Brokenbones
Brokenbones
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366243#Comment_3366243
Well I dont use those perks so I would not know. Whats does that combo give?
Basically makes gens regress super fast the moment they are kicked
And you can't just gen tap to counter it because the Overcharge skillcheck is there, adding more risk for the survivor
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Strong Disagree, it's not just the perks.
I've seen Skull Merchants with no gen perks hold a 3 gen for quite a long time. The perks just make it even easier
There's a few reasons why:
- Her power heavily rewards you for using drones near objectives - normally this isn't an issue because she has 4 drones to protect 7 generators and survivors can disable the drones while she's off elsewhere but in a 3 gen that never happens
- Her power has like 3/4 different types of tracking and in a 3 gen scenario that almost guarantees she knows where everyone is. You ignore the drone to try and push the gen, she knows where you are. You remove the drone to counterplay her power, she knows where you are then comes and puts the drone back up instantly.
- The main "counterplay" to 3 genning aside from not getting 3 genned in the first place is being healthy, taking a hit and zooming to the opposite end of the map, getting healed and then keeping the pressure going. Her power negates this if you ignore it
- A lot of maps have built in 3 gen scenarios from minute 1. Examples: Family Residence, Haddonfield, Resting Place; these maps due to their layout and gen spawn encourage 3 genning from the start of the match and Skull Merchant can do that extremely easily
That's my perspective at least, having watched the playstyle in action from both sides
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So I just wanna give my take on the situation
Some scream perks like Face the Darkness and Infectious Fright caused survivors to scream but also revealed their location with a bubble - The screams were, as the patch notes put it "3-D" screams that fell off at a certain distance - however some perks such as Make your Choice, Dragons, Iron Maiden etc simply made the survivor scream with a "2-D" audio which meant you could always hear it no matter where you were
This is what they mean by "consistancy" - they want all screams to work the same. It does weaken Make your choice and Dragon's grip quite significantly however. Hopefully they make these perks reveal auras or something as compensation.
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Don't enjoy the power, really.
Don't enjoy the visual design of any of the characters, doesn't resonate with me nor does it interest me from any kind of 'cool' factor.
I think all of the perks are uninspired and uninteresting apart from maybe Blood rush.
The new maps look pretty cool, good change.
Shards only or not at all is the plan for me.
Changes to Eruption/AMN pretty nice, as are improved bots in customs
That's just my honest take on the whole situation
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So if I post a compilation of me countering DH, does that automatically make my opinion valid
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Said elsewhere, say it here
If the survivor is "bad", they will not land a DH basically ever.
If good players can mess up their DHs, then bad players probably can't even MISS a DH let alone get one off.
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I think T3 having some kind of boost to break actions, pickup and so on would be so nice. He already gets so much value from perks like brutal strength, bamboozle etc
I also think they should remove the stalking at a distance penalty for tier 1, make it like ghostface where there's no penalty for stalking at a distance in T1.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361029#Comment_3361029
I was completely joking.. 😂
But since we’re here… why iri tag? The amount of skill / bump knowledge / map knowledge that goes into getting value out of iri tag is substantial. You will rarely see a blight running iri tag. Not even some of the good blight mains can get value out of it.
Was a typo
I meant the other iri addon, the one that lets blight insta break pallets/applies hindered.
Iri tag is the instadown addon that literally i've seen 1 person use and that's lilithomen going for speedruns. Nobody and I mean nobody uses that addon
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@HugTechLover said:
Hopefully blight, some of his addons needs a buff so he’s more viable.
Hey as long as they completely gut alch ring and compound 21 or whatever it's called I'm down
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@buffsadako said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360964#Comment_3360964
Really? Damn I thought you could DH in deep wound. My bad, I swear I thought you could. I suppose DS + DH would be better, or SB + OTR.
The order has to be
1) Be unhooked
2) Tank OTR hit to be deep wounded, then go down.
3) DS the killer (Which removes deep wound)
4) Continue the chase and be able to use DH
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361013#Comment_3361013
You're absolutely right. I think a lot of people(me at least) find it vastly unappealing and wish so much of her power weren't wrapped up in it.
I heavily dislike the playstyle because, much like stuff like genlock knight, hostage doc, bleedout starts and so on - it just drags matches on for so long to the point of tedium.
The playstyle even punishes you for trying to play safe by constantly giving you stacks of condemn for healing people on the ground/injured which is ridiculous if you ask me.
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@Mooks said:
As others have stated, you don’t suck. But Plague isn’t OP at all, though definitely stronger against soloq than coordinated swf.
i think it’s baffling though that people still think cleansing is taboo at all? Like, it depends heavily on the perks, addons, state of the match and so many circumstances. It’s definitely not always best practice to not cleanse…
From my experience the best time to cleanse is either
A) Plague is camping and you need a healthy person to save/trade (Most common one)
B) The last generator just got done and you're not close to a gate (Probably the one most people know about)
C) As a method of damage controlling for your teammates cleansing - overcleansing to reset all fountains turns multiple uses of red vomit into just one
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Any buff to Sadako should also address the Elephant in the room (or rather the Elephant on the floor) that is the condemn slugging playstyle
IMO at least.
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@VoidOfMe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359064#Comment_3359064
It's not what they said in the perks overhaul patch notes and live stream:
"On the survivor side, there is a clear preference for perks that grant second chance. BT, DS, DH, and perks of that nature help a survivor avoid certain death [...] A benefit of these second chance perks is how they help prevent UNFUN situations, namely being camped or tunneled out of the game (repeatedly being targeted after being unhooked). In order to incentivize a meaningful change to the meta, it was clear that we needed to address these controversial tactics. Second chance perks should be nice to have, not essential to ensure ENJOYABLE GAMEPLAY.
[...]
With these base changes, we hope survivors can switch up their perk load-outs without fear that camping and tunneling will cut their next match short."
Yes, they addressed it and called it unfun and said they would try and mitigate that, they gave a whole lot of buffs to the killer and survivors in this patch to incentivize the killers to avoid camping and tunneling, cause they said they know it isn't fun, but it just didn't work out.
Oh yeah I wasn't saying the devs have done nothing to help with camping/tunnelling
I'm more so saying that they won't really change the "core" of the issue because to them it's not an issue, if that makes sense. They've always said they want to allow killers to camp and tunnel because they consider it part of the gameplay experience
That doesn't mean they won't add things like perks to help mitigate it, it's just they won't ever yk directly do something about it like many people ask for.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360988#Comment_3360988
In some ways yes, in others no.
Shelter woods in 2016 was more fun then than Shelter woods is now in 2023. There is a reason that map had a 76% kill rate. It was hide or die and was the only map with no infinite loops (after the first month when they closed one shack window).
Do you not think it's more likely that after playing the game for so long you're just bored of it
The only reason DBD survived with all of the massive glaring flaws it had back then was because people hadn't fully figured them out. By the time the game had gained a decent following, people had figured out how to do all that and it was common place for people who weren't brand new
As much criticism as I give the developers, at least now they understand that stuff like looping is a core part of the experience now and they balance around it; for better or worse.
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I know a lot of people say Twins but it's entirely possible changes to them were scrapped
The person who said they were being looked at left BHVR (Patrick)
I think Artist might get a change or two. Addon pass for Myers/Freddy/Hag
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360970#Comment_3360970
Shelter woods in 2016 vs shelter woods in 2023 says otherwise.
If you want to make it worse we can both play Billy.
It is objective fact that the Killer experience is better now then it was many years ago though
Like there's no disputing it, it's a fact.
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@hiken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359064#Comment_3359064
this is not right because if it was right devs would never had implemented Decisive in 2016 when the game just came out, and many other perks that helps with tunneling even if old ds was dumb but remained till 2018 like that.
Perks do not fix core game design issues
BHVR considers tunnelling a valid part of the game, instead of changing that - they instead provide perks to help deal with it. DS was also a perk you had to fork out money for. It's not like DS was a free perk anyone could get
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360373#Comment_3360373
I think people will naturally have to branch out when eruption gets nerfed and holding a three gen is far less strong. I play chase knight to moderate success. You could add some regression to my build and get good results if you wanted. People will figure this out.
I just love knight how he is. Cycling guards, having a ghost friend do stuff while I do other things is cool as hell. I'm scared he'll get gutted or his best addons will get nerfed like toy sword because he basically doesn't work without them because of the complaining. It makes me defensive.
That's totally understandable and I'm glad to hear you enjoy playing Knight the way he is. I know some people (like myself) don't but it's a difference of tastes, not objective fact you know
I will say I despise people who play Knight with saloon offerings and full gen builds though. Not trying to pass blame but after someone semi-popular made a video showcasing it - I see it from time to time like when people started doing the AFK pig thing.
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I know I picked this option but I don't think you suck!
I just think she's one of the few actual 1 v 4 killers in the game who has passive pressure on a whole team at once. A lot of survivors can't be completely comfortable in chase while staying injured but the only alternative is cleansing which is such a heavy risk vs reward scenario favouring the killer it is almost always the worst idea
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Maybe this is what the unknown error was this whole time.................
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360355#Comment_3360355
Sorry. I'm being irrational. The constant knight complaining just makes me annoyed. Same thing when people complain about legion.
The frequent idea is to punish him drawing short lines. If you do that then it just shores up three genning as his only play style because he can't pincer with his guards.
The other idea is to heavily incentivize drawing long lines and cutting survivors off. Which is just spirit with extra steps and less reliability whether or not you get a down because you're relying on DBD pathing to do it.
Like, none of this stuff works. I'm tired of seeing it over and over again. Knight is fine. His niche is long chases with very likely hits. This puts him into B-tier. That's his identity. It's no different than doctor shocking or artist using her birds for ten different things or clown making your vision blurry.
Trust me it's not my goal to complain about Knight, I'd be happy to just file him in the "killers people hate" category and leave it at that but I feel like it's worth discussing ideas, even just for the sake of it.
I also agree, I don't know how you could feasibly change his core power outside of number tweaks or a full on rework (Which won't happen because he just came out).
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@BlueHorkew said:
I like most of these ideas, they feel like reasonable changes to give him some amount of counter play and punish a bad player.
He probably would need also some buffs in other areas, but any suggestions and ideas to increase interactive elements of the game are great.
I appreciate it
And yes, I do agree. I'll amend the OP to include something that mentions this
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360086#Comment_3360086
Idk.
It's just surprising to me that people think Killer isn't the best it's ever been.
A certain youtuber will post a match of a killer losing terribly on YT with the clickbait title "BEST KILLER HAS EVER BEEN" and act like it proves a point
^ That is an actual thing btw, obviously can't name names but look it up if you're curious.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360341#Comment_3360341
Yes, I read the title. I never said you wanted all of them. My point is about even one of them.
"Nowhere in this thread have I stated Knight needs flat nerfs, the topic of the thread is what changes could be made to make Knight more enjoyable for survivors so that is the content of the thread"
Yes I know what the title of the thread is and I know how you stated what you were trying to do, but however you butter it up and dress it up, at the end of the days these are in fact nerfs, regardless of your intentions.
"Side note, I do think that nerfs should come with some buffs - I'm just not all that enthusiastic about Knight's kit from a Killer POV so I don't know what I would change to make him more fun for Killer."
Saying this in your title would've saved a lot of peoples posts as that isn't what the post come across as. Something as simple as "I do think he needs some buffs in his healthier ways alongside this to compensate but I just don't know what if any of you have some good ideas." would've gone a long way and displays a very different message.
I appreciate the respectful response.
At the end of the day, people will take posts like this whatever way they want. I did my best to make it clear that these are just ideas. I even said feel free to critique them all you want - that's why i made the thread in the first place.
The DBD community is full of people who just project at each other and no actual discussion gets done and then they wonder why the devs don't listen to them. Thankfully, though this conversation isn't one of those.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360341#Comment_3360341
There's nothing you can do to him that doesn't make him Bad Spirit or make him only good at protecting a 3 gen. Just let it lie.
Sounds like defeatism to me, it's worth discussing.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360323#Comment_3360323
It's not spammable. If you avoid a guard or if the guard messes up with line of sight blockers then they're out of a guard for the duration of their patrol. God help you if you think jailer is gonna detect someone and he doesn't for whatever reason and you have to chase the survivor without a power at all.
You just want hard nerfs for knight, a B-tier killer at best. You don't like playing against him. Fine, whatever. I don't like playing against about a dozen things but I'm not trying to get them gutted.
You're projecting intentions onto me. I don't think Knight is particularly that strong or threatening personally.
I just think his power is unengaging and kinda boring, I also don't think they should ignore the issue of genlock knight (If you don't know what that is let me know I will elaborate) which is what some of the changes I mentioned are specifically designed to counteract
Also I disagree, I think his power is pretty spammable overall but if you don't think so that is totally fine.
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It's a bug, albeit one that can be exploited
Both roles can get up on it, so anyone who knows it's not really a problem but newer players likely won't know so it's a bit of a grey area
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The whole gimmick with PH's cages was that no perks involving hooks triggered off them
That goes for both Surv (Off the Record, DS and so on) and Killer (Pop, Pain res etcetc)
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@Blueberry said:
So where's the compensatory buffs to make him better in the healthier ways?
This is all just making a killer who's already bad, even worse.
Please read the title of this thread as well as this part here
(Also worth noting I don't think any/all of these ideas should be added at once):
Nowhere in this thread have I stated Knight needs flat nerfs, the topic of the thread is what changes could be made to make Knight more enjoyable for survivors so that is the content of the thread
Side note, I do think that nerfs should come with some buffs - I'm just not all that enthusiastic about Knight's kit from a Killer POV so I don't know what I would change to make him more fun for Killer.
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@Emeal said:
Why DOES a Killer have to be fun to play against for Survivors?
"Sorry, you cant murder me right now, cause I'm not having fun while being chased."
I fear I have heard people in this Community use the word fun so much I don't know what it actually means anymore.
Like I stated in the OP, a Killer's strength doesn't equal how engaging or "fun" they are to go against. It's a bit more complicated then someone losing and going "i hate this killer its bad bleh"
I'll try to answer your question to the best of my abilities though.
One could simply chalk it down to taste and call it that. Some people like vsing Knight, some don't whatever. No big deal right? The issue comes in why people don't find a certain character enjoyable or engaging in the first place.
Ideally you want to strive to have both sides enjoying the content in the game, right? I don't think that's an unfair expectation and again this thread is NOT "Knight boring Knight bad" it's "People have issues with this Killer, what could be changed to fix it?". I wanted to have a constructive conversation about it, same reason I made that thread about DH not too long ago.
I don't know how accurate this is but from my exposure to conversations and my experiences since his release, Knight's not exactly considered the pinnacle of fun and engaging design, especially when compared to the Killer who came before him.
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@RainehDaze said:
Literally all of these boil down to "make the character feel worse to control", and all changes like that should be avoided. Except maybe the Carnifex's banner spawn being weird.
Like, think about it: every change proposed is some variation of "spend more time as an M1 Killer fighting your own power to get anything done, and making it easier to deny you the ability to do anything except be a generic 4.6 killer."
And finally: the anti-hook change isn't needed. 1) those restrictions tend to be garbage functionality at the best of times, especially on 2 floor maps, 2) the power already has a built-in anti-hook mechanic. All you do is deny the ability to strategically place a guard to be triggered by a loud noise notification if the save happens right as he goes off to do something. Y'know, one of the cleverer uses of it.
Is it not wrong to say his power feels extremely forgiving right now, though?. I'm not saying he should be locked out of his power 24/7 but I think the spamability of it is a little excessive. He can even cancel patrols now, which isn't a change I disliked being added don't get me wrong.
I get your point about "spending time as a 4.6" but I'm gonna be honest with you, Knight doesn't down you with his power basically ever. He downs you when he eventually puts you in a spot where you either take an m1 from him or you take a hit from a guard and then get m1'd anyway. This goes especially if he's using his power to pester survivors on generators and then chasing as a normal 4.6 anyway
I'll ask you for your take though, do you think his power is fine the way it is from a survivor POV?
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is it RPD or RCPD tho
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@wydyadoit said:
make the ai roamers the same as zombies that automatically roam and initiate chase when you're discovered. at line of sight and physical boundaries to the ai so that they have to follow normal killer chase rules and have to see the survivor same as ghostface and meyers have to see to stalk.
The issue is, BHVR has this thing where they make a power and for the most part they refuse to change it too much because of the people who enjoy it the way it is.
The same logic was applied to Legion when they got their buffs, someone - I believe it was Peanits said on behalf of the devs that they don't want to rework Killers with powers that people enjoy. There are people who enjoy the way Knight's power works right now
That's why most of the changes I suggested don't really change how the power works, they are either numbers changes or small additional mechanics that don't alter the core part of how his power functions.
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@Moz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359148#Comment_3359148
I'm not claiming it was less powerful. It was actually more powerful to tunnel back then because you don't have 5th perk borrowed time. Tunneling and camping just feels more required now. And that's for a whole array of reasons.
Oh yeah I'm not saying they are unrequired or unnecessary
I just think saying they are meta now when they have always been meta is the wrong way to look at it.
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@Moz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359053#Comment_3359053
Old Ruin era and ruin/undying era. It was far easier to 4k back then. I used to 4k almost effortlessly. Now I really need to sweat and even if I tunnel the end result is uncertain. There's been different era's where the balance of power was more killer-sided. That is no longer the case. The average survivor now has too much time invested and there's far too little 'shakeup' changes. IMO Killer is in the worst state it has ever been in.
Nah I disagree
Tunnelling was still just as powerful back then as it is now and there hasn't been a single era in which Killer players were satisfied with the state of the game. I'm not trying to be antagonistic when I say that, it's just the honest truth as I was around for both of the eras you mentioned
Granted survivors have never been satisfied either, it's not a killer exclusive issue.
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Stronger Early game usually wins out, that's why Corrupt intervention is still a must pick for so many people. A lot of people panic when the first few gens get done but the game isn't over by that point.
Personally I play with the logic of plan A plan B, Plan B usually being no way out or something to that effect.
It depends on the Killer though, some killers excel in sacrificing good early game for a better late game. Myers/Trapper/Oni are killers who can turn a seeming loss into a decisive victory with their powers.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
there are many and very imaginative ideas how to solve the tunnel problem. a quick look at the feedback forum is enough.
None of this is implemented at all, no, they even keep a low profile and keep quiet about the problem.
It stands to reason that if tunnelling was a problem in the devs eyes, it would've been rectified years ago
but it hasn't, so it's not a problem. (To the devs)
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If the survivor is playing bad, they won't be able to land a successful Dead Hard
change my mind
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It always was the meta?
When has it never not been
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358696#Comment_3358696
He said "You shouldn't be in a position where you MUST swing at a pallet that often." That's what I was responding to.
You can't avoid it and it's pointless advice.
I do not understand where and why you are trying to push your conversations about deadzones, if we are literally talking about a hit under the pallet.
Okay that makes more sense, I was confused about what your point was
I don't think anyone here would argue that DH doesn't make swinging into pallets a losing scenario for killers a lot of the time. Personally I just swing into pallets if I know the person I'm chasing doesn't have DH. I can get rid of the pallets and catch them afterward usually.
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@Xendritch said:
I refuse to play Clown without Brutal Strength it's kind of a problem.
Clown without STBFL is pain as well
It's one of those perks I just can't play him without
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358690#Comment_3358690
Cool story, bro, how does this relate to my comment?
My guy (or gal, I won't assume), Pulsar literally said
"try to herd people toward areas that have had their resources used"
then your response is "uhh so like you can teleport them???"
What was your point, exactly?
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358666#Comment_3358666
Bruh...
Do you have the ability to teleport a survivor to a specific location in the tile during a chase or what? What else? Overtake the survivors so that they don't reach the pallet?
If 16k of your comments are just as meaningless and useless, well, then I don't envy your conversationals.
Creating deadzones near generators is killer 101
If you chase a survivor who's giving you a tour of the whole map and you simply can't catch them, it might be time to cut your losses and go for someone else.
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Agitation on 80% of my killers
It is basically never a bad pick.
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Ghostface was 100% the most broken one they've ever done, his power legit did not work at all
Twins is probably the second worst considering how riddled with bugs it was (many that weren't fixed when it went live)
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It's really hard to say how you could do better in the chases you described without being able to see how the chases went down, what pallets they used DH on and so on
My playstyle around a lot of pallets is to bait/force the drop and then do 50/50s. A survivor locked in animation can't DH or if they lose the 50/50 all they can do is DH in place which can easily be waited out.
Obviously you can't do this for the safer, stronger pallets but if a survivor uses DH to ensure they get those pallets to drop, best thing you can do is just break them.
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Trapper
- Majority of maps make his traps super visible these days
- His power can not only be called out, it can be straight up disabled. Avoiding tall grass and looking down will almost guarantee you never step in a trap.
- Some maps, his "power" is spread out in far corners meaning you will struggle to fully utilize your power. Purple bag mitigates this but adds the downside of not being able to move your traps, which might not seem like a big deal but unless you run iri stone it is a problem you will have to deal with
- Basic M1 killer with no potential in chase without set up. All he can really do is lock down a tile or fake it to force a survivor to leave. If he has no trap on hand in chase and he's in an area with no set up, he just has to play it normally which is a problem for a lot of players/certain maps
- Can become reliant on the basement, which promotes playstyles many people are not fond of
- No form of mobility at all, can control a 3 gen pretty decently but that's it
- Has the lowest killrate in the latest stats we were given (Which was post 6.1.0). Not 100% the dealbreaker but it certainly shows him being weak isn't purely down to skill like it is with killers like Nurse where they seem weak due to inexperience rather then simply just having weak powers
That being said, Trapper is not unplayable - just compared to the rest of the roster I think he is the weakest overall. Especially if you factor in addons.
Myers is pretty weak addonless, but then he has addons that straight up win him the game when he gets tier 3 once.
Pig imo has only gotten stronger despite what the meme about her would suggest, 90s gens makes her stalling capability more of a threat and jigsaw boxes having fixed RNG means overall survivors will spend more time searching then they did previously. She also still has some addons that give so much value at stalling games out compared to Trapper.
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@chimera3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357061#Comment_3357061
Why are you raging at me? Was what I said really that offensive? it's odd the things people on here get so mad at. Yes I pointed out logically fallacies. You getting angry at that is not normal. I'd suggest taking a break off here or reaching out to someone around you.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357062#Comment_3357062
Alright so you concede that choosing a killer by itself is not enough to warrant deserving to lose. That's all. I do disagree with your new position but I don't have the time nor energy nor sheer will power it would take to go on because I'd probably have a stroke.
I believe what you just did in the socrates philosophical fallacy compendium is known as 'projection'. I do like how it's the only part of my post you fixated on though, that's a classic.
Anyway we were talking about Trapper, not Sadako. Buddy keep up.
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@chimera3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357039#Comment_3357039
What is it with the straw mans? I didn't mention perks at any point? I said nothing about running or not running perks...? Point out where I mentioned anything about perks. But anyways since you wanted to deflect what I said, I'm gonna say this again and will ad nauseam as needed. Choosing to play a killer doesn't mean you deserve to lose. It's an absurd and ludicrous position to have. But by all means, continue to show everyone how wrong I am, lol. But do it without using a straw man please, if your gonna use one, please no more replies
ok bro
first of all @Pulsar did NOT say "if u pick trapper u deserve to lose" he originally said
"Uh....yeah, if you play a weak Killer into their worst-case scenario and refuse to use optimal tactics, you should lose. You are choosing to play Trapper. You are choosing not to tunnel. You are choosing not to camp."
Key word is SHOULD. The word "deserve" was only brought up when someone asked him "so they deserve to lose if they pick trapper" and his response was "If you take a weak Killer, use off-meta perks, refuse to use optimal strategies and you put that Killer against an optimal 4-man? Yes, you deserve to lose that game."
So it was brought up. Not sure if you missed it or what but yeah.
By the way pointing out the epic socrates fallacies doesn't make your point any more valid nor does it make you sound smart, just saying. I know that's probably an ad homer simpson but frankly I do not care.