ChiSoxFan11
ChiSoxFan11
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I remember when bait posts showed a least a semblance of effort to them. Or correct spelling. I think I'd settle for either.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2757159#Comment_2757159
Unfortunately, the really good SWF sits too long in a lobby so the system is apparently giving them the next available killer. I agree MMR shouldn't exist in an asymmetrical game. It needs to be balanced for average matches.
I ... agree with you? 😉
There's definitely an imbalance in the number of people playing killer vs. those playing survivor at peak times of the day (early evening up through the early morning in my area). When I play survivor, it's standard to have lengthier waiting times at survivor (anywhere from 3 minutes some nights to 5-6 minutes on others) and pretty much instantaneous matches as killer (that's pretty much my experience constantly).
It's not just the "good" SWF that's sitting around waiting most evenings -- it's ALL survivors (again, in my area and my experience). And it's clear to people paying attention (like you must notice) that matches are being thrown together with MMR being completely thrown out the window all across the board during those peak periods -- queue time absolutely is taking precedence over any SBMM numbers.
I'm a fairly decent survivor, and a slightly better than that killer. What my MMR is -- only BHVR knows, and they're not saying, lol. What I do know is that, in any given night of playing both killer and survivor for 5-6 hours during those peak times, the lobbies I get as killer can range from super-efficient SWF squads to absolute novices at the game (the latter determined usually by grade, perks and their tiers being run, and their general play against me) -- even when I'm literally playing the same killer back-to-back. As survivor, I'm usually playing as part of a duo, and on any given night, we're going up against top-level Nurses or Huntresses ... or it's a Myers with two Tier 1 Shape perks equipped who gets gen-rushed out of the game. And the quality of our teammates go from Ayrun-like skills to people who couldn't spell Ayrun if you spotted them the first 4 letters of their name.
I had hopes for SBMM/MMR, but like so many others, I'm disappointed with the implementation of it and its results. There needs to be tweaks. I'd rather wait longer for a more evenly-balanced match if I have to.
** To the OP and their question what to do? Without seeing you play, it's hard to answer. When I'm playing killer, I'm either running the new Pain: Resonance perk or, in a few select cases, I'm masochistically running Ruin still. BNP's don't matter if you can get someone off of the gen they're working on. I played the recently-gutted Deathslinger last night against a 3-person SWF and a solo -- two of the SWF had Commodius/BNP toolboxes. I ran Ruin, pushed one survivor off a gen, broke chase when they went to a tile I had no business wasting time with them at, then pushed the other toolbox off of a different gen -- after downing them and slapping them on a PR hook, that was likely two BNP's that went completely for naught. Kept pressuring survivors with constant downs/hooks on PR hooks, Ruin did its work until they broke it, but eventually I ended up with a 4K -- and I definitely am NOT a world-class Deathslinger, lol.
A lot of people who play killer will say that a huge component of being successful is knowing when to commit to someone, and when to drop chase and look for someone more vulnerable. I still don't always do that -- and I can usually point to a moment that might lose me a match when that happens -- but improving one's game sense is so important. On my end, I get the occasional game that feels basically "unwinnable" do to map RNG or other factors, but that's rare. If every game is feeling that way to you, then either you're incredibly unlucky with your matchmaking (see the SBMM take above) -- or there's aspects of your rounds that you're going to need to look at to see where improvement opportunities lie.
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In a past kill/pick rate stats chart, Plague, had been if I'm remembering correctly, one of the least-picked (if not THE least-picked) killer on the roster (this was pre-Twins release).
After her QOL changes and the new Boon meta, I started playing her a lot more. She was a killer I always liked, but she was too clunky before those changes. I think that QOL help and the current COH status has definitely led to more Plagues roaming the Fog, which isn't a bad thing -- variety is always good.
Though facing 6 Plagues in 12 matches might lead someone to have a queasy stomach, lol.
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As I mentioned in another thread, in a number of my matches yesterday, survivors were sandbagging each other at an alarming rate. I gave multiple mercy hatches/doors to survivors getting hosed over by their teammates who were simply out there trolling.
My only match I bothered to bring an Anniversary cake as killer, I played super-fair as Billy on The Game to get a daily done -- and was rewarded with a teabagging Meg who wouldn't leave until she made sure I could see her BM'ing at the gate, too ignorant to realize her extra BP was from the cake I brought (and that was that for cakes, lol).
Two survivor rounds for a daily -- one an easy 4-person escape against a Ghostface, the other a disaster where a Huntress got their first hook and camped their hook in the basement.
So, yeah -- this event could be going better. But sadly, it's pretty par for the course when there's special events going on.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2752371#Comment_2752371
With how strong killers are and the meta, there is no way to do 5 gens and 5 totems. It's literally impossible. It's a miracle to get the main objective done.
Over my last 175 or so survivor matches -- some solo, the majority as a 2-person SWF duo -- I'm escaping around 55-60% of my matches. Some of those have even actually been against the dreaded meta Blight build you rail against regularly.
I think you might want to look at a redefinition of what the word "miracle" means.
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The good: Hey, we've got extra BP for every match! That's a needed help for the monstrous grind of this game!
The bad: All of the following happened yesterday in my games:
-- 1st match as survivor, the Huntress chases me for almost 2 gens and can't down me. After they eventually get a down on someone else (with 3 gens still up), they basement hook them and immediately camp. Playing Solo, I watch the other two try an unsuccessful rescue and get slugged, with the Huntress refusing to pick them up. Instead of ignoring them, I try to pick them up (not easy, since everyone is downed near the basement) but I end up eventually downed myself. I watched the Huntress leave a slug to almost bleed out going after one of the other survivors who actually hit the Kobe when they finally were hooked.
-- Have a daily as the Hillbilly to chainsaw survivors, and I'm a barely-competent Billy -- and we're on The Game. My only goal is to get my 4 stacks of BBQ and get the daily done, which I do. Bring an Anniversary cake for everyone, and after getting one kill, the Meg who was incredibly skilled by holding W and pre-dropping every pallet on the map as she was chased before I downed her, I see furiously teabagging at the gate when I finally go to chase her out, since she wouldn't just leave. Hey, you idiot -- your extra BP was MY cake, and that stupidity is why I'm sitting on 100-150 killer cakes to begin with. *shakes head* And .. that's the last cake of the night (or the event) I'm bringing for survivors now.
-- Round as Pyramid Head in the corn, and a Feng feels the need to teabag and taunt at every pallet she drops as if she thought she was the 2nd coming of Ayrun, JRM, and Noob3 combined. She might have been macroing a flashlight too -- it's hard to remember at this point. Too bad you stepped into my trails and were in torment before I hooked you the 2nd time -- that made it really easy to ignore any potential DS you might have had when I downed you almost immediately with a blind Punishment hit through the wall after your 308th teabag of the match. Bonus points that I let the remainder of your SWF (who showed much better sportsmanship than you did) leave at that point just to send you a message.
-- Round as Huntress on Midwich. The Claudette and Nea are immediately trolling, as they're spamming vaults/lockers almost from the beginning of the match. Kill the Bill, get hooks on everyone for my 4 BBQ stacks, and then ... the Nea and Claudette go into ultra-stealth mode, refusing to work on gens or much of anything. I come across the Nancy and could have killed her, but I felt bad for her -- she wasn't with the rest of the group -- and I showed mercy on her, letting her work on gens injured while I tried to find the other two. Only saw the Nea -- who tried to flashlight save -- when I found the Claudette and downed her for her death hook. Nea spent the rest of the match refusing to do ANYTHING -- at one point, I actually downed the Nancy to try and get more time to find the Nea, but this survivor refused to do anything to help their teammate. It took almost 10 minutes (of Nea presumably hiding in lockers and stealthing through the map) before I FINALLY found her hiding and hooked her. Nancy made no attempt to rescue her, and I let that poor solo player out -- she didn't deserve teammates who were clearly sandbagging/trolling from the start.
-- Round as The Nurse on the new map. A Laurie is running OOO, and when I blink to her at the very beginning of the match, she points to a hook and goes immobile. She's giving up immediately (little does she know, I'm a baby Nurse, lol). Does she not want to face Nurse, not want to play the new map, or is she possibly trying to intentionally tank their MMR? Who knows, but I do know it ruined the match, as even when I tried to not hook her, she was running interference in front of other survivors, potentially sandbagging them, and teabagging furiously in front of me. Gave the last survivor the hatch after killing her and trying to play the game as normally as possible so that everyone else could at least have a semblance of a normal match.
-- Round as The Doctor to get a daily done. On the new map, and I get my 4 stacks -- if I get kills, that's great, but two people of an obvious SWF group brought BPS, so I'm more interested in everyone getting a good BP haul (which is usually pretty easy as Doc). I've done nothing resembling camping or tunneling, so when I downed the Feng upstairs on the landing of the main building for what would have been their 2nd hook near the end of the match and I couldn't get them to a hook before they wiggled off -- and then they immediately went back to the same spot to get downed again? Yeah -- I'm camping your body Feng, while your group comes up to try and get you without being downed themselves. After re-downing her upstairs, she finally climbed around and fell to the ground, and this time I hooked her and left the hook so her team could get the rescue. I'm not sure if I was more irritated at the Feng (who to be fair, did do the "smart" play) or the devs for creating areas on maps like this (or RPD) where getting someone to a hook is nearly impossible. *shakes head*
I had one fun match as The Pig on Haddonfield against a fellow streamer who, after getting hit, took the chance of Booping me, which in my Pig matches, always gets the pass for someone. Eventually, everyone went for the Boop, and it turned into a funny, enjoyable farming match. Talked with him afterwards in his chat -- we both were exasperated at how sweaty and/or toxic things had been over the course of our respective nights, and we both welcomed a match that we actually -- gasp! -- had fun in.
I'm hoping all of the sandbagging/stupidity got out of people's systems yesterday, but I'm not going to be holding my breath.
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I play Pig a lot. If I have a "Main", it's her.
I like to think I'm good with her. I made it to Rank 1 with her before SBMM was a thing, and I've made it back again with her multiple times since. I lose matches with her where her weaknesses get exploited, or I get a bad map or unlucky RNG, or the team I play against is really good, or I just outright play badly.
BUT, I've beaten really, REALLY good teams with her. Sometimes quickly and sometimes in drawn-out matches. She's not The Nurse, obviously, but she's always been underrated, IMO, on Killer Tier lists.
When I play her, I'm playing to win and I'm playing for keeps -- BUT, she's the one killer I'm happy to meme with if the survivors want to. No one wants to do that when I'm playing Plague or Doctor or Nemesis, etc. -- so it's sometimes nice to have a match as Pig and not have to sweat from the word go. I play to have fun, and sometimes that fun is a farming match with everyone daring to Boop the Snoot. Sometimes survivors don't want that, and sometimes that fun is four little skulls in the Endgame screen next to the survivors names.
Does everyone have to play Pig the way I do? Of course not, and when I play survivor, I don't expect other Pigs to be docile. But sometimes I'm happy goofing off with the one killer that it's not going to be a surprise coming from as a break from the other matches that are literally being played like someone's actual life depended on the outcome.
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This forum never disappoints, lol.
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@Pulsar -- I wanted to address you without quoting anything you said in particular, but I also wanted to share my own thoughts in general.
First off, it would be sad to see if you weren't at least on the forum. I've read your posts over time and found you to be one of the most level-headed people here. You seem to have an understanding of what it's like on both ends of the player spectrum, you are willing to engage in reasonable debate over matters, and you seem to be a generally grounded, nice individual. Whatever is troubling you -- whether it's real-life health issues that you mentioned, or stress involved in the game, or anything else -- you have nothing but wishes on my end that things are better.
I can relate to some of the things you've mentioned. I started playing the game almost two years ago, when COVID-19 saw me get an extended furlough from work when everything was shut down. I have my own health issues -- I'm likely much older than you are (and frankly, much older than 95% of the people who post on this forum, if I had to guess) -- and my health issues are currently worsening steadily and could potentially leave me with a long-term disability. I was and am in a point in my life where I can manage without a regular job, so to keep myself from literally getting bored to death, I started playing DBD a LOT.
I've felt a lot of the frustrations that you have over the last two years. The game itself can be frustrating, with its bugs and balance flaws (and I know the issues you've had on console, as I'm a fellow console player). The community ranges from incredibly nice -- I've met some great people in-game that I now SWF with or had good conversations with, and I've had productive discussions here on occasion with reasonable people -- to incredibly immature, nasty dispositioned people, who gain their enjoyment in the belittling of others. As I thing @Tsulan said, the game is not going to be healthy if certain elements of the community aren't moderated better (Someone messaging me after a match to call me a baby killer/survivor or tell me to "Git good" is just a poor winner or a sore loser, and that reflects on their lack of sportsmanship -- the people who are resorting to the far-worse tirades, up to the calls for people they go against to harm themselves, have no place in the community and THOSE actions should result in action, but as stated BHVR is either too blind to the effects of that behavior or too scared of losing revenue from those players to address it properly).
I know you've experienced that, and I'm sorry for that. This is just a game, and no one should be subjected to truly despicable interactions as a result of playing it -- on console, my messages are turned off so I don't have to deal with that, but the community should strive to hold itself to a better standard and make it where that isn't necessary (I'd just as soon see post-chat abolished, since it almost always is nothing but a salt-fest it seems, but that's another debate altogether).
I stream the game and record for YouTube, and I feel pressure playing the game, even if it's not the same pressure as you might experience, so I feel I can relate at least somewhat. I feel the pressure to be entertaining, or to be informative, or to be -- actually somewhat GOOD at the game if people are watching (even if that's only ONE person, lol), and that's sometimes led to anxiety playing a game I originally started playing simply to relax. I'm also VERY competitive by nature and hate to lose, and I hate when I play poorly and don't do well as result. To combat that, I remind myself that I AM facing much bigger problems in my own life, that this is just a game, and I try to have fun in every match I play, even if I get trounced by a toxic SWF, or face-camped by a Bubba in the basement, or frustrated by a broken mechanic in the game itself. If I don't think that way, I'm at risk of ending up where I've seen so many other people end up at -- wanting to quit a game I've put a lot of time into and enjoy.
I took a break recently due to internet issues, and two weeks of essentially not playing the game did wonders for my own well-being regarding the game. Some here have suggested that it might help you as well. Here's to hoping that a break for you might do the same -- remember that it's just a game, and if it's not something you enjoy, then don't force yourself to play it. DBD for a lot of people is like their significant other might be -- you know they have flaws that drive you crazy sometimes, but you still love them in the end, and you inevitably end up back with them.
I hope a breather from DBD helps -- I hope whatever is going on outside of the game gets better -- and I hope to see you continue to post here and share your thoughts. And maybe in time, I hope to see you in the Fog of DBD again. Take care.
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I literally can't think of an instance where Exponential has actually been used -- or used effectively, at least -- in a match I've played in, either as killer or survivor. It's the weakest of the Boon perks and very situational.
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@ShinobuSK said:
Its not just Otz, most streamers who did this challenge had even higher killrate than he had. And OhTofu has every killer 4k except one
FWIW, OhTofu actually had done this already before. On his channel, he did a series he called the "Masochism Series", where at Rank 1 (before SBMM) he was playing every killer perkless with no add-ons (unless the killer had an add-on that made their power worse, in which case he used it). He did NOT go AFK to start those matches.
I didn't see his recent undertaking of this "challenge", but I DID see all of his "Masochism" matches. In those, he had some 4K's with the strongest killers, some competitive matches where he secured a kill or two with other killers, and other matches where he got absolutely destroyed by the survivors, which means he did better now than he did then with arguably harder conditions imposed on his play (the 30 seconds AFK is far more punishing than the use of a meme add-on, especially on certain killers).
What made his results different this time around? SBMM not working correctly, playing these matches at different times of the day (his previous attempts were taped matches in the morning and not during a stream), not sweating/camping/tunneling, etc. the first time around (he did say during the series that he found himself concentrating much more than he normally did since it was such a challenge), small sample size that lends itself to inconsistent results -- or something else? I'd be curious if someone would ask him during a stream what he thought the difference was between his matches now and the matches he played then.
ETA: A quick look back at that series and his actual results, which were better than I remember them being (he did call it the Masochism Series, after all, lol), but still not 4K's across the board. His results were pretty strong, but not as good as his recent test -- maybe his time playing those matches helped his performance in his recent attempts?
Totals from his Masochism series (which looked to go up until Twins, so no Trickster, Nemesis, or Pinhead) -- he played two matches as each killer back-to-back, so a total of 44 matches over 22 killers:
13 4K's
15 3K's
9 2K's
3 1K's
4 0K's
64% of matches conclusive victories of 3 or 4K's. 9 "draws", and 16% conclusive losses of 1K or less. He had unlikely results with double 4K's as Clown, of all killers, but had one of his two matches as pre-nerf Spirit end in just a 2K. What does any of this prove? That's subject for discussion, but I thought his prior similar attempt was worth noting.
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You're not the only one -- I had no idea about that either.
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This thread truly has everything that makes this forum ... err ... what it is.
-- People claiming the game is horribly killer-sided.
-- People claiming the game is horribly survivor-sided.
-- People using incomplete data/statistics to justify their points
-- People using outdated or out of context data/statistics to justify their points
-- People using well-known content creators videos out of context (with a cameo by one of those to clarify what they actually said)
-- People using the experiences of one of the best players in the world and claiming that represents the overall experience of the average player (FWIW, no one has posted a link to a different 2 hour long video of that same player, running meta perks in the middle of sweating to do win streaks in a number of those matches -- the title of THAT video is "2 hours of {famous streamer name] getting destroyed", which proves about as much as the other video being referenced in this thread does for some of the claims).
-- People using hyperbole and exaggeration
-- People flat-out making false statements
-- People who can't see there's two reasonable sides of this debate with solid points to be made on each, or that there's two both-important roles for the game to be successful, but instead focus only on their own -- and therefore, those are the same people unwilling to see the forest for the trees.
But at least it's been ... entertaining?
ETA: I forgot to mention that some good points have been brought up in this lengthy discussion, so I don't want to come across as negative. For those people who have made those points, kudos to you.
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@Oiry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2741577#Comment_2741577
I have a feeling Legion is almost like Plague with CoH :D
I liked playing Plague before COH, and I love her even more now. I've literally had people DC seconds into a game and looked afterwards to see they were running COH and rage quit the minute they saw a fountain. 🤣
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The best part is trying to get Adept, using your power efficiently -- and getting punished in Emblems for it.
It took me a while to get Adept Plague as, having sick survivors continuously cleansing (which is how you're not supposed to play against her, and is optimal if you're playing her) was punishing me I'm Emblems because I allowed too much "survivor healing". That's just one example of how Adept Killer can make you want to pull your hair out, lol.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740168#Comment_2740168
Personally I want it to change so you can heal yourself without it deactivating. The trade off being once the heal is completed by you, or you are healed by any other means, it deactivates.
That's been my one issue with the last DS change I'd like to see addressed. Healing yourself isn't advancing objectives, IMO, and would be different than healing teammates. It's rough playing solo, running DS, and watching the person who unhooked you taking off without any attempt to heal and knowing you'll have to sacrifice your DS to get back to full health.
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As someone who runs DS on every build, but someone who plays killer equally as often as survivor -- DS is fine the way it is. The old abusive aspects of it are gone, and as people have pointed out, if you're hooking people so quickly that you're eating DS after hooking other survivors, then the game is probably a rout at that point anyway.
Regarding baiting DS by jumping into a locker? I deal with either by just moving on if circumstances require me elsewhere -- let them sit in there and do nothing -- or, if the game is already heavily headed in my favor, I'll either eat it and go after them, or I've stood in front of a locker until the timer ran out and yanked them out then. (Don't bait me when I'm not going after you -- if you want my attention that badly, I'll be happy to give it to you then).
Someone recently baited DS by jumping into a locker after an unhook when I was clearly going after the rescuer. I was playing Trapper -- and I simply went after the rescuer again after I put a trap in front of the locker. 🤔 Needless to say, that ended badly for both of the survivors in question. 🤣
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I played a match against a SWF as Pig today: Badham map offering, one survivor bringing a map to locate totems, one running OOO, and multiple survivors setting up multiple boons around the map (and they were trying to Sabo as well).
I still got the 4K, with one gen left (Scorgue Hook: Pain Resonance MVP!). I handled the Boons the way I usually do. I rarely use Hit & Run strategies anymore if Boons are in play, and I only break them if I have nothing better to do (as in, take on a new chase, check on a gen, etc.). I will abandon chase if it makes sense to do so, but I'm more likely to stay on a survivor who's injured longer than I might have used to.
Ironically, when I had two dead in the above-mentioned match, and the 3rd survivor hooked, I found the last survivor blessing a Plaything totem in the basement of the school (I could hear them working on Bones as I was above them). They were too focused on re-Booning the totem rather than going to get the save, which shows that, as OP as COH can be, sometimes it can be used to the killer's advantage.
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@dictep said:
99% of dc are against campers and tunnelers. Do you really think this kind of selfish people would let the last surv escape?
You couldn't be more wrong if you were arguing that the world was flat.
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I LOVE playing against Jump Scare Myers players. Win or lose, those are some of the most fun games I've ever had as a survivor (and I equally love playing Myers as killer as well that way). They're one of the few times you can actually get scared or startled playing this "horror" game.
I'll agree with what most people here have said. "Play normally" is another way of saying, "Play the way we want you to so we can win and not have a real challenge". Anyone who deals with chat (I'm on console, so I don't have to worry about it), you have my sympathies if you have it turned on -- it's almost never anything worthwhile from what I can tell, and it's a "feature" that, if BHVR wanted to cut down on toxicity in the community, should just be eliminated at this point.
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I learned not that long ago (I've been playing for nearly two years) that The Nurse can't blink while they're being flashlight-blinded. Your blink won't charge until you're out of the stun. Considering how little Nurse I play, and the fact I never use flashlights (since I'm terrible with them), I'm not terribly surprised it took me nearly two years to figure this out.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739378#Comment_2739378
It's not though? Your average killer player isn't otz, they're not going to be as good in chase or use their power perfectly or bring a bunch of gen slowdown meaning they're going to be making a lot more errors and not have a cushion for when they do. I feel like this is partly because you can have a really good meta build as a survivor without making any purchases while the meta perks for killer are spread out among a bunch of dlc killers so they're not going to be as good.
Every time someone use Otz or Dowsey or Tru or Ayrun or Zubat or JRM or (insert top-level content creator here) as an example that the game is killer or survivor sided, it's akin to pulling up footage of Tom Brady or Michael Jordan or Mike Trout or Wayne Gretzky and saying, "Look at them and see how easy it is for them to dominate? Playing football/basketball/baseball/hockey at the top levels must be ridiculously easy, right?".
Some of these people literally LIVE playing this game. That clearly doesn't represent the average experience of the average player who pops in a DBD match a couple of times a week.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735496#Comment_2735496
I don't know. That's why I think it's really curious that I'm consistently getting a certain number and other people are consistently getting something different.
That's a fair enough answer.
I will still state that it's simply small sample sizes by all of us that are causing deviations in the results, as well as an incomplete look (again, by everyone who's chimed in so far, myself included) at all of the variables that can go into determining what results any given match will have.
A perfect example in my own data is killers versed against. The most common killer in my matches overall has been The Artist. Could I use that "data" to claim that The Artist is now the most popular killer in DBD, or that she's clearly OP and therefore being picked in numbers I would have previously seen Blight or Huntress or Spirit picked in? I could make those claims -- but considering that I started compiling my data right at the time The Artist was released, that single fact alone would go a large way to explaining WHY that killer was the most picked by my opponents, and it's a perfect illustration how statistics can be completely misinterpreted if there's not enough of a sample size to determine accuracy of those stats and the relevance of missing context for said statistics.
All of that said, if the OP wants to continue to compile stats and update, I'm a stat-head (I've played fantasy baseball very successfully for close to 30 years now), so I'm always interested in analyzing numbers. I plan to keep up with my stat keeping as well, not to "prove" anything, but if for no other reason than it's interesting for me to do. I'd hope Pulsar does the same, and yourself if you want to put the time in.
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735532#Comment_2735532
Statisticians disagree with you. Set of 100 is statistically significant and therefore meaningful. I'm tired of explaining what statistically significant sample size means. Google it if interested.
I've got pretty much twice the data that you have, and it shows wildly different match results that you show. By your definition, my set of matches should be statistically significant as well and therefore meaningful (even though I'm making no such claims of my own).
I'm curious what conclusion you draw from that differing data.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735496#Comment_2735496
200 survivor games is a much larger sample size than 4 games as Trapper. So yours is the most relevant.
I would agree, but I also will make no claims that my experience is anything other than anecdotal evidence and should be taken with a LARGE grain of salt. I plan to keep recording match results, which have been also been recording maps, the type of SWF group if any, lobby wait times, escapes vs. kills, usage of Ruin and NOED, the killer used, and whether the killer legitimately camped/tunneled (not using the loose definitions people toss around). The more matches I get, the more significant my numbers will be -- that is, to say, STILL not a large enough sample to paint the entire DBD killer/survivor experience with a large brush and claim it's accurate.
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735470#Comment_2735470
What people think is irrelevant. We were told that SBMM would match us with people of equal skills, which clearly isn't happening for every one.
I'd argue it's rarely happening for anyone at this point. As I stated earlier in this thread, I'm of the belief (without actual proof, obviously, just anecdotal evidence) that queue times are the primary factor in matchmaking. During one of the previous tests -- when someone with a presumed high SBMM rating like Dowsey -- would literally sit in a lobby waiting an hour to find a match, I think the devs adjusted things to keep that from happening, and queue times are prioritized over everything else as a result.
Again, that's an opinion. My "data" is that, during peak survivor times at night, when I play killer, I can play someone I'm presumably very good with (like Pig) and my lobby time is instantaneous. When I play a killer I never play and I get clobbered with regularly, I'm still getting instantaneous matches, and survivors whose skill level are pretty much no different than what I get as my "main". (Not EVERY match goes that way, but far more than not, leading me to believe that the rarer lobbies of lesser-skilled survivors I go against are simply happening randomly).
Same as survivor -- when playing for 4-5 hours during the peak periods (either as part of a SWF or a solo), the quality of the killer ranges from God-tier to complete potatoes to everything in between. The ONLY thing that stays consistent (since I've been actively keeping track of it as well) has been lobby wait time to find a match, which tends to differ by 15-30 seconds top from the longest to shortest times. suggesting that those times are determining who I/we are matched with, and NOT any SBMM ranking.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735465#Comment_2735465
Actually, 100 games is statistically significant. It works the same way polling and scientific studies do. You don't need every single game, or even a large percentage of games data to be able to get a relatively accurate view of data.
For example, America has a population of 329 million, while polling sample sizes are only 500 to 1,000. Sample size does not need to be massive to get statistical data from.
So, I have 200 matches recorded on my own as survivor which show escape rates -- both for myself and for people on my "team" -- that are wildly different than either the OP's, or Pulsar's (mine are in the middle of the two of their results).
Care to explain -- without using a biased take -- which one of the three of ours are relevant and whose aren't then? How are the OP's numbers statistically significant, yet mine or Pulsar's aren't, and why?
I worked in a casino for a number of years. This debate reminds me of the people who would come to a roulette wheel, look at the board showing what numbers had hit already, and then betting certain numbers because they were able to "identify a trend" based on a handful of spins on record. That would pretty much work out for them the way rational people would assume it would (and is why casinos stay in business -- they're built on people who see numerical trends that simply aren't there or accurate and pay for it -- literally).
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734568#Comment_2734568
Wow, that's really weird. I recorded a lot of games (over 100 or so) and am consistently seeing what the OP posted. Also I've been keeping an eye on what other players are posts and they're pretty close to what OP is posting too, for kill rate.
Wonder what makes your data so different than everyone else. Also, I thought you played Killer?
The reason his data is different than the OP's -- and both are different than the results I'm seeing from my match results -- is again, sample size, which is ridiculously small considering the number of matches played of DBD daily.
The steam charts show that, on PC alone, over 45,000 were playing DBD 5 minutes ago. If we were to assume that there were NO console players playing the game at that time (which would obviously, not be the case), with 5 people per match, the rough estimate would be that thousands of separate matches were going on at that time, even if some or most of those players were simply sitting in lobbies at any given point in time in that short period. When you start adding in the console players, we're easily talking tens of thousands of matches a day. Statistically, using 100 random matches over any period is going to be such a small sample size -- we're talking literally fractions of fractions of a single percent (assuming all of those 100 were in a single day, and potentially matches overall numbering in the six-figures in that same period of time), that you simply cannot use it to "prove" any point. Whatever stats the devs throw out -- assuming they're using real data and not simply making things up on the fly -- will be far, far more accurate than anything ANY of us can come up with, even if we pooled all of our numbers together.
The OP's experiment is simply one person's brief snapshot of a much larger event that he (or Pulsar, or I, or you, or anyone here) simply do not have enough data to draw actual meaningful conclusions with. They're interesting to read what ONE person might be experiencing over what amounts to a brief snapshot in time, but statistically, they're not going to be necessarily representative of the complete, larger experience.
ETA: And all of the above ignores all of the other variables that could come into play to skew numbers from any of us. SBMM, any of our individual skills, all of the RNG involved in the game, whether people are playing to meme or playing serious, what perks are being run on either side, etc., etc.
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I've been keeping survivor stats for a little while now, with approaching 200 matches on record now (the huge majority of these matches have been either viewable on Twitch or YT over time). These have been a mixture of 2-person SWF groups, 4-person SWF groups, and solo matches.
My personal escape rate (excluding one night where my SWF team threw during the Winter Event doing goofy Snowman things, and I spent a whole night running a goofy build to make Power Struggle work) has been slightly over 60%, with the "team" as a whole just slightly under that at 59%. And while I'm a decidedly decent survivor, I'm nowhere near great at that part of the game.
What does that mean? Very little -- it's small sample size, just as the OP's 100 matches (or even Otz's matches are -- comparing our results with his would be like comparing our basketball skills with an in-his-prime Michael Jordan -- he's arguably in the top 1% of players, so what happens to him will never be typical of the majority of the playerbase). The OP's numbers are an interesting snapshot, but much like my numbers would be, it's such a tiny representation of what actually happens in literally tens of thousands of matches a day, it's not statistically relevant -- simply one person's brief experiences.
For the record, I DO agree that SBMM isn't working properly, as I firmly believe that it prioritizes queue times over everything else, particularly during peak hours, which is exactly what it shouldn't be doing. The devs have mentioned that they intend to tweak SBMM in the future -- it does desperately need changes (I think it's slightly better than the busted matchmaking we had before, but it's FAR from perfect at this point and needs work).
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I am super-stoked to hear this (no pun intended). I had given up hope we'd see them restored -- and to see the original actor doing the lines, and more of them? What a great bit of news to see today!
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731874#Comment_2731874
Oh yeah I knew you would understand it lol. Seems like you’re more of a fan than I am. I’m just a casual that hates the Astros with a passion so yeah lmao.
I've actually run a fantasy baseball league for close to 30 years now (THAT'S definitely dating my age, if nothing else, lol). I've been a huge baseball fan since I was a little kid. My Sox looked like we had a shot at making the World Series this year, but the Astros got in the way, unfortunately -- so no love for them here either.
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@GannTM said:
I absolutely love how you complain about cheating when the word Astro is in your name (only people that watch baseball will get the joke)
My username should explain it all. 😁
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I'm definitely on the older end of the player base. FAR on the older end, lol.
My guess would be that the majority of players are in the 21 and under range (college kids and younger). The maturity level of the bulk of the player base, however, feels like it's half that sometimes. 🙄
ETA: Eight seems awfully young to be playing this game, particularly with its horror elements. My friend and I had someone join us one time who was 12, and I thought THAT was crazy young.
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I consider every day, not just every year, that I get in this world to be a gift, and one not to be taken for granted.
Happy New Year to everyone here, and my hopes that you all have a wonderful 2022. 🙂
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@Ryan489x said:
Member when killers used to respect the kobe? I member.
Unless the survivor in question (or their team) is guilty of BM'ing during the match, I'll know I'll give hatch/door to someone who pulls off the 4%. but it's happened so infrequently.
As someone who plays killer at least half the time, I have no problem with the 4%. Getting rid of it (and the occasional build that's made completely around the kobe) is completely unnecessary. There's a ton of game-related (and killer experience-related) issues that need to be addressed -- this isn't one of them.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719881#Comment_2719881
I’m not against playing with bot killers. Better than campers and tunnelers
No matter what people's thoughts are on the state of the game, the day AI killers are necessary for the game to create matches for people to alleviate queue times is the day the game is officially on the way to the grave.
While I'm in favor of bots for practice mode (both for killer and survivor), having them in the actual game? Watching AI Zombies walk mindlessly into objects, or playing the tutorials should be plenty enough evidence that the devs currently couldn't make an AI killer capable of providing even the tiniest challenge except against people who've literally just installed the game.
AI killers that the devs could implement currently would be the equivalent of truly making the game Gen Repair Simulator. There's no way I'm interested in playing that (though some people, based on their approach to the game, apparently are).
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My friend and I -- both on console -- just played a match against a face-camping Bubba. When the first person went down and we realized immediately the Bubba was camping, he and I jumped on gens. Our two (presumably) PC teammates (who, based on their usernames, were playing together as a duo) spent their match getting downed and re-downed by the Bubba until both were dead. If either of them had simply jumped on a gen, we would have had a three-person escape, but instead, my friend and I got the match down to 25% of the last gen remaining before we were eventually killed (literally) by the 2 v. 1 we ended up in because our two PC teammates were the proverbial bug hurling themselves against the windshield over and over again.
And for the record, these were both "Rank 1" PC players. Good players and not so good players can be found on all platforms and at all ranks.
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Playing survivor, I only bring in Event offerings or BPS if I'm playing as part of a SWF and they're bringing in the same. Even in the case of a match gone terribly wrong, I know the offering won't be completely wasted, and I'll get decent enough BP from the match.
Playing killer, I REFUSE to bring in Event offerings or BPS anymore (only Survivor Pudding if I want a higher BP total). FAR too many of those matches have ended up in Survivor Speedruns, accompanied by BM'ing during/after the match. I'm still sitting on so many Event cakes from the 4th anniversary, never mind the 5th, that will never get used -- I'm not rewarding that behavior (no pun intended).
The last times I used an offering as killer was against a 4-person SWF (nearly identical names and matching outfits for everyone) during the 5th Anniversary where everyone used a cake. One player was particularly happy to BM me from the second the match started -- I made sure they died, and then I farmed with the rest of their team while they sat forever waiting for their teammates to finish (everyone but them got a ton of BP in the process -- we must have broken every totem. wall, and pallet on the map, everyone else got hooked twice and rescued, and I even slugged the remaining survivors, let them get picked up and healed, and slugged them again, ending in a 3-person slug race at the open exit gate at the end -- that BM'er must have been LIVID, lol 🤣). Even though that "technically" worked out okay (I would have rather played a regular match, but I was playing Pig, the others were in a Booping mood, and it ended up working out great for everyone else, so it was better than the alternative could have been), that was the last time I've used an offering as killer, and it probably will be unless something changes.
@Aven_Fallen said:
I think Party Streamers (and Event Cakes) should give 200% Bonus BPs for the user and 100% Bonus BPs for everyone else. Because it is a bad feeling if you throw in a BPS or Cake and the Killer/Survivors throw in Puddings or personal Cakes and you know that they will get more BPs than you, because they get their 100% and your 100% as well. Even worse when they are glued to Gens or try to one-hook as many Survivors as possible.
Buffing them to give 200% to the user would also encourage more players to use them outside of double BP-Events. (Even tho, I did not see many during the last double BP-Event...)
I think this idea is pretty good. It definitely would make me more willing to use those offerings when playing Solo survivor, and it might persuade me to use them as killer as well.
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I've started playing him more of late. I always wanted to since his release, but I was TERRIBLE with his ranged attack in the beginning, so I abandoned him for other killers. I've been practicing more of late, though, and I think I've finally shown some signs of improvement. Landing his ranged attack, especially blind through a wall when you've predicted a survivor's movement, is one of the more satisfying things in the game. I've still got a long way to go to feel like I can be consistent with him against top-level players, but he's been a lot of fun of late.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715171#Comment_2715171
I used to use it if I was on a killer that could defend it easily, like Hag. Now though, I find Surge+PR both more fun and more consistent than Ruin+Undying.
With you 100% on Pain: Resonance. It's arguably the best killer perk added in the last two years, other than pre-nerf Undying.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2715036#Comment_2715036
Ruin is one of those perks that tends to oscillate between being crazy strong and doing almost nothing.
I can relate to that. I stopped running Ruin on almost every build after regularly seeing it gone in a minute or less in my matches. On the very few killer builds I still have it on, more often than not it still goes quick -- but those matches it inexplicably isn't found, it can hard carry a match.
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I've also been keeping a detailed spreadsheet of my Survivor play. Over 150 matches so far, and I too have seen 0 Hags or Twins.
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I play everyone, but I always end up back on Piggie. I love her Ambush Attack, I love the slowdown of the traps, and I love to meme with survivors on occasion.
Everyone else, it depends on my mood. I've enjoyed Plague a ton since her QOL changes, Wraith is always fun, and I still have a soft spot for Myers, who was the first killer I played regularly. Pinhead became a quick favorite as well.
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I've seen it, on fellow survivors or on opponents when playing killer, very rarely. Unbreakable is still the better perk -- it only takes one well-timed UB to completely turn a match from a potential loss into a win, and having that be on-command at any time and any place on the map is more powerful than potentially unlimited pick-ups in a limited area. It feels like a perk that, like so many other perks, is potentially abusable by SWF groups, but not worth running otherwise.
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I think it's the best killer perk to be released since I started playing the game, which has been almost two years now (other than original Undying). It's now a staple on every killer build I have (with the exception of Trapper and Hag, since I don't want RNG to send those hooks into areas I'm not planning on defending), and it's outright replaced PGTW on the builds I had that perk on.
Targeting the gen that's most needed of regression while saving you the time to head to the gen to kick it is a huge help to nearly every killer on the roster, and it's also a nice information perk as well, but the perk is balanced by the potential downsides of RNG putting the hooks in bad locations, the possibility that your chases keep ending where Scourge hooks aren't readily available, there only being four of them (or fewer, if you sacrifice a survivor on one), and the necessity to actually be hooking people regularly in order to get value out of it. It's actually a well thought-out perk that manages to be powerful but not overbearing to go against.
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Congrats on the Adepts! 🥳
Great words of wisdom. I'm decidedly average at Pyramid Head. Trying to get his Adept, I ended up in a match against a team where the last gen popped and no one was dead (even though I had a lot of hooks). Figured I'd lost but soldiered on. Somehow pulled out the 4K and the Adept.
"It's never over 'till it's over" is a cliché for a reason. 🤔
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I wouldn't necessarily call all of these "unfun". Some are on here because they're annoying. Some are here because they're game-breaking. Others are on here because of they're simply my own feelings playing against them, but not a reflection on the fairness of the perk itself.
As Killer:
Dead Hard -- the number of times I've outplayed someone, only to watch them DH for distance to barely make a pallet or a vault and extend the chase, is beyond counting at this point.
Iron Will -- It's a fair perk, but when a really good survivor who knows how to lose themselves in the middle of a chase is running it, it's a huge-time waster.
Head-On -- It's more of a meme perk than a meta one, but getting hit with it -- especially when it's been set up by a SWF group -- seems personal. Whenever I get hit with it, I usually get really silent -- and make a mental note of what survivor did it to me, lol.
As Survivor:
Hex: Third Seal -- Another fair perk (as a Hex, it probably never makes it past a minute into the game), but if it stays up, it's a killer (no pun intended) for solo players, and even in a SWF, it can cause problems (especially on certain maps -- looking at you, RCPD).
Rancor -- Again, a very fair perk, but if I'm the Obsession, I know my match is probably going to end very badly once that last gen pops.
Sloppy Butcher -- Another fair perk, but I'm not very good at playing the match staying injured, so I'm getting my health state back. Taking forever to get healed is annoying, and potentially doing it over and over again (along with your teammates) during a match is sometimes game-changing.
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My opinion on Boons, even COH, has been evolving. The new Boon, Exponential, I'm not seeing run in my matches (either as killer or survivor). It's too situational and not worth the perk slot, IMO -- even Unbreakable itself can sometimes be a wasted perk slot, depending on the killer's playstyle. Shadowstep can be very powerful in the right hands (especially if paired up with Iron Will), but some survivors -- "raises hand" -- who aren't as good at breaking LOS in a chase effectively won't get as much usage out of it. Really good survivors likely can, but it's another perk I don't see run as often as I would expect it to be (much like Lucky Break isn't run, even though it's also extremely powerful when used in the same fashion).
I think COH is overpowered, but only in the sense that the boons can be relit over and over. Like the other powerful perks in the game, if used properly, it can literally be game-changing and almost game-breaking (as in a SWF group that sets up zones around the map -- and moves them strategically -- to constantly give teammates a place to reset). When used incorrectly -- like in a game where my teammate and I watched a Mikaela spend the entirety of the match moving a Boon from one spot to another, while never working on a gen, even when the last gen was ready to pop and she was at it! -- they lose their effectiveness.
When I play killer, it's rare to see a match that Boons -- almost always, COH -- aren't being run by at least one person. I've been recording match results, and through my last 136 survivor games, there was a Boon in play in slightly over 90% of those games, with multiple Boons being present in just under 40% of those games, so their introduction has definitely affected the Meta somewhat, at least through my experiences. I still think a Boon should be snuffable permanently -- which would give greater value to Hex: Pentimento -- but the jury is still out for me as to whether they're (meaning COH) an actual issue or not.
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@Sluzzy said:
Now imagine a solo survivor against a Blight with Ruin, Undying, and the broken Tinkerer.
Boons pale in comparison to that kind of advantage.
I don't have to imagine it -- I've played solo against it numerous times. And escaped numerous times against that killer/build. And often with the entire team escaping with me, or at least there being more than one survivor escaping with me. And frankly, while I'm a decent enough survivor, I'm not anything God-tier so ... 🤔
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/L4T7H29X2DFO/de055e8d-7848-47e5-b91e-46bbeb1793a6.png
Yeah not the best performance from anyone but he was just too good. Ggs to him. You can see me put up the least amount of points lol. Anyone else play against a YouTuber?
I've seen him play on his YT videos, and he's good. Seeing a match from someone else's perspective is always fun.
The biggest content creator I faced was Ohmwrecker, who isn't obviously a DBD-only player, but he's still good enough. I was playing Pig and ended up in Lery's -- he was a solo. I had two other people dead, found him for his death hook, but he Booped, and I let him live. I was nervous, guessing that he was streaming and had thousand of people potentially watching, so I didn't want to embarrass myself in the match. He wasn't on Twitch that night, but Caffeine (which didn't have VOD, so I couldn't watch back the match afterwards, unfortunately).
I've gone against a number of smaller TTV streamers, both as killer and survivor, and with the exception of one, they've actually all been nice. I'll usually drop in and leave a follow for the nice ones (and often get a follow back, which helps us both -- those interactions were very wholesome. The one exception was a 4-person squad, with a female TTV, who sent me to RPD right after it had released (they were all PC and presumably had played on the map during the PTB and knew the layout -- I was literally playing my first ever match on it, and I was lost constantly).
They destroyed me, but I when I went to give them a GG, the players from the team in their chat and the streamer weren't just mocking me, but they were using offensive slurs towards me as well. When I popped in, they all of a sudden backtracked and tried to play it off as them "just kidding around", but it was a completely negative experience -- the sad thing is, they had a few hundred people watching, so it wasn't a "one guy and his two buddies" type of situation. People like that streamer give all of the other nice ones out there a bad reputation, unfortunately.