ChiSoxFan11
ChiSoxFan11
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@Sluzzy said:
I commend the devs for fixing this and it is something that will really making the game more fair. Survivor that abused changing their resolutions to stretch everything so they can basically wallhack the killer at all tiles was never intended and this gave an unfair advantage. You always knew the survivors that abused this because you never could catch them at tiles no matter what. There was a clear difference between a native survivor and a stretched survivor.
Now the stretched will be brought down to everyone else, and they’ll be fewer teams and survivors that peep over walls and extend chases way longer than should have.
Killrates are going to dramatically increase.
They’ll be fewer tournament-like stretched teams in the fog that seem unstoppable. Killers will be winning even more than they were and I think this will give the devs the data they need to see that it is too hard to use what is on the maps (for the majority of survivors). Killers can down too quickly most of the time. Will we return to earlier map designs where we have 2 pallets at every jungle gym tile? The killer meta was already too strong even with this advantage. I think something will definitely need to be done with nerfing the killer meta and buffing maps again now that the stretched users won’t have an advantage to overcome it.
I commend you for acknowledging that stretched resolution is a problem that needed to be fixed. To be honest, when I saw who started the thread, I half-expected to see you decrying its removal, so my mistake and apologies in making that assumption.
That said, drawing conclusions from anything that happens from results occurring to stretched resolution players when this takes effect -- especially when there's no way to even know how many people were using it -- isn't going to portray an accurate representation of what is or isn't needed in the game. After all, you're talking about people who were gaining an unfair advantage to presumably win, and who won't have that crutch to use anymore. That's not indicative of the normal player experience.
As an analogy, I used to work in the casino industry. If a person playing Blackjack gained an unfair advantage by a dishonest dealer tipping off their hole card, that player would obviously win money. Take away that additional information and make them play without it, and they would obviously start losing more, perhaps substantially so. That wouldn't mean that the game of Blackjack was too "difficult" or needs "changes" because someone using something that's not part of regular play is suddenly deprived of it and suffers the consequences.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2815698#Comment_2815698
No what I believe is the reason for the player drops is the last year of just anti loop killers. I don't believe that MMR is the cause for players leaving because it's proven to be better than the last garbage ranking system. Also what makes a lot of sense is that the playerbase drops after every single October until around April and that's because it's a horror game where a ton of casual players just want to play a spooky game with their friends around Halloween time and then drop it, it happens every year. There are objectively more survivor players than killer players so it makes sense that there would be a sharper decrease in players because survivors are leaving, they're sick of not being able to play the game because of only new anti loop killers.
So wait -- now it's the anti-loop killers? And not all of the other tripe in your initial post? But wait, it's also because it's a seasonal game, and EVERY year there's drops in these months due to DBD being a "horror" game, which would make your entire reasoning off to begin with? (As if horror fans only want to play a horror game around October -- I'm a horror movie fan and watch them year-round, lol. My enjoyment of them doesn't magically curtail itself during months that don't start in "O". Seasonal difference due to weather, school and work schedules, and even the COVID-19 impact on people do impact who's doing what at any given time, but the "spooky game around Halloween" hypothesis is just plain silly.)
You're using supposition to make your argument. So am I, in a way, but what makes more sense: Hypothetically, all of these "survivor" players, that you can't factually quantify, are quitting over game mechanics, which also can't quantify, and other reasons that you can't quantify -- or that players in general are quitting over a SBMM system that was introduced at the time that a clear drop in players can be seen since that introduction, and a system which at this point, has incredibly few proponents who aren't collecting a paycheck from BHVR?
If we're throwing darts at a board without actual real evidence and trying to hit on a correct assessment, one of those hypothesis statements above at least has SOMEWHAT of a data trend (and the timing of something that was added to the game) to have it make real sense, and the other doesn't, so if I had to put money on either being true, I know which one I'd be betting on.
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I presume you saw the CoconutRTS video today where he detailed the drop in the player base over the last several months. Or if you claim you're unaware of that video, then you must be simply coincidentally looking at the Steam charts which -- gasp! -- do not distinguish between survivor players and killer players in who plays the game (or those who play both), making your claim sketchy, at least in any ability to back up your opening statement with any real facts to support it.
I can definitely presume you're missed the part where, whether you looked at the Steam charts or watched the above said video, the one thing that DOES tie in to any drop in the player base is the introduction of SBMM, not any of the things you claim. Inconvenient for your claims, but that's a conclusion that makes far more sense than whatever you're claiming here.
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2815140#Comment_2815140
How often you get games over 10 minutes?
A decent number, though I wouldn't be able to tell you what my average killer round averages. I do my best not to tunnel anyone, and I'm not camping hooks unless it's EGC, so my 3-4K's are almost always 10-12 hook contests. Plus, I give a lot of hatches, so there's always travel time looking for that in many of my games. I do have mych shorter matches -- I've 4K'ed in 5-6 minutes when the survivors have made catastrophic mistakes -- but it's super-rare I get clobbered in the "5 gens in 5 minutes" type of game.
I rarely play the "S-tier" killers (Nurse, Blight, Spirit) and play more Pig than any other killer, so who I play often lends itself to games that stretch out a little more.
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Sometimes, I wonder how many people actually want lengthier matches, win or lose.
I went against a pair of streamers a week or so ago. Played Pyramid Head, got 11 hooks and a 3K in a match that went right around 13 minutes -- it was a tense back and forth where all the gens did get done, and I had got the last hooks/cages on the 2nd and 3rd dead survivor when they popped the final gen in my face. I thought it was a really fun match that could have ended in a multiple person escape as easily as it did with the result I got.
One streamer wasn't live, but the other one was, so I ventured there to offer a GG and WP. I was surprised to hear them complaining that the match was "way too long and drawn out", which surprised me. Everyone got really good BP, the match result was in doubt the whole way, and there were plenty of chases and interactions with everyone, but it seemed like they didn't enjoy that. Maybe they wanted a 4-out in 6-7 minutes? It felt like that was the case, which considering that the queue time for them had to be around that length of time (it was a match in the middle of what is usually the longest survivor queues), seems strange to me, but to each their own, I guess.
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@Bwsted said:
Probably a white glyph challenge. It's 25k for escaping with the mirror, on top of whatever else you earned in the trial.
Thanks! I did the white glyph challenge myself (and escaped), but I don't remember my BP total (I think it was during the event, though, so a high total wouldn't have looked strange). That makes sense. 👍️
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Plaything has been a staple of my Pig build almost since the perk came out.
I've lost count how many times I've been chasing someone and run across an Oblivious survivor with a trap on their head trying to get to a Jigsaw box -- I've been as startled as they are, I imagine. Especially if those survivors have active traps, they're not going to be nearly as careful traversing the map -- or sitting on a box -- and I get a lot of easy downs in the process. (Using the Face Mask add-on to give survivors blindness -- which I do believe keeps them from seeing the aura of their totem -- is added help).
I think Plaything is a VERY underrated perk in general, but on the Pig, it feels exceptionally valuable. And as the only Hex perk that isn't in danger of being erased 20 seconds into a match (other than Pentimento), it's been very reliable for me -- I get value out of it pretty much every match I run it.
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Honestly, if someone is doing something subtle, then even if you have a ton of hours in the game and the experience to know when something seems "off", there's just no way to tell.
I've gone against killers who have magically found me in a place they had no business looking (no cues to bring them where I was). In those instances, I've assumed a perk (like Whispers) or an add-on (like a Wraith with All-Seeing equipped) and been utterly shocked when in the end game screen, nothing they were running would have led them to me. Was it a wall-hack, or was it simply game sense and a combination of a really good player with a lot of experience that was the reason? There's no way to tell, unfortunately. Heck, I played a Huntress round yesterday and yanked a Dwight out of a random locker when I went to reload -- I didn't have a clue he was hiding there, and what was incredibly good luck for me (and bad for him) easily could have looked like I was hacking somehow.
It's the same playing killer. I've gone against the obvious hackers already, but I've also faced survivors who seemed just a LITTLE bit too fast in chase (almost as if they had a permanent Hope equipped), or heals that go ridiculously fast without the aid of a Boon or Med-Kit or perk, or someone who's playing like they have vault build on but doesn't, or exit gates that seem to be opened far too quickly for someone not running a perk to help with it. Again, all subtle things that breed suspicion, but there's no way for me to be able to be certain.
In any case, it's the subtle cheating that worries me more than the obvious hackers.
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When you said "Hex totems are stronger than Boon totems" and "Maps are weak for survivors", your credibility -- if you had any -- went completely out the window, to be honest. Anyone who's not reaching from a biased standpoint to begin with and who's played the game on BOTH sides for a significant amount of time, recognizes both of those statements to be frankly erroneous, bordering on ridiculous.
Using kill rates isn't an argument either, as those stats aren't given with context. For example, the new player experience at survivor tilts heavily towards the killer, where as when players get more experience, that balance starts to shift.
I get to experience both sides of the game regularly. My escape rate -- and I'm not particularly good at important parts of the survivor experience -- is hovering right around a 60% rate, even as a solo. I don't keep meticulous stats as killer the way I do as survivor, but I get far more good results than bad when playing that role. That said, there are far more games that are essentially "unwinnable" from the killer side than there are when I play survivor (for the record, I almost never play Nurse, Blight, or Spirit, for various reasons, which if I did, might skew that perception).
The people on the forum who claim that the game is completely "unfair" when playing either survivor OR killer are usually exaggerating, or are victims to improperly working SBMM more than anything. Again, there are plenty of things that should be done to help the experience of the killer role -- there's a reason why survivor queues during prime time are lengthy and killer queues are instant -- and there are also things that could be done to improve the solo experience (some of which have been already discussed, like the HUD changes).
This game DOES favor the survivor role, however, the more hours people put into that role, and especially if we're talking about SWF. It's not as one-sided as some want to make it out to be, but it's definitely the less-stressful, often-more-fun, and arguably easier role to play in this game.
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Spawns are so easy to find now, I've removed Hexes from pretty much every build I run (with the exception of Plaything on Pig -- survivors can't cleanse that so easily).
Played a Huntress match tonight and made the mistake of running Ruin. 22 seconds into the match and it was gone. A survivor literally spawned on top of it.
Sigh. Back to the Land of Misfit Perks you go.
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@prettyboykiz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803666#Comment_2803666
Okay and I can do this all day too. BBQ and chili is OP. Killers have a speed boost that is wildy ridiculous that NO survivor can outrun it. We have to mend ourselves in a chase or die, we have to take traps off our head sometimes 4-5 times. So yeah I fo think killers have some advantages that are just not fair or that should be powered down
Congratulations on your very recent purchase of Dead By Daylight! We hope you'll enjoy the game and its wonderful horror dynamic and your matches in the Fog upcoming!
We're certain that as you begin to explore all of the different playstyles, you'll realize what is actually OP and what just seems to be to the brand new player (when I was brand new, I didn't even realize I was leaving marks behind me when I ran -- can you believe that?). Eventually, you'll get the hang of the game, though, and thrilling adventure awaits!
Sarcasm aside, BBQ is far from OP, and there are so many ways to counter it -- ways I learned as survivor in my first few weeks playing the game -- that even its tracking elements aren't as good as other perks (like Thrilling Tremors, for example. Even the new Dead Man's Switch gives tracking that can be comparable to BBQ now.)
It's stupidly easy to figure out when a killer has BBQ on, and even easier to play around it. If it wasn't for the BP, you'd see it on far fewer builds. Now that almost all of the killers I play regularly have all of the perks, I've yanked BBQ off of almost all of my killer builds, leaving it on only a couple for when I do need to farm for BP. In the current state of the game, having a perk slot that's dedicated half to BP farming is a recipe for losing matches.
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A three-gen is a situation that's simply part of the game. Smart killer players will force it if they need to (by not taking chases around an area of the map that they need to protect), and smart survivor players will do whatever they need to in order to prevent one from happening.
It's easier to keep from getting into a three-gen as a SWF, but even when I'm playing solo, I try to stay aware of where gens are being done. At the start of the match, if I see teammates working on a gen near my spawn point, I'll purposefully try to move to the other side of the map to work on a gen there. Once gens start to be completed, I'll try to work on a gen the furthest away from the gen that just popped -- if a killer isn't in a chase already, they'll often move in the direction of the gen that popped to find a new target, allowing the opportunity to work on a gen unhindered. It takes map awareness, but it can be done, even without a perk devoted to it.
Even a good three gen can be broken -- one of the longer games I played (against a streamer) was with a friend as a duo (and two random solos) against a Hag on Blood Lodge. We kept triggering traps and working on separate gens, getting a little progress on each before we finally got one done. The Hag had to finally commit to a chase, and three got out, even though they finally ended up with a kill (they had everyone on death hook at that point). It was a lengthy, but fun challenge -- and it's a part of the game that should stay.
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@Mandy said:
I think this just proves what I've been saying for the past few months, that the word toxic has lost meaning.
Left hand side, the only two things that are an issue there are 1. DC'ing and 2. Body Blocking (hostage taking) - both of those are against our game rules.
Not everything that's unhealthy for the game can be defined by a simple, narrow definition of "it's against the game rules" and nothing else.
Poor sportsmanship from people playing both roles does push people away from playing the game, both new players and old. I personally know people who've tried DVD and gave it up quickly, due to the VERY unfriendly new player experience, both the steep learning curve, the grind they'd face, and the VERY unpleasant interactions they had with their opponents in their brief experiences.
BHVR SHOULD care about that, but they either ignore it, or in subtle ways, encourage it through inaction. That's their decision, since only the all-important $ seems to be their focus (I could give a litany list of BHVR ignoring their player base and countless missteps made over the two years I've played, but we'd be here all day, and I'd probably get banned, so we won't travel down that road).
If your game's community eventually gets such a bad reputation that new players start drying up due to that reputation, then I assume BHVR would eventually address the behavior of their community (post-game chat harassment would be a start, but judging by the amount of stories we hear here, as well as what you can find on media platforms, that's something that's not addressed currently and likely won'tbe in the future).
But if history of other companies far reaching past just gaming ones are an indication, by that point, it'll be too late to stop the death spiral a company finds itself in. BHVR would be far from the first company to suffer that fate, and it wouldn't be the last. That would be a sad fate for those of us who enjoy DBD, but hubris is a dangerous thing when people making decisions can't recognize it in themselves.
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@Junylar said:
You are lucky it's only now you found it out. For me it was obvious since the day I learned what SWF stands for. No good person ever plays SWF, and this simple fact of life is as old as the game itself. SWFs are only here to bully, they don't really care who.
That's an untrue generalization. I play as a 2-person SWF often, and my friend and I are always altruistic towards our teammates. There are definitely toxic SWF groups that give everyone else a bad name, but that's not the absolute rule.
That said, when I play killer, it's astounding how many times my matches swing in my favor over survivors screwing over their teammates somehow.
To the OP, that streamer should be embarrassed, but I'm sure they have no self-awareness about their behavior. Glad the Pig gave you a well-deserved escape.
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@dictep said:
I only see survs dc when the Killer camp/tunnel. If I see a killer tunnel or camp at the beginning when he kills the first surv I run to him and point to the hook, and I kill myself. I don’t want to play with this kind of people. If he wants an easy game, I give it to him
I wish I lived in your reality. I've lost count the number of times my friend and and I, playing as a 2-person SWF, have watched one (or both) of our random teammates DC because they were found first (and quit before they were even hooked), or because they couldn't pull off their "YouTube montage" Sabo or flashlight play and ended up on the ground next to their partner going up on a hook. Or because it was a [insert random killer here]. While I have seen DC's by fellow survivors on death hook who were legitimately tunneled, the number who've done so for no reason probably equals that number or exceeds it.
When I play killer, it always seems to be the cocky, flashlight-clicking, teabagger who gets outplayed and downed who rage quits. Or the funny ones that happen when I play Plague and someone immediately rage quits -- and I see in the endgame screen that they were running COH, lol.
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@VideoGameMage said:
Why should survivors let you have one hook? That's not their objective, and your not entitled to survivors going easy on you for not having hooked anyone yet. I don't go easy on the survivors making multiple mistakes (ez pressure) so I don't expect survivors to go easy on me when I'm not playing optimally.
I don't think "reasonable" players expect either hooks or escapes to be handed to them. And there's a big difference between "going easy" on someone, or going into super try-hard mode when the game is already over and in hand (mass slugging at 5 gens when you have 8 hooks and everyone is already on death hook, or there's been a DC and the match is pre-ordained to be a 3K/4K unless the killer goes AFK for 10 minutes, or mass body-blocking/sabo/flashlighting/etc. when even one hook is going to be followed by the last gen popping, the gates getting opened immediately, and BT/DS carrying everyone to an easy escape).
The happy medium is to play the game "normally", but not everyone does that. I don't expect anyone to do that either, whether I play killer or survivor -- I play to win, as I assume my opponents are doing -- but during an event, when said "normal" play can net you the same result you'd have if you super-sweated (either a 4-out escape or a 4K) but with far more BP, I always wonder why people would rather the former rather than the latter, especially from the survivor side, where a super-quick match means you likely waited in a longer queue than the time of your match. (Non-event times or games without 4-5 BP offerings are a different thing altogether).
The match I described above was against an ultra-sweaty squad that essentially wasted their anniversary cakes -- I can't remember what their exact BP totals were, but I remember they definitely weren't anything someone would have been happy with. And it wasn't like they didn't know it -- the streamer was talking about how low ranked I was, and how the game was a mismatch from the very beginning -- so it wasn't like there was even the slightest thought in their mind that they weren't all getting out.
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@Laluzi said:
Except I do consider that as being nasty, the same as I do a killer that camps/tunnels at 5 gens.
I mean, I don't hate it when a team tries to save the first guy I catch, that's fair play, but I'll be peeved if I get my first down at 2/3 gens left and the whole team comes running over to stop me, or if they insist on trying to block every damn down I get. Then I take the nice guy gloves off and the situation generally resolves itself (or it doesn't and I suffer screaming for the next 15 minutes.)
Way back during the 4th anniversary, when I was still a relatively new player, I used an anniversary cake and ended up in a lobby with multiple Twitch streamers (a 4-person SWF, as it turned out), all of whom were Rank 1's (I'm a much better player now, but at the time, I was a green/low purple Rank killer and it showed), and THEY all brought cakes, making 5 total in the lobby.
I played pre-buff Wraith, got a terrible map, and it all went downhill from there. I was run around by multiple survivors, they powered through gens like crazy, and I knew the match was a lost cause pretty early -- I just wasn't on their level. I FINALLY downed someone with one gen left (they had a 5th gen 99'ed) and tried to get one hook for a stack of BBQ at least -- and I got swarmed by the other three, all body-blocking and flashlight aiming until I dropped the survivor. At that point, I did something that I literally never do -- I DC'ed.
I went to one of the streamers channels afterwards and still said "GG and WP -- looks like I was completely overmatched. Would have liked at least one hook, but I guess that would have been asking too much." The streamer seemed surprised and asked, "Why did you DC -- there were 5 cakes in the lobby?" My reply was something along the lines of, "You all had the game won easily (they all had DS, and multiple were running BT, so even if I had been a tunneler, I couldn't have done anything to stop a 4-person escape). You couldn't even allow me one hook before swarming me like the game's outcome depended on it. Whatever BP I was going to get wasn't going to matter at that point." The streamer went silent -- I think they might have actually felt bad at that point -- and I wished them a "Good luck during the rest of the event" in their chat, and that was that.
I'm a far better killer now. I don't always know if the person/team trying body-blocking/flashlight/sabo strats are actually really good at it and are going to cost me the game, or if they're potatoes who've seen too many YouTube videos and are going to get themselves killed quickly. I tend not to go hardcore slugging or "try-hard" early in the match, but I still remember that game back then (and similar teams I've faced since), and when you start showing me you want to deny me hooks, I'm going to take my gloves off whenever that happens and let things fall where they may.
That match is also another reason I almost never bring in Anniversary cakes or BPS in as killer anymore (Envelopes have been an exception, since they're limited-time usage).
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-- I started playing this game when COVID-19 shut my workplace down. I had NEVER played an online video game before, so DBD was my first. I had watched other people play it on YT, but that was the extent.
-- I am definitely one of the oldest people who plays the game. Without revealing my actual age, let's just say that the huge majority of people I play against, I'm old enough to be their parent (or in some case, grandparent)
-- I had no concept of why anyone who purchase cosmetics for a character when I started playing. I convinced a friend to play with me initially, and my exact words to him at the time was, "Why would anyone waste money to look different? It's not changing how the game plays!". This was coming from someone who now has bought cosmetics on pretty much every survivor and killer in the game, and multiples on almost all of those. So much for what I thought then, lol. I also have never used Shards for outfits.
-- I have the least experience, and I'm the least capable, playing the "S-tier" killers. I'm still a baby Nurse (I play on console, FWIW), I almost never play Blight, and I rarely play Spirit. That said, I never had any incentive for the achievements, until the friend mentioned above gave me good-natured grief over not having any Adepts. Now, I proudly have all of the Killer Adepts (and nearly all of the trophies).
-- I can be ultra-competitive, but when I play killer, I give a LOT of hatches or doors, and I'm always willing to farm as Pig when someone Boops the Snoot. I can alternate from ruthless to embracing a meme literally in the same match at times.
-- I have no idea if I'm actually good at the game or not, half the time. My survivor skill has definitely improved, but I'm capable of really bad plays at times. As killer, I get spun far too often, and I mix in really great plays with completely potato ones literally in the span of seconds of the same match. I have really good game sense, but my eyesight and hearing aren't always the best. My results as killer and survivor are normally really good, but what does any of that mean? I'm somewhere in that great expanse of "total noob" and "Otz-level" player that the vast majority of people are in, I guess.
-- I refuse to bring in flashlights as survivor, simply because I can't use them to save my (or anyone else's) life. I rarely bring items at all into a match (unless it's part of a daily or Rift challenge), and I'm a hoarder/collector -- I've made sure that every survivor has at least one of a item/offering that's part of an event.
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I have never waited 20 minutes for a killer match, no matter what time of day. I played killer for 5 hours last night, and I didn't wait a total of 20 minutes combined over that entire period (every queue was instant). Even in the morning, the longest wait I have for a killer round is maybe a minute, and that might be stretching it.
Whenever I have a queue, either as survivor or killer, that seems to be taking abnormally long, I'll exit back to the main screen and re-queue in a lobby -- sometimes, I've had a lobby that will just bug out. That usually fixes the issue. I'd say that's what was happening to the OP, if it wasn't happening over multiple days.
As mentioned, if the OP has crossplay off, that could be the answer. I'm on console, and if crossplay is off, that makes queue times go out of whack.
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I ran the perk as a test in KYF lobbies, and it was incredibly abusable on so many maps, it wasn't funny. Tried it out as a solo and got multiple escapes through wiggling. Ran it as a solo and ended up against a poor Clown on Ormond who had to deal with 2 No Mither players who kept running to the upstairs of the main building and either wiggled off or picked themselves up. Lots of "fun" for everyone.
As killer, I've been playing around it when I see someone is running it. The current state of the perk is a lot like old OOO -- potentially useful in solo, but completely abusable in coordinated SWF. This change sounds like a positive one.
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I play both sides, and I play both a LOT. And it's definitely worth it.
I'm on console and have messages off, so that eliminates any potential salt I get from someone I go against, so that's a positive. If you play killer, having post-game chat disabled or a way to avoid interactions with your opponents will go a long way towards making the experience a better one.
It's challenging to learn -- when I first started playing killer, I was terrible and got destroyed pretty handily until I got better. But the satisfaction of doing well at the role -- knowing that your result is largely going to be based on what you do, with no one else to fall back on to blame -- is worth the time it takes to improve. There's also never a dull moment playing this role -- you will constantly be doing something from the beginning of the match to the end, and that's fun in itself.
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Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance is one of the better designed perks that have been introduced in the last year. It's strong, but it only is strong if the killer is both constantly downing and hooking survivors AND if RNG is in their favor and the Scourge hooks are in the area where the survivors are downed. If a killer player isn't getting downs fast enough, then the perk isn't going to stop gens from getting finished. Since there's only 4 hooks, if they spawn all together on one part of the map and survivors go down where the killer can't use them, then the perk isn't going to give a benefit. Even the information aspect of it can be countered -- once you realize the killer is running it and someone goes down, letting up off of the gen will deny that information to the killer (which I've seen very good survivors do).
Is it strong? Yes. Is it a game-winner just by running it? Absolutely not. Strong perks do not automatically warrant nerfing on either side.
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@Darkskies said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2780204#Comment_2780204
Agitation seems to make the wiggles seem more harsh for some reason on its own but definitely appreciate the mad grit iron grasp gaming 🐷💖
I play tested builds with a friends on racoon city if I could counter the library with the build you suggested and I did but I went down the stairs rather than dropping down ... They really need to put a hook in the library to be honest tho because I barley made it I could not when brake out was in play .
Yep -- I was there. On a map like RPD, if the killer isn't running Agitation + Iron Grasp, a hook just isn't happening (and in our tests, as stated, Breakout made even getting down the stairs impossible).
I also play-tested it in a KYF lobby tonight (where EVERYONE was running some form of Boil Over/Breakout/Hook offerings/Map offerings). It wasn't just those maps, as anything with a main building drop -- Coal Tower, Glenvale, Purgation Temple, just to name a few -- had the same issues. Even a basic hill on the Temple map got me a wiggle off when the person playing killer didn't go off of it cleanly.
Trolling each other in a KYF lobby is one thing, and the testing definitely showed where the issues are -- having it happen in a live lobby would have been a lot less fun.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779323#Comment_2779323
Those killers don't have very bad basekits. If you look at Pig in particular, she is in the top of most deadliest killers.
As a Pig player, I'll second what someone else said and state that her kill rate is absolutely bumped up by players who are new to the game and don't understand what the RBT even does (much like Pinhead's kill rates have been bumped up due to new players not knowing what the Puzzle Box is, or why it needs to be solved -- the game is VERY unforgiving to new players in many ways).
While I'm normally getting very solid survivors in my Pig matches, the glory that is current SBMM -- and the shortage of killers -- means I do get some very inexperienced players showing up in my lobbies more often than I should. In one recent match, I had an Adam die to his active trap because he was working on a generator(!) with it on -- and it wasn't even the last gen (it was the the 2nd or 3rd gen their team finished, so it wasn't even the NEXT to last gen). He literally died to the trap seconds after he popped the gen. Based on their perk loadout in the endgame screen, they looked to be relatively new to the game. I'd like to claim that's the only time I've seen something like that over a significant time playing Piggie, but it isn't -- not even close. Even experienced survivors will occasionally do risky things they shouldn't (setting up a Boon and healing, bodyblocking a hook, etc.) with an active trap, assuming it'll be easy to get off -- and then unlucky RNG and a key in the last box across the map ends up with them dead.
Pig isn't as bad as many people like to claim she is, but let's not go using the kill rates to make wild assumptions, or else I'll make the equally erroneous assumption that your favorite killer to play has the worst base kit in the game using those same numbers, which we both know is obviously not true.
ETA: You also left out her very low pick rate -- only 5 killers are selected less than she is: Pinhead, Twins, Freddy, Hag, and the Deathslnger (who might as well be tied with her in pick rate). The easy assumption should be that another reason her kill rate is as high as it is, is that the few people who DO play her have actually gotten good with her, leading to a better kill rate than let's say, Huntress, who clearly is a stronger killer, but is the most-picked killer, and has presumably people playing her who are learning, or not very good with her.
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@GannTM said:
I still feel like I’m having fun.
It must just be you and me then, lol -- I'm still having fun as well.
Is COH annoying as heck (and possibly still broken -- by the stats I've been keeping, I see it in 91% of my matches, and multiple Boons in 40%+)? Yes -- but I manage to play around it well enough, and it's not necessarily costing me matches.
Is the new Boil Over potentially busted, and something that probably shouldn't have gone live with the number of maps that have locations it could be abused in? Probably, but again, I've only run into a handful of squads with dedicated builds to make it work as a team -- while I've seen the perk a TON in my matches, for the most part, I've adjusted my strategy to work around it.
Are SWF's still problematic? Sure -- but that's not going away, nor should it.
Is toxicity bad in this game? Absolutely, but I thankfully have to deal with very little of it, as a console player who has messages off and who doesn't get to see any nonsense that shows up in any post-game chat. I feel for those who are hit with hate messages and worse -- the offenders in those cases should be punished, as there's no place for those type of things over a video game.
I do pretty well playing killer, far more good results than bad ones, I get tilted at times over what I consider "bad sportsmanship" (classless winners and sore losers), but I try and tell myself that the person acting that way is probably under the age of 18 (or has the maturity level of someone that age) and isn't worth stressing over (again, this is referring to in-game activity, and not the post-game/out-of-game stuff that, as I said, deserves a ban hammer for the offender).
I enjoy the game, flaws and all. I understand that other people are frustrated for different reasons, and I sympathize -- in those instances, stepping away for a while is probably the best course of action, as no one should do something they're not enjoying. Maybe I might reach that point in the future, but for now, the game is more fun for me than it has been at any time since I started playing 2 years ago, even if that puts me in the minority.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2778855#Comment_2778855
So far, in my 289 games, we've seen NOED at a rate of about 26%.
In my somewhere-around-200 games, NOED is being used in around 14% of my matches.
Not discounting your results at all, but it's interesting to see the difference between what you've seen and what I have. I wonder if it's a product of what's still small sample sizes for both of us (considering the tens of thousands of matches that are being played over the time we've probably both been compiling numbers), and/or if an actual usage rate on the perk is somewhere in between the two of our results. It's one of those things that would be an interesting number to be confirmed by the devs, but I doubt we'll see that, unfortunately.
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It's definitely a refreshing change from the Anniversary, where items seemed to be incredibly hard to come by. Kudos to the devs for making this change for this event, and hopefully this will stay the same for future events as well.
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I've run across a large number of TTV's, and for almost all of them, they've been normal people, just having fun, and no more "toxic" than the non-TTV players I come across in my games. I usually will pop into their chats after games to drop a follow and wish them a GG and good luck in their future matches. I've only had two TTV's that I really have had "bad" experiences with (and one of those wasn't bad, as much as it was funny).
Bad sportsmanship and immaturity in and out of game is a condition of a particular person, and not the letters in their screen name,
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I posted this for someone else before, so I'll cut and paste it here:
As someone who plays The Pig a LOT, a few thoughts -- other Pig players experience with her will obviously vary, but there's always more than one way to play a killer successfully. A lot of good advice has already been given in this thread -- my own experiences are here can be taken for what they're worth, simply one player's experience.
-- You're gifted with an innate in-game slowdown in the form of your traps, so use them. Some Pig players like to save them, but I start busting them out immediately. Nothing worse than having the last gen pop, and you still have a trap left that's been rendered useless. Survivors will, for the most part, start searching boxes immediately, even if their trap isn't active, so that's a survivor that's NOT working on a generator. That slowdown is invaluable in a game where gens can go by so quickly.
-- That said, additional slowdown perks for gen regression are useful, if almost necessary, to hang with coordinated Red Rank squads. Corrupt paired with Pain Resonance -- one of the best killer perks added to the game in a while -- can work, though PR is subject to some RNG. I used to run Ruin paired with Undying, but the Boon meta and terrible totem spawns almost every map made me abandon those builds. I do run Hex: Plaything, however, with her now -- that's a terribly underrated perk in general, and it almost never fails to help me sneak up on a survivor and get a cheeky down at some point in the match. BBQ with her isn't bad, mainly to reduce the BP grind, but Enduring or Brutal Strength is a 4th good perk since you'll be eating through pallets a lot, or Save The Best For Last (since you can save stacks by using your Ambush Attack on the Obsession). Sloppy Butcher isn't bad either, as survivors who take longer healing won't be searching boxes or working on gens, though again, the current COH meta has made that less viable. The new Dead Man's Switch is also an option, as any additional slowdown you can get is good for you.
-- Stealth is not her strength, but it still can be useful. Her terror radius doesn't go away immediately like Ghostface, and after you uncrouch, there's a brief period that it takes to come back. She moves painfully slow while crouched, so while it's okay to use it to move around, you have to be selective -- you don't want to be crossing the entire map while crouched. I get a lot of cheeky hits using her crouch to stealth back to a generator that I've chased multiple survivors off of, assuming someone has gone back to it. You don't have to use her Ambush attack in those instances -- using her stealth simply to get close to a survivor and in position to land a hit before they can reach a pallet or window is often enough. There are many matches where I barely use her stealth at all and are still successful with her.
-- Thought a lot of people want to label it as useless, I find her ambush attack is VERY underrated at loops that aren't large ones. If you can break line of sight -- and even better if you can get into the pallet -- you can turn it into a no-win for the survivor if they hesitate and don't run immediately away. Here's a great example of how I'll land that type of hit:
https://youtu.be/YKD_e1RxhYkIf you think survivors are anticipating you using the Ambush at a loop, you can also FAKE using her Ambush Attack as well, since her roar telegraphs it (something that it would be nice if that would be changed down the line). You can crouch and snort, faking that you're charging the Ambush Attack, then immediately pop back up after a survivor has run from what might have been a safe tile for them and land a hit while they're in the open scrambling to another tile.
-- Her best add-ons are probably still the Combat Straps, which are a common that reduce her crouch time, though I've been using the toxin that makes survivors exhausted while wearing a RBT -- no pesky Dead Hards for them! A lot of her add-ons have been changed recently, so there's new combinations worth trying. The Video Tape with Rules Set No. 2 is spicy, especially if you end up on an indoor map like RCPD or Midwich. The Tampered Timer/Crate of Gears was deadly before their nerf, and it still might be good for the occasional head pop. Amanda's Secret is similar to Scratched Mirror Myers (you get only 2 traps since the buff and wallhacks when crouched), but you need an indoor map to really make that work optimally (Hawkins used to be the best place to run that build, but any indoor map will do). Some of her other add-ons to help with her Ambush Dash are also worth running.
-- Speaking of traps, the best way to start a round is to get a down and a trap on a survivor's head before the 1st gen pops. If you can do that, you'll have immediate pressure on. While it might be tempting to chase after a trapped survivor, that's NOT the way to play her. The trap IS the pressure, not you chasing after the person who's trapped. RNG can sometimes be cruel -- it's frustrating to see everyone getting their traps off immediately sometimes -- but that's still time they have to do something OTHER than work on a gen, which gives you additional time to get the downs you need to win.
-- The exception to the above rule is when you come across someone on a Jigsaw box, it's always worth it to harass them off of it, even if you don't commit to chasing them. They lose all progress on the box, and if it chases them all the way to another box somewhere else, even better. If, while chasing someone, you run across someone searching a box who's injured, downing them and continuing your chase can provide a ton of pressure.
-- Finally, players are going to want to meme with you when you play The Pig. I honor every Boop of the Snoot by letting that person live -- I've even let whole teams farm who are willing to Boop out the gate -- but that's not a requirement. If you don't want to meme with your survivors, a quick attack will let them know you mean business, lol.
I'm not an "expert" by any measure, but I have played hundreds of rounds as her, and I've made it to Rank/Grade 1 playing a majority of matches as her. She can compete, even against very good survivors, and she's a lot of fun to play.
Hope some of that helps -- and good luck playing The Pig! 🙂
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No. No to all of that.
" the survivor shouldnt have to be running up and down the map just trying to find a **** box that unlocks the trap"
That's the secondary objective when you face a Pig, something that actually means you won't spend a match against a competent Pig player holding M1 on a gen the entire game. The traps are a form of game slowdown for The Pig that is desperately needed for someone who's a basic M1 killer (except for the Ambush Dash), and it's a mechanism that would be nice for other weaker killers on the roster to have something similar.
"the killer should[n't] have to rely on luck so that the survivor doesn't get the trap off"
People who play The Pig know that it's not about the survivors getting the trap off -- barring very bad luck, or a complete misplay by survivors (or possibly add-ons like TT/COG or the new Video Tape/Rules Set), a Pig player EXPECTS that the traps will come off. Again, it's about slowing the gens down by forcing survivors to do a secondary objective, not about head pops.
In no scenario are the traps game-breaking. Really good survivors, or competent ones facing a struggling Pig, will work around the traps and will have no problem completing the gens and leaving. Really good Pigs will use the slowdown of the traps, juggle who to pressure when traps are active, and will still be able to win -- and without tunneling someone with a trap (doing so being, usually, the wrong thing to do). Luck on traps can help, but even bad RNG is still stall time.
"If the survivor gets the trap off first try that screws over the killer because their ability is useless now"
Again, that's still time that the trap kept that person from presumably working on gens. Not useless at all, even if a trap comes off on first try.
"if the survivor gets it off on their last try, they spent precious time on boxes when they needed to be completing generators"
That's kind of the point, and again, competent survivors will still be able to escape regardless. Unless you want to play gen repair simulator, that is.
"Overall a bad experience on both sides and the killer needs a rework"
You're entitled to your opinion, but a lot of people who put time into her like playing The Pig, and a lot of people like going against her, because the experience is different than the huge majority of the killer roster. She could use some help with her stealth (the worst of the stealth killers) and further help with her Ambush Dash (an underrated part of her kit that, used properly, can be very effective), but she definitely does NOT need a complete rework.
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@TAG said:
What do you do when it is the game, though? :P
Honestly? I do get frustrated, and I've definitely gotten super aggravated before at some mechanic in the game that felt unfair. I have tried, however, to look harder at where I'm making my own mistakes, and usually I find that it's me screwing up something that's the reason when I'm losing. Some "unfair" elements of gameplay are here to stay, and if I use them as a crutch for why my matches end the way they do, I won't get better.
I do understand why people get frustrated (see: current Boil Over issues or SBMM problems). I'm not knocking those people at all -- it's human nature and understandable to do so.
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@Sepex said:
That title was deep.
I did take psychology and philosophy classes in college, lol. A really long time ago, but still. 😄
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I've seen it in more matches over the last two nights than I probably had in the last year combined before the buff, and that's not an exaggeration. A couple of times, it was being run with a teammate either running a sabo build or Breakout. But more often, even if the player was part of a SWF, it seemed like the person running Boil Over was using it independent of anything else to aid in their wiggling off.
For the most part, I played around it and didn't have too many issues with it. Had a Jane wiggle off on Midwich without me even dropping because there just weren't any hooks close, but eventually I downed her closer to one and that was that. Played against a Feng on the Eyrie of Crows map and watched her run upstairs in the main building when injured, and I pretty much knew what was happening -- the moment I saw the Boil Over icon show up, I dropped her and went on my way. After downing her a second time up there and doing the same, she finally got the hint and dropped to the ground herself.
The only real trolling I ran into was a Nancy on RCPD who immediately headed to the top of the library to a dead end when I injured her -- as I was chasing her, I immediately thought "She must have Boil Over". Again, the moment I saw the icon after downing her, I dropped her upstairs and went after other survivors. Once someone picked her up, I found her again quickly, and back up to the top of the library she went for me to down her again and leave her again. Eventually, she ended up bleeding out. On one hand, she denied me a hook, but considering that she spent the bulk of her match slugged at the top of the library, that was -- fun? -- for her I guess? I never bleed anyone out, but there was no reason for me to even attempt to get her down from there when I knew it was going to be impossible.
As others have said, it's an annoyance if run by a solo, and it's a perk that you'll need to play around as killer once you know a survivor has it. The wiggle bonus for the drops should be reduced, or hooks put in places like the top of the library so that situations where a hook is impossible doesn't exist. The more people run it, the more killers will end up slugging, which is usually not enjoyable for survivors when it happens, so why a perk was changed to encourage that, only the "infinite wisdom" of the devs would know.
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Be humble in victory, and graceful in defeat.
Sadly, few people these days seem to grasp that.
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Playing the Pig, very few use her Ambush Dash effectively, which is a shame, since I think it's definitely an underrated part of her power. I've far from mastered her, but two things that have made me better using her Dash:
-- When chasing a survivor to a pallet loop that isn't one of the gargantuan ones that aren't worth trying a dash to begin with, you obviously want to get inside the pallet itself, so you actually want the survivor to have a little distance so they DON'T pre-drop the pallet. When I go for an Ambush Dash in those cases, I'm already starting to crouch as I'm moving into the pallet, rather than getting in the pallet itself first before crouching. Once you get the timing down, you can literally glide to the middle of the pallet as you're crouching, ready to charge the dash, at that point, lowering the time the survivor has to react to your movement and increasing your chances at confusing them and landing the attack.
-- Reading survivor reactions to your Dash is important. Smart survivors often know to run from a pallet loop once they realize a Pig is charging their Ambush Attack. If you know -- or think -- that a survivor is going to bail from a loop in that case, you can start to charge the Ambush but then cancel it -- the Pig will still sound the beginning of her roar, and if the survivor hears it and runs thinking you're dashing at the loop, you can come out of your crouch and quickly catch them out in the open away from safety, before they can get to another loop.
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@Laluzi said:
I care more about the MMR because it dictates what my experience playing the game will be. If it's too low, I'll be massacring confused newbies, or getting massacred by confused newbies that crouch in the corners of the map all game. If it's too high, I'll be constantly wrangling with Haddonfield/Badham/The Game sweat squads and I'll be stuck with Nurse/Blight Simulator every survivor match.
Getting BP once a month is nice, but I'd rather have a good experience the rest of the month, you know?
Pretty much this.
I get a LOT of BP normally just through regular play, though the grind definitely needs fixing. But inconsistent matchmaking due to a flawed SBMM system is incredibly frustrating. I played last night and alternated between 3-4 person Iri squads that were playing as if their actual life depended on getting gens done in 5 minutes or less and teams that had players who were multiple Ash IV level players running 0-1 perks who, I actually think, might have been playing their first ever DBD game (at least, by the way they acted, it seemed that way). That type of gameplay wasn't fun for anyone involved.
On a different note, I want to point out that I see your posts on a lot of subjects -- and I'm always impressed by your well-thought out take on things in the game. Just wanted to throw that out there. 👍️
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It's almost never worth it to wait over someone for 60 seconds if you think they have DS. If I down someone by chance that I know was recently off of hook, I'll leave them slugged and go about my business elsewhere.
I make two exceptions -- at the very end of the match, but only if that particular survivor BM'ed me at some point and I want to guarantee they die, or occasionally, if a survivor baits me to eat it and the match is so much in my favor that I can afford the wait it out (for example, body-blocking me with their BT to keep me from going after the person who's done an unsafe unhook, then jumping into a locker right in front of me, even though I'm doing everything to NOT go after them -- I definitely have checked the clock on my recording to wait that 60 seconds out and punish that).
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@Lat0 said:
It's 0 fun going against those killers. People that think otherwise either main one of them or are low mmr
You're entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong (the first part of your statement is not a universal truth, and the latter is 100% absolutely incorrect).
I LOVE playing against a capable Nurse, since it's a welcome change from playing survivor in the usual "Run pallet to pallet and hold W" or "Loop this strong tile forever until the killer breaks the pallet, then rinse and repeat and the strong tile chained next to it" meta style that's so prevalent. Being able to dodge and outguess a Nurse that's actually good (usually, by being unpredictable and using LOS blockers to confuse them with your movement) is arguably one of the best feelings -- and most fun -- I can get during a survivor round. Playing against a good Blight or Spirit is similar. While all three killers are all very powerful, that's kind of the point -- if I want easy mode, I'll go play against Tutorial Trapper.
And I rarely play any of those three killers, preferring Pig -- but if I wanted to make erroneous assumptions like you did, I'm sure you'll say that they're a problematic killer too. And while no one knows what their MMR actually is, I DO know that, having kept stats on my last 180+ games now as survivor, I'm escaping right around 60% of my matches (almost all either as a 2-person SWF or as a Solo). If that makes me "low MMR", then I shudder to think what the escape rates at "high MMR" must be.
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As a console player, I'd rather see them work on game issues than an unnecessary chat feature. My opinion only, but the game's toxicity level would be greatly reduced if postgame chat across the board was eliminated entirely.
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@Sluzzy said:
I think I know what Patrick is trying to say but he worded it wrong. His programmer brain is showing here so strongly. In terms of their algorithms that are judging MMR and to keep it simple as possible, he must have win conditions. Imagine something can keep track of chases and determining skills from that. But most importantly I think they don’t want a system that is giving a survivor a win for dying, which the objective is to survive. Same for killer, I think they want killers to climb MMR that can kill.
It would seem weird to have all 5 players climb MMR if all four escape, or all four die. Somebody has to win.
Someone has to win, but why does "winning" have to be the be-all-end-all of how players are ranked, if there's going to be an SBMM system in place?
The game clearly can measure other elements of gameplay -- the Emblem system (as flawed as it can be at times) does this. Wouldn't a better system be one that measure not only kills/escapes, but other aspects as well?
As a sports fan, I had to laugh at the terrible sports analogy that was used in the Q&A (the hockey one). By that devs' logic, Mary Hardin-Baylor -- a Division III college football team that went 15-0 this past season -- is a "better" team than Georgia because Georgia "only" went 14-1 by comparison and had fewer wins. The absurdity of that comparison should illustrate how flawed the devs take on their own MMR system is, and their doubling down on it in the face of increasing complaints from all sides that it simply isn't working is troubling.
I understand the idea that they want to keep it simple, but is what we have now better than what we had before? In the beginning, I would have said "yes", but watching queue times take precedence constantly over everything else -- and the dramatic inconsistency I see in my games both as survivor and killer -- I'd say "no" now.
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I never have camped the hatch as killer. Even if the doors aren't favorable, I'm not going to sweat it too much -- I'd rather move the game to its conclusion rather than get into a stalemate over a final kill.
As survivor, I've had a Wraith do it to me. I went to a door, suspecting that the Wraith was standing on the hatch, cloaked, for me to show. After nothing happened for a while, I eventually went to a gen and started working on it -- hatch was closed the minute I popped the gen, lol.
Survivors who wait on hatch until the killer shows up solely to BM them are the worst. I spectated a match I'd died in as a solo -- the Feng, after we were all dead, found the hatch using Left Behind. Rather than run and jump out for the escape, they detoured over to a pallet to slam it, so they could let the killer watch them jump in (I'm guessing). Problem for them was that it was an Oni who had their power -- the killer rushed to hatch and slammed it in their face before downing them -- I laughed so hard, I dropped my controller. Instant Karma is a beautiful thing. 🤣
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@lauraa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763303#Comment_2763303
Soon TM we will get killer bots and we will get rid of the killer role
Let's hope not -- that will be the end of the game. If the devs are, even in the back of their minds, thinking that implementing that bots would solve bigger issues regarding queue times and the number of people playing each role rather than addressing the actual issues in the game, then that's a scary thought.
They will NEVER be able to make an AI for this game that could replicate the play of an actual human on the other end of the game. No fancy cosmetics, no BP incentives -- nothing -- will get someone to play survivor if the equivalent of the tutorial Trapper is what they're going against in anything resembling a majority of their matches (this isn't discounting a practice mode -- that should definitely be a thing -- but AI, either as survivors or the killer, for the main experience of the game is a recipe for disaster).
There would be no challenge in it, no real satisfaction in winning that type of game, no real fun -- and for the more juvenile members of the community, no opportunity to troll or bully someone who isn't actually there. People would abandon the game in droves if that ever came to pass.
The developers SHOULD understand that all players, even those playing the minority or more unpopular role, need to be placated if the game is going to stay strong. Then again, I've lost count of the number of companies I've worked for in my life who had obvious paths they should have taken to be successful and ignored them to plunge headlong into ruin to think that BHVR would be any different.
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@Sluzzy said:
More proof. Imagine nerfing CoH, a perk that gives the survivor a secondary objective to give you only a slightly better self-care, but a perk like Ruin, NOED, Tinkerer (with no cooldown) is not nerfed. Perks that literally do the job for the killer. But a perk that the survivor has to avoid the primary objective, in order to get a better self-care.... is nerfed.
NOED, Bubba, Blight not nerfed despite often complained about.
I was already seeing less CoH, about the only one of the boon perks used, now it might never be used so killer mains will complain about the next perk.
I promise you, survivor nerfs won't stop until they remove sprinting.
Horrifically killer sided.
I've been keeping statistics of my survivor matches for a little while now (and will continue to do so -- I love stats, and now that I've started doing it, it's something easy to keep up with).
Over my last 180 survivor matches now (the large majority of which have been 2-person SWF, with solo rounds being the 2nd most-common matches), I've seen a whopping 16 total that did NOT have a Boon totem as part of the survivor team's loadout -- less than 9% of those matches . In 72 of those matches, there were 2 or more Boons being run (as in, multiple survivors running them, not one person running multiple Boons) -- that's 40% of all matches (and always a COH somewhere in the mix).
That doesn't really deviate much from my experience as killer, where the matches where there isn't a Boon in play somewhere are in the huge minority. I don't know what DBD YOU play where Boons aren't being run by anyone, but I suspect the rest of us aren't playing the same game (unless SBMM is constantly giving you brand-new teammates who don't own the Mikaela DLC and don't have access to her perks).
Once the change goes through -- which I don't think will affect the usage of COH -- I'll be interested, for my own curiosity, to see how that affects the numbers I'm compiling. I suspect it won't, but that will have to wait and see.
BTW, the NOED numbers, for all of the complaining (and for a perk who someone referred to as "meta" in this thread -- it's only "meta" in tournament play). In those same 180 matches, NOED was in play 24 times, or slightly over 13%. In those matches where NOED was being run, only in 8 of those -- 1/3 of the matches where NOED was being used, and only slightly over 4% of the total matches accounted for -- did the killer end up getting a 3K or better (and in at least a few of those, the 3K or 4K happened before NOED was triggered). My math clearly suggests which of the two perks -- NOED or COH -- is potentially more problematic, just by usage alone.
And since you mentioned it, I saw Ruin in 36 of those matches (20%). I would have thought it was higher, but the Boon meta and the terrible spawn locations on almost every map has likely led to killers dropping it for Corrupt (which I DIDN'T keep track of, but probably should) or a perk like Deadlock, which both provide more reliable results. (I also didn't keep track of Tinkerer, but I would have if it had either been game-breaking in my matches or incredibly prevalent, neither of which was the case -- some killers ran it, but nowhere near the number that something like COH is seen in).
FWIW, my escape rate over those 180 matches is at 101/180, or slightly over 56% (not that it should mean anything, other than to give more context as to what results I had over that span). I consider myself average, at best, at survivor, so take that as it is. And as a disclaimer, my experiences are obviously just one person's, and not indicative of every player's. It is clear, however, you and I don't play in the same DBD universe.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761359#Comment_2761359
Because killer is so much easier. Killer shouldn't necessarily be OP at any level.
This overall statistic hides how much killers win when experienced with meta perks. There is a lot of new killers playing being matched with experienced SWFs causing the kill stats to be low.
I hate to break this obvious news to you, but that's a two-way street -- and indicative of SBMM not functioning properly and prioritizing queue times over "fair" matches.
Over 5 hours or so of killer tonight, and I had some sweaty SWF's -- but it seemed like I had more than a few "potato" survivors I went against. Survivors who didn't know not to run along the outside wall type of new, and survivors who shouldn't be in a lobby with me and the hours I have in the game (I'm no Otz, but I'm at least capable). The 4K's I'm getting -- and presumably other people get -- in matches like that -- "Experienced killer trounces 4 survivors who have less than 100 hours in the game combined" -- are the counterbalance to the "New killer gets trounced by the sweaty SWF". There's likely as much of one type of match as the other, evening those "stats" out.
Without the devs further elaborating, as always, people will pull what they want to hear from those stats, which are as usual, given without any context. I will say that the only consistent thing I saw tonight wasn't the quality of my opponents -- it was, as usual, immediate queues as killer from 4:30-5 PM to just about 30 minutes ago -- and that would have remained constant for at least another few hours if I hadn't stopped for the night.
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I'm a creature of habit (and the meta), so there's not a lot of variety in my builds.
Trapper -- Corrupt, STBFL, Sloppy, and PGTW
Wraith -- Corrupt, PGTW, Make Your Choice, and BBQ (if it's working well, there's a TON of one-hit downs with MYC and constant hooking and popping of gens)
Nurse -- Corrupt, Shadowborn, PGTW, BBQ,
Billy -- I don't really play Billy, except for the occasional daily, and I don't have anywhere near all of the perks on him
Myers -- Corrupt or Ruin, Pain Resonance, Monitor & Abuse, and a revolving 4th perk (Sloppy, Infectious Fright, BBQ, etc.) depending on my mood. If it's Tombstone time, then PR and the 4th slot are replaced with Brutal Strength and Play With Your Food.
Hag -- Again, someone I play rarely. I tend to run Corrupt, Monitor, PGTW, and a random 4th
Doctor -- This build is the one that varies the most. I've run the Starstruck/Agitation build to great success before (with double Calm add-ons), I've run Ruin/Undying with STBFL and BBQ (or Sloppy), I've run Corrupt/Pain Resonance with the latter two, and sometimes for fun, we'll go all in on Skill Check Doctor (Huntress Lullaby, Undying, Unnerving Presence). Assuming Dead Man's Switch makes it out of the PTB unscathed, it's going to find a home in a LOT of my Doctor builds.
Huntress -- Corrupt, BBQ, Pain Resonance, and Hex: Blood Favor. Occasionally, I've run Iron Maiden on her, and when I'm feeling like a masochist, I'll run Ruin and just play a perk down after 20 seconds, lol.
Bubba -- I NEVER play him, except for the occasional daily. My choice of perks on him are incredibly limited.
Freddy -- I USED to run a dreaded Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer/BBQ build on him. Waiting on Dead Man's Switch to go live so I can play DMS, Pain Resonance, Deadlock, and a 4th perk. Should be fun.
Pig -- My "main". I used to have a Ruin/Undying slowdown build, but again -- Boons + atrocious totem spawns changed all of that. I'm currently using a Corrupt, Pain Resonance, Brutal Strength, and Hex: Plaything build on her to great success. Plaything is a VERY underrated perk (I get so many unexpected downs from people with traps on their heads running right into me when they're Oblivious). I've got the Blindness add-on and the Exhausted with a RBT on add-on currently, though I'll switch those around depending on mood.
Clown -- Boring build on a killer I rarely play. Ruin, PGTW, Sloppy, BBQ
Spirit -- Again, I don't play her often, but I like a heavy totem build with her. Ruin, Undying, Devour Hope, and BBQ. They usually get one or two totems, but rarely all of them -- and when it's Devour that's left, games snowball VERY quickly.
Legion -- Another killer with limited perks I don't play often. I think I'm running Ruin to go with Sloppy, Thana, and Hex: Blood Favor, but honestly, I need to put some BP into them at this point.
Plague -- Corrupt, Pain Resonance, Thana, and BBQ. The biggest thing for her for me is the Seal add-on that lengthens infection time on objects. I've had a LOT of success with her lately, especially in the Boon meta.
Ghostface -- Corrupt, Sloppy, Pain Resonance, and Nurse's Calling. I used to play a lot of GF, but not as much anymore.
Demogorgon -- Corrupt, Pain Resonance, STBFL, and BBQ. Barb's Glasses and Black Heart are almost like extra perks.
Oni -- Just starting to play him, so I barely have any perks on him currently.
Deathslinger -- Ruin, Pain Resonance, STBFL, and BBQ. Will sometimes run Corrupt in place of Ruin.
Pyramid Head -- Ruin, Pain Resonance, BBQ, and I'm All Ears. Again, Corrupt will replace Ruin more often than not now.
Blight/Twins/Trickster -- Still learning these killers and/or have very few perks on them
Nemesis -- Ruin, STBFL, Pain Resonance and BBQ.
Pinhead -- Corrupt, Pain Resonance, Hoarder, and BBQ.
Artist -- Still playing around with what might be best on her. Have BBQ for the BP right now, Plaything + Pentimento, and Pain Resonance. Dead Man's Switch could be part of a redone build at some point.
In short, the pace of most games dictates (for me, at least) that Corrupt or Ruin is almost a necessity (though I've slowly yanked Ruin builds one-by-one from my killers). Pain Resonance has become an MVP perk for me and is arguably one of the best killer perks released in forever. The builds I have BBQ still on, many would be replaced by something else if not for the insane grind of the Bloodweb. There's not a ton of variety above, except for certain killers where certain perks fit their playstyle perfectly (M&A on Myers, STBFL on Demo, etc,). I will be using Dead Man's Switch on some of these builds in the future, and I'd like to work Plaything into more builds as well -- the latter is so much fun and surprisingly effective.
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As a Pig player, I'm excited for the new Rift. As other people have pointed out, it's much easier to get through all of the levels, even if you don't finish all of the challenges, simply by playing a decent bit. I've finished the last couple of Rifts with a lot of time to spare -- the grind was definitely lessened on them.
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@KajdanKi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2760485#Comment_2760485
I havent seen yet this addon in action...
I just tried out the Video Tape/Rules Set No 2 combo on stream a couple of days ago. I used the RPD offering (box spawns are going to be much harder to get to, if people even know where they spawn on that map) and Lethal Pursuer (along with Plaything, Pain Resonance, and Corrupt -- the other three perks that are part of my current Pig build).
Lethal got me into chase with someone almost instantly, and I got a down and hook. 2nd and 3rd hooks shortly afterwards. Someone got their trap off, and they -- and someone WITH a trap -- popped a gen, and I had three survivors with active traps going. The match was over with a 4K in right around 7 minutes or so. 2 survivors died to the traps -- when the 2nd one died, I had one survivor on hook and had just downed a survivor who had gotten their trap off and hooked them for the 1st time, so it was literally "Game Over".
It was ugly for the survivors -- pressure from the traps, the map is unfavorable, early pressure from Lethal getting me a quick down, and then Plaything to cause even more havoc. That first gen was the only one that got done. As I said afterwards, the combo is deadly in the right circumstances -- granted, on a different, wide-open map and against a SWF that wouldn't pop a gen so early, it's going to lose its effectiveness, but against a team that isn't as well-coordinated, it can be very nasty to go against. Again, though -- the map offering was key (in Otz's recent video where he used the "sweatiest" builds on each killer, he used this combo and played a Midwich offering with the same thought process, I imagine).
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I played a round the other day as Nurse and ended up on the Eyrie of Crows map. There was a Laurie running Object, and when I blinked to her, she walked up to a hook and pointed at it, then stood doing nothing. Later in the match, she started spam vaulting pallets, and jumping in front of another survivor I was chasing, not to take aggro, but sandbagging them. Eventually, I hooked and killed them to give them their wish (I ended up giving last survivor hatch, since I felt bad they got stuck with this teammate).
I couldn't figure out if they were: A -- tanking their MMR on purpose, B -- didn't want to be on the new map for some reason, C -- didn't want to go up against a Nurse (spoilers: I'm a baby Nurse, lol), or D -- all of the above.
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Let's be honest with ourselves -- when are the devs NOT looking to find ways to nerf our poor Piggie? 😥
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Don't do against the Twins or a Deathslinger, lol.
https://youtu.be/JsZSK8nGs6w
https://youtu.be/RLagNPUiXro