
800 Devs is a Large company. This is no longer a small indie company, stop treating them like they are. Companies that have less than 100 devs put out more consistent and far less buggy content, stop making excuses for them. The game company I work for has less than 40 people and we are constantly bug fixing and updating builds.
I think they used to care. I don't think they care anymore because the money flows whether the game is smooth or not. Any programmer knows the path to success starts with something that barely works, which means it works. There isn't any incentive to spend time and energy updating something that technically works.
Since the games release in 2016, it's been a back and forth between the "do better devs" and "cut them some slack" threads.
I, like many others, was in the "cut them some slack" group many years ago. Then repeated PR and technical blunders slowly molded my opinion into pure cynicism in regards to their performance.
I'm happy to see the cycle continues with newer players, and welcome you to the "do better" side when you're ready.
That is actually a really good point. I mean one of my favorite games Deep Rock Galactic has a dev team of only 26 people and they are about to release a big update with only positive things that the community wants and usually bugs are fixed just hours after they are first reported.
thanks for the offer but I’ve had the game since 2018 (saw chapter specifically) and even though I never played a match cus I was a wuss until just before blight was added I still always kept up with the game’s development and noted progress.
I just like to believe people/companies can eventually do good things even with a bad track record. (Even though so far my hopes haven’t really been rewarded.)
The other thing to consider is the humanity aspect about it. At no time are we being critical of the personal human when they are off the clock. I believe all of these comments are solely directed at the on-the-clock BHVR employees who fail to meet their consumer's expectations. This isn't an excuse for the consumer frustration but it is definitely a reason.
Nope. They get paid. Probably near 150K per year. DBD is no place for cry baby Devs.
FF14 has a team size similar to BHVR and pump out updates with at least 1000 times the amount of content this game gets. Grinding Gear Games has a team thats a fraction of both of those games size and comes out with a full leagues worth of content every 3 months.
Size only matters so far for game design. Excuses don't make greatness.
I know a game where the company has around 600 or 700+ employes and their game have almost no bugs or major bugs that makes the game unplayable.
They are doing the best for their game, listening to their fanbase and taking an action to make them satisfied. and their game is around for 3 years or so.
I'm not in DBD since it released but since I'm around here, i hear and i see for myself and every single day there is an issue that yet is not being fixed.
I have a bug that people get since 2018 (!) i experience small bugs in the lobby and sometimes during the game that makes me angry. It's not fun and unprofessional when the game has been out for almost 6 years.
They don’t care about the game and the community, meanwhile they sound pretty much arrogant to me. Should I have empathy? No.
Totally agree mr. psionic. Otherwise they would post here more.
Listening to their streamers maybe.
Nurse has had....(or honestly might still have) a teleport bug where you basically get stuck and can't blink a second time, whole sound triggers repeatedly while you try to move. The damn bugs been around for years......YEARS.....YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARS!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZceMrbB9cDULet that sink in. Not like....Oh man this new bug appeared last month and after long grueling hours we finally got it patched up NO...
YEAAAAARS! CD Project Red has a faster bug fix time than this game and cyberpunk released on the scale of resembling a 5 year old mashing a brick into keyboard overwriting someones code base.... Someone make this make sense...
they have 800 PEOPLE WORKING FOR THEM DUDE.
Dang you guys are all making really good points!
Therefore I am changing my stance on this topic
my stance goes from Benefit of The Doubt to Indifferent
I hope you all are happy
bro one of the top threads on here is about the continued ignorance of performance issues on last gen consoles and it's been like that for years I'm not cutting any slack
years
YEARS
Now that we had a nice story of your stance on what Behaviour is lets have a look at what they say about themselves?
Our Story
Founded in 1992, Behaviour Interactive is Canada’s largest independent game developer and publisher. The company boasts more than 850 employees at its studio in Montreal, Canada. In 2021, its most successful IP, the award-winning Dead by Daylight, surpassed 36 million players on all platforms.
Our successful development history includes multiple partnerships alongside the entertainment industries’ finest brand owners, and creators.
Our Difference
We have built our reputation on rigorously developing unique games and transforming the world’s most renowned intellectual properties into interactive experiences that are designed to engage audiences across every platform.
CREATIVE IN OUR IDEAS YET DISCIPLINED IN OUR EXECUTION
We are in the innovation business. We strongly believe in trying new tech, methods, and ideas. It’s the result that counts, not how we get there.
PUSHING OUR LIMITS AND LEARNING FROM OUR MISTAKES
We boldly venture into new platforms or audiences, learning along the way, as we fix and ship.
DESIGN-FOCUSED
Our seasoned teams have proven expertise in all aspects of design required by today’s evolving market, including traditional gameplay, systems design, game economics, user experience, social mechanics, and data-driven live operations.
Our games are prototyped and fully playable before they reach the pre-production phase … Creating hundreds of experiences across all genres and platforms has enabled us to mold our design teams into effective and efficient creative powerhouses.
TECHNICALLY ADEPT
Our engineers are skilled technical veterans who have worked with every technology available, including our partners’ proprietary tools and engines. We are experts in Unity and Unreal, having developed, ported, and remastered numerous titles on these engines.
We have also created our proprietary backend technology, which is currently live on multiple games and many platforms, supporting millions of players worldwide.
DATA-DRIVEN
Behaviour has outpaced the competition and created its internal Live Operations group consisting of product managers, data analysts, customer support specialists, and community managers.
Our teams utilise a wide range of technologies; always learning and adapting processes to be as efficient and data-driven as possible. These Live Operations teams are integrated early in production to drive the business strategy from soft launch onward, focusing on emergent trends and marketplace success through Key Performance Indicator optimization.
So, lets be real... Behaviour is not a small company and even by industry standards are considered large at this point in time, they are supposed to be held to a high standard and it is something they themselves state that they do. Do not create a picture that the bodies that govern the company and the developers are somehow two separate entities, they are one company and they are all responsible for what is delivered. Being critical of what they deliver is perfectly reasonable and the correct thing to do, they set their own time lines and their own expectations. While I might not agree with some of the negative backlash they receive, but it doesn't mean that we should throw all sense of standards out of the windows.
You've taken the first step, my apprentice.
look at fe. path of exile, they have around 150 devs, like 15 of them are programmers and see how much stuff do they roll out with each update
if there really are 800 people working on dbd then i doubt that they do actually work